HOMEBREW Digest #853 Tue 31 March 1992

Digest #852 Digest #854

		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

  Orlando area Brew Pubs (Greg_Habel)
  How do I get the cat to meow? (WAYNE HINES)
  fish (Sterling Udell)
  re: blended beers (mcnally)
  break (Russ Gelinas)
  Training Hops and Munich Bierstubes (Norm Hardy)
  crystal malt color and amount (semi-long) (Tony Babinec)
  Re: EASYMASH (korz)
  Dry Hops and Green Sludge (ZLPAJGN)
  hop supply in wisconsin (dave ballard)
  Chiller-less cooling , trub, hop heights (David Van Iderstine)
  Re: Chiller-less cooling (korz)
  Training Hops - Up Or Out ? (Richard Childers)
  using your yeast cake (mcnally)
  re: hop vines: vertical or horizontal? (Dick Dunn)
  Re:  Homebrew Digest #852 (March 30, 1992) (colin mccrossin)
  Re: EASYMASH (chilling) (korz)
  Chimay white & bottle weight (korz)
  Haze info from Micah Millspaw (Bob Jones)
  True Brew (trwagner)
  Sanitizing an immersion chiller (Brian Davis)
  re: John's Monster, brewing w/sugar (John Hartman)
  wort chiller, lager/ale (Jeff Frane)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 30 Mar 92 08:52:12 est From: Greg_Habel at DGC.ceo.dg.com Subject: Orlando area Brew Pubs I will be in the Orlando area from April 4th to the 14th. If anyone has any info on Brew Pubs or Micros in the area please let me know asap. Greg. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 92 09:16:11 EST From: WAYNE HINES <IWLH%SNYCENVM.bitnet at CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> Subject: How do I get the cat to meow? HELP! Can anyone help a disgruntled VM/CMS user I need to make another batch. Could someone help me by either sending me a copy of the cats meow 1 and/or 2, or telling me how I can get it myself. It would also be helpful to know how to access the archives. As I understand it our system is BITNET running under VM/CMS. Thanks for your help Wayno Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 92 09:29:06 EST From: sterling at glorfindel.umcs.maine.edu (Sterling Udell) Subject: fish QXN132 at URIACC.URI.EDU (Vickie) writes: > Relatively recently in the past, someone posted instructions on how to >build a wonderful gadget for brewing. I only got installment #2, and promptly >lost it. Could the person who posted the instructions/designed this wonder ple >ase send me the information? The gadget was set up tp run on natural gas when >heating and was up on legs with a spigot to make removing the contents easier. > It also required lots of welding... This reminds me of a couple of things that I was going to ask this august body :) when I got time, which I now seem to . . . While visiting my brother in Key West recently, we held a fish fry (with plenty of homebrew too, o'course). I had never done a large-scale outdoor fish fry before, but my brother pointed out that the deep fat frier setup would be _perfect_ for boiling wort. I immediately concurred. For those of you who haven't seen one of these beauties, it consists of a big metal tripod with a _large_ propane burner and a pot platform on top. I assume you'd want to use a regular brewpot instead of the frier on top, but it seemed like the unit itself would need no modification. It could also probably be easily modded to run off natural gas, but since the great wilderness of central Maine (and Key West, for that matter) uses propane for everything, I see no such need. For those of you who _have_ seen one of these beauties, has any of you ever tried one for boiling wort? I don't recall if I heard how much it cost, but it seems at least worth looking into. Any experience, or am I going to have to rush out and buy one of these myself? Purely in the name of research, of course. :) One other thing. While in Key West I saw a number of salt-water aquariums, and a common piece of equipment for them was a combination thermometer/hydrometer. Didn't measure in degrees Balling or potential alcohol %age, of course - just specific gravity - but that's good enough for me. The convenience of both hydrometer and thermometer in one handy package is quite enticing; this _is_ something I think I'll go out and buy as soon as I have a chance to scour the pet stores, but I'd like to ask the HBD again: has anyone used one before? String - -- Sterling Udell (sterling at gandalf.umcs.maine.edu, sterling at gandalf.bitnet) Big Dog Brewing Cooperative - Eastern Division "Carpe Pisces!" - David Smith Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 92 08:25:38 -0800 From: mcnally at wsl.dec.com Subject: re: blended beers In HBD 852, Conn Copas mentions a recipe for making a strong ale by blending barley wine and pale. Well, with about 30 bottles of a heavy barley wine that's refused to carbonate, I'm in an ideal position to try this out. I'll let you know. _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_- Mike McNally mcnally at wsl.dec.com Digital Equipment Corporation Western Software Lab Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1992 11:24:15 -0500 (EST) From: R_GELINAS at UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas) Subject: break Jack sez: > I understand