From Davidpeters at comcast.net Wed Mar 1 11:16:01 2006 From: Davidpeters at comcast.net (Davidpeters@comcast.net) Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 16:16:01 +0000 Subject: [Cheese] Calcium Chloride Message-ID: <030120061616.24318.4405C8C10004BB7500005EFE22058863609C9D0A9B0A9F0B07900EBB@comcast.net> I recently subscribed and am thinking of take the plunge into cheese making. I have seen mention of addiing Calcium Chloride to help insure a firm curd. First, where do I find Calcium Chloride? and Secondly, how much is a little? I am planning to start witha a 1 gallon batch of Basic Cheese. Should I add some cream to the whole milk? How much? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20060301/afe8c36a/attachment-0002.html From dsnyder at swlaw.edu Wed Mar 1 12:29:26 2006 From: dsnyder at swlaw.edu (Doug Snyder) Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 09:29:26 -0800 Subject: [Cheese] Calcium Chloride In-Reply-To: <030120061616.24318.4405C8C10004BB7500005EFE22058863609C9D0A9B0A9F0B07900EBB@comcast.net> References: <030120061616.24318.4405C8C10004BB7500005EFE22058863609C9D0A9B0A9F0B07900EBB@comcast.net> Message-ID: <92C35087-FAF0-432B-8B87-4721591811E3@swlaw.edu> Well assuming you're going to work with a recipe I'd suggest using the amount in the recipe. But it's typically between a half and a full teaspoon per gallon. You can get Calcium Chloride from any cheesemaking supplier both online and possibly locally. Doug On Mar 1, 2006, at 8:16 AM, Davidpeters at comcast.net wrote: > I recently subscribed and am thinking of take the plunge into > cheese making. > I have seen mention of addiing Calcium Chloride to help insure a > firm curd. > First, where do I find Calcium Chloride? and > Secondly, how much is a little? I am planning to start witha a 1 > gallon batch of Basic Cheese. > Should I add some cream to the whole milk? How much? > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese From rosemarygoddess at moonwiseherbs.com Wed Mar 1 14:37:01 2006 From: rosemarygoddess at moonwiseherbs.com (Linda Conroy) Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 12:37:01 -0700 Subject: [Cheese] Cheese Digest, Vol 7, Issue 1 Message-ID: <200603012007.k21K6uhm013880@brew.hbd.org> Greetings. I use both purchased cultures and I make my own. I keep a culture called Piima, which I use to culture cream for butter making. Then I use the cultured buttermilk as a culture. You can also purchase cultured buttermilk, which as I understand it is cultured with a mesophillic culture. I only use cultures and rennet for hard cheese ie Cheddar, Gouda etc.-nothing else. Farm fresh milk does not need all that other stuff added. When I lived on a goat farm-we made a very nice farmstead cheese. We used the whey from the last batch of cheese to culture the next batch, this was always yummy and flavorful. We used 1 quart of whey to each gallon of milk. One thing to note is that with farm fresh milk the bacteria present will vary depending on what the animal is eating, where they are in their lactation cycle etc. If you have this information you can use it to make decisions about what type of cheese to make etc. Happy Cheese Making. > Linda Send Cheese mailing list submissions to > cheese at hbd.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > cheese-request at hbd.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > cheese-owner at hbd.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Cheese digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: raw milk (Barbara Cornelius) > 2. Re: raw milk (Barbara Cornelius) > 3. Re: Using raw milk (Jack Schmidling) > 4. Re: Using raw milk (Barbara Cornelius) > 5. Re: Using raw milk (Doug Snyder) > 6. Re: Using raw milk (Jack Schmidling) > 7. Re: raw milk (Albert Ortiz) > 8. Re: raw milk (Jack Schmidling) > 9. Re: Using raw milk (Jack Schmidling) > 10. Re: Using raw milk (Doug Snyder) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 14:37:06 -0600 > From: Barbara Cornelius > Subject: Re: [Cheese] raw milk > To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" > Message-ID: <8909da890a0a.890a0a8909da at NebrWesleyan.edu> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Linda - thanks for your reply. I'm looking forward to giving this a try! > > On Peter Fankhuser's site, he mentions the following in relation to > using raw milk: > "1: Filter the milk to remove straw, hair etc. 2: Use a fresh, active > starter and use a little more than usual. 3: Add 1 gram og potassium or > sodium nitrate per gallon of milk 4: Be extra careful about the hygiene > when making the cheese." > > Now, I get the milk already filtered, so I'd skip #1. #4 is obvious. > > But, what do you think of guidelines #2 and 3? Apparently, the > potassium/sodium nitrates are to inhibit the coliform bacteria, but is > it really necessary? Do you do this? > > Thanks again - > Barbara > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Linda Conroy > Date: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 2:26 pm > Subject: Re: [Cheese] raw milk > > > Welcome Barbara, > > I make all kinds of cheese with raw milk. You can follow any recipe > > and simply ignore the part about pastreurization. Also when you add > > rennet you need to top stir so that the cream is easily > > incorporated. There are alot of options about raw vs pasteurized > > milk (if you have not already read the information on realmilk.com > > I would highly recomend it), I personally have chosen for 10 years > > to make cheese with raw milk and it is always yummy!! > > happy cheese making > > Linda> > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 14:59:18 -0600 > From: Barbara Cornelius > Subject: Re: [Cheese] raw milk > To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" > Message-ID: <8909a088e158.88e1588909a0 at NebrWesleyan.edu> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Oops - replying to my own message. I meant to say 'David Fankhauser's site' > > > > ***> On Peter Fankhuser's site***, he mentions the following in > relation to > > using raw milk: > ***SNIP*** > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 15:08:36 -0600 > From: Jack Schmidling > Subject: Re: [Cheese] Using raw milk > To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" > Message-ID: <4404BBD4.40603 at mc.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Doug Snyder wrote: > > Those are cultures that help create specific flavor (among other > > things). You would use them whether using raw milk or pasteurized > > milk. You can absolutely make cheese without them..... > > I thought so too until I tried it. > > My first unpasteurized milk cheese was a total loss. After 5 hours, the > pH was exactly where it was when I started it. > > I then did a bit more research and learned that it is nearly impossible > to make good cheese without external cultures. Not because of flavor > but because there just is not enough native flora to get things going in > a reasonable amount of time. > > The old dairy maid would always use a starter from yesterday's cheese to > get the current one going. The native flora will add character and > flavor to a cheese but should not be counted on to produce the proper > acidification of a fresh batch of cheese. > > The sourdough analogy is not a good one because it also requires a > culture to get started. One can, with lots of luck, create a culture by > just exposing the nutrient to the atmosphere but it is a very > inefficient way to do it. If one gets lucky and produces a usable > culture, one would keep this going by regular nurturing and use this as > the starter for future batches. > > One can purchase a cheese culture and nurture it for years and never buy > again but it is risky business and the stuff is cheap enough. It is > not worth gambling the raw materials and time to save a few pennies. > > js > > -- > PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm > Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 15:19:01 -0600 > From: Barbara Cornelius > Subject: Re: [Cheese] Using raw milk > To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" > Message-ID: <892fd1891e7d.891e7d892fd1 at NebrWesleyan.edu> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Hi Jack - thanks for the info. I guess what I meant when I referred to > sourdough is that while you *can* get sourdough bread with homegrown, > naturally occuring cultures from the environment, it's more consistent > and you get specific flavors that you're looking for if you inoculate > with prepared cultures (not leaving it to chance). That's what I > understood Doug's reference to be. Inoculating gives you specific > flavors, and more consistent results, than not. Like, buying sourdough > culture freezedried and using that instead of hoping to catch your own > in your own house. > > Would that be the correct analogy, then? > > Barbara > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jack Schmidling > Date: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 3:08 pm > Subject: Re: [Cheese] Using raw milk > > > Doug Snyder wrote: > > > Those are cultures that help create specific flavor (among other > > > things). You would use them whether using raw milk or > > pasteurized > > > milk. You can absolutely make cheese without them..... > > > > I thought so too until I tried it. > > > > My first unpasteurized milk cheese was a total loss. After 5 > > hours, the > > pH was exactly where it was when I started it. > > > > I then did a bit more research and learned that it is nearly > > impossible > > to make good cheese without external cultures. Not because of > > flavor > > but because there just is not enough native flora to get things > > going in > > a reasonable amount of time. > > > > The old dairy maid would always use a starter from yesterday's > > cheese to > > get the current one going. The native flora will add character and > > flavor to a cheese but should not be counted on to produce the > > proper > > acidification of a fresh batch of cheese. > > > > The sourdough analogy is not a good one because it also requires a > > culture to get started. One can, with lots of luck, create a > > culture by > > just exposing the nutrient to the atmosphere but it is a very > > inefficient way to do it. If one gets lucky and produces a usable > > culture, one would keep this going by regular nurturing and use > > this as > > the starter for future batches. > > > > One can purchase a cheese culture and nurture it for years and > > never buy > > again but it is risky business and the stuff is cheap enough. It > > is > > not worth gambling the raw materials and time to save a few pennies. > > > > js > > > > -- > > PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm > > Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver > > http://schmidling.com > > _______________________________________________ > > Cheese mailing list > > Cheese at hbd.org > > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 13:19:23 -0800 > From: "Doug Snyder" > Subject: Re: [Cheese] Using raw milk > To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed > > Interesting, I've had trouble getting pasteurized milk to "cheese" > but I've never had a problem with raw milk (usually purchased from > Whole Foods here in Los Angeles). I think I've only tried to make > cheese with raw milk once without the mesophilic culture pack from > New England Cheesemaking and it worked well. Just didn't have much > personality. But I'm no expert and probably haven't made one 1/100th > the cheese you have. > > Doug > > > On Feb 28, 2006, at 1:08 PM, Jack Schmidling wrote: > > > Doug Snyder wrote: > >> Those are cultures that help create specific flavor (among other > >> things). You would use them whether using raw milk or pasteurized > >> milk. You can absolutely make cheese without them..... > > > > I thought so too until I tried it. > > > > My first unpasteurized milk cheese was a total loss. After 5 > > hours, the > > pH was exactly where it was when I started it. > > > > I then did a bit more research and learned that it is nearly > > impossible > > to make good cheese without external cultures. Not because of flavor > > but because there just is not enough native flora to get things > > going in > > a reasonable amount of time. > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 17:58:20 -0600 > From: Jack Schmidling > Subject: Re: [Cheese] Using raw milk > To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" > Message-ID: <4404E39C.7080303 at mc.