HOMEBREW Digest #948 Fri 14 August 1992

Digest #947 Digest #949

		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

  Flaked grains ("PAUL EDWARDS")
  Sierra Nevada Porter (Jonathan A. Rodin)
  Headspace (G.A.Cooper)
  RE^2- chillers (Chris McDermott)
  Houston Hotspots (jadams)
  Hop texts ("John L. Isenhour")
  Mashing from Micah Millspaw (BOB JONES)
  Banana esters (Paulaner hefe-weisse) (Aaron Birenboim)
  cider apples (Aaron Birenboim)
  malt prices ("PAUL EDWARDS")
  CO Hops (Aaron Birenboim)
  wheat allergies (mcnally)
  Help for a novice (Karl F. Bloss)
  back to extract (Brian Bliss)
  Re: The Good Ol' Days... (John E. Greene)
  Sassafras (dbehm)
  Re: SmartBrewers, Hydrometers, Flames, and Wheat beer. ( Neil Mager )
  VITIMIN C and sundries (Jack Schmidling)
  Yeast Nutrient (Jay Hersh)
  Head Space, etc . . . (Sam Israelit)
  Has no one used ascorbic acid? (Chuck Coronella)
  Alt or Kolsch Yeast (John Freeborg)
  modified V.S. under modified malts (Roy Styan)
  Explosions and flames (Don Scheidt)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 13 Aug 92 06:58:00 EST From: "PAUL EDWARDS" <8260PE at INDINPLS.NAVY.MIL> Subject: Flaked grains Andy Phillips asks: >And now I have a question: why do unmalted grains such as wheat and >rye have to be gelatinized (cooked) before mashing? I just made a >batch of bitter with 2 lbs of flaked rye, forgot to gelatinize it, >but got a sensible yield: about 85% of the maximum possible. Any >have a hard, scientific explanation for this? Yeas, Andy. Flaked grains are already gelatinized in the "flaking" process (grians are steamed and then rolled) and do not need to be cooked before introducing them into the mash-tun. Raw grains need to crushed/cracked and cooked to break up the starch globules to allow the enzymes gain access. So it sounds like you don't have a problem. More info on the cooking process can be had in books like M&B Science or the Practical Brewer. -- Paul Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 08:32:21 -0400 From: rodin at ftp.com (Jonathan A. Rodin) Subject: Sierra Nevada Porter I have noticed that SN porter is smoother, creamier, better balanced than other porters I have tried (or brewed). Does anyone have a recipe (grain or extract) for a SN porter like brew? Any clues as to how to get that creamy taste? Jon - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jon Rodin ftp Software, Inc. voice: (617) 224-6261 rodin at ftp.com 26 Princess Street fax: (617) 245-7943 Wakefield, MA 01880 Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 14:59:19 +0100 From: G.A.Cooper at qmw.ac.uk Subject: Headspace Jack says: >It seems that there is a very simple solution IF the problem is the O2 in >the headspace. Why not just fill the botle up and leave NO headspace? It depends whether you are concerned about thermal expansion/contraction. That is, beer and glass rates being different and glass being breakable. But I agree with what Jack implies, which I take to be that O2 in the headspace is probably not a problem for bottled conditioned beers. Stay relaxed with the hobby. Remember there isn't much O2 up there, yeast is a good 'scavenger' of O2 whilst growing and it will probably use it all up during the first few days of bottle conditioning anyway. Unless, of course, someone else knows better :-) Happy brewing Geoff - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Geoff Cooper Phone: +44 71 975 5178 Computing Services Fax: +44 71 975 5500 QMW e-mail: G.A.Cooper at uk.ac.qmw Mile End Road London, E1 4NS Return to table of contents
Date: 13 Aug 1992 10:06:09 -0500 From: Chris McDermott <mcdermott at draper.com> Subject: RE^2- chillers RE^2: chillers In #947, Mr de Armond says: > That being said... Mike's calculations suggest that a > siphoning counter-flow cooler would need to use a length ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > over 30' [...] > An immersion cooler will have a higher velocity, since the ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > water is being driven by the mains pressure, rather than a > siphon. Since heat transfer is proportional to velocity, > the tubing lengths would presumably be shorter. First, the siphoning in the counter-flow chiller, under standard operating procedure, refers to the siphoning of the wort through the inner tube of the chiller, not the outer tube through which tap water is driven. So in both cases the coolant is being driven by pressure. Aside, with a long enough siphon you can develop some pretty good pressure. Ever empty a waterbed, on the fourth floor, with a garden hose dropping all the way to the ground? :-) Second, I beleive that the velocity in question is the velocity of the wort relative to the coolant, or cooling element. This leads me to beleive that the wort being siphoned through the counter-flow would have a greater velocity than the wort in which the immersion chiller is immerged. And since the heat transfer rate is proportional to velocity, the tubbing length of the immersion chiller would have to be greater. Of course if you stirred very vigorously, the wort in the pot (immersion) may have a greater velocity. I am the proud owner of a counter-flow chiller that works extremely well (read fast), though I admit is a