but the longer it sits, the more time is has to settle out. My > thinking is that if it sits after chilling, it is subject to infection and > without mucking up the lid, the kettle can not be covered properly while the > chiller is inside. One obviously does not want to remove the chiller after > thewort is chilled. A couple of things. I *do* pull out my chiller after it's done its job. I then pitch the yeast, stir the wort into a vortex, and let settle for an hour or 2 before transferring to a carboy. > In my experience, somewhere well into the boil, stuff starts coagulating into > what looks like egg-drop soup. If this point is the "hot break", I accept > the definition but let's call the stuff something else. That's it. Unfortunately, like "trub", its a term that probably won't go away. > Similarly, the "cold break" should be some temperature at which this stuff > collects and drops to the bottom during chilling. Again, in my experience, > it is a very specific point AND much of the stuff clumps together and floats Actually it is a range of temperatures. I seem to remember a Zymurgy article that spelled out what precipitates out at what temperature. I don't really see why Hot/Cold break "stuff" is better than just Hot/Cold break. Discussions of break time deal only with the stuff produced at that time. There's little room for confusion. Now I've got a question for you. In your easymash setup, have you ever had any problems with the window screen drain/spigot setup getting clogged with hops/trub when you transfer off to the carboy? On a similar note, could someone who's using a hopback explain their setup/ procedure please? Russ Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 92 08:51:14 PST From: polstra!norm at uunet.UU.NET (Norm Hardy) Subject: Training Hops and Munich Bierstubes Where does one go to drink beer in Munich? Anywhere one wants.... Think of it as heaven, beer heaven, and take your sweet eternal time to explore the many different beers available on tap (vom fass). Hops: my 3 varieties are up, with the 2 Cascades being 2 feet high already. Last year I tried training the Hallertauers to go horizontally, sort of helping out every time they were ready for the next string. It took more time and care but the harvest was easier, although not much. The pros go vertical primarily because of space and the nature of the vines to head that way. A mechanized picker does the dirty work later. Obviously they can't worry about each and very pole. On my Cascades and Herzbruchers I use a trellis which is 9 feet off the ground. After making the climb up to the top, the vines meander over and through the cross-hatched twine. Harvest is easy as I just cut the twine until it all falls down. Finally, I have found that twine is easiest for the hops to cling to and climb up. The wood poles were too thick and caused some hop vines to get knocked off by wind or rain. Norm Hardy (in Seattle) Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 92 11:14:53 CST From: tony at spss.com (Tony Babinec) Subject: crystal malt color and amount (semi-long) This posting summarizes the recent thread on crystal malts and colors. Crystal malt is malt steeped and kilned in such a way that it becomes a dollop of sweetness and body to add to your brew. For the extract or grain brewer, crystal malt gives some body and luscious flavor to what might otherwise be a thin brew. In using crystal malt, color is also an issue. As shown in the AHA beer style guidelines, or in Fred Eckhardt's "Essentials of Beer Style," beer styles have acceptable color ranges. If you are making a beer "to style," you'll want to take the guidelines into account, and then use knowledge of the color property of malt to get your beer in the right ballpark. First, here is a table that attaches some useful descriptives to numeric color ratings: numeric description - ------- ----------- 0 - 2.5 yellow light 2.5 - 3.5 pale 3.5 - 5.5 deep straw/gold 5.5 - 8 amber light 8 - 10 medium 10 - 14 deep 14 - 18 dark brown/black 18+ black Source: appendix of George and Laurie Fix's "Vienna," although Fred Eckhardt has a similar table. Eckhardt's book also employs a second rating scale on a 1-10 range. Second, here is a table showing the color ratings and contributions of crystal malts: malt 1#/1g 1#/5g - ---- ----- ----- cara-pils 1.5 0.3 crystal 10L 10.0 2.0 crystal 20L 20.0 4.0 crystal 30L 30.0 6.0 crystal 40L 40.0 8.0 crystal 60L 60.0 12.0 crystal 80L 80.0 16.0 crystal 90L 90.0 18.0 crystal 120L 120.0 24.0 Notice that cara-pils malt is lumped in with the crystal malts. Think of cara-pils as adding those dextrins you want for sweetness and body while making only a minimal color contribution. This makes cara-pils malt a nice addition to the grain bill of any German-style lager, and especially the light-colored ones. See Noonan's "Brewing Lager Beer" or Miller's "Continental Pilsner" for some recipes. Notice also that the Lovibond rating is the color contribution of 1 pound of the crystal malt in 1 gallon of water. Dividing by 5, we get the color contribution of 1 pound of each malt in the typical 5 gallon