FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Zymurgy mailing address (joe_mccarthy)
  Cat's Meow, Archives, Homebrewing in MO ("Karl F. Lutzen" )
  Wheat Beer recipe and question (John Devenezia)
  Wort cooler! (Brian_Carroll)
  Red Hook E.S.B. taste-alike (rwinters)
  Re: fining (Aaron Birenboim)
  Re:  Calorie Content of HB (I was born in a desert, raised in a lion's den.)
  The Scarlet Letter (korz)
  Re: Homebrew Digest #878 (May 11, 1992) (Stuart Steinfeld)
  Orval (korz)
  Calories (korz)
  Homebrew Supplies, Chicago (stevie)
  CO2 Tank Pressure ("Robert Haddad" )
  Re: rec.crafts.brewing and HBD (Larry Barello)
  diacetyl, anyone? (Thomas Manteufel 5-4257)
  Oregon Brewer's Fest Date (John Hartman)
  Hop Books (John L. Isenhour)
  mead questions (ZLPAJGN)
  Re:  Homebrew Digest #878 (May 11, 1992) (Scott Weintraub)
  Lagering in Cornelius Kegs (KIERAN O'CONNOR)


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(Stay tuned for info on a new archive site)
**Please do not send me requests for back issues!**
**For Cat's Meow information, send mail to lutzen at novell.physics.umr.edu**


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 May 92 09:14:39 +0100
From: joe_mccarthy at hpgnd.grenoble.hp.com
Subject: Zymurgy mailing address
Full-Name: Joe McCARTHY


Could someone please e-mail me the mailing address for (the
subscription department of) the Zymurgy magazine?  Does anyone know if
they accept overseas subscriptions?

Thanks,

  Joe McCarthy
  Grenoble, France
  joe_mccarthy at hpgnd.grenoble.hp.com

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Date:     11 May 92 08:48:56 CST
From: "Karl F. Lutzen" <SUPERVISOR at novell.physics.umr.edu>
Subject:  Cat's Meow, Archives, Homebrewing in MO

Three big topics from the quiet one today:

1. Please don't bug Rob about The Cat's Meow.  Since I helped in creating
this monster, please send all email regarding The Cat's Meow directly to me
at the internet address below. I will make an attempt to answer email as
quickly as possible, but as I get swamped with work with no warning, delays
are inevitable.

2. Stephen Hansen said in HBD 878 that he has transferred the archives to
a  system of his.  Nothing was mentioned if this was the official new  home
for the HBD. As we are getting several new unix systems here, and I
will be the  local administrator, I may be able to set up an archive.
I already  have all the files from mthvax and have placed them in .ZIP
files for DOS  folks, so I will offer my services to at least maintain a
backup site (when the systems get here).

3. Since 1939 it has been illegal in Missouri to brew beer or make
wine with out a manufacturers license.  As I am in Missouri,
I have been talking with my reps, a  homebrew club (Hi Andy!) as well
as the AHA.  According to my well informed sources, our Governor *WILL
VETO* any bill coming across his desk trying to legalize homebrewing.
However, this is his final term and in January of 93, we get a new
Governor.  I have asked my Rep to toss the proposed bill out onto the floor
the day after the new Governor takes over.  I will be keeping the world
informed as to the progress (none right now as there are no bills that we
could ammend.)  BTW: It is legal to brew up to 3.2% beer as it is not
defined as an "Intoxicating Liquor".  (Yes sir.  I am planning to dilute
this to 3.2% when I bottle it. :-)







- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Karl Lutzen                    |   lutzen at novell.physics.umr.edu
University of Missouri - Rolla |
Physics Department             |          (314) 341-6317
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------

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Date: Mon, 11 May 92 08:48:26 -0500
From: devenzia at euler.jsc.nasa.gov (John Devenezia)
Subject: Wheat Beer recipe and question


Hello Fellow Homebrewers!

I have a delicious wheat beer coming out of the bottle 
right now and I thought with summer here y'all might want
to give it a try.  This beer is the best I've made so far
and is also the first I've made with liquid yeast.  Draw 
your own conclusions, but I know I will be using the liquid
stuff from now on.  The taste is hard describe; flavorful
and slightly sour like a wheat beer should be,
with a nice hop to it. It has a medium alcohol content.

But first a question.  This wheat beer was so good I'm going
to make a variation of it for my next batch.  It will a 
raspberry wheat beer and I'll be adding about 4 pounds of 
berries to it.  My question is this; when and how do _you_ add
berries or fruit to _your_ beer.  I know there is no right 
or wrong here, I'm just curious as to first hand accounts.
I've seen some recipes call for steeping the berries in the 
just boiled and cooling wort.  Other recipes say to add the
berries to the secondary fermenter.  I'm sure there are even
more way to add fruits or berries to beer.  If you could email
your responses I will summarize or just post away and I'll
still summarize.

And now the recipe (<- insert drum roll here)

Source:Variation on recipe from St.Patrich's of Texas     

Name: Day after 1040A Wheat (note date of brewing)

1 lb malted wheat
4 lbs Weizen extract
2 lbs pale malt extract
1 oz Mt. Hood - boiling
1 oz Hallertau - finish
Wyeast Bavarian Wheat Ale yeast

Popped the yeast bag a day before brewing and it puffed right up.

April 16th:

Put 2.5 gallons of cold, filtered water into pot.  Added malted wheat
(in muslin bag) to pot and brought the water to 180 degrees.
Steeped the wheat for 30 minutes.  Removed bag of wheat and brought
the water to boil.  Added malts and boiling hops to pot and let
boil for 60 minutes.  Turned off the heat and added finishing hops.
Force cooled the wort in an ice bath and put into primary
fermenter.  Added cold water to fermenter to bring the water level 
to 5 gallon mark. Pitched yeast.

O.G. 1.038

Fermentation started in about a day and was relatively calm.

April 20th:

Racked to secondary.  Very little trub in bottom of fermentor.  S.G. 1.010 

April 27th:

Bottled.  Very clear beer with only yeast sediment on bottom of fermentor.
S.G. 1.008.


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Date: Sun, 10 May 92 07:13 PDT
From: Brian_Carroll at 3mail.3com.com
Subject: Wort cooler!


  Hi, I've just started getting into home brewing in the last couple of 
months, and have just been placing my wort in the bath tub with ice water.
  What I would like to know is there a company who makes a wort chiller?
If not does anyone have plans on how to build one, I,ve read in a few books 
that the counter flow is the way to go.  Are there other methods that have 
worked for anyone on HBD.
  By the way my brew has turned out very tasty so far but there is always 
room for improvement.


 Brian Carroll
 Santa Clara, Ca 



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Date: Mon, 11 May 1992 10:43:00 -0500
From: rwinters at nhqvax.hq.nasa.gov
Subject: Red Hook E.S.B. taste-alike

It's beginning to look like I may miss my annual trip to Bumbershoot
(Seattle's mundo-mondo arts festival) over Labor Day weekend. So that I
don't go into complete withdrawal, does anyone have an extract recipe that
approximates Red Hook E.S.B.? Also great would be a store within driving
distance of Washington, D.C. that carries Red Hook, Black Hook, Ballard
Bitter, etc.

Rob


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Date: Mon, 11 May 92 08:44:56 MDT
From: abirenbo at rigel.hac.com (Aaron Birenboim)
Subject: Re: fining

In the HBD I recieved may 11, Andy Phillips said:

>... fining with Bentonite, agar or
>Polyclar is the best solution.

  I know about polyclar...  but how should one use agar or bentonite?
I have agar-agar flakes (from the chineese food isle... eden foods)
for making yeast culture media.  How would i fine with agar?
Boil it and pitch the liquid?  How much should i use.