water hog. I think that each type of chiller has its own points. I love the fact that mine works so fast, but on the other hand, I don't like that it can't leave all that cold-break in the brew-pot, instead of my primary, like an immersion chiller would. While beer will give you that magical bliss, the more you drink the more you ... _ Christopher K. McDermott Internet: mcdermott at draper.com C.S. Draper Laboratory, Inc. Voice: (617) 258-2362 555 Technology Square FAX: (617) 258-1131 Cambridge, MA 02149 (USA) Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 14:25:48 GMT From: jadams at sws.SINet.SLB.COM Subject: Houston Hotspots From: JADAMS at SWS at PSI%HDSRTR at MRGATE at SNMRTR To: "homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com" at M_INTERNET at MRGATE at SNMRTR at SNMRTR We may not have brewpubs (it's called the "Budweiser law") - but we do have pubs that engage in "tap wars". Frontrunners in the tap race are the Brewery Tap in the oldest part of downtown historical district and LeVeau's in the museum district. They each have around 40 to 50 brews on tap. I-10 & Hwy 6 is not exactly happenin' central. The only good place I know of in the vicinity is the Hops House at 2321-A Hwy 6 S., 496-0623. The best places are around Rice University: the Gingerman, Munchies, Churchill's (at the Red Lion Restaurant), McGonigle's Mucky Duck, Crown & Serpent, LeVeau's and several others. All have Sierra Nevada on tap - my minimum requirement. Beer Central is at DeFalco's Home Wine and Beer Supplies, 5611 Morningside, in the Rice Village, 1 mile south of Hwy 59, Greenbriar exit, 1 block west of Greenbriar near University Blvd. Greenbriar borders the campus. Just walk into DeFalco's and ask where you can get a decent beer in this town, and you'll be deluged with suggestions. Their number is 523-8154. Hours are 10-6 M-F, 'til 8 Thurs, plus 10-4 Saturdays. The Foam Rangers Homebrew Club meets the third Friday - 8/21 - it gets pretty wild - there are often other club activities. Call DeFalco's for info. Tell 'em I (John Adams) said "Hi!". I live near the Astrodome + that's the week of the Republican Convention = I'm going diving in the Florida Keys. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 10:32:08 EDT From: "John L. Isenhour" <isenhour at vax001.kenyon.edu> Subject: Hop texts All this talk about hops makes me wanna know more, heres whats currently available 'in print'. This may be redistributed as long as you don't have to pay for it. and with copyright intact. (sorry CI$ readers). Copyright (c) 1987 - 1991 R. R. BOWKER, All rights reserved. Tomlan, Michael A. Tinged with Gold: Hop Culture in the United States. LC 90-46389. (Illus.). 272p. 02/1992. $35.00x. (ISBN 0-8203-1313-0). University of Georgia Press. Filmer, R. Hops & Hop-Picking. 1990. $30.00x. (ISBN 0-685-46678-7, Kent Cty Coun UK). State Mutual Book & Periodical Service, Limited. Beach, David R. Homegrown Hops: An Illustrated How-to-Do-It Manual. LC 88-92165. (Illus.). 108p. (Orig.). 12/1988. Paper. $8.00. (ISBN 0-9621195-0-4). Beach, David R. Lingren, Minnie. Hops Cultivation in Lewis County. 54p. Date not set. Repr. of 1981 ed. Paper. $7.50. (ISBN 0-685-30404-3). Fernwood Press. - John 'de HopDuvel' - isenhour at vax001.kenyon.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 07:39 PDT From: BOB JONES <BJONES at NOVAX.llnl.gov> Subject: Mashing from Micah Millspaw Adding to the mash discusions. I suggested the use of the insulated cooler type mash tun because it can be used with both single temp. infusion mashes and upward step infusion mashes. It is a simple thing to increase the mash temperature by adding more hot water at the time it is needed for the step increase. The mash out can be conducted the same way. This approach to mashing is a part of the gentle mash that can reduce the effects of hot oxygen reactions. By way of explaination, I start the mash fairly tight 20-24oz per lb. and add sufficiently hot water to make the temperature steps I want without exceding 32oz per lb grain to water, for a normal mash. For a first run only mash I use up to 48-50oz per lb. Also no stirring as the hot water is either underlet or sprayed or both at the same time. My mash\lauter tun is loaded with temp. probes and it works very well. I have been mashing in this way for the past four years and have many ribbons to show for it. Also it is easy and I'm lazy. Micah Millspaw 8/12/92 Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 08:39:30 MDT From: abirenbo at rigel.hac.com (Aaron Birenboim) Subject: Banana esters (Paulaner hefe-weisse) I wish to emulate Paulaner hefe-weisse, which has a nice banana/clove flavor when fresh. I have some S. Delbreuckii from wyeast bavarian wheat, but I want some banana too! What would be a good yeast to use (ant ferment temp) for that wonderful smooth paulaner banana flavor. There is a restauraunt nearby which serves paulaner on tap. Is there a snowball's chance in hades that this beer has some active yeast in it which i may want to try and culture? I will be interested weather this is a fermentation yeast or just a non-folocculant finishing yeast. aaron p.s. please move my abirenbo at isis.cs.du.edu account to abirenbo%rigel.cel.scg.hac.com at hac2arpa.hac.com thanks! Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 08:44:10 MDT From: abirenbo at rigel.hac.com (Aaron Birenboim) Subject: cider apples I just moved to a plavce which has an apple and a crab-apple tree. The apple tree should produce some nice, big, red apples. right now they're medium sized and dropping like flies. They are actually edible, but quite tart. Should I try to save these (perhaps by freezing) for cider? Also, can crab-apples be pressed in your usual apple press (i plan to rent one). Is there some measure of acidity by which i can guage my addition of immature and crab-apples. I have no idea of what kind of apples this tree produces, so the cider mixture percentages published in my cider book are of no help to me. aaron Return to table of contents