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Barbara Cornelius wrote: > > > Like, buying sourdough > > culture freezedried and using that instead of hoping to catch your own > > in your own house. > > > Would that be the correct analogy, then? > > In a general way, yes but.... bread needs yeast to rise and there are > many yeasts of various sorts floating around in the air. Catching one > that makes bread rise is not all that difficult but the signature of > sourdough bread is the sour flavor that comes from acidifying bacteria > that also has to be captured. > > The other aspect that is quite different is that the sourdough culture > sits around for days or weeks trolling for stuff and developing it's > flavor so by the time you are ready to use it, you have a viable culture. > > With cheese you have only about 5 hours to produce enough acid to make > cheese that will keep for years. There just is not enough bacteria to > get that kind of fermentation going in 5 hours. > > Brewers deal with the problem routinely. We buy a culture with a very > small amount of a pure strain and spend several days building this up to > a quart or so of working beer before it is pitched into the new batch. > > js > > -- > PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm > Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 22:16:19 -0400 > From: "Albert Ortiz" > Subject: Re: [Cheese] raw milk > To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" > Message-ID: > <1e5a81050602281816n628b88b8x9de77c4073c1717e at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Hi all, > > This person is a biology doctor who has always made cheese with raw milk. > you can find his info at > http://biology.clc.uc.edu/Fankhauser/Cheese/Cheese.html > > alberto > > On 2/28/06, Barbara Cornelius wrote: > > > > Linda - thanks for your reply. I'm looking forward to giving this a try! > > > > On Peter Fankhuser's site, he mentions the following in relation to > > using raw milk: > > "1: Filter the milk to remove straw, hair etc. 2: Use a fresh, active > > starter and use a little more than usual. 3: Add 1 gram og potassium or > > sodium nitrate per gallon of milk 4: Be extra careful about the hygiene > > when making the cheese." > > > > Now, I get the milk already filtered, so I'd skip #1. #4 is obvious. > > > > But, what do you think of guidelines #2 and 3? Apparently, the > > potassium/sodium nitrates are to inhibit the coliform bacteria, but is > > it really necessary? Do you do this? > > > > Thanks again - > > Barbara > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Linda Conroy > > Date: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 2:26 pm > > Subject: Re: [Cheese] raw milk > > > > > Welcome Barbara, > > > I make all kinds of cheese with raw milk. You can follow any recipe > > > and simply ignore the part about pastreurization. Also when you add > > > rennet you need to top stir so that the cream is easily > > > incorporated. There are alot of options about raw vs pasteurized > > > milk (if you have not already read the information on realmilk.com > > > I would highly recomend it), I personally have chosen for 10 years > > > to make cheese with raw milk and it is always yummy!! > > > happy cheese making > > > Linda> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Cheese mailing list > > Cheese at hbd.org > > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20060228/afa828f8/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 22:14:36 -0600 > From: Jack Schmidling > Subject: Re: [Cheese] raw milk > To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" > Message-ID: <44051FAC.4020603 at mc.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Albert Ortiz wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > This person is a biology doctor who has always made cheese with raw milk. > > you can find his info at > > http://biology.clc.uc.edu/Fankhauser/Cheese/Cheese.html > > I don't see anywhere on his site where he suggests that a starter is not > required with raw milk. He uses buttermilk or yogurt as starters for > all the recipes I saw. > > js > > > -- > PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm > Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 19:27:43 -0600 > From: Jack Schmidling > Subject: Re: [Cheese] Using raw milk > To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" > Message-ID: <4404F88F.8060300 at mc.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Doug Snyder wrote: > > Interesting, I've had trouble getting pasteurized milk to "cheese" > > but I've never had a problem with raw milk (usually purchased from > > Whole Foods here in Los Angeles). I think I've only tried to make > > cheese with raw milk once without the mesophilic culture pack from > > New England Cheesemaking and it worked well.... > > What sort of cheese was it? I suppose one could make some sorts of soft > cheese and not know it was not right. But without a pH meter, it is > really hard to know what is going on. > > js > > > -- > PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm > Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 20:43:25 -0800 > From: Doug Snyder > Subject: Re: [Cheese] Using raw milk > To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed > > The only one I've made without culture was a mozzarella that sat > overnight to "raise" culture. I haven't ever checked pH when making > cheese. As I said, I'm not very advanced at this. I'm sure that an > aged cheese without culture would be a disaster. > > Doug > > > On Feb 28, 2006, at 5:27 PM, Jack Schmidling wrote: > > > Doug Snyder wrote: > >> Interesting, I've had trouble getting pasteurized milk to "cheese" > >> but I've never had a problem with raw milk (usually purchased from > >> Whole Foods here in Los Angeles). I think I've only tried to make > >> cheese with raw milk once without the mesophilic culture pack from > >> New England Cheesemaking and it worked well.... > > > > What sort of cheese was it? I suppose one could make some sorts of > > soft > > cheese and not know it was not right. But without a pH meter, it is > > really hard to know what is going on. > > > > js > > > > > > -- > > PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm > > Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http:// > > schmidling.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Cheese mailing list > > Cheese at hbd.org > > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > > > End of Cheese Digest, Vol 7, Issue 1 > ************************************ From arf at mc.net Wed Mar 1 15:45:16 2006 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 14:45:16 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] Calcium Chloride In-Reply-To: <030120061616.24318.4405C8C10004BB7500005EFE22058863609C9D0A9B0A9F0B07900EBB@comcast.net> References: <030120061616.24318.4405C8C10004BB7500005EFE22058863609C9D0A9B0A9F0B07900EBB@comcast.net> Message-ID: <440607DC.6090501@mc.net> Davidpeters at comcast.net wrote: > I am planning to start witha a 1 gallon batch of Basic Cheese. > Should I add some cream to the whole milk? How much? You need to review the basic process before you jump in. You almost must add cream and must not use whole milk if you are talking about store milk. There are lots of sources of info out there but I can only speak for my own which will give you the background needed to know how to get started. Ponder my cheesemaking page and then the cheese milk page for alternative milks that can be used. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From elf2 at losch.net Thu Mar 2 04:17:59 2006 From: elf2 at losch.net (cheri linkchorst) Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2006 04:17:59 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] (no subject) Message-ID: <4406B847.2050104@losch.net> Dear Linda, I'm new to all this and have started recently making cheese from my goats milk. Do you by any chance have a good old fashioned recipe for farmstead cheese? Also, could you explain thePiima culture and the way the whey is used to make future cheese? I really appreciate any help you or anyone here could offer. Cheri From hollen at woodsprite.com Thu Mar 2 10:10:54 2006 From: hollen at woodsprite.com (Dion Hollenbeck) Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2006 08:10:54 -0700 Subject: [Cheese] List Etiquette Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20060302075959.01e5c750@parrot.woodsprite.com> I would like to remind the members of this list of a point of list etiquette that applies to *every* list you can join over the internet. When you reply to a post, please take the time to edit the original post and only leave enough of the original post to establish a context for your reply. Especially if you are in digest mode, DO NOT copy the whole digest back to the list only to add a couple of lines of comments at the top. We have all seen all the posts already and do not need to see the whole digest once again. If you need an excellent example of proper editing, just look at any of Jack's posts. The reasons behind this are many. First, the HBD server is a little under powered. When you copy the whole digest back to the list, you are sending it out to everyone on the list and that can bog down the server with useless information that has already been sent. It also puts a duplicate copy of the information in the list archives, again, useless waste of disk space. Second, there may be people on this list who have a very slow internet connection or have to get their Email at an internet cafe and pay for every minute they are connected. Most Email lists are not confined to American urbanites with high speed connections, but also have subscribers around the world and in very rural areas with slow connections. One of the lists I manage has one subscriber in Kenya who gets his Email by using his cell phone - slow,slow,slow.... Please be considerate of your fellow members in this community and take the extra few minutes to edit your replies. Don't just hit SEND. And lastly, thanks to Jack for taking the thankless task of administering this list. He is *much* more patient with people than I would be. thanks and regards, dion -- Dion Hollenbeck Email: hollen at woodsprite.com Home Page: http://www.woodsprite.com Brewing Page: http://hbd.org/hollen Toys: 98 4Runner, 86 4x4 PU From rosemarygoddess at moonwiseherbs.com Thu Mar 2 12:50:21 2006 From: rosemarygoddess at moonwiseherbs.com (Linda Conroy) Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 10:50:21 -0700 Subject: [Cheese] farmer cheese etc Message-ID: <200603021821.k22IKdkr004199@brew.hbd.org> Dear Linda, I'm new to all this and have started recently making cheese from my goats milk. Do you by any chance have a good old fashioned recipe for farmstead cheese? Also, could you explain thePiima culture and the way the whey is used to make future cheese? I really appreciate any help you or anyone here could offer. Cheri Greetings Cheri, Here are excerpts from a handout that I offer in a home cheese making class that I teach. It