HOMEBREW Digest #913 Tue 30 June 1992

Digest #912 Digest #914


	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Re: low yield (Desmond Mottram)
  Dry yeast recommendations (Tom Maszerowski)
  brewpubs in Berzerkley??? ("Spencer W. Thomas")
  Looking for a recipe (sami)
  The Birmingham Brewery (Guy D. McConnell)
  WYEAST CA Common (JOHNREED)
  First Mash (Ruth Mazo Karras)
  chillers (korz)
  Re: DMS and counter flow chillers.  (Larry Barello)
  Re: More on hop backs. Mash effieciency. (Larry Barello)
  Ants on hops... (Dave Platt)
  Availability of acid carboys in California (No more?) (Matt Titus)
  McEwan's India Pale (PIERCE)
  Business sponsorship of brew clubs? (Stephen Russell)
  Hop plants and the wind! (Nick Zentena)
  Cleaning hop residue (BOB JONES)
  A series of questions on Sparging (oehler)
  trouble with a roto keg (John Williams)
  First All grain, Low Yield (Charles Anderson)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 29 Jun 92 10:06:12 BST From: des at pandora.swindon.ingr.com (Desmond Mottram) Subject: Re: low yield I missed Gordon's original post, so these details are snarfed from Jack's reply. Gordon says: > I posted here about 2 months ago complaining about low yield. The > general concensus was to slow down my sparge, and that helped, but I am > still not up to where I think I should be. Here are the details: > > 8 lb klages > .5 lb munich > .5 lb crystal > > I use a one step infusion mash at 155 for 45 minutes. > > The starting gravity is 1.036 and finishing is 1.006. With 9 lb > of grain I think I should be getting around 1.040. > I'd expect to get still more than that. I mash in three gallons, sparge with three gallons, and with 9lb of grain usually get around 5.5 gallons at 1042. Based on what the books say I would say I have room for yet further improvement. I've also had problems with poor yield and was interested in the replies. All I'd agree with: Jason says check the pH. Dead right. The enzymes will slow unless you get it right. Check what the correct figures should be because I'm going from memory here, but I think you need to be between 5.0 and 5.5. Lower pH favours one enzyme, alpha amylase I think. Higher pH favours the other. Kinney says the temp is a mite too high. I agree, 155 is fine for starting but you might do well to drop it to 150 after starch conversion, to assist the beta amylase. Then Kinney says 45 mins is not really long enough. I think he has put his finger right on your problem here. I find 45 mins nowhere near enough when mashes are being stubborn. The greatest amount of conversion happens early, yes, but you need at least 30 mins more for dextrins to convert to maltose and to wring the rest of the starch from the grains. On occasions when I've reluctantly had to make do with poorly crushed grain, the mash has taken over 4 hours. Dave Line even suggests mashing overnight! My next move in your situation Gordon would be to double the mash time to 1.5 hours. Furthermore, if your temp and pH are a bit off you will need more time still. Lastly Kinney suggests a sparge bag. Yes again, I wouldn't be without mine. Desmond Mottram. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 92 08:45:47 EDT From: tcm at moscom.com (Tom Maszerowski) Subject: Dry yeast recommendations I was in my one of my local homebrew outlets (Maier's in Webster, NY) this weekend looking for nothing in particular when I happened to notice that the yeast selection was terrible. Maier's at one time was a distributor of MeV (sp?) liquid cultures but since they have stopped production Maier's no longer has any liquid yeast. I have used Whitbread dry yeast in the past with excellent results but now I hear that it is no longer being produced. I prefer to use dry yeasts because my brewing schedule is at best haphazard, I usually can't plan more than a day ahead. My question is: is there a good, generally clean ale yeast available in dry form or will I be forced to go to Wyeast? Tom - ----- Tom Maszerowski tcm at moscom.com {rit,tropix,ur-valhalla}!moscom!tcm DoD#1957 (1987 BMW K75s) Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 92 09:44:13 EDT From: "Spencer W. Thomas" <Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu> Subject: brewpubs in Berzerkley??? I'm going to be in Berkeley, CA in a couple of weeks. My brewpub list shows (a message from Thode, 1990) Triple Rock on Shattuck near University Golden Gate Brewery "Near the waterfront" Bison Brewing Co. at 2598 Telegraph The Institute of Brewing Studies list (posted July 1991) omits the Golden Gate Brewery. Probably closed, I guess. Any other