From hombrewdude at yahoo.com Thu Jan 3 00:26:33 2008 From: hombrewdude at yahoo.com (hombrewdude) Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 23:26:33 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] How much mold on Stilton? In-Reply-To: <46EC16CC.4000409@yahoo.com> References: <46EB57DA.1050802@yahoo.com> <008501c7f7bb$6593f990$6a4dd458@tissemand> <46EC16CC.4000409@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <477C7209.7090900@yahoo.com> It is now 3 months later. My water pan method did not seem to work, the cheese started to get too dry. I moved them to a ziplock bag that I left 50% open. The cheese is also been stored rather cool 45-50F The mold is black and white. Am I still ok? I can post pictures if it will help? Should I scrape and mold? Wipe with salt? Poke holes?? hombrewdude wrote: > This is 3 weeks old now. > I just wonder if I have too much mold? > Should I wide it with salt water? > >> >> >> >>> I tried to make my first mold type cheese. >>> >>> I used a store bought culture and added it to the milk. >>> >>> I now have 2 1lb rounds of cheese on a grate over a pan of water in >>> a 50F fridge. >>> >>> The green fuzzy mold is over 75% of the surface. >>> >>> What should I do next? >>> >> >> How old is it ? >> >> Generally speaking, "furry" cheeses start to soften when they are >> ready to eat.. >> >> The older it gets, the stronger it tastes.. >> >> /peter >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Cheese mailing list >> Cheese at hbd.org >> http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese >> >> >> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20080102/1c6d2837/attachment-0002.html From arf at mc.net Thu Jan 3 08:41:47 2008 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 05:41:47 -0800 Subject: [Cheese] How much mold on Stilton? In-Reply-To: <477C7209.7090900@yahoo.com> References: <46EB57DA.1050802@yahoo.com> <008501c7f7bb$6593f990$6a4dd458@tissemand> <46EC16CC.4000409@yahoo.com> <477C7209.7090900@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <477CE61B.5050300@mc.net> hombrewdude wrote: > It is now 3 months later. > My water pan method did not seem to work, the cheese started to get too > dry. The water pan method never works. It is a bit of nonsense that keeps being repeated over and over. > I moved them to a ziplock bag that I left 50% open. > The cheese is also been stored rather cool 45-50F If it spent 3 months drying out, it may never recover. You must control the humidity from the beginning. As described on my Stilton page, the best way to do that is in a plastic shoe box with the lid open a bit. Get a hygrometer and monitor the humidity till you get a feel for what it takes. > The mold is black and white. Probably not black. White, orange, blue, green... all normal. > > Am I still ok? Taste it and find out. > Should I scrape and mold? Wipe with salt? Poke holes?? Start over and do it right as per my recipe for example. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From bobbin_lace at dswebnet.com Thu Jan 3 12:41:33 2008 From: bobbin_lace at dswebnet.com (Barbara Witt) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 09:41:33 -0800 Subject: [Cheese] making goat milk cheese? Message-ID: <001401c84e2f$e25db2c0$6401a8c0@conrad3igswqs1> Where can I find information on making goat milk cheese? Thanks, Barb -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20080103/5ca31807/attachment-0002.html From Mark.Bignell at hq.dodea.edu Thu Jan 3 12:53:19 2008 From: Mark.Bignell at hq.dodea.edu (Bignell, Mark S CIV DoDEA) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 12:53:19 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] making goat milk cheese? In-Reply-To: <001401c84e2f$e25db2c0$6401a8c0@conrad3igswqs1> References: <001401c84e2f$e25db2c0$6401a8c0@conrad3igswqs1> Message-ID: <5AC1A3E66A01DC42BBC6F06A92A69F0D018F79CD@HQ-EX2.hq.ds.dodea.edu> Hi Barb, I like www.fias-cofarm.com I made some really great cheeses using their recipes. Mark ________________________________ From: cheese-bounces at hbd.org [mailto:cheese-bounces at hbd.org] On Behalf Of Barbara Witt Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 12:42 PM To: cheese at hbd.org Subject: [Cheese] making goat milk cheese? Where can I find information on making goat milk cheese? Thanks, Barb -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20080103/c57440b7/attachment-0002.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 4488 bytes Desc: image001.gif Url : http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20080103/c57440b7/attachment-0002.gif From hombrewdude at yahoo.com Thu Jan 3 17:38:57 2008 From: hombrewdude at yahoo.com (hombrewdude) Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 16:38:57 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] How much mold on Stilton? In-Reply-To: <477CE61B.5050300@mc.net> References: <46EB57DA.1050802@yahoo.com> <008501c7f7bb$6593f990$6a4dd458@tissemand> <46EC16CC.4000409@yahoo.com> <477C7209.7090900@yahoo.com> <477CE61B.5050300@mc.net> Message-ID: <477D6401.3090300@yahoo.com> So I should just throw this away??? That doesn't make much sense... Why would my ziplock bag be any different then your plastic shoe box method? Jack Schmidling wrote: > hombrewdude wrote: > >> It is now 3 months later. >> My water pan method did not seem to work, the cheese started to get too >> dry. >> > > > The water pan method never works. It is a bit of nonsense that keeps > being repeated over and over. > > >> I moved them to a ziplock bag that I left 50% open. >> The cheese is also been stored rather cool 45-50F >> > > If it spent 3 months drying out, it may never recover. You must control > the humidity from the beginning. > > As described on my Stilton page, the best way to do that is in a plastic > shoe box with the lid open a bit. Get a hygrometer and monitor the > humidity till you get a feel for what it takes. > > > >> The mold is black and white. >> > > Probably not black. White, orange, blue, green... all normal. > >> Am I still ok? >> > > Taste it and find out. > > >> Should I scrape and mold? Wipe with salt? Poke holes?? >> > > Start over and do it right as per my recipe for example. > > js > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20080103/79f73872/attachment-0002.html From landonmorgan at gmail.com Thu Jan 3 16:56:25 2008 From: landonmorgan at gmail.com (Landon Morgan) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 16:56:25 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] Any interest in a Cheesemaking BBS? Message-ID: <733b93bf0801031356u7b4f1ad0n8cbfcae58bebac23@mail.gmail.com> Just wondering- the mailing list concept is kinda dated. I have the domain name talkcheese.com and could easily put up a bulletin board system. This would allow the information and data to be a bit more accessible. Any interest in this? Let me know. landonmorgan at gmail.com -- Landon S. Morgan St. Augustine, FL ___________________________ This email account is used for personal and business communications by the sender. All correspondence contained herein should be considered a privileged communication between recipient and sender. Contents of this email shall not be released or retransmitted without the explicit consent of both parties. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20080103/7afea6fe/attachment-0002.html From arf at mc.net Thu Jan 3 18:43:53 2008 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 15:43:53 -0800 Subject: [Cheese] Any interest in a Cheesemaking BBS? In-Reply-To: <733b93bf0801031356u7b4f1ad0n8cbfcae58bebac23@mail.gmail.com> References: <733b93bf0801031356u7b4f1ad0n8cbfcae58bebac23@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <477D7339.3040203@mc.net> Landon Morgan wrote: > Just wondering- the mailing list concept is kinda dated. So is money but it works just fine. > I have the domain name talkcheese.com and could easily put up a > bulletin board system. This would allow the information and data to be a bit > more accessible. I think you need to be a bit more explicit. What is a bulletin board system? What does it offer better than this? The community is small enough... what is gained by spreading it thinner? I will also bet that there will be ads and commercials on your BBS? js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From arf at mc.net Thu Jan 3 18:48:40 2008 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 15:48:40 -0800 Subject: [Cheese] How much mold on Stilton? In-Reply-To: <477D6401.3090300@yahoo.com> References: <46EB57DA.1050802@yahoo.com> <008501c7f7bb$6593f990$6a4dd458@tissemand> <46EC16CC.4000409@yahoo.com> <477C7209.7090900@yahoo.com> <477CE61B.5050300@mc.net> <477D6401.3090300@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <477D7458.4040809@mc.net> hombrewdude wrote: > So I should just throw this away??? > > That doesn't make much sense... That was your idea. I would taste it first. You might like it.. just change the name if it's good. > Why would my ziplock bag be any different then your plastic shoe box > method? It's not if you can control the opening and humidity with it but the shoebox seems easier. However, you implied that you started the bag treatment 3 months too late. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From arf at mc.net Thu Jan 3 18:54:18 2008 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 15:54:18 -0800 Subject: [Cheese] making goat milk cheese? In-Reply-To: <001401c84e2f$e25db2c0$6401a8c0@conrad3igswqs1> References: <001401c84e2f$e25db2c0$6401a8c0@conrad3igswqs1> Message-ID: <477D75AA.4030304@mc.net> Barbara Witt wrote: > Where can I find information on making goat milk cheese? There really is little difference in the process but goat milk usually has less fat so hard cheeses do not generally work out as well. However, it is easy to correct this problem if you add extra cream to the milk. This doesn't help much is you raise only goats and want to be self sufficient but life is not fair. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From zymy66 at yahoo.com Thu Jan 3 19:09:32 2008 From: zymy66 at yahoo.com (the zymurgist) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 16:09:32 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Cheese] parmesan cheese recipe In-Reply-To: <477D7458.4040809@mc.net> Message-ID: <853297.27121.qm@web35502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> does any one have a good recipe and process for making parmesan cheese? Thank you ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs From heidi at slowboil.com Thu Jan 3 19:20:00 2008 From: heidi at slowboil.com (Heidi Angove) Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 10:50:00 +1030 Subject: [Cheese] Any interest in a Cheesemaking BBS? In-Reply-To: <477D7339.3040203@mc.net> References: <733b93bf0801031356u7b4f1ad0n8cbfcae58bebac23@mail.gmail.com> <477D7339.3040203@mc.net> Message-ID: <1bb7ad130801031620q4898ba17n89801060425c420f@mail.gmail.com> I'm pretty happy with a mailing list. This way I get information slowly and without searching. I'm just a lurker but love being a part of the list. I'm yet to start really making anything beyond marscapone and ricotta and am learning so much before I take the big leap that I wouldn't have thought to search for or ask .. So a big thank you to you all for sharing your knowledge and please don't let the list disappear. On 1/4/08, Jack Schmidling wrote: > > Landon Morgan wrote: > > Just wondering- the mailing list concept is kinda dated. > > So is money but it works just fine. > > > I have the domain name talkcheese.com and could easily put up a > > bulletin board system. This would allow the information and data to be a > bit > > more accessible. > > I think you need to be a bit more explicit. What is a bulletin board > system? What does it offer better than this? The community is small > enough... what is gained by spreading it thinner? > > I will also bet that there will be ads and commercials on your BBS? > > js > > > -- > PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm > Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20080104/3db06f76/attachment-0002.html From jabbott at abbotts.org Thu Jan 3 18:32:19 2008 From: jabbott at abbotts.org (jabbott@abbotts.org) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 17:32:19 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Cheese] Any interest in a Cheesemaking BBS? In-Reply-To: <733b93bf0801031356u7b4f1ad0n8cbfcae58bebac23@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I assume you are talking about a forum? Like phpBB or something? I would be willing to help out with that. The nice thing about going that route rather than the list is it is easier to search old posts. --ja On Thu, 3 Jan 2008, Landon Morgan wrote: > Just wondering- the mailing list concept is kinda dated. > I have the domain name talkcheese.com and could easily put up a > bulletin board system. This would allow the information and data to be a bit > more accessible. > Any interest in this? > Let me know. > > landonmorgan at gmail.com > > -- From bac at NebrWesleyan.edu Thu Jan 3 19:36:27 2008 From: bac at NebrWesleyan.edu (Barbara Cornelius) Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 18:36:27 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] making goat milk cheese? In-Reply-To: <477D75AA.4030304@mc.net> References: <001401c84e2f$e25db2c0$6401a8c0@conrad3igswqs1> <477D75AA.4030304@mc.net> Message-ID: <20080103183627.10mw5ahoasg480oc@webmail.nebrwesleyan.edu> I'm sorry, but this is just not true. Usually goat milk has a little *more* fat than cow milk; 10 grams of fat per 8oz goat milk compared to 8 to 9 grams of fat for the same amount of cow milk. For more information about that, see this website: http://fiascofarm.com/dairy/goatmilk-breakdown.html Fias Co Farm's website is also a good place to find out about making soft and hard goat cheeses. There are many, many traditional hard cheeses made from goat milk. They are no more difficult than cow milk cheeses, but you do need to adjust your 'cooking' temperatures down somewhat, and use differing amounts of rennet. It all depends on what sort of cheese you ware wanting to make. I have found a great resource of information and help to be this Yahoo group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GoatCheesePlus/ It's made up of dairy owners, goat cheese makers, beginning and advanced. I think you'll find it useful. I hope this helps! Barbara Quoting Jack Schmidling : > Barbara Witt wrote: >> Where can I find information on making goat milk cheese? > > There really is little difference in the process but goat milk usually > has less fat so hard cheeses do not generally work out as well. > However, it is easy to correct this problem if you add extra cream to > the milk. > > This doesn't help much is you raise only goats and want to be self > sufficient but life is not fair. > > js > > -- > PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm > Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20080103/a0907dcf/attachment-0002.html From arf at mc.net Thu Jan 3 20:10:52 2008 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 17:10:52 -0800 Subject: [Cheese] making goat milk cheese? In-Reply-To: <20080103183627.10mw5ahoasg480oc@webmail.nebrwesleyan.edu> References: <001401c84e2f$e25db2c0$6401a8c0@conrad3igswqs1> <477D75AA.4030304@mc.net> <20080103183627.10mw5ahoasg480oc@webmail.nebrwesleyan.edu> Message-ID: <477D879C.4070304@mc.net> Barbara Cornelius wrote: > > > I'm sorry, but this is just not true. Usually goat milk has a little > *more* fat than cow milk; I stand corrected but there is something about the fat that makes it difficult to produce a cheddar type cheese. Something to do with the globule size which makes it similar to homogenized cow milk. Is it not true that one can not separate the fat with a separator to make cream and butter with goat milk? I confess limited experience with goat milk and not having milk goats, the cost makes it not worth further investigation. I made two batches from fresh goat milk and they both turned out hard as bricks. Nice grating cheese but no joy. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From bac at NebrWesleyan.edu Thu Jan 3 22:17:48 2008 From: bac at NebrWesleyan.edu (Barbara Cornelius) Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 21:17:48 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] making goat milk cheese? In-Reply-To: <477D879C.4070304@mc.net> References: <001401c84e2f$e25db2c0$6401a8c0@conrad3igswqs1> <477D75AA.4030304@mc.net> <20080103183627.10mw5ahoasg480oc@webmail.nebrwesleyan.edu> <477D879C.4070304@mc.net> Message-ID: <20080103211748.9raa48viss88cs00@webmail.nebrwesleyan.edu> Quoting Jack Schmidling : > Barbara Cornelius wrote: >> >> >> ? ?I'm sorry, but this is just not true. Usually goat milk has a? little >> *more* fat than cow milk; > > I stand corrected but there is something about the fat that makes it > difficult to produce a cheddar type cheese.? Something to do with the > globule size which makes it similar to homogenized cow milk. > > Is it not true that one can not separate the fat with a separator to > make cream and butter with goat milk? > > I confess limited experience with goat milk and not having milk goats, > the cost makes it not worth further investigation.? I made two batches > from fresh goat milk and they both turned out hard as bricks.? Nice > grating cheese but no joy. Goat milk is naturally homogenized. It has smaller fat globules, although the milk can be separated from the cream with a separator. If you let a jar of it set for a couple of days, you can see that some of the milkfat does rise to the top. There are several makers of really good goat cheddar, although I have no idea exactly what they have to do differently from cow cheddar to make it.? I have a local source for goat milk, and I've used it to make 50/50 goat-cow hard cheeses, but not cheddar. What I don't know about goat milk and goat cheeses FAR exceeds what I do know, however :) Try Fias Co Farm's site, and definitely look at this site: http://biology.clc.uc.edu/Fankhauser/Cheese/Cheese.html He has goats and is also a biology prof who teaches his students about fermentation, yeasts, etc. by making cheese, beer, bread, etc. He uses his goats' milk in his cheeses, and puts up all kinds of recipes. Barbara ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20080103/e6a548ca/attachment-0002.html From landonmorgan at gmail.com Thu Jan 3 22:45:25 2008 From: landonmorgan at gmail.com (Landon Morgan) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 22:45:25 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] Any interest in a Cheesemaking BBS? In-Reply-To: <477D7339.3040203@mc.net> References: <733b93bf0801031356u7b4f1ad0n8cbfcae58bebac23@mail.gmail.com> <477D7339.3040203@mc.net> Message-ID: <733b93bf0801031945m3ece3c45l509555c0df0f68fe@mail.gmail.com> "So is money but it works just fine." There's a difference between something that "works" and something that "works well" "I think you need to be a bit more explicit. What is a bulletin board system? What does it offer better than this? The community is small enough... what is gained by spreading it thinner?" A bulletin board system is a format for discussion that allows the topics, pictures and conversations to be viewed as their own medium in a "forum setting" rather than as a series of unique, topical email communiques sent to subscribing participants. It wouldn't serve to "spread the community thinner" but rather would serve to start a forum and community with a base of knowledgeable people- the people of this mailing list- that could eventually grow larger. Fact is, hamstringing the community to a mailing list isn't exactly conducive to growth. Cheesemaking is a narrow enough field of interest that it's probably best to remain reasonably progressive as a community rather than lodged in old formats with wildly inferior functionality. I envision a BBS system where cheesemakers from all over the world can come together to post pictures and share knowledge with each other. As far as ads, maybe there would be, but I can assure you, this isn't a venture for profit and almost certainly wouldn't ever be lucrative. There just aren't enough cheesemakers out there to hope for a payday as a result of this, but there are enough out there to warrant a new, updated format for discussion. Anyway, that's my case for it. I would welcome any other opinions. On Jan 3, 2008 6:43 PM, Jack Schmidling wrote: > Landon Morgan wrote: > > Just wondering- the mailing list concept is kinda dated. > > So is money but it works just fine. > > > I have the domain name talkcheese.com and could easily put up a > > bulletin board system. This would allow the information and data to be a > bit > > more accessible. > > I think you need to be a bit more explicit. What is a bulletin board > system? What does it offer better than this? The community is small > enough... what is gained by spreading it thinner? > > I will also bet that there will be ads and commercials on your BBS? > > js > > > -- > PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm > Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > -- Landon S. Morgan St. Augustine, FL ___________________________ This email account is used for personal and business communications by the sender. All correspondence contained herein should be considered a privileged communication between recipient and sender. Contents of this email shall not be released or retransmitted without the explicit consent of both parties. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20080103/68aaba56/attachment-0002.html From landonmorgan at gmail.com Thu Jan 3 22:50:10 2008 From: landonmorgan at gmail.com (Landon Morgan) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 22:50:10 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] Any interest in a Cheesemaking BBS? In-Reply-To: References: <733b93bf0801031356u7b4f1ad0n8cbfcae58bebac23@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <733b93bf0801031950h40dc1ab9t2159d4b73a8edb82@mail.gmail.com> And as an aside... it wouldn't make the list "disappear". The list could continue as it pleased. It would simply provide a format with modern functionality that would allow us all to discuss this stuff in a way that is very efficient. The forum would be very, very small to start off with and would have extremely limited activity. That's for sure. On Jan 3, 2008 6:32 PM, < jabbott at abbotts.org> wrote: > > I assume you are talking about a forum? Like phpBB or something? I would > be willing to help out with that. > > The nice thing about going that route rather than the list is it is easier > to search old posts. > > --ja > > On Thu, 3 Jan 2008, Landon Morgan wrote: > > > Just wondering- the mailing list concept is kinda dated. > > I have the domain name talkcheese.com and could easily put up a > > bulletin board system. This would allow the information and data to be a > bit > > more accessible. > > Any interest in this? > > Let me know. > > > > landonmorgan at gmail.com > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > -- Landon S. Morgan St. Augustine, FL ___________________________ This email account is used for personal and business communications by the sender. All correspondence contained herein should be considered a privileged communication between recipient and sender. Contents of this email shall not be released or retransmitted without the explicit consent of both parties. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20080103/335f674c/attachment-0002.html From arf at mc.net Thu Jan 3 23:41:05 2008 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 20:41:05 -0800 Subject: [Cheese] Any interest in a Cheesemaking BBS? In-Reply-To: <733b93bf0801031945m3ece3c45l509555c0df0f68fe@mail.gmail.com> References: <733b93bf0801031356u7b4f1ad0n8cbfcae58bebac23@mail.gmail.com> <477D7339.3040203@mc.net> <733b93bf0801031945m3ece3c45l509555c0df0f68fe@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <477DB8E1.3060108@mc.net> Landon Morgan wrote: > A bulletin board system is a format for discussion that allows the topics, > pictures and conversations to be viewed as their own medium in a "forum > setting"...... What is a forum setting? >rather than as a series of unique, topical email communiques sent > to subscribing participants. Seems like what a forum is all about. I still do not understand what it is you are after that isn't covered in this format. >It wouldn't serve to "spread the community > thinner" but rather would serve to start a forum and community with a base > of knowledgeable people- the people of this mailing list- that could > eventually grow larger. How could it not spread us thinner? What you describe is exactly what we do here. > Fact is, hamstringing the community to a mailing list isn't exactly > conducive to growth. How's that hamstringing work? And quality of information is far more important than growth unless you are interested in selling advertising. >Cheesemaking is a narrow enough field of interest that > it's probably best to remain reasonably progressive as a community rather > than lodged in old formats with wildly inferior functionality. Psychobabble. > I envision a BBS system where cheesemakers from all over the world can come > together to post pictures and share knowledge with each other. That's what we do here. > As far as ads, maybe there would be, but I can assure you, this isn't a > venture for profit and almost certainly wouldn't ever be lucrative..... I am having a hard time coming up with another reason why someone would purchase a domain name such as talkcheese.com and then enter an existing list and suggest we all move to your totally modern and updated forum. Nor do I understand why anyone would move to be exposed to advertising. When nothing makes sense,.... follow the money trail. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From jabbott at abbotts.org Fri Jan 4 00:52:45 2008 From: jabbott at abbotts.org (jabbott@abbotts.org) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 23:52:45 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Cheese] Any interest in a Cheesemaking BBS? In-Reply-To: <477DB8E1.3060108@mc.net> Message-ID: I run a forum for people who heat their houses with corn. You can take a look at it at http://forum.iburncorn.com if you want to see what a forum could be like. At least it would kind of give you an idea of what this guy is proposing. The nice thing about it is it is easy to go into it and search for past messages. It is easy for people to tell about what they are doing. Pictures are a plus. We have a guy right now talking to the list about the dryness and quantity of mold on his cheese. Wouldn't it be nice to see a picture? I feel like Jack, you have a lot of really great information and knowlege it would be wonderful to get into one spot where it is easy to find. The list serv format is hard for new people to use and understand. I think Landon is correct you could atract some new users, get some additional opinions, and I know I would learn lots by having a forum format. Domain names are cheap to purchase. ~$30 a year, maybe less at some of the discount registration places. As far as following the money trail, well, that would be a pretty short trail. Pay per click advertising is a great way to make coffee money, but not much more. I am sure he could cover his $30/year but I wouldn't bet on much more. People just don't click on the ads the way the did years ago. In a few years, if it really takes off, he might get some sponsership money. ...not exactly something you retire on either... I started my corn burner's forum because I had just bought a burner, the instruction manual totally sucked, and there wasn't a whole lot of information on the net about how to run the darned thing. I started to write down some of my experiences, as I sat down in the basement watching this heater plug up and have all sorts of other troubles. I started the forum because I seem to have no skill with fire, but great skills with computers. I figured if I contributed what I could to the community, I could lurk and listen to all the people who knew more than I did about heating with corn. It has worked out great for me. And, I have about 3000 members who visit my forum and ask questions, answer questions, and generally chat about the topic they love. --ja On Thu, 3 Jan 2008, Jack Schmidling wrote: > Landon Morgan wrote: > > > A bulletin board system is a format for discussion that allows the topics, > > pictures and conversations to be viewed as their own medium in a "forum > > setting"...... > > What is a forum setting? > > >rather than as a series of unique, topical email communiques sent > > to subscribing participants. > > Seems like what a forum is all about. I still do not understand what it > is you are after that isn't covered in this format. > > >It wouldn't serve to "spread the community > > thinner" but rather would serve to start a forum and community with a base > > of knowledgeable people- the people of this mailing list- that could > > eventually grow larger. > > How could it not spread us thinner? What you describe is exactly what > we do here. > > > Fact is, hamstringing the community to a mailing list isn't exactly > > conducive to growth. > > How's that hamstringing work? And quality of information is far more > important than growth unless you are interested in selling advertising. > > >Cheesemaking is a narrow enough field of interest that > > it's probably best to remain reasonably progressive as a community rather > > than lodged in old formats with wildly inferior functionality. > > Psychobabble. > > > I envision a BBS system where cheesemakers from all over the world can come > > together to post pictures and share knowledge with each other. > > That's what we do here. > > > As far as ads, maybe there would be, but I can assure you, this isn't a > > venture for profit and almost certainly wouldn't ever be lucrative..... > > I am having a hard time coming up with another reason why someone would > purchase a domain name such as talkcheese.com and then enter an existing > list and suggest we all move to your totally modern and updated forum. > Nor do I understand why anyone would move to be exposed to advertising. > > When nothing makes sense,.... follow the money trail. > > js > > -- From mila.bulic at gmail.com Fri Jan 4 07:50:44 2008 From: mila.bulic at gmail.com (mila bulic) Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 09:50:44 -0300 Subject: [Cheese] new to cheese making Message-ID: I am new to cheese making and new to this group. I have been reading the threads and have found that there is a great deal of diversity with respect to experience in this group so I suspect I can learn a lot. I was not interested in making my own cheese before but since I have moved to northern Chile I have discovered that if I want cheese I am going to have to make it myself. We only have two kinds here--white and white--and I can barely tell the difference (one is gauda and the other is montecuso).... since I am a bit of a rat and love variety in my cheese, making cheese myself seems to be a good idea. Well, it is a good idea until you start trying to make it with all the wrong ingredients. There is a lot of information on the web on the subject and I have read a lot of it but I still have a lot of questions so I will begin to ask them--I didn't bother before because I did not have a source of fresh milk; living in the Atacama Desert is not exactly good grazing land, hahaha, and there are only two small, fertile valleys where it would be possible to get the milk--otherwise we only have UHT milk and I learned the hard way that you can't make cheese with that. Anyway, the first of my questions, before I waste any more of the culture that I purchased in the States, has to do with cultures. I can make the culture known as MMA myself as well as the thermophyllic culture--but how can I culture the MMW? It is an entirely different bacteria strain. Should I just buy some from the States and then try to culture it on my own? If so, how? If someone knows the answer to this first, of many questions to come, I would appreciate your help. Thanks a lot! Mila -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20080104/6920344c/attachment-0002.html From mila.bulic at gmail.com Fri Jan 4 07:56:07 2008 From: mila.bulic at gmail.com (mila bulic) Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 09:56:07 -0300 Subject: [Cheese] making goat milk cheese? In-Reply-To: <20080103211748.9raa48viss88cs00@webmail.nebrwesleyan.edu> References: <001401c84e2f$e25db2c0$6401a8c0@conrad3igswqs1> <477D75AA.4030304@mc.net> <20080103183627.10mw5ahoasg480oc@webmail.nebrwesleyan.edu> <477D879C.4070304@mc.net> <20080103211748.9raa48viss88cs00@webmail.nebrwesleyan.edu> Message-ID: I read that you need to use calcium chloride in goat's milk in order to make a proper cheese... On Jan 4, 2008 12:17 AM, Barbara Cornelius wrote: > Quoting Jack Schmidling : > > > Barbara Cornelius wrote: > >> > >> > >> I'm sorry, but this is just not true. Usually goat milk has a little > >> *more* fat than cow milk; > > > > I stand corrected but there is something about the fat that makes it > > difficult to produce a cheddar type cheese. Something to do with the > > globule size which makes it similar to homogenized cow milk. > > > > Is it not true that one can not separate the fat with a separator to > > make cream and butter with goat milk? > > > > I confess limited experience with goat milk and not having milk goats, > > the cost makes it not worth further investigation. I made two batches > > from fresh goat milk and they both turned out hard as bricks. Nice > > grating cheese but no joy. > > Goat milk is naturally homogenized. It has smaller fat globules, although > the milk can be separated from the cream with a separator. If you let a jar > of it set for a couple of days, you can see that some of the milkfat does > rise to the top. > > There are several makers of really good goat cheddar, although I have no > idea exactly what they have to do differently from cow cheddar to make it. > I have a local source for goat milk, and I've used it to make 50/50 goat-cow > hard cheeses, but not cheddar. > > What I don't know about goat milk and goat cheeses FAR exceeds what I do > know, however :) Try Fias Co Farm's site, and definitely look at this site: > http://biology.clc.uc.edu/Fankhauser/Cheese/Cheese.html > > He has goats and is also a biology prof who teaches his students about > fermentation, yeasts, etc. by making cheese, beer, bread, etc. He uses his > goats' milk in his cheeses, and puts up all kinds of recipes. > > Barbara > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20080104/0115ee75/attachment-0002.html From arf at mc.net Fri Jan 4 08:51:48 2008 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2008 05:51:48 -0800 Subject: [Cheese] Testing 1 2 3 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <477E39F4.5060007@mc.net> As far as I know, there are no restrictions on attaching photos to messages other than the max allowable total message length which is 40k. The attached photo is only 7k so there is lots of latitude for photos. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: ccheese.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 7102 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20080104/5b845e73/ccheese-0002.jpg From hombrewdude at yahoo.com Fri Jan 4 09:12:58 2008 From: hombrewdude at yahoo.com (hombrewdude) Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2008 08:12:58 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] Testing 1 2 3 In-Reply-To: <477E39F4.5060007@mc.net> References: <477E39F4.5060007@mc.net> Message-ID: <477E3EEA.7080106@yahoo.com> Ok on my end.... Jack Schmidling wrote: > As far as I know, there are no restrictions on attaching photos to > messages other than the max allowable total message length which is 40k. > > The attached photo is only 7k so there is lots of latitude for photos. > > js > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20080104/f5d8598a/attachment-0002.html From chapka at yahoo.com Fri Jan 4 09:14:12 2008 From: chapka at yahoo.com (Christopher Hapka) Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 06:14:12 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Cheese] Forum Message-ID: <66129.39048.qm@web55207.mail.re4.yahoo.com> In general, I prefer forums to mailing lists, although I read both. Forums tend to allow a broader and somewhat more focused discussion. One suggestion: instead of limiting this to cheese, why not put up a more general fermented foods forum? The nice thing about a forum is that people who are only interested in cheesemaking could limit their reading to that, but people also interested in home pickling, sausage making, saurkrauting, vinegarmaking, and so on (and I assume there's a fair amount of crossover) could also participate in those topics. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping From arf at mc.net Fri Jan 4 09:16:52 2008 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2008 06:16:52 -0800 Subject: [Cheese] Any interest in a Cheesemaking BBS? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <477E3FD4.1070503@mc.net> jabbott at abbotts.org wrote: > I run a forum for people who heat their houses with corn. You can > take a look at it at http://forum.iburncorn.com if you want to see > what a forum could be like. At least it would kind of give you an > idea of what this guy is proposing. Now take a look at http://www.talkcheese.com/ and see what he is proposing. It's wall to wall advertising. >The nice thing about it is it is > easy to go into it and search for past messages. How is it easier than searching the archives of this list? > We > have a guy right now talking to the list about the dryness and > quantity of mold on his cheese. Wouldn't it be nice to see a > picture? All he has to do is post it as along as he obeys the max message restriction which can be changed but I see no need. > As far as following the money trail, well, that would be a pretty > short trail. Pay per click advertising is a great way to make coffee > money, but not much more. I am sure he could cover his $30/year but > I wouldn't bet on much more. People just don't click on the ads the > way the did years ago. In a few years, if it really takes off, he > might get some sponsership money. ...not exactly something you > retire on either... Then why do it? What is the point in annoying readers if there is no payback? If he is so interested in cheesemaking, where are all his postings to this list? Sorry but I read his posting as trolling for subscribers to his platform for advertising. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From bbowler at bigelow.org Fri Jan 4 09:50:45 2008 From: bbowler at bigelow.org (Bruce Bowler) Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 09:50:45 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] Forum In-Reply-To: <66129.39048.qm@web55207.mail.re4.yahoo.com> References: <66129.39048.qm@web55207.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20080104095045.e7c0b8f1.bbowler@bigelow.org> On Fri, 4 Jan 2008 06:14:12 -0800 (PST) Christopher Hapka put fingers to keyboard and said: > In general, I prefer forums to mailing lists, although I read both. In general, I prefer mailing lists to fora. One reason I prefer mailing lists is I can keep (and search) a local copy of the traffic on the list and, since it's my copy of the messages, I can delete all of the extra drek that inevitably occurs. If it's a forum-only interface, all that garbage is ALSO kept, or we all rely on one individuals opinion of what's worth keeping. > Forums tend to allow a broader and somewhat more focused discussion. How? "broader" and "focused" tend to be at alternate ends of a spectrum. Bruce -- +-------------------+---------------------------------------------------+ Bruce Bowler | Our days are not problems to be solved, but reality 1.207.633.9600 | to be lived. - Anonymous bbowler at bigelow.org | +-------------------+---------------------------------------------------+ From arf at mc.net Fri Jan 4 10:13:06 2008 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2008 07:13:06 -0800 Subject: [Cheese] making goat milk cheese? In-Reply-To: References: <001401c84e2f$e25db2c0$6401a8c0@conrad3igswqs1> <477D75AA.4030304@mc.net> <20080103183627.10mw5ahoasg480oc@webmail.nebrwesleyan.edu> <477D879C.4070304@mc.net> <20080103211748.9raa48viss88cs00@webmail.nebrwesleyan.edu> Message-ID: <477E4D02.7040808@mc.net> mila bulic wrote: > I read that you need to use calcium chloride in goat's milk in order to make > a proper cheese... According to Kosikowski, any milk that is not still warm from the animal needs calcium chloride. This is no doubt true in a theoretical sense but seems a bit of a reach in the real world. I never used it with fresh milk but it does seem to help firm up the curd when using homo milk. This would indicate that the same could be true for goat milk. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From derekbradford at gmail.com Fri Jan 4 10:22:19 2008 From: derekbradford at gmail.com (Derek Bradford) Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 00:22:19 +0900 Subject: [Cheese] Any interest in a Cheesemaking BBS? In-Reply-To: <477E3FD4.1070503@mc.net> References: <477E3FD4.1070503@mc.net> Message-ID: <799e8cd60801040722w36af4847p4d1db9ce25bce41f@mail.gmail.com> On Jan 4, 2008 11:16 PM, Jack Schmidling wrote: > jabbott at abbotts.org wrote: > > I run a forum for people who heat their houses with corn. You can > > take a look at it at http://forum.iburncorn.com if you want to see > > what a forum could be like. At least it would kind of give you an > > idea of what this guy is proposing. > > Now take a look at http://www.talkcheese.com/ and see what he is > proposing. It's wall to wall advertising. I have to correct you here, Jack. That page you see is actually controlled by his hosting company, GoDaddy.com. He has simply bought the domain, but he hasn't done anything with it yet. Until a person does something with a domain (in this case, probably paying for another year or so of hosting or registration), the hosting company keeps them active as springboards for ads. In other words, the ads you see aren't his responsibility, and may not be anything like what he has in mind. Most forums don't look that way from my experience. --Derek -- Every path but your own is the path of fate. --Thoreau -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20080105/fee1de66/attachment-0002.html From nate at allee.us Fri Jan 4 10:43:23 2008 From: nate at allee.us (Nathan Allee) Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 10:43:23 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] Cheesemaking BBS Message-ID: <44b5f4210801040743v6c66987l8655928c8c2f83c6@mail.gmail.com> >take a look at http://www.talkcheese.com/ and see what he is proposing. It's wall >to wall advertising. Jack, that's called a parking page. It's the default page put up by the registrar (in this case GoDaddy) until the owner of that particular domain name decides to put up something of his own. >Then why do it? What is the point in annoying readers if there is no payback? It's no more annoying than personal ads in an email signature line. >If he is so interested in cheesemaking, where are all his postings to this list? >Sorry but I read his posting as trolling for subscribers to his platform for >advertising. I agree that it could possibly be trolling, this is the internet after all. Or he could be a lurker, like I usually am, who prefers forums to mailing lists. If he is trolling then he's a rank amateur. A troller who knows what he's doing would have already had the forum up and running and populated with a bunch of fake users etc. All IMHO. +Nate ---------- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20080104/19f4af8c/attachment-0002.html From bac at NebrWesleyan.edu Fri Jan 4 10:50:20 2008 From: bac at NebrWesleyan.edu (Barbara Cornelius) Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2008 09:50:20 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] making goat milk cheese? In-Reply-To: References: <001401c84e2f$e25db2c0$6401a8c0@conrad3igswqs1> <477D75AA.4030304@mc.net> <20080103183627.10mw5ahoasg480oc@webmail.nebrwesleyan.edu> <477D879C.4070304@mc.net> <20080103211748.9raa48viss88cs00@webmail.nebrwesleyan.edu> Message-ID: <20080104095020.oclkobpu880gw8cc@webmail.nebrwesleyan.edu> You *could* use it, to make a firmer curd. It's used in cow milk cheeses if the milk has been homogenized and/or pasteurized. But I don't think it's absolutely necessary. Quoting mila bulic : > I read that you need to use calcium chloride in goat's milk in order to make > a proper cheese... > > On Jan 4, 2008 12:17 AM, Barbara Cornelius wrote: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20080104/5b18f0d4/attachment-0002.html From nate at allee.us Fri Jan 4 09:52:01 2008 From: nate at allee.us (Nathan Allee) Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 09:52:01 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] Cheesemaking BBS Message-ID: <44b5f4210801040652l3d3d3c29y93fb30dec35135f4@mail.gmail.com> I would love to have a dedicated cheese makers forum. I have been struggling thru mailing lists on several subjects for years and have never been satisfied with it. Maybe it's just me being too dumb or impatient to really learn how to make a mailing list work for me. On the other hand, the forum is a highly efficient way to organize a discussion on any subject and has a very low learning curve. All of the forums I belong to also incorporate the best features of a mailing list. I'll "make do" with a mailing list but I'd take a forum over a mailing list any day. The suspicion that Landon is just out to make some $ isn't really very logical. Even a cursory investigation would show that forums with lot's of advertising are also WILDLY popular (as in tens of thousands of members.) But wildly popular forums do not necessarily always have lots of ads. Landon, make the forum and I'll be the first to sign up (that is, as long as you don't load it down with tons of ads.) *grin* +Nate -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20080104/e1fcc111/attachment-0002.html From jabbott at abbotts.org Fri Jan 4 11:02:55 2008 From: jabbott at abbotts.org (jabbott@abbotts.org) Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 10:02:55 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Cheese] Any interest in a Cheesemaking BBS? In-Reply-To: <477E3FD4.1070503@mc.net> Message-ID: That is the parked page. Not the same thing at all as what a web site or web forum would be. --ja On Fri, 4 Jan 2008, Jack Schmidling wrote: > jabbott at abbotts.org wrote: > > I run a forum for people who heat their houses with corn. You can > > take a look at it at http://forum.iburncorn.com if you want to see > > what a forum could be like. At least it would kind of give you an > > idea of what this guy is proposing. > > Now take a look at http://www.talkcheese.com/ and see what he is > proposing. It's wall to wall advertising. > > > >The nice thing about it is it is > > easy to go into it and search for past messages. > > How is it easier than searching the archives of this list? > > > We > > have a guy right now talking to the list about the dryness and > > quantity of mold on his cheese. Wouldn't it be nice to see a > > picture? > > > All he has to do is post it as along as he obeys the max message > restriction which can be changed but I see no need. > > > As far as following the money trail, well, that would be a pretty > > short trail. Pay per click advertising is a great way to make coffee > > money, but not much more. I am sure he could cover his $30/year but > > I wouldn't bet on much more. People just don't click on the ads the > > way the did years ago. In a few years, if it really takes off, he > > might get some sponsership money. ...not exactly something you > > retire on either... > > Then why do it? What is the point in annoying readers if there is no > payback? > > If he is so interested in cheesemaking, where are all his postings to > this list? Sorry but I read his posting as trolling for subscribers to > his platform for advertising. > > js > > -- From arf at mc.net Fri Jan 4 12:32:34 2008 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2008 09:32:34 -0800 Subject: [Cheese] Any interest in a Cheesemaking BBS? In-Reply-To: <799e8cd60801040722w36af4847p4d1db9ce25bce41f@mail.gmail.com> References: <477E3FD4.1070503@mc.net> <799e8cd60801040722w36af4847p4d1db9ce25bce41f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <477E6DB2.4050908@mc.net> Derek Bradford wrote: > I have to correct you here, Jack. In other words, the ads you see aren't his responsibility, and may not > be anything like what he has in mind. I understand but it makes the point of what the possibilities are and what so many of them really do look like. The fact that he already said it would include advertising is enough to keep me away. I do not like ads. My not so humble opinion. Personally, I prefer usenet to most web based fora but one only needs to read alt.cheese to realize that something is fundamentally wrong there and I am not quite sure what. The only thing that comes to mind is that there are already too many cheese groups and we need to consolidate and not expand. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From hombrewdude at yahoo.com Thu Jan 3 00:26:33 2008 From: hombrewdude at yahoo.com (hombrewdude) Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 23:26:33 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] How much mold on Stilton? In-Reply-To: <46EC16CC.4000409@yahoo.com> References: <46EB57DA.1050802@yahoo.com> <008501c7f7bb$6593f990$6a4dd458@tissemand> <46EC16CC.4000409@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <477C7209.7090900@yahoo.com> It is now 3 months later. My water pan method did not seem to work, the cheese started to get too dry. I moved them to a ziplock bag that I left 50% open. The cheese is also been stored rather cool 45-50F The mold is black and white. Am I still ok? I can post pictures if it will help? Should I scrape and mold? Wipe with salt? Poke holes?? hombrewdude wrote: > This is 3 weeks old now. > I just wonder if I have too much mold? > Should I wide it with salt water? > >> >> >> >>> I tried to make my first mold type cheese. >>> >>> I used a store bought culture and added it to the milk. >>> >>> I now have 2 1lb rounds of cheese on a grate over a pan of water in >>> a 50F fridge. >>> >>> The green fuzzy mold is over 75% of the surface. >>> >>> What should I do next? >>> >> >> How old is it ? >> >> Generally speaking, "furry" cheeses start to soften when they are >> ready to eat.. >> >> The older it gets, the stronger it tastes.. >> >> /peter >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Cheese mailing list >> Cheese at hbd.org >> http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese >> >> >> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20080102/1c6d2837/attachment-0003.html From arf at mc.net Thu Jan 3 08:41:47 2008 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 05:41:47 -0800 Subject: [Cheese] How much mold on Stilton? In-Reply-To: <477C7209.7090900@yahoo.com> References: <46EB57DA.1050802@yahoo.com> <008501c7f7bb$6593f990$6a4dd458@tissemand> <46EC16CC.4000409@yahoo.com> <477C7209.7090900@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <477CE61B.5050300@mc.net> hombrewdude wrote: > It is now 3 months later. > My water pan method did not seem to work, the cheese started to get too > dry. The water pan method never works. It is a bit of nonsense that keeps being repeated over and over. > I moved them to a ziplock bag that I left 50% open. > The cheese is also been stored rather cool 45-50F If it spent 3 months drying out, it may never recover. You must control the humidity from the beginning. As described on my Stilton page, the best way to do that is in a plastic shoe box with the lid open a bit. Get a hygrometer and monitor the humidity till you get a feel for what it takes. > The mold is black and white. Probably not black. White, orange, blue, green... all normal. > > Am I still ok? Taste it and find out. > Should I scrape and mold? Wipe with salt? Poke holes?? Start over and do it right as per my recipe for example. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From bobbin_lace at dswebnet.com Thu Jan 3 12:41:33 2008 From: bobbin_lace at dswebnet.com (Barbara Witt) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 09:41:33 -0800 Subject: [Cheese] making goat milk cheese? Message-ID: <001401c84e2f$e25db2c0$6401a8c0@conrad3igswqs1> Where can I find information on making goat milk cheese? Thanks, Barb -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20080103/5ca31807/attachment-0003.html From Mark.Bignell at hq.dodea.edu Thu Jan 3 12:53:19 2008 From: Mark.Bignell at hq.dodea.edu (Bignell, Mark S CIV DoDEA) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 12:53:19 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] making goat milk cheese? In-Reply-To: <001401c84e2f$e25db2c0$6401a8c0@conrad3igswqs1> References: <001401c84e2f$e25db2c0$6401a8c0@conrad3igswqs1> Message-ID: <5AC1A3E66A01DC42BBC6F06A92A69F0D018F79CD@HQ-EX2.hq.ds.dodea.edu> Hi Barb, I like www.fias-cofarm.com I made some really great cheeses using their recipes. Mark ________________________________ From: cheese-bounces at hbd.org [mailto:cheese-bounces at hbd.org] On Behalf Of Barbara Witt Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 12:42 PM To: cheese at hbd.org Subject: [Cheese] making goat milk cheese? Where can I find information on making goat milk cheese? Thanks, Barb -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20080103/c57440b7/attachment-0003.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 4488 bytes Desc: image001.gif Url : http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20080103/c57440b7/attachment-0003.gif From hombrewdude at yahoo.com Thu Jan 3 17:38:57 2008 From: hombrewdude at yahoo.com (hombrewdude) Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 16:38:57 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] How much mold on Stilton? In-Reply-To: <477CE61B.5050300@mc.net> References: <46EB57DA.1050802@yahoo.com> <008501c7f7bb$6593f990$6a4dd458@tissemand> <46EC16CC.4000409@yahoo.com> <477C7209.7090900@yahoo.com> <477CE61B.5050300@mc.net> Message-ID: <477D6401.3090300@yahoo.com> So I should just throw this away??? That doesn't make much sense... Why would my ziplock bag be any different then your plastic shoe box method? Jack Schmidling wrote: > hombrewdude wrote: > >> It is now 3 months later. >> My water pan method did not seem to work, the cheese started to get too >> dry. >> > > > The water pan method never works. It is a bit of nonsense that keeps > being repeated over and over. > > >> I moved them to a ziplock bag that I left 50% open. >> The cheese is also been stored rather cool 45-50F >> > > If it spent 3 months drying out, it may never recover. You must control > the humidity from the beginning. > > As described on my Stilton page, the best way to do that is in a plastic > shoe box with the lid open a bit. Get a hygrometer and monitor the > humidity till you get a feel for what it takes. > > > >> The mold is black and white. >> > > Probably not black. White, orange, blue, green... all normal. > >> Am I still ok? >> > > Taste it and find out. > > >> Should I scrape and mold? Wipe with salt? Poke holes?? >> > > Start over and do it right as per my recipe for example. > > js > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20080103/79f73872/attachment-0003.html From landonmorgan at gmail.com Thu Jan 3 16:56:25 2008 From: landonmorgan at gmail.com (Landon Morgan) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 16:56:25 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] Any interest in a Cheesemaking BBS? Message-ID: <733b93bf0801031356u7b4f1ad0n8cbfcae58bebac23@mail.gmail.com> Just wondering- the mailing list concept is kinda dated. I have the domain name talkcheese.com and could easily put up a bulletin board system. This would allow the information and data to be a bit more accessible. Any interest in this? Let me know. landonmorgan at gmail.com -- Landon S. Morgan St. Augustine, FL ___________________________ This email account is used for personal and business communications by the sender. All correspondence contained herein should be considered a privileged communication between recipient and sender. Contents of this email shall not be released or retransmitted without the explicit consent of both parties. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20080103/7afea6fe/attachment-0003.html From arf at mc.net Thu Jan 3 18:43:53 2008 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 15:43:53 -0800 Subject: [Cheese] Any interest in a Cheesemaking BBS? In-Reply-To: <733b93bf0801031356u7b4f1ad0n8cbfcae58bebac23@mail.gmail.com> References: <733b93bf0801031356u7b4f1ad0n8cbfcae58bebac23@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <477D7339.3040203@mc.net> Landon Morgan wrote: > Just wondering- the mailing list concept is kinda dated. So is money but it works just fine. > I have the domain name talkcheese.com and could easily put up a > bulletin board system. This would allow the information and data to be a bit > more accessible. I think you need to be a bit more explicit. What is a bulletin board system? What does it offer better than this? The community is small enough... what is gained by spreading it thinner? I will also bet that there will be ads and commercials on your BBS? js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From arf at mc.net Thu Jan 3 18:48:40 2008 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 15:48:40 -0800 Subject: [Cheese] How much mold on Stilton? In-Reply-To: <477D6401.3090300@yahoo.com> References: <46EB57DA.1050802@yahoo.com> <008501c7f7bb$6593f990$6a4dd458@tissemand> <46EC16CC.4000409@yahoo.com> <477C7209.7090900@yahoo.com> <477CE61B.5050300@mc.net> <477D6401.3090300@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <477D7458.4040809@mc.net> hombrewdude wrote: > So I should just throw this away??? > > That doesn't make much sense... That was your idea. I would taste it first. You might like it.. just change the name if it's good. > Why would my ziplock bag be any different then your plastic shoe box > method? It's not if you can control the opening and humidity with it but the shoebox seems easier. However, you implied that you started the bag treatment 3 months too late. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From arf at mc.net Thu Jan 3 18:54:18 2008 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 15:54:18 -0800 Subject: [Cheese] making goat milk cheese? In-Reply-To: <001401c84e2f$e25db2c0$6401a8c0@conrad3igswqs1> References: <001401c84e2f$e25db2c0$6401a8c0@conrad3igswqs1> Message-ID: <477D75AA.4030304@mc.net> Barbara Witt wrote: > Where can I find information on making goat milk cheese? There really is little difference in the process but goat milk usually has less fat so hard cheeses do not generally work out as well. However, it is easy to correct this problem if you add extra cream to the milk. This doesn't help much is you raise only goats and want to be self sufficient but life is not fair. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From zymy66 at yahoo.com Thu Jan 3 19:09:32 2008 From: zymy66 at yahoo.com (the zymurgist) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 16:09:32 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Cheese] parmesan cheese recipe In-Reply-To: <477D7458.4040809@mc.net> Message-ID: <853297.27121.qm@web35502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> does any one have a good recipe and process for making parmesan cheese? Thank you ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs From heidi at slowboil.com Thu Jan 3 19:20:00 2008 From: heidi at slowboil.com (Heidi Angove) Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 10:50:00 +1030 Subject: [Cheese] Any interest in a Cheesemaking BBS? In-Reply-To: <477D7339.3040203@mc.net> References: <733b93bf0801031356u7b4f1ad0n8cbfcae58bebac23@mail.gmail.com> <477D7339.3040203@mc.net> Message-ID: <1bb7ad130801031620q4898ba17n89801060425c420f@mail.gmail.com> I'm pretty happy with a mailing list. This way I get information slowly and without searching. I'm just a lurker but love being a part of the list. I'm yet to start really making anything beyond marscapone and ricotta and am learning so much before I take the big leap that I wouldn't have thought to search for or ask .. So a big thank you to you all for sharing your knowledge and please don't let the list disappear. On 1/4/08, Jack Schmidling wrote: > > Landon Morgan wrote: > > Just wondering- the mailing list concept is kinda dated. > > So is money but it works just fine. > > > I have the domain name talkcheese.com and could easily put up a > > bulletin board system. This would allow the information and data to be a > bit > > more accessible. > > I think you need to be a bit more explicit. What is a bulletin board > system? What does it offer better than this? The community is small > enough... what is gained by spreading it thinner? > > I will also bet that there will be ads and commercials on your BBS? > > js > > > -- > PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm > Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20080104/3db06f76/attachment-0003.html From jabbott at abbotts.org Thu Jan 3 18:32:19 2008 From: jabbott at abbotts.org (jabbott@abbotts.org) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 17:32:19 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Cheese] Any interest in a Cheesemaking BBS? In-Reply-To: <733b93bf0801031356u7b4f1ad0n8cbfcae58bebac23@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I assume you are talking about a forum? Like phpBB or something? I would be willing to help out with that. The nice thing about going that route rather than the list is it is easier to search old posts. --ja On Thu, 3 Jan 2008, Landon Morgan wrote: > Just wondering- the mailing list concept is kinda dated. > I have the domain name talkcheese.com and could easily put up a > bulletin board system. This would allow the information and data to be a bit > more accessible. > Any interest in this? > Let me know. > > landonmorgan at gmail.com > > -- From bac at NebrWesleyan.edu Thu Jan 3 19:36:27 2008 From: bac at NebrWesleyan.edu (Barbara Cornelius) Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 18:36:27 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] making goat milk cheese? In-Reply-To: <477D75AA.4030304@mc.net> References: <001401c84e2f$e25db2c0$6401a8c0@conrad3igswqs1> <477D75AA.4030304@mc.net> Message-ID: <20080103183627.10mw5ahoasg480oc@webmail.nebrwesleyan.edu> I'm sorry, but this is just not true. Usually goat milk has a little *more* fat than cow milk; 10 grams of fat per 8oz goat milk compared to 8 to 9 grams of fat for the same amount of cow milk. For more information about that, see this website: http://fiascofarm.com/dairy/goatmilk-breakdown.html Fias Co Farm's website is also a good place to find out about making soft and hard goat cheeses. There are many, many traditional hard cheeses made from goat milk. They are no more difficult than cow milk cheeses, but you do need to adjust your 'cooking' temperatures down somewhat, and use differing amounts of rennet. It all depends on what sort of cheese you ware wanting to make. I have found a great resource of information and help to be this Yahoo group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GoatCheesePlus/ It's made up of dairy owners, goat cheese makers, beginning and advanced. I think you'll find it useful. I hope this helps! Barbara Quoting Jack Schmidling : > Barbara Witt wrote: >> Where can I find information on making goat milk cheese? > > There really is little difference in the process but goat milk usually > has less fat so hard cheeses do not generally work out as well. > However, it is easy to correct this problem if you add extra cream to > the milk. > > This doesn't help much is you raise only goats and want to be self > sufficient but life is not fair. > > js > > -- > PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm > Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20080103/a0907dcf/attachment-0003.html From arf at mc.net Thu Jan 3 20:10:52 2008 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 17:10:52 -0800 Subject: [Cheese] making goat milk cheese? In-Reply-To: <20080103183627.10mw5ahoasg480oc@webmail.nebrwesleyan.edu> References: <001401c84e2f$e25db2c0$6401a8c0@conrad3igswqs1> <477D75AA.4030304@mc.net> <20080103183627.10mw5ahoasg480oc@webmail.nebrwesleyan.edu> Message-ID: <477D879C.4070304@mc.net> Barbara Cornelius wrote: > > > I'm sorry, but this is just not true. Usually goat milk has a little > *more* fat than cow milk; I stand corrected but there is something about the fat that makes it difficult to produce a cheddar type cheese. Something to do with the globule size which makes it similar to homogenized cow milk. Is it not true that one can not separate the fat with a separator to make cream and butter with goat milk? I confess limited experience with goat milk and not having milk goats, the cost makes it not worth further investigation. I made two batches from fresh goat milk and they both turned out hard as bricks. Nice grating cheese but no joy. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From bac at NebrWesleyan.edu Thu Jan 3 22:17:48 2008 From: bac at NebrWesleyan.edu (Barbara Cornelius) Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 21:17:48 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] making goat milk cheese? In-Reply-To: <477D879C.4070304@mc.net> References: <001401c84e2f$e25db2c0$6401a8c0@conrad3igswqs1> <477D75AA.4030304@mc.net> <20080103183627.10mw5ahoasg480oc@webmail.nebrwesleyan.edu> <477D879C.4070304@mc.net> Message-ID: <20080103211748.9raa48viss88cs00@webmail.nebrwesleyan.edu> Quoting Jack Schmidling : > Barbara Cornelius wrote: >> >> >> ? ?I'm sorry, but this is just not true. Usually goat milk has a? little >> *more* fat than cow milk; > > I stand corrected but there is something about the fat that makes it > difficult to produce a cheddar type cheese.? Something to do with the > globule size which makes it similar to homogenized cow milk. > > Is it not true that one can not separate the fat with a separator to > make cream and butter with goat milk? > > I confess limited experience with goat milk and not having milk goats, > the cost makes it not worth further investigation.? I made two batches > from fresh goat milk and they both turned out hard as bricks.? Nice > grating cheese but no joy. Goat milk is naturally homogenized. It has smaller fat globules, although the milk can be separated from the cream with a separator. If you let a jar of it set for a couple of days, you can see that some of the milkfat does rise to the top. There are several makers of really good goat cheddar, although I have no idea exactly what they have to do differently from cow cheddar to make it.? I have a local source for goat milk, and I've used it to make 50/50 goat-cow hard cheeses, but not cheddar. What I don't know about goat milk and goat cheeses FAR exceeds what I do know, however :) Try Fias Co Farm's site, and definitely look at this site: http://biology.clc.uc.edu/Fankhauser/Cheese/Cheese.html He has goats and is also a biology prof who teaches his students about fermentation, yeasts, etc. by making cheese, beer, bread, etc. He uses his goats' milk in his cheeses, and puts up all kinds of recipes. Barbara ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20080103/e6a548ca/attachment-0003.html From landonmorgan at gmail.com Thu Jan 3 22:45:25 2008 From: landonmorgan at gmail.com (Landon Morgan) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 22:45:25 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] Any interest in a Cheesemaking BBS? In-Reply-To: <477D7339.3040203@mc.net> References: <733b93bf0801031356u7b4f1ad0n8cbfcae58bebac23@mail.gmail.com> <477D7339.3040203@mc.net> Message-ID: <733b93bf0801031945m3ece3c45l509555c0df0f68fe@mail.gmail.com> "So is money but it works just fine." There's a difference between something that "works" and something that "works well" "I think you need to be a bit more explicit. What is a bulletin board system? What does it offer better than this? The community is small enough... what is gained by spreading it thinner?" A bulletin board system is a format for discussion that allows the topics, pictures and conversations to be viewed as their own medium in a "forum setting" rather than as a series of unique, topical email communiques sent to subscribing participants. It wouldn't serve to "spread the community thinner" but rather would serve to start a forum and community with a base of knowledgeable people- the people of this mailing list- that could eventually grow larger. Fact is, hamstringing the community to a mailing list isn't exactly conducive to growth. Cheesemaking is a narrow enough field of interest that it's probably best to remain reasonably progressive as a community rather than lodged in old formats with wildly inferior functionality. I envision a BBS system where cheesemakers from all over the world can come together to post pictures and share knowledge with each other. As far as ads, maybe there would be, but I can assure you, this isn't a venture for profit and almost certainly wouldn't ever be lucrative. There just aren't enough cheesemakers out there to hope for a payday as a result of this, but there are enough out there to warrant a new, updated format for discussion. Anyway, that's my case for it. I would welcome any other opinions. On Jan 3, 2008 6:43 PM, Jack Schmidling wrote: > Landon Morgan wrote: > > Just wondering- the mailing list concept is kinda dated. > > So is money but it works just fine. > > > I have the domain name talkcheese.com and could easily put up a > > bulletin board system. This would allow the information and data to be a > bit > > more accessible. > > I think you need to be a bit more explicit. What is a bulletin board > system? What does it offer better than this? The community is small > enough... what is gained by spreading it thinner? > > I will also bet that there will be ads and commercials on your BBS? > > js > > > -- > PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm > Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > -- Landon S. Morgan St. Augustine, FL ___________________________ This email account is used for personal and business communications by the sender. All correspondence contained herein should be considered a privileged communication between recipient and sender. Contents of this email shall not be released or retransmitted without the explicit consent of both parties. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20080103/68aaba56/attachment-0003.html From landonmorgan at gmail.com Thu Jan 3 22:50:10 2008 From: landonmorgan at gmail.com (Landon Morgan) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 22:50:10 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] Any interest in a Cheesemaking BBS? In-Reply-To: References: <733b93bf0801031356u7b4f1ad0n8cbfcae58bebac23@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <733b93bf0801031950h40dc1ab9t2159d4b73a8edb82@mail.gmail.com> And as an aside... it wouldn't make the list "disappear". The list could continue as it pleased. It would simply provide a format with modern functionality that would allow us all to discuss this stuff in a way that is very efficient. The forum would be very, very small to start off with and would have extremely limited activity. That's for sure. On Jan 3, 2008 6:32 PM, < jabbott at abbotts.org> wrote: > > I assume you are talking about a forum? Like phpBB or something? I would > be willing to help out with that. > > The nice thing about going that route rather than the list is it is easier > to search old posts. > > --ja > > On Thu, 3 Jan 2008, Landon Morgan wrote: > > > Just wondering- the mailing list concept is kinda dated. > > I have the domain name talkcheese.com and could easily put up a > > bulletin board system. This would allow the information and data to be a > bit > > more accessible. > > Any interest in this? > > Let me know. > > > > landonmorgan at gmail.com > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > -- Landon S. Morgan St. Augustine, FL ___________________________ This email account is used for personal and business communications by the sender. All correspondence contained herein should be considered a privileged communication between recipient and sender. Contents of this email shall not be released or retransmitted without the explicit consent of both parties. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20080103/335f674c/attachment-0003.html From arf at mc.net Thu Jan 3 23:41:05 2008 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 20:41:05 -0800 Subject: [Cheese] Any interest in a Cheesemaking BBS? In-Reply-To: <733b93bf0801031945m3ece3c45l509555c0df0f68fe@mail.gmail.com> References: <733b93bf0801031356u7b4f1ad0n8cbfcae58bebac23@mail.gmail.com> <477D7339.3040203@mc.net> <733b93bf0801031945m3ece3c45l509555c0df0f68fe@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <477DB8E1.3060108@mc.net> Landon Morgan wrote: > A bulletin board system is a format for discussion that allows the topics, > pictures and conversations to be viewed as their own medium in a "forum > setting"...... What is a forum setting? >rather than as a series of unique, topical email communiques sent > to subscribing participants. Seems like what a forum is all about. I still do not understand what it is you are after that isn't covered in this format. >It wouldn't serve to "spread the community > thinner" but rather would serve to start a forum and community with a base > of knowledgeable people- the people of this mailing list- that could > eventually grow larger. How could it not spread us thinner? What you describe is exactly what we do here. > Fact is, hamstringing the community to a mailing list isn't exactly > conducive to growth. How's that hamstringing work? And quality of information is far more important than growth unless you are interested in selling advertising. >Cheesemaking is a narrow enough field of interest that > it's probably best to remain reasonably progressive as a community rather > than lodged in old formats with wildly inferior functionality. Psychobabble. > I envision a BBS system where cheesemakers from all over the world can come > together to post pictures and share knowledge with each other. That's what we do here. > As far as ads, maybe there would be, but I can assure you, this isn't a > venture for profit and almost certainly wouldn't ever be lucrative..... I am having a hard time coming up with another reason why someone would purchase a domain name such as talkcheese.com and then enter an existing list and suggest we all move to your totally modern and updated forum. Nor do I understand why anyone would move to be exposed to advertising. When nothing makes sense,.... follow the money trail. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From jabbott at abbotts.org Fri Jan 4 00:52:45 2008 From: jabbott at abbotts.org (jabbott@abbotts.org) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 23:52:45 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Cheese] Any interest in a Cheesemaking BBS? In-Reply-To: <477DB8E1.3060108@mc.net> Message-ID: I run a forum for people who heat their houses with corn. You can take a look at it at http://forum.iburncorn.com if you want to see what a forum could be like. At least it would kind of give you an idea of what this guy is proposing. The nice thing about it is it is easy to go into it and search for past messages. It is easy for people to tell about what they are doing. Pictures are a plus. We have a guy right now talking to the list about the dryness and quantity of mold on his cheese. Wouldn't it be nice to see a picture? I feel like Jack, you have a lot of really great information and knowlege it would be wonderful to get into one spot where it is easy to find. The list serv format is hard for new people to use and understand. I think Landon is correct you could atract some new users, get some additional opinions, and I know I would learn lots by having a forum format. Domain names are cheap to purchase. ~$30 a year, maybe less at some of the discount registration places. As far as following the money trail, well, that would be a pretty short trail. Pay per click advertising is a great way to make coffee money, but not much more. I am sure he could cover his $30/year but I wouldn't bet on much more. People just don't click on the ads the way the did years ago. In a few years, if it really takes off, he might get some sponsership money. ...not exactly something you retire on either... I started my corn burner's forum because I had just bought a burner, the instruction manual totally sucked, and there wasn't a whole lot of information on the net about how to run the darned thing. I started to write down some of my experiences, as I sat down in the basement watching this heater plug up and have all sorts of other troubles. I started the forum because I seem to have no skill with fire, but great skills with computers. I figured if I contributed what I could to the community, I could lurk and listen to all the people who knew more than I did about heating with corn. It has worked out great for me. And, I have about 3000 members who visit my forum and ask questions, answer questions, and generally chat about the topic they love. --ja On Thu, 3 Jan 2008, Jack Schmidling wrote: > Landon Morgan wrote: > > > A bulletin board system is a format for discussion that allows the topics, > > pictures and conversations to be viewed as their own medium in a "forum > > setting"...... > > What is a forum setting? > > >rather than as a series of unique, topical email communiques sent > > to subscribing participants. > > Seems like what a forum is all about. I still do not understand what it > is you are after that isn't covered in this format. > > >It wouldn't serve to "spread the community > > thinner" but rather would serve to start a forum and community with a base > > of knowledgeable people- the people of this mailing list- that could > > eventually grow larger. > > How could it not spread us thinner? What you describe is exactly what > we do here. > > > Fact is, hamstringing the community to a mailing list isn't exactly > > conducive to growth. > > How's that hamstringing work? And quality of information is far more > important than growth unless you are interested in selling advertising. > > >Cheesemaking is a narrow enough field of interest that > > it's probably best to remain reasonably progressive as a community rather > > than lodged in old formats with wildly inferior functionality. > > Psychobabble. > > > I envision a BBS system where cheesemakers from all over the world can come > > together to post pictures and share knowledge with each other. > > That's what we do here. > > > As far as ads, maybe there would be, but I can assure you, this isn't a > > venture for profit and almost certainly wouldn't ever be lucrative..... > > I am having a hard time coming up with another reason why someone would > purchase a domain name such as talkcheese.com and then enter an existing > list and suggest we all move to your totally modern and updated forum. > Nor do I understand why anyone would move to be exposed to advertising. > > When nothing makes sense,.... follow the money trail. > > js > > -- From mila.bulic at gmail.com Fri Jan 4 07:50:44 2008 From: mila.bulic at gmail.com (mila bulic) Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 09:50:44 -0300 Subject: [Cheese] new to cheese making Message-ID: I am new to cheese making and new to this group. I have been reading the threads and have found that there is a great deal of diversity with respect to experience in this group so I suspect I can learn a lot. I was not interested in making my own cheese before but since I have moved to northern Chile I have discovered that if I want cheese I am going to have to make it myself. We only have two kinds here--white and white--and I can barely tell the difference (one is gauda and the other is montecuso).... since I am a bit of a rat and love variety in my cheese, making cheese myself seems to be a good idea. Well, it is a good idea until you start trying to make it with all the wrong ingredients. There is a lot of information on the web on the subject and I have read a lot of it but I still have a lot of questions so I will begin to ask them--I didn't bother before because I did not have a source of fresh milk; living in the Atacama Desert is not exactly good grazing land, hahaha, and there are only two small, fertile valleys where it would be possible to get the milk--otherwise we only have UHT milk and I learned the hard way that you can't make cheese with that. Anyway, the first of my questions, before I waste any more of the culture that I purchased in the States, has to do with cultures. I can make the culture known as MMA myself as well as the thermophyllic culture--but how can I culture the MMW? It is an entirely different bacteria strain. Should I just buy some from the States and then try to culture it on my own? If so, how? If someone knows the answer to this first, of many questions to come, I would appreciate your help. Thanks a lot! Mila -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20080104/6920344c/attachment-0003.html From mila.bulic at gmail.com Fri Jan 4 07:56:07 2008 From: mila.bulic at gmail.com (mila bulic) Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 09:56:07 -0300 Subject: [Cheese] making goat milk cheese? In-Reply-To: <20080103211748.9raa48viss88cs00@webmail.nebrwesleyan.edu> References: <001401c84e2f$e25db2c0$6401a8c0@conrad3igswqs1> <477D75AA.4030304@mc.net> <20080103183627.10mw5ahoasg480oc@webmail.nebrwesleyan.edu> <477D879C.4070304@mc.net> <20080103211748.9raa48viss88cs00@webmail.nebrwesleyan.edu> Message-ID: I read that you need to use calcium chloride in goat's milk in order to make a proper cheese... On Jan 4, 2008 12:17 AM, Barbara Cornelius wrote: > Quoting Jack Schmidling : > > > Barbara Cornelius wrote: > >> > >> > >> I'm sorry, but this is just not true. Usually goat milk has a little > >> *more* fat than cow milk; > > > > I stand corrected but there is something about the fat that makes it > > difficult to produce a cheddar type cheese. Something to do with the > > globule size which makes it similar to homogenized cow milk. > > > > Is it not true that one can not separate the fat with a separator to > > make cream and butter with goat milk? > > > > I confess limited experience with goat milk and not having milk goats, > > the cost makes it not worth further investigation. I made two batches > > from fresh goat milk and they both turned out hard as bricks. Nice > > grating cheese but no joy. > > Goat milk is naturally homogenized. It has smaller fat globules, although > the milk can be separated from the cream with a separator. If you let a jar > of it set for a couple of days, you can see that some of the milkfat does > rise to the top. > > There are several makers of really good goat cheddar, although I have no > idea exactly what they have to do differently from cow cheddar to make it. > I have a local source for goat milk, and I've used it to make 50/50 goat-cow > hard cheeses, but not cheddar. > > What I don't know about goat milk and goat cheeses FAR exceeds what I do > know, however :) Try Fias Co Farm's site, and definitely look at this site: > http://biology.clc.uc.edu/Fankhauser/Cheese/Cheese.html > > He has goats and is also a biology prof who teaches his students about > fermentation, yeasts, etc. by making cheese, beer, bread, etc. He uses his > goats' milk in his cheeses, and puts up all kinds of recipes. > > Barbara > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20080104/0115ee75/attachment-0003.html From arf at mc.net Fri Jan 4 08:51:48 2008 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2008 05:51:48 -0800 Subject: [Cheese] Testing 1 2 3 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <477E39F4.5060007@mc.net> As far as I know, there are no restrictions on attaching photos to messages other than the max allowable total message length which is 40k. The attached photo is only 7k so there is lots of latitude for photos. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: ccheese.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 7102 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20080104/5b845e73/ccheese-0003.jpg From hombrewdude at yahoo.com Fri Jan 4 09:12:58 2008 From: hombrewdude at yahoo.com (hombrewdude) Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2008 08:12:58 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] Testing 1 2 3 In-Reply-To: <477E39F4.5060007@mc.net> References: <477E39F4.5060007@mc.net> Message-ID: <477E3EEA.7080106@yahoo.com> Ok on my end.... Jack Schmidling wrote: > As far as I know, there are no restrictions on attaching photos to > messages other than the max allowable total message length which is 40k. > > The attached photo is only 7k so there is lots of latitude for photos. > > js > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20080104/f5d8598a/attachment-0003.html From chapka at yahoo.com Fri Jan 4 09:14:12 2008 From: chapka at yahoo.com (Christopher Hapka) Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 06:14:12 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Cheese] Forum Message-ID: <66129.39048.qm@web55207.mail.re4.yahoo.com> In general, I prefer forums to mailing lists, although I read both. Forums tend to allow a broader and somewhat more focused discussion. One suggestion: instead of limiting this to cheese, why not put up a more general fermented foods forum? The nice thing about a forum is that people who are only interested in cheesemaking could limit their reading to that, but people also interested in home pickling, sausage making, saurkrauting, vinegarmaking, and so on (and I assume there's a fair amount of crossover) could also participate in those topics. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping From arf at mc.net Fri Jan 4 09:16:52 2008 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2008 06:16:52 -0800 Subject: [Cheese] Any interest in a Cheesemaking BBS? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <477E3FD4.1070503@mc.net> jabbott at abbotts.org wrote: > I run a forum for people who heat their houses with corn. You can > take a look at it at http://forum.iburncorn.com if you want to see > what a forum could be like. At least it would kind of give you an > idea of what this guy is proposing. Now take a look at http://www.talkcheese.com/ and see what he is proposing. It's wall to wall advertising. >The nice thing about it is it is > easy to go into it and search for past messages. How is it easier than searching the archives of this list? > We > have a guy right now talking to the list about the dryness and > quantity of mold on his cheese. Wouldn't it be nice to see a > picture? All he has to do is post it as along as he obeys the max message restriction which can be changed but I see no need. > As far as following the money trail, well, that would be a pretty > short trail. Pay per click advertising is a great way to make coffee > money, but not much more. I am sure he could cover his $30/year but > I wouldn't bet on much more. People just don't click on the ads the > way the did years ago. In a few years, if it really takes off, he > might get some sponsership money. ...not exactly something you > retire on either... Then why do it? What is the point in annoying readers if there is no payback? If he is so interested in cheesemaking, where are all his postings to this list? Sorry but I read his posting as trolling for subscribers to his platform for advertising. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From bbowler at bigelow.org Fri Jan 4 09:50:45 2008 From: bbowler at bigelow.org (Bruce Bowler) Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 09:50:45 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] Forum In-Reply-To: <66129.39048.qm@web55207.mail.re4.yahoo.com> References: <66129.39048.qm@web55207.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20080104095045.e7c0b8f1.bbowler@bigelow.org> On Fri, 4 Jan 2008 06:14:12 -0800 (PST) Christopher Hapka put fingers to keyboard and said: > In general, I prefer forums to mailing lists, although I read both. In general, I prefer mailing lists to fora. One reason I prefer mailing lists is I can keep (and search) a local copy of the traffic on the list and, since it's my copy of the messages, I can delete all of the extra drek that inevitably occurs. If it's a forum-only interface, all that garbage is ALSO kept, or we all rely on one individuals opinion of what's worth keeping. > Forums tend to allow a broader and somewhat more focused discussion. How? "broader" and "focused" tend to be at alternate ends of a spectrum. Bruce -- +-------------------+---------------------------------------------------+ Bruce Bowler | Our days are not problems to be solved, but reality 1.207.633.9600 | to be lived. - Anonymous bbowler at bigelow.org | +-------------------+---------------------------------------------------+ From arf at mc.net Fri Jan 4 10:13:06 2008 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2008 07:13:06 -0800 Subject: [Cheese] making goat milk cheese? In-Reply-To: References: <001401c84e2f$e25db2c0$6401a8c0@conrad3igswqs1> <477D75AA.4030304@mc.net> <20080103183627.10mw5ahoasg480oc@webmail.nebrwesleyan.edu> <477D879C.4070304@mc.net> <20080103211748.9raa48viss88cs00@webmail.nebrwesleyan.edu> Message-ID: <477E4D02.7040808@mc.net> mila bulic wrote: > I read that you need to use calcium chloride in goat's milk in order to make > a proper cheese... According to Kosikowski, any milk that is not still warm from the animal needs calcium chloride. This is no doubt true in a theoretical sense but seems a bit of a reach in the real world. I never used it with fresh milk but it does seem to help firm up the curd when using homo milk. This would indicate that the same could be true for goat milk. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From derekbradford at gmail.com Fri Jan 4 10:22:19 2008 From: derekbradford at gmail.com (Derek Bradford) Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 00:22:19 +0900 Subject: [Cheese] Any interest in a Cheesemaking BBS? In-Reply-To: <477E3FD4.1070503@mc.net> References: <477E3FD4.1070503@mc.net> Message-ID: <799e8cd60801040722w36af4847p4d1db9ce25bce41f@mail.gmail.com> On Jan 4, 2008 11:16 PM, Jack Schmidling wrote: > jabbott at abbotts.org wrote: > > I run a forum for people who heat their houses with corn. You can > > take a look at it at http://forum.iburncorn.com if you want to see > > what a forum could be like. At least it would kind of give you an > > idea of what this guy is proposing. > > Now take a look at http://www.talkcheese.com/ and see what he is > proposing. It's wall to wall advertising. I have to correct you here, Jack. That page you see is actually controlled by his hosting company, GoDaddy.com. He has simply bought the domain, but he hasn't done anything with it yet. Until a person does something with a domain (in this case, probably paying for another year or so of hosting or registration), the hosting company keeps them active as springboards for ads. In other words, the ads you see aren't his responsibility, and may not be anything like what he has in mind. Most forums don't look that way from my experience. --Derek -- Every path but your own is the path of fate. --Thoreau -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20080105/fee1de66/attachment-0003.html From nate at allee.us Fri Jan 4 10:43:23 2008 From: nate at allee.us (Nathan Allee) Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 10:43:23 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] Cheesemaking BBS Message-ID: <44b5f4210801040743v6c66987l8655928c8c2f83c6@mail.gmail.com> >take a look at http://www.talkcheese.com/ and see what he is proposing. It's wall >to wall advertising. Jack, that's called a parking page. It's the default page put up by the registrar (in this case GoDaddy) until the owner of that particular domain name decides to put up something of his own. >Then why do it? What is the point in annoying readers if there is no payback? It's no more annoying than personal ads in an email signature line. >If he is so interested in cheesemaking, where are all his postings to this list? >Sorry but I read his posting as trolling for subscribers to his platform for >advertising. I agree that it could possibly be trolling, this is the internet after all. Or he could be a lurker, like I usually am, who prefers forums to mailing lists. If he is trolling then he's a rank amateur. A troller who knows what he's doing would have already had the forum up and running and populated with a bunch of fake users etc. All IMHO. +Nate ---------- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20080104/19f4af8c/attachment-0003.html From bac at NebrWesleyan.edu Fri Jan 4 10:50:20 2008 From: bac at NebrWesleyan.edu (Barbara Cornelius) Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2008 09:50:20 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] making goat milk cheese? In-Reply-To: References: <001401c84e2f$e25db2c0$6401a8c0@conrad3igswqs1> <477D75AA.4030304@mc.net> <20080103183627.10mw5ahoasg480oc@webmail.nebrwesleyan.edu> <477D879C.4070304@mc.net> <20080103211748.9raa48viss88cs00@webmail.nebrwesleyan.edu> Message-ID: <20080104095020.oclkobpu880gw8cc@webmail.nebrwesleyan.edu> You *could* use it, to make a firmer curd. It's used in cow milk cheeses if the milk has been homogenized and/or pasteurized. But I don't think it's absolutely necessary. Quoting mila bulic : > I read that you need to use calcium chloride in goat's milk in order to make > a proper cheese... > > On Jan 4, 2008 12:17 AM, Barbara Cornelius wrote: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20080104/5b18f0d4/attachment-0003.html From nate at allee.us Fri Jan 4 09:52:01 2008 From: nate at allee.us (Nathan Allee) Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 09:52:01 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] Cheesemaking BBS Message-ID: <44b5f4210801040652l3d3d3c29y93fb30dec35135f4@mail.gmail.com> I would love to have a dedicated cheese makers forum. I have been struggling thru mailing lists on several subjects for years and have never been satisfied with it. Maybe it's just me being too dumb or impatient to really learn how to make a mailing list work for me. On the other hand, the forum is a highly efficient way to organize a discussion on any subject and has a very low learning curve. All of the forums I belong to also incorporate the best features of a mailing list. I'll "make do" with a mailing list but I'd take a forum over a mailing list any day. The suspicion that Landon is just out to make some $ isn't really very logical. Even a cursory investigation would show that forums with lot's of advertising are also WILDLY popular (as in tens of thousands of members.) But wildly popular forums do not necessarily always have lots of ads. Landon, make the forum and I'll be the first to sign up (that is, as long as you don't load it down with tons of ads.) *grin* +Nate -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20080104/e1fcc111/attachment-0003.html From jabbott at abbotts.org Fri Jan 4 11:02:55 2008 From: jabbott at abbotts.org (jabbott@abbotts.org) Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 10:02:55 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Cheese] Any interest in a Cheesemaking BBS? In-Reply-To: <477E3FD4.1070503@mc.net> Message-ID: That is the parked page. Not the same thing at all as what a web site or web forum would be. --ja On Fri, 4 Jan 2008, Jack Schmidling wrote: > jabbott at abbotts.org wrote: > > I run a forum for people who heat their houses with corn. You can > > take a look at it at http://forum.iburncorn.com if you want to see > > what a forum could be like. At least it would kind of give you an > > idea of what this guy is proposing. > > Now take a look at http://www.talkcheese.com/ and see what he is > proposing. It's wall to wall advertising. > > > >The nice thing about it is it is > > easy to go into it and search for past messages. > > How is it easier than searching the archives of this list? > > > We > > have a guy right now talking to the list about the dryness and > > quantity of mold on his cheese. Wouldn't it be nice to see a > > picture? > > > All he has to do is post it as along as he obeys the max message > restriction which can be changed but I see no need. > > > As far as following the money trail, well, that would be a pretty > > short trail. Pay per click advertising is a great way to make coffee > > money, but not much more. I am sure he could cover his $30/year but > > I wouldn't bet on much more. People just don't click on the ads the > > way the did years ago. In a few years, if it really takes off, he > > might get some sponsership money. ...not exactly something you > > retire on either... > > Then why do it? What is the point in annoying readers if there is no > payback? > > If he is so interested in cheesemaking, where are all his postings to > this list? Sorry but I read his posting as trolling for subscribers to > his platform for advertising. > > js > > -- From arf at mc.net Fri Jan 4 12:32:34 2008 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2008 09:32:34 -0800 Subject: [Cheese] Any interest in a Cheesemaking BBS? In-Reply-To: <799e8cd60801040722w36af4847p4d1db9ce25bce41f@mail.gmail.com> References: <477E3FD4.1070503@mc.net> <799e8cd60801040722w36af4847p4d1db9ce25bce41f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <477E6DB2.4050908@mc.net> Derek Bradford wrote: > I have to correct you here, Jack. In other words, the ads you see aren't his responsibility, and may not > be anything like what he has in mind. I understand but it makes the point of what the possibilities are and what so many of them really do look like. The fact that he already said it would include advertising is enough to keep me away. I do not like ads. My not so humble opinion. Personally, I prefer usenet to most web based fora but one only needs to read alt.cheese to realize that something is fundamentally wrong there and I am not quite sure what. The only thing that comes to mind is that there are already too many cheese groups and we need to consolidate and not expand. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From landonmorgan at gmail.com Fri Jan 4 14:42:16 2008 From: landonmorgan at gmail.com (Landon Morgan) Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 14:42:16 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] Any interest in a Cheesemaking BBS? In-Reply-To: <477E6DB2.4050908@mc.net> References: <477E3FD4.1070503@mc.net> <799e8cd60801040722w36af4847p4d1db9ce25bce41f@mail.gmail.com> <477E6DB2.4050908@mc.net> Message-ID: <733b93bf0801041142l5bc23125g7fbe225fe46b06c6@mail.gmail.com> Jack- your replies have been a bit insulting and it seems to me that you are naysaying to naysay. I won't bother arging any further with you- if you wish to participate, then you are absolutely welcome. If not, that's your decision. Sorry if anyone thinks I'm a troll. I'm just a lurker who found a recent interest in cheesemaking when InWineCountry did a segment on a winemaker who was also a cheesemaker and made a wine-cheese combo. I am just starting off with really basic stuff, so my knowledge base is pretty slim. I am, however, a long time internet participant who has seen the available technologies and mediums grow and noticed that there might be room for such a forum. I will start building the site this evening (I think I am going to use a free BBS service and then point the domain name to it) and should have it available by tomorrow. If anyone has any ideas for specific forums, please let me know and I'll be glad to make them. One thing I've learned as a long-time forum administrator is that it's best to keep new forums limited to broad areas of discussion, rather than creating forums for every possible variable of discussion, so I'd love to hear everyones ideas! Thanks Landon On Jan 4, 2008 12:32 PM, Jack Schmidling wrote: > Derek Bradford wrote: > > > I have to correct you here, Jack. In other words, the ads you see aren't > his responsibility, and may not > > be anything like what he has in mind. > > > I understand but it makes the point of what the possibilities are and > what so many of them really do look like. > > The fact that he already said it would include advertising is enough to > keep me away. I do not like ads. My not so humble opinion. > > Personally, I prefer usenet to most web based fora but one only needs to > read alt.cheese to realize that something is fundamentally wrong there > and I am not quite sure what. > > The only thing that comes to mind is that there are already too many > cheese groups and we need to consolidate and not expand. > > js > > -- > PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm > Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > -- Landon S. Morgan St. Augustine, FL ___________________________ This email account is used for personal and business communications by the sender. All correspondence contained herein should be considered a privileged communication between recipient and sender. Contents of this email shall not be released or retransmitted without the explicit consent of both parties. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20080104/8a6a8168/attachment-0002.html From landonmorgan at gmail.com Fri Jan 4 14:48:08 2008 From: landonmorgan at gmail.com (Landon Morgan) Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 14:48:08 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] Any interest in a Cheesemaking BBS? In-Reply-To: <733b93bf0801041142l5bc23125g7fbe225fe46b06c6@mail.gmail.com> References: <477E3FD4.1070503@mc.net> <799e8cd60801040722w36af4847p4d1db9ce25bce41f@mail.gmail.com> <477E6DB2.4050908@mc.net> <733b93bf0801041142l5bc23125g7fbe225fe46b06c6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <733b93bf0801041148y2eb71735se119ea73ef6589af@mail.gmail.com> Oh, and PS- I'll be glad to pledge to keep the forum advertising free for a period of time if anyone wishes. Really, a forum such as this wouldn't make anything in advertising revenues. If one day it were to grow into 1000+ participants and I had to move it to a pay site, then I might consider taking on a banner ad or two from cheesemaking supply places, but that's a long, long time off and to be honest, a forum like this may never get there. Landon On Jan 4, 2008 2:42 PM, Landon Morgan wrote: > Jack- your replies have been a bit insulting and it seems to me that you > are naysaying to naysay. I won't bother arging any further with you- if you > wish to participate, then you are absolutely welcome. If not, that's your > decision. > > Sorry if anyone thinks I'm a troll. > I'm just a lurker who found a recent interest in cheesemaking when > InWineCountry did a segment on a winemaker who was also a cheesemaker and > made a wine-cheese combo. > > I am just starting off with really basic stuff, so my knowledge base is > pretty slim. > I am, however, a long time internet participant who has seen the available > technologies and mediums grow and noticed that there might be room for such > a forum. > > I will start building the site this evening (I think I am going to use a > free BBS service and then point the domain name to it) and should have it > available by tomorrow. > If anyone has any ideas for specific forums, please let me know and I'll > be glad to make them. > One thing I've learned as a long-time forum administrator is that it's > best to keep new forums limited to broad areas of discussion, rather than > creating forums for every possible variable of discussion, so I'd love to > hear everyones ideas! > > Thanks > > Landon > > > On Jan 4, 2008 12:32 PM, Jack Schmidling wrote: > > > Derek Bradford wrote: > > > > > I have to correct you here, Jack. In other words, the ads you see > > aren't his responsibility, and may not > > > be anything like what he has in mind. > > > > > > I understand but it makes the point of what the possibilities are and > > what so many of them really do look like. > > > > The fact that he already said it would include advertising is enough to > > keep me away. I do not like ads. My not so humble opinion. > > > > Personally, I prefer usenet to most web based fora but one only needs to > > read alt.cheese to realize that something is fundamentally wrong there > > and I am not quite sure what. > > > > The only thing that comes to mind is that there are already too many > > cheese groups and we need to consolidate and not expand. > > > > js > > > > -- > > PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm > > Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver > > http://schmidling.com > > _______________________________________________ > > Cheese mailing list > > Cheese at hbd.org > > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > > > > > > -- > Landon S. Morgan > St. Augustine, FL > ___________________________ > This email account is used for personal and business communications by the > sender. All correspondence contained herein should be considered a > privileged communication between recipient and sender. Contents of this > email shall not be released or retransmitted without the explicit consent of > both parties. > -- Landon S. Morgan St. Augustine, FL ___________________________ This email account is used for personal and business communications by the sender. All correspondence contained herein should be considered a privileged communication between recipient and sender. Contents of this email shall not be released or retransmitted without the explicit consent of both parties. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20080104/d00eca1b/attachment-0002.html From landonmorgan at gmail.com Fri Jan 4 14:51:20 2008 From: landonmorgan at gmail.com (Landon Morgan) Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 14:51:20 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] Forum In-Reply-To: <20080104095045.e7c0b8f1.bbowler@bigelow.org> References: <66129.39048.qm@web55207.mail.re4.yahoo.com> <20080104095045.e7c0b8f1.bbowler@bigelow.org> Message-ID: <733b93bf0801041151r55f0a6d2oeafe8a6711de1638@mail.gmail.com> Bruce- "How? "broader" and "focused" tend to be at alternate ends of a spectrum." I was definitely unclear there. It has a broader functionality but with the ability to focus the discussions in a far more efficient fashion. On Jan 4, 2008 9:50 AM, Bruce Bowler wrote: > On Fri, 4 Jan 2008 06:14:12 -0800 (PST) > Christopher Hapka put fingers to keyboard and said: > > > In general, I prefer forums to mailing lists, although I read both. > > In general, I prefer mailing lists to fora. > > One reason I prefer mailing lists is I can keep (and search) a local copy > of the traffic on the list and, since it's my copy of the messages, I can > delete all of the extra drek that inevitably occurs. If it's a > forum-only interface, all that garbage is ALSO kept, or we all rely on > one individuals opinion of what's worth keeping. > > > Forums tend to allow a broader and somewhat more focused discussion. > > How? "broader" and "focused" tend to be at alternate ends of a spectrum. > > Bruce > > -- > +-------------------+---------------------------------------------------+ > Bruce Bowler | Our days are not problems to be solved, but reality > 1.207.633.9600 | to be lived. - Anonymous > bbowler at bigelow.org | > +-------------------+---------------------------------------------------+ > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > -- Landon S. Morgan St. Augustine, FL ___________________________ This email account is used for personal and business communications by the sender. All correspondence contained herein should be considered a privileged communication between recipient and sender. Contents of this email shall not be released or retransmitted without the explicit consent of both parties. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20080104/aa18e484/attachment-0002.html From chapka at yahoo.com Fri Jan 4 14:57:24 2008 From: chapka at yahoo.com (Christopher Hapka) Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 11:57:24 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Cheese] Forum Message-ID: <170713.76334.qm@web55208.mail.re4.yahoo.com> >How? "broader" and "focused" tend to be at alternate ends of a > spectrum. A forum typically has multiple subfora, often a dozen or more. This means that you can have discussions on a wider range of topics while still maintaining a focus in each area. For a good example of what we're talking about here, I recommend checking out the Northern Brewer homebrewing forums: http://forum.northernbrewer.com/ All kinds of brewing information is covered, just as it would be on a mailing list, but people who don't care about certain aspects can more easily avoid certain areas--for example, keg systems or sake making. This means that more areas of discussion can be covered without the whole site becoming too unfocused for readers who aren't interested in those areas. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs From Weber8533 at fairpoint.net Fri Jan 4 16:21:21 2008 From: Weber8533 at fairpoint.net (Weber) Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 16:21:21 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] Any interest in a Cheesemaking BBS? References: <733b93bf0801031356u7b4f1ad0n8cbfcae58bebac23@mail.gmail.com><477D7339.3040203@mc.net> <733b93bf0801031945m3ece3c45l509555c0df0f68fe@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <005101c84f18$3ff995f0$0400000a@vaio> >>> ----- Original Message ----- I envision a BBS system where cheesemakers from all over the world can come together to post pictures and share knowledge with each other. That intimidates me. I've been on lists with self-proclaimed experts and the hog wash is so full of flakes that the stress will overwhelm me to the point where I won't even start a project. I kind of like the atmosphere here. We try something. We ask questions if its needed. Then we try it again. It works for me. I would not use a forum where I had click from one link to another in order to find the right topic and then read and scroll forever trying to get to the right answer. >>> As far as ads, maybe there would be, but I can assure you, this isn't a venture for profit and almost certainly wouldn't ever be lucrative. There just aren't enough cheesemakers out there to hope for a payday as a result of this, but there are enough out there to warrant a new, updated format for discussion. You know there will be ads. And they will be annoying. And you will be making money from them. I see nothing wrong in making money but it strikes me wrong to see someone else make money from a group that had been established by a different party. Fess up. It's a business plan. If it were not then you would certainly be able to offer a forum that is ad free. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20080104/b55e0983/attachment-0002.html From mila.bulic at gmail.com Fri Jan 4 16:39:16 2008 From: mila.bulic at gmail.com (mila bulic) Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 18:39:16 -0300 Subject: [Cheese] Any interest in a Cheesemaking BBS? In-Reply-To: <005101c84f18$3ff995f0$0400000a@vaio> References: <733b93bf0801031356u7b4f1ad0n8cbfcae58bebac23@mail.gmail.com> <477D7339.3040203@mc.net> <733b93bf0801031945m3ece3c45l509555c0df0f68fe@mail.gmail.com> <005101c84f18$3ff995f0$0400000a@vaio> Message-ID: I really thought this was going to be a good place to learn, which is why I subscribed... can we please just drop this topic? It has nothing to do with the forum... meanwhile, there are a couple of questions about cheese making that are on the table... thanks On Jan 4, 2008 6:21 PM, Weber wrote: > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > I envision a BBS system where cheesemakers from all over the world can > come together to post pictures and share knowledge with each other. > > That intimidates me. I've been on lists with self-proclaimed experts and > the hog wash is so full of flakes that the stress will overwhelm me to the > point where I won't even start a project. > > I kind of like the atmosphere here. We try something. We ask questions > if its needed. Then we try it again. It works for me. I would not use a > forum where I had click from one link to another in order to find the right > topic and then read and scroll forever trying to get to the right answer. > > >>> As far as ads, maybe there would be, but I can assure you, this isn't > a venture for profit and almost certainly wouldn't ever be lucrative. There > just aren't enough cheesemakers out there to hope for a payday as a result > of this, but there are enough out there to warrant a new, updated format for > discussion. > You know there will be ads. And they will be annoying. And you will be > making money from them. I see nothing wrong in making money but it strikes > me wrong to see someone else make money from a group that had been > established by a different party. > > Fess up. It's a business plan. If it were not then you would certainly > be able to offer a forum that is ad free. > > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20080104/02e1da45/attachment-0002.html From sonalishivhare at gmail.com Fri Jan 4 17:01:16 2008 From: sonalishivhare at gmail.com (sonali shivhare) Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 03:31:16 +0530 Subject: [Cheese] Cheese Digest, Vol 25, Issue 6 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Please do not include me on the mailing list any further. Thankyou On Jan 5, 2008 1:29 AM, wrote: > Send Cheese mailing list submissions to > cheese at hbd.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > cheese-request at hbd.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > cheese-owner at hbd.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Cheese digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Any interest in a Cheesemaking BBS? (jabbott at abbotts.org) > 2. Re: Any interest in a Cheesemaking BBS? (Jack Schmidling) > 3. Re: Any interest in a Cheesemaking BBS? (Landon Morgan) > 4. Re: Any interest in a Cheesemaking BBS? (Landon Morgan) > 5. Re: Forum (Landon Morgan) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 10:02:55 -0600 (CST) > From: > Subject: Re: [Cheese] Any interest in a Cheesemaking BBS? > To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" > Message-ID: > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > > > That is the parked page. Not the same thing at all as what a web site or > web forum would be. > > --ja > > On Fri, 4 Jan 2008, Jack Schmidling wrote: > > > jabbott at abbotts.org wrote: > > > I run a forum for people who heat their houses with corn. You can > > > take a look at it at http://forum.iburncorn.com if you want to see > > > what a forum could be like. At least it would kind of give you an > > > idea of what this guy is proposing. > > > > Now take a look at http://www.talkcheese.com/ and see what he is > > proposing. It's wall to wall advertising. > > > > > > >The nice thing about it is it is > > > easy to go into it and search for past messages. > > > > How is it easier than searching the archives of this list? > > > > > We > > > have a guy right now talking to the list about the dryness and > > > quantity of mold on his cheese. Wouldn't it be nice to see a > > > picture? > > > > > > All he has to do is post it as along as he obeys the max message > > restriction which can be changed but I see no need. > > > > > As far as following the money trail, well, that would be a pretty > > > short trail. Pay per click advertising is a great way to make coffee > > > money, but not much more. I am sure he could cover his $30/year but > > > I wouldn't bet on much more. People just don't click on the ads the > > > way the did years ago. In a few years, if it really takes off, he > > > might get some sponsership money. ...not exactly something you > > > retire on either... > > > > Then why do it? What is the point in annoying readers if there is no > > payback? > > > > If he is so interested in cheesemaking, where are all his postings to > > this list? Sorry but I read his posting as trolling for subscribers to > > his platform for advertising. > > > > js > > > > > > -- > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2008 09:32:34 -0800 > From: Jack Schmidling > Subject: Re: [Cheese] Any interest in a Cheesemaking BBS? > To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" > Message-ID: <477E6DB2.4050908 at mc.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Derek Bradford wrote: > > > I have to correct you here, Jack. In other words, the ads you see aren't > his responsibility, and may not > > be anything like what he has in mind. > > > I understand but it makes the point of what the possibilities are and > what so many of them really do look like. > > The fact that he already said it would include advertising is enough to > keep me away. I do not like ads. My not so humble opinion. > > Personally, I prefer usenet to most web based fora but one only needs to > read alt.cheese to realize that something is fundamentally wrong there > and I am not quite sure what. > > The only thing that comes to mind is that there are already too many > cheese groups and we need to consolidate and not expand. > > js > > -- > PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm > Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 14:42:16 -0500 > From: "Landon Morgan" > Subject: Re: [Cheese] Any interest in a Cheesemaking BBS? > To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" > Message-ID: > <733b93bf0801041142l5bc23125g7fbe225fe46b06c6 at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Jack- your replies have been a bit insulting and it seems to me that you > are > naysaying to naysay. I won't bother arging any further with you- if you > wish > to participate, then you are absolutely welcome. If not, that's your > decision. > > Sorry if anyone thinks I'm a troll. > I'm just a lurker who found a recent interest in cheesemaking when > InWineCountry did a segment on a winemaker who was also a cheesemaker and > made a wine-cheese combo. > > I am just starting off with really basic stuff, so my knowledge base is > pretty slim. > I am, however, a long time internet participant who has seen the available > technologies and mediums grow and noticed that there might be room for > such > a forum. > > I will start building the site this evening (I think I am going to use a > free BBS service and then point the domain name to it) and should have it > available by tomorrow. > If anyone has any ideas for specific forums, please let me know and I'll > be > glad to make them. > One thing I've learned as a long-time forum administrator is that it's > best > to keep new forums limited to broad areas of discussion, rather than > creating forums for every possible variable of discussion, so I'd love to > hear everyones ideas! > > Thanks > > Landon > > On Jan 4, 2008 12:32 PM, Jack Schmidling wrote: > > > Derek Bradford wrote: > > > > > I have to correct you here, Jack. In other words, the ads you see > aren't > > his responsibility, and may not > > > be anything like what he has in mind. > > > > > > I understand but it makes the point of what the possibilities are and > > what so many of them really do look like. > > > > The fact that he already said it would include advertising is enough to > > keep me away. I do not like ads. My not so humble opinion. > > > > Personally, I prefer usenet to most web based fora but one only needs to > > read alt.cheese to realize that something is fundamentally wrong there > > and I am not quite sure what. > > > > The only thing that comes to mind is that there are already too many > > cheese groups and we need to consolidate and not expand. > > > > js > > > > -- > > PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm > > Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver > http://schmidling.com > > _______________________________________________ > > Cheese mailing list > > Cheese at hbd.org > > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > > > > > > -- > Landon S. Morgan > St. Augustine, FL > ___________________________ > This email account is used for personal and business communications by the > sender. All correspondence contained herein should be considered a > privileged communication between recipient and sender. Contents of this > email shall not be released or retransmitted without the explicit consent > of > both parties. > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20080104/8a6a8168/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 14:48:08 -0500 > From: "Landon Morgan" > Subject: Re: [Cheese] Any interest in a Cheesemaking BBS? > To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" > Message-ID: > <733b93bf0801041148y2eb71735se119ea73ef6589af at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Oh, and PS- I'll be glad to pledge to keep the forum advertising free for > a > period of time if anyone wishes. Really, a forum such as this wouldn't > make > anything in advertising revenues. If one day it were to grow into 1000+ > participants and I had to move it to a pay site, then I might consider > taking on a banner ad or two from cheesemaking supply places, but that's a > long, long time off and to be honest, a forum like this may never get > there. > > > Landon > > On Jan 4, 2008 2:42 PM, Landon Morgan wrote: > > > Jack- your replies have been a bit insulting and it seems to me that you > > are naysaying to naysay. I won't bother arging any further with you- if > you > > wish to participate, then you are absolutely welcome. If not, that's > your > > decision. > > > > Sorry if anyone thinks I'm a troll. > > I'm just a lurker who found a recent interest in cheesemaking when > > InWineCountry did a segment on a winemaker who was also a cheesemaker > and > > made a wine-cheese combo. > > > > I am just starting off with really basic stuff, so my knowledge base is > > pretty slim. > > I am, however, a long time internet participant who has seen the > available > > technologies and mediums grow and noticed that there might be room for > such > > a forum. > > > > I will start building the site this evening (I think I am going to use a > > free BBS service and then point the domain name to it) and should have > it > > available by tomorrow. > > If anyone has any ideas for specific forums, please let me know and I'll > > be glad to make them. > > One thing I've learned as a long-time forum administrator is that it's > > best to keep new forums limited to broad areas of discussion, rather > than > > creating forums for every possible variable of discussion, so I'd love > to > > hear everyones ideas! > > > > Thanks > > > > Landon > > > > > > On Jan 4, 2008 12:32 PM, Jack Schmidling wrote: > > > > > Derek Bradford wrote: > > > > > > > I have to correct you here, Jack. In other words, the ads you see > > > aren't his responsibility, and may not > > > > be anything like what he has in mind. > > > > > > > > > I understand but it makes the point of what the possibilities are and > > > what so many of them really do look like. > > > > > > The fact that he already said it would include advertising is enough > to > > > keep me away. I do not like ads. My not so humble opinion. > > > > > > Personally, I prefer usenet to most web based fora but one only needs > to > > > read alt.cheese to realize that something is fundamentally wrong there > > > and I am not quite sure what. > > > > > > The only thing that comes to mind is that there are already too many > > > cheese groups and we need to consolidate and not expand. > > > > > > js > > > > > > -- > > > PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm > > > Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver > > > http://schmidling.com > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Cheese mailing list > > > Cheese at hbd.org > > > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Landon S. Morgan > > St. Augustine, FL > > ___________________________ > > This email account is used for personal and business communications by > the > > sender. All correspondence contained herein should be considered a > > privileged communication between recipient and sender. Contents of this > > email shall not be released or retransmitted without the explicit > consent of > > both parties. > > > > > > -- > Landon S. Morgan > St. Augustine, FL > ___________________________ > This email account is used for personal and business communications by the > sender. All correspondence contained herein should be considered a > privileged communication between recipient and sender. Contents of this > email shall not be released or retransmitted without the explicit consent > of > both parties. > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20080104/d00eca1b/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 14:51:20 -0500 > From: "Landon Morgan" > Subject: Re: [Cheese] Forum > To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" > Message-ID: > <733b93bf0801041151r55f0a6d2oeafe8a6711de1638 at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Bruce- > > "How? "broader" and "focused" tend to be at alternate ends of a > spectrum." > > I was definitely unclear there. > It has a broader functionality but with the ability to focus the > discussions > in a far more efficient fashion. > > On Jan 4, 2008 9:50 AM, Bruce Bowler wrote: > > > On Fri, 4 Jan 2008 06:14:12 -0800 (PST) > > Christopher Hapka put fingers to keyboard and said: > > > > > In general, I prefer forums to mailing lists, although I read both. > > > > In general, I prefer mailing lists to fora. > > > > One reason I prefer mailing lists is I can keep (and search) a local > copy > > of the traffic on the list and, since it's my copy of the messages, I > can > > delete all of the extra drek that inevitably occurs. If it's a > > forum-only interface, all that garbage is ALSO kept, or we all rely on > > one individuals opinion of what's worth keeping. > > > > > Forums tend to allow a broader and somewhat more focused discussion. > > > > How? "broader" and "focused" tend to be at alternate ends of a > spectrum. > > > > Bruce > > > > -- > > > +-------------------+---------------------------------------------------+ > > Bruce Bowler | Our days are not problems to be solved, but > reality > > 1.207.633.9600 | to be lived. - Anonymous > > bbowler at bigelow.org | > > > +-------------------+---------------------------------------------------+ > > _______________________________________________ > > Cheese mailing list > > Cheese at hbd.org > > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > > > > > > -- > Landon S. Morgan > St. Augustine, FL > ___________________________ > This email account is used for personal and business communications by the > sender. All correspondence contained herein should be considered a > privileged communication between recipient and sender. Contents of this > email shall not be released or retransmitted without the explicit consent > of > both parties. > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20080104/aa18e484/attachment.html > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > > > End of Cheese Digest, Vol 25, Issue 6 > ************************************* > -- Sonali Shivhare "Make hay while the sun shines" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20080105/628346c9/attachment-0002.html From landonmorgan at gmail.com Fri Jan 4 17:17:34 2008 From: landonmorgan at gmail.com (Landon Morgan) Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 17:17:34 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] Any interest in a Cheesemaking BBS? In-Reply-To: <005101c84f18$3ff995f0$0400000a@vaio> References: <733b93bf0801031356u7b4f1ad0n8cbfcae58bebac23@mail.gmail.com> <477D7339.3040203@mc.net> <733b93bf0801031945m3ece3c45l509555c0df0f68fe@mail.gmail.com> <005101c84f18$3ff995f0$0400000a@vaio> Message-ID: <733b93bf0801041417g39785c8bp84581f7d815b6f4a@mail.gmail.com> "Fess up. It's a business plan. If it were not then you would certainly be able to offer a forum that is ad free. " If you knew about internet bulletin boards what you presumably know about cheese, you would realize how laughable a statement that is. "Profitability" in a discussion forum is near impossible to achieve, save for a few enormous forums (hundreds of thousands of users) that were built early on and even then, the best most of them do is break even. There may be ads in the initial phase of the forum, but I don't get paid for them- the ads are what allow me to put up a free forum to see if the idea is viable to begin with. I've never understood the bizarre, childish reaction that some people have to the presence of banner ads, but I guess there are people who like to gripe about anything and it gives them something to gripe about. In any event, there's no sense in "debating" this. Those who would like to participate are welcome to. It's a pretty safe bet that activity on the forums will be very minimal for a long time, but hopefully, in years to come, it will grow. The domain will be talkcheese.com. All are welcome. Try checking back in a few days. If there are more than 50 registrants and reasonable forum participation after a few months, I will likely get rid of the "free" BBS forum- that has banner ads- transfer the posts over and pay for a dedicated, ad-free forum. Participation in the forums won't require anyone to resign their participation in the email list, so feel free to take a look. On Jan 4, 2008 4:21 PM, Weber wrote: > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > I envision a BBS system where cheesemakers from all over the world can > come together to post pictures and share knowledge with each other. > > > You know there will be ads. And they will be annoying. And you will be > making money from them. I see nothing wrong in making money but it strikes > me wrong to see someone else make money from a group that had been > established by a different party. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > > -- Landon S. Morgan St. Augustine, FL ___________________________ This email account is used for personal and business communications by the sender. All correspondence contained herein should be considered a privileged communication between recipient and sender. Contents of this email shall not be released or retransmitted without the explicit consent of both parties. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20080104/c87823b4/attachment-0002.html From mark at zymurgia.com Fri Jan 4 17:28:07 2008 From: mark at zymurgia.com (Mark E. in Oz) Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 09:28:07 +1100 Subject: [Cheese] JS - Cheesemilk In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200801050928.07877.mark@zymurgia.com> G'day Folks, Hey Jack, are you still cheesemaking with you cheesemilk blends or sourcing from a local dairy etc? I was curious after several years at it, whether you were still happy with the results of your "re-mix" milk. Cheers from the deepest south, MarkE in Oz zymurgia.com From bac at NebrWesleyan.edu Fri Jan 4 18:24:30 2008 From: bac at NebrWesleyan.edu (Barbara Cornelius) Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2008 17:24:30 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] JS - Cheesemilk In-Reply-To: <200801050928.07877.mark@zymurgia.com> References: <200801050928.07877.mark@zymurgia.com> Message-ID: <20080104172430.0wu8iyq7msg480c4@webmail.nebrwesleyan.edu> What does this mean, cheesemilk blends? Is it skim milk with cream added? I've not tried that, but I understand it's what's available to many people who are wanting to make cheese. I've been very lucky and able to source local milk, both goat and cow. Those of you who use blends (if I have gotten that right), are there farms nearby or farmers' markets where you can make friends and find sources of milk? I ask out of curiosity. I'm beginning to despair of the state of local farming in the US, from what I hear anecdotally from other people who are starting out making cheese. Barbara Quoting "Mark E. in Oz" : > G'day Folks, > > Hey Jack, are you still cheesemaking with you cheesemilk blends or sourcing > from a local dairy etc? > > I was curious after several years at it, whether you were still? > happy with the > results of your "re-mix" milk. > > Cheers from the deepest south, > > MarkE in Oz > zymurgia.com > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20080104/6ee7b60f/attachment-0002.html From landonmorgan at gmail.com Fri Jan 4 19:13:15 2008 From: landonmorgan at gmail.com (Landon Morgan) Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 19:13:15 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] The new talkcheese.com forums are now up! Message-ID: <733b93bf0801041613i75e9587m1f0c681b2bd2bf8f@mail.gmail.com> Hi all. The new forums are up and running. Feel free to check them out! www.talkcheese.com -- Landon S. Morgan St. Augustine, FL ___________________________ This email account is used for personal and business communications by the sender. All correspondence contained herein should be considered a privileged communication between recipient and sender. Contents of this email shall not be released or retransmitted without the explicit consent of both parties. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20080104/c52191de/attachment-0002.html From arf at mc.net Fri Jan 4 21:01:34 2008 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2008 18:01:34 -0800 Subject: [Cheese] Any interest in a Cheesemaking BBS? In-Reply-To: <733b93bf0801041142l5bc23125g7fbe225fe46b06c6@mail.gmail.com> References: <477E3FD4.1070503@mc.net> <799e8cd60801040722w36af4847p4d1db9ce25bce41f@mail.gmail.com> <477E6DB2.4050908@mc.net> <733b93bf0801041142l5bc23125g7fbe225fe46b06c6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <477EE4FE.4030904@mc.net> Landon Morgan wrote: > I am just starting off with really basic stuff, so my knowledge base is > pretty slim. That hardly seems like reasons for starting a cheese making forum. I had nothing to do with this one other than participating for years. The owner (a brewer) got tired of dealing with it and asked me to moderate it. I have no vested interest in it but agreed just to keep it going. My intent is not to insult you but to determine your motives by challenge, as the archives seem to be broken at this time. It occurs to me that if you have a real interest in cheese making you would have made that clear by posting here. The only post I can find is this one about starting another forum. You have made your pitch so I suggest that you confine further postings to cheese making. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From arf at mc.net Fri Jan 4 23:27:38 2008 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2008 20:27:38 -0800 Subject: [Cheese] JS - Cheesemilk In-Reply-To: <20080104172430.0wu8iyq7msg480c4@webmail.nebrwesleyan.edu> References: <200801050928.07877.mark@zymurgia.com> <20080104172430.0wu8iyq7msg480c4@webmail.nebrwesleyan.edu> Message-ID: <477F073A.7010904@mc.net> Barbara Cornelius wrote: > > > What does this mean, cheesemilk blends? Is it skim milk with cream > added? I've not tried that, but I understand it's what's available to > many people who are wanting to make cheese. I think he is referring to my Cheese Milk page wherein I offer a diverse combination of stuff that can be used to make cheese. None of these can make cheese with the character of fresh Jersey milk but they can all make good cheese of one sort of another. Check out http://schmidling.com/milk.htm to get the idea. I have used all of these as substitutes for fresh milk but mostly before I had access to fresh Jersey milk. The cow has since died and I am back to substitutes again. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From blackhorse89506 at yahoo.com Fri Jan 4 20:44:18 2008 From: blackhorse89506 at yahoo.com (Blackhorse) Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2008 17:44:18 -0800 Subject: [Cheese] making goat milk cheese? In-Reply-To: <477E4D02.7040808@mc.net> References: <001401c84e2f$e25db2c0$6401a8c0@conrad3igswqs1> <477D75AA.4030304@mc.net> <20080103183627.10mw5ahoasg480oc@webmail.nebrwesleyan.edu> <477D879C.4070304@mc.net> <20080103211748.9raa48viss88cs00@webmail.nebrwesleyan.edu> <477E4D02.7040808@mc.net> Message-ID: <477EE0F2.4030003@yahoo.com> Hi Jack, I'm just a lurker but I've made goat cheese for 25 years (from my goats) and I have never used calcium chloride and never had a soft curd because of not using it. Additionally, you should know that goat milk separates just fine with a properly adjusted separator, and at the right temperature. Currently, I make cheeses (mostly feta, queso, colby, moz, chevre, wild blue, and camembert, and kefir) with raw milk right out of the goat, and my milk runs about 6-7% butterfat. Actually, my milk WILL separate in the jar if I leave it a couple of days in the fridge. paulainnevada creamcupmini's Jack Schmidling wrote: > mila bulic wrote: > > > According to Kosikowski, any milk that is not still warm from the animal > needs calcium chloride. This is no doubt true in a theoretical sense > but seems a bit of a reach in the real world. > > I never used it with fresh milk but it does seem to help firm up the > curd when using homo milk. This would indicate that the same could be > true for goat milk. > > js > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20080104/dedb1127/attachment-0002.html From arf at mc.net Sat Jan 5 09:10:05 2008 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2008 06:10:05 -0800 Subject: [Cheese] [MC-SUSPECTED-SPAM] Re: making goat milk cheese? In-Reply-To: <477EE0F2.4030003@yahoo.com> References: <001401c84e2f$e25db2c0$6401a8c0@conrad3igswqs1> <477D75AA.4030304@mc.net> <20080103183627.10mw5ahoasg480oc@webmail.nebrwesleyan.edu> <477D879C.4070304@mc.net> <20080103211748.9raa48viss88cs00@webmail.nebrwesleyan.edu> <477E4D02.7040808@mc.net> <477EE0F2.4030003@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <477F8FBD.9040109@mc.net> Blackhorse wrote: > I'm just a lurker but I've made goat cheese for 25 years (from my goats) > and I have never used calcium chloride and never had a soft curd because > of not using it. What breed are your goats? >Currently, I make cheeses (mostly feta, queso, colby, moz, > chevre, wild blue, and camembert, and kefir) with raw milk right out of > the goat..... Two things here.... first of all most of those are soft cheeses and my comments were directed at a Cheddar type cheese. Secondly, I pasteurized the milk that I used so that might change things. >and my milk runs about 6-7% butterfat. That's about 2% above the typical quoted in most books for goats. Do you know of some simple way to measure this fat content? How do you arrive at that number? js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From kajvandeloo at hotmail.com Sat Jan 5 16:07:55 2008 From: kajvandeloo at hotmail.com (Kaj van de Loo) Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 13:07:55 -0800 Subject: [Cheese] parmesan cheese recipe In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Try this one: http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Cottage/1288/hard/parmesan.htm Plenty of other valuable information on that site as well. /K > From: cheese-request at hbd.org> Subject: Cheese Digest, Vol 25, Issue 3> To: cheese at hbd.org> Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 22:52:39 -0500> > Send Cheese mailing list submissions to> cheese at hbd.org> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit> http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to> cheese-request at hbd.org> > You can reach the person managing the list at> cheese-owner at hbd.org> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific> than "Re: Contents of Cheese digest..."> > > Today's Topics:> > 1. parmesan cheese recipe (the zymurgist)> 2. Re: Any interest in a Cheesemaking BBS? (Heidi Angove)> 3. Re: Any interest in a Cheesemaking BBS? (jabbott at abbotts.org)> 4. Re: making goat milk cheese? (Barbara Cornelius)> 5. Re: making goat milk cheese? (Jack Schmidling)> 6. Re: making goat milk cheese? (Barbara Cornelius)> 7. Re: Any interest in a Cheesemaking BBS? (Landon Morgan)> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------> > Message: 1> Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 16:09:32 -0800 (PST)> From: the zymurgist > Subject: [Cheese] parmesan cheese recipe> To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" > Message-ID: <853297.27121.qm at web35502.mail.mud.yahoo.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1> > does any one have a good recipe and process for making> parmesan cheese?> Thank you> > > ____________________________________________________________________________________> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs> > > ------------------------------> > Message: 2> Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 10:50:00 +1030> From: "Heidi Angove" > Subject: Re: [Cheese] Any interest in a Cheesemaking BBS?> To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" > Message-ID:> <1bb7ad130801031620q4898ba17n89801060425c420f at mail.gmail.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"> > I'm pretty happy with a mailing list. This way I get information slowly and> without searching. I'm just a lurker but love being a part of the list. I'm> yet to start really making anything beyond marscapone and ricotta and am> learning so much before I take the big leap that I wouldn't have thought to> search for or ask ..> > So a big thank you to you all for sharing your knowledge and please don't> let the list disappear.> > On 1/4/08, Jack Schmidling wrote:> >> > Landon Morgan wrote:> > > Just wondering- the mailing list concept is kinda dated.> >> > So is money but it works just fine.> >> > > I have the domain name talkcheese.com and could easily put up a> > > bulletin board system. This would allow the information and data to be a> > bit> > > more accessible.> >> > I think you need to be a bit more explicit. What is a bulletin board> > system? What does it offer better than this? The community is small> > enough... what is gained by spreading it thinner?> >> > I will also bet that there will be ads and commercials on your BBS?> >> > js> >> >> > --> > PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm> > Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com> > _______________________________________________> > Cheese mailing list> > Cheese at hbd.org> > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese> >> -------------- next part --------------> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...> URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20080104/3db06f76/attachment-0001.html> > ------------------------------> > Message: 3> Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 17:32:19 -0600 (CST)> From: > Subject: Re: [Cheese] Any interest in a Cheesemaking BBS?> To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" > Message-ID: > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII> > > I assume you are talking about a forum? Like phpBB or something? I would be willing to help out with that.> > The nice thing about going that route rather than the list is it is easier to search old posts.> > --ja> > On Thu, 3 Jan 2008, Landon Morgan wrote:> > > Just wondering- the mailing list concept is kinda dated.> > I have the domain name talkcheese.com and could easily put up a> > bulletin board system. This would allow the information and data to be a bit> > more accessible.> > Any interest in this?> > Let me know.> > > > landonmorgan at gmail.com> > > > > > -- > > > > > ------------------------------> > Message: 4> Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 18:36:27 -0600> From: Barbara Cornelius > Subject: Re: [Cheese] making goat milk cheese?> To: cheese at hbd.org> Message-ID: <20080103183627.10mw5ahoasg480oc at webmail.nebrwesleyan.edu>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"> > > > I'm sorry, but this is just not true. Usually goat milk has a > little *more* fat than cow milk; 10 grams of fat per 8oz goat milk > compared to 8 to 9 grams of fat for the same amount of cow milk.> > For more information about that, see this website: > http://fiascofarm.com/dairy/goatmilk-breakdown.html> > Fias Co Farm's website is also a good place to find out about > making soft and hard goat cheeses.> > There are many, many traditional hard cheeses made from goat milk. > They are no more difficult than cow milk cheeses, but you do need to > adjust your 'cooking' temperatures down somewhat, and use differing > amounts of rennet. It all depends on what sort of cheese you ware > wanting to make.> > I have found a great resource of information and help to be this > Yahoo group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GoatCheesePlus/> > It's made up of dairy owners, goat cheese makers, beginning and > advanced. I think you'll find it useful.> > I hope this helps!> > Barbara> > Quoting Jack Schmidling :> > > Barbara Witt wrote:> >> Where can I find information on making goat milk cheese?> >> > There really is little difference in the process but goat milk usually> > has less fat so hard cheeses do not generally work out as well.> > However, it is easy to correct this problem if you add extra cream to> > the milk.> >> > This doesn't help much is you raise only goats and want to be self> > sufficient but life is not fair.> >> > js> >> > --> > PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm> > Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com> > _______________________________________________> > Cheese mailing list> > Cheese at hbd.org> > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese> >> > > -------------- next part --------------> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...> URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20080103/a0907dcf/attachment-0001.html> > ------------------------------> > Message: 5> Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 17:10:52 -0800> From: Jack Schmidling > Subject: Re: [Cheese] making goat milk cheese?> To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" > Message-ID: <477D879C.4070304 at mc.net>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed> > Barbara Cornelius wrote:> > > > > > I'm sorry, but this is just not true. Usually goat milk has a little > > *more* fat than cow milk;> > I stand corrected but there is something about the fat that makes it > difficult to produce a cheddar type cheese. Something to do with the > globule size which makes it similar to homogenized cow milk.> > Is it not true that one can not separate the fat with a separator to > make cream and butter with goat milk?> > I confess limited experience with goat milk and not having milk goats, > the cost makes it not worth further investigation. I made two batches > from fresh goat milk and they both turned out hard as bricks. Nice > grating cheese but no joy.> > js> > > -- > PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm> Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com> > > ------------------------------> > Message: 6> Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 21:17:48 -0600> From: Barbara Cornelius > Subject: Re: [Cheese] making goat milk cheese?> To: cheese at hbd.org> Message-ID: <20080103211748.9raa48viss88cs00 at webmail.nebrwesleyan.edu>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"> > > > Quoting Jack Schmidling :> > > Barbara Cornelius wrote:> >>> >>> >> ? ?I'm sorry, but this is just not true. Usually goat milk has a? little> >> *more* fat than cow milk;> >> > I stand corrected but there is something about the fat that makes it> > difficult to produce a cheddar type cheese.? Something to do with the> > globule size which makes it similar to homogenized cow milk.> >> > Is it not true that one can not separate the fat with a separator to> > make cream and butter with goat milk?> >> > I confess limited experience with goat milk and not having milk goats,> > the cost makes it not worth further investigation.? I made two batches> > from fresh goat milk and they both turned out hard as bricks.? Nice> > grating cheese but no joy.> > Goat milk is naturally homogenized. It has smaller fat globules, > although the milk can be separated from the cream with a separator. If > you let a jar of it set for a couple of days, you can see that some of > the milkfat does rise to the top.> > There are several makers of really good goat cheddar, although I > have no idea exactly what they have to do differently from cow cheddar > to make it.? I have a local source for goat milk, and I've used it to > make 50/50 goat-cow hard cheeses, but not cheddar.> > What I don't know about goat milk and goat cheeses FAR exceeds what > I do know, however :) Try Fias Co Farm's site, and definitely look at > this site: http://biology.clc.uc.edu/Fankhauser/Cheese/Cheese.html> > He has goats and is also a biology prof who teaches his students > about fermentation, yeasts, etc. by making cheese, beer, bread, etc. > He uses his goats' milk in his cheeses, and puts up all kinds of > recipes.> > Barbara> > ?> > > -------------- next part --------------> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...> URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20080103/e6a548ca/attachment-0001.html> > ------------------------------> > Message: 7> Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 22:45:25 -0500> From: "Landon Morgan" > Subject: Re: [Cheese] Any interest in a Cheesemaking BBS?> To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" > Message-ID:> <733b93bf0801031945m3ece3c45l509555c0df0f68fe at mail.gmail.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"> > "So is money but it works just fine."> > There's a difference between something that "works" and something that> "works well"> > "I think you need to be a bit more explicit. What is a bulletin board> system? What does it offer better than this? The community is small> enough... what is gained by spreading it thinner?"> > A bulletin board system is a format for discussion that allows the topics,> pictures and conversations to be viewed as their own medium in a "forum> setting" rather than as a series of unique, topical email communiques sent> to subscribing participants. It wouldn't serve to "spread the community> thinner" but rather would serve to start a forum and community with a base> of knowledgeable people- the people of this mailing list- that could> eventually grow larger.> Fact is, hamstringing the community to a mailing list isn't exactly> conducive to growth. Cheesemaking is a narrow enough field of interest that> it's probably best to remain reasonably progressive as a community rather> than lodged in old formats with wildly inferior functionality.> > I envision a BBS system where cheesemakers from all over the world can come> together to post pictures and share knowledge with each other.> > As far as ads, maybe there would be, but I can assure you, this isn't a> venture for profit and almost certainly wouldn't ever be lucrative. There> just aren't enough cheesemakers out there to hope for a payday as a result> of this, but there are enough out there to warrant a new, updated format for> discussion.> > Anyway, that's my case for it. I would welcome any other opinions.> > > On Jan 3, 2008 6:43 PM, Jack Schmidling wrote:> > > Landon Morgan wrote:> > > Just wondering- the mailing list concept is kinda dated.> >> > So is money but it works just fine.> >> > > I have the domain name talkcheese.com and could easily put up a> > > bulletin board system. This would allow the information and data to be a> > bit> > > more accessible.> >> > I think you need to be a bit more explicit. What is a bulletin board> > system? What does it offer better than this? The community is small> > enough... what is gained by spreading it thinner?> >> > I will also bet that there will be ads and commercials on your BBS?> >> > js> >> >> > --> > PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm> > Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com> > _______________________________________________> > Cheese mailing list> > Cheese at hbd.org> > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese> >> > > > -- > Landon S. Morgan> St. Augustine, FL> ___________________________> This email account is used for personal and business communications by the> sender. All correspondence contained herein should be considered a> privileged communication between recipient and sender. Contents of this> email shall not be released or retransmitted without the explicit consent of> both parties.> -------------- next part --------------> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...> URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20080103/68aaba56/attachment.html> > ------------------------------> > _______________________________________________> Cheese mailing list> Cheese at hbd.org> http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese> > > End of Cheese Digest, Vol 25, Issue 3> ************************************* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20080105/2c3274d7/attachment-0002.html From bean476 at yahoo.com.cn Sun Jan 6 02:04:25 2008 From: bean476 at yahoo.com.cn (Tong) Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 15:04:25 +0800 (CST) Subject: [Cheese] cheesemaking BBS or forum In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <388917.24105.qm@web15807.mail.cnb.yahoo.com> Hello, BBS or forum is very popular now. I think BBS or forum has some advantages, 1. One can search old topics easily. 2. Topic which has new reply is on the top of the list, however administrator could make some important topics always on the top. 3. Topic and all its reply will be displayed in a new windows, so one can read them all at one blow. 4. Topic can display pictures, usually jpg or gif, easily. 5. Members can communicate with each other on line either openly or privately. But I don't like a commercial forum, which will be filled with lots of disgusting ads that you have to delete them everyday... I administer a cheesemaking forum in china. Some big website provide free forum space , such as Yahoo. Best wishes! Tong --------------------------------- ÑÅ»¢ÓÊÏä´«µÝÐÂÄê×£¸££¬¸öÐԺؿ¨ËÍÇ×Åó£¡ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20080106/889b0a74/attachment-0002.html From bean476 at yahoo.com.cn Sun Jan 6 02:05:13 2008 From: bean476 at yahoo.com.cn (Tong) Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 15:05:13 +0800 (CST) Subject: [Cheese] some book of goat cheese making In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <318115.44842.qm@web15809.mail.cnb.yahoo.com> Hello, I wish to translate some good books of goat cheese making into chinese, could you recommend some books? --------------------------------- ÑÅ»¢ÓÊÏä´«µÝÐÂÄê×£¸££¬¸öÐԺؿ¨ËÍÇ×Åó£¡ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20080106/efc8f2b5/attachment-0002.html From creamcupminis at yahoo.com Sun Jan 6 12:14:45 2008 From: creamcupminis at yahoo.com (Creamcup Mini's) Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2008 09:14:45 -0800 Subject: [Cheese] [MC-SUSPECTED-SPAM] Re: making goat milk cheese? In-Reply-To: <477F8FBD.9040109@mc.net> References: <001401c84e2f$e25db2c0$6401a8c0@conrad3igswqs1> <477D75AA.4030304@mc.net> <20080103183627.10mw5ahoasg480oc@webmail.nebrwesleyan.edu> <477D879C.4070304@mc.net> <20080103211748.9raa48viss88cs00@webmail.nebrwesleyan.edu> <477E4D02.7040808@mc.net> <477EE0F2.4030003@yahoo.com> <477F8FBD.9040109@mc.net> Message-ID: <47810C85.5040701@yahoo.com> Ha, I have no idea which email I joined the list with, maybe this one??? * They are miniature LaManchas. This breed is part standard dairy la mancha and part nigerian, hence the higher butterfat. Nigerians can produce up to 7.5% butterfat. * Yes they are mostly soft; I freeze most of these for use during the winter, as well. I do make something that passes for cheddar, and sometimes gouda, but I prefer the others, and like to play with mold, so there you are. I believe you said you might need CACL with "all" goat milk, which is why I replied. * I think that pasteurizing might indeed make the curd set less firm. I don't usually pasteurize since I make only for myself (and friends that beg) * I don't know how you might measure the BF yourself. I send milk samples off to the dairy lab once in a while and they run them. Commercial goat dairies and many hobby farmers are on official DHIA test, like the cow dairies. I was for several years with my standard (non-mini) herd, many years ago. There are also official "one day" tests at many goat shows that will allow you to get milk stars on your animals. Proven production equals higher prices for your animals. paulainnevada Jack Schmidling wrote: > What breed are your goats? > > > > Two things here.... first of all most of those are soft cheeses and my > comments were directed at a Cheddar type cheese. Secondly, I > pasteurized the milk that I used so that might change things. > > > That's about 2% above the typical quoted in most books for goats. > > Do you know of some simple way to measure this fat content? How do you > arrive at that number? > > js > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20080106/832d086f/attachment-0002.html From creamcupminis at yahoo.com Sun Jan 6 12:46:25 2008 From: creamcupminis at yahoo.com (Creamcup Mini's) Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2008 09:46:25 -0800 Subject: [Cheese] [MC-SUSPECTED-SPAM] Re: making goat milk cheese? In-Reply-To: <47810C85.5040701@yahoo.com> References: <001401c84e2f$e25db2c0$6401a8c0@conrad3igswqs1> <477D75AA.4030304@mc.net> <20080103183627.10mw5ahoasg480oc@webmail.nebrwesleyan.edu> <477D879C.4070304@mc.net> <20080103211748.9raa48viss88cs00@webmail.nebrwesleyan.edu> <477E4D02.7040808@mc.net> <477EE0F2.4030003@yahoo.com> <477F8FBD.9040109@mc.net> <47810C85.5040701@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <478113F1.1090801@yahoo.com> I also meant to add that I do sometimes have problems in the summer with loss of fat from the cheddar (hard) types, and I think it is _because_ the fat content in the milk is too high. Another reason I don't do them much, any more. paulainnevada Creamcup Mini's wrote: > Ha, I have no idea which email I joined the list with, maybe this one??? > > * They are miniature LaManchas. This breed is part standard dairy la mancha and part nigerian, hence the higher butterfat. Nigerians can produce up to 7.5% butterfat. > > * Yes they are mostly soft; I freeze most of these for use during the winter, as well. I do make something that passes for cheddar, and sometimes gouda, but I prefer the others, and like to play with mold, so there you are. I believe you said you might need CACL with "all" goat milk, which is why I replied. > > * I think that pasteurizing might indeed make the curd set less firm. I don't usually pasteurize since I make only for myself (and friends that beg) > > * I don't know how you might measure the BF yourself. I send milk samples off to the dairy lab once in a while and they run them. Commercial goat dairies and many hobby farmers are on official DHIA test, like the cow dairies. I was for several years with my standard (non-mini) herd, many years ago. There are also official "one day" tests at many goat shows that will allow you to get milk stars on your animals. Proven production equals higher prices for your animals. > > paulainnevada > > > Jack Schmidling wrote: > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1211 - Release Date: 1/6/2008 11:57 AM > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20080106/f24f04a9/attachment-0002.html From njpackard at comcast.net Sun Jan 6 14:33:06 2008 From: njpackard at comcast.net (Nancy Packard) Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 11:33:06 -0800 Subject: [Cheese] cancel subscription Message-ID: <1E2E7AFC-D444-44D5-AC2D-38749E171EEB@comcast.net> Please remove my email address from your list. Thank you. From DreamTo at aol.com Sun Jan 6 22:46:33 2008 From: DreamTo at aol.com (DreamTo@aol.com) Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 22:46:33 EST Subject: [Cheese] cancel subscription Message-ID: good luck, I tried to get my name removed over a year ago and I'm still here. I just use the delete key! **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20080106/ea52dda0/attachment-0002.html From arf at mc.net Sun Jan 6 23:49:53 2008 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 04:49:53 -0000 Subject: [Cheese] cancel subscription In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F98AD40.80405@mc.net> DreamTo at aol.com wrote: > good luck, I tried to get my name removed over a year ago and I'm still > here. I just use the delete key! You might try removing yourself. Just go to the link at the end of every message do it. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From hogbrew at mtaonline.net Mon Jan 7 00:00:24 2008 From: hogbrew at mtaonline.net (John Vaughn) Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2008 20:00:24 -0900 Subject: [Cheese] cancel subscription In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4781B1E8.2060805@mtaonline.net> Can you read? If so, click on the link at the bottom of each message you receive and it will tell you the proper way to unsubscribe. DreamTo at aol.com wrote: > good luck, I tried to get my name removed over a year ago and I'm still > here. I just use the delete key! > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape > > in the new year. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese From kathy at badgerpressinc.com Mon Jan 7 09:56:45 2008 From: kathy at badgerpressinc.com (Kathy Dederich) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 08:56:45 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] cancel subscription References: Message-ID: <003001c8513d$867b46a0$837cfea9@DellInspiron> I believe you can do this yourself if you go to the website. Jack can walk you through this, if you need help, I'm sure. ----- Original Message ----- From: DreamTo at aol.com To: cheese at hbd.org Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 9:46 PM Subject: Re: [Cheese] cancel subscription good luck, I tried to get my name removed over a year ago and I'm still here. I just use the delete key! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Cheese mailing list Cheese at hbd.org http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20080107/6872e963/attachment-0002.html From knuckey4 at msn.com Mon Jan 7 11:49:09 2008 From: knuckey4 at msn.com (TOM KNUCKEY) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 08:49:09 -0800 Subject: [Cheese] cancel subscription References: <4781B1E8.2060805@mtaonline.net> Message-ID: Must you be so rude? Obviously I've tried that, as many others have, and still get your spam. ----- Original Message ----- From: John Vaughn To: The Cheese Makers' Digest Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 9:00 PM Subject: Re: [Cheese] cancel subscription Can you read? If so, click on the link at the bottom of each message you receive and it will tell you the proper way to unsubscribe. DreamTo at aol.com wrote: > good luck, I tried to get my name removed over a year ago and I'm still > here. I just use the delete key! > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape > > > in the new year. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese _______________________________________________ Cheese mailing list Cheese at hbd.org http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20080107/b2a8102a/attachment-0002.html From arf at mc.net Mon Jan 7 12:10:17 2008 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 09:10:17 -0800 Subject: [Cheese] cancel subscription In-Reply-To: References: <4781B1E8.2060805@mtaonline.net> Message-ID: <47825CF9.60504@mc.net> TOM KNUCKEY wrote: > Must you be so rude? Obviously I've tried that, as many others have, and still get your spam. There is nothing obvious about it. Lots of folks think moderators just sit around and wait for people to ask to be unsubscribed, not realizing that there is a proper way to do it. If you have indeed gone to > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese scrolled down to the unsubscribe button and unsubscribed and it didn't work, I will be happy to do it for you. But do it again before you respond. I get unsubscribe notices and subscribe notices every day, so obviously, I assume it works. If it doesn't, you have to tell me that it doesn't work. Just yelling "unsubscribe me" guarantees that you will be ignored. Spam is in the eye of the beholder and one might consider "unsubscribe me" to be spam on a list that makes it so simple and obvious how to do it. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From pbabcock at hbd.org Mon Jan 7 12:37:35 2008 From: pbabcock at hbd.org (Pat Babcock) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 12:37:35 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Cheese] How To Leave The List In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <53091.136.1.1.101.1199727455.squirrel@hbd.org> PEOPLE: If you want to leave the list, send the word "unsubscribe" to cheese-request at hbd.org, or visit http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese to manage your subscription on the web. Honestly! *ALL* RFC compliatn lists use the -request method! DO NOT SEND YOUR UNSUBSCRIBE REQUESTS TO THE POSTING ADDRESS!!! Thank you. -- See ya! Pat Babcock in SE Michigan Chief of HBD Janitorial Services http://hbd.org pbabcock at hbd.org From pbabcock at hbd.org Mon Jan 7 12:47:58 2008 From: pbabcock at hbd.org (Pat Babcock) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 12:47:58 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Cheese] Cheese Digest Message-ID: <17715.136.1.1.101.1199728078.squirrel@hbd.org> Following this message, I am manually deleting your addresses (knuckey4 at msn.com, dreamto at aol.com) from the subscription list. I am curious to know what methods you attempted to use in order to unsubscribe. Sendng "unsubscribe" to cheese-request at hbd.org works as I just used it to unsubscribe my own address as a test. Also, using the web interface at http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese worked as well. If you can relay your experience trying to unsubscribe, perhaps I can debug the system if it is, in fact, flawed. If you did not use either of these methods, that's OK, too - but be aware that there is no RFC-compliant mailing list on the planet that will be able to remove you from its listings if you will not follow their simple instructions. Others reading this that want to leave but have had difficulty unsubscribing, please use the automation provided as noted above. If that fails, feel free to notify me at mailman-owner at hbd.org. Thanks. -- See ya! Pat Babcock in SE Michigan Chief of HBD Janitorial Services http://hbd.org pbabcock at hbd.org From nate at allee.us Mon Jan 7 13:08:02 2008 From: nate at allee.us (Nathan Allee) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 13:08:02 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] cancel subscription In-Reply-To: <47825CF9.60504@mc.net> References: <4781B1E8.2060805@mtaonline.net> <47825CF9.60504@mc.net> Message-ID: <44b5f4210801071008s94b72d7ma361582bcb9005e9@mail.gmail.com> Are you sure you're unsubscribing the correct email address? I had trouble with that one time on a different list. If you're like me and have more than one email addy, try unsubscribing all of them, even old ones. Peace, +N On Jan 7, 2008 12:10 PM, Jack Schmidling wrote: > TOM KNUCKEY wrote: > > Must you be so rude? Obviously I've tried that, as many others have, and > still get your spam. > > There is nothing obvious about it. > > Lots of folks think moderators just sit around and wait for people to > ask to be unsubscribed, not realizing that there is a proper way to do it. > > If you have indeed gone to > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > > scrolled down to the unsubscribe button and unsubscribed and it didn't > work, I will be happy to do it for you. But do it again before you > respond. > > I get unsubscribe notices and subscribe notices every day, so obviously, > I assume it works. If it doesn't, you have to tell me that it doesn't > work. Just yelling "unsubscribe me" guarantees that you will be ignored. > > Spam is in the eye of the beholder and one might consider "unsubscribe > me" to be spam on a list that makes it so simple and obvious how to do it. > > js > > > -- > PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm > Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20080107/4f0cdac8/attachment-0002.html From dwyounger at comcast.net Mon Jan 7 15:37:08 2008 From: dwyounger at comcast.net (dwyounger@comcast.net) Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 20:37:08 +0000 Subject: [Cheese] Waxing cheese Message-ID: <010720082037.11181.47828D740008025600002BAD22155751149D0A09029A0197990B@comcast.net> I'm a very new home cheese maker, and have tried Cheddar twice. In preparing the wax I heat it in my oven to 250F to sterilize and melt. At the end of about 20 min. the melted wax is taken from the oven and I use this to brush on the finished dry cheese surface. Let the surface wax cool and then add a 2nd coat. Within about 2 weeks at 55F the waxed surface forms pin holes. These pin holes cause mold to form. What am I doing wrong? Thanks much, Duane -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20080107/f1f61e90/attachment-0002.html From arf at mc.net Mon Jan 7 23:25:43 2008 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 20:25:43 -0800 Subject: [Cheese] cancel subscription In-Reply-To: <44b5f4210801071008s94b72d7ma361582bcb9005e9@mail.gmail.com> References: <4781B1E8.2060805@mtaonline.net> <47825CF9.60504@mc.net> <44b5f4210801071008s94b72d7ma361582bcb9005e9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4782FB47.5030200@mc.net> Nathan Allee wrote: > Are you sure you're unsubscribing the correct email address? I had trouble > with that one time on a different list. Very good point. I get bounced messages regularly from members who post messages from addresses that are not their membership address. Make sure you post from the same address as your membership. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From arf at mc.net Mon Jan 7 23:41:57 2008 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 20:41:57 -0800 Subject: [Cheese] Waxing cheese In-Reply-To: <010720082037.11181.47828D740008025600002BAD22155751149D0A09029A0197990B@comcast.net> References: <010720082037.11181.47828D740008025600002BAD22155751149D0A09029A0197990B@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4782FF15.8020506@mc.net> dwyounger at comcast.net wrote: > I'm a very new home cheese maker, and have tried Cheddar twice. > > In preparing the wax I heat it in my oven to 250F to sterilize and > melt. At the end of about 20 min. the melted wax is taken from the > oven and I use this to brush on the finished dry cheese surface. Let > the surface wax cool and then add a 2nd coat. Within about 2 weeks > at 55F the waxed surface forms pin holes. These pin holes cause mold > to form. > What am I doing wrong? Just doing what most books tell you to do. Unfortunately, they are based on bad information motivated by paranoia and fear of lawsuits. One of the important aspects of waxing is the opportunity to sterilize the surface before it goes into aging. Brushing warm wax on a cold cheese is just a feel good procedure. It cools almost instantly when applied to the cheese. The proper way to wax cheese is to dip it for at least 10 seconds in wax at a temperature of at least 220F. Dip it a bit more than half way and when the wax hardens, dip the other half. This should be repeated one more time to get a good solid coating. This is not a task for the timid but doing anything else is a waste of time. I keep a kettle that is about half full of wax and heat it to 220F on the stove. I put a digital meat thermometer with an alarm set at 200F and stay within earshot at all times while the heat is on. If I have to leave the area for any reason, I turn the flame down as low as it will go. The first dip is easy as the cheese provides a fairly non-slip surface. Once it is waxed, I find it slips through the fingers too easily so I wear latex gloves which seem to provide a safe grip. Experiment to find what works best, as dropping the cheese in hot wax could be most unpleasant. There are alternatives to waxing but I have not been very adventuresome in that regard and I know there are others on the list who never wax so I will let them describe their methods. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From jack at schmidling.com Mon Jan 7 23:45:37 2008 From: jack at schmidling.com (Jack Schmidling) Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 20:45:37 -0800 Subject: [Cheese] Archives Message-ID: <4782FFF1.30806@schmidling.com> The archives have been fixed. If you still see only 2005 postings, hit the refresh key and all will be displayed. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From wrt at sei.cmu.edu Tue Jan 8 12:21:22 2008 From: wrt at sei.cmu.edu (William Thomas) Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 12:21:22 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] Waxing cheese In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4783B112.1020206@sei.cmu.edu> I'm new to cheesemaking and have found that waxing (like everything else) seems to take some practice. I recently used the approach Jack described. I have a small pot that I use exclusively for waxing. The advantage here is that I just let it cool then stash the pot, wax and all, with my other cheesemaking supplies. A couple of thoughts: - If I cut my pressed, two-pound cheese in half, I can entirely submerge each piece in the wax. This alleviates the "dip one half, then dip the other half" problem -- which I've tried and dropped the very slippery waxed cheese, splashing hot wax everywhere. This is to be avoided(!) But I wonder whether I'm making a mistake in cutting the pressed cheese like this? Is there some reason that the pressed two-pound cylinder should remain whole at this stage? I just tried this, so it'll be several weeks before I test it. I'm thinking that one advantage, besides ease of waxing, is that I can age the two halves for different periods. - The Rikki Carroll home cheesemaking book says to double boil the wax, but when I've tried that I've had trouble getting the temperature into the mid 200s. It sounds like Jack heats the wax pot directly on the burner. I did this the last time, and I'm able to get the temperature higher, and reheat the wax easily. But there's more risk that the wax will form bubbles and pop, making a small shower of hot wax -- a potentially dangerous, and messy, situation. From dwyounger at comcast.net Tue Jan 8 14:58:57 2008 From: dwyounger at comcast.net (dwyounger@comcast.net) Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 19:58:57 +0000 Subject: [Cheese] Waxing cheese Message-ID: <010820081958.9608.4783D6010005D8020000258822155612649D0A09029A0197990B@comcast.net> Jack, Thanks for all the good info. I will try dipping the cheese in wax instead of brushing, during the next cheese making. A question: Are you also a homebrewer who has written some articles about the craft? Duane -------------- Original message -------------- From: Jack Schmidling > dwyounger at comcast.net wrote: > > I'm a very new home cheese maker, and have tried Cheddar twice. > > > > In preparing the wax I heat it in my oven to 250F to sterilize and > > melt. At the end of about 20 min. the melted wax is taken from the > > oven and I use this to brush on the finished dry cheese surface. Let > > the surface wax cool and then add a 2nd coat. Within about 2 weeks > > at 55F the waxed surface forms pin holes. These pin holes cause mold > > to form. > > > What am I doing wrong? > > Just doing what most books tell you to do. Unfortunately, they are > based on bad information motivated by paranoia and fear of lawsuits. > > One of the important aspects of waxing is the opportunity to sterilize > the surface before it goes into aging. Brushing warm wax on a cold > cheese is just a feel good procedure. It cools almost instantly when > applied to the cheese. > > The proper way to wax cheese is to dip it for at least 10 seconds in wax > at a temperature of at least 220F. Dip it a bit more than half way and > when the wax hardens, dip the other half. This should be repeated one > more time to get a good solid coating. > > This is not a task for the timid but doing anything else is a waste of time. > > I keep a kettle that is about half full of wax and heat it to 220F on > the stove. I put a digital meat thermometer with an alarm set at 200F > and stay within earshot at all times while the heat is on. If I have to > leave the area for any reason, I turn the flame down as low as it will go. > > The first dip is easy as the cheese provides a fairly non-slip surface. > Once it is waxed, I find it slips through the fingers too easily so I > wear latex gloves which seem to provide a safe grip. Experiment to find > what works best, as dropping the cheese in hot wax could be most unpleasant. > > There are alternatives to waxing but I have not been very adventuresome > in that regard and I know there are others on the list who never wax so > I will let them describe their methods. > > js > > -- > PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm > Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20080108/23231c1d/attachment-0002.html From dwyounger at comcast.net Tue Jan 8 14:51:59 2008 From: dwyounger at comcast.net (dwyounger@comcast.net) Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 19:51:59 +0000 Subject: [Cheese] Waxing cheese Message-ID: <010820081951.19600.4783D45F00093F2900004C9022155612649D0A09029A0197990B@comcast.net> William, Thanks much, I will try dipping the cheese. I have not had a problem with heating the cheese in our kitchen oven, as yet. I set the temp at 240F and it has worked OK. Duane -------------- Original message -------------- From: William Thomas > I'm new to cheesemaking and have found that waxing (like everything > else) seems to take some practice. I recently used the approach Jack > described. I have a small pot that I use exclusively for waxing. The > advantage here is that I just let it cool then stash the pot, wax and > all, with my other cheesemaking supplies. > > A couple of thoughts: > - If I cut my pressed, two-pound cheese in half, I can entirely submerge > each piece in the wax. This alleviates the "dip one half, then dip the > other half" problem -- which I've tried and dropped the very slippery > waxed cheese, splashing hot wax everywhere. This is to be avoided(!) But > I wonder whether I'm making a mistake in cutting the pressed cheese like > this? Is there some reason that the pressed two-pound cylinder should > remain whole at this stage? I just tried this, so it'll be several weeks > before I test it. I'm thinking that one advantage, besides ease of > waxing, is that I can age the two halves for different periods. > - The Rikki Carroll home cheesemaking book says to double boil the wax, > but when I've tried that I've had trouble getting the temperature into > the mid 200s. It sounds like Jack heats the wax pot directly on the > burner. I did this the last time, and I'm able to get the temperature > higher, and reheat the wax easily. But there's more risk that the wax > will form bubbles and pop, making a small shower of hot wax -- a > potentially dangerous, and messy, situation. > > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20080108/41a99c71/attachment-0002.html From kymberlyn at pangaiafarm.com Tue Jan 8 22:20:36 2008 From: kymberlyn at pangaiafarm.com (KT) Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 22:20:36 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] sheep milk? References: <001401c84e2f$e25db2c0$6401a8c0@conrad3igswqs1> <477D75AA.4030304@mc.net> Message-ID: <038701c8526e$a0ae8050$0400000a@vaio> Hello everyone, I have a few questions that I'm hoping someone can help me with. 1 - Does anyone on this list use sheep milk? What results have you had with firm or hard cheeses? 2 - I have fresh sheep and goat milk that is frozen. It thaws out just fine, the cream is a little clumpy but it still curdles as though it were fresh. Is there any reason why this couldn't be used for cheese? Do I loose too much fat due to the clumping cream? (It's clumped up almost like whipped butter - only heat will return it to a liquid form.) 3 - Other than bad taste, is there really such a thing as bad cheese? Bad as in contaminated. Could someone get sick from a bad cheese? Thanks for any help that you can offer. Kym From arf at mc.net Wed Jan 9 00:00:21 2008 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 21:00:21 -0800 Subject: [Cheese] Waxing cheese In-Reply-To: <010820081958.9608.4783D6010005D8020000258822155612649D0A09029A0197990B@comcast.net> References: <010820081958.9608.4783D6010005D8020000258822155612649D0A09029A0197990B@comcast.net> Message-ID: <478454E5.8070705@mc.net> dwyounger at comcast.net wrote: > A question: Are you also a homebrewer who has written some articles > about the craft? Yes but you may be interested to know that many if not most of the readers of this list are homebrewers. In fact it was started by the founder of the Home Brew Digest as in hbd.org. Pat Babcock started both. Cheese making and brewing have so much in common that it is not surprising that many of us do both. It is also interesting that when I started brewing, there was no roller mill available that amateurs could afford so I built one for my own use and we have been selling about 1000 a year ever since. Same story with cheese... no affordable cheese press so I made one and now sell almost as many as MaltMills. Must be in my genes. A browse of my Beer Pages will provide more than you ever wanted to know about homebrewing. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From arf at mc.net Wed Jan 9 00:16:38 2008 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 21:16:38 -0800 Subject: [Cheese] Waxing cheese In-Reply-To: <4783B112.1020206@sei.cmu.edu> References: <4783B112.1020206@sei.cmu.edu> Message-ID: <478458B6.4090902@mc.net> William Thomas wrote: > But > I wonder whether I'm making a mistake in cutting the pressed cheese like > this? Is there some reason that the pressed two-pound cylinder should > remain whole at this stage? I just tried this, so it'll be several weeks > before I test it. I'm thinking that one advantage, besides ease of > waxing, is that I can age the two halves for different periods. But neither will be the same as the whole cheese aged in one piece. The bigger the cheese, the more consistent will be the aging process and the finished cheese. Smaller cheeses also tend to dry out and end up grating cheese. I assume you are talking about a Cheddar type cheese which ages for months or years. A Gouda type cheese or any washed cheese would not suffer at all and are usually eaten before any problem would occur. We settled on a two gallon cheese press because that seems like the minimum batch size to make a really good cheese. > - The Rikki Carroll home cheesemaking book says to double boil the wax It's the paranoia syndrome. Afraid to get sued and clueless about the flash point which is way above the necessary dipping temp. > It sounds like Jack heats the wax pot directly on the > burner. I did this the last time, and I'm able to get the temperature > higher, and reheat the wax easily. But there's more risk that the wax > will form bubbles and pop, making a small shower of hot wax Never had any such problem. Where would the bubbles come from? You certainly aren't going to boil the wax at 220F. The only other source of bubbles would be if there is water in the pot. It is heavier than wax so will stay on the bottom and boil. It will soon boil away but you should avoid getting water in there in the first place. Just let it sit around 212 till the water evaporates before letting it go to 220F if that is the problem. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From arf at mc.net Wed Jan 9 00:25:44 2008 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 21:25:44 -0800 Subject: [Cheese] sheep milk? In-Reply-To: <038701c8526e$a0ae8050$0400000a@vaio> References: <001401c84e2f$e25db2c0$6401a8c0@conrad3igswqs1> <477D75AA.4030304@mc.net> <038701c8526e$a0ae8050$0400000a@vaio> Message-ID: <47845AD8.6080907@mc.net> KT wrote: > 1 - Does anyone on this list use sheep milk? What results have you had with > firm or hard cheeses? We have a ewe ready to lamb any day now and I might try this year. It was all new last year and her/our first so we just watched. > 3 - Other than bad taste, is there really such a thing as bad cheese? Bad > as in contaminated. Could someone get sick from a bad cheese? The pasteurization process basically stop TB in it's track so the is/was yes. However, it is so rare these days that the answer is probably no. The acid and salt in aged cheese pretty much preclude pathogen growth. That's not to say they might not smell or taste pretty raunchy. I have never made a cheese that I couldn't eat and always suggest tasting before tossing. It is also interesting to note that the FDA says unpasteurized cheese must be aged for a minimum of 3 months (could be off by a month). Which means that you don't want to eat cottage cheese from unpasteurized milk but a two year old Cheddar is like money in the bank. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From bac at NebrWesleyan.edu Wed Jan 9 11:07:00 2008 From: bac at NebrWesleyan.edu (Barbara Cornelius) Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2008 10:07:00 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] sheep milk? In-Reply-To: <47845AD8.6080907@mc.net> References: <001401c84e2f$e25db2c0$6401a8c0@conrad3igswqs1> <477D75AA.4030304@mc.net> <038701c8526e$a0ae8050$0400000a@vaio> <47845AD8.6080907@mc.net> Message-ID: <20080109100700.qc1f63r0rk0osckk@webmail.nebrwesleyan.edu> Quoting Jack Schmidling : > KT wrote: > >> > >> 3 - Other than bad taste, is there really such a thing as bad cheese?? Bad >> as in contaminated.? Could someone get sick from a bad cheese? > > The pasteurization process basically stop TB in it's track so the is/was > yes.? However, it is so rare these days that the answer is probably no. Yes, you can get sick from bad cheese. By bad I mean 'contaminated.' The common offender is listeria, which can contaminate pasteurized milk cheeses as well as raw. In fact, most illness outbreaks come from cheese made from pasteurized milk that was contaminated *after* pasteurization. > > The acid and salt in aged cheese pretty much preclude pathogen growth. > That's not to say they might not smell or taste pretty raunchy. >It is also interesting to note that the FDA says unpasteurized cheese > must be aged for a minimum of 3 months (could be off by a month).? Which > ? ?means that you don't want to eat cottage cheese from unpasteurized > milk but a two year old Cheddar is like money in the bank. Aging cheese does indeed preclude pathogen growth, for the most part, although recent experiments on raw milk cheeses indicate that it doesn't kill off everything. In the US, cheeses made from raw milk must be aged for at least 60 days before they can be legally sold. However, there is ridiculous talk to ban ALL raw milk cheeses, just because there *may* be some pathogens remaining in the cheese after 60 days. This is, of course, crazy. People have eaten raw milk cheeses for thousands of years, and if I remember correctly there have been no outbreaks of illness in countries like France (which still allow raw milk fresh cheeses) in over 50 years. I use raw milk to make fresh and aged cheeses, including cottage cheese, farmer's cheese (similar to chevre), camembert, and a tomme-style cheese I call "Capricow." I drink raw milk, put it in my coffee, I make yogurt from it, and I skim the cream to make ice cream. I most definitely DO want to eat raw milk cheeses, no matter what their age. The difference in flavor, even for the fresh cheeses, is amazing. If you have a local source for raw milk, give it? try! Barbara -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20080109/31f1e070/attachment-0002.html From irichard at intergate.ca Wed Jan 9 17:50:35 2008 From: irichard at intergate.ca (Ian Richards) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 14:50:35 -0800 Subject: [Cheese] Lactose free Message-ID: My wife is lactose intolerant. I see that there are cheeses in my supermarket that are "lactose free" How can I make a cheese that is lactose free. Cheers From Weber8533 at cecomet.net Thu Jan 10 00:50:32 2008 From: Weber8533 at cecomet.net (Weber) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 00:50:32 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] sheep milk? References: <001401c84e2f$e25db2c0$6401a8c0@conrad3igswqs1> <477D75AA.4030304@mc.net><038701c8526e$a0ae8050$0400000a@vaio> <47845AD8.6080907@mc.net> Message-ID: <00c801c8534e$124586c0$0400000a@vaio> Thanks for the information Jack. Congratulations on the upcoming lamb(s). I bet you are excited - for both the birth and for the start of milking season. Kym ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack Schmidling" To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 12:25 AM Subject: Re: [Cheese] sheep milk? > KT wrote: > >> 1 - Does anyone on this list use sheep milk? What results have you had >> with >> firm or hard cheeses? > > We have a ewe ready to lamb any day now and I might try this year. It > was all new last year and her/our first so we just watched. > > >> 3 - Other than bad taste, is there really such a thing as bad cheese? >> Bad >> as in contaminated. Could someone get sick from a bad cheese? > > The pasteurization process basically stop TB in it's track so the is/was > yes. However, it is so rare these days that the answer is probably no. > > The acid and salt in aged cheese pretty much preclude pathogen growth. > That's not to say they might not smell or taste pretty raunchy. > > I have never made a cheese that I couldn't eat and always suggest > tasting before tossing. > > It is also interesting to note that the FDA says unpasteurized cheese > must be aged for a minimum of 3 months (could be off by a month). Which > means that you don't want to eat cottage cheese from unpasteurized > milk but a two year old Cheddar is like money in the bank. > > > > js > > -- > PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm > Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese From keefejoseph at msn.com Thu Jan 10 09:24:30 2008 From: keefejoseph at msn.com (Joseph Keefe) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 06:24:30 -0800 Subject: [Cheese] (no subject) Message-ID: Please remove me from your group email. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20080110/2c33e217/attachment-0002.html From marquimp at gmail.com Thu Jan 10 09:39:37 2008 From: marquimp at gmail.com (Michael Marquis) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 09:39:37 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <914c35fb0801100639l30a9cbaawbe18ceb180ab1eca@mail.gmail.com> please remove me as well On Jan 10, 2008 9:24 AM, Joseph Keefe wrote: > > > Please remove me from your group email. > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > > From peter at naeslund.dk Thu Jan 10 12:39:10 2008 From: peter at naeslund.dk (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Peter_N=E6slund_M=F8ller?=) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 18:39:10 +0100 Subject: [Cheese] Lactose free References: Message-ID: <001601c853af$b5ab3e20$6a4dd458@tissemand> Ideally any lactose left in the curds will be consumed by the still active bacteria in the curds, Atleast to the point where the pH reaches 4.6 or so ( this is where the acid present in the product starts inhibiting the bacterial action ) Ideally you want your cheese to end up with a pH around 5.25 12 hours after pressing.. This parameter can be controlled by adjusting the adjusting the amount of lactose left in the curds.. The key to doing this is replacing whey with warm water when cooking the curds.. In large scale cheese production ( wich I was involved in until recently ) you typically remove 30-60% of the whey and replace with water.. The lactose is dissolved in the whey and by replacing the whey with water you remove 30-60% of the lactose while keeping the total quantity constant.. Example: 100 kg of milk makes roughly 10 kg of cheese and 90 kg of whey.. Milk contains approx. 4.5% lactose IOW your cheese vat contains 4.5 kg of lactose ( lactose content doesnt change notably for the pH drop you see before you start cooking ) Remove 60 kg of whey ( 2.7 kg lactose ) and add 60 kg of water Lactose content is now 1.8% Once you start pressing you remove 90 kg of whey ( 1.62 kg lactose ) Lactose content in the cheese is now 1.08% When cooling the cheese it will lose another kg of whey ( 10.8 g ) Total lactose content in the 9 kg of cheese is now 169.2 g or 1.88% Most of this will be consumed by the bacteria from the starter culture, but its hard to tell exactly how much without expensive lab equipment.. I wasnt involved in the QC department at the place I worked, but I thing we were talking less than 1% lactose in the finished product as a rule of thumb.. Did that make any sense? /peter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ian Richards" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 11:50 PM Subject: [Cheese] Lactose free > My wife is lactose intolerant. > I see that there are cheeses in my supermarket that are "lactose free" > How can I make a cheese that is lactose free. > > Cheers > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > From arf at mc.net Thu Jan 10 23:05:23 2008 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 20:05:23 -0800 Subject: [Cheese] sheep milk? In-Reply-To: <00c801c8534e$124586c0$0400000a@vaio> References: <001401c84e2f$e25db2c0$6401a8c0@conrad3igswqs1> <477D75AA.4030304@mc.net><038701c8526e$a0ae8050$0400000a@vaio> <47845AD8.6080907@mc.net> <00c801c8534e$124586c0$0400000a@vaio> Message-ID: <4786EB03.60905@mc.net> Weber wrote: > Thanks for the information Jack. Congratulations on the upcoming lamb(s). > I bet you are excited - for both the birth and for the start of milking > season. After today, I think milking is above my pay grade. Yesterday was the big day... Twins! One white and one black. Bad news was Mom was dry. I tried everything but could not get a drop of milk out of her. Went to a neighbor farm and borrowed a nipple and some lamb starter and tried coaxing them to taking it till Midnight. Got up and five and tried again. Called the vet and he sent me on a two hour trip to get some goat milk from another not-so neighbor farmer. Went to town to get some baby bottles and new nipples and could not get them to drink that either. The vet showed up about noon and picked up a lamb and said his tummy is full. He then reached under Mom and came back with his hands covered with milk. So much for being a dairy maid. Good news is the lady with the goats sells her milk for $3 a gallon so I am going to give that a try again. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From l.adams at xtra.co.nz Fri Jan 11 01:22:46 2008 From: l.adams at xtra.co.nz (Lee Adams) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 18:22:46 +1200 Subject: [Cheese] Calcium chloride again! Message-ID: Hi all, Just a new member needing some mathematical help please. I can only obtain solid CaCl2 80% By my calculations if I make myself an 8% stock solution I will need to add 1.0ml of this to 4 Litres of milk to obtain a conc of 0.02% CaCl2. Would appreciate it if someone could check my calculations please. And regarding Ca ions what is the result if too many are added to the milk? Thank you Regards Lee From arf at mc.net Fri Jan 11 09:00:36 2008 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 06:00:36 -0800 Subject: [Cheese] Calcium chloride again! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <47877684.4040009@mc.net> Lee Adams wrote: > Hi all, > Just a new member needing some mathematical help please. > I can only obtain solid CaCl2 80% I didn't check your math but you can buy the proper solution dirt cheap from any cheesemaking supplier. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From derekbradford at gmail.com Fri Jan 11 09:46:37 2008 From: derekbradford at gmail.com (Derek Bradford) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 23:46:37 +0900 Subject: [Cheese] Calcium chloride again! In-Reply-To: <47877684.4040009@mc.net> References: <47877684.4040009@mc.net> Message-ID: <799e8cd60801110646j629e5ba1t5b6405e9978655a8@mail.gmail.com> On Jan 11, 2008 11:00 PM, Jack Schmidling wrote: > Lee Adams wrote: > > Hi all, > > Just a new member needing some mathematical help please. > > I can only obtain solid CaCl2 80% > > > > I didn't check your math but you can buy the proper solution dirt cheap > from any cheesemaking supplier. > Could be someone like me and lives several thousand kilometers from the nearest cheese supply shop. Living overseas highlights the sheer number of people who won't ship internationally, not to mention adding 10 or 20 bucks to a 2 dollar item. Something to think about... --Derek -- Every path but your own is the path of fate. --Thoreau -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20080111/31fc3563/attachment-0002.html From kathy at badgerpressinc.com Fri Jan 11 09:58:17 2008 From: kathy at badgerpressinc.com (Kathy Dederich) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 08:58:17 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] sheep milk? References: <001401c84e2f$e25db2c0$6401a8c0@conrad3igswqs1> <477D75AA.4030304@mc.net><038701c8526e$a0ae8050$0400000a@vaio> <47845AD8.6080907@mc.net><00c801c8534e$124586c0$0400000a@vaio> <4786EB03.60905@mc.net> Message-ID: <001601c85462$668c0640$837cfea9@DellInspiron> Jack, Will you be posting pictures of the lambs? Glad to hear everyone is doing well. BTB, the woman w/goats...is she in McHenry county? Does she have a surplus she'd be willing to sell? Please let me know. Thanks! Kathy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack Schmidling" To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 10:05 PM Subject: Re: [Cheese] sheep milk? > Weber wrote: >> Thanks for the information Jack. Congratulations on the upcoming >> lamb(s). >> I bet you are excited - for both the birth and for the start of milking >> season. > > After today, I think milking is above my pay grade. > > Yesterday was the big day... Twins! One white and one black. > > Bad news was Mom was dry. I tried everything but could not get a drop > of milk out of her. Went to a neighbor farm and borrowed a nipple and > some lamb starter and tried coaxing them to taking it till Midnight. > > Got up and five and tried again. Called the vet and he sent me on a two > hour trip to get some goat milk from another not-so neighbor farmer. > > Went to town to get some baby bottles and new nipples and could not get > them to drink that either. > > The vet showed up about noon and picked up a lamb and said his tummy is > full. He then reached under Mom and came back with his hands covered > with milk. > > So much for being a dairy maid. Good news is the lady with the goats > sells her milk for $3 a gallon so I am going to give that a try again. > > js > > -- > PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm > Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > From arf at mc.net Fri Jan 11 18:38:58 2008 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 15:38:58 -0800 Subject: [Cheese] sheep milk? In-Reply-To: <001601c85462$668c0640$837cfea9@DellInspiron> References: <001401c84e2f$e25db2c0$6401a8c0@conrad3igswqs1> <477D75AA.4030304@mc.net><038701c8526e$a0ae8050$0400000a@vaio> <47845AD8.6080907@mc.net><00c801c8534e$124586c0$0400000a@vaio> <4786EB03.60905@mc.net> <001601c85462$668c0640$837cfea9@DellInspiron> Message-ID: <4787FE12.30604@mc.net> Kathy Dederich wrote: > Will you be posting pictures of the lambs? Glad to hear everyone is doing > well. You bet. Watch for the Photo of the Week coming up. > BTB, the woman w/goats...is she in McHenry county? Does she have a surplus > she'd be willing to sell? Not sure what county but it's not McHenry. Burlington is the name of the nearest town. She is about 20 miles south of Marengo. She in the process of drying them up so give her a call and see what you can work out. Sheryl Landeck 815 751 0991 js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From arf at mc.net Fri Jan 11 19:09:42 2008 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 16:09:42 -0800 Subject: [Cheese] Calcium chloride again! In-Reply-To: <799e8cd60801110646j629e5ba1t5b6405e9978655a8@mail.gmail.com> References: <47877684.4040009@mc.net> <799e8cd60801110646j629e5ba1t5b6405e9978655a8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <47880546.2030700@mc.net> Derek Bradford wrote: > Could be someone like me and lives several thousand kilometers from the > nearest cheese supply shop. How easy we forget. Try the Grape and Granary they ship our presses all over the world. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From derekbradford at gmail.com Fri Jan 11 19:23:22 2008 From: derekbradford at gmail.com (Derek Bradford) Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 09:23:22 +0900 Subject: [Cheese] Calcium chloride again! In-Reply-To: <47880546.2030700@mc.net> References: <47877684.4040009@mc.net> <799e8cd60801110646j629e5ba1t5b6405e9978655a8@mail.gmail.com> <47880546.2030700@mc.net> Message-ID: <799e8cd60801111623p31b757a2kdb7e20681ea32d9a@mail.gmail.com> On Jan 12, 2008 9:09 AM, Jack Schmidling wrote: > Derek Bradford wrote: > > > Could be someone like me and lives several thousand kilometers from the > > nearest cheese supply shop. > > How easy we forget. > > Try the Grape and Granary they ship our > presses all over the world. > Yes, they do. I buy from them whenever I need stuff. But if all a guy needs is CaCl and some strange concentration is available for 30 cents down the street, why not try to first work with that? --Derek -- Every path but your own is the path of fate. --Thoreau -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20080112/3174b2fc/attachment-0002.html From arf at mc.net Fri Jan 11 23:34:16 2008 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 20:34:16 -0800 Subject: [Cheese] Calcium chloride again! In-Reply-To: <799e8cd60801111623p31b757a2kdb7e20681ea32d9a@mail.gmail.com> References: <47877684.4040009@mc.net> <799e8cd60801110646j629e5ba1t5b6405e9978655a8@mail.gmail.com> <47880546.2030700@mc.net> <799e8cd60801111623p31b757a2kdb7e20681ea32d9a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <47884348.30807@mc.net> Derek Bradford wrote: > Yes, they do. I buy from them whenever I need stuff. But if all a guy > needs is CaCl and some strange concentration is available for 30 cents down > the street, why not try to first work with that? Why not. Just add .2 grams per liter of milk to a cup of water and stir it in. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From nblattar at gmail.com Mon Jan 14 02:39:20 2008 From: nblattar at gmail.com (Nabil Attar) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 09:39:20 +0200 Subject: [Cheese] Blue wheel problem Message-ID: Hey guys... this is my first post to this list, but i am a friend of /peter and Jack S (if they accept me as friend) I have 3 pounds wheel of blue wrapped in normal food foil, i made it on 1 Nov 2007, been wrapped for month or so ago, i checked it , and found that it is wet from both side (up and down) (which have been peirced) the water is clear drops, i pat it and it is still dripping, the smell is good, feels hard to touch and still firm, the colors are redish and very dark blue... I am curing it in temp between 2C to 10C. why ? was it wrong to wrapped before the third month? i guess i wrapped on 20/Dec so month and half, and what shall i do now ? Nabil From arf at mc.net Mon Jan 14 12:27:17 2008 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 09:27:17 -0800 Subject: [Cheese] Blue wheel problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <478B9B75.9060003@mc.net> Nabil Attar wrote: > Hey guys... this is my first post to this list, but i am a friend of > /peter and Jack S (if they accept me as friend) We will have to check with Bush to see if we can be friends. He may have added Syria to his axis of evil. I don't really have an answer to your question but I would not wrap a blue in anything like foil. If it is a Stilton type, it should have access to air and just be wiped and rubbed on a regular basis. It needs humidity to develop but I find the best way to control that is in a plastic shoe box with a lid opened slightly. I am sure others can be more help but that is the way I see it. Just rub it down with you hands to smoothe it over and let it rest uncovered for awhile. Put a couple of sticks under it so moisture does not collect there. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From blklab70 at yahoo.com Mon Jan 14 14:56:09 2008 From: blklab70 at yahoo.com (jacque coleman) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 11:56:09 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Cheese] Blue wheel problem In-Reply-To: <478B9B75.9060003@mc.net> Message-ID: <976356.71884.qm@web30413.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I want my email removed and can not seem to get it done. please help! No more to blklab70 at yahoo.com Don't need politics in this forum. Jack Schmidling wrote: Nabil Attar wrote: > Hey guys... this is my first post to this list, but i am a friend of > /peter and Jack S (if they accept me as friend) We will have to check with Bush to see if we can be friends. He may have added Syria to his axis of evil. I don't really have an answer to your question but I would not wrap a blue in anything like foil. If it is a Stilton type, it should have access to air and just be wiped and rubbed on a regular basis. It needs humidity to develop but I find the best way to control that is in a plastic shoe box with a lid opened slightly. I am sure others can be more help but that is the way I see it. Just rub it down with you hands to smoothe it over and let it rest uncovered for awhile. Put a couple of sticks under it so moisture does not collect there. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com _______________________________________________ Cheese mailing list Cheese at hbd.org http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the number of moments that take our breath away. --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20080114/d5f87c14/attachment-0002.html From slaycock at discoverynet.com Tue Jan 15 13:09:48 2008 From: slaycock at discoverynet.com (slaycock@discoverynet.com) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 12:09:48 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Cheese] Appropriate Cheese's for Medieval feast Message-ID: <4190.216.89.188.25.1200420588.squirrel@mail.discoverynet.com> Greetings, I'm a long time lurker and novice cheese maker at best... I have a medieval feast to attend for our homeschooling coop group in 11 days. Today I found out that my wife will be bringing cheese for this event. I have raw holstein milk readily available. I almost expect that goat's milk was the norm for this time period? What cheese would be appropriate for such time period as medieval? And also what would be a cheese I could make on this short notice that would be similar to what they consumed in those days of old. thanks for any advice. Steve -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From blklab70 at yahoo.com Tue Jan 15 14:13:05 2008 From: blklab70 at yahoo.com (jacque coleman) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 11:13:05 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Cheese] Appropriate Cheese's for Medieval feast In-Reply-To: <4190.216.89.188.25.1200420588.squirrel@mail.discoverynet.com> Message-ID: <525801.20839.qm@web30407.mail.mud.yahoo.com> remove my email from the list please. slaycock at discoverynet.com wrote: Greetings, I'm a long time lurker and novice cheese maker at best... I have a medieval feast to attend for our homeschooling coop group in 11 days. Today I found out that my wife will be bringing cheese for this event. I have raw holstein milk readily available. I almost expect that goat's milk was the norm for this time period? What cheese would be appropriate for such time period as medieval? And also what would be a cheese I could make on this short notice that would be similar to what they consumed in those days of old. thanks for any advice. Steve -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. _______________________________________________ Cheese mailing list Cheese at hbd.org http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the number of moments that take our breath away. --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20080115/62e0bfa5/attachment-0002.html From marquimp at gmail.com Tue Jan 15 17:33:19 2008 From: marquimp at gmail.com (Michael Marquis) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 17:33:19 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] Take me off the email list Message-ID: <914c35fb0801151433l472c04c7hbe8b545412101904@mail.gmail.com> Please remove me from the email list.. this is my 2nd request Thank You From keefejoseph at msn.com Tue Jan 15 17:56:55 2008 From: keefejoseph at msn.com (Joseph Keefe) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 14:56:55 -0800 Subject: [Cheese] Take me off the email list References: <914c35fb0801151433l472c04c7hbe8b545412101904@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: good luck with that Mike. I've been trying to get off of it for 2 fucking years. ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Marquis To: Cheese at hbd.org Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 2:33 PM Subject: [Cheese] Take me off the email list Please remove me from the email list.. this is my 2nd request Thank You _______________________________________________ Cheese mailing list Cheese at hbd.org http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20080115/4382105f/attachment-0002.html From robmanvell at bigpond.com Tue Jan 15 19:52:36 2008 From: robmanvell at bigpond.com (Robert Manvell) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 11:52:36 +1100 Subject: [Cheese] Take me off the email list References: <914c35fb0801151433l472c04c7hbe8b545412101904@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <001d01c857da$1655fc00$0100000a@dunno> Why don't you put a block in your email priorities? Regards Rob ----- Original Message ----- From: Joseph Keefe To: The Cheese Makers' Digest Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 9:56 AM Subject: Re: [Cheese] Take me off the email list good luck with that Mike. I've been trying to get off of it for 2 fucking years. ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Marquis To: Cheese at hbd.org Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 2:33 PM Subject: [Cheese] Take me off the email list Please remove me from the email list.. this is my 2nd request Thank You _______________________________________________ Cheese mailing list Cheese at hbd.org http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Cheese mailing list Cheese at hbd.org http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20080116/136c6a3d/attachment-0002.html From nblattar at gmail.com Wed Jan 16 02:09:46 2008 From: nblattar at gmail.com (Nabil Attar) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 09:09:46 +0200 Subject: [Cheese] Cheese Digest, Vol 25, Issue 18 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Nice one Jack , i love your political sense of humor ... ;) On Jan 15, 2008 7:00 PM, wrote: > Send Cheese mailing list submissions to > cheese at hbd.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > cheese-request at hbd.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > cheese-owner at hbd.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Cheese digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Blue wheel problem (Jack Schmidling) > 2. Re: Blue wheel problem (jacque coleman) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 09:27:17 -0800 > From: Jack Schmidling > Subject: Re: [Cheese] Blue wheel problem > To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" > Message-ID: <478B9B75.9060003 at mc.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Nabil Attar wrote: > > Hey guys... this is my first post to this list, but i am a friend of > > /peter and Jack S (if they accept me as friend) > > We will have to check with Bush to see if we can be friends. He may > have added Syria to his axis of evil. > > I don't really have an answer to your question but I would not wrap a > blue in anything like foil. If it is a Stilton type, it should have > access to air and just be wiped and rubbed on a regular basis. > > It needs humidity to develop but I find the best way to control that is > in a plastic shoe box with a lid opened slightly. > > I am sure others can be more help but that is the way I see it. > > Just rub it down with you hands to smoothe it over and let it rest > uncovered for awhile. Put a couple of sticks under it so moisture does > not collect there. > > js > -- > PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm > Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 11:56:09 -0800 (PST) > From: jacque coleman > Subject: Re: [Cheese] Blue wheel problem > To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" > Message-ID: <976356.71884.qm at web30413.mail.mud.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > I want my email removed and can not seem to get it done. please help! No more to blklab70 at yahoo.com Don't need politics in this forum. > > Jack Schmidling wrote: Nabil Attar wrote: > > Hey guys... this is my first post to this list, but i am a friend of > > /peter and Jack S (if they accept me as friend) > > We will have to check with Bush to see if we can be friends. He may > have added Syria to his axis of evil. > > I don't really have an answer to your question but I would not wrap a > blue in anything like foil. If it is a Stilton type, it should have > access to air and just be wiped and rubbed on a regular basis. > > It needs humidity to develop but I find the best way to control that is > in a plastic shoe box with a lid opened slightly. > > I am sure others can be more help but that is the way I see it. > > Just rub it down with you hands to smoothe it over and let it rest > uncovered for awhile. Put a couple of sticks under it so moisture does > not collect there. > > js > -- > PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm > Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > > > > Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the number of moments that take our breath away. > > > --------------------------------- > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20080114/d5f87c14/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > > > End of Cheese Digest, Vol 25, Issue 18 > ************************************** > From arf at mc.net Wed Jan 16 08:38:39 2008 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 05:38:39 -0800 Subject: [Cheese] Cheese Digest, Vol 25, Issue 18 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <478E08DF.3030205@mc.net> Nabil Attar wrote: > Nice one Jack , i love your political sense of humor ... Not to be confused with the person who unsubscribed because of the same humor. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From pbabcock at hbd.org Wed Jan 16 12:13:13 2008 From: pbabcock at hbd.org (Pat Babcock) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 12:13:13 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Cheese] Please resubscribe Message-ID: <63041.136.1.1.101.1200503593.squirrel@hbd.org> Due to all of the morons on the list who somehow have either lost track of the address they subscribed through, or are senseless idiots who cannot fathom simple instructions, I am left with no choice but to eliminate every single email address from the list. If you wish to receive the Cheese Digest, please send the word "subscribe" to cheese-request at hbd.org or use the web interface at http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese - but please wait until at least 1:00 pm EST 1/16/2008 to do so. To all the morons replying to the list to unsubscribe: PLEASE do not come back. It is not my fault, nor Jack's fault that you are too stupid to be keep track of your own email addresses, your subscription; or that you are too ignorant to follow the instructions provided. But I will release you from your self-imposed prison by these actions - ecven as it inconveiences all of those who are clearly not as idiotic as you. The subscription list will be erased at 12:00 pm EST 1/16/2008. From nate at allee.us Wed Jan 16 14:10:16 2008 From: nate at allee.us (Nathan Allee) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 14:10:16 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] Please resubscribe In-Reply-To: <63041.136.1.1.101.1200503593.squirrel@hbd.org> References: <63041.136.1.1.101.1200503593.squirrel@hbd.org> Message-ID: <44b5f4210801161110q14fbf760y81ed85f0bc2afc06@mail.gmail.com> Brilliant! It's certainly worth it to me to not have to listen to those goofs. Well done Pat. +N On Jan 16, 2008 12:13 PM, Pat Babcock wrote: > Due to all of the morons on the list who somehow have either lost track of > the address they subscribed through, or are senseless idiots who cannot > fathom simple instructions, I am left with no choice but to eliminate > every single email address from the list. > > If you wish to receive the Cheese Digest, please send the word "subscribe" > to cheese-request at hbd.org or use the web interface at > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese - but please wait until at least > 1:00 pm EST 1/16/2008 to do so. > > To all the morons replying to the list to unsubscribe: PLEASE do not come > back. It is not my fault, nor Jack's fault that you are too stupid to be > keep track of your own email addresses, your subscription; or that you are > too ignorant to follow the instructions provided. But I will release you > from your self-imposed prison by these actions - ecven as it inconveiences > all of those who are clearly not as idiotic as you. > > The subscription list will be erased at 12:00 pm EST 1/16/2008. > > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20080116/18c7d8b7/attachment-0002.html From nblattar at gmail.com Thu Jan 17 05:08:03 2008 From: nblattar at gmail.com (Nabil Attar) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 12:08:03 +0200 Subject: [Cheese] I want to know how to do this cheese ! Message-ID: Hey there is a cheese i really want to know how they make it, the problem is that it is fresh cheese, and i don;t know the name of it, i will explain: 1- color : very very white 2- texture very very smooth (creamy) (no holes no curd like inner texture) 3- when u buy it, you buy in blocks (pound or less each) with brine around. 4- looks like Greek feta, but it is not feta, here they sell it as Bulgarian white cheese. 5- not very very salty, but it is salty. 6- u need to cut it by knife, or it will break by hand, and if you squeeze it, it will became puree 7- they use it in greek salad (again not feta, feta is harder and has curds alike inside) Any idea ?? i know tha it is feta cheese family but how ? how they achieve this very firm dense soft cheese? From derekbradford at gmail.com Thu Jan 17 08:48:19 2008 From: derekbradford at gmail.com (Derek Bradford) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 22:48:19 +0900 Subject: [Cheese] I want to know how to do this cheese ! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <799e8cd60801170548h31e1446bmced78c68e2576ac8@mail.gmail.com> That sounds a lot like Bulgarian Feta, but it's really hard to say. You seem certain it's not feta, but it's possible. If it is, I'd also like to know how to make it. --Derek On Jan 17, 2008 7:08 PM, Nabil Attar wrote: > Hey > > there is a cheese i really want to know how they make it, the problem > is that it is fresh cheese, and i don;t know the name of it, i will > explain: > > 1- color : very very white > 2- texture very very smooth (creamy) (no holes no curd like inner texture) > 3- when u buy it, you buy in blocks (pound or less each) with brine > around. > 4- looks like Greek feta, but it is not feta, here they sell it as > Bulgarian white cheese. > 5- not very very salty, but it is salty. > 6- u need to cut it by knife, or it will break by hand, and if you > squeeze it, it will became puree > 7- they use it in greek salad (again not feta, feta is harder and has > curds alike inside) > > Any idea ?? i know tha it is feta cheese family but how ? how they > achieve this very firm dense soft cheese? > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > -- Every path but your own is the path of fate. --Thoreau -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20080117/044d386b/attachment-0002.html From jack at schmidling.com Thu Jan 17 09:27:02 2008 From: jack at schmidling.com (Jack Schmidling) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 06:27:02 -0800 Subject: [Cheese] Subscriptions Message-ID: <478F65B6.5040200@schmidling.com> In spite of the list owner message about unsubscribing everyone to get rid of the people who can't handle the unsubscribe instructions, I am getting inundated by email asking why they have been removed. Just resubscribe and everything will be cool. Of course, if you can read this you already have. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From chapka at yahoo.com Thu Jan 17 12:07:54 2008 From: chapka at yahoo.com (Christopher Hapka) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 09:07:54 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Cheese] Subscriptions Message-ID: <776352.10542.qm@web55201.mail.re4.yahoo.com> >In spite of the list owner message about unsubscribing everyone to >get rid of the people who can't handle the unsubscribe >instructions, I am getting inundated by email asking why they have >been removed. That's because those of us who subscribe to the digest version didn't receive the message until 24 hours after we were unsubscribed--meaning they didn't receive it at all. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ From bk2 at sharpstick.org Thu Jan 17 12:20:56 2008 From: bk2 at sharpstick.org (bill keiser) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 12:20:56 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] I want to know how to do this cheese ! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <478F8E78.8030805@sharpstick.org> I found something in a local mideastern market that is much like you describe, even more than Bulgarian feta. It is Egyptian feta made from buffalo milk. It is even closer to cream cheese. Not very good for salads, but a good flavorful alternative to cream cheese. But I have no idea how it's made. I suspect a combination of feta and cream cheese recipes. Bill Keiser > >That sounds a lot like Bulgarian Feta, but it's really hard to say. You >seem certain it's not feta, but it's possible. If it is, I'd also like to >know how to make it. > >--Derek > > > >>Hey >> >>there is a cheese i really want to know how they make it, the problem >>is that it is fresh cheese, and i don;t know the name of it, i will >>explain: >> >>1- color : very very white >>2- texture very very smooth (creamy) (no holes no curd like inner texture) >>3- when u buy it, you buy in blocks (pound or less each) with brine >>around. >>4- looks like Greek feta, but it is not feta, here they sell it as >>Bulgarian white cheese. >>5- not very very salty, but it is salty. >>6- u need to cut it by knife, or it will break by hand, and if you >>squeeze it, it will became puree >>7- they use it in greek salad (again not feta, feta is harder and has >>curds alike inside) >> >>Any idea ?? i know tha it is feta cheese family but how ? how they >>achieve this very firm dense soft cheese? >> >> >> > > > > > From jack at teachers.org Thu Jan 17 12:23:54 2008 From: jack at teachers.org (Jack Daugherty) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 12:23:54 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] Subscriptions In-Reply-To: <776352.10542.qm@web55201.mail.re4.yahoo.com> References: <776352.10542.qm@web55201.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <478F8F2A.1050005@teachers.org> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20080117/673091e8/attachment-0002.html From bk2 at sharpstick.org Thu Jan 17 12:28:41 2008 From: bk2 at sharpstick.org (bill keiser) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 12:28:41 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] Please resubscribe In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <478F9049.9020100@sharpstick.org> I happen to be on digest and had no clue why I was being unsubbed. I guessed that it had to do with some kind of bounce, considering the notice came from cheese-bounces at hbd.org and that I haven't posted anything rude here lately.. I went ahead and resubbed immediately. Today I got the latest digest that explained what happened. I do May I suggest you give a day or two notice before doing this again in the future? Bill Keiser >Due to all of the morons on the list who somehow have either lost track of >the address they subscribed through, or are senseless idiots who cannot >fathom simple instructions, I am left with no choice but to eliminate >every single email address from the list. > >If you wish to receive the Cheese Digest, please send the word "subscribe" >to cheese-request at hbd.org or use the web interface at >http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese - but please wait until at least >1:00 pm EST 1/16/2008 to do so. > >To all the morons replying to the list to unsubscribe: PLEASE do not come >back. It is not my fault, nor Jack's fault that you are too stupid to be >keep track of your own email addresses, your subscription; or that you are >too ignorant to follow the instructions provided. But I will release you >from your self-imposed prison by these actions - ecven as it inconveiences >all of those who are clearly not as idiotic as you. > >The subscription list will be erased at 12:00 pm EST 1/16/2008 > >> >> >> From nblattar at gmail.com Thu Jan 17 15:30:45 2008 From: nblattar at gmail.com (Nabil Attar) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 22:30:45 +0200 Subject: [Cheese] I want to know how to do this cheese ! Message-ID: no Derek ; i am sure it is one of feta kinds it is Bulgarian Feta, and has no mechanical air inside, felt no rubbery, it is dense hard and soft same time, if u pressed it with ur finger it will break smoothly. > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 22:48:19 +0900 > From: "Derek Bradford" > Subject: Re: [Cheese] I want to know how to do this cheese ! > To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" > Message-ID: > <799e8cd60801170548h31e1446bmced78c68e2576ac8 at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > That sounds a lot like Bulgarian Feta, but it's really hard to say. You > seem certain it's not feta, but it's possible. If it is, I'd also like to > know how to make it. > > --Derek > > On Jan 17, 2008 7:08 PM, Nabil Attar wrote: > > > Hey > > > > there is a cheese i really want to know how they make it, the problem > > is that it is fresh cheese, and i don;t know the name of it, i will > > explain: > > > > 1- color : very very white > > 2- texture very very smooth (creamy) (no holes no curd like inner texture) > > 3- when u buy it, you buy in blocks (pound or less each) with brine > > around. > > 4- looks like Greek feta, but it is not feta, here they sell it as > > Bulgarian white cheese. > > 5- not very very salty, but it is salty. > > 6- u need to cut it by knife, or it will break by hand, and if you > > squeeze it, it will became puree > > 7- they use it in greek salad (again not feta, feta is harder and has > > curds alike inside) > > > > Any idea ?? i know tha it is feta cheese family but how ? how they > > achieve this very firm dense soft cheese? > > _______________________________________________ > > Cheese mailing list > > Cheese at hbd.org > > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > > > > > > -- > Every path but your own is the path of fate. --Thoreau > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20080117/044d386b/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 06:27:02 -0800 > From: Jack Schmidling > Subject: [Cheese] Subscriptions > To: "cheese at hbd.org" > Message-ID: <478F65B6.5040200 at schmidling.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > In spite of the list owner message about unsubscribing everyone to get > rid of the people who can't handle the unsubscribe instructions, I am > getting inundated by email asking why they have been removed. > > Just resubscribe and everything will be cool. Of course, if you can read > this you already have. > > js > > -- > PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm > Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > > > End of Cheese Digest, Vol 25, Issue 20 > ************************************** > From pbabcock at hbd.org Fri Jan 18 12:10:16 2008 From: pbabcock at hbd.org (Pat Babcock) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 12:10:16 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Cheese] Please resubscribe Message-ID: <31952.136.1.1.101.1200676216.squirrel@hbd.org> May I suggest you give a day or two notice before doing this again in the future? Point well taken. It wasn't until I had already whacked the list that I realized that the digested folks may not get the mail. My apologies - sometimes in our fury over the few, we forget the many... (And, it is my sincere hope I never have to do it again!) -p From uncleralphscloset at yahoo.com Fri Jan 18 13:30:40 2008 From: uncleralphscloset at yahoo.com (Ralph Private) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 10:30:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Cheese] You've been invited to Join Beautiful Asian Girls on Ringo! Message-ID: <1443335028.1200681040264.JavaMail.ringo@ringo16.tickle.com> Hi, Ralph has invited you to the Beautiful Asian Girls group on Ringo. Check out Beautiful Asian Girls group. http://www.ringo.com/group/asiangirls/i.html?invitorId=138008928&invitationId=2080534920&email=cheese%40hbd.org Thanks for using Ringo. Stay in touch! -- Copyright 2007 Tickle, inc. All rights reserved. 222 Sutter St, 5th Floor, San Francisco, CA 94108 * This email was sent by request to cheese at hbd.org. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20080118/0a9d8a1c/attachment-0002.html From jack at schmidling.com Fri Jan 18 23:31:44 2008 From: jack at schmidling.com (Jack Schmidling) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 20:31:44 -0800 Subject: [Cheese] You've been invited to Join Beautiful Asian Girls on Ringo! In-Reply-To: <1443335028.1200681040264.JavaMail.ringo@ringo16.tickle.com> References: <1443335028.1200681040264.JavaMail.ringo@ringo16.tickle.com> Message-ID: <47917D30.4050204@schmidling.com> Ralph Private wrote: > Hi, > > Ralph has invited you to the Beautiful Asian Girls group on Ringo. Not sure how this got through but he has been unsubscribed by the mod. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From nblattar at gmail.com Sat Jan 19 05:26:47 2008 From: nblattar at gmail.com (Nabil Attar) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 12:26:47 +0200 Subject: [Cheese] I want to know how to do this cheese ! Message-ID: thanks Bill no i am talking about cheese made in Bulgaria , and written on the box: "Bulagrian white cheese" , there is both cow or sheep boxes. > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 12:20:56 -0500 > From: bill keiser > Subject: Re: [Cheese] I want to know how to do this cheese ! > To: cheese at hbd.org > Message-ID: <478F8E78.8030805 at sharpstick.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > I found something in a local mideastern market that is much like you > describe, even more than Bulgarian feta. It is Egyptian feta made from > buffalo milk. It is even closer to cream cheese. Not very good for > salads, but a good flavorful alternative to cream cheese. > But I have no idea how it's made. I suspect a combination of feta and > cream cheese recipes. > Bill Keiser > > > > >That sounds a lot like Bulgarian Feta, but it's really hard to say. You > >seem certain it's not feta, but it's possible. If it is, I'd also like to > >know how to make it. > > From nblattar at gmail.com Sat Jan 19 05:31:03 2008 From: nblattar at gmail.com (Nabil Attar) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 12:31:03 +0200 Subject: [Cheese] moister mozzerrella Message-ID: any one can advise how can i make "not hard" mozzerella. i want to make more moisture softer mozz cheese, any advise? usualy when u cook the curds, u take a lot of whey out, and leave it to develop acidity it looses more whey, which makes cheese after working in hot water very firm balls. i want to make more water content cheese, like orginal italian fresh mozz balls From rglinden at comcast.net Sun Jan 20 01:27:38 2008 From: rglinden at comcast.net (Richard G. Linden) Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 01:27:38 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] (no subject) Message-ID: <008201c85b2d$8e3e1b70$640fa8c0@RICHARD> Richard G. Linden rglinden at comcast.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20080120/a40d5203/attachment-0002.html From nblattar at gmail.com Wed Jan 23 03:52:41 2008 From: nblattar at gmail.com (Nabil Attar) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 10:52:41 +0200 Subject: [Cheese] Meso , acid Problem !! Message-ID: i was making feta from fresh RAW cow milk , i added meso starter (as always) my meso is very active and fresh, i added rennet and it coagulated with clean break, but the acid did not developed (pH 6.5) then i found out that the pH of the cheese did not change even after over 30 hours in room temp, the minimum pH was 5.9 for both drained whey, and cheese , imagine !! this never happened to me before, the cheese still sweet, no acid, taking into concedration that i used RAW milk wich can develop lactic acid itself !!!! cheese was in room temp was around 16-20C, and not salted Any suggestions? of why? what shall i make with this cheese? do u think it ruined (no acid to protect it)? From arf at mc.net Wed Jan 23 23:14:52 2008 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 20:14:52 -0800 Subject: [Cheese] Meso , acid Problem !! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <479810BC.1070700@mc.net> Nabil Attar wrote: > i was making feta from fresh RAW cow milk , i added meso starter (as always) > my meso is very active and fresh, i added rennet and it coagulated > with clean break, but the acid did not developed (pH 6.5) Just a good example of "penny wise and pound foolish". Which means if you use homebrew starters, you take your chances. Your starter apparently did not know that it was "active and fresh" judging by the results. > this never happened to me before, There is always a first time and after a few more, you will conclude that it is best to use commercial starters. > taking into concedration that i used RAW milk wich can develop lactic > acid itself !!!! "Can" is the operative word here. It also might not and very likely will not. I only tried it once and never again. I tried fresh from the cow milk with no starter and got exactly what you got and never tried it again. > Any suggestions? of why? what shall i make with this cheese? do u > think it ruined (no acid to protect it)? What does it taste like? You obviously can not age it but it may be an ok baking cheese or fresh like cottage cheese with lots of salt. I think what you have is rennet custard which is more of a desert. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From kristiemcgarry at yahoo.com Thu Jan 24 01:16:33 2008 From: kristiemcgarry at yahoo.com (k m) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 22:16:33 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Cheese] Meso , acid Problem !! In-Reply-To: <479810BC.1070700@mc.net> Message-ID: <974377.39773.qm@web50204.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Your mik can and will develop lactic acid when held at a warm temperature for a long period of time under the right conditions---since of course this is the process that your starter culture is selecting for and speeding up. A good rule of thumb is to always testing pH before adding rennet so that you will have opportunity to make corrections before ending up with junket instead of cheese. Jack Schmidling wrote: Nabil Attar wrote: > i was making feta from fresh RAW cow milk , i added meso starter (as always) > my meso is very active and fresh, i added rennet and it coagulated > with clean break, but the acid did not developed (pH 6.5) Just a good example of "penny wise and pound foolish". Which means if you use homebrew starters, you take your chances. Your starter apparently did not know that it was "active and fresh" judging by the results. > this never happened to me before, There is always a first time and after a few more, you will conclude that it is best to use commercial starters. > taking into concedration that i used RAW milk wich can develop lactic > acid itself !!!! "Can" is the operative word here. It also might not and very likely will not. I only tried it once and never again. I tried fresh from the cow milk with no starter and got exactly what you got and never tried it again. > Any suggestions? of why? what shall i make with this cheese? do u > think it ruined (no acid to protect it)? What does it taste like? You obviously can not age it but it may be an ok baking cheese or fresh like cottage cheese with lots of salt. I think what you have is rennet custard which is more of a desert. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com _______________________________________________ Cheese mailing list Cheese at hbd.org http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20080123/97ab3b61/attachment-0002.html From arf at mc.net Thu Jan 24 08:01:12 2008 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 05:01:12 -0800 Subject: [Cheese] Meso , acid Problem !! In-Reply-To: <974377.39773.qm@web50204.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <974377.39773.qm@web50204.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <47988C18.5070703@mc.net> k m wrote: > Your mik can and will develop lactic acid when held at a warm > temperature for a long period of time under the right > conditions-- That is correct but "the devil is in the details". If that "long time" is many hours or days, you will get an entirely different product than with a starter that works faster. Not to mention the problems of spending days over a batch of cheese. There should be a measurable drop in pH before the rennet is added and this is usually less than an hour. In this case the curds will be ready for pressing (pH 5.6) at about 5 hours. I think it would be interesting to know how Nabil produces and re-cultures his starter. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From nate at allee.us Mon Jan 28 09:05:18 2008 From: nate at allee.us (Nathan Allee) Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 09:05:18 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] Longhorn Colby Message-ID: <44b5f4210801280605q393e3705md73491fb7d8e0561@mail.gmail.com> My favorite childhood cheese was Longhorn Colby. When I can find it at the store I buy it. To me it has a taste which is distinct from just Colby. How is it different (if at all) from just Colby? Am I just dreaming the difference in taste? I would like to try to make some but cannot find any info on the process. Thanks, +N -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20080128/6860901f/attachment-0002.html From kathy at badgerpressinc.com Mon Jan 28 15:44:07 2008 From: kathy at badgerpressinc.com (Kathy Dederich) Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 14:44:07 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] Longhorn Colby References: <44b5f4210801280605q393e3705md73491fb7d8e0561@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <00e201c861ee$87e658b0$8301a8c0@DellInspiron> Nathan, Where do you live? Try the Wisconsin Cheeseman. The sell a 3 LB block for @$30. on line. Kathy ----- Original Message ----- From: Nathan Allee To: The Cheese Makers' Digest Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 8:05 AM Subject: [Cheese] Longhorn Colby My favorite childhood cheese was Longhorn Colby. When I can find it at the store I buy it. To me it has a taste which is distinct from just Colby. How is it different (if at all) from just Colby? Am I just dreaming the difference in taste? I would like to try to make some but cannot find any info on the process. Thanks, +N ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Cheese mailing list Cheese at hbd.org http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20080128/df4db889/attachment-0002.html From nblattar at gmail.com Tue Jan 29 02:12:29 2008 From: nblattar at gmail.com (Nabil Attar) Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 09:12:29 +0200 Subject: [Cheese] Meso , acid Problem !! Message-ID: thanks for your emails... but i am since few month using commercial meso MM Culture (MM 100) Mesophilic www.dairyconnection.com, and it is very active i am doing every two days a kind of cheese i stoppped doing my own from-scratch-starter from raw milk. Jack, u have very good memory ;) On Jan 24, 2008 7:00 PM, wrote: > Send Cheese mailing list submissions to > cheese at hbd.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > cheese-request at hbd.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > cheese-owner at hbd.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Cheese digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Meso , acid Problem !! (Jack Schmidling) > 2. Re: Meso , acid Problem !! (k m) > 3. Re: Meso , acid Problem !! (Jack Schmidling) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 20:14:52 -0800 > From: Jack Schmidling > Subject: Re: [Cheese] Meso , acid Problem !! > To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" > Message-ID: <479810BC.1070700 at mc.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Nabil Attar wrote: > > i was making feta from fresh RAW cow milk , i added meso starter (as always) > > my meso is very active and fresh, i added rennet and it coagulated > > with clean break, but the acid did not developed (pH 6.5) > > Just a good example of "penny wise and pound foolish". Which means if > you use homebrew starters, you take your chances. Your starter > apparently did not know that it was "active and fresh" judging by the > results. > > > this never happened to me before, > > There is always a first time and after a few more, you will conclude > that it is best to use commercial starters. > > > taking into concedration that i used RAW milk wich can develop lactic > > acid itself !!!! > > "Can" is the operative word here. It also might not and very likely > will not. I only tried it once and never again. I tried fresh from the > cow milk with no starter and got exactly what you got and never tried it > again. > > > Any suggestions? of why? what shall i make with this cheese? do u > > think it ruined (no acid to protect it)? > > What does it taste like? You obviously can not age it but it may be an > ok baking cheese or fresh like cottage cheese with lots of salt. > > I think what you have is rennet custard which is more of a desert. > > js > > -- > PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm > Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 22:16:33 -0800 (PST) > From: k m > Subject: Re: [Cheese] Meso , acid Problem !! > To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" > Message-ID: <974377.39773.qm at web50204.mail.re2.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Your mik can and will develop lactic acid when held at a warm temperature for a long period of time under the right conditions---since of course this is the process that your starter culture is selecting for and speeding up. A good rule of thumb is to always testing pH before adding rennet so that you will have opportunity to make corrections before ending up with junket instead of cheese. > > Jack Schmidling wrote: > Nabil Attar wrote: > > i was making feta from fresh RAW cow milk , i added meso starter (as always) > > my meso is very active and fresh, i added rennet and it coagulated > > with clean break, but the acid did not developed (pH 6.5) > > Just a good example of "penny wise and pound foolish". Which means if > you use homebrew starters, you take your chances. Your starter > apparently did not know that it was "active and fresh" judging by the > results. > > > this never happened to me before, > > There is always a first time and after a few more, you will conclude > that it is best to use commercial starters. > > > taking into concedration that i used RAW milk wich can develop lactic > > acid itself !!!! > > "Can" is the operative word here. It also might not and very likely > will not. I only tried it once and never again. I tried fresh from the > cow milk with no starter and got exactly what you got and never tried it > again. > > > Any suggestions? of why? what shall i make with this cheese? do u > > think it ruined (no acid to protect it)? > > What does it taste like? You obviously can not age it but it may be an > ok baking cheese or fresh like cottage cheese with lots of salt. > > I think what you have is rennet custard which is more of a desert. > > js > From nblattar at gmail.com Sun Jan 27 02:54:31 2008 From: nblattar at gmail.com (Nabil Attar) Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 09:54:31 +0200 Subject: [Cheese] Meso , acid Problem !! Message-ID: but i am since few month using commercial meso MM Culture (MM 100) Mesophilic www.dairyconnection.com, and it is very active i am doing every two days a kind of cheese i stoppped doing my own from-scratch-starter from raw milk. Jack, u have very good memory On Jan 26, 2008 9:51 PM, Nabil Attar wrote: > thanks for your emails... > > but i am since few month using commercial meso > MM Culture > (MM 100) > Mesophilic > www.dairyconnection.com, and it is very active i am doing every two > days a kind of cheese > > i stoppped doing my own from-scratch-starter from raw milk. > > Jack, u have very good memory > > > > On Jan 24, 2008 7:00 PM, wrote: > > Send Cheese mailing list submissions to > > cheese at hbd.org > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > > cheese-request at hbd.org > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > > cheese-owner at hbd.org > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > > than "Re: Contents of Cheese digest..." > > > > > > Today's Topics: > > > > 1. Re: Meso , acid Problem !! (Jack Schmidling) > > 2. Re: Meso , acid Problem !! (k m) > > 3. Re: Meso , acid Problem !! (Jack Schmidling) > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Message: 1 > > Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 20:14:52 -0800 > > From: Jack Schmidling > > Subject: Re: [Cheese] Meso , acid Problem !! > > To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" > > Message-ID: <479810BC.1070700 at mc.net> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > > > Nabil Attar wrote: > > > i was making feta from fresh RAW cow milk , i added meso starter (as always) > > > my meso is very active and fresh, i added rennet and it coagulated > > > with clean break, but the acid did not developed (pH 6.5) > > > > Just a good example of "penny wise and pound foolish". Which means if > > you use homebrew starters, you take your chances. Your starter > > apparently did not know that it was "active and fresh" judging by the > > results. > > > > > this never happened to me before, > > > > There is always a first time and after a few more, you will conclude > > that it is best to use commercial starters. > > > > > taking into concedration that i used RAW milk wich can develop lactic > > > acid itself !!!! > > > > "Can" is the operative word here. It also might not and very likely > > will not. I only tried it once and never again. I tried fresh from the > > cow milk with no starter and got exactly what you got and never tried it > > again. > > > > > Any suggestions? of why? what shall i make with this cheese? do u > > > think it ruined (no acid to protect it)? > > > > What does it taste like? You obviously can not age it but it may be an > > ok baking cheese or fresh like cottage cheese with lots of salt. > > > > I think what you have is rennet custard which is more of a desert. > > > > js > > > > -- > > PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm > > Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 2 > > Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 22:16:33 -0800 (PST) > > From: k m > > Subject: Re: [Cheese] Meso , acid Problem !! > > To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" > > Message-ID: <974377.39773.qm at web50204.mail.re2.yahoo.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > > Your mik can and will develop lactic acid when held at a warm temperature for a long period of time under the right conditions---since of course this is the process that your starter culture is selecting for and speeding up. A good rule of thumb is to always testing pH before adding rennet so that you will have opportunity to make corrections before ending up with junket instead of cheese. > > > > Jack Schmidling wrote: > > Nabil Attar wrote: > > > i was making feta from fresh RAW cow milk , i added meso starter (as always) > > > my meso is very active and fresh, i added rennet and it coagulated > > > with clean break, but the acid did not developed (pH 6.5) > > > > Just a good example of "penny wise and pound foolish". Which means if > > you use homebrew starters, you take your chances. Your starter > > apparently did not know that it was "active and fresh" judging by the > > results. > > > > > this never happened to me before, > > > > There is always a first time and after a few more, you will conclude > > that it is best to use commercial starters. > > > > > taking into concedration that i used RAW milk wich can develop lactic > > > acid itself !!!! > > > > "Can" is the operative word here. It also might not and very likely > > will not. I only tried it once and never again. I tried fresh from the > > cow milk with no starter and got exactly what you got and never tried it > > again. > > > > > Any suggestions? of why? what shall i make with this cheese? do u > > > think it ruined (no acid to protect it)? > > > > What does it taste like? You obviously can not age it but it may be an > > ok baking cheese or fresh like cottage cheese with lots of salt. > > > > I think what you have is rennet custard which is more of a desert. > > > > js > > > > -- > > PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm > > Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com > > _______________________________________________ > > Cheese mailing list > > Cheese at hbd.org > > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20080123/97ab3b61/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 3 > > Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 05:01:12 -0800 > > From: Jack Schmidling > > Subject: Re: [Cheese] Meso , acid Problem !! > > To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" > > Message-ID: <47988C18.5070703 at mc.net> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > > > k m wrote: > > > Your mik can and will develop lactic acid when held at a warm > > > temperature for a long period of time under the right > > > conditions-- > > > > That is correct but "the devil is in the details". If that "long time" > > is many hours or days, you will get an entirely different product than > > with a starter that works faster. Not to mention the problems of > > spending days over a batch of cheese. > > > > There should be a measurable drop in pH before the rennet is added and > > this is usually less than an hour. In this case the curds will be ready > > for pressing (pH 5.6) at about 5 hours. > > > > I think it would be interesting to know how Nabil produces and > > re-cultures his starter. > > > > js > > > > -- > > PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm > > Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Cheese mailing list > > Cheese at hbd.org > > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > > > > > > End of Cheese Digest, Vol 25, Issue 25 > > ************************************** > > > From arf at mc.net Tue Jan 29 20:03:56 2008 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 19:03:56 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] Meso , acid Problem !! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <479FCCFC.8080901@mc.net> Nabil Attar wrote: > thanks for your emails... > > but i am since few month using commercial meso > MM Culture > (MM 100) > Mesophilic > www.dairyconnection.com, and it is very active i am doing every two > days a kind of cheese Well, this might be over my head but how do you know it is "very active"? I presume that you are taking a spoonful of the freeze dried starter and stirring it into the warm milk. Normally, one would see a pH change on the order of .01 units in an hour. That is a very small change and hard to even be sure of so I don't know what very active means. You have no idea of the activity until you use it. If the starter is good, you should get to about 5.6 in about 5 hours. If there is no change in pH, the starter is bad or something in the milk is inhibiting it. The only thing that comes to mind is chlorine either from sanitation/cleaning or in the water used in the milk. The latter would be a problem if you are re-constituting powdered milk with municipal drinking water that has been chlorinated. The chlorine can be deactivated by letting it sit in the kettle overnight or bringing to a boil. So, does any of this help? js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From ricodlf at yahoo.com Wed Jan 30 04:53:29 2008 From: ricodlf at yahoo.com (Enrico dela Fuente) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 01:53:29 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Cheese] Lactose free In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <868386.31678.qm@web30603.mail.mud.yahoo.com> You can use sea salt for your cheese. This salt, a healthy salt actually, helps in the digestion. Cheers too! --- Ian Richards wrote: > My wife is lactose intolerant. > I see that there are cheeses in my supermarket that > are "lactose free" > How can I make a cheese that is lactose free. > > Cheers > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs