From mavityre at comcast.net  Wed Feb  1 00:16:49 2006
From: mavityre at comcast.net (Brian)
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 21:16:49 -0800
Subject: [Cheese] Mold, good and bad
References: <19a.44be7015.3110e431@aol.com> <43E032A0.2040400@mc.net>
Message-ID: <001301c626ee$b4db9840$0201a8c0@YOURWX88VYRXO>

Jack,
Need your help.  I asked this a few days ago but never heard anything.
I have some black mold growing under the wax on my first cheddar.  I 
mistakenly used thermophilic starter but it seems to have formed well. 
Problem is, after 1 month I have noticed some black mold under the wax.  I 
have cut out the bad spots and re-waxed.  Had to do that again today after 
another week.  Is it a losing battle or should I just eat it now?
Another thing, my Stilton is doing beuatifuly, my gorgonzola from 3 weeks 
ago hasn't produced any mold yet.  Is it possible to resurect the mold on 
this by making a mold "wash" over the cheese?

Brian



From erica.schechter at gmail.com  Wed Feb  1 00:34:57 2006
From: erica.schechter at gmail.com (Erica Schechter)
Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 00:34:57 -0500
Subject: [Cheese] Rennet longevity
In-Reply-To: <43E039C7.60307@mc.net>
References: <9d3206c0601311525p44cd2c30p807f44251a9192f1@mail.gmail.com>
	<43E039C7.60307@mc.net>
Message-ID: <9d3206c0601312134v44b93ef8k5ccec7c364d536d7@mail.gmail.com>

I agree that it's a lot, but the bang for the buck is unbeatable. I
can get 2oz for $6.40 or a pint for $18.50. So I was trying to figure
out if I'd go through more than 6oz of rennet in the time it would
take for it to go bad. Still not sure...

--Erica

On 1/31/06, Jack Schmidling <arf at mc.net> wrote:
> Erica Schechter wrote:
> > How long can rennet last in the fridge? I need to order more, and I am
> > trying to figure out if I use it quickly enough to merit the purchase
> > of a pint.
>
> A pint is a lot of renet but it will certainly keep for a year.
>
> js
>
> --
> PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm
> Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Cheese mailing list
> Cheese at hbd.org
> http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese
>



From erica.schechter at gmail.com  Wed Feb  1 00:37:01 2006
From: erica.schechter at gmail.com (Erica Schechter)
Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 00:37:01 -0500
Subject: [Cheese] Chevre balls in oil recipe?
In-Reply-To: <FEEAJLCCMBNHNFHOGPAGMEDGGAAA.emerald@hawk.igs.net>
References: <FEEAJLCCMBNHNFHOGPAGMEDGGAAA.emerald@hawk.igs.net>
Message-ID: <9d3206c0601312137s6c28aeadgfc65a9ce54883a59@mail.gmail.com>

Hi there,

Are you looking for a recipe for the cheese itself, or for the herb blends?

--Erica

On 1/31/06, Miskin Meadows <emerald at hawk.igs.net> wrote:
>
> Hi Everyone,
>
> I have been experimenting with my cheese again this am and have been trying
> to come up with some new ideas for spice mixes and herb mixes. I was looking
> for a recipe for those little balls of chevre packed in oil and herbs or
> spices in a mason jar? A friend makes them but she is in Vancouver at the
> moment so I can't ask her her recipe so I thought I would ask here. My
> youngest daughter loves this stuff and keeps asking me to make it for her
> and wont eat goats cheese any other way.. Can anyone help ?
>
> Regards,
> Bev & John
> Miskin Meadows Farm
> http://www.hawk.igs.net/~emerald/index.html
> Owner VankleekHill_Freecycle
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VankleekHill_Freecycle
>
> _______________________________________________
> Cheese mailing list
> Cheese at hbd.org
> http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese
>
>
>



From erica.schechter at gmail.com  Wed Feb  1 00:38:04 2006
From: erica.schechter at gmail.com (Erica Schechter)
Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 00:38:04 -0500
Subject: [Cheese] multiagency task force
In-Reply-To: <9c71ba430601311400o27bd62f3g30af0c92554f6056@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9c71ba430601311400o27bd62f3g30af0c92554f6056@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9d3206c0601312138q664d7fcar69b9176b1736f1d5@mail.gmail.com>

> I can understand the cheese being seized for not having a license to sell
> it, but how accurate are the claims of salmonella/listeria risk?

We all do purification rites of our cheese molds using raw chickens, right?
--Erica

On 1/31/06, Eric Denman <edenman at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey all,
>
> just saw this article, thought it was interesting:
>
> http://www.dailybulletin.com/news/ci_3445671
>
> I can understand the cheese being seized for not having a license to sell
> it, but how accurate are the claims of salmonella/listeria risk?  I thought
> listeria was only a risk in soft, unpasteurized cheeses...is the same true
> of salmonella?
>
> side note: I've got a gouda air-drying at the moment, planning to age it in
> wax in my (new, craigslist obtained) cheese fridge for 6months.  We'll see
> if I can hold out that long.
>
> Eric
>
> _______________________________________________
> Cheese mailing list
> Cheese at hbd.org
> http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese
>
>
>



From erica.schechter at gmail.com  Wed Feb  1 00:46:43 2006
From: erica.schechter at gmail.com (Erica Schechter)
Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 00:46:43 -0500
Subject: [Cheese] Mold, good and bad
In-Reply-To: <001301c626ee$b4db9840$0201a8c0@YOURWX88VYRXO>
References: <19a.44be7015.3110e431@aol.com> <43E032A0.2040400@mc.net>
	<001301c626ee$b4db9840$0201a8c0@YOURWX88VYRXO>
Message-ID: <9d3206c0601312146vf964b8ag4c14b4ac6feabb48@mail.gmail.com>

Try rubbing those spots with salt water or vinegar. It'll retard mold growth.

--Erica

On 2/1/06, Brian <mavityre at comcast.net> wrote:
> Jack,
> Need your help.  I asked this a few days ago but never heard anything.
> I have some black mold growing under the wax on my first cheddar.  I
> mistakenly used thermophilic starter but it seems to have formed well.
> Problem is, after 1 month I have noticed some black mold under the wax.  I
> have cut out the bad spots and re-waxed.  Had to do that again today after
> another week.  Is it a losing battle or should I just eat it now?
> Another thing, my Stilton is doing beuatifuly, my gorgonzola from 3 weeks
> ago hasn't produced any mold yet.  Is it possible to resurect the mold on
> this by making a mold "wash" over the cheese?
>
> Brian
>
> _______________________________________________
> Cheese mailing list
> Cheese at hbd.org
> http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese
>



From edenman at gmail.com  Wed Feb  1 00:54:39 2006
From: edenman at gmail.com (Eric Denman)
Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 00:54:39 -0500
Subject: [Cheese] multiagency task force
Message-ID: <9c71ba430601312154s5b3bacfbt83ee7371865b299c@mail.gmail.com>

I assume that it the difference between the feds coming to raid my 2 gallon
cheese production facility (aka the kitchen in my basement apartment) is
that I'm not selling my cheese.  Quick google search turns up this (for NH,
but I'm sure every state has their own):

http://www.dhhs.nh.gov/DHHS/DAIRYSANITATION/FAQs/default.htm

As long as they stay out of my kitchen, I don't mind them making sure people
selling cheese have their facilities inspected...I wouldn't want to buy
"pasteurized milk" from a small farmer to later find out that his
pasteurization process wasn't killing all the bacteria it should.

That said, it's pretty hilarious that it was a "multiagency task force"
sting...I bet they busted down the doors with as much bravado as possible
for an FDA official.

I wonder if I could buy their cheese presses at the repo auction?

Message: 6
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 22:31:09 -0600
From: Jack Schmidling <arf at mc.net>
Subject: Re: [Cheese] multiagency task force
To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" <cheese at hbd.org>
Message-ID: <43E0398D.9080904 at mc.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Eric Denman wrote:
> Hey all,
>
> just saw this article, thought it was interesting:
>
> http://www.dailybulletin.com/news/ci_3445671
>
> I can understand the cheese being seized for not having a license to sell
> it, but how accurate are the claims of salmonella/listeria risk?  I
thought
> listeria was only a risk in soft, unpasteurized cheeses...is the same true
> of salmonella?

My guess is it's ignorant hype but I am more interested in knowing what
"illegally produced cheese" is.

Do we have to worry about the jack-booted thugs in our kitchens on
cheese day now?

Just another example of the worst government money can buy.

I suppose busting cheesemakers is easier than finding Osama.

js
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From emerald at hawk.igs.net  Wed Feb  1 07:04:39 2006
From: emerald at hawk.igs.net (Miskin Meadows)
Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 07:04:39 -0500
Subject: [Cheese] Cheese balls in oil
In-Reply-To: <mailman.281.1138772811.2625.cheese@hbd.org>
Message-ID: <FEEAJLCCMBNHNFHOGPAGIEFLGAAA.emerald@hawk.igs.net>

Hi Erica,

I have the chevre made but I am looking for the herb recipe that is used to
flavor the cheese and oil . Also I wondered if it has to be Olive oil? could
it be say grapeseed oil instead or a flavored oil that I make myself?


Regards,
Bev & John
Miskin Meadows Farm
http://www.hawk.igs.net/~emerald/index.html
Owner VankleekHill_Freecycle
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VankleekHill_Freecycle




--
Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.17/227 - Release Date: 11/01/2006



From arf at mc.net  Wed Feb  1 08:32:29 2006
From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling)
Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2006 07:32:29 -0600
Subject: [Cheese] multiagency task force
In-Reply-To: <9c71ba430601312154s5b3bacfbt83ee7371865b299c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9c71ba430601312154s5b3bacfbt83ee7371865b299c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <43E0B86D.3060607@mc.net>

Eric Denman wrote:
> I assume that it the difference between the feds coming to raid my 2 gallon
> cheese production facility (aka the kitchen in my basement apartment) is
> that I'm not selling my cheese.

Right but it was illegally made cheese described in the article. It said 
nothing about busting them for selling it.

js

-- 
PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm
Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com



From erica.schechter at gmail.com  Wed Feb  1 09:47:10 2006
From: erica.schechter at gmail.com (Erica Schechter)
Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 09:47:10 -0500
Subject: [Cheese] Cheese balls in oil
In-Reply-To: <FEEAJLCCMBNHNFHOGPAGIEFLGAAA.emerald@hawk.igs.net>
References: <mailman.281.1138772811.2625.cheese@hbd.org>
	<FEEAJLCCMBNHNFHOGPAGIEFLGAAA.emerald@hawk.igs.net>
Message-ID: <9d3206c0602010647g50d00480qee7289a39b6dc7f@mail.gmail.com>

Ah, okay. I don't know of a proprietary spice blend, so I can only
tell you what I use. I like to flavor the cheese with fresh dill,
fresh chives, hot paprika, cracked black pepper, and a smidge of
garlic. I like to flavor the oil with crushed red pepper, garlic,
peppercorns, lemon zest, and thyme.

This is all a matter of personal taste, of course. Maybe you could try
calling whoever has sold them to you in the past?

Good luck!

--Erica

On 2/1/06, Miskin Meadows <emerald at hawk.igs.net> wrote:
> Hi Erica,
>
> I have the chevre made but I am looking for the herb recipe that is used to
> flavor the cheese and oil . Also I wondered if it has to be Olive oil? could
> it be say grapeseed oil instead or a flavored oil that I make myself?
>
>
> Regards,
> Bev & John
> Miskin Meadows Farm
> http://www.hawk.igs.net/~emerald/index.html
> Owner VankleekHill_Freecycle
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VankleekHill_Freecycle
>
>
>
>
> --
> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.17/227 - Release Date: 11/01/2006
>
> _______________________________________________
> Cheese mailing list
> Cheese at hbd.org
> http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese
>



From pplunk at saludypaz.org  Wed Feb  1 09:58:09 2006
From: pplunk at saludypaz.org (Salud y Paz Guatemala)
Date: Wed,  1 Feb 2006 06:58:09 -0800
Subject: [Cheese] unsubscribe does not work
Message-ID: <01020632.25131@webbox.com>


Will the moderator please take me off this list. I have tried
unsubscribing as described below, but it does not work. This
is now becoming SPAM!!!!



-------
Health and peace,

Phil Plunk, DDS
Project Salud y Paz
Guatemala
Website  www.saludypaz.org

>--- Original Message ---
>From: Erica Schechter <erica.schechter at gmail.com>
>To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" <cheese at hbd.org>
>Date: 2/1/06 8:47:10 AM
>
Ah, okay. I don't know of a proprietary spice blend, so I can
only
>tell you what I use. I like to flavor the cheese with fresh
dill,
>fresh chives, hot paprika, cracked black pepper, and a smidge
of
>garlic. I like to flavor the oil with crushed red pepper, garlic,
>peppercorns, lemon zest, and thyme.
>
>This is all a matter of personal taste, of course. Maybe you
could try
>calling whoever has sold them to you in the past?
>
>Good luck!
>
>--Erica
>
>On 2/1/06, Miskin Meadows <emerald at hawk.igs.net> wrote:
>> Hi Erica,
>>
>> I have the chevre made but I am looking for the herb recipe
that is used to
>> flavor the cheese and oil . Also I wondered if it has to be
Olive oil? could
>> it be say grapeseed oil instead or a flavored oil that I make
myself?
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>> Bev & John
>> Miskin Meadows Farm
>> http://www.hawk.igs.net/~emerald/index.html
>> Owner VankleekHill_Freecycle
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VankleekHill_Freecycle
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.17/227 - Release
Date: 11/01/2006
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Cheese mailing list
>> Cheese at hbd.org
>> http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Cheese mailing list
>Cheese at hbd.org
>http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese
>
>




From mavityre at comcast.net  Wed Feb  1 10:03:49 2006
From: mavityre at comcast.net (Brian)
Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 07:03:49 -0800
Subject: [Cheese] multiagency task force
References: <9c71ba430601312154s5b3bacfbt83ee7371865b299c@mail.gmail.com>
	<43E0B86D.3060607@mc.net>
Message-ID: <000f01c62740$b4f3bae0$0201a8c0@YOURWX88VYRXO>

Can someone direct me to this article?
I seem to only get half the posts and half of mine show up.

Thanks

Brian
mavityre at comcast.net

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jack Schmidling" <arf at mc.net>
To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" <cheese at hbd.org>
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 5:32 AM
Subject: Re: [Cheese] multiagency task force


> Eric Denman wrote:
>> I assume that it the difference between the feds coming to raid my 2 
>> gallon
>> cheese production facility (aka the kitchen in my basement apartment) is
>> that I'm not selling my cheese.
>
> Right but it was illegally made cheese described in the article. It said
> nothing about busting them for selling it.
>
> js
>
> -- 
> PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm
> Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Cheese mailing list
> Cheese at hbd.org
> http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese 



From dean_crabtree_1958 at yahoo.com  Wed Feb  1 10:53:45 2006
From: dean_crabtree_1958 at yahoo.com (dean crabtree)
Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 07:53:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Cheese] multiagency task force
In-Reply-To: <9c71ba430601312154s5b3bacfbt83ee7371865b299c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20060201155345.96453.qmail@web36202.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Eric Denman <edenman at gmail.com> wrote: "http://www.dhhs.nh.gov/DHHS/DAIRYSANITATION/FAQs/default.htm"
   
  So if I read the New Hampshire's reg short sheet right, even a Safgard 2-gallon pastuerizer is not acceptable because it is a "home pastuerizer."  NH does allow a farm to sell raw milk or cream directly to a consumer if the proper notices are posted.
   
  Being in Texas, I did a quick search and the bullet points here are stainless steel, stainless steel, stainless steel, and very expensive equipment.  I would guess that the Kraft lobby wants to keep it all locked up.
   
  And ya know, since all those authorities in that article didn't have a clue where "the cheese was being sold" the two ranchers might very well have simply been making cheese for their own consumption.  Maybe, and perhaps for a few friends.
   
  I think it's like the gubmint allowing 200 gallons of homebrew and 200 gallons of homemade wine, but not a drop of distillant.  If they can't regulate it, they can't make money off of it, and you're S.O.L..
   
  Oh man, don't get me started . . . 
   
  All the best,
   
  Dean C.

		
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
 With a free 1 GB, there's more in store with Yahoo! Mail.
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From arf at mc.net  Wed Feb  1 12:29:27 2006
From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling)
Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2006 11:29:27 -0600
Subject: [Cheese] Mold, good and bad
In-Reply-To: <001301c626ee$b4db9840$0201a8c0@YOURWX88VYRXO>
References: <19a.44be7015.3110e431@aol.com> <43E032A0.2040400@mc.net>
	<001301c626ee$b4db9840$0201a8c0@YOURWX88VYRXO>
Message-ID: <43E0EFF7.50005@mc.net>

Brian wrote:
> Jack,
> Need your help.  I asked this a few days ago but never heard anything.

Seems to me you received lots of responses.

> I have some black mold growing under the wax on my first cheddar.

If it seems to be penetrating, gouge it out and fill the hole with hot wax.

> I 
> mistakenly used thermophilic starter but it seems to have formed well. 
> Problem is, after 1 month I have noticed some black mold under the wax.  I 
> have cut out the bad spots and re-waxed.  Had to do that again today after 
> another week.  Is it a losing battle or should I just eat it now?

It is not likely to win any prizes if you did not cook it at the thermo 
temp and may not have sufficient acid for long term ripening.  It's your 
call but if it's eatable now you can eat it or sit on it and see what 
happens.

> Another thing, my Stilton is doing beuatifuly, my gorgonzola from 3 weeks 
> ago hasn't produced any mold yet.  Is it possible to resurect the mold on 
> this by making a mold "wash" over the cheese?

I think someone suggested stacking the two which seemed like a good idea 
to me.  Also, you don't really know what is going on inside unless you 
cut it.  I presume you punctured it properly to allow air in?

This stuff comes with experience and hopefully we learn from our 
failures.  I used to cut my cheeses in half after 30-60 days when first 
learning.  You can re-wax one half for long term and sample the other 
half.  Just cover the cut end with plastic wrap between samplings.

js

-- 
PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm
Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com



From arf at mc.net  Wed Feb  1 12:38:17 2006
From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling)
Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2006 11:38:17 -0600
Subject: [Cheese] unsubscribe does not work
In-Reply-To: <01020632.25131@webbox.com>
References: <01020632.25131@webbox.com>
Message-ID: <43E0F209.2020207@mc.net>

Salud y Paz Guatemala wrote:
> Will the moderator please take me off this list. I have tried
> unsubscribing as described below, but it does not work. This
> is now becoming SPAM!!!!

There is no one with the above name on the list.  Nor is there a pplunk 
which seems to be your email.

I don't know what to remove without more specifics.

js


-- 
PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm
Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com



From arf at mc.net  Wed Feb  1 12:42:18 2006
From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling)
Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2006 11:42:18 -0600
Subject: [Cheese] multiagency task force
In-Reply-To: <20060201155345.96453.qmail@web36202.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20060201155345.96453.qmail@web36202.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <43E0F2FA.2080203@mc.net>

dean crabtree wrote:
> Eric Denman <edenman at gmail.com> wrote:
> "http://www.dhhs.nh.gov/DHHS/DAIRYSANITATION/FAQs/default.htm"

> Being in Texas, I did a quick search and the bullet points here are
> stainless steel, stainless steel, stainless steel, and very expensive
> equipment.  I would guess that the Kraft lobby wants to keep it all
> locked up.


Or perhaps the stainless steel lobby?  More likely a jobs program for 
jack-booted thugs.... they vote.

It is truly pathetic when one considers the barriers to small business 
these days.  I guess they don't vote.

js

-- 
PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm
Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com



From mavityre at comcast.net  Wed Feb  1 13:59:09 2006
From: mavityre at comcast.net (Brian)
Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 10:59:09 -0800
Subject: [Cheese] Mold, good and bad
References: <19a.44be7015.3110e431@aol.com>
	<43E032A0.2040400@mc.net><001301c626ee$b4db9840$0201a8c0@YOURWX88VYRXO>
	<43E0EFF7.50005@mc.net>
Message-ID: <000f01c62761$9508f120$0201a8c0@YOURWX88VYRXO>

Thanks for the info Jack.
Yea, weird, I didn't get any responses on my email.......  might be my 
filter but I check everything that comes in.. Probably my bad.

You answered another question I was going to ask and that is I can cut into 
a wheel and re-wax.

Thanks again.

Brian



From jiladeh at ameritech.net  Wed Feb  1 17:09:24 2006
From: jiladeh at ameritech.net (Dehaven James W)
Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 14:09:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Cheese] multiagency task force
In-Reply-To: <20060201155345.96453.qmail@web36202.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20060201220924.11095.qmail@web80408.mail.yahoo.com>

I always worry when a Texan talks about bullet points.

dean crabtree <dean_crabtree_1958 at yahoo.com> wrote:    Eric Denman <edenman at gmail.com> wrote: "http://www.dhhs.nh.gov/DHHS/DAIRYSANITATION/FAQs/default.htm"
   
  So if I read the New Hampshire's reg short sheet right, even a Safgard 2-gallon pastuerizer is not acceptable because it is a "home pastuerizer."  NH does allow a farm to sell raw milk or cream directly to a consumer if the proper notices are posted.
   
  Being in Texas, I did a quick search and the bullet points here are stainless steel, stainless steel, stainless steel, and very expensive equipment.  I would guess that the Kraft lobby wants to keep it all locked up.
   
  And ya know, since all those authorities in that article didn't have a clue where "the cheese was being sold" the two ranchers might very well have simply been making cheese for their own consumpti! on.  Maybe, and perhaps for a few friends.
   
  I think it's like the gubmint allowing 200 gallons of homebrew and 200 gallons of homemade wine, but not a drop of distillant.  If they can't regulate it, they can't make money off of it, and you're S.O.L..
   
  Oh man, don't get me started . . . 
   
  All the best,
   
  Dean C.
    
---------------------------------
  Do you Yahoo!?
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From mavityre at comcast.net  Wed Feb  1 22:24:50 2006
From: mavityre at comcast.net (Brian)
Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 19:24:50 -0800
Subject: [Cheese] Mold, good and bad
References: <19a.44be7015.3110e431@aol.com>
	<43E032A0.2040400@mc.net><001301c626ee$b4db9840$0201a8c0@YOURWX88VYRXO>
	<43E0EFF7.50005@mc.net>
Message-ID: <002e01c627a8$39cd1b50$0201a8c0@YOURWX88VYRXO>

>
> I think someone suggested stacking the two which seemed like a good idea
> to me.  Also, you don't really know what is going on inside unless you
> cut it.  I presume you punctured it properly to allow air in?
>
> This stuff comes with experience and hopefully we learn from our
> failures.  I used to cut my cheeses in half after 30-60 days when first
> learning.  You can re-wax one half for long term and sample the other
> half.  Just cover the cut end with plastic wrap between samplings.

Hi Jack.
Thanks again.  I did put the Stilton on top of the Gorgonzola and made sure 
the holes in the Gorgonzola were still open.  In fact I put a few more in 
since it seems a few sealed themselves being so wet and all.  As I drew the 
sterile skewere out, I smelled and tasted it.  Yep.  It's got blue in it!!
The recipe called for 2 batches with the early batch going in the middle. 
I'm guessing the salt rub is what's keeping the little moldys from forming 
on the outside but inside, I think we're cookin'.

Brian



From yikezilla at yahoo.com  Wed Feb  1 22:26:00 2006
From: yikezilla at yahoo.com (M. M.)
Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 19:26:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Cheese] Rennet longevity
In-Reply-To: <9d3206c0601312134v44b93ef8k5ccec7c364d536d7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20060202032600.17656.qmail@web36501.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I bet you could, if you started making "bath tub cheese"...
 :)

Marcia

--- Erica Schechter <erica.schechter at gmail.com> wrote:

> I agree that it's a lot, but the bang for the buck is
> unbeatable. I
> can get 2oz for $6.40 or a pint for $18.50. So I was
> trying to figure
> out if I'd go through more than 6oz of rennet in the time
> it would
> take for it to go bad. Still not sure...
> 
> --Erica
> 
> On 1/31/06, Jack Schmidling <arf at mc.net> wrote:
> > Erica Schechter wrote:
> > > How long can rennet last in the fridge? I need to
> order more, and I am
> > > trying to figure out if I use it quickly enough to
> merit the purchase
> > > of a pint.
> >
> > A pint is a lot of renet but it will certainly keep for
> a year.
> >
> > js
> >
> > --
> > PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm
> > Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver
> http://schmidling.com
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Cheese mailing list
> > Cheese at hbd.org
> > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Cheese mailing list
> Cheese at hbd.org
> http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 


From mavityre at comcast.net  Wed Feb  1 22:32:12 2006
From: mavityre at comcast.net (Brian)
Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 19:32:12 -0800
Subject: [Cheese] Rennet longevity
References: <20060202032600.17656.qmail@web36501.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000401c627a9$4145af40$0201a8c0@YOURWX88VYRXO>

Isn't that 'government" cheese?
Joking aside, I had some of that in my younger years.  Not bad.  Not as good 
as the "government" chicken in a can.  Made great burritos.

Brian

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "M. M." <yikezilla at yahoo.com>
To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" <cheese at hbd.org>
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 7:26 PM
Subject: Re: [Cheese] Rennet longevity


>I bet you could, if you started making "bath tub cheese"...
> :)
>
> Marcia
>
> --- Erica Schechter <erica.schechter at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I agree that it's a lot, but the bang for the buck is
>> unbeatable. I
>> can get 2oz for $6.40 or a pint for $18.50. So I was
>> trying to figure
>> out if I'd go through more than 6oz of rennet in the time
>> it would
>> take for it to go bad. Still not sure...
>>
>> --Erica
>>
>> On 1/31/06, Jack Schmidling <arf at mc.net> wrote:
>> > Erica Schechter wrote:
>> > > How long can rennet last in the fridge? I need to
>> order more, and I am
>> > > trying to figure out if I use it quickly enough to
>> merit the purchase
>> > > of a pint.
>> >
>> > A pint is a lot of renet but it will certainly keep for
>> a year.
>> >
>> > js
>> >
>> > --
>> > PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm
>> > Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver
>> http://schmidling.com
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Cheese mailing list
>> > Cheese at hbd.org
>> > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese
>> >
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Cheese mailing list
>> Cheese at hbd.org
>> http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese
>>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
> Cheese mailing list
> Cheese at hbd.org
> http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese 



From mavityre at comcast.net  Wed Feb  1 22:54:23 2006
From: mavityre at comcast.net (Brian)
Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 19:54:23 -0800
Subject: [Cheese] Mold, good and bad
References: <19a.44be7015.3110e431@aol.com>
	<43E032A0.2040400@mc.net><001301c626ee$b4db9840$0201a8c0@YOURWX88VYRXO>
	<43E0EFF7.50005@mc.net>
Message-ID: <001301c627ac$5ad56330$0201a8c0@YOURWX88VYRXO>

OK Jack.

