FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  thanks for help (terms) (Victor Reijs)
  potassium sorbate (Victor Reijs)
  Re: More rookie questions... (korz)
  R. Glidden Mashing question (RMCGLEW)
  Pumpkin Ale (Brewing Chemist Brian Walter)
  Wyeast European, dry hop sanitation (Barry_Gillott)
  pellet/leaf hopping rates (Jim Grady)
  re: Beer Across America (Chris Hughes)
  long ferments when dry hopping (Richard Stern)
  RE: Decoction and Tannin Extraction (James Dipalma)
  Glycerol for freezing yeast? (Davin Lim)
  keg questions (John Williams)
  Re: Lauter Tuns (Richard Childers)
  Edme Malt extract D.M.S. ("Rick Ringel - HNS/DCN project")
  Minnesota Results; Happy 1000th HBD! (R.Deschner)
  Re: Does dry hopping slow the terminal fermentation? (jdp)
  Homebrew Filtering Questions (Kent Dalton)
  New home brew supply store in San Diego (stevef)
  H (Rob Bradley)
  happy (or is it hoppy) 1000!! (Sandy Cockerham)
  Happy 1000th Anniversary! (Rob Bradley)
  Wheat Beer History and Banananose (Jeff Frane)
  Newbie AME query (Randall Holt)
  Barley-Free Beer ? (Randall Holt)
  keg to bottles (Roy Rudebusch)
  Cats Meow 2 Update ready (Don't Call Me Dude!) <stevens at stsci.edu>
  Clubs in Florida (tom lorelle)
  Wyeast European Ale Yeast (pmiller)
  Yeast, etc. (Joseph Nathan Hall)


Send articles for __publication__ to homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
  (Articles are published in the order they are received.)
Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc.,
  to homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
Archives are available via anonymous ftp from sierra.stanford.edu.
    (Those without ftp access may retrieve files via mail from
    listserv at sierra.stanford.edu. Send HELP as the body of a
    message to that address to receive listserver instructions.)
**Please do not send me requests for back issues!**
*********(They will be silenty discarded!)*********
**For Cat's Meow information, send mail to lutzen at novell.physics.umr.edu**


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Oct 92 22:06:45 +0100
From: Victor Reijs <Victor.Reijs at SURFnet.nl>
Subject: thanks for help (terms)

Helllo all of you,

First I want to thank all the people who responded to my
questions about terminology. Thanks. I even got information
which I did not asked for! I though I knew what 'brown sugar'
was, but when reading your replies I understood that there was
a big difference between your and my culture. In the Nether-
lands 'brown sugar' is the not fully refined sugar. I have the
idea that we do not have something like your 'brown sugar'.

Together with the answers, I got of course also questions:
 -    If you would like to know something about Dutch beers and
     its associations, please let me know, I can introduce you
     to some of these organizations (although there is not
     much e-mail in this part of the worlds [most e-mail is
     within the educational and research institutes]).
 -    In the Netherlands there are some 15 breweries which
     produce commercial beers (Heinenken, Grolsch, Raaf,
     Brand, Amstel and losts of smaller companies). Beside
     these commercial breweries, there are lost of people who
     brew their beer themselves (these people also have there
     own amature beer judges). I have the idea that the level
     of beer brewing is quiet good, but perhaps you have to
     find out yourselve;-).
 -    Home beer/wine/liquor making is not illegal in the Ne-
     therlands (and in my opinion also not in Germany, Belgi-
     um, France, UK, Spain, Portugal, Austria, etc.). In the
     Netherlands one is allowed to distill even liquor up to
     an amout of Dfl 50,-- of alcohol (which is some 750 cl)
     per month (this is a new rule:-).

I hope that you can use the above info.

All the best,


Victor Reijs

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 26 Oct 92 22:11:01 +0100
From: Victor Reijs <Victor.Reijs at SURFnet.nl>
Subject: potassium sorbate

Hello John Wyllie and Rob Bradley,

In some juices, the producer has putten DMS or potassium
sorbate to stop fermentation of a juice. So if you use such a
juice for cider/wine, there is a big chance that it will not
ferment.

Most yeasts are quiet tolerant on DMS, but potassium sorbate
is a real killer. The maximum amount by law of it is 268
mg/litre in the Netherlands. 100 to 200 mgr/litre is enough to
stop a yeast from working. (If using potassium sorbate to get
a sweet wine/mead, one has to add some DMS to be certain that
no eagly smells will form [geranium smell called in the Ne-
therlands]).

All the best,


Victor

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 26 Oct 92 15:22 CST
From: iepubj!korz at ihlpa.att.com
Subject: Re: More rookie questions...

Chuck asks:
>        1.  I saw a 5 gal Igloo cooler in a store the other
>            day.  I am still experimenting with partial mashes
>            and thought, this is the one I've been looking for!
>            How do you go about replacing the push button valve
>            with one that allows a lot more control in sparging?