recommendations, or is that it? =S Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1992 09:11:01 -0800 From: sami at scic.intel.com Subject: Looking for a recipe I have brewed a couple of weissen beers and they were great. recently I was reading Dave Miller's book and he mentioned a hefeweissen. What's the difference? Does anyone have recipe that I can use? Neither Miller nor Papazian have one listed that I could find. Also, John Otten asked about priming with DME: I use approximately 1-1/2 cups to prime and it seems to work fine. Sam Israelit Engineer, Businessman, . . . Brewer Portland, OR Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 92 9:51:31 CDT From: guy at mspe5.b11.ingr.com (Guy D. McConnell) Subject: The Birmingham Brewery The following AP article appeared in Sunday's Huntsville Times: Birmingham Brewery has sellout debut Until last weekend, beer brewed in Birmingham went down the drain. But Red Mountain Red Ale had a better fate. Birmingham Brewing Co. offered the beer for the first time at the City Stages music festival, which began last Friday night in Birmingham. By 9 p.m. Saturday, the brewery had sold the last of its intitial production of 1,147 gallons. "It was a big deal for us, a big deal for Alabama," said John Zanteson, head brewer. "We worked until 3 a.m. Friday morining filling kegs." The brewery is the first in Birmingham since 1907, when politicians banned alcohol and forced the original Birmingham Brewing Co. to pour 300 barrels of beer into the street. The brewery is one of a growing number of microbreweries that each produce a few thousand gallons a year. Today, there are more than 200, many in California and the Pacific Northwest, Zanteson said. Officials at the state Alcoholic Beverage Control Board said Birmingham Brewing Co. is the first microbrewery in the state, although there has been talk of starting one in Mobile. Zanteson worked for a microbrewery in California (Hopland, ed.) before joining the Birmingham firm. It began building its brewery in February and has been installing equipment to brew the ale and a lager. The lager takes longer to go through the fermentation, Zanteson said. The company is owned by Lee Nicholson, the brewmaster, and Ben Hogan, a Birmingham attorney. - -- Guy McConnell guy at mspe5.b11.ingr.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 92 10:32:01 EDT From: JOHNREED at BOSTON.VNET.IBM.COM Subject: WYEAST CA Common A couple of days ago, Russ posted a question about WYEAST California Common Beer (aka Steam Beer yeast). Well, I just brewed my second batch using it, and I can say that it produces clean beer. Probably my best batch so far. Here are a couple of items I noticed. During primary fermentation at 65 F. a sulphur-like odor emanated from the airlock. This went away after a day or two. After secondary fermentation of 3 weeks, I bottled and noticed no off flavors or odors. But when I sampled a bottle (admittedly soon--after 6 days) I again noticed the sulphur smell. Now, however, three weeks since bottling, it's very clean with no suphur smell. It's a light bodied beer (too light for a steam beer, IMHO) based on Papazian's first "The Sun Has Left Us On Time" recipe. There is a citrus (grapefruit-like) flavor which might be from the Cascade hops. I'm not sure. It could also be from the 2 oz of loose K Goldings I used to dry hop. My second batch is in the secondary now. This time, however, I used Papazian's second "The Sun Has...." recipe. The difference is that it calls for a lot more Alexander's Pale extract. This recipe should be truer to the Anchor Steam style with more body. At any rate, the WYEAST seems to be a good strain. The second batch, by the way, did not produce that sulphur odor as a by-product. Something I did or maybe just more nutrients available for the yeast with a higher OG? -JR Return to table of contents
Date: 29 Jun 92 11:21:11 EST From: Ruth Mazo Karras <RKARRAS at PENNSAS.UPENN.EDU> Subject: First Mash Well I did my first mash yesterday. It was surprisingly easy, considering that I needed to fabricate my mash/lauter tun and wort chiller. Here is what I did. For a mash/lauter tun I used a five gallon cylindrical water cooler, Rubbermaid Gott brand. These are available at Sears and home center stores and maybe K-Mart. I got mine in New Jersey, but they are available closer to Philadelphia. About $20. I did not get the squarish Coleman brand, though, because it would not work as well with my sparge system described below. I also got a plastic drum tap from Home Sweet Homebrew (HSH) in Philadelphia for a couple of dollars. Then I