batch. Thus, taken by itself, 1 pound of 120L crystal malt should approximately result in 5 gallons of wort of color 24, which would make the wort dark by the first table's indication. As for SG, depending on your extraction efficiency, you should get 4-5 points (1.004 to 1.005) of gravity per pound of malt. Crystal malts have different national origins. There are U.S., British, and German crystal malts available. Some of the best crystal malt includes Maris Otter crystal malt, as well as Ireks "light" German crystal malt and "dark" crystal malt. George Fix's recent HBD append showed that "light" is probably 10L and "dark" is probably 60L. Homebrewers should press their suppliers to provide crystal malt with Lovibond ratings. U.S. crystal malts from Briess Malting typically have a color rating. Use of inferior crystal malt, or too great a quantity of crystal malt, will result in "coarse" flavors in the beer. In practice, homebrewers have used British crystal malts in a German beer, and vice versa, as the proportion of crystal malt in the recipe is not very large. As for amounts, Terry Foster's pale ale recipes, which use pale ale malt as the base malt, use crystal malt additions in the 4 to 8 ounce range. George and Laurie Fix's basic Vienna recipe, which uses pilsner malt as the base malt, employs 6 ounces each of 10L, 60L, and 120L crystal malt to produce an amber beer. So, don't over-do the percentage of crystal malt in your recipes. Instead, make judicious use of darker crystals and other dark malts. Finally, George Fix's HBD posting also showed that the color contribution of color malt to your wort is contingent on water hardness. Other HBD postings have mentioned the wort-darkening effect of splashing hot wort. In an appendix to "Vienna," George and Laurie Fix make the point that the "color arithmetic" wherein homebrewers take into account grain volume and color rating to "predict" the expected color of the resulting wort is roughly additive for light-colored beers but not strictly additive for amber beers. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 92 11:40 CST From: korz at ihlpl.att.com Subject: Re: EASYMASH Three comments on EASYMASH: 1. The "screen-around-the-pipe" lauter tun is indeed simple, but I want to again point out that the advantage of a more elaborate system would be better extraction (drawing all the runoff from the center of the tun reduces the amount of sugar you extract from the grains at the sides of the tun). This is not a big deal for beginners, but you may want to mention the trade-offs that you make going with a simple system. It validates why your system is so much simpler -- some are sceptical when you offer "something for nothing." 2. You should point out that this is a single-step infusion mash and thus requires well-modified malt (Pale malt). Using less-modified malt (such as Lager malt) would require a protein rest. 3. "Strike" temperature, is not the temperature of the mash, rather, the temperature of the "hot liquor" (water) before mixing with the milled grains. If you correctly calculate the strike temperature (based upon the mass of the water you will use, mass of the grain you will use and the initial temperature you want your mast to be), upon mashing-in, your mash will be at the correct, pre-calculated, initial temperature and you won't have to add heat unless it is a very long rest or if your mash tun is uninsulated. I think what you meant was: "When the 'saccharification' temperature is reached, reduce the heat and stir occassionally..." Al. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 92 11:51 CST From: ZLPAJGN%LUCCPUA.bitnet at UICVM.UIC.EDU Subject: Dry Hops and Green Sludge Dear Brewers, After freeing up my carboy from the monstrocity I was brewing (BTW, thanks for the advise, all!), I decided to try something a bit more challenging than simple extract-syrup brewing, and brewed up my first lager, following the recipe (as closely as possible, this time :-) ) in Papezian for "Propensity Lager." Of course this was a learning experience in every respect, and I'm sure this particular experience isn't over yet. And, just as one discovery spurrs twenty more questions (at least that's what they're teaching at the graduate level these days), this particular learning process has generated quite a few questions... First of all, I used crystal malt; I cracked it, then added it to the boil-pot (w/ 1.5 gal. water) and strained just after the boil began. But, instead of fishing around in the boiling brew with my strainer, I simply poured it through a strainer into a temporary, second (aluminum) pot, and then back into the original pot. I then added the 5 lbs of dry light maly extract all at once, and it all seemed to "clump" together, mostly dissolving but some marble-sized beads remaining and later strained out. I also added the Saaz hop pellets straight into the boil. This I also did with the finishing and flavoring hops. The only sugar called for was 2.5 lbs of clover honey. I let this calderon boil moderately (not vigorously) for 45 min, as per the recipe, then cooled it - without straining the