And... what the heck is Bentonite?  Around denver, co there is a lot
of talk about a clay called bentonite.  It appears that houses built
on bentonite have a tendency to shift and sink into the earth!
How might a clay product be used in beer !?!?

    aaron

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Date: Mon, 11 May 92 06:59:50 PDT
From: EISENHOFER at maven.dnet.EDA.Teradyne.COM (I was born in a desert, raised in a lion's den.)
Subject: Re:  Calorie Content of HB

>The other day after an exhusting hour of raquetball, I sat slumped against the
>wall nursing a Gatorade.  Glancing at the "Contents" I noticed "Water, High
>Fuctose Corn Syrup, Dextrose......" and not much else.  So this great
>sports drink is basically sugar water.  Furthur, this 16 oz bottle contained
>100 calories.  This got me thinking about the "beer belly".  Would drinking
>a "Milwieser" Light with about 100 calories cause any more belly than the
>Gatorade I was currently drinking? 

I recently read about a study in the Boston Globe (sorry, I can't cite
any more than this as I am doing it from memory) that found that alcohol
reduces the body's ability to burn fat.  The study went on to say that
the body burned all the alcohol calories and all the carbohydrate
calories, while not burning all fat calories.  A person drinking the
equivalent of three beers a day burned 1/3 less fat than the person
not consuming any alcohol, with similar dietary intake.  The alcohol 
was not beer, but I think that it is a safe extrapolation to assume 
that beer would cause the same effect.

Thus, beer is not directly fattening, since all the calories in 
beer are carbohydrate or alcohol calories.  However, if you drink
beer, you should be more careful of your fat intake.  (Which, for
me has been exactly my problem;  when I drink a lot of beer, I tend
to go for the more fatty foods:  sausgages, steaks, ice cream, etc :-)
This study, BTW, shows that lite beer is just as fattening as regular
beer (excepting for pychological effects: people drinking lite beer
are probably more likely to go for a less fattening meal).  So,
eat well, exercise regularly, and party on! :-)

Karl

Karl Eisenhofer   SPIKE  eisenhofer at maven.dnet.teradyne.com
"Searchlight casting for faults in the clouds of delusion"


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Date: Mon, 11 May 92 10:24 CDT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com
Subject: The Scarlet Letter

As Mitch mentioned, there have been several suggestions for identifying
oneself as a HB Digester.  The original one, was a self-imposed red
(or scarlet) "H" on our badges.  For the sake of simplicity, I vote that
we go with this, original suggestion.
Al.

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Date: Mon, 11 May 92 8:21:16 PDT
From: stu at group1.uu.net (Stuart Steinfeld)
Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest #878 (May 11, 1992)

please remove me from your mailing list. thanks!!

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Date: Mon, 11 May 92 10:43 CDT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com
Subject: Orval

Mike writes:
>	This led to a great improvement in their consistentency.
>	Jackson sez that Orval, on the other hand, does use 5 different
>    yeasts at different stages in the brewing process. 
>
>I have never been successful at reculturing Orval.  I've just found a
>source for 750ml bottles of Grimbergen, and those seem to have a healthy
>amount of yeast in them.  Chimay is, however, unbelievable.
>	

I have been successful at reculturing Orval.  I bought a case of it and
sometimes when I had one, I'd add 8 fl oz of 1018 wort to the dregs and
put on an airlock.  Of the 6 I did, three did not start and 3 did.  Each
smelled and tasted different.  I chose the cleanest smelling and best
tasting one of the three and pitched it into a batch I had engineered to
be as close to Orval as I could get it.  It took *FOREVER* to ferment out.
We're talking 6 weeks at 66F!  It started at about 3 bubbles per second
after 3 days in the fermenter and then tapered down to 1 bubble per
second for about 4 weeks!  Finally, last week it quickly tapered down to
1 bubble every 2 minutes, so I bottled, using 7/8 cup of corn sugar to
(hopefully) get that effervescent carbonation.  That was a week ago.
The initial tasting at bottling time was very positive.  I suspect that
I came pretty close to the real thing.

My understanding from reading Jackson, is that Orval uses one yeast to
ferment and then 5 yeasts for bottle conditioning.  This would explain
why I got widely differing flavors in the starters.  I'm quite confident
that I got the right one because only one had the characteristic Orval
"Banana/Bubblegum" nose.  That's the one I used.  The ferment and the
initial tasting both had that nose.

Al.


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Date: Mon, 11 May 92 10:58 CDT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com
Subject: Calories

I believe alcohol is 80 calories per ounce.  The snag with alcohol
and the reason I believe it causes beer-bellies, is because it
lowers your metabolism.  Therefore, 800 calories from pasta is not
the same as 800 calories from beer.  The lower your metabolism,
the less calories you burn per hour.  I choose to make up the
difference by excersizing to increase my metabolism rather than
drink less beer.
Al.

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Date: Mon, 11 May 92 10:47:39 CDT
From: stevie at spss.com
Subject: Homebrew Supplies, Chicago

David Christian Homan <dh10+ at andrew.cmu.edu> asks about homebrew supply shops
in the Chicago area.  I recommend Chicago Indoor Garden Supply (also known as
Alternative Garden Supply) in NW suburban Streamwood, in the small strip mall
at Barrington and Bode Roads.  Owner David Ittel has been very responsive to
homebrewers, stocking his shelves with enough stuff to keep beginning and/or
advanced brewers happy.  For those concerned about the ride (most of us in the
city have to face the Kennedy Expressway reconstruction on top of a normal 45-
minute trip), the store will overnight UPS if you call in your order.  

"Brew Your Own, Grow Your Own" is the slogan of this shop, which now advertises
on a number of popular rock radio stations.  

- -----------

Steve Hamburg      Internet:  stevie  at spss.com
SPSS Inc.          Phone:     312/329-3445
Chicago, IL        Fax:       312/329-3657

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Date:     11 May 92 12:44:32 EDT
From: "Robert Haddad" <RHADDAD at bss1.umd.edu>
Subject:  CO2 Tank Pressure

>>>> In HBD #878  <rnapholz at PICA.ARMY.MIL> writes:


> Is there a minimal pressure for a co2 tank. The regulator that came
> with my tank ranges for 0 to 2000 pounds it came with 1000# of co2.
> From 0 to 500 the guage reads refill(read zone) i now have about
> 800#. So the question is can i run the tank down to 12psi with out
> effecting the quality of the beer.

I have just had my CO2 tank refilled for the first time since I
bought it over a year ago. I estimate I have "lifted" about 20
cornelius kegs of (sugar) primed beer with the 5 lb or so of CO2 that
originally came with the tank.

Although I remember reading somewhere that one should refill the tank
before it is totally empty, I didn't have the chance. I used it
one evening till it was totally empty with no ill effect to tank, keg
or brew.

Incidentally, refilling it to 800 psi cost be $12.50. I now have a T
connector with two valves, so I can dispense two different brews
simultaneously.

Robert Haddad







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Date: Mon, 11 May 92 10:00:45 PDT
From: polstra!larryba at uunet.UU.NET (Larry Barello)
Subject: Re: rec.crafts.brewing and HBD

I like the notion of the HBD sort of dying and being gatewayed into
rec.crafts.brewing.  The only difficulty is the folks who don't have
access to Usnet news.  I don't know what the solution is to that problem.
Also, the current scheme of copying HBD into Rec.crafts.brewing isn't 
a good solution (although easy) - the HBD is delayed a day (on my machine)
and it still comes over as a big chunk.

Modern news readers (trn) make wading through stuff so much easier and
faster.  I read news and HBD via a modem and being forced to go through all
the articles to see what is next takes a long time at 2400baud.

Cheers!

 - Larry Barello

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Date: Mon, 11 May 92 12:31:40 CDT
From: tomm at pet.med.ge.com (Thomas Manteufel 5-4257)
Subject: diacetyl, anyone?