unscrewed the push button tap on the Gott cooler, using a pencil soldering iron I melted a larger opening in the outer wall of the cooler where the tap is inserted and scraped away the insulation from between the walls. I had to enlarge the opening in the inner wall of the cooler, but much less than the outer wall. The drum tap then screws into position with the two washers supplied and a bit of formable washer (a thin strip of sealing compound used to pack leaky faucets). The washers may be enough, but my inner hole was not quite circular and I feared a leak during the mash. I may seal the whole thing with silicone sealant if I ever get a leak, but for now the tap is removable. To complete the mash/lauter tun setup, I set into the bottom of the tun a vegetable steamer of the sort that opens like petals of a flower. It is designed to hold vegetables in a pot of boiling water about 1/2" off the bottom of the pot. It costs about $10 at HSH, but got mine on a whim at Ikea in Plymouth Meeting a while ago for about $2. It is made of stainless steel. Finally, I got a nylon grain bag at HSH for about $10 that fits inside the tun. The wort chiller was really easy. I got 20 feet of L 3/8" O.D. refrigerator copper tubing at Hechingers in Narberth for about $12 and, for about $2.50, a compression fitting that takes the tubing to 1/2" threads and an adapter that then goes to 3/4" garden hose size (which connects to the adapter on my kitchen faucet that I got with my bottle washer). Before installing the fittings, I re-coiled the tubing around the outside of a pot that was smaller than my brew kettle and then bent the ends up into an inverted "J" so drips from any fittings fall outside the brew kettle. On the intake side I used a spare washing machine hose and on the discharge side I stuck some old siphon hose over the tubing (it was a tight fit). I then dumped 7-1/2 lbs. of my pre-crushed British 2-row grain and 1/2 lb. of 40 L. pre-crushed British crystal malt into the grain bag in the tun (which sits on top of the steamer), turned the tap off, and put in two gallons of 170 F. water. (I used the water charts for a single step infusion mash from Papazian's book.) Stirred vigorously and checked that my mash temperature was between 150 and 155 F. (I hit about 151 F.) I did an iodine test (it worked!), screwed the top of the tun on and let it work for about 90 minutes. After mashing, I drained the first runnings from the tun and added 4 gallons of boiling water, stirred again, and let sit for 30 minutes. I then drained off the second runnings and proceeded as I have with extract brews. This simple "mash out and sparge" technique seemed to work well, although I have not calculated efficiency. I will try to measure that next time when I have a better idea what I am doing and do not need to make up the tun and the like. George at HSH suggested that to sparge in this setup a colander could be set over the top of the tun to spread out the sparge water as it is poured in. I hope the easy "sparge" will be sufficient, and not release too many tannins from the hulls of the grain. Since I read about this technique in HBD, I would be interested to hear about your experiences with it. Chris Karras (RKarras at PennSAS.UPenn.edu) Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 92 11:37 CDT From: korz at iepubj.att.com Subject: chillers The original poster, accidentally wrote "immersion" instead of "counterflow" in his post, but that's it. For the record, there are basically two major types of wort chillers used by homebrewers: 1. Immersion -- run cool water (usually tapwater) through a coil of tubing which is immersed in the kettle of hot wort. A water-saving option is to use a pump and recirculate icewater through the coil. Some immersion chillers have an pre-chilling stage in which the tapwater runs through an additional coil first which is submerged in a tank of icewater. Advantages are: lower cost, most cold break left in kettle, easier to hit pitching temperature, and the surface that touches the wort is visible and thus easily cleanable. Disadvantages: entire volume of wort (simultaneoulsy) cools slowly, efficiency dependent on tapwater temperature (i.e. not efficient in say, Florida, where the tapwater is not cold), and there is a slightly higher risk of infection since the wort spends more time between boiling and pitching temperatures. 