Date: 13 Aug 92 09:53:00 EST From: "PAUL EDWARDS" <8260PE at INDINPLS.NAVY.MIL> Subject: malt prices In HBD #947, Brian asks about malt prices. $0.95/lb in 55 lb quantities is high. Try a friendly micro-brewery if one is nearby. One of our locals will sell any of the grains they use to homebrewers in just about any quantity for $0.50/lb. That's OK if you want to use Briess lager malt and specialty grains, but then sometimes beggars can't be choosers. I know that at that price, the micro is still making money. Their only caveat is that you call ahead and make sure it's not brew day or bottling day when you want to stop by, and I wouldn't go in and ask for only one pound. The folks in our club who take advantage of this deal usually coordinate their purchase and buy in full sack quantities. This place will even run the grain thru their roller mill for a small fee. (a couple of bucks per sack) I've heard that many micro's will do this as long as you don't interrupt them when they're busy. You can still get your specialty grains from your local HB, so as not to p*ss them off. One the *really* high side, there's a local shop (left over from the Wine-Art days) which gets a lot of first-time homebrewers/winemakers. This shop asks $3.95 for a one-pound bag of pale malt! They buy it pre-packaged from Wines, Inc. The other shop in town is at least smart enough to buy in bulk (or go in with the micro on pallet loads) and break stuff down into 1, 5, and 10 lb bags, and charges a reasonable price. Guess who gets the repeat business?? -- Paul Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 08:54:26 MDT From: abirenbo at rigel.hac.com (Aaron Birenboim) Subject: CO Hops I have been trying, without luck, to find a COLORADO brewer who will let me take a few hop cuttings. so, i make one final empassioned plea over HBD (r.c.b. producen no replies) If you are near the denver area, and have some hops which grow well in our climate, I would like to be able to take a few cuttings. please. i will not harm your plants in any way. All i should need is a leaf or two... or perhaps the tip of new growth on a vine.... only a couple of cm worth. you won't get any yield from new growth from now this year anyway. thanks in advance, aaron p.s. I plan to cultivate, and propigate the cuttings all winter, so i have a forest of little hop chutes to plant next spring. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 08:20:13 -0700 From: mcnally at wsl.dec.com Subject: wheat allergies I don't know much about wheat allergies, but I do know about beer. The turbidity in a hefeweizen is from yeast, not wheat; both hefe and klar beers are filtered. I would predict that if one causes an allergic reaction, so will the other (unless the B vitamins in the yeast counteract the allergy). Most beer doesn't have wheat in it anyway, so a doctor who advises against "most beer" is not beer-aware. _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_- Mike McNally mcnally at wsl.dec.com Digital Equipment Corporation Western Software Lab Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 11:30:44 -0400 From: blosskf at ttown.apci.com (Karl F. Bloss) Subject: Help for a novice Wow! You guys are really advanced. I've just browsed through two issues of Homebrew and I'm lost. I need some advice for a total novice (don't laugh, you have to start somewhere)? My roommate and I were given one of these homebrew kits, so we gave it a whirl. Of course, we didn't know the importance of proper sanitation and the first batch was contaminated ("This is the best wine I've had in a long time"). For the next, we properly sanitized a bottled-water carbuoy and made the second kit with the indicated amount of sugar. Sure enough, the beer was good, but had a 'caramelly' flavor. So a friend told us to use no sugar and double malt extract. This gave great results with a rich, lager-style beer. Our friends were baffled by the Old Milwaukee labels and Tab caps ("I got 'em 'cause they were cheap."). Any suggestions why this works with the double malt? Any other suggestions? Thanks! *********************************************************************** * Karl F. Bloss, Systems Engineer | "We're number one on the runway" * * Research & Engineering Systems | * * Air Products & Chemicals, Inc. | Neil Armstrong, preparing to * * 7201 Hamilton Boulevard | blast off for the moon * * Allentown, PA 18195-1501 | * * Telephone: (215) 481-5386 | * * FAX: (215) 481-2446 | * * internet: blosskf at ttown.apci.com | * * Prodigy : DPXM52A | * *********************************************************************** Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 11:14:23 CDT From: bliss at csrd.uiuc.edu (Brian Bliss) Subject: back to extract rfozard at sword.eng.pyramid.com (Bob Fozard) writes: > I'm not sure where I've seen this (maybe it was here), but is it true > that much of the hot-break has already been precipitated out of extract > syrup? If this is the case, I would expect that the 60+ minute boils > I've done in the past did more damage to the wort (in the way of > carmelization) than good. Perhaps this also has the effect of driving > off much of the malt aroma that someone recently mentioned seems to be > missing from extract brews. If using hopped extract, perhaps just a > 10-15 minute "sanitation" boil with perhaps the addition of > flavor/aroma hops would be the better way to go. If using un-hopped > extract, we have the option of using pellets and doing a slightly > longer boil (30-40 minutes for pellets??), or using the liquid hop > concentrates that don't require boiling (isomerized??). Comments > and/or experiences with this are requested. A month ago I did my first all-extract/no-mash brew since I switched to all-grain/mostly grain a year ago. (Well, there was the brewferm lambic kriek kit batch, but that doesn't count). Anyway, I boiled the full amount vigirously for an hour before adding any hops, and then added fuggles/goldings over the next hour. I cooled with an immersion wort-chiller, and got a good 1.5" of hot break in the bottom of the carboy, the same I usually get with all-grain. > I've tasted some pretty darn good extract brews, but none of _my_ > previous extract batches were close to what I've been able to produce > with all-grain. Probably one of my problems was with oxidation. > Typically, an extract brewer will mix the hot wort with some cold water > to get it to 5-gallons of pitching temp. wort. I feel that splashing > the hot wort into a carboy of cold water might lead to unwanted > oxidation. This time I will do a full-volume boil and use my immersion > chiller, but I wonder about the boil time and carmelization. Could > this be a source (or one of them) of that extract "twang" that is > present in some extract batches. It clearly isn't always there, at > least not by my tongue, but what causes it when it is? I think you've hit the nail on the head with the oxidation comment... Anyway, the batch had a 4 lb edme strong ale kit, 4 lb of unhopped amber extract, and 2 lbs of lt. brown sugar in it. hops were: 1 oz goldingss leaf (old), 1 oz fuggle leaf (old), 1 oz fuggle pellets (fresh), about 1/3 of each at 60, 40, & 20 min. I also added 1/2 tsp of netmeg at the finish, and 1/2 tsp irish moss. Edme ale yeat (wyeast belgian ale starter went bad, & I coldn't find the packet of whitbread ale yeast I thought I had). OG 1.071, FG 1.013. I siphoned off the hot break into another carboy like I usually do, then aereated and pitched. I left it in the primary for 3 weeks, at room temp (80F+). I bottled with 140 g corn sugar, and another re-hydrated packet of edme ale yeast, since the alcohol content is pretty high. I tasted it last night after a week in the bottle, and it seems to have developed a decent amount of carbonation already. It's got an alcohol nose to it, plenty of body, balanced by more than enough fuggly flavor, which blends into the nutmeg/brown sugar (the former is fading rapidly) sweetness, which fades again into hoppiness, leaving a clean palate. Lets see, that's 5 different sensations, at different times, and I'm quite pleased. Once you taste it, you have to drink more - I only took sips, but I never sat the glass down until it was empty! A (non-homebrewing) friend came over, I poured him a glass, and it too was empty before it touched the table. Anyway, it's better than many (but certainly not all) of my all-grain batches. I had expected a FG in the 1.025 range, and consequently overhopped. (The year old hops were quite a bit fresher than I thought, since they were vacuum-packed.) Obviously, I didn't caramelize it much in the boil, or the FG would be higher than 1.013. Aging should mellow it, and do it good. If you do a full boil, you don't have to worry as much about caramelization. I seem to remember from Miller that 2.5 gal of 1.100 wort will caramelize 4X as much as 5 gal 1.050 wort, and will be twice as caramelized when diluted to 5 gal. Boil the heck out of it... bb Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 09:57:11 PDT From: jeg at sangabriel.desktalk.com (John E. Greene) Subject: Re: The Good Ol' Days... >> Sigh. It's times like these that make me wish for the good ol' days >> in the HBD when the members of this forum were only interested in open >> minded, friendly discussions of the issues; when we were all genuinely >> concerned about helping each other in their quest for the world's >> perfect beer. Remember when people used to commend us for being the >> best-behaved bunch on the net? Remember when? > Sounds like a real bore. I think the "problem" is that people are starting > to think for themselves instead of simply repeating the same tired old lines > from popular books. Actually it wasn't a bore at all and there