HOMEBREW Digest #985 Wed 07 October 1992

Digest #984 Digest #986

		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

  re:cultured Wyeast champagne (jim busch)
  re:grapefruit in alts (jim busch)
  Spiced Wine (Doug Behm)
  Clorox+ammonia=phosgene (hjl)
  Vancouver Beer (Tim Anderson)
  Re: Orange zest (Bill Slack)
  Re: Orange Peels (Jeff Benjamin)
  Various topics (ZLPAJGN)
  Brewpot sources, please (Rob Bradley)
  Wyeast steam beer? (Rob Bradley)
  homebrew article (JCHISM)
  Re: Alts in Washington, DC, area (Dave Coombs)
  [hinkens at macc.wisc.edu: Citrus Zester] (Dave Coombs)
  Citrus Zester (hinkens)
  Yeast Starters (Thomas D. Feller)
  cider (Rob Bradley)
  Indy Brews (C.R. Saikley)
  hops in starters (florianb)
  Wyeast Problem? (James S Durham)
  Great American Beer Fest (Michael Howe)
  Extract gravity (whg)
  Trappist Ale (?) (whg)
  Wood, Hops, (Jack Schmidling)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 6 Oct 92 9:20:52 EDT From: jim busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com> Subject: re:cultured Wyeast champagne in the last digest: Pierre Jelenc, pcj1 at cunixf.cc.columbia.edu shares an interesting point about the contents of a chanpagne package of Wyeast: >The colonies growing from the Champagne yeast package described in my >previous post have now been examined by several knowledgeable people in >the micro department. The large colonies appear to be healthy >Saccharomyces, but the small ones are in fact bacteria!! They appear to >be some sort of bacillus, thin rods which aggregate easily, clearly not >E. coli or salmonella. First, if the pack was swelling before puncture, it was probably a defective sample. The other interesting point is the contamination level. We examined a pack of Wyeast Ale (I dont recall which one) in the spring and were astonished to see the quantity of peddiococcus (spelling??). Just another data point. Jim Busch busch at daacdev1.stx.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 92 9:28:54 EDT From: jim busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com> Subject: re:grapefruit in alts in the last digest: polstra!norm at uunet.UU.NET (Norm Hardy) writes: >The alt beers of Duesseldorf are varied, from light amber to very dark >amber. The tastes run from semi-malty and sweet (Schlosser, Diebels) to >VERY bitter (Uerige and Schumacher and some others I can't remember now) >My last time there, in 1990, I found the alts to have a grapefruit kind >of bitterness that I found off-putting. I have noted this same phenomonon. It seems particularly noticable in highly hopped american pale ales, typically when Cascade or Centennial hops are used. I also noted the same thing when I was drinking the Alts in the Altstadt area of Duesseldorf. I suspect some correlation between very high hopping levels and citrous notes. I'm sure there is a good chemical explanation to this. Jim Busch busch at daacdev1.stx.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 92 08:49:22 CDT From: Doug Behm <DBEHM at UA1VM.UA.EDU> Subject: Spiced Wine >From 'Penguin Book of Homebrewing and Wine-Making' Basic apple wine Mixed apples 8 to 16 lbs sugar as standard syrup 2 to 3 lb pectinaze rohament P acid blend if necessary yeast A.P or white wine as starter vitaminzed nutrient as starter Summarized: wash apples, rinse and crush apples and put in sulphited water before they go brown.( 1 campden tablet per gallon). Cover fruit withnot more than 6 pints of water in which pectinaze and rohament P has been dissolved and leave for 24 hrs, after which the apples should be pureed. Add hot water to bring to desired gallonage at fermentation temp and stir in sugar, nutrient and yeast starter. After a week strain off pulp, put under fermentation lock and proceed as 'usual'. Drinkable at 3 months, better at 6. For cyser, substitute 1/2 pint white grape concentrate for 1/2 lb sugar. For mead cyser honey 2lb apple juice 1/2 gal acid blend 2 teaspoons(check pH, about 3) tannin 1/4 teaspoon vitaminized wine yeast nutrient mead, white wine or A.P. yeast starter pectinaze 1 tablespoon Ferment apple juice. nutrient and half the acid should be added. Diluted honey, rest of acid and tannin are mixed together and added immediately after first fermentation slackens. Dissolve honey in warm water and sulphited at 100 ppm (2 tablet per gallon), dissolve other ingredients and make up to desired volume. leave closely covered for 24 hrs before yeasting. Acid mix - 4 parts each of malic and tartaric and 2 parts of citric. juice of 2 lemons will do in a pinch. Never tried any of this. DB Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 92 10:20 EDT From: hjl at gummo.att.com Subject: Clorox+ammonia=phosgene Stuart Siegler suggests (tongue in cheek?) mixing Clorox with ammonia. This produces phosgene, a poison gas used by both sides in world war I. When it is inhaled, hydrochloric acid is formed in the lungs causing them to fill with fluid. This can be life threatening. Hank .//' Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 92 08:00:22 PDT From: tima at wv.MENTORG.COM (Tim Anderson) Subject: Vancouver Beer I'll be in Vancouver, B.C. in a couple of weeks. I've had some pretty ok beer there at Granville Island Brewery. Is there anything else worth checking out? How about a good downtown pub (or two or three)? Seems to me the only thing you'd have to add to make Vancouver a truly great city is about 15 or 20 brewpubs. tim Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 92 10:05:02 EDT From: wslack.UUCP!wrs at mv.MV.COM (Bill Slack) Subject: Re: Orange zest Dave Coombs asks about peeling oranges: I use a lot of orange zest: for brewing, for an occasional cocktail, but mostly for putting in my morning cup of black coffee (try it, you'll like it). Here's how I do it: Take a whole unpeeled orange and with a standard potato/carrot peeler slowly slice a spiral of zest from the "north pole" of the orange to the "south pole". With a little practice you can even get it all off in one cotinuous strip. I keep the excess in a small glass jar in the fridge. If you like, leave the peel out on the kitchen counter for a few days. It will dry and curl up. This will keep in a jar in the cupboard. You can grind the dried peel into a powder to be used in your spice beer or you can use it fresh. I find the veggie peeler makes it easy to remove the zest and not the white part (the pith) which is very bitter. Bill __ wrs at gozer.mv.com (Bill Slack) Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 92 9:41:04 MDT From: Jeff Benjamin <benji at hpfcbug.fc.hp.com> Subject: Re: Orange Peels Dave Coombs <coombs at cme.nist.gov> asks about zesting oranges. The easiest way to do this is, of course, to use an orange zester. Such a tool can be had for $5 or so (US) at your favorite kitchen supply store. Just so you know what you're looking for, it will have a handle, then a small curved head with sharp holes in it running parallel to the handle. Sort of hard to describe, so I'll try a silly ASCII picture. This is looking at it from the front, down the length of the handle: ------- / \ O-O-O-O-O You simply scrape it along the peel, and the holes gouge out thin strips of the outer peel with no white pith. The reason you want to avoid the pith is that it's very bitter; all the essential oils you want are contained in the orange zest. Since everyone is gearing up to make Xmas brews (including me), here's an easy recipe that turns out extremely good. I'm normally an all-grain brewer, but it's easier to make large quantities of extract brews for parties and things, and the spices tend to cover up some of the extract qualities. Of course, you could use the same spicing technique for an all-grain batch, too. Remember to go easy on the spices. The flaw with a lot of commercial Xmas brews is that the spices overwhelm the flavor of the beer rather than complement it. Quick & Easy Spiced Brown Ale MountMellick Brown Ale Kit 3-4 whole cloves 3 whole cinnamon sticks 1/4 tsp nutmeg 4 oranges 1/8 cup fresh Hallertau hops (leaf) Simmer spices, hops, and zest of 1 orange in 1 qt water for 30-45 minutes. Make brown ale according to 3.6 gallon recipe. Add spice mixture (do not strain) and zest of other three oranges to wort. Ferment, strain, and bottle according to kit instructions. The flavors balance very nicely after only a short aging time, but it gets better after a couple of months. An excellent holiday beer. - -- Jeff Benjamin benji at hpfcla.fc.hp.com Hewlett Packard Co. Fort Collins, Colorado "Midnight shakes the memory as a madman shakes a dead geranium." - T.S. Eliot Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 06 Oct 92 10:53 CDT From: ZLPAJGN%LUCCPUA.bitnet at UICVM.UIC.EDU Subject: Various topics Dear Brewers I have a couple of things to post: First, I'll