I've built several different kinds of lauter tuns, and am planning a
comparison of their efficiencies and use.  Unfortunately, I have yet
to build the "cooler-type" lauter tun, so I can only pass-on information
I've read.  A good source for food-grade valves of all kinds (and perhaps
food-grade adhesives also) are the places that sell campers and related
equipment.  Try there.  If you use a rectangular cooler, I've read that
you simply need to pick a copper tubing that snugly fits into the drain
hole and then use a valve that has the proper-sized compression fitting
on it to give you the control you seek.
>
>        2.  What is a good extract/grain ratio for partial mashes.
>            1 3# can to 3#s grain, etc. I guess I should say what
>            is standard.

Of course there are no standards, and it's not so much a ratio that you
want -- what I mean is, you want some goodness from the grain and then
you make up the difference with the malt extract syrup or dried malt
extract.  If indeed you used a 3.3 pound can of extract syrup and mashed
3 pounds of pale malted barley, you would get an original gravity of,
say, 1.035 to 1.045, depending on the extract you use and your extract
efficiency (see below).  Your example is good start.
>
>        3.  I've heard a lot of talk about efficiency, 90%, so many
>            points, etc.   What's it all about.

All in all, it's just a measure to see "how you're doing."  There are
theoretical maximums for each type of grain and how close you get to
the max is a measure of how efficient your procedure and system are.
For example, you mash 5 pounds of 2-row lager malt and after sparging
collect 5 gallons of 1.030 wort.  According to David Miller, the
theoretical maximum for 2-row lager malt is 35 points per pound per gallon.
30/35 = .857, which is basically 86%.  Therefore you have achieved 86% of
the theoretical maximum, which, judging from the figures posted by various
brewers in HBD and elsewhere, is not bad.  Why is it important?  Well, for
all the work you put into mashing and lautering, not to mention boiling,
cleaning, bottling, etc., you would like to get the most out of your grain.
Right?

If your efficiency is, say, 50%, then you know you need to reasses you
procedures and and system.  Note that "bad efficiency" doesn't automatically
mean any one thing.  You could be overshooting your saccharification
temperature and denaturing your enzymes, you could have very lousy
grain (old or poorly stored), you could have an inefficient lautering
system, you could have a bad hydrometer, or you could have any number of
other problems.  See what you get and if you're not happy with it, post
your procedures and setup and ask for advice.

>
>        4.  And finally, does yeast really play that big of a role
>            in taste?  Excuse my ignorance, but I've always used
>            the little dry yeast packet that comes with the cans
>            ( I did buy some liquid once) and my beers taste fine
>            to me.  Will they improve that much?

I personally feel that yeast is the most important factor in determining
the flavor of your beer.  Granted, changing from 12 IBU to 120 IBU will
change the flavor of your beer, as will adding a pound of black patent
malt (neither are recommended, by the way).  My point is that changing
from Wyeast #1028 to Wyeast #1056 or dry yeast to liquid yeast will make
more of a difference in the flavor of your beer than adding an additional
1/2 pound of Crystal Malt or changing from Fuggles to Goldings hops.
If you brew a very low-gravity beer, say an OG of 1.028, the effect will
be less than a high-gravity beer, say an OG of 1.070.  Also, if there
are lots of dark malts or roasted barley in the batch, these will cover-up
the flavors generated by the yeast too.  One dry yeast that I feel is
very good is the one that comes with Cooper's Kits.  Two that I would
not recommend are Red Star Ale (lots of banana esters) and Munton & Fison's
kit yeast (lots of phenolics -- "band-aid (tm)" smell).  The only way to
tell whether the difference will be significant *to you*, is to try it
and see.

Al.

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 26 Oct 92 16:39
From: RMCGLEW.BUSSYS at mhssmtp.mdso.vf.ge.com (RMCGLEW)
Subject: R. Glidden Mashing question

R. Glidden asks how to keep a constant temp.  I have placed my 20qt ss pot 
inside a 30 qt pot (alum will do) with the grist in the ss and the larger 
pot serving as a double boiler.  It will bring the grist temp up rather 
slowly (compared to putting the pot on the burner), but it will help 
maintain a constant temp and also won't burn the bottom of the grist.


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1992 20:29:47 -0700
From: walter at lamar.ColoState.EDU (Brewing Chemist Brian Walter)
Subject: Pumpkin Ale

Howdy Brewers!

	Made my second annual "It's the Great Pumpkin Charlie
Brown" Ale recently, and it has turned out wonderfully.  So good
in fact, that I thought I would share the recipe. :-)  Not 
trying to boast, just want to share with you other homebrewers.