wasn't much repeating of the same old tired lines from popular books. This was a great forum for discussing the various techniques people have discovered that work better or somehow disproved what was printed in the books. Everyone would try the changes and report back what they thought and how it went. It was a very constructive process. The 'experts' on the list played more of a mentor role offering what they knew and what they experienced to be taken at face value. It was up to the reader to decide if they would like to take the advice or try something that better fit their way of brewing. Then there were the many humorous brewing accounts frequently posted by people such as Florian Bell. Florian has his own way of doing things and it works for him. Unfortunately Florian doesn't post much any more and much of that 'Entertaining' flavor of the digest has long since disappeared, being replaced by the more forceful 'technical' brewers who seemed to have this unrelenting drive to *make* you understand why they are *right* and others are *wrong*. I think the "problem" is that people think that everyone brews for the same reason. They can't imagine anyone not having the same motivation for brewing. Some people brew to accurately reproduce specific styles, some people brew to make a beer they enjoy drinking, some people brew because they like the brewing process. Each of these people will have a different way that is right for them or works for them. Now, it seems, that one has to risk public ridicule if they post their experiences even though it may not be 'technically' correct. I, like many, feel it's not worth it. I get enough of that crap at work and my brewing is intended to help me relax from that. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- John E. Greene Everyone needs something to believe in. I believe Sr. Staff Engineer I'll have another homebrew! Desktalk Systems Inc. uucp: ..uunet!desktalk!jeg (310) 323-5998 internet: jeg at desktalk.desktalk.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 12:04:54 CDT From: dbehm <DBEHM at UA1VM.UA.EDU> Subject: Sassafras Sassafrs can be found growing wild in the woods in N. Ala. I have pulled roots on several occasions. I don't know how many roots you would have to boil to get enough flavoring for a batch of root beer. Perhaps an old cookbook could tell you, maybe under sassperilla(?). Look in the Audubon Guide to North American Trees p.451 for a description. he range is "extreme S. Ontario east to SW Maine, south to central Fl, west to E. Texas, andnorth to central Michigan; up to 500 in the Southen Appalachians." In other word almost the entire E. U.S. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 13:55:12 EDT From: neilm at juliet.ll.mit.edu ( Neil Mager ) Subject: Re: SmartBrewers, Hydrometers, Flames, and Wheat beer. Jack Schmidling writes: > > >From: Kinney Baughman <BAUGHMANKR at CONRAD.APPSTATE.EDU> > > >Sigh. It's times like these that make me wish for the good ol' days > in the HBD when the members of this forum were only interested in open > minded, friendly discussions of the issues; when we were all genuinely > concerned about helping each other in their quest for the world's > perfect beer. Remember when people used to commend us for being the > best-behaved bunch on the net? Remember when? > > Sounds like a real bore. I think the "problem" is that people are starting > to think for themselves instead of simply repeating the same tired old lines No, it sounds like the forum for discussion about home brewing topics, that it is supposed to be. People thinking for themselves will only add new or different perspectives to the discussion. They won't add flames. There is no reason to attack someone personally because of their view on a particular topic. After all, this is a home brewing forum, not a presidential election :-). On to more important topics: I brewed a wheat beer which should be done aging this weekend. This week, four bottles decided to break. To prime, I used one gallon of sweet wort that I drew off before pitching. The other bottles seem fine so I don't think I overcarbonated (over primed?) and the gravity levels were right on target. I guess its time to be a little more selective about the bottles I use for bottling. The ones that broke tended to be a little thinner than most of the others. Wheat beer tends to have more of a head than most other beers. Whats the cause of this? Do these beers have a higher CO2 content causing the head (and breaking bottles)? Julius Echter bottles are pretty heavy - probably a good reason for that! Saturday night, Lobster, Steamers, & fresh Wheat beer... can't wait. =============================================================================== Neil Mager MIT Lincoln Labs Lexington, MA Weather Radar - Group 43 Internet <neilm at juliet.ll.mit.edu> Voice (617) 981-4803 =============================================================================== Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 09:08 CDT From: arf at ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling) Subject: VITIMIN C and sundries To: Homebrew Digest Fm: Jack Schmidling >From: Chuck Coronella <CORONELLRJDS at CHE.UTAH.EDU> >Subject: Ascorbic acid >I can vaguely remember, way back