One more.

I have noticed two different variations to aging blue (bleu) cheese.
The recipe I have is out of Ricki Carroll's book and say's I should use the 
back of a knife to scrape off mold etc.. every week or so.
I see on the "net" of somebody leaving it to completely mold over and then, 
4 weeks later, pierce holes in it.  Still leaving the mold on the outside.
Click here:
http://www.cheesemaking.com/includes/modules/jWallace/ChsPgs/1Stilton/Index.html
In your years of wisdom, what is your advice?

Thanks

Brian



From arf at mc.net  Wed Feb  1 23:42:01 2006
From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling)
Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2006 22:42:01 -0600
Subject: [Cheese] Mold, good and bad
In-Reply-To: <001301c627ac$5ad56330$0201a8c0@YOURWX88VYRXO>
References: <19a.44be7015.3110e431@aol.com>	<43E032A0.2040400@mc.net><001301c626ee$b4db9840$0201a8c0@YOURWX88VYRXO>	<43E0EFF7.50005@mc.net>
	<001301c627ac$5ad56330$0201a8c0@YOURWX88VYRXO>
Message-ID: <43E18D99.3030309@mc.net>

Brian wrote:

> I have noticed two different variations to aging blue (bleu) cheese.
> The recipe I have is out of Ricki Carroll's book and say's I should use the 
> back of a knife to scrape off mold etc.. every week or so.
> I see on the "net" of somebody leaving it to completely mold over and then, 
> 4 weeks later, pierce holes in it.  Still leaving the mold on the outside.
> Click here:
> http://www.cheesemaking.com/includes/modules/jWallace/ChsPgs/1Stilton/Index.html
> In your years of wisdom, what is your advice?

Seems like there's a million ways to skin a cat.  Making moldy cheese is 
a lot easier than skinning a cat.  Providing the proper environment is a 
lot more important than how you nurture the mold.

My advice is do what works best for your setup.  Just keep in mind that 
blue mold is aerobic and needs oxygen and you can not poke too many 
holes in it or too often.

js



-- 
PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm
Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com



From mavityre at comcast.net  Thu Feb  2 00:17:43 2006
From: mavityre at comcast.net (Brian)
Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 21:17:43 -0800
Subject: [Cheese] Mold, good and bad
References: <19a.44be7015.3110e431@aol.com>	<43E032A0.2040400@mc.net><001301c626ee$b4db9840$0201a8c0@YOURWX88VYRXO>	<43E0EFF7.50005@mc.net><001301c627ac$5ad56330$0201a8c0@YOURWX88VYRXO>
	<43E18D99.3030309@mc.net>
Message-ID: <000601c627b7$ff134830$0201a8c0@YOURWX88VYRXO>

Thanks.
Until my next problem............................

Brian

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jack Schmidling" <arf at mc.net>
To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" <cheese at hbd.org>
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 8:42 PM
Subject: Re: [Cheese] Mold, good and bad


> Brian wrote:
>
>> I have noticed two different variations to aging blue (bleu) cheese.
>> The recipe I have is out of Ricki Carroll's book and say's I should use 
>> the
>> back of a knife to scrape off mold etc.. every week or so.
>> I see on the "net" of somebody leaving it to completely mold over and 
>> then,
>> 4 weeks later, pierce holes in it.  Still leaving the mold on the 
>> outside.
>> Click here:
>> http://www.cheesemaking.com/includes/modules/jWallace/ChsPgs/1Stilton/Index.html
>> In your years of wisdom, what is your advice?
>
> Seems like there's a million ways to skin a cat.  Making moldy cheese is
> a lot easier than skinning a cat.  Providing the proper environment is a
> lot more important than how you nurture the mold.
>
> My advice is do what works best for your setup.  Just keep in mind that
> blue mold is aerobic and needs oxygen and you can not poke too many
> holes in it or too often.
>
> js
>
>
>
> -- 
> PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm
> Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Cheese mailing list
> Cheese at hbd.org
> http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese 



From jmurren at verizon.net  Thu Feb  2 08:47:57 2006
From: jmurren at verizon.net (JOHN MURREN)
Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 05:47:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Cheese] multiagency task force
In-Reply-To: <20060201155345.96453.qmail@web36202.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20060202134757.52733.qmail@web84012.mail.dcn.yahoo.com>



dean crabtree <dean_crabtree_1958 at yahoo.com> wrote:
    I think it's like the gubmint allowing 200 gallons of homebrew and 200 gallons of homemade wine, but not a drop of distillant.  If they can't regulate it, they can't make money off of it, and you're S.O.L..
   
  Oh man, don't get me started . . . 
   
  All the best,
   
  Dean C.
    
---------------------------------
    Worked in the "shadow bureaucracy" all my life, and there I learned that "... it's better to ask forgiveness than permission".  Perhaps 1% become victims, but in the end, it's a small price to pay for avoiding a lifetime of frustration and hassle!
  John

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From jiladeh at ameritech.net  Thu Feb  2 16:13:38 2006
From: jiladeh at ameritech.net (Dehaven James W)
Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 13:13:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Cheese] Cheese balls in oil
In-Reply-To: <FEEAJLCCMBNHNFHOGPAGIEFLGAAA.emerald@hawk.igs.net>
Message-ID: <20060202211338.79032.qmail@web80405.mail.yahoo.com>

Is there a trick into forming the balls?  I thought chevre would be softer, more like a spread

Miskin Meadows <emerald at hawk.igs.net> wrote:  Hi Erica,

I have the chevre made but I am looking for the herb recipe that is used to
flavor the cheese and oil . Also I wondered if it has to be Olive oil? could
it be say grapeseed oil instead or a flavored oil that I make myself?


Regards,
Bev & John
Miskin Meadows Farm
http://www.hawk.igs.net/~emerald/index.html
Owner VankleekHill_Freecycle
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VankleekHill_Freecycle




--
Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.17/227 - Release Date: 11/01/2006

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http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese


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From erica.schechter at gmail.com  Thu Feb  2 16:42:23 2006
From: erica.schechter at gmail.com (Erica Schechter)
Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 16:42:23 -0500
Subject: [Cheese] Cheese balls in oil
In-Reply-To: <20060202211338.79032.qmail@web80405.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <FEEAJLCCMBNHNFHOGPAGIEFLGAAA.emerald@hawk.igs.net>
	<20060202211338.79032.qmail@web80405.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <9d3206c0602021342t456cdca3i377bf11cce389c4f@mail.gmail.com>

If you drain it longer, it's drier. Still soft, but solid rather than a spread.

--Erica

On 2/2/06, Dehaven James W <jiladeh at ameritech.net> wrote:
> Is there a trick into forming the balls?  I thought chevre would be softer,
> more like a spread
>
> Miskin Meadows <emerald at hawk.igs.net> wrote:
> Hi Erica,
>
> I have the chevre made but I am looking for the herb recipe that is used to
> flavor the cheese and oil . Also I wondered if it has to be Olive oil? could
> it be say grapeseed oil instead or a flavored oil that I make myself?
>
>
> Regards,
> Bev & John
> Miskin Meadows Farm
> http://www.hawk.igs.net/~emerald/index.html
> Owner VankleekHill_Freecycle
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VankleekHill_Freecycle
>
>
>
>
> --
> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.17/227 - Release Date: 11/01/2006
>
> _______________________________________________
> Cheese mailing list
> Cheese at hbd.org
> http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Cheese mailing list
> Cheese at hbd.org
> http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese
>
>
>



From emerald at hawk.igs.net  Fri Feb  3 12:30:34 2006
From: emerald at hawk.igs.net (Miskin Meadows)
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 12:30:34 -0500
Subject: [Cheese] answer for James re: chevre balls
In-Reply-To: <mailman.7.1138986001.8270.cheese@hbd.org>
Message-ID: <FEEAJLCCMBNHNFHOGPAGAENBGAAA.emerald@hawk.igs.net>

Hi James,

No mine isn't too soft it is more a medium consistency. I drain mine for
12-15 hours so that more of the whey is removed, much longer and then it
becomes too dry to make the balls from it.
I use one of those little melon ballers and they are just the prefect size.

Regards,
Bev & John
Miskin Meadows Farm
http://www.hawk.igs.net/~emerald/index.html
Owner VankleekHill_Freecycle
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VankleekHill_Freecycle




--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.0/249 - Release Date: 02/02/2006



From dsnyder at swlaw.edu  Fri Feb  3 13:18:44 2006
From: dsnyder at swlaw.edu (Doug Snyder)
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 10:18:44 -0800
Subject: [Cheese] A story about draining whey
In-Reply-To: <FEEAJLCCMBNHNFHOGPAGAENBGAAA.emerald@hawk.igs.net>
References: <FEEAJLCCMBNHNFHOGPAGAENBGAAA.emerald@hawk.igs.net>
Message-ID: <F5E8FEBC-EEE7-4B6A-9BFB-DF5DF177FE39@swlaw.edu>

I used to get much more whey in the bowl when I drained cheese.  Now  
I don't.  I couldn't figure it out until yesterday.  Two factors  
contributing to this phenomenon.  First, I forgot that I now live in  
a much drier climate.  More whey is evaporating than dripping, here  
in the deserts of southern California than it did in the humidity of  
southern Florida.  And the second factor is, I found my cat drinking  
the whey from the bowl on the top of the counter ;-)

Doug


From erica.schechter at gmail.com  Fri Feb  3 13:36:28 2006
From: erica.schechter at gmail.com (Erica Schechter)
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 13:36:28 -0500
Subject: [Cheese] Advanced book recommendations?
Message-ID: <9d3206c0602031036m257eddc5sefcea7142dd80fa7@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

I've read Ricki Carrol's book cover to cover, and made several
cheeses: soft, hard, pressed, mold ripened, you name it. I'm certainly
no expert, but I'd love to learn more of the science behind
cheesemaking so that I can understand the process at a much more
detailed level. I've read the relevant chapters in "On Food and
Cooking" by Harold McGee, but I'd like something more specialized. Can
anyone recommend something?

By the way...does anyone know why cheese that has acid added to it
(lemon juice, vinegar, citirc acid) does not melt? I can't find the
answer anywhere...

--Erica



From mavityre at comcast.net  Fri Feb  3 14:47:58 2006
From: mavityre at comcast.net (Brian)
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 11:47:58 -0800
Subject: [Cheese] A story about draining whey
References: <FEEAJLCCMBNHNFHOGPAGAENBGAAA.emerald@hawk.igs.net>
	<F5E8FEBC-EEE7-4B6A-9BFB-DF5DF177FE39@swlaw.edu>
Message-ID: <000401c628fa$bc554e00$0201a8c0@YOURWX88VYRXO>

Better the whey than the cheese!
My cat started dining on my Derby as it was drying.

Brian

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Doug Snyder" <dsnyder at swlaw.edu>
To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" <cheese at hbd.org>
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 10:18 AM
Subject: [Cheese] A story about draining whey


>I used to get much more whey in the bowl when I drained cheese.  Now  
> I don't.  I couldn't figure it out until yesterday.  Two factors  
> contributing to this phenomenon.  First, I forgot that I now live in  
> a much drier climate.  More whey is evaporating than dripping, here  
> in the deserts of southern California than it did in the humidity of  
> southern Florida.  And the second factor is, I found my cat drinking  
> the whey from the bowl on the top of the counter ;-)
> 
> Doug
> _______________________________________________
> Cheese mailing list
> Cheese at hbd.org
> http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese


From arf at mc.net  Fri Feb  3 15:35:05 2006
From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling)
Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2006 14:35:05 -0600
Subject: [Cheese] Advanced book recommendations?
In-Reply-To: <9d3206c0602031036m257eddc5sefcea7142dd80fa7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9d3206c0602031036m257eddc5sefcea7142dd80fa7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <43E3BE79.7020307@mc.net>

Erica Schechter wrote:

>I'd love to learn more of the science behind
> cheesemaking so that I can understand the process at a much more
> detailed level. I've read the relevant chapters in "On Food and
> Cooking" by Harold McGee, but I'd like something more specialized. Can
> anyone recommend something?

The two bibles of the industry/science are Cheesemaking Practice, Scott 
and Cheese and fermented milk Foods, Kosikowski.

They are expensive but you get what you pay for.

To ease the pain, you can find used editions at http://www.abebooks.com/

I have both and they represent the sum total of what I know about cheese 
aside from actual experience which frequently conflicts with all of the 
above.

js


-- 
PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm
Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com



From jiladeh at ameritech.net  Fri Feb  3 17:06:32 2006
From: jiladeh at ameritech.net (Dehaven James W)
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 14:06:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Cheese] answer for James re: chevre balls
In-Reply-To: <FEEAJLCCMBNHNFHOGPAGAENBGAAA.emerald@hawk.igs.net>
Message-ID: <20060203220632.47715.qmail@web80409.mail.yahoo.com>

thanks for specifics

Miskin Meadows <emerald at hawk.igs.net> wrote:  Hi James,

No mine isn't too soft it is more a medium consistency. I drain mine for
12-15 hours so that more of the whey is removed, much longer and then it
becomes too dry to make the balls from it.
I use one of those little melon ballers and they are just the prefect size.

Regards,
Bev & John
Miskin Meadows Farm
http://www.hawk.igs.net/~emerald/index.html
Owner VankleekHill_Freecycle
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VankleekHill_Freecycle




--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.0/249 - Release Date: 02/02/2006

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From rosemarygoddess at moonwiseherbs.com  Fri Feb  3 17:47:16 2006
From: rosemarygoddess at moonwiseherbs.com (Linda Conroy)
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 15:47:16 -0700
Subject: [Cheese] Cheese Digest, Vol 6, Issue 5
Message-ID: <200602032259.k13Mwm5r029085@brew.hbd.org>

> Greetings. As for the Chevre in oil, olive oil will keep the longest so is a really good choice. Seed oils go rancid more quickly than fruit oils ie olive, avacoda, coconut etc. And an herbal oil you make yourself would be fabulous. I like to add fresh herbs to the jar that I put the cheese in. I put the herb in the jar before I add the cheese, I then add the cheese and then the oil. I predominantly use olive oil. The nicer the oil, the better the flavor. 
happy cheese making
Linda


Send Cheese mailing list submissions to
> 	cheese at hbd.org
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> 	http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> 	cheese-request at hbd.org
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> 	cheese-owner at hbd.org
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Cheese digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>    1. Re: Cheese balls in oil (Dehaven James W)
>    2. Re: Cheese balls in oil (Erica Schechter)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 13:13:38 -0800 (PST)
> From: Dehaven James W <jiladeh at ameritech.net>
> Subject: Re: [Cheese] Cheese balls in oil
> To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" <cheese at hbd.org>
> Message-ID: <20060202211338.79032.qmail at web80405.mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> Is there a trick into forming the balls?  I thought chevre would be softer, more like a spread
> 
> Miskin Meadows <emerald at hawk.igs.net> wrote:  Hi Erica,
> 
> I have the chevre made but I am looking for the herb recipe that is used to
> flavor the cheese and oil . Also I wondered if it has to be Olive oil? could
> it be say grapeseed oil instead or a flavored oil that I make myself?
> 
> 
> Regards,
> Bev & John
> Miskin Meadows Farm
> http://www.hawk.igs.net/~emerald/index.html
> Owner VankleekHill_Freecycle
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VankleekHill_Freecycle
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.17/227 - Release Date: 11/01/2006
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Cheese mailing list
> Cheese at hbd.org
> http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese
> 
> 
> -------------- next part --------------
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> URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20060202/49c46a71/attachment-0001.html
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 16:42:23 -0500
> From: Erica Schechter <erica.schechter at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Cheese] Cheese balls in oil
> To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" <cheese at hbd.org>
> Message-ID:
> 	<9d3206c0602021342t456cdca3i377bf11cce389c4f at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> 
> If you drain it longer, it's drier. Still soft, but solid rather than a spread.
> 
> --Erica
> 
> On 2/2/06, Dehaven James W <jiladeh at ameritech.net> wrote:
> > Is there a trick into forming the balls?  I thought chevre would be softer,
> > more like a spread
> >
> > Miskin Meadows <emerald at hawk.igs.net> wrote:
> > Hi Erica,
> >
> > I have the chevre made but I am looking for the herb recipe that is used to
> > flavor the cheese and oil . Also I wondered if it has to be Olive oil? could
> > it be say grapeseed oil instead or a flavored oil that I make myself?
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> > Bev & John
> > Miskin Meadows Farm
> > http://www.hawk.igs.net/~emerald/index.html
> > Owner VankleekHill_Freecycle
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VankleekHill_Freecycle
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.17/227 - Release Date: 11/01/2006
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Cheese mailing list
> > Cheese at hbd.org
> > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Cheese mailing list
> > Cheese at hbd.org
> > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Cheese mailing list
> Cheese at hbd.org
> http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese
> 
> 
> End of Cheese Digest, Vol 6, Issue 5
> ************************************


From jiladeh at ameritech.net  Sat Feb  4 08:22:28 2006
From: jiladeh at ameritech.net (Dehaven James W)
Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 05:22:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Cheese] Cheese Digest, Vol 6, Issue 5
In-Reply-To: <200602032259.k13Mwm5r029085@brew.hbd.org>
Message-ID: <20060204132228.67353.qmail@web80411.mail.yahoo.com>

So how are these Chevre balls actually served?

Linda Conroy <rosemarygoddess at moonwiseherbs.com> wrote:  > Greetings. As for the Chevre in oil, olive oil will keep the longest so is a really good choice. Seed oils go rancid more quickly than fruit oils ie olive, avacoda, coconut etc. And an herbal oil you make yourself would be fabulous. I like to add fresh herbs to the jar that I put the cheese in. I put the herb in the jar before I add the cheese, I then add the cheese and then the oil. I predominantly use olive oil. The nicer the oil, the better the flavor. 
happy cheese making
Linda


Send Cheese mailing list submissions to
> cheese at hbd.org
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> cheese-request at hbd.org
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> cheese-owner at hbd.org
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Cheese digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
> 1. Re: Cheese balls in oil (Dehaven James W)
> 2. Re: Cheese balls in oil (Erica Schechter)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 13:13:38 -0800 (PST)
> From: Dehaven James W 
> Subject: Re: [Cheese] Cheese balls in oil
> To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" 
> Message-ID: <20060202211338.79032.qmail at web80405.mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> Is there a trick into forming the balls? I thought chevre would be softer, more like a spread
> 
> Miskin Meadows wrote: Hi Erica,
> 
> I have the chevre made but I am looking for the herb recipe that is used to
> flavor the cheese and oil . Also I wondered if it has to be Olive oil? could
> it be say grapeseed oil instead or a flavored oil that I make myself?
> 
> 
> Regards,
> Bev & John
> Miskin Meadows Farm
> http://www.hawk.igs.net/~emerald/index.html
> Owner VankleekHill_Freecycle
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VankleekHill_Freecycle
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.17/227 - Release Date: 11/01/2006
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Cheese mailing list
> Cheese at hbd.org
> http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese
> 
> 
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20060202/49c46a71/attachment-0001.html
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 16:42:23 -0500
> From: Erica Schechter 
> Subject: Re: [Cheese] Cheese balls in oil
> To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" 
> Message-ID:
> <9d3206c0602021342t456cdca3i377bf11cce389c4f at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> 
> If you drain it longer, it's drier. Still soft, but solid rather than a spread.
> 
> --Erica
> 
> On 2/2/06, Dehaven James W wrote:
> > Is there a trick into forming the balls? I thought chevre would be softer,
> > more like a spread
> >
> > Miskin Meadows wrote:
> > Hi Erica,
> >
> > I have the chevre made but I am looking for the herb recipe that is used to
> > flavor the cheese and oil . Also I wondered if it has to be Olive oil? could
> > it be say grapeseed oil instead or a flavored oil that I make myself?
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> > Bev & John
> > Miskin Meadows Farm
> > http://www.hawk.igs.net/~emerald/index.html
> > Owner VankleekHill_Freecycle
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VankleekHill_Freecycle
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.17/227 - Release Date: 11/01/2006
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Cheese mailing list
> > Cheese at hbd.org
> > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Cheese mailing list
> > Cheese at hbd.org
> > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Cheese mailing list
> Cheese at hbd.org
> http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese
> 
> 
> End of Cheese Digest, Vol 6, Issue 5
> ************************************
_______________________________________________
Cheese mailing list
Cheese at hbd.org
http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese


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From jmurren at verizon.net  Sat Feb  4 08:45:25 2006
From: jmurren at verizon.net (JOHN MURREN)
Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 05:45:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Cheese] A story about draining whey
In-Reply-To: <F5E8FEBC-EEE7-4B6A-9BFB-DF5DF177FE39@swlaw.edu>
Message-ID: <20060204134525.38570.qmail@web84013.mail.dcn.yahoo.com>



Doug Snyder <dsnyder at swlaw.edu> wrote:     And the second factor is, I found my cat drinking 
the whey from the bowl on the top of the counter ;-)

Doug
_______________________________________________
Smart cat!  
   
  After discovering how much protein and nutrition was left in the whey, I've started using it for any number of things - mostly as the liquid in breads - adds much flavor too!  I just saw on The Food Network that whey is the key ingredient in todays' popular energy bars.
   
  Good stuff - the cat knows!
  John

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From jmurren at verizon.net  Sat Feb  4 08:56:17 2006
From: jmurren at verizon.net (JOHN MURREN)
Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 05:56:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Cheese] Advanced book recommendations?
In-Reply-To: <9d3206c0602031036m257eddc5sefcea7142dd80fa7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20060204135617.20115.qmail@web84012.mail.dcn.yahoo.com>

Hi Erica!
  Although I don't have the scientific answer to the "acid" cheese question, I suspect that the amount of acid added contibutes to the melting factor - I say that because mozzarella has citric acid and it melts (maybe not as quickly as others).  Again, my guess is that rennet is a slow acting acid builder, while the others are acid "jolts" to the milk.  ???
   
  John

Erica Schechter <erica.schechter at gmail.com> wrote:
  Hi all,

I've read Ricki Carrol's book cover to cover, and made several
cheeses: soft, hard, pressed, mold ripened, you name it. I'm certainly
no expert, but I'd love to learn more of the science behind
cheesemaking so that I can understand the process at a much more
detailed level. I've read the relevant chapters in "On Food and
Cooking" by Harold McGee, but I'd like something more specialized. Can
anyone recommend something?

By the way...does anyone know why cheese that has acid added to it
(lemon juice, vinegar, citirc acid) does not melt? I can't find the
answer anywhere...

--Erica

_______________________________________________
Cheese mailing list
Cheese at hbd.org
http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese
  

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From jmurren at verizon.net  Sat Feb  4 09:14:24 2006
From: jmurren at verizon.net (JOHN MURREN)
Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 06:14:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Cheese] Preserving cheese in herb oils
In-Reply-To: <200602032259.k13Mwm5r029085@brew.hbd.org>
Message-ID: <20060204141424.30073.qmail@web84003.mail.dcn.yahoo.com>



Linda Conroy <rosemarygoddess at moonwiseherbs.com> wrote:    > Greetings. As for the Chevre in oil, olive oil will keep the longest so is a really good choice. Seed oils go rancid more quickly than fruit oils ie olive, avacoda, coconut etc. And an herbal oil you make yourself would be fabulous. I like to add fresh herbs to the jar that I put the cheese in. I put the herb in the jar before I add the cheese, I then add the cheese and then the oil. I predominantly use olive oil. The nicer the oil, the better the flavor. 
happy cheese making
Linda


A note of caution - be careful about your preserving techniques when using herbs in the oil.  I lost a bushel of beautiful roasted/dried tomatoes this past season by following a recipe off the web that called for emersing the dried tomatoes in basil olive oil, and storing them at room temp.  Within a few days, they all began to spoil.  Refrigeration is needed, and that means the oil turns solid.  It's fine, it just doesn't look as nice!  Only later did I read that although the old timers often preserved by covering with oil and storing at a "cool" cellar temp, it's not recognized as a safe thing to do today, especially when adding herbs, which add the likelyhood of botulism or other nasties.
   
  John

-------------- next part --------------
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From emerald at hawk.igs.net  Sat Feb  4 09:32:40 2006
From: emerald at hawk.igs.net (Miskin Meadows)
Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 09:32:40 -0500
Subject: [Cheese] chevre balls
In-Reply-To: <mailman.391.1139060086.2625.cheese@hbd.org>
Message-ID: <FEEAJLCCMBNHNFHOGPAGOEPHGAAA.emerald@hawk.igs.net>


Hi Linda,

what herbs would you add? I have chives in oil, garlic, herb de province,
fine herbs mixes to try. I agree with the olive oil being best for
preserving but that too left long enough on the counter will go bad. It
might be though the spices or the little bit if whey that adds to the oils.
I'd love to hear what spices folks use..

I got great feedback from my clients on some new ones I did the other day..
it was a good experiment.
1.  Herbs & Garlic  (everyone always loves this one)
2. Salsa- (everyone loved this one, one client said too salty for her taste
but she doesn't use salt<LOL>)
3. Sun dried tomatoes & Bacon- (Everyone said amazing flavor but this one
was drier.. I think the bacon soaked up some of the moisture)
4. Grainy mustard- (everyone said excellent with ham/meats on and the cheese
together, which is how I told them to eat it. )
5. Cranberry & Cashews-( this one was drier as it drained longer so most
wanted it like the others more moist. some said to add cranberry juice for
stronger flavor as it was great tasting but very mild) Also I told them to
try this with fresh fruit and honey and they loved it that way too.

So all in all the samples went well with test home # 1
I really want to try them with the balls in oil this week.

Regards,
Bev & John
Miskin Meadows Farm
http://www.hawk.igs.net/~emerald/index.html
Owner VankleekHill_Freecycle
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VankleekHill_Freecycle




--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.0/249 - Release Date: 02/02/2006



From emerald at hawk.igs.net  Sat Feb  4 09:32:42 2006
From: emerald at hawk.igs.net (Miskin Meadows)
Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 09:32:42 -0500
Subject: [Cheese] So how are these Chevre balls actually served?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.391.1139060086.2625.cheese@hbd.org>
Message-ID: <FEEAJLCCMBNHNFHOGPAGAEPIGAAA.emerald@hawk.igs.net>

Hi James,

We serve them as snacks with crackers or fruit, in salads, on a plate with
sliced tomatoes. I personally eat them just like they are out of the bottle.
I do love them with dried apricots though.


Regards,
Bev & John
Miskin Meadows Farm
http://www.hawk.igs.net/~emerald/index.html
Owner VankleekHill_Freecycle
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VankleekHill_Freecycle




--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.0/249 - Release Date: 02/02/2006



From arf at mc.net  Sat Feb  4 13:06:24 2006
From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling)
Date: Sat, 04 Feb 2006 12:06:24 -0600
Subject: [Cheese] A story about draining whey
In-Reply-To: <20060204134525.38570.qmail@web84013.mail.dcn.yahoo.com>
References: <20060204134525.38570.qmail@web84013.mail.dcn.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <43E4ED20.80502@mc.net>

JOHN MURREN wrote:

>  I just saw on The Food
> Network that whey is the key ingredient in todays' popular energy
> bars.