Charlie Brown Pumpkin Ale

To make 5 Gallons:

7 lbs light dried malt extract
1 lb  40 L Crystal malt
2 lb  pale ale malt
1 whole pumpkin (10 - 15 lbs)
1 teaspoon ground cinnamon
1 teaspoon pumpkin pie spice
2 oz fuggles (90 min)
1 oz hallertauer (90 min)
1/2 oz fuggles (5 min)

To Prime
1/2 cup brown sugar
1 teaspoon ground cinnamon
1 teaspoon pumpkin pie spice

WYEAST # ???? in a starter (Ale yeast)

Procedures:
	Clean and quarter the pumpkin, bake for 30 minutes at
	350 F.  Puree the pulp in food processor or blender.  The
	grains and pumpkin were mashed for 90 minutes at 154 F.
	This thick mess was then strained into the brewpot (a long
	process!), and then a standard 90 minute boil took place.
	When done, cooled with a chiller, and WYEAST starter was
	pitched.  Sorry about the WYEAST number, I forgot to record
	it.  I know it was an ale yeast, and most probably a German
	ale yeast to be specific, but I am not certain.  Standard
	fermentation and bottling, except the spices were added at
	priming time wiht the priming sugar.  

It made a wonderful fall beer.  (Almost too good, as the wife and
her friends like it a little too much!! :-)  The spices were a little
strong for about two weeks, but then they mellowed nicely.  By far
one of the best brews I have made (but then I always say that :-).

Thanks for listening,

 - Brian

Brian J Walter            |Science, like nature, must also be tamed|  Relax,
Chemistry Graduate Student|with a view towards its preservation.   |Don't Worry
Colorado State University |Given the same state of integrity, it   |  Have A
walter at lamar.colostate.edu|will surely serve us well. -N. Peart    | Homebrew!

Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 27 Oct 92 07:42:52 est
From: Barry_Gillott at DGC.ceo.dg.com
Subject: Wyeast European, dry hop sanitation


Joe Rolfe asks about European Ale yeast.  I've got a 5 gallon batch 
using it that's glugging away right now.  The Wyeast profile sheet at 
the homebrew supply store agrees that this yeast produces a more 
malty flavor.
  My batch was (real) slow to start up, I suspect because the 
temperature fell below 60F the night of pitching.  I used a starter 
but probably pitched it before it was ready.  The next morning (12 
hrs after pitching), no foam, so I raised the room temperature up past
70F.  It eventually got going, but took more than 24 hours.  The room
temp is around 70F right now and the yeast seems quite happy, but I 
intend to lower the temp gradually over the next day or so to around 
65F to minimize the chances of ester production.  (I don't have any
prior experience with this yeast's temperature range.)
  I have a dry hopping question for y'all:  Do I need to be concerned
about sanitation of the hops?  Can I just open a package of plugs and
drop one in?  I assume that the alcohol present after initial 
fermentation will provide some degree of protection, but... enough?




Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 27 Oct 92 9:00:43 EST
From: Jim Grady <jimg at hpwalq.wal.hp.com>
Subject: pellet/leaf hopping rates

I have an answer and a question:

Laura Conrad asks in #999 about the different hopping efficiency of leaf
vs. pellet hops.  I have recently picked up Miller's "Brewing the World's
Great Beers" and have just made the Kolsch recipe on pg. 50.  In that recipe,
he calls for 5 AAUs of pellets or 6 AAUs of leaf hops.  Thus it seems that
if you have a recipe you like with leaf hops, cut the hopping level by 1/6
if you switch to pellets.

Incidentally, Dave recommends Wyeast #1007 (German Ale), Wyeast #1338 
(European Ale) or one of the defunct MeV strains.  The SG is supposed to be
1.046 and the FG should be 1.010.  I got the SG he suggested but my FG is
1.017.  (I used Wyeast #1338) I tried adding 1/2 c. corn sugar and some
yeast energizer and it got going again but stopped at 1.017 again.  Could
the difference in FGs be due to the different attenuation levels of the
recommended yeasts?
Wyeast #1007 = 73-77% -> FG = 1.011 - 1.012
Wyeast #1338 = 67-71% -> FG = 1.013 - 1.015

I figured the FG = 1 + (SG - 1)(1 - AA)

where SG = Starting Specific Gravity
      AA = Apparent Attenuation
      FG = Final Specific Gravity

Is this what the "apparent attenuation" figures in the Wyeast yeast profiles
mean?

BTW, the beer tastes fine, just a little sweet.  I will stop worrying about
stuck ferments, bottle it and enjoy it!

Thanks.
- --
Jim Grady                  |"Talent imitates, genius steals."
Internet: jimg at wal.hp.com  |
Phone: (617) 290-3409      |                    T. S. Eliot

Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 27 Oct 92 10:28:05 -0500
From: cj at kamtwo.lmo.dec.com (Chris Hughes)
Subject: re: Beer Across America

In HBD #999, bliss at csrd.uiuc.edu (Brian Bliss) writes:
>I suscribe to them, and personally, I wish they would create specialized
>mailinglists.  I would definitely rather be on a dark ale mailinglist - 
>I'm sick of receiving pilsners!
>...
>I subscribe to BAA so I can expand my beer horizons, and
>wish they'd open up a little, sending out some off-the-wall stuff, even
>if there's a person or two who may not like a particular selection.
>
>I should also get off my butt and on the phone and talk to a person
>in charge, instead of bitching about it on the hbd...

