HOMEBREW Digest #936 Tue 28 July 1992

Digest #935 Digest #937

		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

  use of kegs (CCAC-LAD) <wboyle at PICA.ARMY.MIL>
  hops,beetles,comments (Russ Gelinas)
  PET bottles, dishwashers, overnight brewing ("Deborah Poirier")
  Flame (Bob Gorman)
  brewpub information (taylor)
  Bacteria Problem?? (Joe Rolfe)
  Confusion ("Rad Equipment")
  S delbrukii identification (Dennis J. Templeton)
  Water (G.A.Cooper)
  Priming with honey (Guy D. McConnell)
  Re: ESP/culturing/malehops (Richard Stueven)
  Re: Buffalo Confusion (Richard Stueven)
  What I've Learned... ("Mr. Pete")
  THREADing for the Mac (Chris McDermott)
  Set Mashes (Jack Schmidling)
  Georgia Micro Request (Norm Hardy)
  Oatmeal Stout (G.A.Cooper)
   (Michael Gildner)
  Mashing and Lauter Tun (Thomas D. Feller)
  hops problem & hops question (Carl West)
  Miller's New Book & BOMC (Jim Grady)
  S..l..o...w ferment - in need of advice (gkushmer)
  Arnoldus and Gambrinus (C.R. Saikley)
  Re: Raw Meat???? (P. Couch)
  re. isolating S. delbrueckii (Michael Biondo)
  Follow-up on my comments re: Gorman (ZLPAJGN)
  Mead from Micah Millspaw (BOB JONES)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 9:46:49 EDT From: William Boyle (CCAC-LAD) <wboyle at PICA.ARMY.MIL> Subject: use of kegs I remember some time back somebody mentioned they fermented in a 5 gal keg. If anybody has tried this could you please post the advantages/disadvantages of doing this, and any tips or hints on doing this (if you think it's a good idea). B^2 Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 10:21:54 -0400 (EDT) From: R_GELINAS at UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas) Subject: hops,beetles,comments A friend of has a Cascade (we think) hops plant with what we guessed to be 6+ oz. of cones on it. My Cascade has maybe 1 oz. We live about 2 miles apart. He allowed the plant to have some 12 shoots; I only let mine have 4, as states common wisdom. Now I wonder about that wisdom. There are other factors which effected our yields (different age plants, different soils and sun exposure), but I'm wondering just why it's supposedly best to allow only 3-4 shoots. Any hops experts have the answer? Thanks for the info on Japanese-Beetle-killing bacteria; I'll look into that. My lawn also happens to have grubs.....wonder if there's a connection. That's lots of wondering, also about this Bob/Jack/et.al. discussion. I thought it was already common knowledge on the HBD that's Jack's "world's greatest beer" was really not; that Jack himself admitted it was overhopped and was just "the beer that was ready" for the conference. So when Jack talks of his WGB I always take it to be tongue-in-cheek and self-deprecating. If I've read Jack correctly over the past few months, I don't doubt he enjoys jabbing with his WGB comments because he knows how much it aggravates some of you! My final comment on this, and it applies to many other things on this list as well, is to lighten up. We all want to make the best beverages possible, and making beer can and does involve complicated scientific issues, but, hey, we're making *Beer*, not looking for an AIDS vaccine. So, relax........ Russ Return to table of contents
Date: MON, 27 Jul 92 10:49:36 EDT From: "Deborah Poirier" <POIRIER at INRS-ENER.UQuebec.CA> Subject: PET bottles, dishwashers, overnight brewing from: poirier at inrs-ener.uquebec.ca Hello fellow fizzicists! Well today's posting on 1 liter plastic soda bottles was quite a surprise to me, since I assumed EVERYBODY used them! I guess it's a Canadian thing, but worth trying, IMHO, since they come in good sizes (1 and .5 liter) and you don't have to wash labels off. BUT the best reason to use at least a few of them per batch is that you can squeeze them to see how your carbonation is coming along. For impatient types like myself, they're great. To quote a brewing buddy, when it's hard, it's ready. :) Now I have two questions: 1. do many of you use your dishwashwers to sanitize bottles and hoses? I do, with extra hot water and I slosh in a few glugs of bleach midway along. No problems so far, but is this the safest way to go? Would "sparkleen" or just regular dishwashing detergent work better? 2. the other night, late into the sparge, I decided to abandon ship and go to bed, leaving 6 gallons of wort in pots on the stove (no heat), which I boiled and hopped the next morning when I was feeling perkier. So far it has fermented uneventfully, and I found it quite pleasant to split the brewtime into parts. AM I IN TROUBLE NOW??? Thanks for any advice. Deb Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 10:41:37 EDT From: bob at rsi.com (Bob Gorman) Subject: Flame Oops! That post about Jack's beer did not come out as intended, not even a little bit satirical. This will teach me to post while in a really foul mood, such a post is out of character for me and is unexceptable. The only thing to do from here is to apologize, in public. So, I'd like to apologize, first to Jack. Sorry Jack, don't let my harsh opinions stop you from enjoying your brewing career. Second to the readership of the HBD for having me start up such a bad thread. Third to the entire homebrew community for dragging the art of homebrewing into the gutter. Fourth to all the homebrewers who know me personally, for acting like such a shmuck. Last to everyone who's gone through the effort to reply to those comments. Sorry. With that done, I'd like to ask people to stop trying to castrate me on the