From edenman at gmail.com Mon Sep 4 16:51:46 2006 From: edenman at gmail.com (Eric Denman) Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2006 16:51:46 -0400 Subject: [Cheese] forgot cheesecloth Message-ID: <9c71ba430609041351q57008b4fs103f4b04c23e31be@mail.gmail.com> Hi all, Dilemma is this: I started making a 2gal batch of gouda today, and realized I had no more cheesecloth on hand. I made a trip to the housewares store after adding the rennet to the milk (while it was curdling, I had an hour to spare), but they were closed because it's Labor Day. Screwed. Wondering which of the following options is best: 1) leave the un-cut curds in the pot overnight and just continue making cheese after I obtain some cheesecloth in the morning 2) refrigerate the un-cut curds overnight and "" 3) something else? Any advice would be most helpful, especially if it's received soon. thanks, Eric -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20060904/55e700fd/attachment-0002.html From arf at mc.net Mon Sep 4 20:48:24 2006 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 18:48:24 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] forgot cheesecloth In-Reply-To: <9c71ba430609041351q57008b4fs103f4b04c23e31be@mail.gmail.com> References: <9c71ba430609041351q57008b4fs103f4b04c23e31be@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <44FCC958.3080504@mc.net> Eric Denman wrote: > 1) leave the un-cut curds in the pot overnight and just continue making > cheese after I obtain some cheesecloth in the morning > 2) refrigerate the un-cut curds overnight and "" > 3) something else? Definately something else. Just put the curds in the press without a cheese cloth and start pressing gently. In the morning, take it out and put on a cheese cloth... an old hanky will do in a pinch. Any of your other options, will ruin the cheese. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From firock at comcast.net Mon Sep 4 21:13:31 2006 From: firock at comcast.net (firock@comcast.net) Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 01:13:31 +0000 Subject: [Cheese] forgot cheesecloth Message-ID: <090520060113.17310.44FCCF3B00055FF90000439E2200745672050C019D0700@comcast.net> Hi Eric, I just got home, so maybe someone else answered you. Are you married, or have a girlfried, or someone who uses stockings? (you never know) I would try that, it might get clogged, but the stores will be open tomorrow. I was going to try a gouda this week. I made some soft cheese, and chedder. The chedder is now in age mode, waiting till mid Sept. Made some GREAT vinilla and choc ice cream last week, wow.....so good! Good Luck, Terre From lou02 at aapt.net.au Wed Sep 6 02:00:13 2006 From: lou02 at aapt.net.au (lou02@aapt.net.au) Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2006 16:00:13 +1000 Subject: [Cheese] forgot cheesecloth In-Reply-To: <9c71ba430609041351q57008b4fs103f4b04c23e31be@mail.gmail.com> References: <9c71ba430609041351q57008b4fs103f4b04c23e31be@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1157522413.44fe63ed9e56d@webmail.smartchat.net.au> You can use chux cloth if you have any on hand or other loose weave cloth. Tina Quoting Eric Denman : > Hi all, > > Dilemma is this: > > I started making a 2gal batch of gouda today, and realized I had no more > cheesecloth on hand. I made a trip to the housewares store after adding the > rennet to the milk (while it was curdling, I had an hour to spare), but they > were closed because it's Labor Day. Screwed. > > Wondering which of the following options is best: > > 1) leave the un-cut curds in the pot overnight and just continue making > cheese after I obtain some cheesecloth in the morning > 2) refrigerate the un-cut curds overnight and "" > 3) something else? > > Any advice would be most helpful, especially if it's received soon. > > thanks, > Eric > From lou02 at aapt.net.au Wed Sep 6 02:03:09 2006 From: lou02 at aapt.net.au (lou02@aapt.net.au) Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2006 16:03:09 +1000 Subject: [Cheese] forgot cheesecloth In-Reply-To: <090520060113.17310.44FCCF3B00055FF90000439E2200745672050C019D0700@comcast.net> References: <090520060113.17310.44FCCF3B00055FF90000439E2200745672050C019D0700@comcast.net> Message-ID: <1157522589.44fe649d7f523@webmail.smartchat.net.au> Terre Just reading your reply to Eric and noticed you said that you made ice-cream could you send me the receipe as every time I try the ice cream recipes I have they turn out icy. Tina Quoting firock at comcast.net: > Hi Eric, > I just got home, so maybe someone else answered you. Are you married, or > have a girlfried, or someone who uses stockings? (you never know) I would try > that, it might get clogged, but the stores will be open tomorrow. I was going > to try a gouda this week. I made some soft cheese, and chedder. The chedder > is now in age mode, waiting till mid Sept. Made some GREAT vinilla and choc > ice cream last week, wow.....so good! > > Good Luck, > > Terre > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > From firock at comcast.net Wed Sep 6 07:47:01 2006 From: firock at comcast.net (firock@comcast.net) Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 11:47:01 +0000 Subject: [Cheese] Ice cream Message-ID: <090620061147.15192.44FEB535000D0CD900003B582206424613050C019D0700@comcast.net> Hi Tina and other listers, Here is the recipe that came with my automatic ice cream maker. (yes, I plug it in, and it only took 45 minutes to make!) This recipe takes a little longer, but is worth the effort! Old Fashioned Vinilla Ice Cream 3 cups sugar 1/4 teaspoon salt 9 1/2 cups of milk (goats of course!) 6 large eggs, beaten 1 tablespoon vinilla extract In a heavy sauce pan, combine sugar, salt, and milk. Cook over medium heat stirring occasionally until mixture is steaming. Reduce heat to Low. In a medium bowl, slightly beat eggs. Slowly whisk half of the mixture into the eggs and pour back into saucepan. Cook over medium-low heat until slightly thick, about 3 minutes. Remove from heat and refrigerate until chilled or overnight. When ready to make ice cream, stir in vinilla to custard mixture, pour into canister and follow directions on ice cream maker. This would be the part of putting the canister in the machine, adding the ice and rock salt, then turning it on. This is a great ice cream, next year I will be adding my own fresh fruit! My husband got this ice cream maker from Target for my birthday in August. It was under $30.00 The rock salt is seperate, but you can use regular salt also, I did. The recipe makes a quart of ice cream. Terre From edenman at gmail.com Wed Sep 6 13:40:16 2006 From: edenman at gmail.com (Eric Denman) Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2006 13:40:16 -0400 Subject: [Cheese] forgot cheesecloth Message-ID: <9c71ba430609061040r1b967c53r134de0703ef3ca1d@mail.gmail.com> thanks for all the suggestions, guys. In retrospect, I should've used the handkerchief suggestion, because when I got to the curds after refrigerating them overnight, they were far too acidic and the texture was breaking up. Oh well, two gallons of curdled milk down the drain. There's always next week. Thanks again for the help. Just gotta make sure I keep cheesecloth on hand more often to avoid this in the future. Eric -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20060906/f4abf501/attachment-0002.html From arf at mc.net Wed Sep 6 14:06:14 2006 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 12:06:14 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] forgot cheesecloth In-Reply-To: <9c71ba430609061040r1b967c53r134de0703ef3ca1d@mail.gmail.com> References: <9c71ba430609061040r1b967c53r134de0703ef3ca1d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <44FF0E16.1000908@mc.net> Eric Denman wrote: > Thanks again for the help. Just gotta make sure I keep cheesecloth on hand > more often to avoid this in the future. As a point of interest and to brag about my prowess, the real need for a cheesecloth is a self inflicted wound. When we first introduced our press, we put all those holes in the mold just like every else for centuries. After a bit of use and more research, it became obvious that the holes are not necessary and simply provide a spaghetti extruder. The big clue was pictures of cheese factories and all those neat stainless molds with no holes. Dealing with a large cloth on the initial pressing is a real hassle and completely unnecessary if there are no holes in the mold. After the overnight pressing, a cheese cloth is needed to let the air escape along the sides but it is just a simple bandage around the cheese. If you don't do this, you get voids in the sides but it has nothing to do with holes. Contrary to popular opinion, there is more than enough leakage around the base of the mold to allow the whey to escape. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From rosemarygoddess at moonwiseherbs.com Thu Sep 7 12:23:39 2006 From: rosemarygoddess at moonwiseherbs.com (Linda Conroy) Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 10:23:39 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] Cheese Digest, Vol 12, Issue 3 Message-ID: <200609071624.k87GOFu1003244@brew.hbd.org>

I hope you did not throw those curds down the drain,,,,at the very least they could be cooked into a casserole or eaten as is. They surely were not a total waste.

Linda

From edenman at gmail.com Fri Sep 8 12:41:18 2006 From: edenman at gmail.com (Eric Denman) Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 12:41:18 -0400 Subject: [Cheese] curds down the drain Message-ID: <9c71ba430609080941j7634d047qf78b38a45be1cae5@mail.gmail.com> yea, sadly i just dumped em down the drain...they were far too acidic for eating as-is, and I didn't have high hopes for any sort of dish that I could possibly coerce them into. sad, but so it goes. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20060908/eb96f36c/attachment-0002.html From patrickmann at hotmail.com Mon Sep 11 15:47:28 2006 From: patrickmann at hotmail.com (Patrick Mann) Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 12:47:28 -0700 Subject: [Cheese] need pointers for DIY press Message-ID: I've been searching the web for instructions for a simple DIY cheese press. I found a few, but either I can't source all the parts or I don't have the woodworking skills/tools to build it. E.g. a really well-fitting follower that can withstand pressure and moisture is a problem. If you have made a press using *readily available* parts, please share - thanks! _________________________________________________________________ Check the weather nationwide with MSN Search: Try it now! http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?q=weather&FORM=WLMTAG -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20060911/cf085192/attachment-0002.html From arf at mc.net Mon Sep 11 16:36:31 2006 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 14:36:31 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] need pointers for DIY press In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4505C8CF.9060201@mc.net> Patrick Mann wrote: > E.g. a really > well-fitting follower that can withstand pressure and moisture is a > problem. If you have made a press using *readily available* parts, > please share I don't think anyone has the parts off the shelf so you have to be able to do something to make them. The round follower is always a hangup without a lathe but who says the press has to be round? I have a square 6" press that I use more than the round one that we sell. Square cheese is nice. All you need to make a square one is a table saw. Make it out of 1/2" PVC cutting board stock or just buy some cutting boards at your local house wares store. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From keefejoseph at msn.com Mon Sep 11 16:57:51 2006 From: keefejoseph at msn.com (Joseph Keefe) Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 13:57:51 -0700 Subject: [Cheese] need pointers for DIY press In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I used a thick wood dowel for the shaft of the follower. You can buy a dowel at a hardward store. I cut a circle out of a piece of 3/4" plywood and screwed it to the end of the dowel. I inserted the opposite dowel end into a hole that I drill in a 3/4" plywood plank. I drilled the hole smaller than the dowel circumference, then whittled down the dowel end unti it fit snuggly. I used glue as well. I then put weights, carefully balanced, on top of the plank for the downward pressure. It works fine. Just use your imagination and get a picture in your mind of what you're trying to accomplish. You can cut a crude circle from wood, then put a more perfect circle of some material under it. Some people use wax that they've poured into a mold. You just want to get secure pressure. >From: "Patrick Mann" >Reply-To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" >To: cheese at hbd.org >Subject: [Cheese] need pointers for DIY press >Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 12:47:28 -0700 > >I've been searching the web for instructions for a simple DIY cheese press. >I found a few, but either I can't source all the parts or I don't have the >woodworking skills/tools to build it. E.g. a really well-fitting follower >that can withstand pressure and moisture is a problem. >If you have made a press using *readily available* parts, please share - >thanks! >_________________________________________________________________ >Check the weather nationwide with MSN Search: Try it now! >http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?q=weather&FORM=WLMTAG >_______________________________________________ >Cheese mailing list >Cheese at hbd.org >http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese From alhiem at gmail.com Mon Sep 18 22:42:42 2006 From: alhiem at gmail.com (Albert Ortiz) Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 22:42:42 -0400 Subject: [Cheese] need pointers for DIY press In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1e5a81050609181942r620eab69vfcd97e55d27c7cd@mail.gmail.com> I was walking around a store once and found some small hard plastic trash bins. I bought 2, filed away the small ribs it had on the inside, drilled a lot of small holes in one of them, and cleaned them really thorougly. What i figured was thatm if pvc is not food grade ans some people use it with success, well two plastic well rounded tubs oughtta do the trick. It aint perfect, by a long shot, but it worked until me and my dad built a very nice one from for fresh water pvc 8" in diamter tubing. Just an idea. One other thing you can do is go to thrifty store and check out their range of stoppered jars, some of them should have nice, wooden lids you can use as a follower, is what i did use until the two trash bins came around. Albert On 9/11/06, Patrick Mann wrote: > > I've been searching the web for instructions for a simple DIY cheese > press. I found a few, but either I can't source all the parts or I don't > have the woodworking skills/tools to build it. E.g. a really well-fitting > follower that can withstand pressure and moisture is a problem. > If you have made a press using *readily available* parts, please share - > thanks! > > > ------------------------------ > Check the weather nationwide with MSN Search Try it now! > > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20060918/12777196/attachment-0002.html From edenman at gmail.com Mon Sep 4 16:51:46 2006 From: edenman at gmail.com (Eric Denman) Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2006 16:51:46 -0400 Subject: [Cheese] forgot cheesecloth Message-ID: <9c71ba430609041351q57008b4fs103f4b04c23e31be@mail.gmail.com> Hi all, Dilemma is this: I started making a 2gal batch of gouda today, and realized I had no more cheesecloth on hand. I made a trip to the housewares store after adding the rennet to the milk (while it was curdling, I had an hour to spare), but they were closed because it's Labor Day. Screwed. Wondering which of the following options is best: 1) leave the un-cut curds in the pot overnight and just continue making cheese after I obtain some cheesecloth in the morning 2) refrigerate the un-cut curds overnight and "" 3) something else? Any advice would be most helpful, especially if it's received soon. thanks, Eric -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20060904/55e700fd/attachment-0003.html From arf at mc.net Mon Sep 4 20:48:24 2006 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 18:48:24 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] forgot cheesecloth In-Reply-To: <9c71ba430609041351q57008b4fs103f4b04c23e31be@mail.gmail.com> References: <9c71ba430609041351q57008b4fs103f4b04c23e31be@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <44FCC958.3080504@mc.net> Eric Denman wrote: > 1) leave the un-cut curds in the pot overnight and just continue making > cheese after I obtain some cheesecloth in the morning > 2) refrigerate the un-cut curds overnight and "" > 3) something else? Definately something else. Just put the curds in the press without a cheese cloth and start pressing gently. In the morning, take it out and put on a cheese cloth... an old hanky will do in a pinch. Any of your other options, will ruin the cheese. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From firock at comcast.net Mon Sep 4 21:13:31 2006 From: firock at comcast.net (firock@comcast.net) Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 01:13:31 +0000 Subject: [Cheese] forgot cheesecloth Message-ID: <090520060113.17310.44FCCF3B00055FF90000439E2200745672050C019D0700@comcast.net> Hi Eric, I just got home, so maybe someone else answered you. Are you married, or have a girlfried, or someone who uses stockings? (you never know) I would try that, it might get clogged, but the stores will be open tomorrow. I was going to try a gouda this week. I made some soft cheese, and chedder. The chedder is now in age mode, waiting till mid Sept. Made some GREAT vinilla and choc ice cream last week, wow.....so good! Good Luck, Terre From lou02 at aapt.net.au Wed Sep 6 02:00:13 2006 From: lou02 at aapt.net.au (lou02@aapt.net.au) Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2006 16:00:13 +1000 Subject: [Cheese] forgot cheesecloth In-Reply-To: <9c71ba430609041351q57008b4fs103f4b04c23e31be@mail.gmail.com> References: <9c71ba430609041351q57008b4fs103f4b04c23e31be@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1157522413.44fe63ed9e56d@webmail.smartchat.net.au> You can use chux cloth if you have any on hand or other loose weave cloth. Tina Quoting Eric Denman : > Hi all, > > Dilemma is this: > > I started making a 2gal batch of gouda today, and realized I had no more > cheesecloth on hand. I made a trip to the housewares store after adding the > rennet to the milk (while it was curdling, I had an hour to spare), but they > were closed because it's Labor Day. Screwed. > > Wondering which of the following options is best: > > 1) leave the un-cut curds in the pot overnight and just continue making > cheese after I obtain some cheesecloth in the morning > 2) refrigerate the un-cut curds overnight and "" > 3) something else? > > Any advice would be most helpful, especially if it's received soon. > > thanks, > Eric > From lou02 at aapt.net.au Wed Sep 6 02:03:09 2006 From: lou02 at aapt.net.au (lou02@aapt.net.au) Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2006 16:03:09 +1000 Subject: [Cheese] forgot cheesecloth In-Reply-To: <090520060113.17310.44FCCF3B00055FF90000439E2200745672050C019D0700@comcast.net> References: <090520060113.17310.44FCCF3B00055FF90000439E2200745672050C019D0700@comcast.net> Message-ID: <1157522589.44fe649d7f523@webmail.smartchat.net.au> Terre Just reading your reply to Eric and noticed you said that you made ice-cream could you send me the receipe as every time I try the ice cream recipes I have they turn out icy. Tina Quoting firock at comcast.net: > Hi Eric, > I just got home, so maybe someone else answered you. Are you married, or > have a girlfried, or someone who uses stockings? (you never know) I would try > that, it might get clogged, but the stores will be open tomorrow. I was going > to try a gouda this week. I made some soft cheese, and chedder. The chedder > is now in age mode, waiting till mid Sept. Made some GREAT vinilla and choc > ice cream last week, wow.....so good! > > Good Luck, > > Terre > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > From firock at comcast.net Wed Sep 6 07:47:01 2006 From: firock at comcast.net (firock@comcast.net) Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 11:47:01 +0000 Subject: [Cheese] Ice cream Message-ID: <090620061147.15192.44FEB535000D0CD900003B582206424613050C019D0700@comcast.net> Hi Tina and other listers, Here is the recipe that came with my automatic ice cream maker. (yes, I plug it in, and it only took 45 minutes to make!) This recipe takes a little longer, but is worth the effort! Old Fashioned Vinilla Ice Cream 3 cups sugar 1/4 teaspoon salt 9 1/2 cups of milk (goats of course!) 6 large eggs, beaten 1 tablespoon vinilla extract In a heavy sauce pan, combine sugar, salt, and milk. Cook over medium heat stirring occasionally until mixture is steaming. Reduce heat to Low. In a medium bowl, slightly beat eggs. Slowly whisk half of the mixture into the eggs and pour back into saucepan. Cook over medium-low heat until slightly thick, about 3 minutes. Remove from heat and refrigerate until chilled or overnight. When ready to make ice cream, stir in vinilla to custard mixture, pour into canister and follow directions on ice cream maker. This would be the part of putting the canister in the machine, adding the ice and rock salt, then turning it on. This is a great ice cream, next year I will be adding my own fresh fruit! My husband got this ice cream maker from Target for my birthday in August. It was under $30.00 The rock salt is seperate, but you can use regular salt also, I did. The recipe makes a quart of ice cream. Terre From edenman at gmail.com Wed Sep 6 13:40:16 2006 From: edenman at gmail.com (Eric Denman) Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2006 13:40:16 -0400 Subject: [Cheese] forgot cheesecloth Message-ID: <9c71ba430609061040r1b967c53r134de0703ef3ca1d@mail.gmail.com> thanks for all the suggestions, guys. In retrospect, I should've used the handkerchief suggestion, because when I got to the curds after refrigerating them overnight, they were far too acidic and the texture was breaking up. Oh well, two gallons of curdled milk down the drain. There's always next week. Thanks again for the help. Just gotta make sure I keep cheesecloth on hand more often to avoid this in the future. Eric -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20060906/f4abf501/attachment-0003.html From arf at mc.net Wed Sep 6 14:06:14 2006 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 12:06:14 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] forgot cheesecloth In-Reply-To: <9c71ba430609061040r1b967c53r134de0703ef3ca1d@mail.gmail.com> References: <9c71ba430609061040r1b967c53r134de0703ef3ca1d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <44FF0E16.1000908@mc.net> Eric Denman wrote: > Thanks again for the help. Just gotta make sure I keep cheesecloth on hand > more often to avoid this in the future. As a point of interest and to brag about my prowess, the real need for a cheesecloth is a self inflicted wound. When we first introduced our press, we put all those holes in the mold just like every else for centuries. After a bit of use and more research, it became obvious that the holes are not necessary and simply provide a spaghetti extruder. The big clue was pictures of cheese factories and all those neat stainless molds with no holes. Dealing with a large cloth on the initial pressing is a real hassle and completely unnecessary if there are no holes in the mold. After the overnight pressing, a cheese cloth is needed to let the air escape along the sides but it is just a simple bandage around the cheese. If you don't do this, you get voids in the sides but it has nothing to do with holes. Contrary to popular opinion, there is more than enough leakage around the base of the mold to allow the whey to escape. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From rosemarygoddess at moonwiseherbs.com Thu Sep 7 12:23:39 2006 From: rosemarygoddess at moonwiseherbs.com (Linda Conroy) Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 10:23:39 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] Cheese Digest, Vol 12, Issue 3 Message-ID: <200609071624.k87GOFu1003244@brew.hbd.org>

I hope you did not throw those curds down the drain,,,,at the very least they could be cooked into a casserole or eaten as is. They surely were not a total waste.

Linda