wort yet - by setting the pot in a tub of cold water for about an hour or so. When it was cool enough, I strained out as much on the hops as I could (Pap.'s recipe calls for straining or sparging the hops straight after the boil :-? ), and that proved to be a long and tedious process. I had thought, given the nature of pellet- ized hops, that I'd have to use a COFFEE strainer, but the kitchen strainer proved to be enough og a trial!! I had to pour a bit, spoon through the strainer to let the wort pass, spoon out the spent hops, then start again. The whole process took about half an hour!! When I finished, the wort in the fermenter looked like thick, milky caramel! I then topped off the fermenter with water to fill it to the neck. I pitched two packets of dry lager yeast (wort temp = approx. 65F) and fitted a blow-off hose to the top of the carboy, emptying into a pitcher filled with about an inch of water acting as a lock. Fermentation began vigorously within 24 hrs and is continuing still, though not so vigorously now. OK, now the questions: 1) The wort is STILL a milky-caramel in color! Is this normal? Will it clear eventually? If not, do I need to rack to a secondary? I'd like to keep it in a closed container, so, in the event of racking can I simply rack to a temporary (pail-like) container, clean out the carboy, and reuurn it? I'm not that comfortable with this idea. If I don't need to rack, what are the possibilities that the beer will clear as it lagers in the bottle? 2) The kreausen is rising, but not enough (yet?) to pass through the blow-off hose. Will it in time (it's been brewing sinse Sat.)? If not, will I have to scoop it off? There's still a green sludge (hops) at the top, and I'm concerned that, if the fermentation does continue to the point where my blow-off hose is actually useful, will this sludge clog the tubes? Again, I guess it boils down to a question of racking... Any directions? Not Worrying (a first, for me :-) ) John Return to table of contents
Date: 30 Mar 1992 13:11 EST From: tbird!dasher.cc.bellcore.com!dab at bellcore.bellcore.com (dave ballard) Subject: hop supply in wisconsin several people have asked me to post this, so here goes. this is the info from a postcard i received the other day... - ----------------------------------------------------------------- HOP RHIZOMES Available mid-April to late May: Hallertau, Tettnang, Fuggles, Willamettes, Bullions, Cascades $3.00/ea or 4 for $10 (postpaid) Growing instructions included. Dried hops available August-September. Write or call: Matucheski Farms N4628 Hwy H Antigo, WI 54409 (715)627-7167 - ------------------------------------------------------------------ i'm also following a lead on a hop supply place in new jersey. i'll post something when i get more info... -dab ========================================================================= dave ballard "Life may not be the party we hoped for, dab at dasher.cc.bellcore.com but while we're here we should dance." ========================================================================= Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 92 13:21:43 EST From: orgasm!davevi at uunet.UU.NET (David Van Iderstine) Subject: Chiller-less cooling , trub, hop heights >In HBD #852: >From: Dennis.Henderson at Eng.Sun.COM (Dennis Henderson) >Subject: Chiller-less cooling >After the boil (malt extract and seperate hops) I have ~2.5 gallons of >wort. I put the stainless steel kettle in the sink in the garage. >I fill the sink up to the wort level and add six ice trays of ice cubes. >I stir the ice water every five minutes. After 15 minutes I dump the >water and repeat. > >After less than 30 minutes the wort is down to 100 degress F. I combine >with 2.5 gallon of off-the-shelf "purified water" that has been in the >deep freeze for the brew session (~2 hours). The mixture is then >very close to 70 degrees F so I pitch. This sounds just fine to me. I wouldn't change a thing, unless you want to. This is what I also did for my first dozen batches or so. The primary reason I made an immersion wort chiller was that I was tired of buying bags of ice cubes, and the hassle of having to siphon out the sink periodically to keep it from overflowing. It's true the chiller does take another pot, or bucket, to sterilize in. I use a plastic foot basin. As with everything else, I use a couple oz.'s of Clorox per gallon to at least rinse with or immerse in, then a tap-water light rinse. I don't get overly concerned about sterilizing the copper. I even forget to some times. The big deal, as I understand it, is to reach the "cold break" as quickly as possible. Someone else could certainly give better technical details than I as to the particulars of this break; it affects final clarity. Anyway, quicker is better. However, I think your 30 minutes is fine. What concerns me is folks who leave it overnight to chill. I would clean the garage sink, though. Cold, unfermented wort is about the best bacteria food you could have there. The lids helps, but hey, how tough is it to splash some clorox around in the sink first? - --- Regarding the thread about