HBD, and send all hate mail direct to me. I had intended to get this post out last Friday, I hope it gets published reasonably soon. -- Bob Gorman Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 11:14:30 EDT From: taylor at e5sb.osdhw.syr.ge.com (taylor) Subject: brewpub information I'm taking a trip to TAMPA/SARASOTA FL area second week in Aug. can anybody give me any information about brewpubs in this area? Also I'm from upper NY state does anybody know of any brewpubs in this area? I would appreciate any info. All this talk of bottles, I just go down to the local distributor and pay 5 cent apiece for grolsh flip tops and clean them in the dish washer, they work fine. haven't notice any skunky taste..... One more question what is the main different in using corn sugar and regular house hold sugar for making brew? I've used both, the only different is that it seems to take long for the taste to come out using house hold sugar or maybe its me.. any ideas.......... Todd Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 11:06:20 EDT From: Joe Rolfe <jdr at wang.com> Subject: Bacteria Problem?? hi all, whilst labeling my last batches, one of which has been in the bottle over a month ( can drink that fast :) i saw a strange "growth" and film on some but not all bottles. from picking thru the brew book i have it appears to be Acetobacter (milky film on the surface). the bottles in question also have "white spots around the surface of the beer (sorta like ring around the collar). on all bottles of all batches that i have done in the past i remember a slite film on the surface (holding up to a lite and looking from below the surface) but none as obvious as this particular batch. It does not appear like strands or rope (although there seems to be some specs floating around in the volume of the bottle). Seems like i can rule out Lactobacillus. taste seems fair - it was a very bitter batch to begin with and the quality of the hops used was marginal. it does taste a little sour - could not tell if vinegar was the flavor/sourness or not - all i had was cider vinegar not the white (does it matter???). i am going to save one (at least) bottle to look at under a scope, and find some willing soul to look/taste the stuff (any takers??? eastern mass). the batch previous did not show the same problem, and some of the bottles in the same batch are still (looking) ok. the batch after has been in the bottles for only 2 weeks. i do remember a couple of the dreaded fruit flies seem to be hanging around at the time (practical brewer indicates they can cause the problem) for sanitation i have been using B-Brite - but may change. i have now gotten ahold of an idophor concentrate that i will start using and save the b-brite for the cleaner portion of the fermenter and hoses. bottles usually go into clorox (heavy doses) for a primary scrub/soak then rinse. on bottling day another soak in clorox and jet spray rinse with hot water. the bottling is done by a wand with spring loaded tip, i have noticed in the past quite a bit of splashing in the bottom of the bottle until the tip is coverd. i tip the bottle to limit the splashing as much as possible. some questions: How long does the B-Brite remain active as a sanitizer once added to warm-hot waters? how long does it usually take for the various bugs to show up? bug releated to wort, fermentation and packaging where do these bacteria ususally come from? any one looked at the surface and seen this film? could it be from having a fermentation going (ale) and this film be the so called skin that appears during primary after the rocky foam head falls?? any one out there with some inputs?? thanks in advance joe rolfe Return to table of contents
Date: 24 Jul 92 11:57:59 U From: "Rad Equipment" <rad_equipment at rad-mac1.ucsf.EDU> Subject: Confusion Subject: Confusion Time:9:47 AM Date:7/24/92 >From Digest #932: >Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 09:13:30 PDT >From: gak at wrs.com (Richard Stueven) >Subject: Re: HefeweiBbier in CA >Mike McNally said: >> All I can say is that the Hefeweizen from Twenty Tank was >> even worse. >Everything that Twenty Tank makes is even worse. >Bill Owens may deserve credit for getting the California >microbrewing industry off the ground, but his brewpubs >make uniformly bad beer. >gak Richard; Just what does Mr. Owens have to do with 20 Tank? He has no affiliation with the Martin brothers that I am aware of. While the beer at 20 Tank is generally on the sweet side and hopped less than I prefer, I have never had one there which I would have called infected or seriously flawed. They currently have an IPA running which is very pleasant. I must admit that I gave the hefe-weizen a miss based on the comments here in the Digest. RW... Russ Wigglesworth CI$: 72300,61 |~~| UCSF Medical Center Internet: Rad Equipment at RadMac1.ucsf.edu |HB|\ Dept. of Radiology, Rm. C-324 Voice: 415-476-3668 / 474-8126 (H) |__|/ San Francisco, CA 94143-0628 Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 12:03:59 -0400 From: djt2 at po.CWRU.Edu (Dennis J. Templeton) Subject: S delbrukii identification In response to Chuck about how to identify S. delbrukii, I summarize below an experiment I wrote up here a few months ago: I bought a pack of wyeast 3056 bavarian wheat (about 1 month outdated when I finally opened it) and streaked the contents on malt agar plates. there were numerous colonies that largely looked the same... Chuck is right that both spacing of the colonies and their genetic identity will determine their size on the first plate. Most of the colonies were pale cream white; about 1% or less was more grayish and smaller. I picked a dozen to a fresh plate, making 3mm streaks with a sterile toothpick for each. The color difference was retained, but the size difference was not imressive. After a month on the plate, though, one of the colony types was more "wrinkled"-- I think it was the creamy one, but I can't recall now and my notes are at home. Then I made up a dozen "starters" with DME in water... no hops, and sterilized them. After innoculation with the individual colonies, they all fermented vigorously. I tasted each at 2 weeks, and the taste was consistent with the colony type: The abundant creamy colonies made an estery somewhat sweet product that was "weissbier-like" I concluded that these were S. delbrukii. The rare gray-ish colonies made a very dry product with no discernable ester flavor. I think these were the S. cerevisciae. By this analysis the packet of wyeast was 99% delbrukii, and less than 1% cerevisciae, but note that my packet was outdated. I think your chances of picking a delbrukii at random is pretty good, if you taste a test culture. After I posted this, a couple of folks wrote that they use pure delbrukii cultures in their weissbiers, and this is what I've done in the last couple of batches. I'm very satisfied with this approach. good luck... dennis Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 17:07:47 +0100 From: G.A.Cooper at qmw.ac.uk Subject: Water There was so much activity recently that I avoided sending anything to HBD, but it seems to have gone quieter. I have no objections to free offers, but could I request that future ones chose a small integer such as 10 or 15 rather that 100. It might reduce the sudden overload of information that is too much for my limited brain. But in passing I noticed a few items that were worth a comment, some of which I make now. Apologies if these have been dealt with already. Joe Rolfe HBD 922: > - my water is soften with a salt based softner... If this is a standard domestic water softener that needs 'recharging' by the addition of common salt, then don't use it for brewing liquor. I am not a chemist, but I am told that these softeners do not reduce the amount of salts in solution, but change them. For example Calcium Carbonate is converted to Sodium Carbonate (or should they be bicarbonate?). The sodium salts are 'soft' to the extent that they don't form a scum when used with soaps/detergents, don't precipitate when heated and don't form (chalk) deposits on heating elements etc. That is they are 'soft' as far as the washing machine and dish washer are concerned. They are not soft in the way the brewer needs their liquor. In fact you now have a liquor still having carbonate ions (high pH) that are not as easily removed, and you have increased the sodium content (not good if you have a dicky ticker). John Freeborg also HB 922: >How many all-grain people adjust their sparge water pH? I've been reading about putting lactic acid in the sparge water to achieve the proper pH which helps improve extraction numbers. There have been a number of replies to this one, so I shall just add that if you are making pale ales, bitters etc then dilute (food grade) sulfuric acid might be preferable to lactic acid (if you are using acids rather gypsum). There are times when I might even consider using dilute HCl. Geoff Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 11:23:36 CDT From: guy at mspe5.b11.ingr.com (Guy D. McConnell) Subject: Priming with honey As another data point, I have primed a few batches with honey and I have been very pleased with the results. Contrary to what someone (sorry, can't remember who) posted recently, and to what I myself thought, it does *not* take longer to carbonate your beer than corn sugar. I find that it takes just about the same amount of time. I have also primed with saved gyle, my favorite method, and it does seem to take a little longer to carbonate. I very rarely use corn sugar to prime with any more. - -- Guy McConnell guy at mspe5.b11.ingr.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 09:34:41 PDT From: gak at wrs.com (Richard Stueven) Subject: Re: ESP/culturing/malehops In HBD #932, I boldly asserted: >The Pale Bock is the only filtered Sierra Nevada beer. ...besides Summerfest, I mean. (Oops.) gak 107/H/3&4 Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 09:39:48 PDT From: gak at wrs.com (Richard Stueven) Subject: Re: Buffalo Confusion In HBD #933, C.R. Saikley sez to me: >There seems to be some confusion here. Bill Owens is not connected to >20 Tank. He has founded 3 brewpubs. [...details deleted...] I'll trust C.R.'s information before my own. Sorry for the confusion. gak 107/H/3&4 Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 92 20:15:51 EDT From: "Mr. Pete" <ENM09857%UDELVM.BITNET at VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU> Subject: What I've Learned... Dear Fellow Brewers; I just read my latest HBD (the # escapes me now), and decided to put in my two cents' worth. I have been brewing off-and-on for about 6 years now, and looking back, the most important thing that I've learned is that we should ALWAYS be having fun doing whatever we do, brewing, loving, and living!! I've learned this after much labor in my various occupations, one of which was as an assistant brewer at a well-known microbrewery (now I think it's almost a regional) in Oregon. During my brief tenure there, one of the things that struck me is that, the process is the same, the ingredients are the same, the work a little more hectic, and as always, the _possibility_ for worry the same. The interesting thing though, is that we were usually too busy to worry about things because of the amount of work to be done. And not that it would help any either! Granted, the water we were using was as pure as the driven snow (as a matter-of-fact, it did come from a glacier), the yeast we were using came from WYEAST, hops from the best hop yards around, and malt from Great Western just down the river a bit. This isn't to say that no other brewery didn't use the same stuff, but you get the idea: Use the best ingredients you can---if your water is drinkable, then it should be okay; try to use liquid yeast if possible (it makes a BIG difference); hops are hops, but make sure they're _fresh_. Regarding malts, a lot of HBDers use extracts, so I think I won't say any more 'bout that. As you can see, I have a tendency to get long-winded. I guess what I really want to say is use the HBD to exchange ideas and opinions, but keeping comments _constructive_. The recent string of disparaging remarks made me wince and hope that I would have a little more cooth (sp?), lest one of my beers not be to someone's liking. Well, I suppose I better get back to my insects. Maybe next time my brain won't be so fried (thesis time) and I'll be more organized. Thanks, Mr. Pete P.S. If you're ever in Hood River, ask for a Full Sail. Return to table of contents
Date: 27 Jul 1992 12:44:44 -0500 From: Chris McDermott <mcdermott at draper.com> Subject: THREADing for the Mac THREADing for the Mac For all you Mac users in HbD land who can't use Tom Kaltenbachs, reportedly excellent, program for doing searches through back digest on PCs: I use a program call BBEdit, the bare-bones editor. This is FREE program that is not only an excelent TEXT editor, but it also can do disk based file searches for text strings. The strings can be specified as just a plain string or as a regular expression (a la grep). I leave it as an exercise for the reader to discover the other neat features of this program. BBEdit is availible via anonymous FTP from sumex-aim.stanford.edu archived as /info-mac/app/bbedit-213.hqx in binhexed compact pro format. It is, alternatively availible from other archives mirroring the info-mac archive, such as wuarchive.wustl.edu. Standard disclaimers apply. /Chris - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Christopher K. McDermott mcdermott at draper.com (617) 258-2362 Charles Stark Draper Laboratory, Inc. 555 Technology Square, Cambridge, MA 02149 (USA) Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 11:28 CDT From: arf at ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling) Subject: Set Mashes mailx -s "MICROMASHING" homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com To: Homebrew Digest Fm: Jack Schmidling Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 11:40:17 CDT >From: bliss at csrd.uiuc.edu (Brian Bliss) >I don't know how to define "set", though, so put it this way: A normal sparge for me takes 2 hours. Multiply by 1.5 if wheat malt was used, or 2.5 if it made up 50% of the grist. Multiply by .6 when using < 7 lbs of grain (this is rare for me). Never having had one, I can only guess. I presume it means that the wort stops flowing. If one thinks of the mash as starchy, sugary glue, reinforced with husks, the importance of maintaining as high a temperature as possible, consistant with not ruining the beer, becomes obvious. When you let glue cool, it sets. >I suspect that your use of the Maltmill has quite a bit to do avoiding set mashes. I would love to agree with you but I still think it is temp. But that is what this poll is all about. Let's hear from more people with set mashes. > I see now that the Malt Shop in WI is offering a "Maltmill" for $99. Is this the one and only? Shonuff. >Maybe this fall I'll get one, but for now, I'm trying to figure out how to produce enough beer for my own consumption with the least amount of effort possible. This means using exracts only, making the least amount of mess possible, and I'm trying to get a Firestone keg system together. I'm sick of putting in a 12-hr brew day, followed by an hour or two extra cleanup of the kithen the next day, followed by..... People love poking fun of my "window screen mash tun" aka Easymash but I have it down to about 5 or 6 hours now and there is only one kettle to clean up. >From: bob at rsi.com (Bob Gorman) >This remark I can not leave untouched. I tasted some of that beer. It was a terrible brew, infected, astringent and unbalanced. I wouldn't be so crude as to post the comments of George Fix here but I think most of us who have read them probably give his a little more credibility. > As one conference goer stated: "How fitting it's served in urine sample cups.". For those not familiar with the rules, the contract for exhibit space specifies that beer samples be served in glasses with a capacity of three ounces or less. I was simply following the rules. js Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 08:22:13 PDT From: polstra!norm at uunet.UU.NET (Norm Hardy) Subject: Georgia Micro Request A quick question as to the state of the micros in the fine state of Georgia. I would appreciate any private replies; especially concerning thoses breweries in the area in and around Atlanta. Thanks Norm Hardy Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 18:45:51 +0100 From: G.A.Cooper at qmw.ac.uk Subject: Oatmeal Stout There have been requests for oatmeal stout recipes. Try this one from the second edition of the Durden Park 'Old British Beers' book by John Harrison. It is based upon Maclay's 63/- Oatmeal Stout brewed in 1909 (Maclay's was a Scottish brewery, and 63/- means 63 shillings). The OG should be around 46. "A chewy, satisfying stout" Ingredients per imperial gallon (*see footnote): 1.25 lb Pale Malt 2 oz Amber Malt 4 oz Black Malt 0.75 lb Breakfast Oats 1 oz Goldings The oats should be good old-fashioned (Quaker) breakfast oats. Amber malt in this recipe means a 'speciality' grain roasted to a colour of around 70 EBC (somebody out there can convert that to lovibond) - should be a roasted grain not a pale crystal malt. You can work out your own prefered method if you wish, but how about: Mix the oats with 2 (imperial) pints boiling water and stand for 10 mins before mixing with the malts. Stiff mash at 155 F for 3 hours then mash out for 30 mins at 170 F. Boil for 1.5 hours (all the hops). Dry hop if you wish. (c) copyright reserved - so don't go putting this into other books without asking permission! * the footnote: Q. If US pint is 16 fl oz, and imperial pint is 20 fl oz, why is it that 1 US gallon is not 4/5 of imperial gallon? A. We cannot agree what volume 1 oz water occupies. 1 US fl oz = 29.574ml 1 imperial fl oz = 28.41ml. Therefore 1 US gallon = 5/6 imperial gallon (approx) I suppose you all knew that already. Geoff - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Geoff Cooper Phone: +44 (0)71 975 5178 Computing Services Fax: +44 (0)71 975 5500 QMW e-mail: G.A.Cooper at uk.ac.qmw Mile End Road London, E1 4NS Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 07:42:02 EDT From: mmlai!lucy!gildner at uunet.UU.NET (Michael Gildner) Subject: harvesting hops Hello, I am reposting this simple question since it got lost in the "Digest Marathon" earlier this month. My question concerns harvesting hops. Is it standard practice to wash the cone after harvesting and drying or will rinsing wash away the good stuff? The reason I ask is that after drying and freezing my first harvest I noticed some small bugs or spiders in the bag. I'll probably rinse them before I use the hops or else I'll end up making "Spider Ale". Mike Gildner Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 10:38:20 PDT From: thomasf at deschutes.ico.tek.com (Thomas D. Feller) Subject: Mashing and Lauter Tun First an opinion to go with all the others, I also think that Bob Gorman attack was too much for the HBD, I just don't like to read this stuff. I am not a big fan of Jack, I think a lot of his info is bunk but his also has his good points too. As far as the HBD goes lets just talk about things related to brewing and leave the personal stuff some where else. Now for a real question, I am now building a cooler lauter tun and need some help. I bought a 5 gal. round cooler which I think should be large enough for up to 8 lbs of grain. I am going to use a single step mash at 150-155F and sparge out at 170-175F. So, 1. To make my filter I am going to use copper pipe with hole or slit cut into to the bottom, which is better? How about Jacks EASYMASH (yes I would love to hear from Jack about this) what kind of screen does it use. Al. or Plastic? Should I solder the conections? 2. How do I connect the copper pipe filter network to my valve? Should I use the spring loaded valve that comes with the cooler or would it be better to use some other type of valve? Please reply to me directly and I'll let everyone know what works for me, Tom Feller thomasf at vice.ico.tek.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 12:11:31 EDT From: eisen at kopf.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Carl West) Subject: hops problem & hops question Ok, so the vine got tall, and the top half is covered with cones that will be ready soon. The Problem: Some of the cones have grown so large and close together that something has taken up residence between them. I know this because there's some spiderwebby-looking stuff in there. Maybe it's bugs, maybe it's fungus. I figure if it's a fungus those cones are trash, but if it's bugs I may be able to clean off the outside, do a little `internal inspection' and maybe keep them if they look OK on the inside. Good idea? Bad idea? I'm gonna need to dry these hops, I don't have enough to make it worth building a dryer (maybe next year :) so I figure on just spreading 'em out on some screens and waiting a few days. The Question: Sunlight will skunk beer. The compound that gets skunked is from the hops. How come the hops don't get skunked on the vine? I assume that skunking only happens when the hop compounds are mixed with other beer compounds and _then_ struck by the appropriate color of light. I expect no problem with sun-drying my hops, am I wrong? Carl WISL,BM. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 8:49:49 EDT From: Jim Grady <jimg at hpwalq.wal.hp.com> Subject: Miller's New Book & BOMC Are any other HBD subscribers members of Book-of-the-Month Club? This month's mailing is offering Dave Miller's new book, "Brewing the World's Great Beers" for $8.50 + 2 dividend credits. Thought you would like to know if you have not seen it already. - -- Jim Grady |"The significant problems we face cannot be solved Internet: jimg at wal.hp.com | at the same level of thinking we were at when we Phone: (617) 290-3409 | created them." | Albert Einstein Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 14:33:17 EDT From: gkushmer at Jade.Tufts.EDU Subject: S..l..o...w ferment - in need of advice About a week ago I went out and made up a batch of wort for Pale Ale. For yeast I used 1056 American Ale Yeast (liquid). This was the first time I had used their new packaging since the eruption days of past, and when the package hadn't visibly swelled after two days of culturing, I thought it might be more from the packaging than the contents within. Come pitching time, I snipped open the package, hearing a little CO2 release, and then threw it in the wort - shaking the carboy vigorously. After a few days of nothingness, I called the shop and got a replacement yeast package (same brand). This time, the culture turned the package into a pregnant cow and I pitched, aerated, and hoped. The next morning, there was some activity, but not an awful lot. 24 hours later, there was nothing much going on. This wort has never seen high krausen and I was very careful in all of my procedures. What I need to know is: would yeast nutrient help at this stage? What should I do if the yeast doesn't take off? Should I re-pitch again? Is there a chance that there was something toxic in the original package that might be killing off the yeast? This is becoming a bit troublesome! Any help or advice would be appreciated. BTW, I forgot to take an OG reading, so I can't really compare the rate of progress (readings have never phased me much anyway.) Cheers, - --gk Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 11:23:47 PDT From: grumpy!cr at uunet.UU.NET (C.R. Saikley) Subject: Arnoldus and Gambrinus From: Jay Hersh <hersh at expo.lcs.mit.edu> >Ahem, not to refute your thoroughly interesting article on the breweries >of Bruge, C.R., but the Czech name Gambrinus as the patron saint of brewers. >Anyone got the low down, will the REAL patron saint of brewers please >stand up??? Glad you found the story interesting. The confusion here seems to be coming from your assumption that there is a single, bona fide, universally accepted patron saint of brewers, and that all others are apocryphal. This is simply not the case. In Belgium, the patron saint of brewers is Saint Arnoldus, Arnold the Strong of Oudenaarde. He invoked god to create more beer after an Abbey in Flanders collapsed in the 11th century. Images of Saint Arnoldus can be found watching over breweries throughout Belgium today. If he isn't REALLY the patron saint of brewers, no one bothered to tell the Belgians, and they don't seem to care. Gambrinus is a legendary figure in many European brewing nations. One version of his story depicts him as Czech. (Maybe you could tell us this version, Jay) The Belgians have their own Gambrinus as well. He is considered the original "King of Beer", this of course being prior to the wonderful products of mass media and Anheuser Busch. The name "Gambrinus" is thought to derive from Jan Primus. Jan I was duke of Antwerp, Brabant, and Louvain in the 13th century. Among other things, he is credited with having introduced the toast as social custom. In reference to Gambrinus, Jackson claims, "The King of Beer was most probably a Belgian, though he can be spotted all over Europe." Beer and brewing are integrally intertwined with the history, religion, social customs, etc. of many European nations. Therefore, it should come as no surprise that there are many tales of saints and kings of various lands performing beery miracles, introducing social customs, or simply drinking alot! Moreover, this richness makes the history of brewing far more interesting, even if exact historical accuracy is blurred. A toast to Gambrinus and Saint Arnoldus, CR Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 12:32:56 PDT From: ithaca!amber!phoebe at uunet.UU.NET (P. Couch) Subject: Re: Raw Meat???? >1/2# raw meat ^^^^ - What kind of Meat? Raw hamburger? Is it a kind of yeast nutrient? :) :) :) >Date: 24 Jul 1992 22:24:42 -0400 (EDT) >From: Neal.Raisman at UC.Edu (Neal A Raisman) >Subject: scrumpy > > This is a recipe for a strong British cider called scrumpy. > It is really strong. One glass and the world begins to glow. > A second glass, makes it all go. > > 12# of mixed apples. Be sure they are clean and with no > belmishes > 1/2# raisins > 1/2# raw meat > 1 gal. water at 70 degrees > tradition calls for bakers yeast but I recommend a > champagne yeast > > Chop all ingredients. Then grind the apples and raisins. A > food processor is helpful. Toss the ingredients into the > water and stir. Add the yeast and seal the brew bucket with > an airlock. Each day, stir the ingredients by swirling the > ingredients in the closed bucket. After the first fermenta- > tion slows, about 8-10 days, move to a secondary fermenter. > If you like a dry cider, add a second dose of yeast to the > secondary fermenter. Seal with an airlock. Let sit until it > the fermentation slows to a very slow, almost imperceptable > bubble. Move to a carboy to get out more of the particulates. > Let it sit for about a week and bottle. > > The scrumpy will need to mature for about four months before > you will want to even try it since it will give off a strong >D unpleasant smell and almost vinegary taste. The longer it is > allowed to mature, the better, smoother and drier it will get. > > It is wonderful served cold when mature. I have let it sit > for a year and it is quqite fine. > > No fancy sign off here. Neal Raisman raismana at ucunix.san.uc.edu >D > and unpleasant smell and have an almost vinegary staste > Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 15:37:26 CDT From: michael at wupsych.wustl.edu (Michael Biondo) Subject: re. isolating S. delbrueckii Fellow homebrewer and HBD-er, Tim Fahrner (MILBRANDT_J at wums.wustl.edu) recently isolated S. delbrueckii from Wyeast 3056 with great results. Basically, he plated out the 3056 and innoculated small starters, each with an isolated colony from the plate. The starters were incubated and final identification was done by smell and taste. All the delbrueckii starters all had that distinctive cloviness in the taste and smell. One of the delbrueckii starters was then streaked to a new plate. I received a slant from that plate and subsequently brewed a weizen patterned loosely after Dave Miller's recipe. I followed his mashing schedule and also took his suggestion to use a yeast energizer. Well, the effort turned out a final product that was exactly what I was looking for - a lot of, almost mouth-puckering, cloviness. OG: 1.044 FG: 1.012 I have subsequently streaked a second plate using the yeast from the secondary of the above batch. My plan is take an isolated colony from that plate to brew the next batch. I thought it might be interesting to see if an isolated colony from a yeast of a prior batch would yield any difference in flavor ie. more cloviness. Opps, sorry for getting off on a tangent - just wanted really to pass along another possible method of isolation and identification of S. delbrueckii. Good Luck... Mike Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 16:20 CDT From: ZLPAJGN%LUCCPUA.bitnet at UICVM.UIC.EDU Subject: Follow-up on my comments re: Gorman Dear brewers, To all who responded both privately and in the HBD, I wish to thank you for both the support for my position, and for some points well taken about contributing to / participating in issues which are essentially periferal to the jist of this forum in the first place. (How's that for an opening sentence?!) To start, judging from the responses I received, there was nearly unanimous agreement that criticisms such as Gorman's do little to promote and further our mutual interest in homebrewing. But then again, judging from those same responses, Jack's comments don't help much either... I have been reading this forum sinse the first part of this year, and have been aware of the various controversies that seem to follow Jack around. (Indeed, when I had only just subscribed to this SIG, I thought that Jack was running for some public office, or something!) I remember the Schmidling-Frane flame sessions over dry vs. liquid yeast - an all together healthy debate, until it occasionally stoopped into ad hominum attacks. I also remember that many on the forum grew tired of the bickering, and either cancelled their subscriptions, or pleaded for it to be carried on via e-mail and leave the net to discussion and constructive criticism. So, I was not unaware of "arf," nor unwittingly defending his ego. I was, rather, calling for such attacks like Gorman's - and like those Jack has made in the past (and will undoubtedly make again) - to more tasteful, and less tackless. However, in posting my own criticism, I was engaging in the very thing I was attacking, as some of the other responses pointed out. With respect to those brewers, may I say that that was a point well taken. Perhaps the best way to aviod more flame sessions surrounding the postings from those who don't know jack schmidling about brewing is to either ignore their pomposity (?) or to take it off the net. So, while I continue to feel that Gorman's tact was an insult to the idea of constructive criticism - even in Jack's case - I must agree that my own objections probably helped to fuel the "flames" rather than quell them. For this alone I express my regrets to those on the net who would rather not deal with such drivol. Cheers (isn't this what it's all about anyway!!?): John Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 14:40 PDT From: BOB JONES <BJONES at NOVAX.llnl.gov> Subject: Mead from Micah Millspaw This article has been posted before but there have recently been a lot of mead questions on the HBD and some of the info here may be of use. What ever other mead type questions are left post them and I take a shot at em. PS I've made a lot of mead. WASSAIL Micah Millspaw 7/22/92 The oldest of beverages, the newest of techniques. High tech has come to mead making. Because of the commitment of time involved, many people are quite hesitant about getting into mead making. Generally it takes less equipment and the ingredients are cheaper than those needed for brewing. Someone who is extract brewing is already covered (equipment wise) to be a mead maker. To the veteran mead makers out there, you know the time and effort (mostly time) spent on a mead can be exceptionally rewarding. On the other hand something could go wrong and unnoticed for a year or more and that can be very disappointing. The amount of time we put into a mead can make the loss seem much worse than the loss of a batch of beer. It is also possible to radically reduce the length of time it takes to produce a consumable mead/ melomel/ methiglin. Let us consider some ways of reducing or eliminating the chance of disaster striking your mead. These efforts should also shorten the fermentation time. Meads are known to have long, slow fermentation times (1-4 months is common). This long term ferment tends to tie up a carboy that might be used more productively (for beer maybe?). The reason that mead takes a long time to ferment out is that honey is woefully lacking in the nutrients that yeast needs to effectively metabolize the mead wort. The cure is to add yeast nutrients. Yeasts like ammonium salts, these are those little white crystals available at most homebrew shops. These will do the job of sustaining the yeast, but there are some nasty side effects. If too much of the ammonia salt crystals are used, their taste and aroma will remain in your mead(yuk). The only way to get rid of the ammonia taste/smell is to age it out, this often takes years. Fortunately there are better yeast nutrients. The best that I have used so far is bacto nitrogen base yeast nutrient from DIFCO. This nutrient is available from pharmaceutical and laboratory supply houses. The difco has no flavour/ aroma side effects but is rather expensive, the plus is, a small amount will do lot. Detailed information for amounts to use should be provided when you purchase the nutrient. Recently a yeast nutrient for meads became available from Great Fermentations of Santa Rosa which they claim will ferment out a mead in three weeks at 70 degrees F. I have used this nutrient several times and have found that if the temperature is maintained it is possible to ferment out in three to four weeks. This nutrient is reasonably priced and is easy to get. Having addressed the need for yeast nutrients, it is a good idea to have some yeast to go with them. Liquid culture wine and champ- agne yeasts of high quality are easily obtainable. Many dried yeasts are also of interest to the mead maker. One for the most important features of a yeast to the mead maker is alcohol survivability. Meads in general and especially high gravity meads have alcohol levels far exceding that of most beers. Prise de mousse (S. bayanus) and Pasteur champagne(S. cerevisae) are excellent for traditional and high original gravity meads. Epernay, a wine yeast is very complimentary to melomels(fruit meads). Most wine yeasts are entirely adequate for mead making. Try a few different ones if your looking for something unique in flavour. It is possible to use ale or lager yeasts (I've tried both) to ferment mead, but I've been less satisfied with the results (flavour) when compared to meads made with wine or champagne yeasts. Some mead makers like to use "killer yeasts",these are identi- fied by the letter K preceding a name or number. The killer yeasts work well in conjunction with other saccromyces yeasts. The "killers" function is to eliminate competing wild yeasts. It is not normally necessary to use this type of yeast unless you choose not to boil your mead wort. (the not boiling is part of an ancient process and will not be discussed here) It is important to prepare a yeast starter so as to have enough yeast ferment your mead. As there is a great deal of information available about making yeast starters, I'll not go over it much. The only suggest- ion that I will give is to use confectioners sugar instead of dry malt extract in your starter, this removes the chance of strange flavours in traditional meads. I use 1/4 cup sugar to one quart water and 1/4 tsp of yeast nutrient in my starters. The properly prepared yeast in conjunction with the essential yeast nutrients should result in a vigorous 3-4 week ferment. It is important to allow adequate headspace in the fermenter and the blow off method is recommended. After your mead has reached the desired specific gravity, it should be racked into a soda keg. Kegging the mead gives you control over carbonation levels and oxygen exposure problems. It is also possible to arrest the fermentation at a desired point by kegging and sub-micron filtration. I have had good luck adding fruit concentrates and essences to filtered meads. They are very stable in comparison with bottle conditioned fruit meads. A clean soda keg should be blanketed with CO2 prior to racking in order limit oxygen exposure. Fermented meads are very susceptible to oxidation. Oxidation will result in some very unsatisfactory flavours in the finished product. Decide if your mead is to be sparkling or still(flat). If the mead is to be still, rack into the keg, put on the lid and seal it with as low a pressure as possible (I recommend filtration). If the mead is to be sparkling I strongly recommend force carbonation. I've found that using " methode champenoise" with mead to be unpredictable and usually unsatisfactory. Rack into the soda keg, seal it then pressure up to 30-40 psi and set it aside for a while. Mead seems to be slow to absorb carbonation (compared to beer) and since mead should improve with reaso- nable aging this will all work out nicely. What to do with a 5 gallon keg of mead? It is possible to put it on draft in your home. The drawback is that the mead, when present in large amounts could overwhelm you. The option is to counter-pressure bottle from the keg. Counter-pressure fillers should allow you to purge the bottle with CO2 prior to filling. Removing the normal atmosphere from the bottle is absolutely necessary limit oxygen exposure. The mead that you're putting into the bottle should be a finished and stable product and you don't want the oxygen to ruin your efforts. Before bottling, sample the kegged mead to ascertain its cond- itioning; age, carbonation level, etc...Cool the keg of mead down to 35-40 degrees F. so as to improve its ability to hold CO2 in solution. Clean your bottles and fill them up. Enjoy. Micah Millspaw 11/27/91 Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #936, 07/28/92