    I had the same reaction when I got this months beers (though I found
the Penn Pilsner pretty tasty), so I did give them a call.  I was
planning on cancelling, but the person I talked to said that they would
be sending out a lot more dark beers next year (porters & stouts, for
example) .  I got the impression that they were worried that their
clientele wouldn't be ready for anything but a small step up from
industrial beers.  I guess enough people have called to complain that
they've learned their lesson.  I decided to keep my "subscription" for a
while yet -- I'm looking forward to next year.

Chris Hughes					cj at kampro.enet.dec.com

Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 27 Oct 92 8:53:20 MST
From: Richard Stern <rstern at col.hp.com>
Subject: long ferments when dry hopping

> From: djt2 at po.CWRU.Edu (Dennis J. Templeton)
> Subject: Does dry hopping slow the terminal fermentation?
> 
> For the second batch, with 1056 I wised up and waited until fermentation was
> very slow.  Maybe I should have waited another couple of days, but I was
> leaving town and wanted to bottle when I got back.  The hops this time
> stayed in the carboy, but when I got back the ferment was still trickling
> along.  Now it's three weeks and there is still active CO2 production, and
> suspended yeast and sediment.  

Don't worry!   I brewed almost the same beer as you (all-grain, 90% pale,
1056 yeast) and it fermented slowly for weeks after dry hopping.  It
finally settled down and I was able to bottle it.  It came out fantastic!
So relax, bottle it when it's done and prepare yourself for some tasty
brew.

Richard Stern
rstern at col.hp.com

Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 27 Oct 92 11:30:16 EST
From: dipalma at banshee.sw.stratus.com (James Dipalma)
Subject: RE: Decoction and Tannin Extraction

Hi All,

In HBD#999, Darryl Richman writes:

< many good points regarding tannin extraction and decoction deleted >

>(BTW, my experience with the imported continental malts available now
>is that there is little additional extract to be gained from decoction.)

  My experience with the imported continental malts is exactly the
opposite, decoction mashing makes an enormous difference in extraction.
  I typically get 30 pts/lb/gal using highly-modified English pale malt
and infusion mashing.  I've tried infusion mashing using the continental
malts, my extraction is always a little lower, around 28 pts/lb/gal.
BTW, I do utilize a protien rest during such mashes, in order to break
down the protien matrix that exists in under-modified malt.
  Due to the low extraction, I started using decoction mashing for my
Euro-lagers about three batches ago.  In each case, my extraction was
over 35 pts/lb/gal, an increase of about 20% over infusion mashing, which
sent me scurrying back to the calculator to re-compute my hop additions:-)
  As to the malt itself, I get it from a local mail order place that
sells it under the designation "German 2-row pilsner malt".  There is a
number in the catalog beside each grain type that represents the degree of
modification, this malt has the lowest rating.  I cut open a few kernels
the first time I used it, and sure enough there was very little acrospire
growth, under-modified all right.
  My guess is that Darryl and I are using two different malts.  Some
months ago, I read in this forum that some malt producers, reacting to
the growing homebrew market, were beginning to highly modify *all* thier 
malt.  The reason given was that malt producers recognized the importance
of extraction to homebrewers, and changed thier product accordingly.
I think if the malt is highly modified to begin with, there will be
only a slight improvement in extraction if decoction mashing is used.
In such a case, the protien matrix that holds the starch is already
pretty much gone.
  Comments and opinions welcome, no flames though.

                                  Cheers,
									Jim


Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 27 Oct 92 9:37:44 MST
From: raid5!limd at csn.org (Davin Lim)
Subject: Glycerol for freezing yeast?

I've heard that a product called the Yeast Bank uses glycerol to
protect samples of yeast for storage in the freezer.  Can anyone
out there describe the steps and quantities needed to perform this
process?  I'd like to have a "homebrew" version of this product.

I'm interested in storing vials of yeast slurry from my
primary.  I've already gone the agar slants/petri dish route and
have had very good results - but it's just too much work to keep
multiple cultures going - especially when periodic re-culturing
steps are required just to keep the population alive. I'm confident
that my yeast slurry samples are likely not contaminated, so storing
them for future re-use is very attractive to me.

Davin Lim (limd at arraytech.com) 

- -- 
 ........................................................................
 * Davin Lim 			 * limd at arraytech.com
 * Array Technology Corporation	 * -- OR you can try ..
 * Boulder, Colorado.            *     raid5!limd at devnull.mpd.tandem.com
 ........................................................................

Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 27 Oct 92 11:42:18 EST
From: jwilliam at uhasun.hartford.edu (John Williams)
Subject: keg questions

Brewers:

	Here are a couple of questions about kegging with (I know it is
stupid) a plastic keg.  The first try produced plastic tasting beer; I
pitched it.  The second try produced a tasty amber ale but it did not hold
pressure and I ended up re-priming and bottling, not a big disaster.  Now I
have a third try where I plugged the vent valve and now I have great pressure
so much that I only get foam from the keg.  So here are the questions:

	1)  Does anyone know of a pressure gauge that would measure in
the right range (0 - 50 psi) and can you set it to release at a given 
pressure?

	2)  If such a gauge exists, then how does this sound for getting
the beer ready to drink?  First let the pressure get big and have the keg
swell for the the first three (or two?) weeks and then letting the pressure 
drop down to, down to what?  5 psi, 10 psi?

	The keg was a birthday gift from a supportive partner and I do
not want to undermine her support.

	Thanks for your help.

						John W

Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 27 Oct 92 08:42:44 PST
From: Richard Childers <rchilder at us.oracle.com>
Subject: Re: Lauter Tuns


> Date: Mon, 26 Oct 92 14:09 CST
> From: iepubj!korz at ihlpa.att.com
> Subject: Lauter tuns
> 
> I thought that I had covered this before, but since there still seems to
> be some confusion as to the theory behind the statements, I have, through
> the magic of ascii graphics, illustrated the theoretical basis for my
> contention that runoff from a single point is less efficient (in terms of
> extract) than runoff from multiple points.

	[ excellent ASCII graphics omitted for brevity ]

It seems to me that, while in the abstract, you are probably right about
certain designs resulting in less-than-perfectly-even flow of liquid, it
can be evened out by an occasional stir or shake of the pot or bag.

Fluid dynamics is a funny topic ... what with eddies and shifting grains,
I'm not sure the flow pattern is as deterministic - or the islands of
lesser flow, as static - as your diagrams suggest.

Ultimately, I would suggest that the metric for the efficiency of the sparge
is the ultimate arbiter of sparge efficiency ... and this is up to the home
brewer, whom either goes slack and lets his brew take care of itself, or is
intimately involved in assuring that the grain is exposed to heat & drained
evenly. I know of no design that can completely compensate for the presence
of a concerned and involved homebrewer.

It might even be that by using one outlet, slightly raised, one might be
able to avoid the inevitable sediment, while achieving a very efficient
extraction. This, ultimately, is an individual and aesthetic choice.

- -- richard

=====
- -- richard childers		rchilder at us.oracle.com		1 415 506 2411
         oracle data center  --  unix systems & network administration

                    Klein flask for rent. Inquire within.

Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 27 Oct 92 12:06:30 EST
From: "Rick Ringel - HNS/DCN project" <rringel at hns.com>
Subject: Edme Malt extract D.M.S.


- ------- Forwarded Message

Return-Path: CDEMKO at LANDO.HNS.COM
>From: THANK YOU FOR YOUR SUPPORT <CDEMKO at LANDO.HNS.COM>
Subject: Got another question...

This is from my brother Dave who is an 'advanced' brewer.  I told him 
these are the experts... So he would like to know:

	The directions to properly use Edme malt extract D.M.S.
	(This is extra diastatic emzymes, used to convert starches.
	It's a shortcut for the mulching process...)

Thanks for your help.
Christine.

- ------- End of Forwarded Message


Return to table of contents


Date: 27 October 1992 10:37:43 CST
From: R.Deschner%UIC.EDU at UICVM.UIC.EDU
Subject: Minnesota Results; Happy 1000th HBD!

A bunch of us from Chicago just got back from the Minnesota Homebrewer's
Festival and Competition, at Sherlock's Home Brewery in Minnetonka
(suburban Minneapolis), MN.

Best of Show, judged by John Isenour, Steve Hamburg, and Michael Jackson,
(Why is he famous? He has a REMARKABLE palate, in addition to his
encompassing knowledge of beer.) was won by a great Texas Brown Ale.
Jackson commented on how the use of lots of hops in Brown Ale was an
American peculiarity, pioneered by Texan homebrewers, but a tasty one.
(hence the name "Texas Brown Ale")

All of us reveled in the beers of Sherlock's Home Brewery, especially the
tremendous, hoppy, Bishop's Bitter, served from a hand-pull pump. The
porter, also from the hand pump, was delicious, with just the right
toasty dryness. The place is probably unique in the United States in
doing this so completely, although the Wynkoop and Walnut brewpubs in
Colorado also put some British ales on a hand pump.

Michael Jackson obligingly autographed copies of his books.

A complaint in general about homebrewers (and not just those in Minnesota
 - this is a general complaint): A great many of the entries were thin and
underhopped, as though American homebrewers were timidly following the
example of their large corporate brethren. During Best-Of-Show judging,
John Isenour summed it all up: "I should have had two rubber stamps made
up for the judging sheets - 'MORE HOPS' and 'MORE MALT'."

Also, use the right yeast. We who judged wheat beers were startled by the
number of brilliantly clear weiss beers which we judged, even though the
style is allowed to be hazy. The problem is that many of these crystal
clear weissens had no weiss character, such as the familiar clove
phenolic. Use of the right yeast might have produced some of these
characteristics, although clarity could be sacrificed. Yeast is one of
the least costly ingredients, so it pays to use the right one.

We did find a number of beers in the Minnesota competition which had
sufficient hops and malt, and which were true to their style; some of
these were not just good, but were great. By and large those were among
the winners in each category. So, why should you use MORE MALT, MORE
HOPS? Because you'll win.

Finally, I cannot resist the opportunity to wish
  *******************************************************************
  *             HAPPY 1000TH ISSUE HOMEBREW DIGEST                  *
  *******************************************************************
This has been a forum which is revolutionizing homebrewing. Barrels and
barrels of thanks to the organizers and moderators of HBD. The second
millennium begins!

- --- Roger Deschner

Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 27 Oct 92 12:25:39 -0500
From: polstra!jdp at uunet.UU.NET
Subject: Re: Does dry hopping slow the terminal fermentation?

In Homebrew Digest #999, djt2 at po.CWRU.Edu (Dennis J. Templeton) writes
about his experience with dry hopping:

> I've never had ferments take so long to complete; I frequently bottle
> at day 10 (without dry hopping).  It seems that either 1) The hops have
> slowed the pace of the ferment by half or more, so it drags on and on,
> or  2) The hops have somehow increased the amount of available
> fermentables in the batch, maybe by increasing the fermentability of
> the higher sugars.

Actually, it's 3) The tiny hop particles give the dissolved CO2
something to collect on, forming bubbles which then leave solution,
producing the illusion of ongoing fermentation.  You can confirm this by
taking some SG measurements over the course of a few days.

Bottle it.  If you dry hop and then wait for the bubbling to stop,
you'll be too old to drink by the time you decide it's done.

   John Polstra                              polstra!jdp at uunet.uu.net
   John D. Polstra & Co., Inc.                  ...!uunet!polstra!jdp
   Seattle, Washington USA   Phone (206) 932-6482, FAX (206) 935-1262
   "Self-knowledge is always bad news."                 -- John Barth

Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 27 Oct 92 10:25:16 MDT
From: Kent Dalton <kentd at bach.ftcollinsco.NCR.COM>
Subject: Homebrew Filtering Questions


I've been looking into the idea of getting a filtering system for my
homebrew but there is something I don't understand about them in
general: If you filter your homebrew, how do you get carbonation?
(I'm assuming it's done right after fermentation is complete. It
doesn't seem like you'd want to do it after conditioning it.)  Do
you basically have to keg it with CO2 or are there ways to force CO2
into the brew at bottling time? 

Believe it or not, I would actually prefer sticking with bottling
rather than kegging, because about 75% ends up getting lugged around
to friends' places!  Side Note: Some of my friends have developed a
voracious appetite for homebrew.  I'm seriously thinking about
making some of them start helping me pay for ingredients! It's nice
to have people like my beer but it's painful to watch half a batch
of "handcrafted" HB evaporate in one evening.

Also, as far as filtering goes, if anyone has any tips, suggestions,
or experience with any of the filtering systems, please share. I'm
currently thinking about getting the homebrewing filter kit from
"The Filter Store" (they advertise in zymurgy) has anybody used it?

My basic goal is a sediment free bottle of beer. I'd "settle" for a
sediment free keg (but it means I'll have to get a bigger car :-)

Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 27 Oct 92 8:14:32 PST
From: stevef at sequoia.SanDiego.NCR.COM
Subject: New home brew supply store in San Diego

For those who might be interested, there is a new homebrew supply
store in San Diego called The Home Brew Mart.  It's down by USD at
the corner of Linda Vista and Mollie. 

steve fanshier
stevef at sequoia.sandiegoca.ncr.com



Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 27 Oct 92 14:32:46 -0500
From: bradley at adx.adelphi.edu (Rob Bradley)
Subject: H

 

Return to table of contents


Date: 27 Oct 1992 13:38:26 -0500 (EST)
From: Sandy Cockerham <COCKERHAM_SANDRA_L at LILLY.COM>
Subject: happy (or is it hoppy) 1000!!

I am a recent HBD subscriber. I really enjoy having it in my mailbox when I
arrive each day. I find many of the subjects fascinating. I find the occasional
sniping amusing.
Can someone give this extract + adjuvant neophyte brewer some more detailed
information on exactly what to do with oatmeal? Is it possible to put it in
something other than a stout and not have a bizarre beer? 

	Thanks, 

	Sandy

From: COCKERHAM SANDRA L            (MCVAX0::RX31852)

To:   VMS MAIL ADDRESSEE            (IN::"homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com")

Return to table of contents

Date: Tue, 27 Oct 92 09:15:51 -0500
From: bradley at adx.adelphi.edu (Rob Bradley)
Subject: Happy 1000th Anniversary!

I'd just like to waste a little band-width to wish Rob Gardner and
all HBD subscribers well on the event of issue #1000.  I began
subscribing in May 1990 in the low 400s and submitted my first
recipe in #417, now `immortalized' in Cat's Meow.  I was off for
a few months in mid-1991, but otherwise have been a faithful
reader and (perhaps too) avid contributor.

Thanks to all of you who've given me valuable advice and food
for thought over the course of some 500 issues.

Special thanks to Rob for making it all possible.

Cheers,

Rob (bradley at adx.adelphi.edu)

P.S.  Watch for issue #1024 when the real computer geeks acknowledge
the first K digests ;-)

Return to table of contents

Date: Thu, 22 Oct 92 13:40:47 PDT
From: gummitch at techbook.com (Jeff Frane)
Subject: Wheat Beer History and Banananose

The fershinlungin site was down for a week and I missed Darryl Richman's
apparent statement that Anchor was the first "micro" to produce a wheat
beer in recent times.  Leaving aside the question of whether anyone
should even notice such a pitiful wheat beer exists, I'd say Darryl was
off by several years.  Someone else has noted the Dunkel Weizen out of
Wisconsin, but in addition Pyramid Wheaten Ale (they even did a bizarre
Dunkel Weizen made with roasted wheat malt) and Widmer Weizen both
appeared before Anchor's.  Darryl was living in California in those
days, I believe, and probably just missed it.  Come to that Bert Grant's
White Bear Wheat Beer was available on draught well before Anchor's.

To add a datapoint -- or maybe not -- to the question of the bananarama
nose from WYeast's Belgian ale strain, my own very-banana beer (which
was included, I believe, in the survey) *was* a high-gravity all-malt
beer.  I spoke to Tom Feller the other day, who told me he'd made two
low-gravity beers with it and had no banana nose.  I *think* they were
also all-malt.  So?

At any rate, now that nearly a year has gone by the bottled abbey-style
beer has almost entirely lost the banana nose; the complexities I'd
hoped for in malt and hops (and alcohol!) are moved to the front and I'm
quite pleased with it.  

Jeff Frane




Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 27 Oct 92 15:57:48 -0500
From: rxh6 at po.CWRU.Edu (Randall Holt)
Subject: Newbie AME query



Hi there. This is my first posting, and it's a pretty basic query.
 
What's the difference between Light, Amber and Dark Malt extracts?
 
I've looked through Papazian several times, and nowhere is this question
answered. He gets very specific about the origins and characteristics of
specialty grains, but ignores this (to me) very basic question.
 
The reason I'd like to know, I have a recipe that calls for 6# of AME, and I
happen to have 3# of LME and 3# of DME. Can I substitute ?
 
Many thanks.
 

- --
Randall W. Holt - rxh6 at cwru.po.edu     | 'Bibo ergo sum'
                                       |  - Jean Descartes 
                                       |    (Rene's little brother)

Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 27 Oct 92 16:00:22 -0500
From: rxh6 at po.CWRU.Edu (Randall Holt)
Subject: Barley-Free Beer ?



Does anyone have a recipe for a BARLEY-FREE beer (not mead or cider)?
 
I have a roommate who is violently allergic to barley (very sad), and thought
I would try to brew up something sans barley. I have looked at a few wheat
beers, but they all contain some percentage of the forbidden grain. I have not
yet found a recipe that is 100% wheat.
 
As yet, I have not plumbed the mysteries of mashing, but as no commerical
wheat-only extract kits seem available, this would be as good an excuse as
any to get started.
 
Can anyone help me to introduce my roommate to the joys of quaffing ale?
 

- --
Randall W. Holt - rxh6 at cwru.po.edu     | 'Bibo ergo sum'
                                       |  - Jean Descartes 
                                       |    (Rene's little brother)

Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 27 Oct 92 07:56:00 -0500
From: roy.rudebusch at travel.com (Roy Rudebusch)
Subject: keg to bottles

From: roy.rudebusch at travel.com

LW:>If you want to put some of your wonderful kegged brew into a bottle for
LW:>consumption elsewhere, what methods do you use?  I am just starting to
LW:>keg and would still like to be able to take some along occasionally.


Don't let anybody talk you into buying a counter-pressure filler!

The best way to put up a few bottles from a keg:

Sterilize bottles and caps
Chill bottles with caps on
Chill beer very cold
Attach a length of hose about 2 inches longer than the
bottle to the spigot.
Reduce CO2 pressure by turning out the screw on the regulater
Remove almost all the head pressure from the top of the beer
Slowly fill bottle, apply pressure if needed, little foaming should
occure.

I have filled 1 gal wine jugs with fully carbonated beer and it served
up well later at our local Brews club meeting. Be sure to keep it quite
cold.


 * OLX 2.2 * R. Perot is a ding-a-ling
                                                                             

Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 27 Oct 92 16:59:05 EST
From: (Don't Call Me Dude!) <stevens at stsci.edu>
Subject: Cats Meow 2 Update ready



Hello folks.

Those of you who used the PostScript files to print out your copies
of Cats Meow 2 can now get an update with 142 new recipes in it.

The file is in the archives as Cat2up1.ps.Z (unless Stephen gave
it a more intelligent name :-)

You'll also want a new index. This is in file CM2NDXu1.ps.Z

If you're not a PostScript user, it'll be a little while before
the ASCII text file is ready....patience...

The update contains just about every recipe posted to the HBD
through issue #999. The update contains ONLY new recipes. If
you're retrieving Cats Meow 2 for the first time, you will need
the original file to print out the bulk of the recipes in addition
to the new update file.

Thanks to Ed Meeks and Jim Basara for reviewing early drafts and
cleaning up a lot of mistakes that we'd overlooked.