me moving to a new e-address, so any personal responses should go to xlpsjgn at luccpua.it.luc.edu (John Norton). I'll still be at this present address until the end of the month (I think?). I'll be re-subscribing at my new address soon. Secondly, my appologies to the HBD net for a short personal, but I need to contact ERIK (of Glo:gg fame) re: Glo:gg here in the Sweedish Village in Chicago. I couldn't find the Glo:gg essence - with the high alcohol content - but did find a glo:gg "mixer" of sorts. It comes in a 16oz(?) bottle and might be usable in the later stages of the boil?? Please advise. And/or, if anyone else on the HBD can advise us as to using something like this, please let us know. It's not in a concentrated form, but is , well, like a mixer like you'd get at a grocery store: just add the booze. Finally, I just wanted to say that I bottled the Weiss I'd been brewing and snuck a peek at it after only 2 days in the bottle. With the exception of an expectedly low carbonation (it should get better as the brew matures) I thought it was quite good, but still not the Weiss- like brew that I'm used to; it didn't have the characteristic Weiss bite, but more of a Samule Adams taste (like I said, I'm not complaining Papezain's recipe (this was what I used) says that it should be ready in a few more days - 10 max - but is this really enough time for an all extract, 50/50 wheat weiss to mature? Thanks in advance for any reactions. Cheerz, John Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 92 12:18:31 -0400 From: bradley at adx.adelphi.edu (Rob Bradley) Subject: Brewpot sources, please Does anybody know of a source for 7+ gallon stainless steel pots in the greater New York area (LI if possible). E-mail, please. Thanks, Rob (bradley at aadx.adelphi.edu) Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 92 12:26:34 -0400 From: bradley at adx.adelphi.edu (Rob Bradley) Subject: Wyeast steam beer? In a recent (981?) HBD, Russ Gelinas asked about a upcoming Wyeast version of steam beer yeast. I was at Kedco on Long Island on Saturday (10/3). They had JUST recieved a Wyeast shipment (dated 9/30!!). One of the offerings was "California"; I'm _almost_ certain the number was 1214. The fellow at the store said it was to be used at ale tempretures, but could be "lagered" in the secondary (I hope I'm quoting correctly). This is probably your answer, Russ. I bought a packet, but haven't tried it yet. If anyone has/does soon, please consider sending me a short post about what primary/secondary temperatures you used. Rob (bradley at adx.adelphi.edu) Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 08:15 EST From: JCHISM%HSSCAM.decnet at NETVAX.MIS.SEMI.HARRIS.COM Subject: homebrew article in HD984 Dave Coombs writes: >Subject: Re: Orange Peels >If you know how to zest citrus, I'd like to hear it. Maybe I just >gaze up too soon. Curiously, I couldn't find a reference to citrus >zest in Fanny Farmer, my old standby. >So, what's the motivation for removing the white fleshy part of the >rind? Dave, I use a citrus peeler made by Sunkist. It has a "zest peeler" on one end of it. You can get them at most any grocery store in the produce dept. They are only a $1 or so. The motivation for removing the white fleshy part of the rind is that it leaves a bitter flavor. Jami jchism at hsscam.mis.semi.harris.com The Party Line BBS (717)868-5435 Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 06 Oct 92 12:38:03 -0400 From: Dave Coombs <coombs at cme.nist.gov> Subject: Re: Alts in Washington, DC, area For those around Washington, DC, this is just a remind that Schloesser is on tap at the Wurzburg Haus in Rockville. dave "my interest in the place is only gastronomic" Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 06 Oct 92 12:47:16 -0400 From: Dave Coombs <coombs at cme.nist.gov> Subject: [hinkens at macc.wisc.edu: Citrus Zester] To summarize the responses I received, the motivation for using citrus zests is to get the great oils that lie near the surface of the rinds without the bitterness from the "white stuff" underneath. Potato peelers have been suggested. I'm not sure it would work much better on the slippery rind than the grater did, but it might. Another suggestion is a nutmeg grater. Here's one response verbatim. Thanks to all who responded. dave - ------- Forwarded Message From: hinkens at macc.wisc.edu Subject: Citrus Zester I saw a device that is designed for zesting fruit. I'll try my hand at ASCII drawing: Side View: Front View: -------------------=========== _______ * ^ [_] <---- Sharp "Box" to Handle cut the zest. The device has a smooth metal plate much like a spatula that rides on the fruit's rind and a sharp 1/8 inch square "box" that cuts the zest. My mother showed me the unit though I'm not sure where she got it. I would try the larger department stores or mail order houses like The Chefs Catalog. Good Luck! - -Jay - ------- End of Forwarded Message Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 92 09:48:39 PDT From: thomasf at deschutes.ico.tek.com (Thomas D. Feller) Subject: Yeast Starters I recently bought Dave Miller new book,_Brewing the World's Great Beers_ (I think that is right) and was reading his section on making yeast starters. He says to put some noble hops in the starter, in the past I have never done this. I believe the reasoning is the hops offer some perservative action. I use a presure cooker to can by wort and believe that 10 min at 240 degF should kill any unwanted living things. I am sure that the pressure cooker does a far better job than adding hops. I do have a couple of question about making starters, Do I really need to boil my DME before canning? When I remove my wort for the canner it is boiling away so in effect I am boiling it twice. Should I transfer the trub from my canned wort into my starter jar? It has been stated that the yeast will use the trub as it starts to ferment so I have always transfered this to help the yeast start. Happy Brewing Tom Feller Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 92 15:01:54 -0400 From: bradley at adx.adelphi.edu (Rob Bradley) Subject: cider Garrett Hildebrand, Andy Kurtz and Charles Spiteri (+ others?) have been pursuing a cider thread lately. My $0.015: You can make a great beverage, simply and quickly, from "soft cider" and ale yeast. However, I _strongly_recommend_ yeast nutrient. I have some stuff that seems pretty standard. From "Wine Inc." A 2 oz. bag cost <$2 and has enough for many gallons (1 tsp/gal). The following is embarassingly easy for any brewer, and produces good results. Start with a 0.5 gal. or 1 gal. bottle of juice. All that seems to matter is that it's sugar- and preservative-free. I've used juice reconstituted from concentrate as well as stuff that has never been concentrated. Filtered as well as unfiltered. "Ye olde all-natural family farm" brand as well as major US food conglomerates. Remove the top. Pour off two cups. Drink one, mix the other with yeast nutrient and dried ale yeast (I've used Edme). Return to the bottle and affix an air-lock. Q: Does anybody use Wyeast with cider? Which variety(ies)? A starting gravity in the 1045-1050 range seems typical. Final gravity will be near 1000, so it's quite dry and apt to be - ahem - cidery. It also has a fair kick to it, being 6% or more alcolhol by volume. Siphon it off the dregs and drink immediately or bottle. You can pour more juice (with nutrient) on top of the dregs for your next batch. I get good results in 10 days, but I suspect it would be acceptable in a week. Before I started using yeast nutrient, it took longer. In any case, bottle aging gives a mellower drink. I've never had `vinegar' problems, but the nose does recoil a bit at the first whiff upon removing the airlock: lots of alcohol and acid seem to get trapped in the head-space. For either sweet cider or strong cider, add a pound of brown sugar per gallon. With ale yeast, the alcohol whould eventually kill the yeast leaving residual sugar. Alternately, use champagne yeast to get something the strength of table wine. The latter needs months of aging to mellow out. I have 3.5 gallons of regular and one gallon of sweet fermenting now. I'm thinking about experimenting with added fruits later this season. In fact, I added half a pound of raisins to the sweet cider, following a recommendation in the HBD two years ago. Has anybody tried other fruits? Cheers, Rob (bradley at adx.adelphi.edu) Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 92 10:42:35 PDT From: grumpy!cr at uunet.UU.NET (C.R. Saikley) Subject: Indy Brews From: sfw at trionix.com (Scott Weintraub) > Im off to Indianapolis for a weekend in November...and might have some >time to sample the local brews..if there Are any! > Where does one go, in and around Indianapolis, for good