Before you jump to conclusions, do not assume that they use it for any 
reason other than the bottom line.  Whey contains a good deal of sugar 
and as it can be had for the cost of picking it up at cheese factories, 
it is a very inexpensive source for sugar, i.e. "energy" for energy bars.

The cheese industry has spent almost as much time and money trying to 
find uses for or disposing of whey as they spend on cheese making.  It 
is a plague to the industry, especially since environmental laws started 
preventing the dumping of it into rivers.

js

-- 
PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm
Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com



From arf at mc.net  Sat Feb  4 13:16:07 2006
From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling)
Date: Sat, 04 Feb 2006 12:16:07 -0600
Subject: [Cheese] Advanced book recommendations?
In-Reply-To: <20060204135617.20115.qmail@web84012.mail.dcn.yahoo.com>
References: <20060204135617.20115.qmail@web84012.mail.dcn.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <43E4EF67.8000709@mc.net>

JOHN MURREN wrote:

>  Again, my guess is
> that rennet is a slow acting acid builder, while the others are acid
> "jolts" to the milk.  ???

Rennet does not build acid.  In fact, the pH drops slightly during 
curdling.  It's objective is to produce a curd without waiting till the 
acid level rises high enough to curdle it, by which time it is a very 
high acid cheese.

Citric acid takes the place of the culture and the need to do a 
controlled ripening of the cheese to produce the acid.  It essentially 
produces instant cheese.

It apparently is easier and more fool proof than making Mozz the hard 
way and seems to be the only way contemporary cheese gurus describe it.
I have never made instant Mozz because I am sort of a cheese snob but I 
have never made a really good Mozz the hard way so I do not include it 
on my resume.

js

-- 
PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm
Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com



From rosemarygoddess at moonwiseherbs.com  Sat Feb  4 13:26:03 2006
From: rosemarygoddess at moonwiseherbs.com (Linda Conroy)
Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 11:26:03 -0700
Subject: [Cheese] Cheese Digest, Vol 6, Issue 7
Message-ID: <200602041838.k14IcIM6005460@brew.hbd.org>

Botlism lives in soil, that is where the spores come from, so garlic and other roots are not a good choice for long steeping in oil. I am also careful to collect the arial (top) parts of plant rather than those close to the earth. I keep my feta cheese that is marinating with herbs in olive oil in my pantry at room temperature-never has gone bad-I have been doing this for more than 6 years. I make a point of eating it within 6 months, as I do not expect fresh foods to last the way that comercial products which are full of preservatives do. Also I have steeped dried tomatoes and they too are fine. 

When steeping herbs: be sure they are fresh, but not wet. I like to collect on a very dry afternoon. Do not wash them-if I collect from my own pesticide free garden there is no need to wash. Be sure everything is below the surface of the oil, you are cutting off from oxegon and anything above the surface will mold. 

Also a note about oils: Buying oil from the store in a clear bottle means that the oil is either already rancid or on it's way to becoming rancid. Light compromises the integrity of oil. So I buy my olive oil in a can. 
I hope this is helpful. 
Happy Cheese Making
Linda 
www.moonwiseherbs.com

> 
Send Cheese mailing list submissions to
> 	cheese at hbd.org
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> 	http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> 	cheese-request at hbd.org
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> 	cheese-owner at hbd.org
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Cheese digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>    1. Re: A story about draining whey (JOHN MURREN)
>    2. Re: Advanced book recommendations? (JOHN MURREN)
>    3. Re: Preserving cheese in herb oils (JOHN MURREN)
>    4. Re: chevre balls (Miskin Meadows)
>    5. So how are these Chevre balls actually served? (Miskin Meadows)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 05:45:25 -0800 (PST)
> From: JOHN MURREN <jmurren at verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: [Cheese] A story about draining whey
> To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" <cheese at hbd.org>
> Message-ID: <20060204134525.38570.qmail at web84013.mail.dcn.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> 
> 
> Doug Snyder <dsnyder at swlaw.edu> wrote:     And the second factor is, I found my cat drinking 
> the whey from the bowl on the top of the counter ;-)
> 
> Doug
> _______________________________________________
> Smart cat!  
>    
>   After discovering how much protein and nutrition was left in the whey, I've started using it for any number of things - mostly as the liquid in breads - adds much flavor too!  I just saw on The Food Network that whey is the key ingredient in todays' popular energy bars.
>    
>   Good stuff - the cat knows!
>   John
> 
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20060204/5b76bd5c/attachment-0001.html
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 05:56:17 -0800 (PST)
> From: JOHN MURREN <jmurren at verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: [Cheese] Advanced book recommendations?
> To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" <cheese at hbd.org>
> Message-ID: <20060204135617.20115.qmail at web84012.mail.dcn.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> Hi Erica!
>   Although I don't have the scientific answer to the "acid" cheese question, I suspect that the amount of acid added contibutes to the melting factor - I say that because mozzarella has citric acid and it melts (maybe not as quickly as others).  Again, my guess is that rennet is a slow acting acid builder, while the others are acid "jolts" to the milk.  ???
>    
>   John
> 
> Erica Schechter <erica.schechter at gmail.com> wrote:
>   Hi all,
> 
> I've read Ricki Carrol's book cover to cover, and made several
> cheeses: soft, hard, pressed, mold ripened, you name it. I'm certainly
> no expert, but I'd love to learn more of the science behind
> cheesemaking so that I can understand the process at a much more
> detailed level. I've read the relevant chapters in "On Food and
> Cooking" by Harold McGee, but I'd like something more specialized. Can
> anyone recommend something?
> 
> By the way...does anyone know why cheese that has acid added to it
> (lemon juice, vinegar, citirc acid) does not melt? I can't find the
> answer anywhere...
> 
> --Erica
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Cheese mailing list
> Cheese at hbd.org
> http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese
>   
> 
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20060204/77601f2f/attachment-0001.html
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 06:14:24 -0800 (PST)
> From: JOHN MURREN <jmurren at verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: [Cheese] Preserving cheese in herb oils
> To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" <cheese at hbd.org>
> Message-ID: <20060204141424.30073.qmail at web84003.mail.dcn.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> 
> 
> Linda Conroy <rosemarygoddess at moonwiseherbs.com> wrote:    > Greetings. As for the Chevre in oil, olive oil will keep the longest so is a really good choice. Seed oils go rancid more quickly than fruit oils ie olive, avacoda, coconut etc. And an herbal oil you make yourself would be fabulous. I like to add fresh herbs to the jar that I put the cheese in. I put the herb in the jar before I add the cheese, I then add the cheese and then the oil. I predominantly use olive oil. The nicer the oil, the better the flavor. 
> happy cheese making
> Linda
> 
> 
> A note of caution - be careful about your preserving techniques when using herbs in the oil.  I lost a bushel of beautiful roasted/dried tomatoes this past season by following a recipe off the web that called for emersing the dried tomatoes in basil olive oil, and storing them at room temp.  Within a few days, they all began to spoil.  Refrigeration is needed, and that means the oil turns solid.  It's fine, it just doesn't look as nice!  Only later did I read that although the old timers often preserved by covering with oil and storing at a "cool" cellar temp, it's not recognized as a safe thing to do today, especially when adding herbs, which add the likelyhood of botulism or other nasties.
>    
>   John
> 
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20060204/51927baa/attachment-0001.html
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 09:32:40 -0500
> From: "Miskin Meadows" <emerald at hawk.igs.net>
> Subject: Re: [Cheese] chevre balls
> To: <cheese at hbd.org>
> Message-ID: <FEEAJLCCMBNHNFHOGPAGOEPHGAAA.emerald at hawk.igs.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> 
> Hi Linda,
> 
> what herbs would you add? I have chives in oil, garlic, herb de province,
> fine herbs mixes to try. I agree with the olive oil being best for
> preserving but that too left long enough on the counter will go bad. It
> might be though the spices or the little bit if whey that adds to the oils.
> I'd love to hear what spices folks use..
> 
> I got great feedback from my clients on some new ones I did the other day..
> it was a good experiment.
> 1.  Herbs & Garlic  (everyone always loves this one)
> 2. Salsa- (everyone loved this one, one client said too salty for her taste
> but she doesn't use salt<LOL>)
> 3. Sun dried tomatoes & Bacon- (Everyone said amazing flavor but this one
> was drier.. I think the bacon soaked up some of the moisture)
> 4. Grainy mustard- (everyone said excellent with ham/meats on and the cheese
> together, which is how I told them to eat it. )
> 5. Cranberry & Cashews-( this one was drier as it drained longer so most
> wanted it like the others more moist. some said to add cranberry juice for
> stronger flavor as it was great tasting but very mild) Also I told them to
> try this with fresh fruit and honey and they loved it that way too.
> 
> So all in all the samples went well with test home # 1
> I really want to try them with the balls in oil this week.
> 
> Regards,
> Bev & John
> Miskin Meadows Farm
> http://www.hawk.igs.net/~emerald/index.html
> Owner VankleekHill_Freecycle
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VankleekHill_Freecycle
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.0/249 - Release Date: 02/02/2006
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 5
> Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 09:32:42 -0500
> From: "Miskin Meadows" <emerald at hawk.igs.net>
> Subject: [Cheese] So how are these Chevre balls actually served?
> To: <cheese at hbd.org>
> Message-ID: <FEEAJLCCMBNHNFHOGPAGAEPIGAAA.emerald at hawk.igs.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> Hi James,
> 
> We serve them as snacks with crackers or fruit, in salads, on a plate with
> sliced tomatoes. I personally eat them just like they are out of the bottle.
> I do love them with dried apricots though.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> Bev & John
> Miskin Meadows Farm
> http://www.hawk.igs.net/~emerald/index.html
> Owner VankleekHill_Freecycle
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VankleekHill_Freecycle
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.0/249 - Release Date: 02/02/2006
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Cheese mailing list
> Cheese at hbd.org
> http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese
> 
> 
> End of Cheese Digest, Vol 6, Issue 7
> ************************************


From jmurren at verizon.net  Sun Feb  5 09:46:41 2006
From: jmurren at verizon.net (JOHN MURREN)
Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2006 06:46:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Cheese] A story about draining whey
In-Reply-To: <43E4ED20.80502@mc.net>
Message-ID: <20060205144642.8105.qmail@web84002.mail.dcn.yahoo.com>

Who's jumping to conclusions?  Isn't it a good thing that corporate America is finding another use for whey?  And I disagree that, in this case, it's only because of the sugar; it's very well known that a great deal of protein gets thrown away with the whey, and these guys love being able to note the added protein content on their label that the whey provides.  I also doubt that the "whey problem" is as significant as you state, as long as America still has a pork industry, why would they need to dump it?
  jm

Jack Schmidling <arf at mc.net> wrote:
  JOHN MURREN wrote:

> I just saw on The Food
> Network that whey is the key ingredient in todays' popular energy
> bars.

Before you jump to conclusions, do not assume that they use it for any 
reason other than the bottom line. Whey contains a good deal of sugar 
and as it can be had for the cost of picking it up at cheese factories, 
it is a very inexpensive source for sugar, i.e. "energy" for energy bars.

The cheese industry has spent almost as much time and money trying to 
find uses for or disposing of whey as they spend on cheese making. It 
is a plague to the industry, especially since environmental laws started 
preventing the dumping of it into rivers.

js

-- 
PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm
Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com

_______________________________________________
Cheese mailing list
Cheese at hbd.org
http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese
  

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From jmurren at verizon.net  Sun Feb  5 10:57:00 2006
From: jmurren at verizon.net (JOHN MURREN)
Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2006 07:57:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Cheese] Preserving in Oil
In-Reply-To: <200602041838.k14IcIM6005460@brew.hbd.org>
Message-ID: <20060205155700.49556.qmail@web84015.mail.dcn.yahoo.com>

  Linda Conroy <rosemarygoddess at moonwiseherbs.com> wrote: 
  Botlism lives in soil, that is where the spores come from, so garlic and other roots are not a good choice for long steeping in oil. I am also careful to collect the arial (top) parts of plant rather than those close to the earth. I keep my feta cheese that is marinating with herbs in olive oil in my pantry at room temperature-never has gone bad-I have been doing this for more than 6 years. I make a point of eating it within 6 months, as I do not expect fresh foods to last the way that comercial products which are full of preservatives do. Also I have steeped dried tomatoes and they too are fine. 
   
   
  Linda,
  Your good fortune is encouraging, however it is far from a guarantee that it is a safe practice.  Preserving in oil has a long folk history but it is currently not a practice that is recommended by the USDA or by The National Center for Home Food Preservation, who I quote here:
   
  How do I can oil with herbs? Can I can pesto?

Herbs and oils are both low-acid and together could support the growth of the disease-causing Clostridium botulinum bacteria. Oils may be flavored with herbs if they are made up for fresh use, stored in the refrigerator and used within 2 to 3 days. There are no canning recommendations. Fresh herbs must be washed well and dried completely before storing in the oil. The very best sanitation and personal hygiene practices must be used. Pesto is an uncooked seasoning mixture of herbs, usually including fresh basil, and some oil. It may be frozen for long term storage; there are no home canning recommendations.

     
  Yes, you are correct re garlic, or any food having contact with the soil, but that simply increases the potential for the introduction of bacteria of any type.  The incidious nature of botulism is that it doesn't always present visual cues of its presence, as with the more common types of bacterial spoilage, such as that which spoiled my dried tomatoes in oil and basil.  I just think that readers ought to know what precautions are necessary to avoid all problems before they jump in with both feet.
  jm

   



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From arf at mc.net  Sun Feb  5 10:59:10 2006
From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling)
Date: Sun, 05 Feb 2006 09:59:10 -0600
Subject: [Cheese] A story about draining whey
In-Reply-To: <20060205144642.8105.qmail@web84002.mail.dcn.yahoo.com>
References: <20060205144642.8105.qmail@web84002.mail.dcn.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <43E620CE.7010000@mc.net>

JOHN MURREN wrote:
> Who's jumping to conclusions?  Isn't it a good thing that corporate
> America is finding another use for whey?

Yes.  My point was the motivation not the utility of doing it.

>And I disagree that, in
> this case, it's only because of the sugar; it's very well known that
> a great deal of protein gets thrown away with the whey, and these
> guys love being able to note the added protein content on their label
> that the whey provides.....

They can do the same thing with soy protein but whey is obviously cheaper.

>I also doubt that the "whey problem" is as
> significant as you state,

You are free to doubt it but I think if you look into the issue you will 
find it a major expense of cheese production.

>as long as America still has a pork
> industry, why would they need to dump it?

Because of the transportation costs to get it to the pigs.  It costs as 
much or more to ship $3 per ton whey as it does to ship $3 a gallon 
gasoline.  The sewer was the least expensive alternative.

js

-- 
PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm
Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com



From rosemarygoddess at moonwiseherbs.com  Sun Feb  5 13:35:28 2006
From: rosemarygoddess at moonwiseherbs.com (Linda Conroy)
Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2006 11:35:28 -0700
Subject: [Cheese] oil in cheese and the USDA
Message-ID: <200602051848.k15ImEFi009348@brew.hbd.org>

Let's start from the beginning as I was not teaching a full on food preserving class on this site. The first thing to do is either read extensively about the nature of food borne illness and or learn from someone who is experienced and skilled in this arena. 
And do read between the lines as their is a food industry that is trying to sell their stuff and has instilled fear into the picture. Use common sense. 

One thing we need to be clear about, many of the regulations about food preservation are based on large scale production. I am not talking about large scale production. If one has a relationship with their food, makes things in small batches and eats what they make within a short time frame; it is less likely they will have a problem. I always tell my students it is important to know what your food should smell, look and taste like-don't eat anything you are suspicious of. 

On the other side of the coin regulations do not necessarily protect people: ie more illness has been caused by cheese made from pasteurized milk than raw milk. 

Based on my experience I have more faith in my own ability to preserve food than the food industry. I have studied food sciences and would encourage anyone who is interested in this topic to do so as well, but try to study it with a critical mind. And I do not suggest canning pesto: it is true that it is a low acid food,I freeze it. 

And I did want to make a comment about whey: dried whey does not ahve the same health benefits as fresh whey-I really would prefer the fresh whey get fed to the pigs and I will continue to cook with and drink my own whey. 
Happy Cheese Making 
Linda
www.moonwiseherbs.com




> 
Send Cheese mailing list submissions to
> 	cheese at hbd.org
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> 	http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> 	cheese-request at hbd.org
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> 	cheese-owner at hbd.org
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Cheese digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>    1. Re: A story about draining whey (Jack Schmidling)
>    2. Re: Advanced book recommendations? (Jack Schmidling)
>    3. Re: Cheese Digest, Vol 6, Issue 7 (Linda Conroy)
>    4. Re: A story about draining whey (JOHN MURREN)
>    5. Re: Preserving in Oil (JOHN MURREN)
>    6. Re: A story about draining whey (Jack Schmidling)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 04 Feb 2006 12:06:24 -0600
> From: Jack Schmidling <arf at mc.net>
> Subject: Re: [Cheese] A story about draining whey
> To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" <cheese at hbd.org>
> Message-ID: <43E4ED20.80502 at mc.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> 
> JOHN MURREN wrote:
> 
> >  I just saw on The Food
> > Network that whey is the key ingredient in todays' popular energy
> > bars.
> 
> Before you jump to conclusions, do not assume that they use it for any 
> reason other than the bottom line.  Whey contains a good deal of sugar 
> and as it can be had for the cost of picking it up at cheese factories, 
> it is a very inexpensive source for sugar, i.e. "energy" for energy bars.
> 
> The cheese industry has spent almost as much time and money trying to 
> find uses for or disposing of whey as they spend on cheese making.  It 
> is a plague to the industry, especially since environmental laws started 
> preventing the dumping of it into rivers.
> 
> js
> 
> -- 
> PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm
> Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 04 Feb 2006 12:16:07 -0600
> From: Jack Schmidling <arf at mc.net>
> Subject: Re: [Cheese] Advanced book recommendations?
> To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" <cheese at hbd.org>
> Message-ID: <43E4EF67.8000709 at mc.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> 
> JOHN MURREN wrote:
> 
> >  Again, my guess is
> > that rennet is a slow acting acid builder, while the others are acid
> > "jolts" to the milk.  ???
> 
> Rennet does not build acid.  In fact, the pH drops slightly during 
> curdling.  It's objective is to produce a curd without waiting till the 
> acid level rises high enough to curdle it, by which time it is a very 
> high acid cheese.
> 
> Citric acid takes the place of the culture and the need to do a 
> controlled ripening of the cheese to produce the acid.  It essentially 
> produces instant cheese.
> 
> It apparently is easier and more fool proof than making Mozz the hard 
> way and seems to be the only way contemporary cheese gurus describe it.
> I have never made instant Mozz because I am sort of a cheese snob but I 
> have never made a really good Mozz the hard way so I do not include it 
> on my resume.
> 
> js
> 
> -- 
> PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm
> Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 11:26:03 -0700
> From: Linda Conroy <rosemarygoddess at moonwiseherbs.com>
> Subject: Re: [Cheese] Cheese Digest, Vol 6, Issue 7
> To: cheese at hbd.org
> Message-ID: <200602041838.k14IcIM6005460 at brew.hbd.org>
> 
> Botlism lives in soil, that is where the spores come from, so garlic and other roots are not a good choice for long steeping in oil. I am also careful to collect the arial (top) parts of plant rather than those close to the earth. I keep my feta cheese that is marinating with herbs in olive oil in my pantry at room temperature-never has gone bad-I have been doing this for more than 6 years. I make a point of eating it within 6 months, as I do not expect fresh foods to last the way that comercial products which are full of preservatives do. Also I have steeped dried tomatoes and they too are fine. 
> 
> When steeping herbs: be sure they are fresh, but not wet. I like to collect on a very dry afternoon. Do not wash them-if I collect from my own pesticide free garden there is no need to wash. Be sure everything is below the surface of the oil, you are cutting off from oxegon and anything above the surface will mold. 
> 
> Also a note about oils: Buying oil from the store in a clear bottle means that the oil is either already rancid or on it's way to becoming rancid. Light compromises the integrity of oil. So I buy my olive oil in a can. 
> I hope this is helpful. 
> Happy Cheese Making
> Linda 
> www.moonwiseherbs.com
> 
> > 
> Send Cheese mailing list submissions to
> > 	cheese at hbd.org
> > 
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> > 	http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > 	cheese-request at hbd.org
> > 
> > You can reach the person managing the list at
> > 	cheese-owner at hbd.org
> > 
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of Cheese digest..."
> > 
> > 
> > Today's Topics:
> > 
> >    1. Re: A story about draining whey (JOHN MURREN)
> >    2. Re: Advanced book recommendations? (JOHN MURREN)
> >    3. Re: Preserving cheese in herb oils (JOHN MURREN)
> >    4. Re: chevre balls (Miskin Meadows)
> >    5. So how are these Chevre balls actually served? (Miskin Meadows)
> > 
> > 
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > 
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 05:45:25 -0800 (PST)
> > From: JOHN MURREN <jmurren at verizon.net>
> > Subject: Re: [Cheese] A story about draining whey
> > To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" <cheese at hbd.org>
> > Message-ID: <20060204134525.38570.qmail at web84013.mail.dcn.yahoo.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Doug Snyder <dsnyder at swlaw.edu> wrote:     And the second factor is, I found my cat drinking 
> > the whey from the bowl on the top of the counter ;-)
> > 
> > Doug
> > _______________________________________________
> > Smart cat!  
> >    
> >   After discovering how much protein and nutrition was left in the whey, I've started using it for any number of things - mostly as the liquid in breads - adds much flavor too!  I just saw on The Food Network that whey is the key ingredient in todays' popular energy bars.
> >    
> >   Good stuff - the cat knows!
> >   John
> > 
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20060204/5b76bd5c/attachment-0001.html
> > 
> > ------------------------------
> > 
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 05:56:17 -0800 (PST)
> > From: JOHN MURREN <jmurren at verizon.net>
> > Subject: Re: [Cheese] Advanced book recommendations?
> > To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" <cheese at hbd.org>
> > Message-ID: <20060204135617.20115.qmail at web84012.mail.dcn.yahoo.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> > 
> > Hi Erica!
> >   Although I don't have the scientific answer to the "acid" cheese question, I suspect that the amount of acid added contibutes to the melting factor - I say that because mozzarella has citric acid and it melts (maybe not as quickly as others).  Again, my guess is that rennet is a slow acting acid builder, while the others are acid "jolts" to the milk.  ???
> >    
> >   John
> > 
> > Erica Schechter <erica.schechter at gmail.com> wrote:
> >   Hi all,
> > 
> > I've read Ricki Carrol's book cover to cover, and made several
> > cheeses: soft, hard, pressed, mold ripened, you name it. I'm certainly
> > no expert, but I'd love to learn more of the science behind
> > cheesemaking so that I can understand the process at a much more
> > detailed level. I've read the relevant chapters in "On Food and
> > Cooking" by Harold McGee, but I'd like something more specialized. Can
> > anyone recommend something?
> > 
> > By the way...does anyone know why cheese that has acid added to it
> > (lemon juice, vinegar, citirc acid) does not melt? I can't find the
> > answer anywhere...
> > 
> > --Erica
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Cheese mailing list
> > Cheese at hbd.org
> > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese
> >   
> > 
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20060204/77601f2f/attachment-0001.html
> > 
> > ------------------------------
> > 
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 06:14:24 -0800 (PST)
> > From: JOHN MURREN <jmurren at verizon.net>
> > Subject: Re: [Cheese] Preserving cheese in herb oils
> > To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" <cheese at hbd.org>
> > Message-ID: <20060204141424.30073.qmail at web84003.mail.dcn.yahoo.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Linda Conroy <rosemarygoddess at moonwiseherbs.com> wrote:    > Greetings. As for the Chevre in oil, olive oil will keep the longest so is a really good choice. Seed oils go rancid more quickly than fruit oils ie olive, avacoda, coconut etc. And an herbal oil you make yourself would be fabulous. I like to add fresh herbs to the jar that I put the cheese in. I put the herb in the jar before I add the cheese, I then add the cheese and then the oil. I predominantly use olive oil. The nicer the oil, the better the flavor. 
> > happy cheese making
> > Linda
> > 
> > 
> > A note of caution - be careful about your preserving techniques when using herbs in the oil.  I lost a bushel of beautiful roasted/dried tomatoes this past season by following a recipe off the web that called for emersing the dried tomatoes in basil olive oil, and storing them at room temp.  Within a few days, they all began to spoil.  Refrigeration is needed, and that means the oil turns solid.  It's fine, it just doesn't look as nice!  Only later did I read that although the old timers often preserved by covering with oil and storing at a "cool" cellar temp, it's not recognized as a safe thing to do today, especially when adding herbs, which add the likelyhood of botulism or other nasties.
> >    
> >   John
> > 
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20060204/51927baa/attachment-0001.html
> > 
> > ------------------------------
> > 
> > Message: 4
> > Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 09:32:40 -0500
> > From: "Miskin Meadows" <emerald at hawk.igs.net>
> > Subject: Re: [Cheese] chevre balls
> > To: <cheese at hbd.org>
> > Message-ID: <FEEAJLCCMBNHNFHOGPAGOEPHGAAA.emerald at hawk.igs.net>
> > Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"
> > 
> > 
> > Hi Linda,
> > 
> > what herbs would you add? I have chives in oil, garlic, herb de province,
> > fine herbs mixes to try. I agree with the olive oil being best for
> > preserving but that too left long enough on the counter will go bad. It
> > might be though the spices or the little bit if whey that adds to the oils.
> > I'd love to hear what spices folks use..
> > 
> > I got great feedback from my clients on some new ones I did the other day..
> > it was a good experiment.
> > 1.  Herbs & Garlic  (everyone always loves this one)
> > 2. Salsa- (everyone loved this one, one client said too salty for her taste
> > but she doesn't use salt<LOL>)
> > 3. Sun dried tomatoes & Bacon- (Everyone said amazing flavor but this one
> > was drier.. I think the bacon soaked up some of the moisture)
> > 4. Grainy mustard- (everyone said excellent with ham/meats on and the cheese
> > together, which is how I told them to eat it. )
> > 5. Cranberry & Cashews-( this one was drier as it drained longer so most
> > wanted it like the others more moist. some said to add cranberry juice for
> > stronger flavor as it was great tasting but very mild) Also I told them to
> > try this with fresh fruit and honey and they loved it that way too.
> > 
> > So all in all the samples went well with test home # 1
> > I really want to try them with the balls in oil this week.
> > 
> > Regards,
> > Bev & John
> > Miskin Meadows Farm
> > http://www.hawk.igs.net/~emerald/index.html
> > Owner VankleekHill_Freecycle
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VankleekHill_Freecycle
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --
> > No virus found in this outgoing message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.0/249 - Release Date: 02/02/2006
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ------------------------------
> > 
> > Message: 5
> > Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 09:32:42 -0500
> > From: "Miskin Meadows" <emerald at hawk.igs.net>
> > Subject: [Cheese] So how are these Chevre balls actually served?
> > To: <cheese at hbd.org>
> > Message-ID: <FEEAJLCCMBNHNFHOGPAGAEPIGAAA.emerald at hawk.igs.net>
> > Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"
> > 
> > Hi James,
> > 
> > We serve them as snacks with crackers or fruit, in salads, on a plate with
> > sliced tomatoes. I personally eat them just like they are out of the bottle.
> > I do love them with dried apricots though.
> > 
> > 
> > Regards,
> > Bev & John
> > Miskin Meadows Farm
> > http://www.hawk.igs.net/~emerald/index.html
> > Owner VankleekHill_Freecycle
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VankleekHill_Freecycle
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --
> > No virus found in this outgoing message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.0/249 - Release Date: 02/02/2006
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ------------------------------
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Cheese mailing list
> > Cheese at hbd.org
> > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese
> > 
> > 
> > End of Cheese Digest, Vol 6, Issue 7
> > ************************************
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2006 06:46:41 -0800 (PST)
> From: JOHN MURREN <jmurren at verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: [Cheese] A story about draining whey
> To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" <cheese at hbd.org>
> Message-ID: <20060205144642.8105.qmail at web84002.mail.dcn.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> Who's jumping to conclusions?  Isn't it a good thing that corporate America is finding another use for whey?  And I disagree that, in this case, it's only because of the sugar; it's very well known that a great deal of protein gets thrown away with the whey, and these guys love being able to note the added protein content on their label that the whey provides.  I also doubt that the "whey problem" is as significant as you state, as long as America still has a pork industry, why would they need to dump it?
>   jm
> 
> Jack Schmidling <arf at mc.net> wrote:
>   JOHN MURREN wrote:
> 
> > I just saw on The Food
> > Network that whey is the key ingredient in todays' popular energy
> > bars.
> 
> Before you jump to conclusions, do not assume that they use it for any 
> reason other than the bottom line. Whey contains a good deal of sugar 
> and as it can be had for the cost of picking it up at cheese factories, 
> it is a very inexpensive source for sugar, i.e. "energy" for energy bars.
> 
> The cheese industry has spent almost as much time and money trying to 
> find uses for or disposing of whey as they spend on cheese making. It 
> is a plague to the industry, especially since environmental laws started 
> preventing the dumping of it into rivers.
> 
> js
> 
> -- 
> PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm
> Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Cheese mailing list
> Cheese at hbd.org
> http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese
>   
> 
> -------------- next part --------------
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> URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20060205/f770afcb/attachment-0001.html
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 5
> Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2006 07:57:00 -0800 (PST)
> From: JOHN MURREN <jmurren at verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: [Cheese] Preserving in Oil
> To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" <cheese at hbd.org>
> Message-ID: <20060205155700.49556.qmail at web84015.mail.dcn.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
>   Linda Conroy <rosemarygoddess at moonwiseherbs.com> wrote: 
>   Botlism lives in soil, that is where the spores come from, so garlic and other roots are not a good choice for long steeping in oil. I am also careful to collect the arial (top) parts of plant rather than those close to the earth. I keep my feta cheese that is marinating with herbs in olive oil in my pantry at room temperature-never has gone bad-I have been doing this for more than 6 years. I make a point of eating it within 6 months, as I do not expect fresh foods to last the way that comercial products which are full of preservatives do. Also I have steeped dried tomatoes and they too are fine. 
>    
>    
>   Linda,
>   Your good fortune is encouraging, however it is far from a guarantee that it is a safe practice.  Preserving in oil has a long folk history but it is currently not a practice that is recommended by the USDA or by The National Center for Home Food Preservation, who I quote here:
>    
>   How do I can oil with herbs? Can I can pesto?
> 
> Herbs and oils are both low-acid and together could support the growth of the disease-causing Clostridium botulinum bacteria. Oils may be flavored with herbs if they are made up for fresh use, stored in the refrigerator and used within 2 to 3 days. There are no canning recommendations. Fresh herbs must be washed well and dried completely before storing in the oil. The very best sanitation and personal hygiene practices must be used. Pesto is an uncooked seasoning mixture of herbs, usually including fresh basil, and some oil. It may be frozen for long term storage; there are no home canning recommendations.
> 
>      
>   Yes, you are correct re garlic, or any food having contact with the soil, but that simply increases the potential for the introduction of bacteria of any type.  The incidious nature of botulism is that it doesn't always present visual cues of its presence, as with the more common types of bacterial spoilage, such as that which spoiled my dried tomatoes in oil and basil.  I just think that readers ought to know what precautions are necessary to avoid all problems before they jump in with both feet.
>   jm
> 
>    
> 
> 
> 
> -------------- next part --------------
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 6
> Date: Sun, 05 Feb 2006 09:59:10 -0600
> From: Jack Schmidling <arf at mc.net>
> Subject: Re: [Cheese] A story about draining whey
> To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" <cheese at hbd.org>
> Message-ID: <43E620CE.7010000 at mc.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> 
> JOHN MURREN wrote:
> > Who's jumping to conclusions?  Isn't it a good thing that corporate
> > America is finding another use for whey?
> 
> Yes.  My point was the motivation not the utility of doing it.
> 
> >And I disagree that, in
> > this case, it's only because of the sugar; it's very well known that
> > a great deal of protein gets thrown away with the whey, and these
> > guys love being able to note the added protein content on their label
> > that the whey provides.....
> 
> They can do the same thing with soy protein but whey is obviously cheaper.
> 
> >I also doubt that the "whey problem" is as
> > significant as you state,
> 
> You are free to doubt it but I think if you look into the issue you will 
> find it a major expense of cheese production.
> 
> >as long as America still has a pork
> > industry, why would they need to dump it?
> 
> Because of the transportation costs to get it to the pigs.  It costs as 
> much or more to ship $3 per ton whey as it does to ship $3 a gallon 
> gasoline.  The sewer was the least expensive alternative.
> 
> js
> 
> -- 
> PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm
> Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Cheese mailing list
> Cheese at hbd.org
> http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese
> 
> 
> End of Cheese Digest, Vol 6, Issue 8
> ************************************