secondary racking for non-lagers, I was taught this was important, if for no other reason, than to get the beer off the trub (as korz at ihlpl.att.com also mentioned). I was told to leave beer in the primary no less than 2-3 days, no more than 5-7. No less, so "bad" sediment has a chance to precipitate, no longer so it's not re-absorbed having precipitated. Let's not forget that most micros and all professionals take the trub off the bottom of their fermenters as it forms, so they can get away without racking from the primary. I've yet to see a glass carboy or plastic bucket up to the same trick. BTW, I always use a blow-off tube during primary, as I was taught the foam coming off was undesirable. - --- About hop heights: The guy at Freshops that I just spoke to after having purchased some Cascades rhizomes recommended a trellis height of 10' to 12', with sideways running strings. I asked about 6' height, and he said that was absolute minimum; 10'->12' was better, 18' was unneccessary. Training would be required though, as well as selective pruning. He indicated the vigorous side shoots would begin at 6' or so; Papazian in CJOHB recommends removing leaves below 6' to inhibit upward spread of lift wilt. Sounds like an overhead trellis canopy might be ideal; I can think of little nicer environment than a beer garden with canopy of flowering hops just overhead! Incidentally, Freshops dried hops prices are INCREDIBLE! - -- Dave Van Iderstine Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 92 13:21 CST From: korz at ihlpl.att.com Subject: Re: Chiller-less cooling Dennis writes: >2. Perhaps I should add the hot wort and cold water to the plastic >primary fermenter and pitch the next day when the mixture is down to >the correct temperature. Wouldn't this give more time for infection to >get into the beer before fermenting takes over. Yes. Not only that, but pouring hot wort (over 80F) will oxidize the wort -- at the least darkening the beer, at worst giving you sherry-like or cardboardy flavors. [On a related note, while brewing a Chimay-clone last weekend, my cousin and I were tasting 750ml bottles of "Red" and Grand Reserve. I felt that both (only 3 months old) had a sherry-like nose, whereas my cousin said they remind him of the "smell of a liquor store." He read from Jackson's pocket guide that the 750ml bottles age differently than the capped (330ml) bottles. I said "yes -- it's probably due to the porosity of the cork which causes some oxidation... sherry-like or wet-cardboard aromas." At this, he replied: "THAT'S IT! It smells like the damp cardboard boxes in some liquor stores!" I checked again, and identified the smell myself, but felt the sherry-like smell was dominant.] >3. An immersion chiller would take another large pot for sterilizing. >Or do folks pour the wort into the primary and boil the chiller in the >wort cook pot. Not necessarily. I simply use the boiling wort to sanitize my immersion chiller. Again, you want to avoid transfering hot wort -- any aeration will cause oxidation. Al. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 92 11:30:28 PST From: Richard Childers <rchilder at us.oracle.com> Subject: Training Hops - Up Or Out ? "Date: Fri, 27 Mar 92 14:14:50 PST From: rush at xanadu.llnl.gov (Alan Edwards) Subject: hop vines: vertical or horizontal? "David Van Iderstine mentioned in HBD #851 that hops should be trained sideways, and not up. This has raised a good question. It seems to be conventional wisdom that they should be trained straight up--about 20 feet up in fact. Maybe the big-time hop farmers only do this to save space and grow more hops per acre. Maybe they would indeed grow better if they were trained horizontally. Maybe it doesn't matter, as long as they get plenty of sun." The conventional wisdom - and this applies to tomatoes and other plants, also - is that a trellis guiding shoots laterally gives easier access to the resulting fruit, as well as increasing exposure to light on a per- flower basis, since you don't have lower fruits shadowed by those above. - -- richard ===== - -- richard childers rchilder at us.oracle.com 1 415 506 2411 oracle data center -- unix systems & network administration ... Minds are like parachutes ... they operate best when open. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 92 11:38:23 -0800 From: mcnally at wsl.dec.com Subject: using your yeast cake If, like me, you don't always have the time and energy to brew up a batch of wort just in time to pitch over a yeast cake from a previous batch, here's an idea I've been trying. Go to your local "natural foods" store (or Trader Joe's) and buy 5 gallons of unfiltered unpreserved apple juice. Chill at least a couple of the bottles, then pour it all over your yeast cake after racking off some just-finished beer. Add some honey dissolved in real hot (like just boiled) water and let it go. Your yeast will be ECSTATIC, and you'll end up with an acceptable hard cider ready for those whiners who show up and don't want to drink your homebrew; the cider will surprise them both with its taste and its sneaky strength. Just a thought! _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_- Mike McNally mcnally at wsl.dec.com Digital Equipment Corporation Western Software Lab Return to table of contents