beer? There are two breweries in Indianapolis. The first to open was the Indianapolis Brewing Company. They are a micro, not a brewpub, so you can't drink there (unless of course you know someone :-). Their Dusseldorfer Alt is quite good, although it wouldn't please a true Alt-head. At one point they landed an account at the Hoosierdome, selling their Pils to basketball fans during Pacer games. This was something of a coup, giving them some much needed public exposure. They've had their ups and downs, but are hanging in there. If you call them (317-898-1235), they'll be happy to tell you where their accounts are, which would be a good starting point in seeking specialty beer houses. The best place I've found to imbibe in Indy is the Broad Ripple Brewing Company. As the name suggests, this pub/brewery is located in the Broad Ripple district, very near 65th and Cornell. They make some good beers (their ESB won a gold at the '91 GABF), and carry an interesting variety of midwestern micros. Proprietor John Hill drives all over the midwest to keep his establishment well stocked. Indiana's archaic laws have forced John to jump through some hoops, including making the pub and brewery two separate businesses with separate addresses. They are in a single building, but there can be no doorway directly between them. To go from pub to brewery, one must go outside and down a sidewalk and then into the brewery. This can be fun in January. Initially John was told that there could be no beer lines running between the two businesses, and that he would have to keg the beer in the brewery and wheel it down the sidewalk. He managed to get around that bit of stupidity, but must still maintain separate records of each business, and "sell" his beer from the brewery to its only customer, the pub. Last I heard business was doing well. Enjoy, CR Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 06 Oct 92 12:12:00 PDT From: florianb at chip.cna.tek.com Subject: hops in starters Mark Garti asks: => anyone ever put hops in their liquid yeast starters? if so why? anyone not do it? => Yes, I always do. About 1/8 oz per quart of starter. Boil it right with the starter solution. Helps protect against infection. Florian Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 92 14:01 PDT From: James S Durham <js_durham at pnlg.pnl.gov> Subject: Wyeast Problem? I recently brewed two batches of different beers on two consecutive days. For the first, I used two packages of dubious yeast: A (yikes!) Red Star Ale and the yeast supplied with a M&F Old Ale kit. I brewed an India Dark Ale (at least, that's what I call it). I made up a starter by taking out two tablespoons of boiling wort and adding water to cool it to 100 degrees F. The second batch was a stout, and I used Wyeast Irish Yeast. The package was completely inflated with CO-2 when I cut it. Here's the interesting part. The IDA began visible fermentation within two hours. It took the Wyeast 2 days to begin actively fermenting. Is this normal? Both are fermenting side by side in the same closet, and both brews were essentially identical with respect to sanitation practices. What gives? Incidently, what do you call a beer that uses an India Pale Ale recipe (including oak chips) with 3 of the seven lbs of light DME replaced with dark DME? Is there another name for India Dark Ale? Jim Durham Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 19:50:26 -0600 From: Michael Howe <howe at gp_sparc45.gwl.com> Subject: Great American Beer Fest Did anyone out there in HB-Digest Land get a chance to make it to the Great American Beer Fest in Denver this past weekend? I got to go, but only made it one night (therefore, I missed out on a lot of the beers that were there). There were over 700 beers there this year (I think I tried to taste them all!!!). I was curious to hear what others might have to say regarding favorite beers/brewers, etc. Personally, I tried one from somewhere back east (I think) called Pumpkin Spice that I fell in love with...(the trick was that it had no pumpkin at all in it). Either post responses or feel free to mail me directly, Michael Howe howe at gp_sparc45.gwl.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 92 17:38:00 CDT From: whg at tellabs.com Subject: Extract gravity While formulated in a recipe today I realized how empirical most of my OG estimates are when doing an extract/partial mash recipe. For mashed grains I know that I get 28-30 pts/lb/gal. However, I don't even really have a rule of thumb measure for extracts. Obviously each brand will vary and I wonder if anyone out there has a chart that says for lists pts/lb/gal for different brands of syrup and DME. I'd guess that DME gives about 38 pts/lb/gal and most liquid extract give around 34 pts/lb/gal. However, again rather intuitively, I think I get the about the same O.G. using say 2 4lb. cans of Alexanders or 2 3.3lb cans of M&F. Anybody out there got any info, Walter Walter Gude || whg at tellabs.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 92 10:45:04 CDT From: whg at tellabs.com Subject: Trappist Ale (?) This coming weekend I'm planning a brew that I hope will be a something close to a trappist ale. Being the first beer of the new brewing season, I'm doing a "quick and dirty" partial mash. I'm using the Belgian malts for the first time. The grains will be: 1.0 lb Biscuit malt 0.5 lb Belgian Crystal (what is this 50L) 0.5 lb Special B (120L ?) 0.5 lb Roasted Chocolate I'll mash the above for 45 minutes or so and then sparge. And boil with 6 lb of Northwestern Amber Extract and 1 lb of pure dried wheat extract. The expected OG will thus be in the 1.055 to 1.065 range. Hopping rate will be 35 IBUs worth (? this may be wrong but I'll look it up) of Tettinger pellets and Kent golding plugs, at least three additions with a Tettinger steep and a Golding dry hop. I popped my belgian ale Wyeast and will make up at least a 16 oz starter around thursday (brewing saturday night). This will be a full boil with an emmersion chill. So what does the collective consciousness think? Will this be at all in right general style? (this is an off the top of the head recipe) Will the biscuit malt have enough enzymes for a happy mash? does it matter? should I use some pale malt? I don't know if Golding dry hops are appropriate but they're spicy finish seems like it should be OK. Besides they're sooo good I can't resist. I'm I just hopelessly lame? ;-} Thanks in advance for any comments/advice, Walt Walter Gude || whg at tellabs.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 92 23:17 CDT From: arf at ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling) Subject: Wood, Hops, To: Homebrew Digest Fm: Jack Schmidling >From: "Roger Deschner" <U52983 at UICVM.UIC.EDU> >I will always remember my evening at Zum Uerige, drinking perhaps the best beer I have ever had, and watching the staff roll the wooden barrels out to be dispensed by gravity. (I wonder if the wooden barrels have something to do with the magical flavor. When I was in Munich, I noted that the Hofbrau Haus did the same thing and it would depend on your opinion of that beer. I suspect it is not considered to have any magical flavor :) >From: garti at mrg.xyplex.com (Mark Garti mrgarti at xyplex.com) >anyone ever put hops in their liquid yeast starters? All the time. >if so why? Because my starter is a pint drawn from the previous batch after chilling. It is my last hydrometer sample and instead of risking contaminating by pouring it back, I use it to start the next batch (after sterilizing of course). Aside from that, it gives the yeast a foretaste of what it will be doing soon in a big way. Seems like a reasonable thing to do. There are those who would dilute it down to about 1.020 but I quit doing it when it didn't seem to make any difference. >From: Pierre Jelenc at cunixf.cc.columbia.edu >The colonies growing from the Champagne yeast package described in my previous post have now been examined by several knowledgeable people in the micro department. The large colonies appear to be healthy Saccharomyces, but the small ones are in fact bacteria!! You are violating net protocol. Wyeast is NEVER contaminated. > They appear to be some sort of bacillus, thin rods which aggregate easily, clearly not E. coli or salmonella. Just for the record, E coli is a bacillus. >The consensus is that it should not be too surprizing that bacilli grow poorly on YPD plates, especially since many if not most are anaerobes and these plates were aerobic. E. coli is aerobic and faculative anerobe. >There are now two problems, therefore: where does the contamination come from, and why were there yeast both in the inner and outer compartments. It's a conspiracy :) js Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #985, 10/07/92