From yikezilla at yahoo.com  Sun Feb  5 16:13:28 2006
From: yikezilla at yahoo.com (M. M.)
Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2006 13:13:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Cheese] Advanced book recommendations?
In-Reply-To: <9d3206c0602031036m257eddc5sefcea7142dd80fa7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20060205211328.86260.qmail@web36515.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Arthur Hill of the University of Guelph's Department of
Food Sciences has created an excellent website on cheese
making.  While it is primarily geared to commercial
production, you might find it interesting for the technical
content.  It includes a section on home-based cheese making
as well.

The address is:
http://www.foodsci.uoguelph.ca/cheese/welcom.htm

Hope this helps,


Marcia



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 


From arf at mc.net  Sun Feb  5 16:14:09 2006
From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling)
Date: Sun, 05 Feb 2006 15:14:09 -0600
Subject: [Cheese] Preserving in Oil
In-Reply-To: <20060205155700.49556.qmail@web84015.mail.dcn.yahoo.com>
References: <20060205155700.49556.qmail@web84015.mail.dcn.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <43E66AA1.40006@mc.net>

JOHN MURREN wrote:

> Preserving in oil has a long
> folk history but it is currently not a practice that is recommended
> by the USDA....

I was hoping someone else would bring this up as I hate to be the 
spoiler all the time.

Nothing is prettier, tastier or more dangerous than the folksy garlic in 
oil.  It seems so easy and down home but think Russian Roulette when 
doing it.

js

-- 
PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm
Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com



From dean_crabtree_1958 at yahoo.com  Sun Feb  5 17:56:16 2006
From: dean_crabtree_1958 at yahoo.com (dean crabtree)
Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2006 14:56:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Cheese] Preserving in Oil
In-Reply-To: <43E66AA1.40006@mc.net>
Message-ID: <20060205225616.86466.qmail@web36214.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I need to go with the National Center for Home Food Preservation on this.  Dr. Andress and her team focus their research on preservation that is done in the home, not in an industrial setting.  The research is quite thorough.  I also do home canning, and the subject of C. Bot comes up quite a bit in our discussions on another list.
   
  On a lighter note, I am about to start pressing a stirred curd cheddar in my polypro experimental hoop and follower.  I didn't get the chance that other week, so I am anxious to see where the increased pressing weight (large diameter hoop) is going.  I'll let ya'll know if it presses okay, or . . .
   
  It's about SB XL kickoff and my home-made blue's have been a hit with the little crowd (running a bit of a show and tell).  I actually just got on-line to see that I had lost an eBay bid, and was sucked into the email vortex.
   
  More later, fellow cheeseheads,
   
  Dean C.

		
---------------------------------
Relax. Yahoo! Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses!
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From rosemarygoddess at moonwiseherbs.com  Sun Feb  5 19:02:14 2006
From: rosemarygoddess at moonwiseherbs.com (Linda Conroy)
Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2006 17:02:14 -0700
Subject: [Cheese] infused oil and good cheese book
Message-ID: <200602060015.k160FEWY023947@brew.hbd.org>

>Again I encourage a critical eye when reading the science as it has it's own bias. Lets not buy it hook line and sinker, but let's be cautious as well. I did say that garlic in oil is not a good idea and I will add that this is true unless you eat it shortly, like a few hours, after infusing it. It seems we are too quick to move into promoting fear.

As for books I like the following book, it helps a person understand the science of cheese making. Ubderstanding a process helps us make our own choices. The thing I don't agree with in this book is their stance on raw milk, but I can come to my own conclusions about that. 

American Farmstead Cheese 
by Paul Kindstedt 

Happy Cheese Making
Peace
Linda
www.moonwiseherbs.com


 Send Cheese mailing list submissions to
> 	cheese at hbd.org
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> 	http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> 	cheese-request at hbd.org
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> 	cheese-owner at hbd.org
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Cheese digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>    1. Re: oil in cheese and the USDA (Linda Conroy)
>    2. Re: Advanced book recommendations? (M. M.)
>    3. Re: Preserving in Oil (Jack Schmidling)
>    4. Re: Preserving in Oil (dean crabtree)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2006 11:35:28 -0700
> From: Linda Conroy <rosemarygoddess at moonwiseherbs.com>
> Subject: Re: [Cheese] oil in cheese and the USDA
> To: cheese at hbd.org
> Message-ID: <200602051848.k15ImEFi009348 at brew.hbd.org>
> 
> Let's start from the beginning as I was not teaching a full on food preserving class on this site. The first thing to do is either read extensively about the nature of food borne illness and or learn from someone who is experienced and skilled in this arena. 
> And do read between the lines as their is a food industry that is trying to sell their stuff and has instilled fear into the picture. Use common sense. 
> 
> One thing we need to be clear about, many of the regulations about food preservation are based on large scale production. I am not talking about large scale production. If one has a relationship with their food, makes things in small batches and eats what they make within a short time frame; it is less likely they will have a problem. I always tell my students it is important to know what your food should smell, look and taste like-don't eat anything you are suspicious of. 
> 
> On the other side of the coin regulations do not necessarily protect people: ie more illness has been caused by cheese made from pasteurized milk than raw milk. 
> 
> Based on my experience I have more faith in my own ability to preserve food than the food industry. I have studied food sciences and would encourage anyone who is interested in this topic to do so as well, but try to study it with a critical mind. And I do not suggest canning pesto: it is true that it is a low acid food,I freeze it. 
> 
> And I did want to make a comment about whey: dried whey does not ahve the same health benefits as fresh whey-I really would prefer the fresh whey get fed to the pigs and I will continue to cook with and drink my own whey. 
> Happy Cheese Making 
> Linda
> www.moonwiseherbs.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > 
> Send Cheese mailing list submissions to
> > 	cheese at hbd.org
> > 
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> > 	http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > 	cheese-request at hbd.org
> > 
> > You can reach the person managing the list at
> > 	cheese-owner at hbd.org
> > 
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of Cheese digest..."
> > 
> > 
> > Today's Topics:
> > 
> >    1. Re: A story about draining whey (Jack Schmidling)
> >    2. Re: Advanced book recommendations? (Jack Schmidling)
> >    3. Re: Cheese Digest, Vol 6, Issue 7 (Linda Conroy)
> >    4. Re: A story about draining whey (JOHN MURREN)
> >    5. Re: Preserving in Oil (JOHN MURREN)
> >    6. Re: A story about draining whey (Jack Schmidling)
> > 
> > 
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > 
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Sat, 04 Feb 2006 12:06:24 -0600
> > From: Jack Schmidling <arf at mc.net>
> > Subject: Re: [Cheese] A story about draining whey
> > To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" <cheese at hbd.org>
> > Message-ID: <43E4ED20.80502 at mc.net>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> > 
> > JOHN MURREN wrote:
> > 
> > >  I just saw on The Food
> > > Network that whey is the key ingredient in todays' popular energy
> > > bars.
> > 
> > Before you jump to conclusions, do not assume that they use it for any 
> > reason other than the bottom line.  Whey contains a good deal of sugar 
> > and as it can be had for the cost of picking it up at cheese factories, 
> > it is a very inexpensive source for sugar, i.e. "energy" for energy bars.
> > 
> > The cheese industry has spent almost as much time and money trying to 
> > find uses for or disposing of whey as they spend on cheese making.  It 
> > is a plague to the industry, especially since environmental laws started 
> > preventing the dumping of it into rivers.
> > 
> > js
> > 
> > -- 
> > PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm
> > Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ------------------------------
> > 
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Sat, 04 Feb 2006 12:16:07 -0600
> > From: Jack Schmidling <arf at mc.net>
> > Subject: Re: [Cheese] Advanced book recommendations?
> > To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" <cheese at hbd.org>
> > Message-ID: <43E4EF67.8000709 at mc.net>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> > 
> > JOHN MURREN wrote:
> > 
> > >  Again, my guess is
> > > that rennet is a slow acting acid builder, while the others are acid
> > > "jolts" to the milk.  ???
> > 
> > Rennet does not build acid.  In fact, the pH drops slightly during 
> > curdling.  It's objective is to produce a curd without waiting till the 
> > acid level rises high enough to curdle it, by which time it is a very 
> > high acid cheese.
> > 
> > Citric acid takes the place of the culture and the need to do a 
> > controlled ripening of the cheese to produce the acid.  It essentially 
> > produces instant cheese.
> > 
> > It apparently is easier and more fool proof than making Mozz the hard 
> > way and seems to be the only way contemporary cheese gurus describe it.
> > I have never made instant Mozz because I am sort of a cheese snob but I 
> > have never made a really good Mozz the hard way so I do not include it 
> > on my resume.
> > 
> > js
> > 
> > -- 
> > PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm
> > Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ------------------------------
> > 
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 11:26:03 -0700
> > From: Linda Conroy <rosemarygoddess at moonwiseherbs.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Cheese] Cheese Digest, Vol 6, Issue 7
> > To: cheese at hbd.org
> > Message-ID: <200602041838.k14IcIM6005460 at brew.hbd.org>
> > 
> > Botlism lives in soil, that is where the spores come from, so garlic and other roots are not a good choice for long steeping in oil. I am also careful to collect the arial (top) parts of plant rather than those close to the earth. I keep my feta cheese that is marinating with herbs in olive oil in my pantry at room temperature-never has gone bad-I have been doing this for more than 6 years. I make a point of eating it within 6 months, as I do not expect fresh foods to last the way that comercial products which are full of preservatives do. Also I have steeped dried tomatoes and they too are fine. 
> > 
> > When steeping herbs: be sure they are fresh, but not wet. I like to collect on a very dry afternoon. Do not wash them-if I collect from my own pesticide free garden there is no need to wash. Be sure everything is below the surface of the oil, you are cutting off from oxegon and anything above the surface will mold. 
> > 
> > Also a note about oils: Buying oil from the store in a clear bottle means that the oil is either already rancid or on it's way to becoming rancid. Light compromises the integrity of oil. So I buy my olive oil in a can. 
> > I hope this is helpful. 
> > Happy Cheese Making
> > Linda 
> > www.moonwiseherbs.com
> > 
> > > 
> > Send Cheese mailing list submissions to
> > > 	cheese at hbd.org
> > > 
> > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> > > 	http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese
> > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > > 	cheese-request at hbd.org
> > > 
> > > You can reach the person managing the list at
> > > 	cheese-owner at hbd.org
> > > 
> > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > > than "Re: Contents of Cheese digest..."
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Today's Topics:
> > > 
> > >    1. Re: A story about draining whey (JOHN MURREN)
> > >    2. Re: Advanced book recommendations? (JOHN MURREN)
> > >    3. Re: Preserving cheese in herb oils (JOHN MURREN)
> > >    4. Re: chevre balls (Miskin Meadows)
> > >    5. So how are these Chevre balls actually served? (Miskin Meadows)
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > 
> > > Message: 1
> > > Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 05:45:25 -0800 (PST)
> > > From: JOHN MURREN <jmurren at verizon.net>
> > > Subject: Re: [Cheese] A story about draining whey
> > > To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" <cheese at hbd.org>
> > > Message-ID: <20060204134525.38570.qmail at web84013.mail.dcn.yahoo.com>
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Doug Snyder <dsnyder at swlaw.edu> wrote:     And the second factor is, I found my cat drinking 
> > > the whey from the bowl on the top of the counter ;-)
> > > 
> > > Doug
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Smart cat!  
> > >    
> > >   After discovering how much protein and nutrition was left in the whey, I've started using it for any number of things - mostly as the liquid in breads - adds much flavor too!  I just saw on The Food Network that whey is the key ingredient in todays' popular energy bars.
> > >    
> > >   Good stuff - the cat knows!
> > >   John
> > > 
> > > -------------- next part --------------
> > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > > URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20060204/5b76bd5c/attachment-0001.html
> > > 
> > > ------------------------------
> > > 
> > > Message: 2
> > > Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 05:56:17 -0800 (PST)
> > > From: JOHN MURREN <jmurren at verizon.net>
> > > Subject: Re: [Cheese] Advanced book recommendations?
> > > To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" <cheese at hbd.org>
> > > Message-ID: <20060204135617.20115.qmail at web84012.mail.dcn.yahoo.com>
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> > > 
> > > Hi Erica!
> > >   Although I don't have the scientific answer to the "acid" cheese question, I suspect that the amount of acid added contibutes to the melting factor - I say that because mozzarella has citric acid and it melts (maybe not as quickly as others).  Again, my guess is that rennet is a slow acting acid builder, while the others are acid "jolts" to the milk.  ???
> > >    
> > >   John
> > > 
> > > Erica Schechter <erica.schechter at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >   Hi all,
> > > 
> > > I've read Ricki Carrol's book cover to cover, and made several
> > > cheeses: soft, hard, pressed, mold ripened, you name it. I'm certainly
> > > no expert, but I'd love to learn more of the science behind
> > > cheesemaking so that I can understand the process at a much more
> > > detailed level. I've read the relevant chapters in "On Food and
> > > Cooking" by Harold McGee, but I'd like something more specialized. Can
> > > anyone recommend something?
> > > 
> > > By the way...does anyone know why cheese that has acid added to it
> > > (lemon juice, vinegar, citirc acid) does not melt? I can't find the
> > > answer anywhere...
> > > 
> > > --Erica
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Cheese mailing list
> > > Cheese at hbd.org
> > > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese
> > >   
> > > 
> > > -------------- next part --------------
> > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > > URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20060204/77601f2f/attachment-0001.html
> > > 
> > > ------------------------------
> > > 
> > > Message: 3
> > > Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 06:14:24 -0800 (PST)
> > > From: JOHN MURREN <jmurren at verizon.net>
> > > Subject: Re: [Cheese] Preserving cheese in herb oils
> > > To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" <cheese at hbd.org>
> > > Message-ID: <20060204141424.30073.qmail at web84003.mail.dcn.yahoo.com>
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Linda Conroy <rosemarygoddess at moonwiseherbs.com> wrote:    > Greetings. As for the Chevre in oil, olive oil will keep the longest so is a really good choice. Seed oils go rancid more quickly than fruit oils ie olive, avacoda, coconut etc. And an herbal oil you make yourself would be fabulous. I like to add fresh herbs to the jar that I put the cheese in. I put the herb in the jar before I add the cheese, I then add the cheese and then the oil. I predominantly use olive oil. The nicer the oil, the better the flavor. 
> > > happy cheese making
> > > Linda
> > > 
> > > 
> > > A note of caution - be careful about your preserving techniques when using herbs in the oil.  I lost a bushel of beautiful roasted/dried tomatoes this past season by following a recipe off the web that called for emersing the dried tomatoes in basil olive oil, and storing them at room temp.  Within a few days, they all began to spoil.  Refrigeration is needed, and that means the oil turns solid.  It's fine, it just doesn't look as nice!  Only later did I read that although the old timers often preserved by covering with oil and storing at a "cool" cellar temp, it's not recognized as a safe thing to do today, especially when adding herbs, which add the likelyhood of botulism or other nasties.
> > >    
> > >   John
> > > 
> > > -------------- next part --------------
> > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > > URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20060204/51927baa/attachment-0001.html
> > > 
> > > ------------------------------
> > > 
> > > Message: 4
> > > Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 09:32:40 -0500
> > > From: "Miskin Meadows" <emerald at hawk.igs.net>
> > > Subject: Re: [Cheese] chevre balls
> > > To: <cheese at hbd.org>
> > > Message-ID: <FEEAJLCCMBNHNFHOGPAGOEPHGAAA.emerald at hawk.igs.net>
> > > Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Hi Linda,
> > > 
> > > what herbs would you add? I have chives in oil, garlic, herb de province,
> > > fine herbs mixes to try. I agree with the olive oil being best for
> > > preserving but that too left long enough on the counter will go bad. It
> > > might be though the spices or the little bit if whey that adds to the oils.
> > > I'd love to hear what spices folks use..
> > > 
> > > I got great feedback from my clients on some new ones I did the other day..
> > > it was a good experiment.
> > > 1.  Herbs & Garlic  (everyone always loves this one)
> > > 2. Salsa- (everyone loved this one, one client said too salty for her taste
> > > but she doesn't use salt<LOL>)
> > > 3. Sun dried tomatoes & Bacon- (Everyone said amazing flavor but this one
> > > was drier.. I think the bacon soaked up some of the moisture)
> > > 4. Grainy mustard- (everyone said excellent with ham/meats on and the cheese
> > > together, which is how I told them to eat it. )
> > > 5. Cranberry & Cashews-( this one was drier as it drained longer so most
> > > wanted it like the others more moist. some said to add cranberry juice for
> > > stronger flavor as it was great tasting but very mild) Also I told them to
> > > try this with fresh fruit and honey and they loved it that way too.
> > > 
> > > So all in all the samples went well with test home # 1
> > > I really want to try them with the balls in oil this week.
> > > 
> > > Regards,
> > > Bev & John
> > > Miskin Meadows Farm
> > > http://www.hawk.igs.net/~emerald/index.html
> > > Owner VankleekHill_Freecycle
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VankleekHill_Freecycle
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --
> > > No virus found in this outgoing message.
> > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > > Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.0/249 - Release Date: 02/02/2006
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ------------------------------
> > > 
> > > Message: 5
> > > Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 09:32:42 -0500
> > > From: "Miskin Meadows" <emerald at hawk.igs.net>
> > > Subject: [Cheese] So how are these Chevre balls actually served?
> > > To: <cheese at hbd.org>
> > > Message-ID: <FEEAJLCCMBNHNFHOGPAGAEPIGAAA.emerald at hawk.igs.net>
> > > Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"
> > > 
> > > Hi James,
> > > 
> > > We serve them as snacks with crackers or fruit, in salads, on a plate with
> > > sliced tomatoes. I personally eat them just like they are out of the bottle.
> > > I do love them with dried apricots though.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Regards,
> > > Bev & John
> > > Miskin Meadows Farm
> > > http://www.hawk.igs.net/~emerald/index.html
> > > Owner VankleekHill_Freecycle
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VankleekHill_Freecycle
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --
> > > No virus found in this outgoing message.
> > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > > Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.0/249 - Release Date: 02/02/2006
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ------------------------------
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Cheese mailing list
> > > Cheese at hbd.org
> > > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese
> > > 
> > > 
> > > End of Cheese Digest, Vol 6, Issue 7
> > > ************************************
> > 
> > 
> > ------------------------------
> > 
> > Message: 4
> > Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2006 06:46:41 -0800 (PST)
> > From: JOHN MURREN <jmurren at verizon.net>
> > Subject: Re: [Cheese] A story about draining whey
> > To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" <cheese at hbd.org>
> > Message-ID: <20060205144642.8105.qmail at web84002.mail.dcn.yahoo.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> > 
> > Who's jumping to conclusions?  Isn't it a good thing that corporate America is finding another use for whey?  And I disagree that, in this case, it's only because of the sugar; it's very well known that a great deal of protein gets thrown away with the whey, and these guys love being able to note the added protein content on their label that the whey provides.  I also doubt that the "whey problem" is as significant as you state, as long as America still has a pork industry, why would they need to dump it?
> >   jm
> > 
> > Jack Schmidling <arf at mc.net> wrote:
> >   JOHN MURREN wrote:
> > 
> > > I just saw on The Food
> > > Network that whey is the key ingredient in todays' popular energy
> > > bars.
> > 
> > Before you jump to conclusions, do not assume that they use it for any 
> > reason other than the bottom line. Whey contains a good deal of sugar 
> > and as it can be had for the cost of picking it up at cheese factories, 
> > it is a very inexpensive source for sugar, i.e. "energy" for energy bars.
> > 
> > The cheese industry has spent almost as much time and money trying to 
> > find uses for or disposing of whey as they spend on cheese making. It 
> > is a plague to the industry, especially since environmental laws started 
> > preventing the dumping of it into rivers.
> > 
> > js
> > 
> > -- 
> > PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm
> > Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Cheese mailing list
> > Cheese at hbd.org
> > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese
> >   
> > 
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20060205/f770afcb/attachment-0001.html
> > 
> > ------------------------------
> > 
> > Message: 5
> > Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2006 07:57:00 -0800 (PST)
> > From: JOHN MURREN <jmurren at verizon.net>
> > Subject: Re: [Cheese] Preserving in Oil
> > To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" <cheese at hbd.org>
> > Message-ID: <20060205155700.49556.qmail at web84015.mail.dcn.yahoo.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> > 
> >   Linda Conroy <rosemarygoddess at moonwiseherbs.com> wrote: 
> >   Botlism lives in soil, that is where the spores come from, so garlic and other roots are not a good choice for long steeping in oil. I am also careful to collect the arial (top) parts of plant rather than those close to the earth. I keep my feta cheese that is marinating with herbs in olive oil in my pantry at room temperature-never has gone bad-I have been doing this for more than 6 years. I make a point of eating it within 6 months, as I do not expect fresh foods to last the way that comercial products which are full of preservatives do. Also I have steeped dried tomatoes and they too are fine. 
> >    
> >    
> >   Linda,
> >   Your good fortune is encouraging, however it is far from a guarantee that it is a safe practice.  Preserving in oil has a long folk history but it is currently not a practice that is recommended by the USDA or by The National Center for Home Food Preservation, who I quote here:
> >    
> >   How do I can oil with herbs? Can I can pesto?
> > 
> > Herbs and oils are both low-acid and together could support the growth of the disease-causing Clostridium botulinum bacteria. Oils may be flavored with herbs if they are made up for fresh use, stored in the refrigerator and used within 2 to 3 days. There are no canning recommendations. Fresh herbs must be washed well and dried completely before storing in the oil. The very best sanitation and personal hygiene practices must be used. Pesto is an uncooked seasoning mixture of herbs, usually including fresh basil, and some oil. It may be frozen for long term storage; there are no home canning recommendations.
> > 
> >      
> >   Yes, you are correct re garlic, or any food having contact with the soil, but that simply increases the potential for the introduction of bacteria of any type.  The incidious nature of botulism is that it doesn't always present visual cues of its presence, as with the more common types of bacterial spoilage, such as that which spoiled my dried tomatoes in oil and basil.  I just think that readers ought to know what precautions are necessary to avoid all problems before they jump in with both feet.
> >   jm
> > 
> >    
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20060205/fb36d682/attachment-0001.html
> > 
> > ------------------------------
> > 
> > Message: 6
> > Date: Sun, 05 Feb 2006 09:59:10 -0600
> > From: Jack Schmidling <arf at mc.net>
> > Subject: Re: [Cheese] A story about draining whey
> > To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" <cheese at hbd.org>
> > Message-ID: <43E620CE.7010000 at mc.net>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> > 
> > JOHN MURREN wrote:
> > > Who's jumping to conclusions?  Isn't it a good thing that corporate
> > > America is finding another use for whey?
> > 
> > Yes.  My point was the motivation not the utility of doing it.
> > 
> > >And I disagree that, in
> > > this case, it's only because of the sugar; it's very well known that
> > > a great deal of protein gets thrown away with the whey, and these
> > > guys love being able to note the added protein content on their label
> > > that the whey provides.....
> > 
> > They can do the same thing with soy protein but whey is obviously cheaper.
> > 
> > >I also doubt that the "whey problem" is as
> > > significant as you state,
> > 
> > You are free to doubt it but I think if you look into the issue you will 
> > find it a major expense of cheese production.
> > 
> > >as long as America still has a pork
> > > industry, why would they need to dump it?
> > 
> > Because of the transportation costs to get it to the pigs.  It costs as 
> > much or more to ship $3 per ton whey as it does to ship $3 a gallon 
> > gasoline.  The sewer was the least expensive alternative.
> > 
> > js
> > 
> > -- 
> > PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm
> > Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ------------------------------
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Cheese mailing list
> > Cheese at hbd.org
> > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese
> > 
> > 
> > End of Cheese Digest, Vol 6, Issue 8
> > ************************************
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2006 13:13:28 -0800 (PST)
> From: "M. M." <yikezilla at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Cheese] Advanced book recommendations?
> To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" <cheese at hbd.org>
> Message-ID: <20060205211328.86260.qmail at web36515.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> 
> Arthur Hill of the University of Guelph's Department of
> Food Sciences has created an excellent website on cheese
> making.  While it is primarily geared to commercial
> production, you might find it interesting for the technical
> content.  It includes a section on home-based cheese making
> as well.
> 
> The address is:
> http://www.foodsci.uoguelph.ca/cheese/welcom.htm
> 
> Hope this helps,
> 
> 
> Marcia
> 
> 
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
> http://mail.yahoo.com 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 05 Feb 2006 15:14:09 -0600
> From: Jack Schmidling <arf at mc.net>
> Subject: Re: [Cheese] Preserving in Oil
> To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" <cheese at hbd.org>
> Message-ID: <43E66AA1.40006 at mc.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> 
> JOHN MURREN wrote:
> 
> > Preserving in oil has a long
> > folk history but it is currently not a practice that is recommended
> > by the USDA....
> 
> I was hoping someone else would bring this up as I hate to be the 
> spoiler all the time.
> 
> Nothing is prettier, tastier or more dangerous than the folksy garlic in 
> oil.  It seems so easy and down home but think Russian Roulette when 
> doing it.
> 
> js
> 
> -- 
> PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm
> Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2006 14:56:16 -0800 (PST)
> From: dean crabtree <dean_crabtree_1958 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Cheese] Preserving in Oil
> To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" <cheese at hbd.org>
> Message-ID: <20060205225616.86466.qmail at web36214.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> I need to go with the National Center for Home Food Preservation on this.  Dr. Andress and her team focus their research on preservation that is done in the home, not in an industrial setting.  The research is quite thorough.  I also do home canning, and the subject of C. Bot comes up quite a bit in our discussions on another list.
>    
>   On a lighter note, I am about to start pressing a stirred curd cheddar in my polypro experimental hoop and follower.  I didn't get the chance that other week, so I am anxious to see where the increased pressing weight (large diameter hoop) is going.  I'll let ya'll know if it presses okay, or . . .
>    
>   It's about SB XL kickoff and my home-made blue's have been a hit with the little crowd (running a bit of a show and tell).  I actually just got on-line to see that I had lost an eBay bid, and was sucked into the email vortex.
>    
>   More later, fellow cheeseheads,
>    
>   Dean C.
> 
> 		
> ---------------------------------
> Relax. Yahoo! Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses!
> -------------- next part --------------
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Cheese mailing list
> Cheese at hbd.org
> http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese
> 
> 
> End of Cheese Digest, Vol 6, Issue 9
> ************************************


From erica.schechter at gmail.com  Mon Feb  6 01:18:25 2006
From: erica.schechter at gmail.com (Erica Schechter)
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 01:18:25 -0500
Subject: [Cheese] chevre balls
In-Reply-To: <FEEAJLCCMBNHNFHOGPAGOEPHGAAA.emerald@hawk.igs.net>
References: <mailman.391.1139060086.2625.cheese@hbd.org>
	<FEEAJLCCMBNHNFHOGPAGOEPHGAAA.emerald@hawk.igs.net>
Message-ID: <9d3206c0602052218g19db1a3aof7f78e0d421b8864@mail.gmail.com>

Miskin, how did you make the cranberry-cashew ones? That sounds delicious!
--Erica

On 2/4/06, Miskin Meadows <emerald at hawk.igs.net> wrote:
>
> Hi Linda,
>
> what herbs would you add? I have chives in oil, garlic, herb de province,
> fine herbs mixes to try. I agree with the olive oil being best for
> preserving but that too left long enough on the counter will go bad. It
> might be though the spices or the little bit if whey that adds to the oils.
> I'd love to hear what spices folks use..
>
> I got great feedback from my clients on some new ones I did the other day..
> it was a good experiment.
> 1.  Herbs & Garlic  (everyone always loves this one)
> 2. Salsa- (everyone loved this one, one client said too salty for her taste
> but she doesn't use salt<LOL>)
> 3. Sun dried tomatoes & Bacon- (Everyone said amazing flavor but this one
> was drier.. I think the bacon soaked up some of the moisture)
> 4. Grainy mustard- (everyone said excellent with ham/meats on and the cheese
> together, which is how I told them to eat it. )
> 5. Cranberry & Cashews-( this one was drier as it drained longer so most
> wanted it like the others more moist. some said to add cranberry juice for
> stronger flavor as it was great tasting but very mild) Also I told them to
> try this with fresh fruit and honey and they loved it that way too.
>
> So all in all the samples went well with test home # 1
> I really want to try them with the balls in oil this week.
>
> Regards,
> Bev & John
> Miskin Meadows Farm
> http://www.hawk.igs.net/~emerald/index.html
> Owner VankleekHill_Freecycle
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VankleekHill_Freecycle
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.0/249 - Release Date: 02/02/2006
>
> _______________________________________________
> Cheese mailing list
> Cheese at hbd.org
> http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese
>



From erica.schechter at gmail.com  Mon Feb  6 01:23:07 2006
From: erica.schechter at gmail.com (Erica Schechter)
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 01:23:07 -0500
Subject: [Cheese] Buttermilk
Message-ID: <9d3206c0602052223t179f66acg34ab1f5562e4fb1c@mail.gmail.com>

I'm thinking about making my own buttermilk, as I love homemade ranch
dressing. Is it significantly better than the storebought stuff? Or
should I save the effort?

--Erica



From emerald at hawk.igs.net  Mon Feb  6 07:23:48 2006
From: emerald at hawk.igs.net (Miskin Meadows)
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 07:23:48 -0500
Subject: [Cheese] cashew & cranberry cheese
In-Reply-To: <mailman.432.1139207501.2625.cheese@hbd.org>
Message-ID: <FEEAJLCCMBNHNFHOGPAGGEFEGBAA.emerald@hawk.igs.net>

Hi Erica,

I chopped up the cranberries finely and added some to the cheese then rough
chopped the cashews. I rolled the chevre ball into a mixture of both and
wrapped it up. I found it to be very mild in flavor but maybe after a few
days it would be stronger. I think too I will add some cranberry juice to
the cheese to give a little more flavor.


Regards,
Bev & John
Miskin Meadows Farm
http://www.hawk.igs.net/~emerald/index.html
Owner VankleekHill_Freecycle
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VankleekHill_Freecycle




--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.0/249 - Release Date: 02/02/2006



From arf at mc.net  Mon Feb  6 09:58:55 2006
From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling)
Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2006 08:58:55 -0600
Subject: [Cheese] Buttermilk
In-Reply-To: <9d3206c0602052223t179f66acg34ab1f5562e4fb1c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9d3206c0602052223t179f66acg34ab1f5562e4fb1c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <43E7642F.3020204@mc.net>

Erica Schechter wrote:
> I'm thinking about making my own buttermilk, as I love homemade ranch
> dressing. Is it significantly better than the storebought stuff? Or
> should I save the effort?

Good question when you consider how good Cool Whip is.

However, I think you will find that commercial buttermilk is as far 
removed from the real thing as Cool Whip is from whipped cream.

Traditional butter milk is the liquid and solids left after cream is 
churned into butter.  The commercial stuff is an industrial concoction 
made from by products of the industry... powdered milk, whey again, 
skimmed milk and a culture.  Read the ingredients on that label to get 
the idea.

I never cared for the stuff so I can not offer an opinion on the taste 
but I would be interested is hearing the results of a comparison.

js


-- 
PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm
Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com



From dean_crabtree_1958 at yahoo.com  Mon Feb  6 11:01:47 2006
From: dean_crabtree_1958 at yahoo.com (dean crabtree)
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 08:01:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Cheese] Buttermilk
In-Reply-To: <9d3206c0602052223t179f66acg34ab1f5562e4fb1c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20060206160147.40798.qmail@web36204.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Erica:
   
  I make cultured buttermilk.  I use it in making buttermilk white bread, buttermilk biscuits, as the liquid for marinating chicken before frying (yes, we still eat white bread and fried chicken in Texas), and also for ranch dressing.
   
  I even occasionally drink a small juice glass of it.  When I was a child, my grandfather drank a juice glass of it every night.  He said it aided digestion.
   
  Homemade is better.  It has better flavor, and it increases the oven spring of the baked goods.  Homemade is a lot cheaper too.  As far as effort goes, it is probably the easiest cultured dairy product to make.
   
  I use Fankhauser's directions, and use store-bought whole milk.  He uses his own goats' milk.
   
  HTH,
   
  Dean C.

		
---------------------------------
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From erica.schechter at gmail.com  Mon Feb  6 11:06:56 2006
From: erica.schechter at gmail.com (Erica Schechter)
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 11:06:56 -0500
Subject: [Cheese] Buttermilk
In-Reply-To: <43E7642F.3020204@mc.net>
References: <9d3206c0602052223t179f66acg34ab1f5562e4fb1c@mail.gmail.com>
	<43E7642F.3020204@mc.net>
Message-ID: <9d3206c0602060806y5aa85225q3deb9320004b55e8@mail.gmail.com>

Jack,

Thanks for the tip :) However, I'm planning on making cultured
buttermilk with either nonfat or 1% milk. I make a healthy ranch
dressing with a combination of plain nonfat yogurt and 1% buttermilk.
So I don't know...maybe it will be similar to the commercial version?
In any case, I think I'll give it a shot...I need to order more
rennet, anyway ;)

--Erica

On 2/6/06, Jack Schmidling <arf at mc.net> wrote:
> Erica Schechter wrote:
> > I'm thinking about making my own buttermilk, as I love homemade ranch
> > dressing. Is it significantly better than the storebought stuff? Or
> > should I save the effort?
>
> Good question when you consider how good Cool Whip is.
>
> However, I think you will find that commercial buttermilk is as far
> removed from the real thing as Cool Whip is from whipped cream.
>
> Traditional butter milk is the liquid and solids left after cream is
> churned into butter.  The commercial stuff is an industrial concoction
> made from by products of the industry... powdered milk, whey again,
> skimmed milk and a culture.  Read the ingredients on that label to get
> the idea.
>
> I never cared for the stuff so I can not offer an opinion on the taste
> but I would be interested is hearing the results of a comparison.
>
> js
>
>
> --
> PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm
> Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Cheese mailing list
> Cheese at hbd.org
> http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese
>



From dean_crabtree_1958 at yahoo.com  Mon Feb  6 11:40:29 2006
From: dean_crabtree_1958 at yahoo.com (dean crabtree)
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 08:40:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Cheese] Report on my cheesey experiment (was Molds (sorry,
	long post))
In-Reply-To: <43C88622.602@mc.net>
Message-ID: <20060206164029.10454.qmail@web36202.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

About that experimental polypro set up that I tried; I said that "I'd let ya'll know if it worked out or . . . "   The answer is ?Or . . .?
   
  My primitive set up is based on the Fias Co Farms plan (did they really mean to name their place "fiasco"?) and with the larger alignment holes of the top board, it is inadequate for the task of pressing greater than 50#.  Too much play, too much wobble.  I stopped at 90#, and this morning at about half way through the 24 hour pressing, the cheese had an uneven lean, so I flipped and redressed it and hopefully when I get home tonight it will have settled back into a decent looking wheel.  The "feel" of the cheese this morning has me thinking -- like thinking hasn't bit me in the a** before -- this will be just fine for the cheese.  Jack's 6" press already has a 100# spring, and I have been trying to reinvent the wheel.
   
  On a happier note, I need to get some dig pix of my little baby stiltons to share.  They are half proportioned (but not half sized) little stilton wheels.  4"diameter x 6"  A normal stilton is 8"diameter x 12"  As they say in Austin:  they're cute as a button.  I have started to leave them in the mold sandwich (4" pvc) for five days, flipping twice daily, before de-hooping and smoothing them.  I have also started to add a small amount of the mild lipase enzyme (I get from Leener's) which adds a nice flavor note to these blues.
   
  All the best,
   
  Dean C.
   

__________________________________________________
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From rosemarygoddess at moonwiseherbs.com  Mon Feb  6 13:16:49 2006
From: rosemarygoddess at moonwiseherbs.com (Linda Conroy)
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 11:16:49 -0700
Subject: [Cheese] homemade buttermilk
Message-ID: <200602061830.k16IUKiD022929@brew.hbd.org>

I make cultured butter and then use the resulting 
buttermilk to bake, cook etc with. It is the best!  I 
use a culture called piima to culture the cream-the 
buttlermilk is light and creamy. I made a delicious 
avacado -buttermilk dressing recently and was that 
ever yummy. You can also use buttermilk from the 
store as the culture  for your butter and buttermilk. 
Leave a few TBS sit in cream at room temperture 
until it thickens (1-2 days), churn your butter and 
you get two cultured products that are delicous and 
help to promote digestion!! 
Happy Cheese Making
Linda
www.moonwiseherbs.com>

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> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it 
is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Cheese digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>    1. Buttermilk (Erica Schechter)
>    2. Re: cashew & cranberry cheese (Miskin 
Meadows)
>    3. Re: Buttermilk (Jack Schmidling)
>    4. Re: Buttermilk (dean crabtree)
>    5. Re: Buttermilk (Erica Schechter)
>    6. Report on my cheesey experiment (was 
Molds (sorry,	long
>       post)) (dean crabtree)
> 
> 
> 
---------------------------------------------------------------------
-
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 01:23:07 -0500
> From: Erica Schechter 
<erica.schechter at gmail.com>
> Subject: [Cheese] Buttermilk
> To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" 
<cheese at hbd.org>
> Message-ID:
> 	
<9d3206c0602052223t179f66acg34ab1f5562e4fb
1c at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> 
> I'm thinking about making my own buttermilk, as I 
love homemade ranch
> dressing. Is it significantly better than the 
storebought stuff? Or
> should I save the effort?
> 
> --Erica
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 07:23:48 -0500
> From: "Miskin Meadows" 
<emerald at hawk.igs.net>
> Subject: Re: [Cheese] cashew & cranberry 
cheese
> To: <cheese at hbd.org>
> Message-ID: 
<FEEAJLCCMBNHNFHOGPAGGEFEGBAA.emeral
d at hawk.igs.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> Hi Erica,
> 
> I chopped up the cranberries finely and added 
some to the cheese then rough
> chopped the cashews. I rolled the chevre ball 
into a mixture of both and
> wrapped it up. I found it to be very mild in flavor 
but maybe after a few
> days it would be stronger. I think too I will add 
some cranberry juice to
> the cheese to give a little more flavor.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> Bev & John
> Miskin Meadows Farm
> http://www.hawk.igs.net/~emerald/index.html
> Owner VankleekHill_Freecycle
> 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VankleekHill_Freec
ycle
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.0/249 - 
Release Date: 02/02/2006
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2006 08:58:55 -0600
> From: Jack Schmidling <arf at mc.net>
> Subject: Re: [Cheese] Buttermilk
> To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" 
<cheese at hbd.org>
> Message-ID: <43E7642F.3020204 at mc.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; 
format=flowed
> 
> Erica Schechter wrote:
> > I'm thinking about making my own buttermilk, 
as I love homemade ranch
> > dressing. Is it significantly better than the 
storebought stuff? Or
> > should I save the effort?
> 
> Good question when you consider how good 
Cool Whip is.
> 
> However, I think you will find that commercial 
buttermilk is as far 
> removed from the real thing as Cool Whip is from 
whipped cream.
> 
> Traditional butter milk is the liquid and solids left 
after cream is 
> churned into butter.  The commercial stuff is an 
industrial concoction 
> made from by products of the industry... 
powdered milk, whey again, 
> skimmed milk and a culture.  Read the 
ingredients on that label to get 
> the idea.
> 
> I never cared for the stuff so I can not offer an 
opinion on the taste 
> but I would be interested is hearing the results of 
a comparison.
> 
> js
> 
> 
> -- 
> PHOTO OF THE WEEK: 
http://schmidling.com/pow.htm
> Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, 
Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 08:01:47 -0800 (PST)
> From: dean crabtree 
<dean_crabtree_1958 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Cheese] Buttermilk
> To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" 
<cheese at hbd.org>
> Message-ID: 
<20060206160147.40798.qmail at web36204.mail.
mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> Erica:
>    
>   I make cultured buttermilk.  I use it in making 
buttermilk white bread, buttermilk biscuits, as the 
liquid for marinating chicken before frying (yes, we 
still eat white bread and fried chicken in Texas), 
and also for ranch dressing.
>    
>   I even occasionally drink a small juice glass of 
it.  When I was a child, my grandfather drank a 
juice glass of it every night.  He said it aided 
digestion.
>    
>   Homemade is better.  It has better flavor, and it 
increases the oven spring of the baked goods.  
Homemade is a lot cheaper too.  As far as effort 
goes, it is probably the easiest cultured dairy 
product to make.
>    
>   I use Fankhauser's directions, and use 
store-bought whole milk.  He uses his own goats' 
milk.
>    
>   HTH,
>    
>   Dean C.
> 
> 		
> ---------------------------------
> Relax. Yahoo! Mail virus scanning helps detect 
nasty viruses!
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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0206/bb62098c/attachment-0001.html
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 11:06:56 -0500
> From: Erica Schechter 
<erica.schechter at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Cheese] Buttermilk
> To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" 
<cheese at hbd.org>
> Message-ID:
> 	
<9d3206c0602060806y5aa85225q3deb9320004b
55e8 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> 
> Jack,
> 
> Thanks for the tip :) However, I'm planning on 
making cultured
> buttermilk with either nonfat or 1% milk. I make a 
healthy ranch
> dressing with a combination of plain nonfat 
yogurt and 1% buttermilk.
> So I don't know...maybe it will be similar to the 
commercial version?
> In any case, I think I'll give it a shot...I need to 
order more
> rennet, anyway ;)
> 
> --Erica
> 
> On 2/6/06, Jack Schmidling <arf at mc.net> wrote:
> > Erica Schechter wrote:
> > > I'm thinking about making my own buttermilk, 
as I love homemade ranch
> > > dressing. Is it significantly better than the 
storebought stuff? Or
> > > should I save the effort?
> >
> > Good question when you consider how good 
Cool Whip is.
> >
> > However, I think you will find that commercial 
buttermilk is as far
> > removed from the real thing as Cool Whip is 
from whipped cream.
> >
> > Traditional butter milk is the liquid and solids 
left after cream is
> > churned into butter.  The commercial stuff is an 
industrial concoction
> > made from by products of the industry... 
powdered milk, whey again,
> > skimmed milk and a culture.  Read the 
ingredients on that label to get
> > the idea.
> >
> > I never cared for the stuff so I can not offer an 
opinion on the taste
> > but I would be interested is hearing the results 
of a comparison.
> >
> > js
> >
> >
> > --
> > PHOTO OF THE WEEK: 
http://schmidling.com/pow.htm
> > Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, 
Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com
> >
> > 
_______________________________________
________
> > Cheese mailing list
> > Cheese at hbd.org
> > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese
> >
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 08:40:29 -0800 (PST)
> From: dean crabtree 
<dean_crabtree_1958 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [Cheese] Report on my cheesey 
experiment (was Molds (sorry,
> 	long post))
> To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" 
<cheese at hbd.org>
> Message-ID: 
<20060206164029.10454.qmail at web36202.mail.
mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> About that experimental polypro set up that I tried; 
I said that "I'd let ya'll know if it worked out or . . . "   
The answer is ?Or . . .?
>    
>   My primitive set up is based on the Fias Co 
Farms plan (did they really mean to name their 
place "fiasco"?) and with the larger alignment 
holes of the top board, it is inadequate for the task 
of pressing greater than 50#.  Too much play, too 
much wobble.  I stopped at 90#, and this morning 
at about half way through the 24 hour pressing, the 
cheese had an uneven lean, so I flipped and 
redressed it and hopefully when I get home tonight 
it will have settled back into a decent looking 
wheel.  The "feel" of the cheese this morning has 
me thinking -- like thinking hasn't bit me in the a** 
before -- this will be just fine for the cheese.  Jack's 
6" press already has a 100# spring, and I have 
been trying to reinvent the wheel.
>    
>   On a happier note, I need to get some dig pix of 
my little baby stiltons to share.  They are half 
proportioned (but not half sized) little stilton 
wheels.  4"diameter x 6"  A normal stilton is 
8"diameter x 12"  As they say in Austin:  they're cute 
as a button.  I have started to leave them in the 
mold sandwich (4" pvc) for five days, flipping twice 
daily, before de-hooping and smoothing them.  I 
have also started to add a small amount of the 
mild lipase enzyme (I get from Leener's) which 
adds a nice flavor note to these blues.
>    
>   All the best,
>    
>   Dean C.
>    
> 
> 
_______________________________________
___________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam 
protection around 
> http://mail.yahoo.com 
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> ------------------------------
> 
> 
_______________________________________
________
> Cheese mailing list
> Cheese at hbd.org
> http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese
> 
> 
> End of Cheese Digest, Vol 6, Issue 11
> *************************************


From arf at mc.net  Mon Feb  6 16:03:42 2006
From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling)
Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2006 15:03:42 -0600
Subject: [Cheese] Buttermilk
In-Reply-To: <9d3206c0602060806y5aa85225q3deb9320004b55e8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9d3206c0602052223t179f66acg34ab1f5562e4fb1c@mail.gmail.com>	<43E7642F.3020204@mc.net>
	<9d3206c0602060806y5aa85225q3deb9320004b55e8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <43E7B9AE.5010901@mc.net>

Erica Schechter wrote:

> Thanks for the tip :) However, I'm planning on making cultured
> buttermilk with either nonfat or 1% milk. I make a healthy ranch
> dressing with a combination of plain nonfat yogurt and 1% buttermilk.
> So I don't know...maybe it will be similar to the commercial version?

Making buttermilk from low fat milk sounds a lot like making yogurt. 
What is the difference?

And how does the "butter" get into this sort of butter milk?

js



-- 
PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm
Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com



From erica.schechter at gmail.com  Mon Feb  6 16:09:53 2006
From: erica.schechter at gmail.com (Erica Schechter)
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 16:09:53 -0500
Subject: [Cheese] Buttermilk
In-Reply-To: <43E7B9AE.5010901@mc.net>
References: <9d3206c0602052223t179f66acg34ab1f5562e4fb1c@mail.gmail.com>
	<43E7642F.3020204@mc.net>
	<9d3206c0602060806y5aa85225q3deb9320004b55e8@mail.gmail.com>
	<43E7B9AE.5010901@mc.net>
Message-ID: <9d3206c0602061309g4821b73j6cf6c17f794293e8@mail.gmail.com>

Re: yogurt, the cultures used are different. Most notably, yogurt
culture includes some ST thermo and bifidobacteria, whereas buttermilk
cultures appear to be flora danica with some acidophilus. Also, yogurt
is held at a higher temperature for a shorter amount of time.