2. Counterflow -- tube-in-hose chiller. Hot wort is siphoned or pumped through a tube which is surrounded by a hose carrying cool water (usually tapwater). Again, a water saving option is to recirculate icewater through the hose. Another option, which is based upon the same principle, is to substitute a bucket of icewater for the hose -- basically siphoning or pumping hot wort through a coil submerged in a bucket of icewater. The plate chiller which many brewpubs and micros use is a version of this type (some also use glycol for coolant). Advantages: wort cools (serially) suddenly (better cold break), higher efficiency even with warmer tapwaters, and slightly less chance of infection since the wort immediately goes from boiling to pitching temperature. Disadvantages: higher cost, cold break separation requires additional siphoning or filtration, wort outlet temperature more difficult to predict and adjust, and (unless you use a pump) requires you to siphon boiling wort. For more information, see Zymurgy - "Brewer's and Thier Gadgets" and Jeff Frane's paper in the 1992 AHA Conference Proceedings. There was also an article on Wort Chillers in one of the last two issues of Zymurgy. I use an immersion chiller mostly because I, personally, don't like the idea of siphoning 200F wort and feel its easier to use. NOTE: From Jeff's session at the Conference I learned that cold break really begins at 65F, which is a little colder than I would like for pitching temp. What I plan to start doing, is to cool down to 60F and then turn on the hot water to bring the wort back to 70F. Try *that* with a counterflow chiller! Al. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 92 09:43:59 PDT From: polstra!larryba at uunet.UU.NET (Larry Barello) Subject: Re: DMS and counter flow chillers. Russ Gelinas writes: > > I've got some question that pertain to chillers, hopping, and all >this sort of stuff we've been talking about. Isn't it a good idea to >allow the steam from the hot wort to escape to disperse DMS (dimethtyl >sulfide, the cooked vegetable smell)? If so, do you counterflow-chiller >users wait a while before you start chillin'? How long is "long enough"? > Per George Fix, in "The Principles of Brewing Science", DMS precursors have a 45 minute half life at boiling temperatures. DMS is volatile and is quickly removed in the vapors of your boiling wort. A typical American 2 row malt will have the precursors reduced below the sensory threshold after 2 or three half lifes. I guess that is why a 90 minute boil is a good thing. Anyway, the conversion of precursors to DMS halts when the wort is chilled. So all that is needed is to have the hot wort vented until chilled. In my case, I put the lid on my wort until ready to chill (about 10 minutes waiting for the swirling to stop) and I had a pretty consistent DMS problem. Since leavign the top off my kettle, I have not had a problem. - Larry Barello Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 92 09:33:14 PDT From: polstra!larryba at uunet.UU.NET (Larry Barello) Subject: Re: More on hop backs. Mash effieciency. Kinney Baughman writes: >And Gordon worries about the low yield of his mashes: > >>I use a one step infusion mash at 155 for 45 minutes. > >Mashing at 155 will not convert as many of the sugars as would mashing >at 150. Mashing at 155 will promote a dextrinish wort. You'll miss >the maltose since the enzymes for converting these are inactive if not >destroyed at the higher temps. > Many breweries mash around 156-160 and seem to get decent beers/conversion times. Regardless of the dextrine maltose balance, the OG should be pretty consistent. > >>Sparge now takes about 45 minutes to complete. > >That's plenty of time. As I posted, recently, I did a quick sparge of 20 minutes and achieved my target OG based upon the extract yields quoted by Dave Miller. 45 minutes, indeed is plenty of time. Cheers! - Larry Barello Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 92 10:14:29 PDT From: dplatt at ntg.com (Dave Platt) Subject: Ants on hops... > It might be a good idea to look closely > for aphids if ants are observed on the hop vines, and treat accordingly. > Ladybugs are hell on aphids, if you can convince them to hang around. The best way I've found to encourage ladybugs is to plant some cilentro (coriander, Chinese parsley) in the garden. Adult ladybugs feed on nectar, and seem to prefer the small, compound flowers found on plants in the carrot family. They seem quite partial to cilentro flowers; fennel, dill, and other members of that clan should work out well, also. I used to have aphids in my garden every summer, and I rarely saw any ladybugs. Since I started planting some cilentro around the edges of the garden, I've had ladybugs, and no aphid problems. My experience seems to match that of other gardeners... if you plant annuals which attract beneficial insects, you'll have fewer pest problems. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 92 10:42:09 PDT From: dcdwest!titus at UCSD.EDU (Matt Titus) Subject: Availability of acid carboys in California (No more?) Has anyone had difficulty getting hold of 7 gallon sulphuric acid carboys? The proprietor of the local brew shop claimed that none had been available for four months. He said that a new law has been passed that requires users of such carboys to recycle them. Apparently acid carboys were used once and then thrown away, which accounts for their wide availablity. Note that this (possibly inaccurate) data point comes from San Diego. What's the scoop? Have the reagent distributors changed the material used to make carboys? Are there still glass carboys available for purchase by homebrewers, and if so, is the price still reasonable? Was this guy full of it? Not worrying, Matt Titus Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1992 10:53 PDT From: PIERCE%GONZAGA.BITNET at CORNELLC.cit.cornell.edu Subject: McEwan's India Pale Our favorite local establishment has been serving McEwan's India Pale Ale on tap and it is simply fantastic! If anyone out there has tried it and come up with a recipe that even comes close I would love to get it so we can try our hand at it. Thanks Linda Pierce Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 92 13:51:59 EDT From: srussell at msc.cornell.edu (Stephen Russell) Subject: Business sponsorship of brew clubs? Homebrew club members, Does your club solicit local businesses as sponsors? I am seeking to boost our own club's revenue (the Ithaca Brewers' Union, or IBU) by getting local businesses to become club sponsors. I would like to get advice from other clubs in order to avoid reinventing the wheel. Among the ways I envision this being done: 1) Providing club meeting space. Our club meets at the local brewpub, which saves us $ we might need to pay at another place, so this is a form of sponsorship we have at the present time. 2) Donation of merchandise (or cash) for raffles or competition winners. We did this at our spring competition; the local homebrew shop donated merchandise and two local retailers -- one a restaurant, the other the brewpub mentioned earlier -- donated cash for ribbons. 3) Donation of beer for tastings. I don't know about the legality of this one, but I am considering it for future IBU tastings. Basically, if a local retailer donates 3 or 4 six-packs to the club, we turn around and hold a tasting of 3-4 commercial and 3-5 homebrews and charge a nominal fee. The club keeps the proceeds. The quid pro quo for the retailer is that the club members are informed of who provided the beer (and therefore know where to get more of the same). Anyone do something like this? Is it legal? By the way, right now we hold tastings like this and charge a nominal fee, but we go out and buy the beer from a retailer instead of getting it donated. I realize that the tasting itself is probably illegal, but what about the retalier's donation? 4) Direct, unspecified sponsorship. Give the club $ (I'd like to hear what is reasonable) outright and get listed as a sponsor in the club newsletter. Annual basis. 5) Newsletter advertisement. I've seen this in certain club newsletters but also know of many clubs that have a stated policy of not taking ads. Does your club do this? If not, why not? If so, how much/page? Obviously, some of these our club has tried, but I would like to hear what your club does. Please send me e-mail directly (srussell at msc.cornell.edu or srussell at crnlmsc2.bitnet) and I will collect, edit and post if there seems to be sufficient interest. Thanks very much, STEVE Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1992 14:41:31 -0400 From: Nick Zentena <zen%hophead at canrem.com> Subject: Hop plants and the wind! Hi, My hops seem to take a beating every time the wind kicks up. I've had laterals broken and even on one day the leader snapped off one vine-(. So is there anything I can do to minimize this? Do you tie the laterals? Should I just learn to live with it? Nick ***************************************************************************** I drink Beer I don't collect cute bottles! zen%hophead at canrem.com ***************************************************************************** Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1992 11:04 PDT From: BOB JONES <BJONES at NOVAX.llnl.gov> Subject: Cleaning hop residue Does anyone know of a chemical that will cut the hop residue inside a blowoff tube. The