Date: 30 Mar 92 12:38:21 MST (Mon) From: rcd at raven.eklektix.com (Dick Dunn) Subject: re: hop vines: vertical or horizontal? rush at xanadu.llnl.gov (Alan Edwards) writes: > David Van Iderstine mentioned in HBD #851 that hops should be trained > sideways, and not up. This has raised a good question. It seems to be > conventional wisdom that they should be trained straight up--about 20 > feet up in fact... Hmmm...I'd missed David's note or I certainly would have countered it. Hops want to grow UP. "Training" them really involves giving them some- thing to hold on to as they climb, since they're going to *try* very hard to grow upward. The commercial hops I've seen were trained along mostly-upward diagonals. > First, has anyone tried growing hops BOTH ways, and found one way produces > a higher yield? (Hmm, I thought not.)... I tried to train hops to go horizontally. We got into a big argument over it. It wasn't a matter of yield; it was a matter of the hops not being willing to go horizontal... Me: OK, gals, you're set up to climb these trellis-things here 'til you get to the deck. Then there's cord strung up to get you as far as the deck railing... Hops: Great! That will take care of us for a month, maybe a little more. Then what? Me: Well, then I've got more cord to take you horizontally alongside the deck rail. Hops: WHAT??? We don't do "horizontal" We won't take this lying down! Me: Why not?? Look, what am I supposed to do--set it up so you can climb all the way up to the roofline? Hops: You got it, buster. Oh, and you might want to figure out where we're going after we get to the roof. I had some of the vines headed mostly-vertical and tried to get others to go horizontal. They simply didn't want to do it...I'd go out and find that the vine wasn't winding around the cord. With persistence you can go out every day and wrap the vine around...but forget about doing it for a day or two and you've got this anorexic green dragon waving its head in the air, looking in the window and saying "Give me something to CLIMB, dammit!!" The ones I forced to go horizontal didn't do well at all. > I've just planted my hops, and am NOT looking forward to (read: dreading) > buying a BIG ladder; buying 20' poles; standing them in the ground; > stringing cable and twine; and trying to harvest hops that are growing > straight up 16 feet or so. Just get a pole and forget the ladder. Arrange it so that you can drop the pole down to the ground--for example, pivot it at the bottom and arrange to anchor it (to the house or garage) part-way up. (I saw some antenna-mounting hardware used for this.) Run several heavy cords from the top of the pole out at angles to the plants. > The idea of sending them up 6 feet or so and then over to the eves on my > roof sounds MUCH easier... Yeah, but six feet is barely a start. Are they close enough to the house that you can mount a pole by the house and train them along cord up to the pole (diagonally upward)? >...And, it would provide a wonderful shade for my > back yard. It would probably look pretty cool too. Does anyone grow > them in this way?... Yes...the lower part of my plants provides seasonal shade for my office. Nice feature--they fill in just as the weather gets hot. They drop their leaves around when the days get short, the weather gets cool, and you'd like more sunshine. You'll get shade by letting them spread out just a bit as they grow upward; you don't need to run them horizontally. They really do want to climb. >...How big is your yield (or is that a personal question)? (It is, but the yield of my hops plants isn't quite so personal.) It depends a lot on the age of the plants. Where I am--dry climate, erratic weather--it took several years for them to get established. The first year they really grew, I got maybe the equivalent of an ounce dried. Now I get a good-sized basket of hops from each plant. - - - Dick Dunn rcd at raven.eklektix.com -or- raven!rcd Boulder, Colorado Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 92 14:45:46 EST From: colin mccrossin <cmccross at dumpster.helios.nd.edu> Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest #852 (March 30, 1992) Please stop sending me mail. Quit. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 92 14:28 CST From: korz at ihlpl.att.com Subject: Re: EASYMASH (chilling) Jack writes: >UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas) > >>Jack, I know when you said to just let the chiller sit in the wort for >30 minutes without turning the water on, you were defining an experiment >of sorts. I'd just like to say that in practice, you want to turn the water >on immediately to cool the wort as quickly as possible. > >I understand but the longer it sits, the more time is has to settle out. My >thinking is that if it sits after chilling, it is subject to infection and >without mucking up the lid, the kettle can not be covered properly while the >chiller is inside. One obviously does not want to remove the chiller after >the wort is chilled. Why not? I chill my wort with an immersion chiller, and when it is at 70F, I simply pull out the chiller, cover the pot and let it sit for an hour to settle. >If it sits for 30 minutes hot it can not get infected >and is not much different from an additional 30 min boil for a chemestry >stand point but it gets an extra 30 settling time. Oh yes it is different. When the wort is boiling, it is boiling off the DMS that is produced, whereas when the boil stops, DMS keeps being produced until the wort drops below 140F, which unfortunately is in the bacteria-friendly range. You are correct in saying that keeping the wort hot will kill bacteria that happen to slip into your kettle, but incorrect in saying that it's okay to delay cooling. >> In fact, the faster you cool, the more fluffy stuff you'll see. That >stuff is the cold break. > >>The hot break happens during the boil, when proteins, etc. clump together. > >The problem with these terms is that in one instance they indicate a stage in >a process and in another/both they indicate physical stuff. Yes it is a problem, but the meaning, "stage" or "stuff" can be determined by context. >In my experience, somewhere well into the boil, stuff starts coagulating into >what looks like egg-drop soup. If this point is the "hot break", I accept >the definition but let's call the stuff something else. I'm afraid we're stuck with the terminology -- it's been used for years and the HBD can't change the whole homebrewing community. >Similarly, the "cold break"... Similarly, we can't change the meanings of cold break. If you must, I suggest "hot break trub" and "cold break trub." All due respect to Carl Sagan, but have you tried his IPA? Not nearly enough hops for the style :^). >I have big troubles understanding how this works or can be as effectively >utilized with an in-line chiller. As you mentioned earlier, it requires you to siphon or pump into an intermediate vessel and then siphon or pump into the fermenter. The advantage of a counterflow chiller is that the wort cools much more suddenly which, as Russ mentioned, will give you a better cold break (the stage). Al. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 92 14:33 CST From: korz at ihlpl.att.com Subject: Chimay white & bottle weight Is Chimay Cinq Cents the 750ml version of the Chimay "white cap?" To Pat (the resident bottle weight expert): I suggest you try weighing Whitbread or Mackeson's bottles -- my bet is they are heavier than the returnable longnecks and could be in the running for the heavyweight champion. Also try Orval bottles, another heavyweight favorite of mine. Al. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1992 12:37 PDT From: Bob Jones <BJONES at NOVA.llnl.gov> Subject: Haze info from Micah Millspaw Since there has been a lot of discussion about haze I'll tell what I know. This is a paragraph from a paper I'm working on about a related topic, this info may be somewhat confusing and hopefully thought provoking. It is known that oxidation plays an important part in the formation of protein haze and that melanoidins function as anti-oxidants and prevent the oxidation of protein. Oxidation also plays an important part in the production of colloidal haze, hence the name "oxidation haze", first coined by Helm. Moreover, the formation of chill haze is also considerably increased by oxidation. Oxidation of melanoidins and reductones will result in a lower content of stable colloids. Unstable colloids promote chill haze and permenent haze in beer. Stable colloids prevent chill haze. Permanent haze is the end product of chill haze. If you get chill haze permanent haze will follow in time . The stability of beer colloids is the result of a very complex equilibrium, and the whole problem of colloidal haze formation is difficult. A better understanding the problem will show it possible to take some steps to limit its effects in the finished beer. Also I've read George Fix's new book Vienna. I like it because it has vindicated my atempts at the style, when I get the authentic ingredients suggested by Fix ( already ordered) I hope to have these beers nailed down. One bad thing though, the book is full of typos, a failing common to all Brewers Publications books and Zymurgy and New Brewer. Micah Millspaw 3/30/92 Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1992 16:14:01 -0500 From: trwagner at unixpop.ucs.indiana.edu Subject: True Brew Has anyone ever tried the True Brew kits? Also, has anyone ever made some soda from those soda extracts that are in brew shops? If so, how did you make it, and how did it turn out? I am thinking about making some sasparrilla. Thanks Ted Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 92 08:27:56 pst From: Brian Davis <brian%mbf.uucp at ics.uci.edu> Subject: Sanitizing an immersion chiller Dennis Henderson said: >3. An immersion chiller would take another large pot for sterilizing. >Or do folks pour the wort into the primary and boil the chiller in the >wort cook pot. Why not just plop the chiller into the boil for the last few minutes? Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 92 09:55:58 -0500 From: hartman at varian.varian.com (John Hartman) Subject: re: John's Monster, brewing w/sugar Fellow Brewers-- In digest 851 Frank Willis suggests a correlation between the outgassing of foul odors during fermentation and the use of sugar. I am presently brewing a batch which contains 70% pale malt, 20% dark brown sugar, 10% British crystal, Wyeast 1098, Centennial for the boil and finish. With the exception of the brown sugar this is a routine recipe fo me. I've too have heard the caveats regarding the use of sugar but I'm experimenting and I know that it's widely used in English breweries. During the early ferment it smelled strongly of rotten eggs, which I figure is hydrogen sulfide. I've read too many digest to stress and worry, but I must admit the thought of an infection did cross my mind. After seven days in fermentation the beer looks and smells fine. There is a slight residual sulfide smell, but it's definitely tapered off. So I'm left with the strong impression that this sulfur phenomenon is associated with the brown sugar, since it's the only thing I changed. Comments? Cheers, John ps: Hats off to Karl and Mark for the fine job they've done on the Cats Meow II Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 92 10:22:17 PST From: gummitch at techbook.com (Jeff Frane) Subject: wort chiller, lager/ale First of all, thank you to the hordes who sent responses to my wort chiller questionnaire. It was definitely a poor idea to post that and go away for three days! So I will post some concrete responses after I get back from going away again. A number of people provided very long and helpful responses, including some specifics about construction. Thanks particularly for those. The one obvious comment that can be made from scanning quickly through the responses is that immersion coolers are favored overwhelmingly by the HBD and rcb crowd, mostly because of convenience, cost and concern over sanitizing counterflow chillers. I was also pleasantly surprised to see that a number of people were using wort chillers even though they weren't doing all-grain beers. I was also pleased (intimidated) to see how many people were planning on showing up in Milwaukee and will no dou doubt heckle my talk/demonstration. Oh boy. > > From: arf at ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling) > > > >Do you mean to say that trying to tell the difference between ale > characteristics and lager characteristics based on tasting commercial beers > is pointless because of stylistic differences (ie the recipes are so > different that you won't be able to isolate taste differences due to the > yeast)?? > > No. I said not a word about yeast. This is not a discussion about yeast. > It is a discussion about the difference between the taste of ale and lager. > How the producer achieves the difference is irrelevant. > > I was told to go buy a few bottles of commercial ale and lager to determine > the difference myself. > > The technical comments lead one to the conclusion that there is enough > variability in technique and recipes that it would be very difficult for an > unsophisticated taster to learn anything in that way. > > When all of the opinions are sorted out we are left with nothing more that "a > cleaner taste" and a lack of certain esoteric esterish remnants. Even the > almost universally agreed to "fruitiness" of ale leaves me in the cold. > > The only fruit I have ever tasted in my ale was bananas and apples resulting > from contaminated yeast and the use of sugar. > Now without getting into too much friction, let me suggest that there seems to be some stubbornness here. First of all, it's not possible to talk about the difference between ale and lager _without_ discussing yeast. "How the producer achieves the difference" _is_ the yeast, and the way the fermentation is controlled. I was probably the person who suggested you try drinking ale and lager side by side; I reiterate and continue to protest that that's the only way to learn the distinction. But I'm admittedly stymied by the fact that you don't taste the fruitiness in ales. I guess the real solution is to deal with what you refer to as the "unsophisticated taster" by doing some reading on taste profiles and terminology (the material from the Beer Judge Certification Program is very helpful) and perhaps by attending a beer tasting "class" either at an AHA conference or held by your local club. Beer descriptors aren't necessarily to be taken literally; they are merely the closest means of defining something that is necessarily different in everyone's mouth. The idea of training in a class is to develop a common understanding of _when_ those terms apply. I also believe it's relatively simple to see the difference with a side-by-side brewing test. Make a very simple beer, all malt and lightly hopped. Pitch a pure ale yeast in half and ferment at 65F; pitch a pure lager yeast in the other half, ferment at 45F, lager for 4 weeks and taste side by side. - --Jeff Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #853, 03/31/92