As usual, if you run into problems using the update, let us know
and we'll help you out as much as we can.

Cheers!
- ---Mark Stevens   (stevens at stsci.edu)
   Karl Lutzen    (lutzen at physics.umr.edu)



Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 27 Oct 92 17:19:30 -0500
From: lorelle at meglos.mdcorp.ksc.nasa.gov (tom lorelle)
Subject: Clubs in Florida


I have recently moved from LA area to a brewing/beer wasteland - Florida.
Does anyone know of a club or any GOOD suppliers in the Melboure/KSC area?

Is there any reports on the Gold Coast Brewing Co in Huntington Beach, Ca -
Has it opened yet?

Thanks in advance,

Tom

Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 27 Oct 92 16:35:01 CST
From: pmiller at mmm.com
Subject: Wyeast European Ale Yeast


Joe asks about Wyeast European Ale yeast.

I just brewed a batch last Saturday of spiced ale.  I used a quart
of 1.020 sterile wort as the starter and pitched the puffed up
packet in the wort about 28 hours before brewing.  There was a thin
head of foam on the starter and about 1/8 layer of yeast on the
bottom of the jug.  My copper-coil-in-a-bucket-of-ice-water wort
chiller didn't cool my wort as well as it normally does and I'd say
the wort was about 80F when I pitched the starter into the carboy.
The weather here in Minnesota is warmer than usual for this time of
year and my basement has been 68F.  Within 24 hours, I had an
incredible amount of activity in the carboy with _lots_ of foam and
swirling little hop pellet bits mixing around.  Bubbles were coming
out of the blowoff hose faster than 1/second.  Three days later and
it's still fermenting actively.

So maybe this yeast is temperature dependant...


Phil Miller

Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 27 Oct 92 19:20:53 EDT
From: joseph at joebloe.maple-shade.nj.us (Joseph Nathan Hall)
Subject: Yeast, etc.

) From: Joe Rolfe <jdr at wang.com>
) Subject: Wyeast European Ale Yeast
) 
) any one used Wyeast European Ale Yeast??  any comments on it??
) 
) it has been said (by i assume Wyeast) that this is a slow fermenter.
) it also said the is left a brew with a malty flavor (unattenuative).

It ferments at more or less normal speed, but clears slowly.  It is
very clean in flavor, even at 70-72F, but round instead of crisp.
Mellow rather than acute.  I have found it to be relatively attenuative.
In a recent brew of O.G. 1.045, 1338 fermented down to 1.012, while
Sierra Nevada yeast pitched into the same wort fermented down to 1.014.
I don't know that I would characterize the two beers that I've made
with 1338 as "malty" or "buttery" or "caramelly" or anything in particular;
it's more like a kind of indistinct smear of all of the above.  1338
is not particularly fruity.  I'm not so sure I really like it, but it 
is a nice hi-temp yeast to add to the inventory.  I wonder if it might
make a nice yeast for brown ale or porter.  Hmm....

) Subject: potassium sorbate
) 
) According to the Merck index, sorbic acid, and it's potassium salt are both
) "mold and yeast inhibitors".  Better luck next time! SJB

Yes, but from what I know sorbate won't prevent active yeast in a
sugar-rich environment from fermenting, at least not in the concentrations
that are used to stabilize completed fermentations.

) >a blood-curdling cry echoes throughout the house.  The surface of the
) >beer is covered with a thin white scum.  It's kind of lacy looking with
) >little fuzzy nodules here and there with vein-like things extending
) >into the film.  It looks like the stuff the people had on them when they
) >crawled out of the pods in "Invasion Of The Body Snatchers."
) 
) A pediococcus infection has a ropy, lacy appearance.
) Too bad you hopped the heck out of the batch, or you
) might have a shot at converting it to a pseudo-lambic.

Quick, someone send him a Brett culture!

) Two subjects:
)  -    crystal malt and caramel malt
)      There is a big difference between these two!
)      crystal malt: the grain is soaked in water and kept at 65
)      Centrigrade (for one hour), so that the strach in the
)      grain is converted to sugar. After that the grain is
)      heated to 110 - 120 centigrade. The water evaporates and
)      the sugar gets a crystal like structure. (depending on
)      the length of the heating the crystal malts gets darker)
)      caramel malt: after the sprouting of the grains, they are
)      heated to 160 centigrade. The grain gets the color of
)      chocalate or caramel.

This conflicts with everything else I've ever heard.  Your definition of
"caramel" malt sounds suspiciously like Munich or Vienna or other
high-kilned malts.  I've never heard anyone suggest that caramel malt
contained a significant portion of unconverted starches.

So, where's George Fix?  Or maybe Darryl Richman would take a stab
at this one ... ?

uunet!joebloe!joseph   (609) 273-8200 day   joseph%joebloe at uunet.uu.net
2102 Ryan's Run East        Rt 38 & 41             Maple Shade NJ 08052
- -----My employer isn't paying for this, and my opinions are my own-----

Return to table of contents



End of HOMEBREW Digest #1000, 10/28/92