residue is very sticky hop oils and I just usually soak it in bleach solution over night. The stuff is still there but I figure nothing would grow on it anyway. Sure would be nice to really clean it occasionally. Bob Jones Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 92 09:50:36 EDT From: oehler at smpvax.dnet.ge.com Subject: A series of questions on Sparging Good Morning All, I have a question regarding sparging. I've been brewing extract for four years now and recently attempted my first all grain. Everything went fine, and the stout was excellent, but I'm not sure we sparged correctly. Here's what we did: After the conversion we added about about 2 gallons of 170 F water to a Zap- Ap (Bucket w/ holes in a bucket type) lauter tun. We spooned in the mash from the Brew Kettle being certain that the water was always above the grain. When all of the mash was in the lauter tun, we sprinkled the remaining sparge water on top. We opened up the spigot on the bottom bucket and let the wort flow out. When all of the wort was filtered through the grains we had about 5 1/2 gallons. The mash used 10 lbs grain, and the wort had a 1.048 SG. We placed this on the stove and boiled. I have recently aquired a 48 qt cooler to use as a mash and lauter tun, so I will no longer need transfer the mash. Also, I've heard a lot about sparging slowly lately, so I'll go slower next time. I'm soon to brew again, but would like more info on sparge techniques. Does the above procedure sound reasonable? Does the wort get run through the lauter tun a second (or third) time to extract more of the sugar? Does all of the sparge water get added to the grain at once? Do I need to try to keep the sparge water hot throughout the process to stop conversion or ease extraction of the sugars? Am I missing anything? Better Living through Brewing, Pete Oehler GE CR&D Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 92 20:57:42 EDT From: jwilliam at uhasun.hartford.edu (John Williams) Subject: trouble with a roto keg Hi I have a question for anyone with experience with Roto kegs. I got a spherical one for my birthday. It had a strong plastic smell like it had been closed up for a long time. I followed the directions for sterilizing and getting rid of the odor; 24 hour soak in a strong TSP solution. I did not smell the plastic odor when I rinsed it out; so I put 5 gallons of I.P.A. in to ferment. I just tasted it tonight and the beer tastes fine except for a pronounced plastic taste. So I have two questions. Is there any hope for the beer now in the keg? Will the taste go away or get stronge? If not, I'll just pitch it to experience. Secondly, how do you get the smell out of the keg? It will work great for me once it stops ruining the beer. Thanks in advance for the ade. John Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 92 17:49:27 CDT From: caa at com2serv.c2s.mn.org (Charles Anderson) Subject: First All grain, Low Yield I made my first attempt at an All-Grain brew yesterday using a simple recipe from Cat's Meow 2, which was 8lbs of British Pale, 1lb of British Crystal, 3oz Fuggles, and 1oz of Willamette. I mashed for 90mins w/2.25 gals in my electrim-bin, and I had a hell of a time getting the temp to stay constant at 150. This was a single step infusion mash, I think my temps varied from about 145 to 160, with various hot spots around the heating element. I'm not sure how long the sparge ran, about an hour maybe with 4.5 gals, of water that I started with at about 170, but by the time I was done had probably cooled to 140 or so. After boiling 60mins I had about 4-4.5 gallons (should I have sparged more?) and a SG of 1.040. After sparging the grains at the top of the grain bed were still pretty sweet while the ones in the middle were not. My questions are how do you keep the temp consistant, and is it really important to keep it exactly on target? I stirred every 10 mins or so, and for a while it stayed at around 150 maybe the first 1/2 hour, then it cooled off, and I cranked up the temp some to try to get it to recover. Should my sparge water be boiling when I start, TCJOHB says 170, does it matter? When it was all done it looked kind of cloudy, but smelled great. I'm not worrying, just wondering, trying to make my next batch better. -Charlie - -- /-Charles-Anderson-\ | caa at c2s.mn.org \------------------/ | Com Squared Systems, voice (612) 452-9522 The rose goes in front | 1285 Corporate Center Drive fax (612) 452-3607 big guy -Crash Davis | Suite 170 | Eagan, MN 55121 (I speak for myself) Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #913, 06/30/92