has the information you ask about. Do note that I am making true farmstead cheese and have learned by observing if I have enough acidity-don't really need any fancy equipment. Developing a relationship with the process over time has given me the information I need to make a good cheese. For a farmstead cheddar I follow Ricki Carrol's recipe in her home cheese making book to some degree, but also add my experience from making the farmer cheese listed below. It is really challenging to follow a recipe, as every cheese acts slightly different and it is helpful to know when to cut the curd by observing not by time frame. Happy Cheese Making Linda Piima (pronounced Pee’ma) A Scandinavian Culture-this culture originated when it was noticed that cows who had grazed upon a northern European wild herb called Butterwort at the peak of its growth, milk would clabber at room temperature. It was then carefully cultured from this starter and fresh starter taken from each batch. Piima is similar to buttermilk acidophilus and kefir. Fermentation and culturing were among the early methods used to preserve and make more digestible the available foodstuffs. These methods were particularly used by nomadic peoples to transport their foods long distances without modern preservation and additive techniques. Directions: -Take one tsp of prepared Piima in a glass pint jar. Pour one pint of milk or cream over the prepared Piima. Stir and mix thoroughly. -let stand uncovered for 30 minutes -cover to exclude light or placed in a dark cupboard. Allow to stand for 24 hours (75 degrees is an ideal temperature-although I have found Piima to tolerate lower temperatures-it just may take a little longer to culture) -refrigerate after 24 hours to firm up the now cultured milk or cream. -It is now ready for use: to eat and use as a starter for your next batch. You can eat both of these directly-I love to dollop this on whatever I am eating and/or you can turn the milk into cheese (see instructions for Kefir and Yogurt Cheese) and the cream into cultured butter!! *freeze dried starters can be ordered through the Piima People Box 2614 La Mesa, CA 91943-2614 Farmer Cheese This is a simple cheese that is quickly crafted and delicious to eat!! I prefer to make this with goat milk, but it can easily be crafted with cow, sheep or whatever milk you have on hand. This recipe is adapted from one that was offered to me by herbalist Susun Weed. -Warm 1 gallon of milk to 80-90 degrees (you can add fresh whey from your previous batch of cheese as a culture-for every gallon of milk you can add 1 quart of whey. This is not necessary, but it will add flavor to your cheese) -Once the milk has reached the proper temperature add 7 drops of rennet to each gallon of milk plus a squirt for good luck! -With the lid on the pot let stand until the entire mass is solid. This will take approximately 45 minutes to one hour) -cut the mass all the way through in a grid pattern (blocks should be approximately ½”) -slowly heat to 100 degrees (increase heat 2 degrees every 5 minutes) This will take approximately ½ hour. Turn the curds occasionally. The curds will shrink noticeably as you turn. The whey will increase in quantity as the curds shrink. -separate the curds and whey and place the curds in a bowl. Add salt (slightly over salting to taste-as much of the salt will be lost while draining. At this time you can also add garlic and/or herbs) -Pour the curds into a cheesecloth-lined colander, which is over a bowl or bucket to catch the whey. -Tie the cloth cross ways twice. And hand the bag of curds to drain for one hour (I often hang the bag above of my sink on a hook or with a wood spoon over a large pot or bucket). If you are making 5 gallons worth of cheese you will hang your cheese for 12-24 hours and this will be sufficient pressing. -for 1-4 pounds of cheese-after one-hour pour the drained curds into a bowl, break them up gently into walnut size pieces -place curds into a clean cheesecloth and place into a press. If you do not have a cheese press-you can place the cheese on a plate tie a bandana around the cheese and place between two plates. Place a heavy object/s-clean bricks, containers of water, cast iron pot etc. on top and press for 12-24 hours. -Eat and enjoy!! Place unused portion in the refrigerator for up to a week From rosemarygoddess at moonwiseherbs.com Thu Mar 2 13:04:24 2006 From: rosemarygoddess at moonwiseherbs.com (Linda Conroy) Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 11:04:24 -0700 Subject: [Cheese] list "etiquette" Message-ID: <200603021835.k22IYlVf005188@brew.hbd.org> Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2006 08:10:54 -0700 From: Dion Hollenbeck Subject: [Cheese] List Etiquette To: cheese at hbd.org Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20060302075959.01e5c750 at parrot.woodsprite.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed I would like to remind the members of this list of a point of list etiquette that applies to *every* list you can join over the internet. Hi Dion, Thanks for the reminder. It seems patient in that you were willing to explain what needs to happen. I do want to remind you that some people like myself are new to this list thing. All I need is a reminder and some support. Also not all lists seem to be set up this way-not sure how to set one up that does not send all of the messages, but I have been a part of lists that don't seem to do that. Wonder if that is a possibility to check into? And please know that I for one am not doing this to be impolite-I am in a learning process. happy cheesemaking Linda From erica.schechter at gmail.com Thu Mar 2 15:34:40 2006 From: erica.schechter at gmail.com (Erica Schechter) Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 15:34:40 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] List Etiquette In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.2.20060302075959.01e5c750@parrot.woodsprite.com> References: <6.2.3.4.2.20060302075959.01e5c750@parrot.woodsprite.com> Message-ID: <9d3206c0603021234j7f99d71cvf6d447028e600199@mail.gmail.com> On 3/2/06, Dion Hollenbeck wrote: > > When you reply to a post, please take the time to edit the original > post and only leave enough of the original post to establish a > context for your reply. > > Especially if you are in digest mode, DO NOT copy the whole digest > back to the list only to add a couple of lines of comments at the > top. We have all seen all the posts already and do not need to see > the whole digest once again. I'm always reminded of this: A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet? From arf at mc.net Thu Mar 2 15:49:22 2006 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2006 14:49:22 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] list "etiquette" In-Reply-To: <200603021835.k22IYlVf005188@brew.hbd.org> References: <200603021835.k22IYlVf005188@brew.hbd.org> Message-ID: <44075A52.8060808@mc.net> Linda Conroy wrote: >Also not all lists seem to be set up this > way-not sure how to set one up that does not send all of the > messages... Not sure I understand the problem but first of all, there are two versions of this list. You can receive individual emails for every message or a once a day digest of all the messages. Dion's comments on editing out irrelevant garbage apply to any message responding to another message, i.e. using the reply button. It is particularly important when responding to a digest message because the entire digest is included when you use the reply button on your mail client. Whatever you do not delete will be included in your response and this can be mountains on some busy lists. So, just highlight the rest and delete it before hitting that send button. Note in this message that all that I left of the original was the sender and part of the only sentence relevant to my comments. You can select the way you receive the list by checking a box at ... http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From elf2 at losch.net Thu Mar 2 16:17:26 2006 From: elf2 at losch.net (cheri linkchorst) Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2006 16:17:26 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] Farmer cheese etc. Message-ID: <440760E6.9030905@losch.net> Linda, thank you so much for the recipes. I can't wait to try them. Right now I have 2 milking nubians and have a dexter cow coming next week who is due to calve in april. The recipes will surely be used. Cheri From dsnyder at swlaw.edu Thu Mar 2 17:03:18 2006 From: dsnyder at swlaw.edu (Doug Snyder) Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 14:03:18 -0800 Subject: [Cheese] list "etiquette" In-Reply-To: <44075A52.8060808@mc.net> References: <200603021835.k22IYlVf005188@brew.hbd.org> <44075A52.8060808@mc.net> Message-ID: <752A3824-8E2A-4F9A-8890-91521545A782@swlaw.edu> And a tip, most email client programs allow you to select a certain part of the message you're going to reply to and it will include only that part of the original message. Most often easier than having to remove everything from the reply. For example I highlighted the following two lines from Jack's email before hitting the "Reply" button and it only copied those two lines here in my reply. Doug On Mar 2, 2006, at 12:49 PM, Jack Schmidling wrote: > Note in this message that all that I left of the original was the > sender > and part of the only sentence relevant to my comments. From arf at mc.net Thu Mar 2 23:15:50 2006 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2006 22:15:50 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] list "etiquette" In-Reply-To: <752A3824-8E2A-4F9A-8890-91521545A782@swlaw.edu> References: <200603021835.k22IYlVf005188@brew.hbd.org> <44075A52.8060808@mc.net> <752A3824-8E2A-4F9A-8890-91521545A782@swlaw.edu> Message-ID: <4407C2F6.5070404@mc.net> Doug Snyder wrote: > For example I highlighted the following two lines from Jack's email > before hitting the "Reply" button and it only copied those two lines > here in my reply. That's cool but it does not seem to work with Thunderbird so I presume you are using outlook? js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From hollen at woodsprite.com Fri Mar 3 10:12:53 2006 From: hollen at woodsprite.com (Dion Hollenbeck) Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2006 08:12:53 -0700 Subject: [Cheese] list "etiquette" In-Reply-To: <4407C2F6.5070404@mc.net> References: <200603021835.k22IYlVf005188@brew.hbd.org> <44075A52.8060808@mc.net> <752A3824-8E2A-4F9A-8890-91521545A782@swlaw.edu> <4407C2F6.5070404@mc.net> Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20060303081215.01e7a020@parrot.woodsprite.com> At 09:15 PM 3/2/2006, Jack Schmidling wrote: >Doug Snyder wrote: > > > For example I highlighted the following two lines from Jack's email > > before hitting the "Reply" button and it only copied those two lines > > here in my reply. > >That's cool but it does not seem to work with Thunderbird so I presume >you are using outlook? Works in Eudora as well. dion From dsnyder at swlaw.edu Fri Mar 3 12:56:45 2006 From: dsnyder at swlaw.edu (Doug Snyder) Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 09:56:45 -0800 Subject: [Cheese] list "etiquette" In-Reply-To: <4407C2F6.5070404@mc.net> References: <200603021835.k22IYlVf005188@brew.hbd.org> <44075A52.8060808@mc.net> <752A3824-8E2A-4F9A-8890-91521545A782@swlaw.edu> <4407C2F6.5070404@mc.net> Message-ID: <2B72D292-65F9-4E5C-9A2F-DB28503CD2C5@swlaw.edu> I use Apple Mail, Thunderbird and Eudora depending on what computer I'm using. But it appears you are correct about Thunderbird. You can turn off quoting (Account Settings>Composition & Addressing) but you can't make it quote only the selected parts. I think I'll go to the Mozilla page and make that request. Doug On Mar 2, 2006, at 8:15 PM, Jack Schmidling wrote: > Doug Snyder wrote: > >> For example I highlighted the following two lines from Jack's email >> before hitting the "Reply" button and it only copied those two lines >> here in my reply. > > That's cool but it does not seem to work with Thunderbird so I presume > you are using outlook? > > js From arf at mc.net Fri Mar 3 18:46:47 2006 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2006 17:46:47 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] list "etiquette" In-Reply-To: <2B72D292-65F9-4E5C-9A2F-DB28503CD2C5@swlaw.edu> References: <200603021835.k22IYlVf005188@brew.hbd.org> <44075A52.8060808@mc.net> <752A3824-8E2A-4F9A-8890-91521545A782@swlaw.edu> <4407C2F6.5070404@mc.net> <2B72D292-65F9-4E5C-9A2F-DB28503CD2C5@swlaw.edu> Message-ID: <4408D567.9010506@mc.net> Doug Snyder wrote: > I think I'll go to > the Mozilla page and make that request. I hope that is not like writing to your congressperson. However, it will take a lot more than that to make me go back to outlook. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From jiladeh at ameritech.net Fri Mar 3 19:48:09 2006 From: jiladeh at ameritech.net (Dehaven James W) Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 16:48:09 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Cheese] list "etiquette" In-Reply-To: <4408D567.9010506@mc.net> Message-ID: <20060304004809.14904.qmail@web80405.mail.yahoo.com> anyone want to discuss cheese? Jack Schmidling wrote: Doug Snyder wrote: > I think I'll go to > the Mozilla page and make that request. I hope that is not like writing to your congressperson. However, it will take a lot more than that to make me go back to outlook. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com _______________________________________________ Cheese mailing list Cheese at hbd.org http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20060303/10eaf417/attachment-0002.html From dsnyder at swlaw.edu Fri Mar 3 20:10:40 2006 From: dsnyder at swlaw.edu (Doug Snyder) Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 17:10:40 -0800 Subject: [Cheese] list "etiquette" In-Reply-To: <20060304004809.14904.qmail@web80405.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20060304004809.14904.qmail@web80405.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4BC522A5-D613-4703-B2EF-6613109D734B@swlaw.edu> Outlook is a pretty cheesy email program ;-) Doug On Mar 3, 2006, at 4:48 PM, Dehaven James W wrote: > anyone want to discuss cheese? > From edenman at gmail.com Sat Mar 4 11:43:45 2006 From: edenman at gmail.com (Eric Denman) Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 11:43:45 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] list "etiquette" Message-ID: <9c71ba430603040843g2435d6d3h4fe17d4b8f685015@mail.gmail.com> outlook is like swiss: lots of holes in it. seriously though, i finally got my fridge regulator so i can age at the correct temperatures. very much looking forward to removing the temperature effect from the possible reasons why my cheeses always come out funky and feta-like. Also, I recently picked up a small block of "porter" cheese at whole foods. it didn't have a whole lot of details, but seemed to be some sort of heterogenous mix of porter beer and regular cheese. Google turned up this: http://www.holiday-market.com/cheese/cheese-wine/cheese-wine175.html does anyone have any more information on how the beer is solidified? It didn't taste terribly sweet, so i doubt it was simply boiled down to a thick concentrate. any theories? it was pretty tasty, and I'm about to go pick up another block to give it a second tasting (the first one disappeared a little too quickly from my fridge) Eric > Outlook is a pretty cheesy email program ;-) > > Doug > > On Mar 3, 2006, at 4:48 PM, Dehaven James W wrote: > > > anyone want to discuss cheese? > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20060304/c875ac46/attachment-0002.html From bbrockett3 at juno.com Tue Mar 7 10:04:53 2006 From: bbrockett3 at juno.com (Bruce Brockett) Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2006 10:04:53 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] freezing Whey Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.1.20060307100232.0194c108@pop.juno.com> I would like to freeze the whey and save it to make whey cheese at a later time. Anyone tried this? Thanks. Bruce From rosemarygoddess at moonwiseherbs.com Tue Mar 7 12:48:52 2006 From: rosemarygoddess at moonwiseherbs.com (Linda Conroy) Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 10:48:52 -0700 Subject: [Cheese] freezing whey Message-ID: <200603071823.k27IN0VO025348@brew.hbd.org> I would like to freeze the whey and save it to make whey cheese at a later > time. Anyone tried this? Thanks. > > Bruce Response: I have not frozen it to make cheese, but for ricotta everything I have read tells you to make it within 3 hours of making cheese. I am not sure if something changes about that last protein that you would be coagulating or not. Let us know if you try it. I have frozen it to use for cooking or as a a base for soap making and it has been fine for those purposes. Happy cheese making Linda www.moonwiseherbs.com. > From mavityre at comcast.net Fri Mar 10 20:29:31 2006 From: mavityre at comcast.net (Brian) Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:29:31 -0800 Subject: [Cheese] Cheese test References: <030120061616.24318.4405C8C10004BB7500005EFE22058863609C9D0A9B0A9F0B07900EBB@comcast.net> <440607DC.6090501@mc.net> Message-ID: <001a01c644ab$3f58fa10$0301a8c0@YOURWX88VYRXO> Howdy folks. > Back on Jan 17th I made what I thought would be a "Dubliner" wannabe. > Well, it ain't Dubliner. > Here is the recipe: > > > DUBLINER WANNABE 1/17/06 > > 2 gallons low fat milk > > ? gallon of "Milkman" low fat milk = 3 qts > > ? tsp. Mesophilic starter A > > 1 1/8 tsp. Liquid rennet diluted in ? cup cool non chlorinated water > > ? tsp. Calcium chloride > > 1.. Heat the milk to 86F, add starter and calcium chloride. Cover and let > ripen for 45 minutes. > 2.. Heat up to 90F, add rennet, stirring in an up and down motion for 1 > minute, let set for 45 minutes. > 3.. Cut the curds into ? inch cubes. > 4.. Put curd pot in a sink full of 116F water. Stir a little and keep the > pot in the sink for 50 minutes. > 5.. Drain off whey using a ladle and pour curds into a cheesecloth lined > colander. Place colander in a large bowl and cover for 15 minutes. > 6.. Place curds on cheese board and cut into 3 inch slabs. > 7.. Place slabs in pot sitting in a sink full of 100F water, cover and > rotate curds every 15 minnutes for 1 hour. Drain whey as you rotate. > 8.. Mill to ? inch pieces, rotate in pot every 10 minutes and drain whey. > 9.. Mill smaller if possible, drain and set 10 minutes. > 10.. Drain again and add 3 tbls. Salt. Mix with your hands. Put into a > cheesecloth lined mold and press at 20 lbs for 15 minutes. > 11.. Remove cheese, flip and re-dress and press at 40 lbs for 12 hours, > then 24 hours at 50 lbs. > Note: Seems crumbly. Too much draining? > > I cut a small wedge out tonight and although it started to taste like a > mild cheddar, it had a sour, almost sour cream taste in the end. > > I will probably use this for some cheese sauces etc.. Not good by itself > at this point. > > Any thoughts???? > > > > Brian From arf at mc.net Sat Mar 11 00:30:06 2006 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 23:30:06 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] Cheese test In-Reply-To: <001a01c644ab$3f58fa10$0301a8c0@YOURWX88VYRXO> References: <030120061616.24318.4405C8C10004BB7500005EFE22058863609C9D0A9B0A9F0B07900EBB@comcast.net> <440607DC.6090501@mc.net> <001a01c644ab$3f58fa10$0301a8c0@YOURWX88VYRXO> Message-ID: <4412605E.2010503@mc.net> Brian wrote: >>Back on Jan 17th I made what I thought would be a "Dubliner" wannabe. >>Well, it ain't Dubliner. >>Here is the recipe: >> >> >>DUBLINER WANNABE 1/17/06 >> >>2 gallons low fat milk Is this a test or a question? My question is why did you use low fat milk? My limited experience with it and your recipe would indicate that you got what one would expect with low fat milk. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From cherylswift520 at yahoo.co.uk Mon Mar 13 07:10:58 2006 From: cherylswift520 at yahoo.co.uk (Cheryl Swift) Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 12:10:58 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Cheese] SUBSCRIPTION Message-ID: <20060313121058.16551.qmail@web25222.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> thank you ___________________________________________________________ NEW Yahoo! Cars - sell your car and browse thousands of new and used cars online! http://uk.cars.yahoo.com/ From mavityre at comcast.net Thu Mar 16 19:50:44 2006 From: mavityre at comcast.net (Brian) Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 16:50:44 -0800 Subject: [Cheese] testing References: <876869876074.876074876869@NebrWesleyan.edu> <4404BBD4.40603@mc.net> <4404F88F.8060300@mc.net> Message-ID: <000701c6495c$d31622e0$0301a8c0@YOURWX88VYRXO> Testing. Been having troubles with emails bouncing back. From fiveleafclover at gmail.com Thu Mar 16 20:10:37 2006 From: fiveleafclover at gmail.com (Amos Herrera) Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 20:10:37 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] Wine & Crackers Message-ID: <60155f7e0603161710i6dd8bb7dw54079c4b28c9b26a@mail.gmail.com> Nope, it bounced like a ball of playdough hitting a wall of spikes. On 3/16/06, Brian wrote: > > Testing. > Been having troubles with emails bouncing back. > > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20060316/896dd3aa/attachment-0002.html From hogbrew at mtaonline.net Thu Mar 16 23:42:26 2006 From: hogbrew at mtaonline.net (John & Joy Vaughn) Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 19:42:26 -0900 Subject: [Cheese] Wine & Crackers In-Reply-To: <60155f7e0603161710i6dd8bb7dw54079c4b28c9b26a@mail.gmail.com> References: <60155f7e0603161710i6dd8bb7dw54079c4b28c9b26a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <441A3E32.3080503@mtaonline.net> No it didn't bounce. The original message and this one came through. Amos Herrera wrote: > Nope, it bounced like a ball of playdough hitting a wall of spikes. > > > > On 3/16/06, *Brian* > > wrote: > > Testing. > Been having troubles with emails bouncing back. > > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese From mavityre at comcast.net Tue Mar 21 17:38:02 2006 From: mavityre at comcast.net (Brian) Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 14:38:02 -0800 Subject: [Cheese] Cracks? References: <876869876074.876074876869@NebrWesleyan.edu> <4404BBD4.40603@mc.net> <4404F88F.8060300@mc.net> Message-ID: <001401c64d38$1d5d7810$0301a8c0@YOURWX88VYRXO> Damn, My Stilton loks great but it has a crack in the top. Is this normal? Thanks Brian From cherylswift520 at yahoo.co.uk Tue Mar 21 22:21:28 2006 From: cherylswift520 at yahoo.co.uk (Cheryl Swift) Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 03:21:28 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Cheese] Cracks? In-Reply-To: <001401c64d38$1d5d7810$0301a8c0@YOURWX88VYRXO> Message-ID: <20060322032128.70282.qmail@web25221.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Hi Brian I'm not sure why your emails are coming through to me. I requested to be added to the newsletter so I can't help you with your problem as I haven't even started making my own cheese. Just interested at this stage. Sorry to hear about the crack but it's the taste that matters isn't it! Good luck Bests CHERYL --- Brian wrote: > Damn, > My Stilton loks great but it has a crack in the top. > Is this normal? > > Thanks > > Brian > > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com From erica.cooksey at gmail.com Fri Mar 24 11:37:48 2006 From: erica.cooksey at gmail.com (Erica Cooksey) Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 11:37:48 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] Flavored Monterey Jack Message-ID: Hi all, First of all, this is the same Erica who has been posting here...I just got married so my last name is different. Tonight I want to try something different and make my first flavored cheese. I plan to make a Monterey Jack with chipotles, garlic, and fire-roasted jalapenos. Before I roll up my sleeves, does anyone have any advice regarding the use of auxiliary ingredients in cheese? Any experience with hot peppers and/or garlic? Thanks! --Erica -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20060324/231ce7e6/attachment-0002.html From mavityre at comcast.net Fri Mar 24 18:49:07 2006 From: mavityre at comcast.net (Brian) Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 15:49:07 -0800 Subject: [Cheese] Flavored Monterey Jack References: Message-ID: <001001c64f9d$8a4475c0$0301a8c0@YOURWX88VYRXO> Hi Erica, Congratulations on your marriage. >From what I understand, anything that grows in the ground has the possibility of Ecoli coming into play. From what I hear, it is best to saute the items first before adding to kill any unwanted bacteria. Good luck! I'm making another cheddar tonight, Jack's recipe with the RIGHT starter this time. LOL Brian ----- Original Message ----- From: Erica Cooksey To: cheese at hbd.org Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 8:37 AM Subject: [Cheese] Flavored Monterey Jack Hi all, First of all, this is the same Erica who has been posting here...I just got married so my last name is different. Tonight I want to try something different and make my first flavored cheese. I plan to make a Monterey Jack with chipotles, garlic, and fire-roasted jalapenos. Before I roll up my sleeves, does anyone have any advice regarding the use of auxiliary ingredients in cheese? Any experience with hot peppers and/or garlic? Thanks! --Erica ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Cheese mailing list Cheese at hbd.org http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20060324/8b8c7e03/attachment-0002.html From bluefeatherj at comcast.net Sat Mar 25 08:20:32 2006 From: bluefeatherj at comcast.net (bluefeatherj@comcast.net) Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 13:20:32 +0000 Subject: [Cheese] not much luck Message-ID: <032520061320.23409.442543A00003140700005B712206999735069D0A089B0E0A000A9A040D@comcast.net> Hi , I haven' t got as far as cottage cheese yet; both of the two batches i've made had a distinct rotten taste and had to be thrown out. I remember my mother making cottage cheese back in the mountains of tennissee . She would place the curds in small cloth sacks and hang them to drain from the back porch rafters. of course she had the freshest raw milk to work with. I used 1% skim milk, I read in a cheese book that ultra pasteurized milk is no good, but all the so called organic milk was ultra pasteurized, so i bought the regular pasteurized homogenized stuff, which i suspect is full of hormones and antibotics. anyway, i'm afraid my cheese making is off to a poor start. any suggestions? Anyone? jeri -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20060325/4887ed67/attachment-0002.html From arf at mc.net Sat Mar 25 10:01:50 2006 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 09:01:50 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] not much luck In-Reply-To: <032520061320.23409.442543A00003140700005B712206999735069D0A089B0E0A000A9A040D@comcast.net> References: <032520061320.23409.442543A00003140700005B712206999735069D0A089B0E0A000A9A040D@comcast.net> Message-ID: <44255B5E.3030308@mc.net> bluefeatherj at comcast.net wrote: > Hi , I haven' t got as far as cottage cheese yet; both of the two > batches i've made had a distinct rotten taste and had to be thrown > out.......... I used 1% skim milk... If that is all you used, it is not surprising that it has a rotten taste. We need more info to help you. What else did you put in there and how did you process it? Most importantly, what did you use for a starter? js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From hollen at woodsprite.com Sat Mar 25 11:27:16 2006 From: hollen at woodsprite.com (Dion Hollenbeck) Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 09:27:16 -0700 Subject: [Cheese] Flavored Monterey Jack In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20060325092426.01f14328@parrot.woodsprite.com> At 09:37 AM 3/24/2006, Erica Cooksey wrote: >Before I roll up my sleeves, does anyone have any advice regarding >the use of auxiliary ingredients in cheese? Any experience with hot >peppers and/or garlic? When I make soft goat's cheese, I separate the result of 1 gallon of milk into 4 quarters after it is completely drained. One I leave plain. The other three, I mix with various herbs. One of the mixtures is dried onion and garlic powder. I merely mix the herbs right into the cheese. Each of the three herbed batches get a little salt also, but the plain is left completely plain. dion From rosemarygoddess at moonwiseherbs.com Sat Mar 25 13:26:43 2006 From: rosemarygoddess at moonwiseherbs.com (Linda Conroy) Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 11:26:43 -0700 Subject: [Cheese] garlic and herbs in cheese Message-ID: <200603251831.k2PIVFfe016865@brew.hbd.org> re: garlic and peppers in cheese-the hot peppers should not be of concern in the cheese, particularly if you harvest them yourself. What I do is harvest the top peppers and same with herbs-not harvesting anything that has touched the ground. Ecoli spores live in soil, so I agree that fresh raw garlic is probably not the best idea particularly if you are using pasteurized milk. Although one experiment I read about they placeed ecoli spores in a stelized vat with pasteurized milk and another in a barell of raw milk and the spores grew like crazy in the pasteurized milk (no competiters) and died off in the raw milk. I put fresh rosemary, thyme, sage and other herbs in my cheese all the time and never have a problem. I do use raw milk. happy cheese making Linda www.moonwiseherbs.com From rosemarygoddess at moonwiseherbs.com Sat Mar 25 13:34:14 2006 From: rosemarygoddess at moonwiseherbs.com (Linda Conroy) Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 11:34:14 -0700 Subject: [Cheese] cottage cheese and milk choices Message-ID: <200603251839.k2PIcgH2017090@brew.hbd.org> re: cottage cheese and milk choices> Greetings. I am not sure where you live but you may be able to find farm fresh milk-look on the website realmilk.com to see if there is a farmer near you offering raw milk. Also I do know that Organic Valley gallon size of milk is low heat pasteurized. Some of their 1/2 gallons are ultra pasteurized, so if you have access to that brand, you could purchase the gallon size. I called them because it did not say on the gallons what type of pasteurization they were using and they told me they have different plants and that all of their gallons are low heat pasteurized. I personally only use 1-2% for making Italian hard cheese i.e. Romano, Parmesan etc. I use whole milk for all my other cheeses-much better consistency and flavor! Hope that is helpful. Happy Cheese Making Linda www.moonwiseherbs.com Send Cheese mailing list submissions to > cheese at hbd.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > cheese-request at hbd.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > cheese-owner at hbd.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Cheese digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Flavored Monterey Jack (Erica Cooksey) > 2. Re: Flavored Monterey Jack (Brian) > 3. not much luck (bluefeatherj at comcast.net) > 4. Re: not much luck (Jack Schmidling) > 5. Re: Flavored Monterey Jack (Dion Hollenbeck) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 11:37:48 -0500 > From: "Erica Cooksey" > Subject: [Cheese] Flavored Monterey Jack > To: cheese at hbd.org > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Hi all, > > First of all, this is the same Erica who has been posting here...I just got > married so my last name is different. > > Tonight I want to try something different and make my first flavored cheese. > I plan to make a Monterey Jack with chipotles, garlic, and fire-roasted > jalapenos. > > Before I roll up my sleeves, does anyone have any advice regarding the use > of auxiliary ingredients in cheese? Any experience with hot peppers and/or > garlic? > > Thanks! > --Erica > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20060324/231ce7e6/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 15:49:07 -0800 > From: "Brian" > Subject: Re: [Cheese] Flavored Monterey Jack > To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" > Message-ID: <001001c64f9d$8a4475c0$0301a8c0 at YOURWX88VYRXO> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Hi Erica, > Congratulations on your marriage. > >From what I understand, anything that grows in the ground has the possibility of Ecoli coming into play. From what I hear, it is best to saute the items first before adding to kill any unwanted bacteria. > > Good luck! > I'm making another cheddar tonight, Jack's recipe with the RIGHT starter this time. LOL > > Brian > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Erica Cooksey > To: cheese at hbd.org > Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 8:37 AM > Subject: [Cheese] Flavored Monterey Jack > > > Hi all, > > First of all, this is the same Erica who has been posting here...I just got married so my last name is different. > > Tonight I want to try something different and make my first flavored cheese. I plan to make a Monterey Jack with chipotles, garlic, and fire-roasted jalapenos. > > Before I roll up my sleeves, does anyone have any advice regarding the use of auxiliary ingredients in cheese? Any experience with hot peppers and/or garlic? > > Thanks! > --Erica > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20060324/8b8c7e03/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 13:20:32 +0000 > From: bluefeatherj at comcast.net > Subject: [Cheese] not much luck > To: Cheese at hbd.org > Message-ID: > <032520061320.23409.442543A00003140700005B712206999735069D0A089B0E0A000A9A040D at comcast.net> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Hi , I haven' t got as far as cottage cheese yet; > both of the two batches i've made had a distinct rotten taste and had to be thrown out. > I remember my mother making cottage cheese back in the mountains of tennissee . > She would place the curds in small cloth sacks and hang them to drain from the back porch rafters. of course she had the freshest raw milk to work with. > I used 1% skim milk, I read in a cheese book that ultra pasteurized milk is no good, but all the so called organic milk was ultra pasteurized, so i bought the regular pasteurized homogenized stuff, which i suspect is full of hormones and antibotics. > anyway, i'm afraid my cheese making is off to a poor start. any suggestions? Anyone? > jeri > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20060325/4887ed67/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 09:01:50 -0600 > From: Jack Schmidling > Subject: Re: [Cheese] not much luck > To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" > Message-ID: <44255B5E.3030308 at mc.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > bluefeatherj at comcast.net wrote: > > Hi , I haven' t got as far as cottage cheese yet; both of the two > > batches i've made had a distinct rotten taste and had to be thrown > > out.......... I used 1% skim milk... > > If that is all you used, it is not surprising that it has a rotten taste. > > We need more info to help you. What else did you put in there and how > did you process it? Most importantly, what did you use for a starter? > > js > > > > -- > PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm > Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 09:27:16 -0700 > From: Dion Hollenbeck > Subject: Re: [Cheese] Flavored Monterey Jack > To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" , cheese at hbd.org > Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20060325092426.01f14328 at parrot.woodsprite.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed > > At 09:37 AM 3/24/2006, Erica Cooksey wrote: > >Before I roll up my sleeves, does anyone have any advice regarding > >the use of auxiliary ingredients in cheese? Any experience with hot > >peppers and/or garlic? > > When I make soft goat's cheese, I separate the result of 1 gallon of > milk into 4 quarters after it is completely drained. One I leave > plain. The other three, I mix with various herbs. One of the > mixtures is dried onion and garlic powder. I merely mix the herbs > right into the cheese. Each of the three herbed batches get a little > salt also, but the plain is left completely plain. > > dion > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > > > End of Cheese Digest, Vol 7, Issue 13 > ************************************* From bluefeatherj at comcast.net Sat Mar 25 16:33:36 2006 From: bluefeatherj at comcast.net (jeri) Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 16:33:36 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] cottage cheese and milk choices References: <200603251839.k2PIcgH2017090@brew.hbd.org> Message-ID: <000501c65053$c691a820$75f7f145@jeri> Hi, thank you for your input; i live in southern mich . i will definately check out the web site you suggested. jeri ----- Original Message ----- From: "Linda Conroy" To: Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 1:34 PM Subject: Re: [Cheese] cottage cheese and milk choices > re: cottage cheese and milk choices> > > Greetings. I am not sure where you live but you may be able to find farm > fresh milk-look on the website realmilk.com to see if there is a farmer > near you offering raw milk. > > Also I do know that Organic Valley gallon size of milk is low heat > pasteurized. Some of their 1/2 gallons are ultra pasteurized, so if you > have access to that brand, you could purchase the gallon size. I called > them because it did not say on the gallons what type of pasteurization > they were using and they told me they have different plants and that all > of their gallons are low heat pasteurized. I personally only use 1-2% for > making Italian hard cheese i.e. Romano, Parmesan etc. I use whole milk for > all my other cheeses-much better consistency and flavor! > Hope that is helpful. > Happy Cheese Making > Linda > www.moonwiseherbs.com > > > > > Send Cheese mailing list submissions to >> cheese at hbd.org >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> cheese-request at hbd.org >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> cheese-owner at hbd.org >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of Cheese digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Flavored Monterey Jack (Erica Cooksey) >> 2. Re: Flavored Monterey Jack (Brian) >> 3. not much luck (bluefeatherj at comcast.net) >> 4. Re: not much luck (Jack Schmidling) >> 5. Re: Flavored Monterey Jack (Dion Hollenbeck) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 11:37:48 -0500 >> From: "Erica Cooksey" >> Subject: [Cheese] Flavored Monterey Jack >> To: cheese at hbd.org >> Message-ID: >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >> >> Hi all, >> >> First of all, this is the same Erica who has been posting here...I just >> got >> married so my last name is different. >> >> Tonight I want to try something different and make my first flavored >> cheese. >> I plan to make a Monterey Jack with chipotles, garlic, and fire-roasted >> jalapenos. >> >> Before I roll up my sleeves, does anyone have any advice regarding the >> use >> of auxiliary ingredients in cheese? Any experience with hot peppers >> and/or >> garlic? >> >> Thanks! >> --Erica >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20060324/231ce7e6/attachment-0001.html >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 15:49:07 -0800 >> From: "Brian" >> Subject: Re: [Cheese] Flavored Monterey Jack >> To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" >> Message-ID: <001001c64f9d$8a4475c0$0301a8c0 at YOURWX88VYRXO> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >> >> Hi Erica, >> Congratulations on your marriage. >> >From what I understand, anything that grows in the ground has the >> >possibility of Ecoli coming into play. From what I hear, it is best to >> >saute the items first before adding to kill any unwanted bacteria. >> >> Good luck! >> I'm making another cheddar tonight, Jack's recipe with the RIGHT starter >> this time. LOL >> >> Brian >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Erica Cooksey >> To: cheese at hbd.org >> Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 8:37 AM >> Subject: [Cheese] Flavored Monterey Jack >> >> >> Hi all, >> >> First of all, this is the same Erica who has been posting here...I just >> got married so my last name is different. >> >> Tonight I want to try something different and make my first flavored >> cheese. I plan to make a Monterey Jack with chipotles, garlic, and >> fire-roasted jalapenos. >> >> Before I roll up my sleeves, does anyone have any advice regarding the >> use of auxiliary ingredients in cheese? Any experience with hot peppers >> and/or garlic? >> >> Thanks! >> --Erica >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Cheese mailing list >> Cheese at hbd.org >> http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20060324/8b8c7e03/attachment-0001.html >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 3 >> Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 13:20:32 +0000 >> From: bluefeatherj at comcast.net >> Subject: [Cheese] not much luck >> To: Cheese at hbd.org >> Message-ID: >> <032520061320.23409.442543A00003140700005B712206999735069D0A089B0E0A000A9A040D at comcast.net> >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> Hi , I haven' t got as far as cottage cheese yet; >> both of the two batches i've made had a distinct rotten taste and had to >> be thrown out. >> I remember my mother making cottage cheese back in the mountains of >> tennissee . >> She would place the curds in small cloth sacks and hang them to drain >> from the back porch rafters. of course she had the freshest raw milk to >> work with. >> I used 1% skim milk, I read in a cheese book that ultra pasteurized milk >> is no good, but all the so called organic milk was ultra pasteurized, so >> i bought the regular pasteurized homogenized stuff, which i suspect is >> full of hormones and antibotics. >> anyway, i'm afraid my cheese making is off to a poor start. any >> suggestions? Anyone? >> jeri >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20060325/4887ed67/attachment-0001.html >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 4 >> Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 09:01:50 -0600 >> From: Jack Schmidling >> Subject: Re: [Cheese] not much luck >> To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" >> Message-ID: <44255B5E.3030308 at mc.net> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >> >> bluefeatherj at comcast.net wrote: >> > Hi , I haven' t got as far as cottage cheese yet; both of the two >> > batches i've made had a distinct rotten taste and had to be thrown >> > out.......... I used 1% skim milk... >> >> If that is all you used, it is not surprising that it has a rotten taste. >> >> We need more info to help you. What else did you put in there and how >> did you process it? Most importantly, what did you use for a starter? >> >> js >> >> >> >> -- >> PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm >> Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 5 >> Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 09:27:16 -0700 >> From: Dion Hollenbeck >> Subject: Re: [Cheese] Flavored Monterey Jack >> To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" , cheese at hbd.org >> Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20060325092426.01f14328 at parrot.woodsprite.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed >> >> At 09:37 AM 3/24/2006, Erica Cooksey wrote: >> >Before I roll up my sleeves, does anyone have any advice regarding >> >the use of auxiliary ingredients in cheese? Any experience with hot >> >peppers and/or garlic? >> >> When I make soft goat's cheese, I separate the result of 1 gallon of >> milk into 4 quarters after it is completely drained. One I leave >> plain. The other three, I mix with various herbs. One of the >> mixtures is dried onion and garlic powder. I merely mix the herbs >> right into the cheese. Each of the three herbed batches get a little >> salt also, but the plain is left completely plain. >> >> dion >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Cheese mailing list >> Cheese at hbd.org >> http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese >> >> >> End of Cheese Digest, Vol 7, Issue 13 >> ************************************* > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > From bluefeatherj at comcast.net Sat Mar 25 16:39:07 2006 From: bluefeatherj at comcast.net (jeri) Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 16:39:07 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] not much luck References: <032520061320.23409.442543A00003140700005B712206999735069D0A089B0E0A000A9A040D@comcast.net> <44255B5E.3030308@mc.net> Message-ID: <000901c65054$8b69cec0$75f7f145@jeri> Hi , thank you for answering . Below is the recipe i used (to the letter) the milk was bought the same day. except i used 1% instead of 2%. Jeri Ingredients: 1 gallon 2% milk 1/2 cup vinegar 1 tsp salt 1. Heat the milk to 190F. You will need a thermometer for other cheeses but you can get by here turning off the heat just before the milk begins to boil. 2. Add the vinegar and allow the mixture to cool. 3. When cool, pour the mixture, (which now consists of curds and whey as in Miss Muffet food) into a colander and drain off the whey. 4. Pour the curds into a bowl and sprinkle on the salt and mix well. You may wish to use less salt or more. It is simply a matter of taste which is the next step. You can add a little cream for a silky texture. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack Schmidling" To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 10:01 AM Subject: Re: [Cheese] not much luck > bluefeatherj at comcast.net wrote: >> Hi , I haven' t got as far as cottage cheese yet; both of the two >> batches i've made had a distinct rotten taste and had to be thrown >> out.......... I used 1% skim milk... > > If that is all you used, it is not surprising that it has a rotten taste. > > We need more info to help you. What else did you put in there and how > did you process it? Most importantly, what did you use for a starter? > > js > > > > -- > PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm > Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com > > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > From jiladeh at ameritech.net Sat Mar 25 17:53:12 2006 From: jiladeh at ameritech.net (Dehaven James W) Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 14:53:12 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Cheese] cottage cheese and milk choices In-Reply-To: <000501c65053$c691a820$75f7f145@jeri> Message-ID: <20060325225312.95751.qmail@web80403.mail.yahoo.com> I live in Kalamazoo; where do you live? jeri wrote: Hi, thank you for your input; i live in southern mich . i will definately check out the web site you suggested. jeri ----- Original Message ----- From: "Linda Conroy" To: Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 1:34 PM Subject: Re: [Cheese] cottage cheese and milk choices > re: cottage cheese and milk choices> > > Greetings. I am not sure where you live but you may be able to find farm > fresh milk-look on the website realmilk.com to see if there is a farmer > near you offering raw milk. > > Also I do know that Organic Valley gallon size of milk is low heat > pasteurized. Some of their 1/2 gallons are ultra pasteurized, so if you > have access to that brand, you could purchase the gallon size. I called > them because it did not say on the gallons what type of pasteurization > they were using and they told me they have different plants and that all > of their gallons are low heat pasteurized. I personally only use 1-2% for > making Italian hard cheese i.e. Romano, Parmesan etc. I use whole milk for > all my other cheeses-much better consistency and flavor! > Hope that is helpful. > Happy Cheese Making > Linda > www.moonwiseherbs.com > > > > > Send Cheese mailing list submissions to >> cheese at hbd.org >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> cheese-request at hbd.org >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> cheese-owner at hbd.org >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of Cheese digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Flavored Monterey Jack (Erica Cooksey) >> 2. Re: Flavored Monterey Jack (Brian) >> 3. not much luck (bluefeatherj at comcast.net) >> 4. Re: not much luck (Jack Schmidling) >> 5. Re: Flavored Monterey Jack (Dion Hollenbeck) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 11:37:48 -0500 >> From: "Erica Cooksey" >> Subject: [Cheese] Flavored Monterey Jack >> To: cheese at hbd.org >> Message-ID: >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >> >> Hi all, >> >> First of all, this is the same Erica who has been posting here...I just >> got >> married so my last name is different. >> >> Tonight I want to try something different and make my first flavored >> cheese. >> I plan to make a Monterey Jack with chipotles, garlic, and fire-roasted >> jalapenos. >> >> Before I roll up my sleeves, does anyone have any advice regarding the >> use >> of auxiliary ingredients in cheese? Any experience with hot peppers >> and/or >> garlic? >> >> Thanks! >> --Erica >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20060324/231ce7e6/attachment-0001.html >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 15:49:07 -0800 >> From: "Brian" >> Subject: Re: [Cheese] Flavored Monterey Jack >> To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" >> Message-ID: <001001c64f9d$8a4475c0$0301a8c0 at YOURWX88VYRXO> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >> >> Hi Erica, >> Congratulations on your marriage. >> >From what I understand, anything that grows in the ground has the >> >possibility of Ecoli coming into play. From what I hear, it is best to >> >saute the items first before adding to kill any unwanted bacteria. >> >> Good luck! >> I'm making another cheddar tonight, Jack's recipe with the RIGHT starter >> this time. LOL >> >> Brian >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Erica Cooksey >> To: cheese at hbd.org >> Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 8:37 AM >> Subject: [Cheese] Flavored Monterey Jack >> >> >> Hi all, >> >> First of all, this is the same Erica who has been posting here...I just >> got married so my last name is different. >> >> Tonight I want to try something different and make my first flavored >> cheese. I plan to make a Monterey Jack with chipotles, garlic, and >> fire-roasted jalapenos. >> >> Before I roll up my sleeves, does anyone have any advice regarding the >> use of auxiliary ingredients in cheese? Any experience with hot peppers >> and/or garlic? >> >> Thanks! >> --Erica >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Cheese mailing list >> Cheese at hbd.org >> http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20060324/8b8c7e03/attachment-0001.html >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 3 >> Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 13:20:32 +0000 >> From: bluefeatherj at comcast.net >> Subject: [Cheese] not much luck >> To: Cheese at hbd.org >> Message-ID: >> <032520061320.23409.442543A00003140700005B712206999735069D0A089B0E0A000A9A040D at comcast.net> >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> Hi , I haven' t got as far as cottage cheese yet; >> both of the two batches i've made had a distinct rotten taste and had to >> be thrown out. >> I remember my mother making cottage cheese back in the mountains of >> tennissee . >> She would place the curds in small cloth sacks and hang them to drain >> from the back porch rafters. of course she had the freshest raw milk to >> work with. >> I used 1% skim milk, I read in a cheese book that ultra pasteurized milk >> is no good, but all the so called organic milk was ultra pasteurized, so >> i bought the regular pasteurized homogenized stuff, which i suspect is >> full of hormones and antibotics. >> anyway, i'm afraid my cheese making is off to a poor start. any >> suggestions? Anyone? >> jeri >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20060325/4887ed67/attachment-0001.html >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 4 >> Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 09:01:50 -0600 >> From: Jack Schmidling >> Subject: Re: [Cheese] not much luck >> To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" >> Message-ID: <44255B5E.3030308 at mc.net> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >> >> bluefeatherj at comcast.net wrote: >> > Hi , I haven' t got as far as cottage cheese yet; both of the two >> > batches i've made had a distinct rotten taste and had to be thrown >> > out.......... I used 1% skim milk... >> >> If that is all you used, it is not surprising that it has a rotten taste. >> >> We need more info to help you. What else did you put in there and how >> did you process it? Most importantly, what did you use for a starter? >> >> js >> >> >> >> -- >> PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm >> Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 5 >> Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 09:27:16 -0700 >> From: Dion Hollenbeck >> Subject: Re: [Cheese] Flavored Monterey Jack >> To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" , cheese at hbd.org >> Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20060325092426.01f14328 at parrot.woodsprite.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed >> >> At 09:37 AM 3/24/2006, Erica Cooksey wrote: >> >Before I roll up my sleeves, does anyone have any advice regarding >> >the use of auxiliary ingredients in cheese? Any experience with hot >> >peppers and/or garlic? >> >> When I make soft goat's cheese, I separate the result of 1 gallon of >> milk into 4 quarters after it is completely drained. One I leave >> plain. The other three, I mix with various herbs. One of the >> mixtures is dried onion and garlic powder. I merely mix the herbs >> right into the cheese. Each of the three herbed batches get a little >> salt also, but the plain is left completely plain. >> >> dion >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Cheese mailing list >> Cheese at hbd.org >> http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese >> >> >> End of Cheese Digest, Vol 7, Issue 13 >> ************************************* > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > _______________________________________________ Cheese mailing list Cheese at hbd.org http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20060325/3e530d70/attachment-0002.html From erica.cooksey at gmail.com Tue Mar 28 09:20:39 2006 From: erica.cooksey at gmail.com (Erica Cooksey) Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 09:20:39 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] Salt Message-ID: Hi all, When you mix salt into the curds (as opposed to brining), how much salt do you generally use? The recipe I was using for Monterey Jack calls for 1 Tbs for a gallon of milk, but that seemed like wayyyy too much. I made my chipotle + fire-roasted jalapeno + roasted garlic jack...we'll see how it turns out :) --Erica -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20060328/a7abb03f/attachment-0002.html From hollen at woodsprite.com Tue Mar 28 11:11:00 2006 From: hollen at woodsprite.com (Dion Hollenbeck) Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 09:11:00 -0700 Subject: [Cheese] Salt In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20060328090926.01f786c0@parrot.woodsprite.com> At 07:20 AM 3/28/2006, Erica Cooksey wrote: >Hi all, > >When you mix salt into the curds (as opposed to brining), how much >salt do you generally use? The recipe I was using for Monterey Jack >calls for 1 Tbs for a gallon of milk, but that seemed like wayyyy too much. Not for my recipes, or for my tastes. When I make a gallon's worth and split it into 4 batches to herb differently, each quarter gets 1 tsp. salt. This is with goat's milk and using chevre starter from cheesemaking.com, if the recipe matters at all. dion From erica.cooksey at gmail.com Tue Mar 28 13:19:33 2006 From: erica.cooksey at gmail.com (Erica Cooksey) Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 13:19:33 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] Watery curds Message-ID: Hi all, Sorry for all the posts; if you can't tell, I'm mid-cheese! Anyway, I'm currently pressing a Monterey Jack with chipotles, fire-roasted jalapenos, and roasted garlic. I seem to have run into a potential issue: the curds are very watery. I've been pressing the cheese at 15 lbs for about 12 hours and it is still not solid enough for air drying. I used 1/2 tsp of rennet for a gallon of milk, so I don't think it's that. I bought the rennet in September, maybe it's too old? I have a could of theories, please let me know what you think. 1- The temperature of the curds cooled down a bit in the last 30 minutes of cooking. It was still over 90 but less than 100 2- I know that salt draws out moisture. This is the first cheese I've ever made (other than mozz) where the curds are directly salted rather than brined. Perhaps this is the norm? 3- There could be extra liquid from the peppers and garlic 4- Should I have hung the curds before pressing? In the recipe I am using (Ricki's), she says to put the curds in a cheesecloth-lined colander and "let drain". She did not specify a length of time or a desired texture, so I assumed that this step is just to get rid of excess whey. Did I interpret this wrong? In her recipe, she only presses the cheese at 4lbs for 12 hours. There is NO WAY that I would have a solid cheese in that time! I'm just going to keep pressing at 15 lbs til it holds together. I guess I'm just trying to understand if I've seriously screwed up my cheese or if this is normal. --Erica -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20060328/c23521ec/attachment-0002.html From arf at mc.net Tue Mar 28 16:14:07 2006 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 15:14:07 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] Salt In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4429A71F.405@mc.net> Erica Cooksey wrote: > Hi all, > > When you mix salt into the curds (as opposed to brining), how much salt do > you generally use? The recipe I was using for Monterey Jack calls for 1 Tbs > for a gallon of milk, but that seemed like wayyyy too much. Salt is not a flavor condiment with cheese, so what it tastes like has nothing to do with the cheese process. It's purpose is to halt or slow down the acidification by the bacteria. The proper way to determine the amount of salt is by weight. Weigh the curds and add 2.5% by weight of salt. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From arf at mc.net Tue Mar 28 16:29:15 2006 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 15:29:15 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] Watery curds In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4429AAAB.4030505@mc.net> Erica Cooksey wrote: > I used 1/2 tsp of rennet for a gallon of milk, so I don't think it's that. I > bought the rennet in September, maybe it's too old? I have a could of > theories, please let me know what you think. Did you forget to use or mention a starter? > 4- Should I have hung the curds before pressing? In the recipe I am using > (Ricki's), she says to put the curds in a cheesecloth-lined colander and > "let drain". She did not specify a length of time or a desired texture, so I > assumed that this step is just to get rid of excess whey. Did I interpret > this wrong? Your interpretation is correct but we don't know what you did about it. What was the texture of the curds when you started pressing? In general, if you drain them in a collandar, bag or just the kettle tipped over, till they stop dripping, you should have something you can pick up in your fingers and squeeze without any whey coming out or dripping on your fingers. Think soft rubber as opposed to cottage cheese. > In her recipe, she only presses the cheese at 4lbs for 12 hours. There is NO > WAY that I would have a solid cheese in that time! Well, I would guess you did not have a curd as I described. The purpose of pressing is consolidate the curds and encourage them to knit into a single mass, not to expel whey that should have been expelled before pressing. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From erica.cooksey at gmail.com Tue Mar 28 16:42:02 2006 From: erica.cooksey at gmail.com (Erica Cooksey) Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 16:42:02 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] Watery curds In-Reply-To: <4429AAAB.4030505@mc.net> References: <4429AAAB.4030505@mc.net> Message-ID: On 3/28/06, Jack Schmidling wrote: > > > Did you forget to use or mention a starter? I did use some mesophilic starter, I just didn't mention it :) > 4- Should I have hung the curds before pressing? In the recipe I am using > > (Ricki's), she says to put the curds in a cheesecloth-lined colander and > > "let drain". She did not specify a length of time or a desired texture, > so I > > assumed that this step is just to get rid of excess whey. Did I > interpret > > this wrong? > > Your interpretation is correct but we don't know what you did about it. > What was the texture of the curds when you started pressing? In > general, if you drain them in a collandar, bag or just the kettle tipped > over, till they stop dripping, you should have something you can pick up > in your fingers and squeeze without any whey coming out or dripping on > your fingers. Think soft rubber as opposed to cottage cheese. It was closer to soft rubber, it looked like very firm boiled egg whites. I think that the addition of cooked hot peppers after draining may have introduced excess moisture :-\ > > In her recipe, she only presses the cheese at 4lbs for 12 hours. There > is NO > > WAY that I would have a solid cheese in that time! > > Well, I would guess you did not have a curd as I described. > > The purpose of pressing is consolidate the curds and encourage them to > knit into a single mass, not to expel whey that should have been > expelled before pressing. Well, I guess I'll air dry it when I get home and see how it works out! Thanks! --Erica -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20060328/2f4408af/attachment-0002.html From arf at mc.net Tue Mar 28 23:17:11 2006 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 22:17:11 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] Watery curds In-Reply-To: References: <4429AAAB.4030505@mc.net> Message-ID: <442A0A47.2060801@mc.net> Erica Cooksey wrote: > It was closer to soft rubber, it looked like very firm boiled egg whites. I > think that the addition of cooked hot peppers after draining may have > introduced excess moisture Could be. I forgot what sort of cheese this is supposed to be but adding stuff like that to a hard cheese is probably asking for trouble. Doubly so at that stage. I would add it just before wheyoff. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From alhiem at gmail.com Thu Mar 30 11:00:46 2006 From: alhiem at gmail.com (Albert Ortiz) Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 12:00:46 -0400 Subject: [Cheese] raw milk In-Reply-To: <44051FAC.4020603@mc.net> References: <8909da890a0a.890a0a8909da@NebrWesleyan.edu> <1e5a81050602281816n628b88b8x9de77c4073c1717e@mail.gmail.com> <44051FAC.4020603@mc.net> Message-ID: <1e5a81050603300800i60dec2fdu76c8393d60d2be87@mail.gmail.com> I know, he does not in fact suggest that you may make cheese without a starter. Then again, fermented milk products can be made with just raw milk, just like you can make wine with just the grapes because, like grapes contain a trace amount of yeast, raw milk does contain a "sample" of the organisms requiered for it to ferment but they may not be enough. In anycase, it may be the case that i misunderstood the original inquiry. He does use raw goat's milk primarily, and makes his own starters from scratch with it too. He presents a syllabus where you can learn all kinds of stuff about milk and milk products. I found it quite enlightening even when i don't have raw milk readily available to me. Happy cheese making! Saludos, Alberto On 3/1/06, Jack Schmidling wrote: > > Albert Ortiz wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > This person is a biology doctor who has always made cheese with raw > milk. > > you can find his info at > > http://biology.clc.uc.edu/Fankhauser/Cheese/Cheese.html > > I don't see anywhere on his site where he suggests that a starter is not > required with raw milk. He uses buttermilk or yogurt as starters for > all the recipes I saw. > > js > > > -- > PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm > Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com > > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20060330/0772091a/attachment-0002.html From ssarge2 at owc.net Fri Mar 31 08:19:15 2006 From: ssarge2 at owc.net (ss2) Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 07:19:15 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] raw milk References: <8909da890a0a.890a0a8909da@NebrWesleyan.edu><1e5a81050602281816n628b88b8x9de77c4073c1717e@mail.gmail.com><44051FAC.4020603@mc.net> <1e5a81050603300800i60dec2fdu76c8393d60d2be87@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <001001c654c5$b6525f60$6600a8c0@Averatec> I've ordered a cheese kit which does include the rennet and misc other items. I'm looking forward to trying this. I do live near some dairy farmers and I'm hoping they will allow me to use a gallon or 2 of raw milk. The Illinois law prevents them from selling it. I have gotten mixed messages on whether or not to use whole store bought milk, 2% or fresh cows milk. I"m guessing that fresh is best, but when unable to obtain that - what is the next best choice? Everyone agrees that ultra pasteurized milk of any kind won't work. I'm going to compare store bought "fresh" mozzarella with what I'm hopefully able to make. Susie ----- Original Message ----- From: Albert Ortiz To: The Cheese Makers' Digest Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 10:00 AM Subject: Re: [Cheese] raw milk I know, he does not in fact suggest that you may make cheese without a starter. Then again, fermented milk products can be made with just raw milk, just like you can make wine with just the grapes because, like grapes contain a trace amount of yeast, raw milk does contain a "sample" of the organisms requiered for it to ferment but they may not be enough. In anycase, it may be the case that i misunderstood the original inquiry. He does use raw goat's milk primarily, and makes his own starters from scratch with it too. He presents a syllabus where you can learn all kinds of stuff about milk and milk products. I found it quite enlightening even when i don't have raw milk readily available to me. Happy cheese making! Saludos, Alberto On 3/1/06, Jack Schmidling wrote: Albert Ortiz wrote: > Hi all, > > This person is a biology doctor who has always made cheese with raw milk. > you can find his info at > http://biology.clc.uc.edu/Fankhauser/Cheese/Cheese.html I don't see anywhere on his site where he suggests that a starter is not required with raw milk. He uses buttermilk or yogurt as starters for all the recipes I saw. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com _______________________________________________ Cheese mailing list Cheese at hbd.org http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Cheese mailing list Cheese at hbd.org http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20060331/8f47a371/attachment-0002.html From jiladeh at ameritech.net Fri Mar 31 15:53:53 2006 From: jiladeh at ameritech.net (Dehaven James W) Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 12:53:53 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Cheese] temperatures for cultures Message-ID: <20060331205354.43061.qmail@web80405.mail.yahoo.com> What is the temperature break point on the two types of starters? It must be higher than 100 since meso can be used for cheddar. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20060331/c86b7604/attachment-0002.html From jiladeh at ameritech.net Fri Mar 31 18:12:07 2006 From: jiladeh at ameritech.net (Dehaven James W) Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 15:12:07 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Cheese] stirring Message-ID: <20060331231207.92894.qmail@web80410.mail.yahoo.com> Why does Rikki say to stir up and down instead of around? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20060331/9c86e2eb/attachment-0002.html From arf at mc.net Fri Mar 31 23:34:58 2006 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 22:34:58 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] stirring In-Reply-To: <20060331231207.92894.qmail@web80410.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20060331231207.92894.qmail@web80410.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <442E02F2.5020103@mc.net> Dehaven James W wrote: > Why does Rikki say to stir up and down instead of around? I think the idea is that if you just go round and round, you creat a whirlpool which might not mix very effectively. Stirring up and down is probably a poor choice of words. If you use a ladle for stirring, just pull up a scoop from the bottom now and then while stirring and you will do a pretty effective job. There is not much rennet in a whole kettle of milk so it is important to get it mixed well and quickly before it starts to set. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From arf at mc.net Fri Mar 31 23:48:47 2006 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 22:48:47 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] temperatures for cultures In-Reply-To: <20060331205354.43061.qmail@web80405.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20060331205354.43061.qmail@web80405.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <442E062F.60306@mc.net> Dehaven James W wrote: > What is the temperature break point on the two types of starters? It > must be higher than 100 since meso can be used for cheddar. Not sure what you mean by break point but the optimum temp for reproduction is what we want and that is around 110F for meso and about 125F for thermophylic. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com