when, a discussion in this forum regarding the addition of ascorbic acid (also known as vitamin C) to a brew for the purpose of preventing oxidation. Is this done at bottling time? In what quantities? I s'pose one could add food grade vitamin C available at any pharmacy or grocery store, right? Unless someone else wants to take credit, I believe I started the discussion when I first announced my video. The guy in the brew shop featured in it claims that a tsp of Vitimin C will cure oxydation problems. He also claims that oxidation causes a cidery taste in the beer which seems an opinion unique to him so that may be a clue to the validity of the Vitimin C cure. >From: dipalma at banshee.sw.stratus.com (James Dipalma) >Subject: yeast culturing > As part of the never-ending quest for improvement of my beer, I've decided to try my hand at yeast culturing.....I have located a source for glass petri dishes, pipettes, slides, etc. What other equipment will I need? If a micro$cope is needed, what power of magnification? I have published (and emailed to you) an article on yeast culturing for beginners. It is a very simple and easy to understand method that requires an absolute minimum abount of equipment and knowledge. There is no EASYEAST here, just trying to pass on what I learned the hard way. If anyone else would like a copy, email will get you one. >From: korz at ihpubj.att.com Subject: Re: Cider >>Secondly, one can always add sugar to adjust the sweetness after fermenting. >If mean adding sugar at bottling, this implies that you've somehow killed or filtered out the yeast or else the yeast will go at the new sugar. I was referring to the standard practice of nursing along a batch of wine to get the maximum alcohol out of it consistant with the type of yeast used. The sugar is added during the late stage of fermentation. If all the sugar is added at the beginning, it can OD the yeast and stick or worse yet if you miscalculate, the yeast dies and the wine is too sweet. The practice is to start with a gravity that you know will ferment out and then add sugar in small increments each time fermentation ceases until the desired degree of dryness is achieved. This can take several months but it is the time tested way of doing it. >From: bryan at tekgen.bv.tek.com >Subject: Flurry of "break" material. > All this talk about cold break material got me to thinking about something. I do (90%) full wort boils in a 10 gallon brewpot and use a counterflow chiller. You might explain what that 90% means. >The wort coming out of the chiller is a murky brown color, (for a pale ale). I know the pros and cons of immersion vs counterflow have been beaten to death but I can't resist pointing out that the wort coming out of the kettle after immersion chilling is crystal clear. I just do not understand why anyone wants all that yuck in the fermenter or the bother of letting it settle and racking again. >From: Glenn Anderson <glenn.anderson at canrem.com Subject: 2 pot boils >I'm wondering what adjustment would be required to my hop rate, if any, when using two pots to boil 5 gallons instead of one. Assuming that I boil 2.5 gallons in each pot and hop only one of the pots...... I think you are sadly mistaken if you think the beer in the kettle without the hops has been properly boiled. You might as well not boil it at all. The correct approach is to use equal amounts of hops in each kettle. >From: Jay Hersh <hersh at expo.lcs.mit.edu> >> Thirdly, one usually will add lots of sugar to make a higher alcohol apple >> wine and ale yeast would produce an undrinkably sweet wine. >I'm not sure what you're saying here. If one simply added lots of sugar at the beginning, the ale yeast could quit fermenting long before the sugar was fermented and long before a wine yeast would quit. > I have used Red Star Champagne, Red Star Epernay, and Whitbread Ale yeasts in Ciders. As a point of interest, I pure culture RS Champaign a few weeks ago for my next batch of wine and both petri dishes turned up mould colonies. One dish was never opened after inocculation as a control and the other was the one transferred to the slants. Both had the same species of mould. My next batch should be interesting. I don't have enough of anything but apples to make 5 gallons so I picked the mullberries and elderberries as they ripened and froze them. Looks like the grapes and apples will be ripe about the same time. I also found out that elderberries need to be dried before use. Fresh, they are tasteless but dried, are very fruity. > I have always had to fortify them somewhat so that they did not ferment out too completely, as the apple sugars are highly fermentable, though the Ale yeast will tend to quit earlier than the Champagne yeast. That is one way to do it but adding sugar and letting it ferment seems more natural but that is a moot point. >I personally do not like sweetening after fermentation, and would rather choose the right yeast and level of fortification so that the final product ends at a desirable gravity. I don't consider fermentation over till bottling time but more importantly your method sounds too much like Gallo. And unless you get real lucky, you can easily miss the mark. >From: oconnor at ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (donald oconnor) >Subject: oring challenge >here's the experiment. i have what i think most would call a light lager (9 lbs vienna malt and some saaz hops) that's been sitting in a used keg for about 5 weeks now. it was the first time i had used the keg and i did nothing special at all to clean either the keg or orings. i.e., i simply rinsed the soda out with\ warm water........ Perhaps the key here is the word "soda". The manufacturers will be the first to tell you that not all sodas are equal. My bad experience was with Coke. As I said before, the first batch in a keg with casually cleaned oring was undrinkable (but I drank it anyway:). I have not noticed the coke taste since but the orings in all my kegs still smell like Coke not beer. js Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 14:37:44 EDT From: Jay Hersh <hersh at expo.lcs.mit.edu> Subject: Yeast Nutrient Umm, this may be a silly half baked idea, but I was under the impression that many commercial yeast nutrients are in fact made from yeast. Can any professional biologist types comment on the accuracy of this idea?? JaH Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 12:41:48 PDT From: sami at scic.intel.com (Sam Israelit) Subject: Head Space, etc . . . In HBD #947, Jack Schmidling writes that you could bottle leaving no head space. This is 180 degrees out of phase with what more than 20 other people have told me. They said that you have to have a minimum of one half-inch of space at the top or the bottle won't properly carbonate. I've never thought to ignore this advice so I don't know what happens if you fill it to the brim. Considering that the pro breweries do this, I'll run with the pack on this one. Also Jack, you state that maybe people are starting to think for themselves here and that is what is causing the recent flame-outs. Well thinking for yourself and being an asshole are entirely independent characteristics. And I'm not referring to you with that statement, but with a few of the others recently posted. As a relative novice (I've only been at this for about 25 batches), I have learned a great deal through the more experienced brewers debating the different aspects of brewing. Challenging the techniques of others helps everyone to understand the underlying art. No one is saying that we can't think for ourselves, but rather that we should keep it to a constructive confrontation. And finally, the peach weissen turned out to be pretty tasty. I used 12 lbs of California white peaches and I should probably have only used 9. It does have that banana flavor to it. What causes that? Is it from fermenting it at too high a temperature? Will it mellow out over time? Anyway, the next attempt is an all-grain stout (my first all-grain). Based on the discussions I expect it too be fun. Sam Israelit (formerly sami at scic.intel.com, now samis at athena.mit.edu) Engineer, Businessman, . . . Brewer Portland, OR Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 14:12 MTS From: Chuck Coronella <CORONELLRJDS at CHE.UTAH.EDU> Subject: Has no one used ascorbic acid? A couple of days ago, I posted an article requesting information about ascorbic acid: >I can vaguely remember, way back when, a discussion in this forum regarding >the addition of ascorbic acid (also known as vitamin C) to a brew for the >purpose of preventing oxidation. Is this done at bottling time? In what >quantities? I s'pose one could add food grade vitamin C available at any >pharmacy or grocery store, right? > >The reason that I'm interested is that I have a batch of mead that's ready >for bottling. Actually, it's an apple mead (cyser), and it was probably >ready 4 months ago! I'm really getting paranoid about oxidation; I under- >stand that meads are more succeptible to oxidation than beers. I have no >experience with meads; this is my first. I'd really be interested to hear >from anyone who's added a.a. to a mead before, and especially about >deleterious flavor effects. I received one reply, from Brian Smithey smithey at rmtc.Central.Sun.COM >I have no experience using ascorbic acid to prevent oxidation, but >thought I'd pass on my plan. I have a strong mead that's been >fermenting for a little over 3 months now (my first mead too), and >after that much time I want to be very careful with it. I'm also >a bit concerned about oxidation, especially since I expect the mead >to take a year or two to develop and mature. I'm planning on using >the new oxygen scavenging SmartCaps on my mead, and also on a six-pack >or so of each batch of beer that I brew from now on, and keep that >six-pack for "competition bottles". This seems like sound advice to me. Certainly, SmartCaps should be able to prevent, or greatly reduce, aborption into my mead of oxygen in the headspeace. But, I am also concerned with oxidation that can occur during racking and bottling. (If I ever get a kegging setup, I won't have this problem anymore ;-) It's just occurred to me that the kinetics of the oxidation reaction might be slow so that dissolved oxygen could come out of solution as head-space O2 is absorbed by SmartCaps. Any comments on that? Assuming that the kinetics are not MUCH slower than the aborbtion on the caps, I am back to my original question: Has anyone used ascorbic acid in a mead? I am wondering about the effectiveness, procedures, and side effects. Thanks for any advice, (and thanks to Rob for maintaining this forum) Chuck Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 14:38:57 CDT From: johnf at persoft.com (John Freeborg) Subject: Alt or Kolsch Yeast I've recently had a few Kolsch beers and an Alt beer and have really enjoyed the style. From what I can gleam from books and other brewers, the yeast is a key element in a good Kolsch. Does anybody know where to get a good culture of authentic Kolsch or Alt yeast? Is there any brands that I might be able to get it from the bottle dregs? Thanks! - John - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- John Freeborg Software Engineer Persoft johnf at persoft.com 465 Science Dr. 608-273-6000 Madison, WI 53711 Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 15:47:50 PDT From: rstya at mowgli.mda.ca (Roy Styan) Subject: modified V.S. under modified malts I've reciently started using british two row pale malt grains imported from England, hence have dispensed with the protien rest during the mash (and gosh, life IS alot easier)! The beers have been working out just fine, but I've noticed that the primary fermentation takes about twice as long as it did before. Hmmmm... Could this be because there isn't quite as many protiens in the wort as there would be using an undermodified malt with a protien rest? How will this slower fermentation affect the taste of the beer (my experiments have not been controlled enough for me to derermine this yet)? Any thoughts y'all have on this subject would be appreciated. Thanks, Roy Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 9:18:04 PDT From: tahoma!dgs1300 at bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Don Scheidt) Subject: Explosions and flames In Hombrew #946, Stuart Siegler asks: >Subject: What's the deal? > >What's the deal? > >As a new homebrewer, I need this net. It is an invaluable source >of information. The constant bickering that seems to be going on >is a real turn off for a new-b, like myself. What am I to do if >I have a real problem, like exploding bottles? (I am having this >problem, if anyone wants to help.) I certainly wont post a question >for fear of someone's retaliation or offending someone -- quite frankly >it scares the post-beer-product out of me. > >(Where did the term 'Flame' come from, anyway? ) > >Might I suggest that attacks of this nature be sent to the person who >offended you. (You know, if someone ignores your e-mail, they are >going to ignore the posting here. I, on the other hand, don't know >enough to.) > >I really thought that Home Brewing's most important rule was > Relax. Dont Worry. >(OK, maybe it really is 'Sanitize', but I'm sure Relax is high up >in the rules). Flaming refers to the act of setting fire to somebody's words, and is rather usenet-ese in its usage, although it is reaching wider acceptance ("my supervisor was really annoyed and sent me flame mail"). Yep, I'm finding that certain individuals get really boring when all they do is whine and criticise, unless they somehow manage to impart some useful knowledge in the whining and criticism. Such are the pitfalls of usenet and many e-mail lists. Ignore it; think of 'em as so many wrong numbers, when the misdialing idiot blames you for his/her mistake. :-) It would also be really useful if the flamers took it to e-mail... and maybe we could stand less adjectives like 'stupid', 'lame', and such. A few more fresh lupulins, that's what we could *all* use, to put the 'lax' back in relax! On to the more important (and not stupid!) question of exploding bottles. I have been brewing for about a year, and have never had an explosion (well, except for the bottle that broke when I dropped it - but I think the concrete floor may have helped that along!). Non-impact bottle explosions seem to have two causes - infected bottlings and overpriming. Infected bottling usually means that the bottles were insufficiently sanitised, or that the beer may have been infected going in. This is not as common a reason as overpriming, as most homebrewers (you included) seem to under- stand that keeping it reasonably clean is important and fundamental. So let's see if you're overpriming. What priming method are you using? If you're adding a measured dosage of sugar to each bottle, you're asking for trouble. Much better is to prepare a priming solution - a cup of dry malt extract dissolved in a pint of boiling water, and added to the 5-gallon batch in a priming bucket, will produce a slow, but steady and non-exploding carbonisation. Other priming agents - 3/4 cup of corn sugar, or a mixture of 1/4 cup of fruit syrup plus 2/3 cup DME, all dissolved in one pint of water - will work well too, with the fruit syrup contributing something unique to the flavour profile; it sure worked well with a raspberry wheat and a raspberry amber ale! Relax, don't worry, and make sure you don't get hurt by the exploding bottles! Better luck next time. - -- Don | Verbosity leads to unclear, inarticulate dgs1300 at tahoma | things. ..!uunet!bcstec!tahoma!dgs1300 | -- Vice President Dan Quayle Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #948, 08/14/92