Re: butter, I suppose that it has to do with the buttery-flavored
diacetyl production. Butter-flavor milk? ;)

Just my guesses...
--Erica

On 2/6/06, Jack Schmidling <arf at mc.net> wrote:
> Erica Schechter wrote:
>
> > Thanks for the tip :) However, I'm planning on making cultured
> > buttermilk with either nonfat or 1% milk. I make a healthy ranch
> > dressing with a combination of plain nonfat yogurt and 1% buttermilk.
> > So I don't know...maybe it will be similar to the commercial version?
>
> Making buttermilk from low fat milk sounds a lot like making yogurt.
> What is the difference?
>
> And how does the "butter" get into this sort of butter milk?
>
> js
>
>
>
> --
> PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm
> Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Cheese mailing list
> Cheese at hbd.org
> http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese
>



From jmurren at verizon.net  Tue Feb  7 06:26:02 2006
From: jmurren at verizon.net (JOHN MURREN)
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 03:26:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Cheese] Buttermilk
In-Reply-To: <9d3206c0602052223t179f66acg34ab1f5562e4fb1c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20060207112602.39278.qmail@web84013.mail.dcn.yahoo.com>

Erica,
  Have you ever used ranch dressing as the base for a blue cheese dressing?  It's the best!  That way, we can join two of our "creations" to make still another.
  John

Erica Schechter <erica.schechter at gmail.com> wrote:
  I'm thinking about making my own buttermilk, as I love homemade ranch
dressing. Is it significantly better than the storebought stuff? Or
should I save the effort?

--Erica

_______________________________________________
Cheese mailing list
Cheese at hbd.org
http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese
  

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From mavityre at comcast.net  Tue Feb  7 22:32:09 2006
From: mavityre at comcast.net (Brian)
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 19:32:09 -0800
Subject: [Cheese] Parrano cheese
References: <19a.44be7015.3110e431@aol.com> <43E032A0.2040400@mc.net>
Message-ID: <000d01c62c60$3e49e2f0$0201a8c0@YOURWX88VYRXO>

Hello Jack.
Went to the Napa Valley this last weekend and tasted some Parrano Gouda. 
they call it a "Deanery" cheese.
Parrano Cheese
Aged gouda is one of my favorite cheeses, so my fondness for Parrano 
Originale cheese was preordained. Another product of the Netherlands, this 
aged cheese is smooth and creamy like Gouda, but nuttier. It is often 
described as Italian in taste, somewhat like Parmesan. The company website 
describes it as a "deanery" cheese: "This is a type of cheese that uses a 
special coagulant to give it a slightly sweet, nut-flavored taste." I don't 
know about you, but talk of coagulants doesn't set off my salivary glands. 
Anyway, unlike most of my favorite cheeses, this one is of recent origin, so 
there is no cool story about the region of its birth. Still, it makes for a 
very tasty snack.



What pray tell is the "coagulants" they speak of?  Anywhere from "meso" or 
"thermo" starters to rennets I'm figuering.



Thanks

Brian


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From captain3 at bigpond.net.au  Wed Feb  8 00:45:19 2006
From: captain3 at bigpond.net.au (David Weltman)
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 16:15:19 +1030
Subject: [Cheese] Goats Milk
Message-ID: <001a01c62c72$d8fab240$0100000a@oemwy2dfyexm3a>

We have Goats Milk - Any recipes for making Cheese would be appreciated.

The Captain

 
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From ettacoop at hotmail.com  Wed Feb  8 07:26:52 2006
From: ettacoop at hotmail.com (Etta Cooper)
Date: Wed, 08 Feb 2006 12:26:52 +0000
Subject: [Cheese] Buttermilk
In-Reply-To: <20060206160147.40798.qmail@web36204.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BAY103-F40DBD8B4DB1918E0A2CAA9D8000@phx.gbl>

Hi, Dean
As a matter of interest, could you direct us to Frankhauser's recipe for 
buttermilk.  I like buttermilk
and want to bake with it as well.
Thanks



Etta Cooper









>From: dean crabtree <dean_crabtree_1958 at yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" <cheese at hbd.org>
>To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" <cheese at hbd.org>
>Subject: Re: [Cheese] Buttermilk
>Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 08:01:47 -0800 (PST)
>
>Erica:
>
>   I make cultured buttermilk.  I use it in making buttermilk white bread, 
>buttermilk biscuits, as the liquid for marinating chicken before frying 
>(yes, we still eat white bread and fried chicken in Texas), and also for 
>ranch dressing.
>
>   I even occasionally drink a small juice glass of it.  When I was a 
>child, my grandfather drank a juice glass of it every night.  He said it 
>aided digestion.
>
>   Homemade is better.  It has better flavor, and it increases the oven 
>spring of the baked goods.  Homemade is a lot cheaper too.  As far as 
>effort goes, it is probably the easiest cultured dairy product to make.
>
>   I use Fankhauser's directions, and use store-bought whole milk.  He uses 
>his own goats' milk.
>
>   HTH,
>
>   Dean C.
>
>
>---------------------------------
>Relax. Yahoo! Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses!


>_______________________________________________
>Cheese mailing list
>Cheese at hbd.org
>http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese




From erica.schechter at gmail.com  Wed Feb  8 09:13:30 2006
From: erica.schechter at gmail.com (Erica Schechter)
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 09:13:30 -0500
Subject: [Cheese] Parrano cheese
In-Reply-To: <000d01c62c60$3e49e2f0$0201a8c0@YOURWX88VYRXO>
References: <19a.44be7015.3110e431@aol.com> <43E032A0.2040400@mc.net>
	<000d01c62c60$3e49e2f0$0201a8c0@YOURWX88VYRXO>
Message-ID: <9d3206c0602080613l1f49ab47t4ed7e2935dec22f3@mail.gmail.com>

When you said "Italian taste", I immedietly thought that it might be
gouda made with thermo...worth a shot!

--Erica

On 2/7/06, Brian <mavityre at comcast.net> wrote:
> Hello Jack.
> Went to the Napa Valley this last weekend and tasted some Parrano Gouda.
> they call it a "Deanery" cheese.
> Parrano Cheese
> Aged gouda is one of my favorite cheeses, so my fondness for Parrano
> Originale cheese was preordained. Another product of the Netherlands, this
> aged cheese is smooth and creamy like Gouda, but nuttier. It is often
> described as Italian in taste, somewhat like Parmesan. The company website
> describes it as a "deanery" cheese: "This is a type of cheese that uses a
> special coagulant to give it a slightly sweet, nut-flavored taste." I don't
> know about you, but talk of coagulants doesn't set off my salivary glands.
> Anyway, unlike most of my favorite cheeses, this one is of recent origin, so
> there is no cool story about the region of its birth. Still, it makes for a
> very tasty snack.
>
>
>
> What pray tell is the "coagulants" they speak of?  Anywhere from "meso" or
> "thermo" starters to rennets I'm figuering.
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Brian
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Cheese mailing list
> Cheese at hbd.org
> http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese
>
>
>
>



From erica.schechter at gmail.com  Wed Feb  8 09:14:41 2006
From: erica.schechter at gmail.com (Erica Schechter)
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 09:14:41 -0500
Subject: [Cheese] Goats Milk
In-Reply-To: <001a01c62c72$d8fab240$0100000a@oemwy2dfyexm3a>
References: <001a01c62c72$d8fab240$0100000a@oemwy2dfyexm3a>
Message-ID: <9d3206c0602080614l44c5b5a3y2c997f8b2abaa481@mail.gmail.com>

http://fiascofarm.com/dairy/feta.html
http://fiascofarm.com/dairy/chevre.htm

Good luck!

On 2/8/06, David Weltman <captain3 at bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>
>  We have Goats Milk - Any recipes for making Cheese would be appreciated.
>
> The Captain
>
> [image: Upgrade Your Email - Click here!]<http://promos.hotbar.com/promos/promodll.dll?RunPromo&El=&SG=&RAND=66906&partner=hotbar>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Cheese mailing list
> Cheese at hbd.org
> http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese
>
>
>
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From dean_crabtree_1958 at yahoo.com  Wed Feb  8 09:14:41 2006
From: dean_crabtree_1958 at yahoo.com (dean crabtree)
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 06:14:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Cheese] Buttermilk
In-Reply-To: <BAY103-F40DBD8B4DB1918E0A2CAA9D8000@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <20060208141441.82330.qmail@web36206.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Sure, here it is:  http://biology.clc.uc.edu/fankhauser/Cheese/BUTTERMILK.HTM
Etta Cooper <ettacoop at hotmail.com> wrote:  Hi, Dean
As a matter of interest, could you direct us to Frankhauser's recipe for buttermilk. I like buttermilk and want to bake with it as well.
Thanks
		
---------------------------------
Relax. Yahoo! Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses!
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From dean_crabtree_1958 at yahoo.com  Wed Feb  8 09:21:14 2006
From: dean_crabtree_1958 at yahoo.com (dean crabtree)
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 06:21:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Cheese] Parrano cheese
In-Reply-To: <000d01c62c60$3e49e2f0$0201a8c0@YOURWX88VYRXO>
Message-ID: <20060208142114.22917.qmail@web36203.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Brian <mavityre at comcast.net> wrote:  ". . . they call it a "Deanery" cheese." 
   
  Okay, that's got my interest piqued.
   
  Dean C.
   
  "Deanery Creamery" -- no, too obvious.

			
---------------------------------
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From mavityre at comcast.net  Wed Feb  8 10:02:58 2006
From: mavityre at comcast.net (Brian)
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 07:02:58 -0800
Subject: [Cheese] Parrano cheese
References: <20060208142114.22917.qmail@web36203.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <001101c62cc0$bfab37d0$0201a8c0@YOURWX88VYRXO>

LOL

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: dean crabtree 
  To: The Cheese Makers' Digest 
  Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 6:21 AM
  Subject: Re: [Cheese] Parrano cheese


  Brian <mavityre at comcast.net> wrote:  ". . . they call it a "Deanery" cheese." 

  Okay, that's got my interest piqued.

  Dean C.

  "Deanery Creamery" -- no, too obvious.


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From hollen at woodsprite.com  Wed Feb  8 11:04:08 2006
From: hollen at woodsprite.com (Dion Hollenbeck)
Date: Wed, 08 Feb 2006 09:04:08 -0700
Subject: [Cheese] Goats Milk
In-Reply-To: <001a01c62c72$d8fab240$0100000a@oemwy2dfyexm3a>
References: <001a01c62c72$d8fab240$0100000a@oemwy2dfyexm3a>
Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20060208085634.01e848b8@parrot.woodsprite.com>

At 10:45 PM 2/7/2006, David Weltman wrote:
>We have Goats Milk - Any recipes for making Cheese would be appreciated.


I have been making goat's milk cheese for some time now.  I used the 
recipe from Ricki's book and bought the chevre starter from her web 
site (www.cheesemaking.com).  Could not be simpler.

One thing which I learned early on is that the milk is what makes the 
difference.  I went from making a Fromage Blanc as my first few tries 
using store bought cow's milk.  Then I tried chevre with store bought 
goat's milk.  Then I finally got a source of fresh raw goat's milk, 
and the difference was truly amazing.  With no difference in 
procedure or starter mix, the resulting curds all of a sudden had 
about 3/4" of whey on top of them, they had separated from the sides 
of the vessel and when ladeled out of the container for draining, 
held together instead of breaking apart at the slightest touch.  The 
curds drained much faster and when I divided them up to add herbs 
after draining, they immediately formed a ball that left no residue 
other than a very slight oily film on the sides of the bowl.  The 
store bought milk, produced curds that coated the sides of the bowl 
and had to be scraped off.

If you can get fresh goat's milk, the difference is *really* astounding.

dion



From dsnyder at swlaw.edu  Wed Feb  8 12:55:48 2006
From: dsnyder at swlaw.edu (Doug Snyder)
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 09:55:48 -0800
Subject: [Cheese] Parrano cheese
In-Reply-To: <000d01c62c60$3e49e2f0$0201a8c0@YOURWX88VYRXO>
References: <19a.44be7015.3110e431@aol.com> <43E032A0.2040400@mc.net>
	<000d01c62c60$3e49e2f0$0201a8c0@YOURWX88VYRXO>
Message-ID: <C209931C-3F02-49FF-87FD-D59F8B273927@swlaw.edu>

Here's a direct link but it doesn't explain much.  The ingredients  
page doesn't help either.

http://www.parrano.com/info/products.asp?language=en

Doug


On Feb 7, 2006, at 7:32 PM, Brian wrote:

> Hello Jack.
> Went to the Napa Valley this last weekend and tasted some Parrano  
> Gouda. they call it a "Deanery" cheese.
> Parrano Cheese
> Aged gouda is one of my favorite cheeses, so my fondness for  
> Parrano Originale cheese was preordained. Another product of the  
> Netherlands, this aged cheese is smooth and creamy like Gouda, but  
> nuttier. It is often described as Italian in taste, somewhat like  
> Parmesan. The company website describes it as a "deanery" cheese:  
> "This is a type of cheese that uses a special coagulant to give it  
> a slightly sweet, nut-flavored taste." I don't know about you, but  
> talk of coagulants doesn't set off my salivary glands. Anyway,  
> unlike most of my favorite cheeses, this one is of recent origin,  
> so there is no cool story about the region of its birth. Still, it  
> makes for a very tasty snack.
>
>
>
> What pray tell is the "coagulants" they speak of?  Anywhere from  
> "meso" or "thermo" starters to rennets I'm figuering.
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Brian
>
>
> <parrano.jpg>
> _______________________________________________
> Cheese mailing list
> Cheese at hbd.org
> http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese



From captain3 at bigpond.net.au  Wed Feb  8 20:40:15 2006
From: captain3 at bigpond.net.au (David Weltman)
Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 12:10:15 +1030
Subject: [Cheese] Goats Milk
References: <001a01c62c72$d8fab240$0100000a@oemwy2dfyexm3a>
	<9d3206c0602080614l44c5b5a3y2c997f8b2abaa481@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001001c62d19$c6f539b0$0100000a@oemwy2dfyexm3a>

Hi Erica,

Thanks for Info. You have a great site. I still have more to read!

Regards
Dave

 
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From erica.schechter at gmail.com  Sat Feb 11 13:32:20 2006
From: erica.schechter at gmail.com (Erica Schechter)
Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2006 13:32:20 -0500
Subject: [Cheese] Monterey Jack
Message-ID: <9d3206c0602111032r606bf5c9p463ab68849260e4a@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

I want to try and make monterey jack cheese. I have Ricki Caroll's
book, and plan to use the recipe. However, it only calls for a single
gallon of milk, whereas nearly all of her hard cheese recipes use two.
Additionally, it calls for 1/2 tsp of rennet, and she generally
recommends 1/4 tsp for a gallon and 1/2 tsp for 2 gallons. Is this
something particular to monterey jack, or is this just a typo?

--Erica



From jiladeh at ameritech.net  Sat Feb 11 13:45:41 2006
From: jiladeh at ameritech.net (Dehaven James W)
Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2006 10:45:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Cheese] repeat question
Message-ID: <20060211184541.72999.qmail@web80402.mail.yahoo.com>

I asked a couple of weeks ago and didn't get an answer.  Has anyone added red wine to their cheeses?
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From ettacoop at hotmail.com  Sat Feb 11 14:43:28 2006
From: ettacoop at hotmail.com (Etta Cooper)
Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2006 19:43:28 +0000
Subject: [Cheese] Buttermilk
In-Reply-To: <20060208141441.82330.qmail@web36206.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BAY103-F16AC8B2BC69B9C728F60F6D8050@phx.gbl>

Thanks for the URL.  I'm assuming when it says fresh whole milk, it mean 
fresh RAW milk.  Would this work at all with pasturized milk?

I'm now living in a place where I can get raw milk, but don't know the 
quality or purity of the dairy.



Etta Cooper









>From: dean crabtree <dean_crabtree_1958 at yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" <cheese at hbd.org>
>To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" <cheese at hbd.org>
>Subject: Re: [Cheese] Buttermilk
>Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 06:14:41 -0800 (PST)
>
>Sure, here it is:  
>http://biology.clc.uc.edu/fankhauser/Cheese/BUTTERMILK.HTM
>Etta Cooper <ettacoop at hotmail.com> wrote:  Hi, Dean
>As a matter of interest, could you direct us to Frankhauser's recipe for 
>buttermilk. I like buttermilk and want to bake with it as well.
>Thanks
>
>---------------------------------
>Relax. Yahoo! Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses!


>_______________________________________________
>Cheese mailing list
>Cheese at hbd.org
>http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese




From nixieknox at earthling.net  Sat Feb 11 18:43:13 2006
From: nixieknox at earthling.net (Nicki)
Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2006 23:43:13 -0000
Subject: [Cheese] Buttermilk
In-Reply-To: <BAY103-F16AC8B2BC69B9C728F60F6D8050@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <20060211234319.FKET11351.aamta11-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@bigboy>

I'm by no means experienced at this kind of thing, but I've followed this
with pasteurised milk and then drunk and cooked with the resulting product.
Seems fine to me.  :)

Nicki
 

-----Original Message-----
From: cheese-bounces at hbd.org [mailto:cheese-bounces at hbd.org] On Behalf Of
Etta Cooper
Sent: 11 February 2006 19:43
To: cheese at hbd.org
Subject: Re: [Cheese] Buttermilk

Thanks for the URL.  I'm assuming when it says fresh whole milk, it mean
fresh RAW milk.  Would this work at all with pasturized milk?

I'm now living in a place where I can get raw milk, but don't know the
quality or purity of the dairy.



Etta Cooper









>From: dean crabtree <dean_crabtree_1958 at yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" <cheese at hbd.org>
>To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" <cheese at hbd.org>
>Subject: Re: [Cheese] Buttermilk
>Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 06:14:41 -0800 (PST)
>
>Sure, here it is:  
>http://biology.clc.uc.edu/fankhauser/Cheese/BUTTERMILK.HTM
>Etta Cooper <ettacoop at hotmail.com> wrote:  Hi, Dean
>As a matter of interest, could you direct us to Frankhauser's recipe for 
>buttermilk. I like buttermilk and want to bake with it as well.
>Thanks
>
>---------------------------------
>Relax. Yahoo! Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses!


>_______________________________________________
>Cheese mailing list
>Cheese at hbd.org
>http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese


_______________________________________________
Cheese mailing list
Cheese at hbd.org
http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese




From nixieknox at earthling.net  Sat Feb 11 18:44:18 2006
From: nixieknox at earthling.net (Nicki)
Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2006 23:44:18 -0000
Subject: [Cheese] repeat question
In-Reply-To: <20060211184541.72999.qmail@web80402.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20060211234423.QLD21315.aamta10-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@bigboy>

yes.  whilst eating......
 
 


  _____  

From: cheese-bounces at hbd.org [mailto:cheese-bounces at hbd.org] On Behalf Of
Dehaven James W
Sent: 11 February 2006 18:46
To: cheese at hbd.org
Subject: [Cheese] repeat question


I asked a couple of weeks ago and didn't get an answer.  Has anyone added
red wine to their cheeses?

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From dean_crabtree_1958 at yahoo.com  Sun Feb 12 09:47:29 2006
From: dean_crabtree_1958 at yahoo.com (dean crabtree)
Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 06:47:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Cheese] repeat question
In-Reply-To: <20060211184541.72999.qmail@web80402.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20060212144729.775.qmail@web36201.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Yes and no.  I've made the Ziergerkase (the first of the whey cheeses in Ricki's book) where the formed cheese is ripened and flipped in a red wine / brine solution with herbs (I used rosemary).
   
  Clawson Dairy in England puts elderberry wine into some of their Cheddars, and most notably the Cheddar that they sandwich with Silton to make Royal Windsor cheese.  I've seen where some UK creameries use elderberry wine as a curd wash, like what you'd do with sage to make a Sage Derby.  Some time ago I saw some pictures on the net of (I think) an Irish dairy that also had a blueberry mash worked in between the curds.  They were very attractive looking cheeses.  I am going to attempt just this on the next hard cheese I make.  In all of these, I think the wine is only added as a curd wash before pressing.  Somehow I think the alcohol might interfer with the curd formation.
   
  BTW -- no one at my house was impressed with the Ziergerkase.

Dehaven James W <jiladeh at ameritech.net> wrote:
    I asked a couple of weeks ago and didn't get an answer.  Has anyone added red wine to their cheeses?
_______________________________________________
Cheese mailing list
Cheese at hbd.org
http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese


		
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From jiladeh at ameritech.net  Sun Feb 12 10:21:02 2006
From: jiladeh at ameritech.net (Dehaven James W)
Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 07:21:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Cheese] repeat question
In-Reply-To: <20060212144729.775.qmail@web36201.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20060212152102.39012.qmail@web80411.mail.yahoo.com>

Thanks.  I also wondered about the alcohol's effects on the curds; perhaps it could be added during the aging process

dean crabtree <dean_crabtree_1958 at yahoo.com> wrote:    Yes and no.  I've made the Ziergerkase (the first of the whey cheeses in Ricki's book) where the formed cheese is ripened and flipped in a red wine / brine solution with herbs (I used rosemary).
   
  Clawson Dairy in England puts elderberry wine into some of their Cheddars, and most notably the Cheddar that they sandwich with Silton to make Royal Windsor cheese.  I've seen where some UK creameries use elderberry wine as a curd wash, like what you'd do with sage to make a Sage Derby.  Some time ago I saw some pictures on the net of (I think) an Irish dairy that also had a blueberry mash worked in between the curds.  They were very attractive looking cheeses.  I am going to attempt just this on the next hard cheese I make.  In all of these, I think the wine is only added as a curd wash before pressing.  Somehow I think the alcohol might interfer with the curd formation.
   ! ;
  BTW -- no one at my house was impressed with the Ziergerkase.

Dehaven James W <jiladeh at ameritech.net> wrote:
    I asked a couple of weeks ago and didn't get an answer.  Has anyone added red wine to their cheeses?
_______________________________________________
Cheese mailing list
Cheese at hbd.org
http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese

    
---------------------------------
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http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese


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From arf at mc.net  Sun Feb 12 11:01:51 2006
From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling)
Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 10:01:51 -0600
Subject: [Cheese] Monterey Jack
In-Reply-To: <9d3206c0602111032r606bf5c9p463ab68849260e4a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9d3206c0602111032r606bf5c9p463ab68849260e4a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <43EF5BEF.8090501@mc.net>

Erica Schechter wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I want to try and make monterey jack cheese. I have Ricki Caroll's
> book, and plan to use the recipe.....

I didn't review Ricki's recipe but the "Jack" version of Monterey has a 
higher moisture content then Monterey.  This can be achieved in many 
ways so give it a try and see what happens.

The official method calls for a lower scald temp than is used for most 
meso based cheeses.  According to Scott... the temp should be 95F which 
is about the same temp as you start with.  This requires very slow and 
careful stirring of the curds after cutting to avoid destrorying it. 
Perhaps using more rennet is one way to ease this problem.

js


-- 
PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm
Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com



From arf at mc.net  Sun Feb 12 11:09:23 2006
From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling)
Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 10:09:23 -0600
Subject: [Cheese] repeat question
In-Reply-To: <20060211184541.72999.qmail@web80402.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20060211184541.72999.qmail@web80402.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <43EF5DB3.2020101@mc.net>

Dehaven James W wrote:
> I asked a couple of weeks ago and didn't get an answer.  Has anyone added red wine to their cheeses?

Dan Listerman, well known to all homebrewers, posted some experiments on 
  alt.cheese which pretty much agreed with what I told him would happen. 
  Dan is not on this list but perhaps someone might invite or at least 
get the answer from him.

Personally, I do not see how wine could contribute anything good to the 
cheese process.  There is no better taste than a sip of wine after a 
bite of cheese but to mix them... yuch!

As a point of interest, there are those who gouge a hole in a perfectly 
good Stilton and fill it with Port.  Yuch.... again.

js

-- 
PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm
Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com



From dean_crabtree_1958 at yahoo.com  Sun Feb 12 20:43:01 2006
From: dean_crabtree_1958 at yahoo.com (dean crabtree)
Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 17:43:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Cheese] repeat question
In-Reply-To: <43EF5DB3.2020101@mc.net>
Message-ID: <20060213014301.67959.qmail@web36211.mail.mud.yahoo.com>



Jack Schmidling <arf at mc.net> wrote:  ". . . As a point of interest, there are those who gouge a hole in a perfectly good Stilton and fill it with Port. . . "
   
  Well that's a reality check.  I couldn't think of destroying a Stilton I've nurtured that way.  I should probably stop by the cheese mongers at Whole Foods for a tasting wedge of an elderberry wine-treated cheese before I invest making a whole wheel of it.  I do like a Sage Derby now and then.  But the whole thing might just be something I file in my "tomato ice cream" file (just because you can, doesn't mean you should).
   
  Dean C.

		
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 PhotoMail  - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail.
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From mavityre at comcast.net  Sun Feb 12 21:03:28 2006
From: mavityre at comcast.net (Brian)
Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 18:03:28 -0800
Subject: [Cheese] repeat question
References: <20060213014301.67959.qmail@web36211.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <001001c63041$aec5e490$0201a8c0@YOURWX88VYRXO>

Tomatoes ice cream.................................
I'm at a loss for words.

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: dean crabtree 
  To: The Cheese Makers' Digest 
  Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 5:43 PM
  Subject: Re: [Cheese] repeat question




  Jack Schmidling <arf at mc.net> wrote:  ". . . As a point of interest, there are those who gouge a hole in a perfectly good Stilton and fill it with Port. . . "

  Well that's a reality check.  I couldn't think of destroying a Stilton I've nurtured that way.  I should probably stop by the cheese mongers at Whole Foods for a tasting wedge of an elderberry wine-treated cheese before I invest making a whole wheel of it.  I do like a Sage Derby now and then.  But the whole thing might just be something I file in my "tomato ice cream" file (just because you can, doesn't mean you should).

  Dean C.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From mavityre at comcast.net  Sun Feb 12 23:35:13 2006
From: mavityre at comcast.net (Brian)
Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 20:35:13 -0800
Subject: [Cheese] Mold (again)
References: <9d3206c0602111032r606bf5c9p463ab68849260e4a@mail.gmail.com>
	<43EF5BEF.8090501@mc.net>
Message-ID: <000b01c63056$e1c1e820$0201a8c0@YOURWX88VYRXO>

Hey Jack,
I have a Stilton and a Gorgonzola aging as we speak as you know............ 
my question is, should I scrape off the mold that is now growing on my 
unwaxed cheese's?  I have a Mancheo and Romano that are getting "furry".  I 
have been able to get all of the mold on the Romano due to the extended 
brine bath it was in, but the Manchego is out of control.  I can't get it 
all off.  Just tonight, I have smeared them with olive oil to keep them from 
drying and also in the hopes it may retard unwanted mold growth.
By the way, Stilton doing beautifully, the Gorgonzola, although not molding 
on the outside is aging nicely on the inside.  (I know this because I poked 
more holes in it and the bleu cheese smell was very evident)

1 more month until I start tasting a Farmhouse 
Cheddar.......................can't wait.

Brian



From mavityre at comcast.net  Sun Feb 12 23:44:03 2006
From: mavityre at comcast.net (Brian)
Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 20:44:03 -0800
Subject: [Cheese] cheddaring
References: <20060211184541.72999.qmail@web80402.mail.yahoo.com>
	<43EF5DB3.2020101@mc.net>
Message-ID: <000b01c63058$1db2f300$0201a8c0@YOURWX88VYRXO>

OK
What exactley does the cheddaring process accomplish?
Does it make the cheese more pungent, harder, softer, texture different? 
what?
What would be the difference between a trad cheddar and a farmhouse cheddar 
without the cheddaring process?