I want to produce a Scottish Ale with lots of diacetyl.  What I propose to
do is modify the pitching and fermentation procedure to make the yeast
produce a lot up front, and then not reduce it to diols.  I would use
Whitebread Ale, and make a starter to get a good healthy colony going.
Pitch the yeast when the wort is still on the warm side (75F) [24C] and aerate
like crazy to get lots of oxygen into the wort.  Ferment cool (55F-60F)
[13C-15C] and bottle as soon as possible, without letting the beer go through
secondary fermentation.
So, all you power brewers, does this sound reasonable?  Is there a better
way to get diacetyl?  Has anyone ever done this, and do you have any tips to
share?
Thank You,
Thomas Manteufel


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Date: Mon, 11 May 92 09:36:41 PDT
From: hartman at varian.varian.com (John Hartman)
Subject: Oregon Brewer's Fest Date

Could someone who knows please post the date of this summer's Oregon Brewer's
Festival?  I'd appreciate it as I plan on being there.

Also Darren asks about the lineage of William's Burton Ale Yeast.  I've
used that yeast in the past and wondered same.  I called William's and
asked.  They claim that it's their own strain produced specifically
for them by Wyeast.  I.e., there's no equivalent Wyeast #.  Based on my
observations, it doesn't appear to be either Wyeast #1098 (Whitbread) or
1028.  The same situation applies to their English Brewery Yeast.  Perhaps
there's someone the knowledgeable Jeff Frane could ask...

Well now that I'm posting I guess I should mention that I just got back
from England and yes I tasted quite a few beers.  I visited the Young's
Ram Brewery in Wandsworth, London.  I you ever are there, you must
visit them.  The hospitality was spectacular and they're very open and
forthright about their brewing.  When I mentioned that I was a brewer,
I was taken to the laboratory, where the chemist innoculated my slants
and answered my questions.  Later, in the tasting room, I and the six
others on the tour were joined by two of the five brewers and by the
the acting chairman, Mr. James Young.  We chatted and discussed brewing
while consuming many of their fine beers for some two hours.  As Wayne
Campbell would say, "excellent" and after learning about their brewing,
"I did not no that".  Upon leaving they were kind enough to send me off
with a six pack of my choosing.  If you go, you'll have to make
a reservation in advance by phoning Mrs. Betty Moran any Monday betw. 11am
and 1pm London time.  I don't have the number at the office but have it
if someone would like it.

I'm brewing a batch of IPA with their ale yeast now.  It's a slow-burning true
top fermenter.  After six and one half days, the krausen is still riding the beer.
I've not had a yeast stay so long atop before.  Perhaps it has to do with
having been recently cultured from the slant, but I don't think so.  The brewers
told me that they don't even krausen their beer.  They simply cask it and let
it finish in the cask.  If others are interested I could provide this
culture on slants.  Right now though I'm waiting to see how the IPA
comes out.

Here's to a healthy apple,
John

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Date:    Mon, 11 May 1992 14:37:55 -0500 (CDT)
From: ISENHOUR at LAMBIC.FNAL.GOV (John L. Isenhour)
Subject: Hop Books

I hate people who say...

enjoy!


Tomlan, Michael A. Tinged with Gold: Hop Culture in the United
     States. LC 90-46389. (Illus.). 272p. 02/1992. $35.00x. (ISBN
     0-8203-1313-0). University of Georgia Press.


Filmer, R. Hops & Hop-Picking. 1990. $30.00x. (Kent Cty Coun UK).
     State Mutual Book & Periodical Service, Limited.


Beach, David R. Homegrown Hops: An Illustrated How-to-Do-It
     Manual. LC 88-92165. (Illus.). 108p. (Orig.). 12/1988. Paper.
     $8.00. (ISBN 0-9621195-0-4). Beach, David R.


Lingren, Minnie. Hops Cultivation in Lewis County. 54p. Date not
     set. Repr. of 1981 ed. Paper. $7.50. (ISBN 0-685-30404-3).
     Fernwood Press.

 -
John Isenhour 
isenhour at lambic.fnal.gov
hopduvel!brewmaster at linac.fnal.gov

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Date:    Mon, 11 May 92 16:04 CDT
From: ZLPAJGN%LUCCPUA.bitnet at UICVM.UIC.EDU
Subject: mead questions

Dear Brewers

This weekend I hope to brew up my first batch of mead and I was
hoping I could pick up a few pointers from anyone who's already
tried this type of brew.  I'll be referring to Papezian's recipe
for Antipodal (Traditional) Mead, but adjusting the measures for
a one gal. batch instead of a five.

Pap. instructs to begin the fermentation in a closed, glass vessel
and then rack to a secondary to clear after fermentation's complete.
My question is: what sort of fermentation activity can I expect?
Will I need a blow-off hose for this stage, or will a lock suffice -
I suspect I'll need a blow-off...  Secondly, he recommends using
yeast extract to assist fermentation, but the shop I ordered from
doesn't carry "extract" per se, but something they call "yeast
energizer" which they say is really the same thing, but most often
used to unstick stuck fermentations.  Anyone got any feedback?

Finally, here's an update on 3 of my previous batches for which
many of you on the network provided much needed input... I'm sad
and embarrassed to say 2 of these batches are complete and dismal
failures - the ginger-spruce lager is so repulsive that it's tough
from gagging after just smelling it!  Pine-sol is even more pleasent
than this stuff!  It is simply undrinkable...  The other batch - the
recipe for which again comes from Bravery - I call "Chicago Tunnel
Water (let your imagination wander on this one!!)  There is little
I can say that could adaquately describe this ...  this ... stuff!
It's even worse than the "Pine-sol Brew" above!

But I can't say that I've not learned something (and that is, in
my opinion, the whole point of this hobby):  If nothing else, shelf
the Bravery book (perhaps the author's chosen a rather ironic nom
d'plumme!!).  I have yet to find success for any of the recipes in
his book, beginning with the now infamous "Monstrocity Ale" (which,
yes, did actually sprout legs and walk away!).   Secondly, regardless
of whose recipe you're following, now that all else's failed, READ THE
DIRECTIONS!!  I did exactly that for the Propensity Lager in Papezian
and it was magnificent!  Finally, I've learned that in sharing your
enthusiasm for a successful batch by hosting a "homebrew" party (such
as the one I held for the batch of Propensity Lager) you'll inevitably
wind up with empty bottles and a "where did they all go?!" feeling :-)
and a ton of new friends all wanting to know when the next batch is due!

Ah, well...  I'll be brewin' this weekend.  I think I'll try Pap's
recipe for (snicker) "Goat Scrotum Ale" (I wonder how well-attended THAT
party will be!!).  Also, thanx in advance for any direction on the mead.

Cheers

John


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Date: Mon, 11 May 92 18:13:53 EDT
From: sfw at trionix.com (Scott Weintraub)
Subject: Re:  Homebrew Digest #878 (May 11, 1992)

I have been planning on making some mead of late, and went searching
for large quantities of cheap honey.  I was unable to find any honey,
but I did run across a couple of places selling Maple Syrup...

So, I started to think...

If honey is fermentable into something quite tasty, why not Maple Syrup?


So, has anyone out there ever heard of maple beer or anything of the sort?
Would it be any good?
Would it be worth the money?

Any comments would be appreciated...


Thanks..
        --Scott Weintraub

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Date: Mon, 11 May 1992 23:01 EDT
From: KIERAN O'CONNOR <OCONNOR%SNYCORVA.bitnet at CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Lagering in Cornelius Kegs

Hi,

I have access to a freezer which I can use for long term lagering. I
cannot fit carboys in it because of the shelving, so my friend
suggested lagering in Cornelius kegs, which I have access to.

Can anyone out there give me a primer on how to do this?  How 'bout
C02 buildup? Is there a problem with sediment because they would be on
their sides? How about aeration during transportation to the freezer
(30 miles away)?  How 'bout anything answers to anything else I forgot
to ask?

Kieran O'Connor

oconnor at snycorva.bitnet

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #879, 05/12/92