Thanks

Brian



From arf at mc.net  Mon Feb 13 09:52:06 2006
From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 08:52:06 -0600
Subject: [Cheese] cheddaring
In-Reply-To: <000b01c63058$1db2f300$0201a8c0@YOURWX88VYRXO>
References: <20060211184541.72999.qmail@web80402.mail.yahoo.com>	<43EF5DB3.2020101@mc.net>
	<000b01c63058$1db2f300$0201a8c0@YOURWX88VYRXO>
Message-ID: <43F09D16.4050300@mc.net>

Brian wrote:
> OK
> What exactley does the cheddaring process accomplish?
> Does it make the cheese more pungent, harder, softer, texture different? 
> what?

It removes a great deal of moisture.

> What would be the difference between a trad cheddar and a farmhouse cheddar 
> without the cheddaring process?

It it aint cheddared it aint Cheddar.  They call it stirred cheddar but 
I guess you need to make both and report back to us.

js

-- 
PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm
Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com



From arf at mc.net  Mon Feb 13 09:55:22 2006
From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 08:55:22 -0600
Subject: [Cheese] Mold (again)
In-Reply-To: <000b01c63056$e1c1e820$0201a8c0@YOURWX88VYRXO>
References: <9d3206c0602111032r606bf5c9p463ab68849260e4a@mail.gmail.com>	<43EF5BEF.8090501@mc.net>
	<000b01c63056$e1c1e820$0201a8c0@YOURWX88VYRXO>
Message-ID: <43F09DDA.9030807@mc.net>

Brian wrote:
> Hey Jack,
> I have a Stilton and a Gorgonzola aging as we speak as you know............ 
> my question is, should I scrape off the mold that is now growing on my 
> unwaxed cheese's?

I fear addressing messages to me on the list discourages others from 
responding.  I am just the janitor here.

Anyway, if your cheeses are unwaxed then dealing with mold is easy. Just 
rub it off.  Use oil or a bit of salt once a week.

js


-- 
PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm
Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com



From mavityre at comcast.net  Mon Feb 13 10:51:31 2006
From: mavityre at comcast.net (Brian)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 07:51:31 -0800
Subject: [Cheese] Mold (again)
References: <9d3206c0602111032r606bf5c9p463ab68849260e4a@mail.gmail.com>	<43EF5BEF.8090501@mc.net><000b01c63056$e1c1e820$0201a8c0@YOURWX88VYRXO>
	<43F09DDA.9030807@mc.net>
Message-ID: <000001c630b7$ce551a30$0201a8c0@YOURWX88VYRXO>

Thanks and I didn't mean to shut anybody else out.

Brian

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jack Schmidling" <arf at mc.net>
To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" <cheese at hbd.org>
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 6:55 AM
Subject: Re: [Cheese] Mold (again)


> Brian wrote:
>> Hey Jack,
>> I have a Stilton and a Gorgonzola aging as we speak as you 
>> know............
>> my question is, should I scrape off the mold that is now growing on my
>> unwaxed cheese's?
>
> I fear addressing messages to me on the list discourages others from
> responding.  I am just the janitor here.
>
> Anyway, if your cheeses are unwaxed then dealing with mold is easy. Just
> rub it off.  Use oil or a bit of salt once a week.
>
> js
>
>
> -- 
> PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm
> Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Cheese mailing list
> Cheese at hbd.org
> http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese 



From GRauscher at hamiltonmetals.com  Mon Feb 13 11:47:27 2006
From: GRauscher at hamiltonmetals.com (George Rauscher)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 10:47:27 -0600
Subject: [Cheese] Mold (again)
Message-ID: <1ADE6DAF5518BC4B8B328C9727524135CF167C@hmiex01.hamiltonmetals.com>

Hi, 
It is my understanding that if you wipe the mold off with a cloth that has been dipped in vinegar, it will inhibit future mold growth.  This is not to say that it will completely stop the mold growth but it will slow it down.
George

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian [mailto:mavityre at comcast.net]
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 9:52 AM
To: The Cheese Makers' Digest
Subject: Re: [Cheese] Mold (again)


Thanks and I didn't mean to shut anybody else out.

Brian

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jack Schmidling" <arf at mc.net>
To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" <cheese at hbd.org>
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 6:55 AM
Subject: Re: [Cheese] Mold (again)


> Brian wrote:
>> Hey Jack,
>> I have a Stilton and a Gorgonzola aging as we speak as you 
>> know............
>> my question is, should I scrape off the mold that is now growing on my
>> unwaxed cheese's?
>
> I fear addressing messages to me on the list discourages others from
> responding.  I am just the janitor here.
>
> Anyway, if your cheeses are unwaxed then dealing with mold is easy. Just
> rub it off.  Use oil or a bit of salt once a week.
>
> js
>
>
> -- 
> PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm
> Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Cheese mailing list
> Cheese at hbd.org
> http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese 

_______________________________________________
Cheese mailing list
Cheese at hbd.org
http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese



From mavityre at comcast.net  Mon Feb 13 12:25:36 2006
From: mavityre at comcast.net (Brian)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 09:25:36 -0800
Subject: [Cheese] Mold (again)
References: <1ADE6DAF5518BC4B8B328C9727524135CF167C@hmiex01.hamiltonmetals.com>
Message-ID: <000601c630c2$80e30c70$0201a8c0@YOURWX88VYRXO>

Thanks George.
I have tried using a brined soaked papertowel and that seems to work pretty 
well.  But it keeps coming back, so I think I'll try the vinegar next time.

Brian

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "George Rauscher" <GRauscher at hamiltonmetals.com>
To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" <cheese at hbd.org>
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 8:47 AM
Subject: Re: [Cheese] Mold (again)


> Hi,
> It is my understanding that if you wipe the mold off with a cloth that has 
> been dipped in vinegar, it will inhibit future mold growth.  This is not 
> to say that it will completely stop the mold growth but it will slow it 
> down.
> George
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brian [mailto:mavityre at comcast.net]
> Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 9:52 AM
> To: The Cheese Makers' Digest
> Subject: Re: [Cheese] Mold (again)
>
>
> Thanks and I didn't mean to shut anybody else out.
>
> Brian
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Jack Schmidling" <arf at mc.net>
> To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" <cheese at hbd.org>
> Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 6:55 AM
> Subject: Re: [Cheese] Mold (again)
>
>
>> Brian wrote:
>>> Hey Jack,
>>> I have a Stilton and a Gorgonzola aging as we speak as you
>>> know............
>>> my question is, should I scrape off the mold that is now growing on my
>>> unwaxed cheese's?
>>
>> I fear addressing messages to me on the list discourages others from
>> responding.  I am just the janitor here.
>>
>> Anyway, if your cheeses are unwaxed then dealing with mold is easy. Just
>> rub it off.  Use oil or a bit of salt once a week.
>>
>> js
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm
>> Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Cheese mailing list
>> Cheese at hbd.org
>> http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese
>
> _______________________________________________
> Cheese mailing list
> Cheese at hbd.org
> http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese
>
> _______________________________________________
> Cheese mailing list
> Cheese at hbd.org
> http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese 



From arf at mc.net  Mon Feb 13 12:37:37 2006
From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 11:37:37 -0600
Subject: [Cheese] Mold (again)
In-Reply-To: <000601c630c2$80e30c70$0201a8c0@YOURWX88VYRXO>
References: <1ADE6DAF5518BC4B8B328C9727524135CF167C@hmiex01.hamiltonmetals.com>
	<000601c630c2$80e30c70$0201a8c0@YOURWX88VYRXO>
Message-ID: <43F0C3E1.10403@mc.net>

Brian wrote:

> I have tried using a brined soaked papertowel and that seems to work pretty 
> well.  But it keeps coming back, so I think I'll try the vinegar next time.

Absolutely nothing will make it stay away other than reducing the 
humidity.  Just consider weekly wiping as part of the process and you 
will sleep better.

js



-- 
PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm
Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com



From mavityre at comcast.net  Tue Feb 21 20:23:56 2006
From: mavityre at comcast.net (Brian)
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 17:23:56 -0800
Subject: [Cheese] brown mold on blue cheese
References: <19a.44be7015.3110e431@aol.com> <43E032A0.2040400@mc.net>
Message-ID: <000601c6374e$a6929980$0201a8c0@YOURWX88VYRXO>

OK
(I'm going back a few posts here)  are you saying that one should leave the 
brown and blue mold on the unwaxed cheese in order to protect it as wax 
would?  I have been busy scrubbing with salt water and a toothbrush.

Brian

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jack Schmidling" <arf at mc.net>
To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" <cheese at hbd.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 8:01 PM
Subject: Re: [Cheese] brown mold on blue cheese


> WEMerlin at aol.com wrote:
>> When you eat this
>> cheese, is this mold a concern for health or taste? Do you scrape off 
>> what you
>> can and not worry about the rest, or do you cut off enough cheese to get 
>> rid
>> of  all of it? Or is there a way to 'wash' it off?
>
> As a general rule, just consider the rind waste.  It's a lot easier than
> worrying about it.  I don't know of any mold that is a health risk but
> most of them taste pretty yucky at the surface because that is mostly
> sporangia or the fruiting bodies I referred to previously.
>
> Unless you are waxing a cheese, the rind is a necessary evil.  It takes
> the place of wax and like wax, is removed before eating.
>
> js
>
> -- 
> PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm
> Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Cheese mailing list
> Cheese at hbd.org
> http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese 



From arf at mc.net  Tue Feb 21 22:45:21 2006
From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling)
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 21:45:21 -0600
Subject: [Cheese] brown mold on blue cheese
In-Reply-To: <000601c6374e$a6929980$0201a8c0@YOURWX88VYRXO>
References: <19a.44be7015.3110e431@aol.com> <43E032A0.2040400@mc.net>
	<000601c6374e$a6929980$0201a8c0@YOURWX88VYRXO>
Message-ID: <43FBDE51.20309@mc.net>

Brian wrote:

> (I'm going back a few posts here)  are you saying that one should leave the 
> brown and blue mold on the unwaxed cheese in order to protect it as wax 
> would?


Not exactly.  I am saying just wipe off whatever comes off and don't be 
anal about it.  Scraping or gouging off every bit of mold is a waste of 
time and unnecessarily exposes new cheese to the atmosphere.

If you rub it with oil once a week, you will remove the spores and just 
leave the mycelium behind in a weakened state.  When you cut into the 
cheese, just cut off the moldy rind and enjoy it.

js

-- 
PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm
Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com



From mavityre at comcast.net  Tue Feb 21 23:59:47 2006
From: mavityre at comcast.net (Brian)
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 20:59:47 -0800
Subject: [Cheese] brown mold on blue cheese
References: <19a.44be7015.3110e431@aol.com>
	<43E032A0.2040400@mc.net><000601c6374e$a6929980$0201a8c0@YOURWX88VYRXO>
	<43FBDE51.20309@mc.net>
Message-ID: <000601c6376c$cdd23960$0201a8c0@YOURWX88VYRXO>

Cool.
Thanks


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jack Schmidling" <arf at mc.net>
To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" <cheese at hbd.org>
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 7:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Cheese] brown mold on blue cheese


> Brian wrote:
>
>> (I'm going back a few posts here)  are you saying that one should leave 
>> the
>> brown and blue mold on the unwaxed cheese in order to protect it as wax
>> would?
>
>
> Not exactly.  I am saying just wipe off whatever comes off and don't be
> anal about it.  Scraping or gouging off every bit of mold is a waste of
> time and unnecessarily exposes new cheese to the atmosphere.
>
> If you rub it with oil once a week, you will remove the spores and just
> leave the mycelium behind in a weakened state.  When you cut into the
> cheese, just cut off the moldy rind and enjoy it.
>
> js
>
> -- 
> PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm
> Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Cheese mailing list
> Cheese at hbd.org
> http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese 



From mavityre at comcast.net  Sun Feb 26 19:40:34 2006
From: mavityre at comcast.net (Brian)
Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 16:40:34 -0800
Subject: [Cheese] Cheese results
References: <20060211184541.72999.qmail@web80402.mail.yahoo.com>	<43EF5DB3.2020101@mc.net><000b01c63058$1db2f300$0201a8c0@YOURWX88VYRXO>
	<43F09D16.4050300@mc.net>
Message-ID: <000601c63b36$6bb69b40$0201a8c0@YOURWX88VYRXO>

Howdy folks.

I used my cheese trier tonight and took a sample of my Farmhouse cheddar and 
my Trad. Cheddar made withthe wrong starter.

The farmhouse cheddar came out of the trier very crumbly and not really 
tasting like anything more than sour cream maybe.
The traditional cheddar made with the wrong starter came out nice and smooth 
in texture, almost a spreadable soft cheese.  The taste is really exciting! 
I can taste the mild sharpness and the wife really enjoyed it.  I hope I can 
keep it around for another 10 months.

The Farmhouse cheddar recipe is from Ricki Carrol's book and the traditional 
cheddar came from Jack's recipe page.

Brian



From mavityre at comcast.net  Sun Feb 26 19:52:17 2006
From: mavityre at comcast.net (Brian)
Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 16:52:17 -0800
Subject: [Cheese] Cheese results
References: <20060211184541.72999.qmail@web80402.mail.yahoo.com>	<43EF5DB3.2020101@mc.net><000b01c63058$1db2f300$0201a8c0@YOURWX88VYRXO><43F09D16.4050300@mc.net>
	<000601c63b36$6bb69b40$0201a8c0@YOURWX88VYRXO>
Message-ID: <000b01c63b38$0e7c91d0$0201a8c0@YOURWX88VYRXO>

Just tested the Gouda with the trier and it's crumbly and tastes like Feta.
Bizarre.




From erica.schechter at gmail.com  Mon Feb 27 11:44:17 2006
From: erica.schechter at gmail.com (Erica Schechter)
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 11:44:17 -0500
Subject: [Cheese] Cheese results
In-Reply-To: <000b01c63b38$0e7c91d0$0201a8c0@YOURWX88VYRXO>
References: <20060211184541.72999.qmail@web80402.mail.yahoo.com>
	<43EF5DB3.2020101@mc.net>
	<000b01c63058$1db2f300$0201a8c0@YOURWX88VYRXO>
	<43F09D16.4050300@mc.net>
	<000601c63b36$6bb69b40$0201a8c0@YOURWX88VYRXO>
	<000b01c63b38$0e7c91d0$0201a8c0@YOURWX88VYRXO>
Message-ID: <9d3206c0602270844i3e87b902m8464815ef5ecbbb5@mail.gmail.com>

Brian,

How long has the gouda been aging? Just curious...

--Erica

On 2/26/06, Brian <mavityre at comcast.net> wrote:
> Just tested the Gouda with the trier and it's crumbly and tastes like Feta.
> Bizarre.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Cheese mailing list
> Cheese at hbd.org
> http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese
>



From mavityre at comcast.net  Mon Feb 27 12:10:02 2006
From: mavityre at comcast.net (Brian)
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 09:10:02 -0800
Subject: [Cheese] Cheese results
References: <20060211184541.72999.qmail@web80402.mail.yahoo.com><43EF5DB3.2020101@mc.net><000b01c63058$1db2f300$0201a8c0@YOURWX88VYRXO><43F09D16.4050300@mc.net><000601c63b36$6bb69b40$0201a8c0@YOURWX88VYRXO><000b01c63b38$0e7c91d0$0201a8c0@YOURWX88VYRXO>
	<9d3206c0602270844i3e87b902m8464815ef5ecbbb5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000401c63bc0$a62bb640$0201a8c0@YOURWX88VYRXO>

Only a month.  I figure it will get better........... (fingers crossed)


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Erica Schechter" <erica.schechter at gmail.com>
To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" <cheese at hbd.org>
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 8:44 AM
Subject: Re: [Cheese] Cheese results


> Brian,
>
> How long has the gouda been aging? Just curious...
>
> --Erica
>
> On 2/26/06, Brian <mavityre at comcast.net> wrote:
>> Just tested the Gouda with the trier and it's crumbly and tastes like 
>> Feta.
>> Bizarre.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Cheese mailing list
>> Cheese at hbd.org
>> http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Cheese mailing list
> Cheese at hbd.org
> http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese 



From jmurren at verizon.net  Mon Feb 27 18:40:35 2006
From: jmurren at verizon.net (JOHN MURREN)
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 15:40:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Cheese] Still Another Cheese result
In-Reply-To: <000401c63bc0$a62bb640$0201a8c0@YOURWX88VYRXO>
Message-ID: <20060227234035.28229.qmail@web84015.mail.dcn.yahoo.com>


Greetings Cheesers,
  
I too have recently cut into one of my cheeses - a blue made from David Fankhauser's recipe - that has been aging for some 3+ months now.  Only now has it become less moist and compact, and it has begun to soften on the outside (just like very ripe store-bought blue does when it's been around awhile).  So I thought it was probably time to cut into it.  It was soft and creamy, not unlike other blues I've seen - this one spreads, not crumbles, but the taste is rich and delicious.  My one disappointment was that the mold was confined only to the area of the holes produced by the needle - the mold did not spread into the cheese.  But I assume that has a lot to do with the fact that the cheese was more moist than it should have been during aging (I probably didn't drain or press it enough initally - yes?).  However, that fact seems not to have affected the taste, which is very nice.  It makes a great spread for an English digestive biscuit!
   
  Has anyone else had a similar poor internal mold experience with blues?
   
  John
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From arf at mc.net  Mon Feb 27 23:03:04 2006
From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling)
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 22:03:04 -0600
Subject: [Cheese] Still Another Cheese result
In-Reply-To: <20060227234035.28229.qmail@web84015.mail.dcn.yahoo.com>
References: <20060227234035.28229.qmail@web84015.mail.dcn.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4403CB78.2010309@mc.net>

JOHN MURREN wrote:

>My one disappointment was that the mold was confined only
> to the area of the holes produced by the needle - the mold did not
> spread into the cheese....

I think you will find that the mold flavor goes far beyond the visible 
blue streaking.  But if you want more blue, it is a good idea to repeat 
the needling several times over the ripening period as the original 
holes tend to close up in time.

js

-- 
PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm
Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com



From dean_crabtree_1958 at yahoo.com  Tue Feb 28 10:58:27 2006
From: dean_crabtree_1958 at yahoo.com (dean crabtree)
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 07:58:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Cheese] Still Another Cheese result
In-Reply-To: <20060227234035.28229.qmail@web84015.mail.dcn.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20060228155827.85686.qmail@web36209.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

 
  JOHN MURREN wrote:  "Greetings Cheesers,  . . . .Has anyone else had a similar poor internal mold experience with blues?"
   
  John,
   
  That blue cheese of yours sounds just delicious, and I do like it when it is spreadable like that.  Maytag Blue often only shows the skewer marks, with just some more blue here and there.  (and sometimes it is loaded with pockets of blue that don't hardly seem connected at all.)  Here's a pic of Maytag Blue:
   
  
  If you get your email through a text-only reader, the site for that pic is http://www.foodsubs.com/Photos/maytagblue.jpg
   
  The flavor is not absolutely dependent upon how much blueing is evident.  The first blue I made, and also using Fankhauser's proceedure, gave me a cheese with very limited marbling of mold.  Someone told me it was like a jack with blue.  It was quite tasty, as I quickly "sampled" that cheese into non-existance.
   
  To help de-wet the curds before putting in the hoop, follow Jack's (and Ricki's) step of pressing the curd mass between boards for a period of time.  (I press between inverted Pyrex pie plates.)  Then mill the mass to walnut sized pieces, salt, and load the hoop. 
   
  The key to ribbons and marbling of the blue is a light pressing, and then plenty of skewering.  I skewer mine at six weeks and again at seven weeks.  Commercial outfits can make logs of cheese, or stack multiple wheel hoops so that the cheese itself provides the weight.  Our little hobby cheeses need just a bit of help, weight-wise.   I help with a follower and a pint jar with water.  I have also increased with a quart jar & water, but the jury's still out on which I prefer.  The ones with the final weight of a quart have much less marbling.
   
  I now am flipping my 4" PVC hoop twice daily for five days, in the mold sandwich, before dehooping the cheese and smoothing the outside.  That works well for me, as I can "make" a blue on a Sunday and flip throughout the week until after work on Friday.  That gives my family a Saturday that I am not cheese-ey -- and I can decide if I'm going to make another cheese on Sunday.
   
  BTW, we had a thread awhile back about adding wine to cheese.  I went to Whole Foods and got a wedge of a red wine/cheddar and, uhm, I'm not convinced my "market" of family and friends would "appreciate" the effort.  I'm not convinced I "appreciate" the effort, either.
   
  Wasn't it Wallace, upon eating the last of his Stilton and bemoaning that "there's no more cheese in the house" then looked up to the moon and said to Grommit "Everyone knows the moon is made of (green) cheese!" (palms out and fingers curled, and tapping thumbs together with delight)
   
  All the best,
   
  Dean C.

		
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From bac at NebrWesleyan.edu  Tue Feb 28 11:22:39 2006
From: bac at NebrWesleyan.edu (Barbara Cornelius)
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 10:22:39 -0600
Subject: [Cheese] Using raw milk
Message-ID: <86792f867890.86789086792f@NebrWesleyan.edu>

Hi all - I just joined the list, and I'm looking forward to learning
what I can about making cheese at home.

I have never made cheese before, although I am obsessed with all things
dairy. I've made my own yogurt and butter for several years, and these
usually turn out ok!

I have a source of fresh raw milk available to me, directly from the
farm. Jersey cows! They are so cute and friendly. I've drunk the milk
and really enjoy the taste.

I'm interested in making brie and camembert with this milk, but I'm not
sure exactly how to go about it, since all the directions I find for
making this cheese at home start with 'pasteurize the milk first.' Is
there anything special I need to do to get started, anything different I
need to do to use raw, non-homogenized milk?

Thanks in advance --

Barbara 


From jmurren at verizon.net  Tue Feb 28 11:35:44 2006
From: jmurren at verizon.net (JOHN MURREN)
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 08:35:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Cheese] Still Another Cheese result
In-Reply-To: <20060228155827.85686.qmail@web36209.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20060228163544.48316.qmail@web84001.mail.dcn.yahoo.com>



dean crabtree <dean_crabtree_1958 at yahoo.com> wrote:     
   
   
  Wasn't it Wallace, upon eating the last of his Stilton and bemoaning that "there's no more cheese in the house" then looked up to the moon and said to Grommit "Everyone knows the moon is made of (green) cheese!" (palms out and fingers curled, and tapping thumbs together with delight)
   
  Beautiful, Dean!  Kind of reminds one of Oscar's reply in the Odd Couple when one of his poker buddies asks what the green stuff in the fridge is; "...it's either new cheese or old meat!"
   
  Thanks for your comments - they are always enjoyable and enlightening.
  jm

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From arf at mc.net  Tue Feb 28 12:18:50 2006
From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling)
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 11:18:50 -0600
Subject: [Cheese] Using raw milk
In-Reply-To: <86792f867890.86789086792f@NebrWesleyan.edu>
References: <86792f867890.86789086792f@NebrWesleyan.edu>
Message-ID: <440485FA.9070803@mc.net>

Barbara Cornelius wrote:

> I'm interested in making brie and camembert with this milk, but I'm not
> sure exactly how to go about it, since all the directions I find for
> making this cheese at home start with 'pasteurize the milk first......

If home cheese making suppliers and publishers had to rely on those with 
access to fresh milk, it would be a limited market indeed.  You are most 
fortunate and Jersey at that.  Do nothing to it... just make cheese.

If you are not comfortable with the risk factor, only make hard cheeses 
and age them for 6 months before eating.  You might want to pasteurize 
it for cottage and other fresh cheeses.

If you know the source, base your judgment on the health of the family 
you are buying it from.

js

-- 
PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm
Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com



From bac at NebrWesleyan.edu  Tue Feb 28 12:37:19 2006
From: bac at NebrWesleyan.edu (Barbara Cornelius)
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 11:37:19 -0600
Subject: [Cheese] Using raw milk
Message-ID: <87246b87315d.87315d87246b@NebrWesleyan.edu>

Jack - thanks for your reply! I'm glad to hear that I don't need to do
anything special with the milk -- "just make cheese." I've experienced
raw-milk camembert only once, in England. If I want some here in the US,
I know I'll have to make my own.

I'm completely comfortable with the cleanliness of this milk; the farm
that sells it maintains strict standards, and are totally transparent
with their methods. I am very lucky indeed to have them close by. They
treat their cows like family members, albeit family members with names
like Latte and Au Lait. Miss Honey apparently was being 'immature'
during the milking process, so they sent her out to run around with the
beef herd for a season. I don't know if it was as a threat, or just to
let her grow up a bit... >:)

Now, I wonder if the farmer will give me a volume discount!! 

Thx again - 
Barbara 

> If home cheese making suppliers and publishers had to rely on those 
> with access to fresh milk, it would be a limited market indeed.  You are 
> most fortunate and Jersey at that.  Do nothing to it... just make cheese.
> 
> If you are not comfortable with the risk factor, only make hard 
> cheeses and age them for 6 months before eating.  You might want to 
> pasteurize it for cottage and other fresh cheeses.
> 
> If you know the source, base your judgment on the health of the 
> family you are buying it from.
> 
 


From bac at NebrWesleyan.edu  Tue Feb 28 12:54:13 2006
From: bac at NebrWesleyan.edu (Barbara Cornelius)
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 11:54:13 -0600
Subject: [Cheese] Using raw milk
Message-ID: <876869876074.876074876869@NebrWesleyan.edu>

One more question -- I'm reading through your cheesemaking instructions,
and I gather that if I'm not pasteurizing the milk, I do *not* need to
add a mesophilic or thermophilic starter? I just begin with the rennet?
I guess that's two questions.

Thanks for the patience with the newbie...


Barbara


From dsnyder at swlaw.edu  Tue Feb 28 13:04:09 2006
From: dsnyder at swlaw.edu (Doug Snyder)
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 10:04:09 -0800
Subject: [Cheese] Using raw milk
In-Reply-To: <876869876074.876074876869@NebrWesleyan.edu>
References: <876869876074.876074876869@NebrWesleyan.edu>
Message-ID: <CA5E5F49-3C96-4890-8444-417102B18AF3@swlaw.edu>

Those are cultures that help create specific flavor (among other  
things).  You would use them whether using raw milk or pasteurized  
milk.  You can absolutely make cheese without them but they're  
important for flavor.  Make two batches of mozzarella; one with  
mesophilic and one without and compare.  That's something you can do  
in a weekend that will help you learn exactly what they do.

Doug


On Feb 28, 2006, at 9:54 AM, Barbara Cornelius wrote:

> One more question -- I'm reading through your cheesemaking  
> instructions,
> and I gather that if I'm not pasteurizing the milk, I do *not* need to
> add a mesophilic or thermophilic starter? I just begin with the  
> rennet?
> I guess that's two questions.
>
> Thanks for the patience with the newbie...
>
>
> Barbara
> _______________________________________________
> Cheese mailing list
> Cheese at hbd.org
> http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese



From bac at NebrWesleyan.edu  Tue Feb 28 13:21:05 2006
From: bac at NebrWesleyan.edu (Barbara Cornelius)
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 12:21:05 -0600
Subject: [Cheese] Using raw milk
Message-ID: <87cef387a597.87a59787cef3@NebrWesleyan.edu>

Doug -
Ah, I see. Just like making sourdough bread.

Thanks for the info - I might try that experiment with mozzarella as you
suggest!

Barbara

> Those are cultures that help create specific flavor (among other  
> things).  You would use them whether using raw milk or pasteurized  
> milk.  You can absolutely make cheese without them but they're  
> important for flavor.  Make two batches of mozzarella; one with  
> mesophilic and one without and compare.  That's something you can 
> do  
> in a weekend that will help you learn exactly what they do.
> 
> Doug



From dsnyder at swlaw.edu  Tue Feb 28 13:31:02 2006
From: dsnyder at swlaw.edu (Doug Snyder)
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 10:31:02 -0800
Subject: [Cheese] Using raw milk
In-Reply-To: <87cef387a597.87a59787cef3@NebrWesleyan.edu>
References: <87cef387a597.87a59787cef3@NebrWesleyan.edu>
Message-ID: <4CB0EEEA-FEF6-4986-9D73-02C3E0A0C6F1@swlaw.edu>

Exactly.  Check out this page.  He does his cultures primarily from  
buttermilk that he "grows" himself.  But the mesophilic/thermophilic  
packets work too.

http://biology.clc.uc.edu/Fankhauser/Cheese/Cheese.html

Doug


On Feb 28, 2006, at 10:21 AM, Barbara Cornelius wrote:

> Doug -
> Ah, I see. Just like making sourdough bread.
>
> Thanks for the info - I might try that experiment with mozzarella  
> as you
> suggest!
>
> Barbara
>
>> Those are cultures that help create specific flavor (among other
>> things).  You would use them whether using raw milk or pasteurized
>> milk.  You can absolutely make cheese without them but they're
>> important for flavor.  Make two batches of mozzarella; one with
>> mesophilic and one without and compare.  That's something you can
>> do
>> in a weekend that will help you learn exactly what they do.
>>
>> Doug
>
> _______________________________________________
> Cheese mailing list
> Cheese at hbd.org
> http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese



From bac at NebrWesleyan.edu  Tue Feb 28 15:12:40 2006
From: bac at NebrWesleyan.edu (Barbara Cornelius)
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 14:12:40 -0600
Subject: [Cheese] Using raw milk
Message-ID: <88a61988dc52.88dc5288a619@NebrWesleyan.edu>

Doug - that page is an incredible wealth of information. I've been
reading and reading --- especially the comments page that includes all
kinds of troubleshooting questions.

Thanks for posting that link. I think based on what I've read there, I'm
not going to start with making brie/camembert. I think I'll try cottage
cheese or lebneh first!

Barbara

> Exactly.  Check out this page.  He does his cultures primarily from 
> 
> buttermilk that he "grows" himself.  But the 
> mesophilic/thermophilic  
> packets work too.
> 
> http://biology.clc.uc.edu/Fankhauser/Cheese/Cheese.html
> 
> Doug
> 
> 



From rosemarygoddess at moonwiseherbs.com  Tue Feb 28 15:26:27 2006
From: rosemarygoddess at moonwiseherbs.com (Linda Conroy)
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 13:26:27 -0700
Subject: [Cheese] raw milk
Message-ID: <200602282055.k1SKtaJM026970@brew.hbd.org>

Welcome Barbara,
I make all kinds of cheese with raw milk. You can follow any recipe and simply ignore the part about pastreurization. Also when you add rennet you need to top stir so that the cream is easily incorporated. There are alot of options about raw vs pasteurized milk (if you have not already read the information on realmilk.com I would highly recomend it), I personally have chosen for 10 years to make cheese with raw milk and it is always yummy!! 
happy cheese making
Linda>
 Send Cheese mailing list submissions to
> 	cheese at hbd.org
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> 	http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> 	cheese-request at hbd.org
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> 	cheese-owner at hbd.org
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Cheese digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>    1. Re: Cheese results (Erica Schechter)
>    2. Re: Cheese results (Brian)
>    3. Re: Still Another Cheese result (JOHN MURREN)
>    4. Re: Still Another Cheese result (Jack Schmidling)
>    5. Re: Still Another Cheese result (dean crabtree)
>    6. Using raw milk (Barbara Cornelius)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 11:44:17 -0500
> From: "Erica Schechter" <erica.schechter at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Cheese] Cheese results
> To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" <cheese at hbd.org>
> Message-ID:
> 	<9d3206c0602270844i3e87b902m8464815ef5ecbbb5 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> 
> Brian,
> 
> How long has the gouda been aging? Just curious...
> 
> --Erica
> 
> On 2/26/06, Brian <mavityre at comcast.net> wrote:
> > Just tested the Gouda with the trier and it's crumbly and tastes like Feta.
> > Bizarre.
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Cheese mailing list
> > Cheese at hbd.org
> > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese
> >
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 09:10:02 -0800
> From: "Brian" <mavityre at comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [Cheese] Cheese results
> To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" <cheese at hbd.org>
> Message-ID: <000401c63bc0$a62bb640$0201a8c0 at YOURWX88VYRXO>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> 	reply-type=original
> 
> Only a month.  I figure it will get better........... (fingers crossed)
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Erica Schechter" <erica.schechter at gmail.com>
> To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" <cheese at hbd.org>
> Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 8:44 AM
> Subject: Re: [Cheese] Cheese results
> 
> 
> > Brian,
> >
> > How long has the gouda been aging? Just curious...
> >
> > --Erica
> >
> > On 2/26/06, Brian <mavityre at comcast.net> wrote:
> >> Just tested the Gouda with the trier and it's crumbly and tastes like 
> >> Feta.
> >> Bizarre.
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Cheese mailing list
> >> Cheese at hbd.org
> >> http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Cheese mailing list
> > Cheese at hbd.org
> > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 15:40:35 -0800 (PST)
> From: JOHN MURREN <jmurren at verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: [Cheese] Still Another Cheese result
> To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" <cheese at hbd.org>
> Message-ID: <20060227234035.28229.qmail at web84015.mail.dcn.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> 
> Greetings Cheesers,
>   
> I too have recently cut into one of my cheeses - a blue made from David Fankhauser's recipe - that has been aging for some 3+ months now.  Only now has it become less moist and compact, and it has begun to soften on the outside (just like very ripe store-bought blue does when it's been around awhile).  So I thought it was probably time to cut into it.  It was soft and creamy, not unlike other blues I've seen - this one spreads, not crumbles, but the taste is rich and delicious.  My one disappointment was that the mold was confined only to the area of the holes produced by the needle - the mold did not spread into the cheese.  But I assume that has a lot to do with the fact that the cheese was more moist than it should have been during aging (I probably didn't drain or press it enough initally - yes?).  However, that fact seems not to have affected the taste, which is very nice.  It makes a great spread for an English digestive biscuit!
>    
>   Has anyone else had a similar poor internal mold experience with blues?
>    
>   John
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20060227/faef49f8/attachment-0001.html
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 22:03:04 -0600
> From: Jack Schmidling <arf at mc.net>
> Subject: Re: [Cheese] Still Another Cheese result
> To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" <cheese at hbd.org>
> Message-ID: <4403CB78.2010309 at mc.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> 
> JOHN MURREN wrote:
> 
> >My one disappointment was that the mold was confined only
> > to the area of the holes produced by the needle - the mold did not
> > spread into the cheese....
> 
> I think you will find that the mold flavor goes far beyond the visible 
> blue streaking.  But if you want more blue, it is a good idea to repeat 
> the needling several times over the ripening period as the original 
> holes tend to close up in time.
> 
> js
> 
> -- 
> PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm
> Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 5
> Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 07:58:27 -0800 (PST)
> From: dean crabtree <dean_crabtree_1958 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Cheese] Still Another Cheese result
> To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" <cheese at hbd.org>
> Message-ID: <20060228155827.85686.qmail at web36209.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
>  
>   JOHN MURREN wrote:  "Greetings Cheesers,  . . . .Has anyone else had a similar poor internal mold experience with blues?"
>    
>   John,
>    
>   That blue cheese of yours sounds just delicious, and I do like it when it is spreadable like that.  Maytag Blue often only shows the skewer marks, with just some more blue here and there.  (and sometimes it is loaded with pockets of blue that don't hardly seem connected at all.)  Here's a pic of Maytag Blue:
>    
>   
>   If you get your email through a text-only reader, the site for that pic is http://www.foodsubs.com/Photos/maytagblue.jpg
>    
>   The flavor is not absolutely dependent upon how much blueing is evident.  The first blue I made, and also using Fankhauser's proceedure, gave me a cheese with very limited marbling of mold.  Someone told me it was like a jack with blue.  It was quite tasty, as I quickly "sampled" that cheese into non-existance.
>    
>   To help de-wet the curds before putting in the hoop, follow Jack's (and Ricki's) step of pressing the curd mass between boards for a period of time.  (I press between inverted Pyrex pie plates.)  Then mill the mass to walnut sized pieces, salt, and load the hoop. 
>    
>   The key to ribbons and marbling of the blue is a light pressing, and then plenty of skewering.  I skewer mine at six weeks and again at seven weeks.  Commercial outfits can make logs of cheese, or stack multiple wheel hoops so that the cheese itself provides the weight.  Our little hobby cheeses need just a bit of help, weight-wise.   I help with a follower and a pint jar with water.  I have also increased with a quart jar & water, but the jury's still out on which I prefer.  The ones with the final weight of a quart have much less marbling.
>    
>   I now am flipping my 4" PVC hoop twice daily for five days, in the mold sandwich, before dehooping the cheese and smoothing the outside.  That works well for me, as I can "make" a blue on a Sunday and flip throughout the week until after work on Friday.  That gives my family a Saturday that I am not cheese-ey -- and I can decide if I'm going to make another cheese on Sunday.
>    
>   BTW, we had a thread awhile back about adding wine to cheese.  I went to Whole Foods and got a wedge of a red wine/cheddar and, uhm, I'm not convinced my "market" of family and friends would "appreciate" the effort.  I'm not convinced I "appreciate" the effort, either.
>    
>   Wasn't it Wallace, upon eating the last of his Stilton and bemoaning that "there's no more cheese in the house" then looked up to the moon and said to Grommit "Everyone knows the moon is made of (green) cheese!" (palms out and fingers curled, and tapping thumbs together with delight)
>    
>   All the best,
>    
>   Dean C.
> 
> 		
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Mail
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> 		
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> -------------- next part --------------
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 6
> Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 10:22:39 -0600
> From: Barbara Cornelius <bac at NebrWesleyan.edu>
> Subject: [Cheese] Using raw milk
> To: cheese at hbd.org
> Message-ID: <86792f867890.86789086792f at NebrWesleyan.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> 
> Hi all - I just joined the list, and I'm looking forward to learning
> what I can about making cheese at home.
> 
> I have never made cheese before, although I am obsessed with all things
> dairy. I've made my own yogurt and butter for several years, and these
> usually turn out ok!
> 
> I have a source of fresh raw milk available to me, directly from the
> farm. Jersey cows! They are so cute and friendly. I've drunk the milk
> and really enjoy the taste.
> 
> I'm interested in making brie and camembert with this milk, but I'm not
> sure exactly how to go about it, since all the directions I find for
> making this cheese at home start with 'pasteurize the milk first.' Is
> there anything special I need to do to get started, anything different I
> need to do to use raw, non-homogenized milk?
> 
> Thanks in advance --
> 
> Barbara 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Cheese mailing list
> Cheese at hbd.org
> http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese
> 
> 
> End of Cheese Digest, Vol 6, Issue 21
> *************************************


From bac at NebrWesleyan.edu  Tue Feb 28 15:37:06 2006
From: bac at NebrWesleyan.edu (Barbara Cornelius)
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 14:37:06 -0600
Subject: [Cheese] raw milk
Message-ID: <8909da890a0a.890a0a8909da@NebrWesleyan.edu>

Linda - thanks for your reply. I'm looking forward to giving this a try!

On Peter Fankhuser's site, he mentions the following in relation to
using raw milk:
"1: Filter the milk to remove straw, hair etc. 2: Use a fresh, active
starter and use a little more than usual. 3: Add 1 gram og potassium or
sodium nitrate per gallon of milk 4: Be extra careful about the hygiene
when making the cheese."

Now, I get the milk already filtered, so I'd skip #1. #4 is obvious. 

But, what do you think of guidelines #2 and 3? Apparently, the
potassium/sodium nitrates are to inhibit the coliform bacteria, but is
it really necessary? Do you do this?

Thanks again -
Barbara

----- Original Message -----
From: Linda Conroy <rosemarygoddess at moonwiseherbs.com>
Date: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 2:26 pm
Subject: Re: [Cheese] raw milk

> Welcome Barbara,
> I make all kinds of cheese with raw milk. You can follow any recipe 
> and simply ignore the part about pastreurization. Also when you add 
> rennet you need to top stir so that the cream is easily 
> incorporated. There are alot of options about raw vs pasteurized 
> milk (if you have not already read the information on realmilk.com 
> I would highly recomend it), I personally have chosen for 10 years 
> to make cheese with raw milk and it is always yummy!! 
> happy cheese making
> Linda>
 


From bac at NebrWesleyan.edu  Tue Feb 28 15:59:18 2006
From: bac at NebrWesleyan.edu (Barbara Cornelius)
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 14:59:18 -0600
Subject: [Cheese] raw milk
Message-ID: <8909a088e158.88e1588909a0@NebrWesleyan.edu>

Oops - replying to my own message. I meant to say 'David Fankhauser's site'


> ***> On Peter Fankhuser's site***, he mentions the following in
relation to
> using raw milk:
***SNIP***


From arf at mc.net  Tue Feb 28 16:08:36 2006
From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling)
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 15:08:36 -0600
Subject: [Cheese] Using raw milk
In-Reply-To: <CA5E5F49-3C96-4890-8444-417102B18AF3@swlaw.edu>
References: <876869876074.876074876869@NebrWesleyan.edu>
	<CA5E5F49-3C96-4890-8444-417102B18AF3@swlaw.edu>
Message-ID: <4404BBD4.40603@mc.net>

Doug Snyder wrote:
> Those are cultures that help create specific flavor (among other  
> things).  You would use them whether using raw milk or pasteurized  
> milk.  You can absolutely make cheese without them.....

I thought so too until I tried it.

My first unpasteurized milk cheese was a total loss.  After 5 hours, the 
pH was exactly where it was when I started it.

I then did a bit more research and learned that it is nearly impossible 
to make good cheese without external cultures.  Not because of flavor 
but because there just is not enough native flora to get things going in 
a reasonable amount of time.

The old dairy maid would always use a starter from yesterday's cheese to 
get the current one going.  The native flora will add character and 
flavor to a cheese but should not be counted on to produce the proper 
acidification of a fresh batch of cheese.

The sourdough analogy is not a good one because it also requires a 
culture to get started.  One can, with lots of luck, create a culture by 
just exposing the nutrient to the atmosphere but it is a very 
inefficient way to do it.  If one gets lucky and produces a usable 
culture, one would keep this going by regular nurturing and use this as 
the starter for future batches.

One can purchase a cheese culture and nurture it for years and never buy 
  again but it is risky business and the stuff is cheap enough.  It is 
not worth gambling the raw materials and time to save a few pennies.

js

-- 
PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm
Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com



From bac at NebrWesleyan.edu  Tue Feb 28 16:19:01 2006
From: bac at NebrWesleyan.edu (Barbara Cornelius)
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 15:19:01 -0600
Subject: [Cheese] Using raw milk
Message-ID: <892fd1891e7d.891e7d892fd1@NebrWesleyan.edu>

Hi Jack - thanks for the info. I guess what I meant when I referred to
sourdough is that while you *can* get sourdough bread with homegrown,
naturally occuring cultures from the environment, it's more consistent
and you get specific flavors that you're looking for if you inoculate
with prepared cultures (not leaving it to chance). That's what I
understood Doug's reference to be. Inoculating gives you specific
flavors, and more consistent results, than not. Like, buying sourdough
culture freezedried and using that instead of hoping to catch your own
in your own house.

Would that be the correct analogy, then?

Barbara

----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Schmidling <arf at mc.net>
Date: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 3:08 pm
Subject: Re: [Cheese] Using raw milk

> Doug Snyder wrote:
> > Those are cultures that help create specific flavor (among other  
> > things).  You would use them whether using raw milk or 
> pasteurized  
> > milk.  You can absolutely make cheese without them.....
> 
> I thought so too until I tried it.
> 
> My first unpasteurized milk cheese was a total loss.  After 5 
> hours, the 
> pH was exactly where it was when I started it.
> 
> I then did a bit more research and learned that it is nearly 
> impossible 
> to make good cheese without external cultures.  Not because of 
> flavor 
> but because there just is not enough native flora to get things 
> going in 
> a reasonable amount of time.
> 
> The old dairy maid would always use a starter from yesterday's 
> cheese to 
> get the current one going.  The native flora will add character and 
> flavor to a cheese but should not be counted on to produce the 
> proper 
> acidification of a fresh batch of cheese.
> 
> The sourdough analogy is not a good one because it also requires a 
> culture to get started.  One can, with lots of luck, create a 
> culture by 
> just exposing the nutrient to the atmosphere but it is a very 
> inefficient way to do it.  If one gets lucky and produces a usable 
> culture, one would keep this going by regular nurturing and use 
> this as 
> the starter for future batches.
> 
> One can purchase a cheese culture and nurture it for years and 
> never buy 
>  again but it is risky business and the stuff is cheap enough.  It 
> is 
> not worth gambling the raw materials and time to save a few pennies.
> 
> js
> 
> -- 
> PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm
> Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver 
> http://schmidling.com
> _______________________________________________
> Cheese mailing list
> Cheese at hbd.org
> http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese
> 


From dsnyder at swlaw.edu  Tue Feb 28 16:19:23 2006
From: dsnyder at swlaw.edu (Doug Snyder)
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 13:19:23 -0800
Subject: [Cheese] Using raw milk
In-Reply-To: <4404BBD4.40603@mc.net>
References: <876869876074.876074876869@NebrWesleyan.edu>
	<CA5E5F49-3C96-4890-8444-417102B18AF3@swlaw.edu>
	<4404BBD4.40603@mc.net>
Message-ID: <EEAC112B-540E-42BA-B29F-D3AE7A67E6BC@swlaw.edu>

Interesting, I've had trouble getting pasteurized milk to "cheese"  
but I've never had a problem with raw milk (usually purchased from  
Whole Foods here in Los Angeles).  I think I've only tried to make  
cheese with raw milk once without the mesophilic culture pack from  
New England Cheesemaking and it worked well.  Just didn't have much  
personality.  But I'm no expert and probably haven't made one 1/100th  
the cheese you have.

Doug


On Feb 28, 2006, at 1:08 PM, Jack Schmidling wrote:

> Doug Snyder wrote:
>> Those are cultures that help create specific flavor (among other
>> things).  You would use them whether using raw milk or pasteurized
>> milk.  You can absolutely make cheese without them.....
>
> I thought so too until I tried it.
>
> My first unpasteurized milk cheese was a total loss.  After 5  
> hours, the
> pH was exactly where it was when I started it.
>
> I then did a bit more research and learned that it is nearly  
> impossible
> to make good cheese without external cultures.  Not because of flavor
> but because there just is not enough native flora to get things  
> going in
> a reasonable amount of time.


From arf at mc.net  Tue Feb 28 18:58:20 2006
From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling)
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 17:58:20 -0600
Subject: [Cheese] Using raw milk
In-Reply-To: <892fd1891e7d.891e7d892fd1@NebrWesleyan.edu>
References: <892fd1891e7d.891e7d892fd1@NebrWesleyan.edu>
Message-ID: <4404E39C.7080303@mc.net>

Barbara Cornelius wrote:

> Like, buying sourdough
> culture freezedried and using that instead of hoping to catch your own
> in your own house.

> Would that be the correct analogy, then?

In a general way, yes but.... bread needs yeast to rise and there are 
many yeasts of various sorts floating around in the air.  Catching one 
that makes bread rise is not all that difficult but the signature of 
sourdough bread is the sour flavor that comes from acidifying bacteria 
that also has to be captured.

The other aspect that is quite different is that the sourdough culture 
sits around for days or weeks trolling for stuff and developing it's 
flavor so by the time you are ready to use it, you have a viable culture.

With cheese you have only about 5 hours to produce enough acid to make 
cheese that will keep for years.  There just is not enough bacteria to 
get that kind of fermentation going in 5 hours.

Brewers deal with the problem routinely.  We buy a culture with a very 
small amount of a pure strain and spend several days building this up to 
a quart or so of working beer before it is pitched into the new batch.

js

-- 
PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm
Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com



From alhiem at gmail.com  Tue Feb 28 21:16:19 2006
From: alhiem at gmail.com (Albert Ortiz)
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 22:16:19 -0400
Subject: [Cheese] raw milk
In-Reply-To: <8909da890a0a.890a0a8909da@NebrWesleyan.edu>
References: <8909da890a0a.890a0a8909da@NebrWesleyan.edu>
Message-ID: <1e5a81050602281816n628b88b8x9de77c4073c1717e@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

  This person is a biology doctor who has always made cheese with raw milk.
you can find his info at
http://biology.clc.uc.edu/Fankhauser/Cheese/Cheese.html

alberto

On 2/28/06, Barbara Cornelius <bac at nebrwesleyan.edu> wrote:
>
> Linda - thanks for your reply. I'm looking forward to giving this a try!
>
> On Peter Fankhuser's site, he mentions the following in relation to
> using raw milk:
> "1: Filter the milk to remove straw, hair etc. 2: Use a fresh, active
> starter and use a little more than usual. 3: Add 1 gram og potassium or
> sodium nitrate per gallon of milk 4: Be extra careful about the hygiene
> when making the cheese."
>
> Now, I get the milk already filtered, so I'd skip #1. #4 is obvious.
>
> But, what do you think of guidelines #2 and 3? Apparently, the
> potassium/sodium nitrates are to inhibit the coliform bacteria, but is
> it really necessary? Do you do this?
>
> Thanks again -
> Barbara
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Linda Conroy <rosemarygoddess at moonwiseherbs.com>
> Date: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 2:26 pm
> Subject: Re: [Cheese] raw milk
>
> > Welcome Barbara,
> > I make all kinds of cheese with raw milk. You can follow any recipe
> > and simply ignore the part about pastreurization. Also when you add
> > rennet you need to top stir so that the cream is easily
> > incorporated. There are alot of options about raw vs pasteurized
> > milk (if you have not already read the information on realmilk.com
> > I would highly recomend it), I personally have chosen for 10 years
> > to make cheese with raw milk and it is always yummy!!
> > happy cheese making
> > Linda>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Cheese mailing list
> Cheese at hbd.org
> http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese
>
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From arf at mc.net  Tue Feb 28 23:14:36 2006
From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling)
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 22:14:36 -0600
Subject: [Cheese] raw milk
In-Reply-To: <1e5a81050602281816n628b88b8x9de77c4073c1717e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8909da890a0a.890a0a8909da@NebrWesleyan.edu>
	<1e5a81050602281816n628b88b8x9de77c4073c1717e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <44051FAC.4020603@mc.net>

Albert Ortiz wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
>   This person is a biology doctor who has always made cheese with raw milk.
> you can find his info at
> http://biology.clc.uc.edu/Fankhauser/Cheese/Cheese.html

I don't see anywhere on his site where he suggests that a starter is not 
required with raw milk.  He uses buttermilk or yogurt as starters for 
all the recipes I saw.

js


-- 
PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm
Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com



From arf at mc.net  Tue Feb 28 20:27:43 2006
From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling)
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 19:27:43 -0600
Subject: [Cheese] Using raw milk
In-Reply-To: <EEAC112B-540E-42BA-B29F-D3AE7A67E6BC@swlaw.edu>
References: <876869876074.876074876869@NebrWesleyan.edu>	<CA5E5F49-3C96-4890-8444-417102B18AF3@swlaw.edu>	<4404BBD4.40603@mc.net>
	<EEAC112B-540E-42BA-B29F-D3AE7A67E6BC@swlaw.edu>
Message-ID: <4404F88F.8060300@mc.net>

Doug Snyder wrote:
> Interesting, I've had trouble getting pasteurized milk to "cheese"  
> but I've never had a problem with raw milk (usually purchased from  
> Whole Foods here in Los Angeles).  I think I've only tried to make  
> cheese with raw milk once without the mesophilic culture pack from  
> New England Cheesemaking and it worked well....

What sort of cheese was it?  I suppose one could make some sorts of soft 
cheese and not know it was not right.  But without a pH meter, it is 
really hard to know what is going on.

js


-- 
PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm
Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com




From dsnyder at swlaw.edu  Tue Feb 28 23:43:25 2006
From: dsnyder at swlaw.edu (Doug Snyder)
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 20:43:25 -0800
Subject: [Cheese] Using raw milk
In-Reply-To: <4404F88F.8060300@mc.net>
References: <876869876074.876074876869@NebrWesleyan.edu>	<CA5E5F49-3C96-4890-8444-417102B18AF3@swlaw.edu>	<4404BBD4.40603@mc.net>
	<EEAC112B-540E-42BA-B29F-D3AE7A67E6BC@swlaw.edu>
	<4404F88F.8060300@mc.net>
Message-ID: <AB828A91-25B7-4061-BFA0-346E6C83BF6E@swlaw.edu>

The only one I've made without culture was a mozzarella that sat  
overnight to "raise" culture.  I haven't ever checked pH when making  
cheese.  As I said, I'm not very advanced at this.  I'm sure that an  
aged cheese without culture would be a disaster.

Doug


On Feb 28, 2006, at 5:27 PM, Jack Schmidling wrote:

> Doug Snyder wrote:
>> Interesting, I've had trouble getting pasteurized milk to "cheese"
>> but I've never had a problem with raw milk (usually purchased from
>> Whole Foods here in Los Angeles).  I think I've only tried to make
>> cheese with raw milk once without the mesophilic culture pack from
>> New England Cheesemaking and it worked well....
>
> What sort of cheese was it?  I suppose one could make some sorts of  
> soft
> cheese and not know it was not right.  But without a pH meter, it is
> really hard to know what is going on.
>
> js
>
>
> -- 
> PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm
> Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http:// 
> schmidling.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Cheese at hbd.org
> http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese