FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Yeast pitching question & thanks (thutt)
  Cat's Meow 2 Ascii Version (whg)
  Brew query: Detroit and Windsow, Ontario (holloway)
  Re: HBD #1012 - Corn Syrup, Corn Sugar etc. (Richard Akerboom)
  Re: Grainmill (Daniel Roman)
  Re: beer vs ale ("Spencer W. Thomas")
  Brewing On-line (Carlo Fusco)
  Inconsistent carbonation in bottles. (Dave Shaver)
  Holiday brews (J. Fingerle)
  An editorial (Alan Edwards)
  RE: How long does steam beer take? (Jon Camp)
  copper wort coolers and oxidation (Alan McRae)
  Nothing's brewing in West VA.! (Guy D. McConnell)
  Re : Cidre Bouche (Conn Copas)
  Aging revisited (korz)
  Smadams Cranberry Lambic, Xmas brew pix (Jacob Galley)
  Use of chocolate malt (Karl F. Bloss)
  Ride to PA beerfest needed (Stephen Brent Peters)
  Lower Hunter Airstat (John Freeborg)
  Hopback Wort Aeration (John Freeborg)
  Whitbread Ale and Lager Yeast (Mike Mahler)
  Beer aging (Ed Hitchcock)
  Jackson's Belgian Beer book (Ray Peck)
  NE Fall Regional 1992 (Mark Gryska)
  change address to woessner at psych.purdue.edu (Estes)
  metallic flavors (Brian Bliss)
  RE: Real ale from a carboy (Pat Lasswell)


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**Please do not send me requests for back issues!**
*********(They will be silenty discarded!)*********
**For Cat's Meow information, send mail to lutzen at novell.physics.umr.edu**


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 07:25:32 EST
From: thutt <thutt at mail.casi.nasa.gov>
Subject: Yeast pitching question & thanks

    First, I would like to thank all the people that gave me suggestions on
    getting started.  I appreciate your help thus far.  (Someone at a
    homebrew store said that beer people are extremely helpful, but that
    wine people are really stingy with helpful information..., any similar
    experiences?)

    Now, my question / story for the day:

    I am an extreme novice.  I am following the directions that I have been
    given, and what is written in Papazian's book.  However, my
    fermentation times are only about 1/2 of what they say I should be
    getting.  On the batch that I am fermenting now, I started it late
    Sunday, and it has almost completely subsided bubbling by this morning.
    Also, contrary to opinion, my massive activity does not start in 24/48
    hours, but in a matter of 2 or 3 hours.



    What am I doing wrong?  The instructions that I have been following say
    to hydrate the yeast, and then pitch into the carboy.  I have also seen
    that I should wait until the solution in the carboy has cooled.
    Which is correct?  (I would suspect since the way I did it (hydrate &
    pitch) is not working, the other way must be better).  If I should
    wait, what temperature should I wait for?

    Could someone please describe the event steps (and length of
    time) between the time you turn off your burner and put the blowoff
    tube onto the carboy?

    Finally, I local distributor gave me a taste of his India Pale Ale, and
    I _really_ would like to make this.  Any suggestions on a recipe (other
    than Papazian's)

    Thanks again.

    Taylor Hutt
    thutt at mail.casi.nasa.gov
    Championing worldwide usage of Oberon-2.


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Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 11:21:17 CST
From: whg at tellabs.com
Subject: Cat's Meow 2 Ascii Version



I recently got the ascii version of the cat's meow off the list server. However, I 
only get part of the index from the server.  Could some kind soul with a full index
to the ASCII cat's meow please send it to me?   

Thanks in advance,
Walt

Walter Gude    ||   whg at tellabs.com

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Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 08:41:28 -0500
From: holloway at ucs.indiana.edu
Subject: Brew query: Detroit and Windsow, Ontario

Greetings. A friend with a taste for beer (but, alas, no network
connection) asks that I poll you for recommendations on where to find
interesting brew/brewpubs in Detroit and Windsor, Ontario. Thanks in
advance.

I was delighted with your unanimous recommmendation of the Cleveland
brewpub, Great Lakes Brewing Company. Of the close to half-dozen brews on
tap, their IPA-style topped my list -- rich, *very* hoppy, full of body. It
wasn't available in the bottle, but they filled a gallon jug from the tap;
our brewclub back in Bloomington, IN, enjoyed it almost a week later. It
held up superbly. GLBC's a very hospitable place. Don't miss it if you
visit the Cloven Land!  --Jan  (holloway at ucs.indiana.edu)


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Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 09:24:05 EST
From: boomer at sylsoft.com (Richard Akerboom)
Subject: Re: HBD #1012 - Corn Syrup, Corn Sugar etc.

In Regards to your letter <9211130800.AA16010 at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com>:
> Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 9:53:50 CST
> From: tony at spss.com (Tony Babinec)
> Subject: corn starch/corn sugar/corn syrup
> 
[ good info on us "corn" = rest of world "maize", and corn starch
deleted]
> 
> Corn sugar is "dextrose" or "glucose."  It is commonly used for
> priming at bottling time.  It can be added to the boil to increase
> the gravity, and it ferments completely.
> 
> Corn syrup is also refined from corn.  It comes in syrup form, and
> its contents may vary.  For example, there is "high fructose corn
> syrup."  In food processing, corn syrup is used as a sweetener in
> lew of cane sugar or beet sugar. 

Since I once worked at a corn wet-milling plant in Germany, I believe
I can shed some light on this process. In the old days corn processors
found they could take the starch they separated from the rest of the
corn kernel, and break it down into sugar solutions (by an
acid hydrolysis?). With typical marketing hyperbole, they called this
"glucose" syrup, even though a lot of it was not glucose (ie a six
carbon sugar monomer) but rather maltose (a dimer) and other stuff.
I'm not sure if they ever solidified this stuff.

Then as technology progressed they became able to use enzymes to break
down the starch virtually 100% of the way to a simple (monomer) sugar.
This became "dextrose" even though chemically dextrose and glucose
are the same. Thus dextrose syrup and crystalline dextrose.

By the way, my dictionary defines "corn sugar" as dextrose and "corn
syrup" as the mixture of dextrose, maltose and other sugars mentioned
above. 

Rich

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard Akerboom       Domain: boomer at sylsoft.com or akerboom at dartmouth.edu
Sylvan Software          uucp: dartvax!sylsoft!boomer
Mechanic St.            Phone: 802-649-2231
P. O. Box 566             FAX: 802-649-2238
Norwich, VT 05055 USA 

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Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 9:12:18 EST
From: roman at tix.timeplex.com (Daniel Roman)
Subject: Re: Grainmill

Connell writes:
> Does anyone have any experience using a KitchenAid mixer with a grain mill
> attachment to crush malt?  I'm not sure it would be appropriate since

Forget about it, it's not suitable for the coarse grinding (cracking
really) needed for beer making.  I've considered heavily modifying one
but it does not look to be worth the expense or effort if it can even be
done.  For what it costs you are better off getting the Marcato or
something (unless you got one as a gift already and don't mind hacking
it up).
- -- 
____________________________________________________________________
Dan Roman           |     ///      Internet:  roman at tix.timeplex.com
Ascom Timeplex Inc. | \\\///                        GEnie:  D.ROMAN1
Woodcliff Lake, NJ  |  \XX/ Only AMIGA!     Homebrew is better brew.
====================================================================

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Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 09:22:58 EST
From: "Spencer W. Thomas" <Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: beer vs ale

There are differences of opinion here.  The "modern" view seems to be
that all fermented (hopped?) malt beverages are "beer", while "ales"
are fermented with top-fermenting "ale" yeasts.  However, I have seen
some writers use the term "beer" to mean exclusively "lager beer"
(thus "it is a beer and not an ale").

Lt. Col. Robert Gayre, who wrote the book "Wassail! In Mazers of
Mead," makes the distinction thusly: beer is a strong (in alcohol),
hopped fermented beverage, while ale is weaker and *not hopped*.  In
his opinion, both terms originally applied to a honey-based beverage,
but came to refer to malt-based beverages as mead-brewing declined
from the Middle Ages (and before) to the present.  His view would seem
to be in a distinct minority, at least in this country.  Any British
readers care to comment?

=Spencer W. Thomas 		|  Info Tech and Networking, B1911 CFOB, 0704
   "Genome Informatician"	|  Univ of Michigan, Ann Arbor, MI 48109
Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu	|  313-747-2778, FAX 313-764-4133

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Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 10:13 EST
From: Carlo Fusco <G1400023 at NICKEL.LAURENTIAN.CA>
Subject: Brewing On-line

I would like to thank the following people for making this list possible:

"76702.764 at CompuServe.COM"  "Robin Garr" 
"Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu"  "Spencer W. Thomas" 
"JCHISM%HSSCAM.decnet at NETVAX.MIS.SEMI.HARRIS.COM"
"sherwood at mv.us.adobe.com" 
"shirley at gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov"
"Victor.Reijs at SURFnet.nl"  "Victor Reijs"
"HULTINP at QUCDN.QueensU.CA"  "Phil Hultin" 
"LIGAS at SSCvax.CIS.McMaster.CA"  "MIKE LIGAS" 

****************************************************************************

			Brewing On-Line

****************************************************************************

>From the Internet you can subscribe to the following daily publications:

Mead Lover's Digest: mead-lovers-request@ nsa.hp.com (John Dilley, coordinator)
 
Hard Cider Digest: cider-request@ expo.lcs.mit.edu (Jay Hersh, coordinator)
 
Lambic Digest: lambic-request@ longs.lance.colostate.edu (Mike Sharp,
coordinator)
 
JudgeNet Digest: judge-request@ synchro.com (Chuck Cox, coordinator)

The Houston Brewing Group: hbg-request@ jpunix.com (For SW Texas, small list)
 
Usenet: rec.crafts.brewing

*******************

CompuServe:

There's a very active beer and homebrew forum on the CompuServe
Information Service, sharing online quarters with the wine forum. Unlike
Internet, this is not a "free" service; CompuServe charges from $6 an hour
(300 bps) to $21/hr (9600 bps) for online time, but the wide participation and
quick interactivity make it another outstanding online option for brewers. 

********************

BBS's:

There is a new BBS dedicated to brewing information. It post daily issues of 
Homebrew Digest and is in the process of archiving all information 
on brewing available. 

Jami Chism
System Operator
The Party Line BBS
717-868-5435
4 lines, all 14,400bps v.32bis

**********************

For European homebrewers:

Bitnet/EARN
	BEER-L at ???.bitnet (perhaps the same as homebrew???)
Fidonet
	BBS 2:500/275.1, BIERDAT, all day open, +3145727128
	BBS ???, NOBODY, all day open, +3123366978
	echo-mail: BIER.028
Videotex
	European Brewery Company (EBC), account needed (more info
	can be gotten by speach from Heineken, +3171456456)

wine:
Videotex
	Dutch-videotex, tel. 06-7400, area VINOTEX

pipes/cigars:
	pipes at paul.rutgers.edu

*************

For Canadian Homebrewers:

The Canadian Amateur Brewers Association (CABA) is a non-profit organization
whose purpose is to promote homebrewing as an enjoyable hobby through
educational publications, events, and other activties.

				CABA
				19 Cheshire Dr.
				Islington, Ontario
				M9B 2N7

I can forward information if anyone needs it. This is not on-line, I just 
thought other Canadian homebrewers might be interested.
********************

I will try to keep this list up to date. If anyone has any additions or
corrections please send me a message.

Carlo Fusco
g1400023 at nickel.laurentian.ca

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Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 10:58:13 CST
From: shaver at zeppelin.convex.com (Dave Shaver)
Subject: Inconsistent carbonation in bottles.

A little over a month ago I bottled a dark ale.  I used a scant 3/4 c.
of corn sugar to prime after dissolving the sugar in 2 c. boiling
water.  I'm pretty sure that I mixed in the priming sugar well enough.
I capped with a Brev wing capper after boiling the caps for about 10
minutes.  Since bottling the bottles have been stored at about 65-70 deg F.

The problem is that about half of the bottles have good carbonation and
great head retention while the other half are more-or-less flat.  (The
"flat" half do have a little carbonation, but they form only a very
weak head when decanted.  The head quickly disappears and the beer
tastes flat when drinking it.)

I'm wondering if:
	- I need to relax and hope the batch carbonates more evenly.
	- I capped some of the bottles wrong.
	- I didn't mix in the priming sugar well enough.
	- I did something else wrong.

Any suggestions?

/\  Dave Shaver
\\  CONVEX Computer Corporation, Richardson, TX
\/  Internet: shaver at convex.com    UUCP:  uunet!convex!shaver

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Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 12:00:24 EST
From: fingerle at NADC.NADC.NAVY.MIL (J. Fingerle)
Subject: Holiday brews


With the holidays fast approaching, actually they started
in mid September if department stores are used as a guide,
I was wondering if anyone can recommend any commercial
holiday brews that I should sample.  

In the past, I remember the Yuengling's and Sam Adams
samplers, but I'd assume there must be more.

Any suggestions?
- --
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
name:  Jimmy                               Nothing kills a good arguement
email: fingerle at NADC.NADC.NAVY.MIL       like someone looking up the facts.
 -or-   fingerle at NADC.NAVY.MIL                       -Bill Lyon 
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/


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Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 09:39:58 PST
From: rush at xanadu.llnl.gov (Alan Edwards)
Subject: An editorial

EDITORIAL

Geez, I'm getting tired of hearing everyone hail "candi sugar" as some
Belgian miracle.  If it is indeed just rock candy, then it is simply
sucrose--TABLE SUGAR.  Everyone's got that in the house!  Just use sugar--
it's cheap.  It doesn't matter if it is in rock form, granulated form or
even powdered.  Sucrose is sucrose.  Just because someone once used a
foreign spelling, and everyone else propagated it, doesn't mean it's
anything special.

Look, if I were a candy maker (in any country) would I use some strange
and harder to get (read:  expensive) type of sugar?  No, I would use
sucrose.  It's cheaper and more readily available.  What other kinds of
sugar are there?  Fructose, lactose, maltose, glucose--when's the last
time you saw candy made from them?  When's the last time you saw them in
a grocery store?

There is a very bad tendency in this forum to take what one contributor
says, and increase it's credibility as people respond.  By the time you
see several articles on the subject, the word of the first contributor
is considered FACT--written in stone.  Hail, hail, I must go to Belgium
and get some of that miracle stuff, or else my pseudo-lambic's will be
terrible.  Look, there are a lot of WAY more important factors in creating
something as complex as a Lambic.

People, use a little judgement.

 -Alan
 .------------------------------------. "To seek the sacred river Alph
 | Alan Edwards: rush at xanadu.llnl.gov |  To walk the caves of ice
 |     or: alan-edwards at llnl.gov      |  To break my fast on honeydew
 `------------------------------------'  And drink the milk of Paradise...."

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Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 11:48:55 CST
From: jjc at mayo.EDU (Jon Camp)
Subject: RE: How long does steam beer take?

In response to Rob Bradley :

>I'm planning to brew a steam beer soon, using Wyeast California,
>brewing in the low 60s and having an SG in the high 1040s.
>I'd appreciate any estimates on how long I can expect it to
>take to ferment to completion.

I've just bottled the second of two batches using that yeast and about your SG
and temp.  The first batch surprised me in that it wasn't quite finished after
three weeks, and I had to wait another before I had time to bottle.  I dry
hopped (1 oz Mt. Hood) that batch after one week in the fermenter (single 
ferment), and the CO2 from the continuing fermentation must have scrubbed most
of the aromatics because it has very little hop fragrance.  I tasted that
batch against Anchor and I was fairly pleased - I went overboard with the 
bittering hops, and the Anchor has a more complex flavor, but they were clearly
the same style of beer.

The second batch fermented for two weeks in the primary at slightly warmer 
temps (upstairs instead of cellar) then I racked to a secondary.  It finished 
in another week, and I then dry hopped and let it sit a fourth week.  At
bottling (last night) it had much more hop aroma than the first and it tasted 
GOOD.

I think this yeast can take higher temps, and it might even be more true to 
style if it is fermented warmer.

 -JJC (jjc at mayo.edu)


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Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 13:26:16 EST
From: alan at math.sunysb.edu (Alan McRae)
Subject: copper wort coolers and oxidation


While reading the latest special issue of Zymurgy I noticed an add 
for a stainless steel wort chiller.  As the price was rather high
I called the seller to ask why he thought a wort chiller should be
made of ss.  His explanation was this: After the boil, wort is oxidized
by contact with copper.  On the other hand I know that Pilsner Urquell, a
beer of unquestioned quality, stores the beer after cooling (I don't know
what material their coolers are made out of) in shallow copper containers 
so that the cold break may settle.  So the question is whether or not
the copper wort chillers that many of us are using are in fact compromising
the quality of our brews.

                                 Alan McRae
                                 alan at math.sunysb.edu
 




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Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 12:42:36 CST
From: guy at mspe5.b11.ingr.com (Guy D. McConnell)
Subject: Nothing's brewing in West VA.!

    At Stephen Hansen's suggestion, I ftp'd the "publist" file from the archives
and went through it with great anticipation.  Alas, not a *single* entry for
West Virginia.  No pubs, no micros, no megas, no stores, no nothin'.  Hell, do
they even *have* beer in W. VA.?!  Lots of entries for Virginia though.  The
publist file is a great resource as it has listings from all over the world.
Just not in West Virginia.  Hell, even Alabama had an entry for a brewery and
a bar (both of which I am quite familiar with).

- -- 
Guy McConnell  guy at mspe5.b11.ingr.com  or  ...uunet!ingr!b11!mspe5!guy
		  "All I need is a pint a day"

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Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 18:43:41 GMT
From: Conn Copas <C.V.Copas at lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Re : Cidre Bouche

Joel writes :

> My experiments have so far resulted in brews very similar to the scruffy
> "scruffy".

English traditional cider is often called 'scrumpy' (in the sense of 'rough').
This is because it is fermented with a mixture of wild yeasts and bacteria,
the apples are particularly high in tannin, the fruit pulp is occasionally
fermented (which increases tannin), and it is served cloudy, warm and flat.
Apple juice naturally makes a drink of around 7% alcohol by volume, yet some of
the French cidre I have tried has been much weaker. This suggests to me that
the drink has been diluted (and maybe fermented with a refined wine yeast,
using eating apples), which would tend to reduce the rough character.

- -- 
Loughborough University of Technology          tel : +44 509 263171  ext 4164
Computer-Human Interaction Research Centre     fax : +44 509 610815      
Leicestershire  LE11 3TU              e-mail - (Janet):C.V.Copas at uk.ac.lut   
G Britain                                      (Internet):C.V.Copas at lut.ac.uk


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Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 12:45 CST
From: korz at iepubj.att.com
Subject: Aging revisited

Oops!  I forgot one important point on aging beer: acetaldehyde.

Very young beer usually has acetaldehyde levels that are well above
it's 10 ppm flavor threshold.  Acetaldehyde has a "green apple" flavor
and aroma and is in the normal anarobic fermentation cycle:

glucose -> pyruvic acid -> acetaldehyde -> ethanol

Quoting from another of George Fix's articles in the Zymurgy Special
Issue on Troubleshooting:

"Thus in a normal fermentation, the acetaldehyde level will rise, typically
well above its flavor threshold of 10ppm, and then decrease as it is
converted to ethanol."

Then later goes on to say:

"For example, Budweiser is kraeusened after the primary fermentation
and is given only a brief cold storage [then, of course it's filtered and
pasteurized (killed), packaged and shipped].  Thus more acetaldehyde tends
to 'spill over' int the final product than normal.  Extensively aged
beers, for example Salvator and EKU-28, typically have acetaldehyde
levels that rarely exceed 2 ppm."

Typos and the text in brackets are mine.

Al.

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Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 13:03:35 CST
From: Jacob Galley <gal2 at midway.uchicago.edu>
Subject: Smadams Cranberry Lambic, Xmas brew pix

To whomever warned us about Sam Adams Cranberry Lambic:

Did you check if it was an old batch? There's a sale going on at a
local liquor store, a case of Smadams assorted brews for $14.99. It
was too good to be true. Everything they had was at least four months
past the expiration date. (Leave it to the FDA to let sleazy packies
sell spoiled beer while they crack down on "health" food stores and
neglect to inform the public about the consequences of irradiated
foods. FDA: Either keep your laws off my life, or at least pretend you
care about the people you're supposed to be protecting!)

'Scuse me.

My roommate and I ended up buying a six of Cranberry Lambic for $4. By
the way, it was packaged just like the assortment packs they sold last
Xmas. One Cranberry per six. Hint, hint. The stuff was more sour than
bitter or malty, and tasted nothing like cranberries. It was bad, old
beer. I don't think Smadams has even released this year's Xmas brew
yet. At least not in Chicago.

On a related note, does anyone have any favorite Xmas brews? I have
tried Sam Smith, Aass and Sierra Nevada so far. Sam Smith's was by far
the best of these three. Can anyone suggest how to get that kind of
Xmassy hop character in a homebrew without spices, following
Reinheitsgebot?

Ho ho ho,
Jake.

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Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 14:23:14 -0500
From: blosskf at ttown.apci.com (Karl F. Bloss)
Subject: Use of chocolate malt

I picked up a pound of chocolate malt at my local homebrew store after hearing
much about it giving beer a nutty flavor (which I like).  I'd like to add it
to my next batch of amber (extract), but have heard of using it crushed and
uncrushed.  What kind of difference in flavor does crushing it make?

Thanks in advance...Karl
(blosskf at ttown.apci.com)

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Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 14:25:26 -0500 (EST)
From: Stephen Brent Peters <sp2q+ at andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Ride to PA beerfest needed

Hey-ho,

I'm about to call to see if I can still get a ticket to the beerfest in the
Poconos this weekend.  I need to be in the Pocono area for other reasons so
I need a ride one way or the other, so if you're leaving from Pittsburgh,
\give me a call at 412-521-5580 and I'll split the costs of the ride.

 -Steve Peters
sp2q at andrew.cmu.edu

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Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 22:26:00 CST
From: johnf at persoft.com (John Freeborg)
Subject: Lower Hunter Airstat


   Is there a "Hunter Air Stat" thermostat which has a different range 
of temperature control?  I know the Hunter model is from 40 to 90 degrees
farenheit.  Is there any that go from 30 degrees to 60 or something like
that?

 - John

- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Freeborg          Software Engineer         Persoft
johnf at persoft.com                                465 Science Dr.
608-273-6000                                     Madison, WI 53711

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Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 22:24:41 CST
From: johnf at persoft.com (John Freeborg)
Subject: Hopback Wort Aeration


Subject: Hopbacks and Wort Aeration
 
    I have a paradoxical question for the digest.  I have a very experienced
brewing friend (12+ years) who is a self-proclaimed hophead.  He uses
a hopback during his brewing procedures.  His setup is such that after the
boil is over he has a pump which moves his hot wort into a strainer
containing an ounce or two of fresh leaf hops.  As the hot wort filters
through the hops (picking up valuable aroma) it falls about a foot into
his hopback (a 5-gallon soda keg with the top cut off).  The bottom of
the hopback has a valve which is attached to a counter-flow wort
chiller.  He has won numerous AHA awards over the years for outstanding
pale ales and many other fine beers.

So the now the question:  Everything I've ever read says aerating *hot*
wort is very bad, but aerating cool wort before yeast pitching is good.
So how come his hopback doesn't introduce massive oxidation since the wort
is still hot as it falls into the hopback and then cooled very quickly
as it falls into the fermenter (aerating again)?

 - John

- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Freeborg          Software Engineer         Persoft
johnf at persoft.com                                465 Science Dr.
608-273-6000                                     Madison, WI 53711

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Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 12:22:06 EST
From: mm at workgroup.com (Mike Mahler)
Subject: Whitbread Ale and Lager Yeast

	FWIW:  My local supply store has Crosby and Baker's packaging
	of Whitebread Yeasts and I've already used botht the Ale and Lager
	and both have produced quality brew.

	If there's wild yeast in there, I didn't taste/see anything.

	Michael

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Date: 18 Nov 1992 16:02:54 -0400
From: Ed Hitchcock <ECH at ac.dal.ca>
Subject: Beer aging

	Jack brought up the subject of aging beer in today's HBD.  The
problem?  Why does commercial beer get worse with age, while Homebrew
gets better (up to a point)?  The answer, of course, is that homebrew
is not filtered, and continues to mature in the bottle or keg.  Commercial
beer IS filtered, so that a) no more yeast settles out of suspension, 
b) no more corbonation is produced, and c) no more yeast by products are
released into the beer, all of which happens in homebrew while it ages
in the bottle.  If you filter and bottle your beer under pressure, then it
is best consumed fresh.  My homebrew is bottle conditioned, and is best aged
for at least 2 weeks if not a month or more to get nice and clear and
carbonated.  

	Ed


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Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 10:48:20 -0800
From: rpeck at pure.com (Ray Peck)
Subject: Jackson's Belgian Beer book


I posted a few months ago about "The Great Beers of Belgium" by MJ,
which I picked up in Brussels.  Not surprisingly, many people were
interested.

Flipping through "All ABout Beer" (the magazine) at a bookstore last
night, I spotted a 1/4 page ad for the book, "Available for the first
time in the U.S.".  $29.95, or $24,95 pre-publication price.  This was
named a "second edition", so I guess I'll have to buy it. . .



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Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 17:15:04 EST
From: Mark Gryska <mark at vicorp.com>
Subject: NE Fall Regional 1992

  Attention New England Homebrewers!!! The annual New England Fall
  Regional Homebrew Competition will take place on December 5, 1992.

  Here is the short list of details, for further information contact me
  via e-mail or Charlie Olchowski c/o Frozen Wort, 473 Main Street, 
  Greenfield MA 01301 (413) 773-5920.

  The NE Fall Regional Homebrew competition is a sanctioned competition
  judged by AHA/HWBTA recognized, certified, national or master judges
  and supervised apprentices under the judge program under AHA/HWBTA
  competition standards, rules and regulations.

  Entry deadline is December 3, 1992.

  Categories:

	Light Pale Beers
		a) (AL) American Light
		b) (CL) Continental Light
		c) (WB) Wheat Beer

	Amber Beers
		a) (PA) Pale Ale
		b) (SM) Steam Beers
		c) (OV) Oktoberfest, Vienna Style Lager
		d) (OA) Odd Ales ie, Alt, Belgian Ale, Kolsch, Scotch Ale, etc

	Brown Beers
		a) (BA) Brown Ale
		b) (CD) Continental Dark
		c) (BK) Bock

	Black Beers
		a) (PO) Porter
		b) (S) Stout

	Strong Beers
		a) (SB) Old Ales, Strong Ales, Barley Wine, Doppelbock, etc.

	Novelty Beers
		a) (NB) Kriek, Framboise, Spiced Ale, etc.

Host Club: Valley Fermenters
Sponsor: Northampton Brewery at Brewster Court, Northampton, MA.

Mark Gryska
mark at vicorp.com

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Date:         Wed, 18 Nov 92 18:28:50 EST
From: Estes <WOESSNER at VM.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Subject:      change address to woessner at psych.purdue.edu

I tried to change my address by writing the request address but I don't think
it worked.  please change my address to woessner at psych.purdue.edu

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Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 20:52:37 CST
From: bliss at csrd.uiuc.edu (Brian Bliss)
Subject: metallic flavors

>>  notice some do NOT mash these, but steep separately in the water being 
>>  heated  for mash-out temperature elevation. Are there negative implications
>>  to mashing chocolate/roasted, etc. 
>
>I believe that there are some possible unfavourable side effects to mashing
>chocolate malt and darker caramel malts. When mashing the specialty grains 
>along with the normal part (pale grains) I've noticed a tendency for the 
>finished beer to have metallic notes.

I always associated the metallic notes with adding too much water at
the end of the boil to bring up the total volume, instead of doing a
full boil.  It only seems to happen with dark malts.

>When the chocolate malt is added only 
>in the mash out, the metallic notes are not present.

I never tried adding chocolate malt only to the mash out.
Mashing definitely reduces the astringent flavor as opposed
to not mashing dark grains, but this may have to do with the
fact that a grain bed is filters the particles out more
effectively than a fine strainer.

> Nor does my water contain
>significant traces of iron. It is however possible that the extraction
>of metallic flavours from the darker malts is related to my high calcium
>hardness water.

Dark malts reduce the ph of the mash, and hard water can be quite acidic.
The dark malts also tend to discolor ph paper and make it read higher
than it actually is.  mashes with a ph below 5.0 can easily occurr (if
your mash water has no chlorine).

My batches that were metallic all had gypsum (or at least
burton water salts) added to them, just because it was part of
the recipe.  This further lowers the ph.  I no longer treat my
mash water, except to boil it to remove chlorine, but I've only
made 1 dark beer lately (a dry stout that turned out fine),
and that only had roasted barley in it, as far as dark malts go.

> But what ever the cause, the mash out only use of the
>darker specialty malts is a cure. I've had no problem with roasted barley
>in the mash itself, but have on occasion put it in the mash out in order
>to get a more subtle effect from the roast.

I've also noticed the problem mainly when using chocolate malt,
more so than with black patent or roasted barley.

On a final note, slight overcarbonation seems to exaggerate
the "metallic" effect.

bb

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Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 16:20:15 PST
From: Pat Lasswell <patl at microsoft.com>
Subject: RE: Real ale from a carboy

Conn writes:

| Well, I'm no physicist, but here goes. (Taking a breath). Your system doesn't
| appear closed to me, and therefore won't pressurise. Ie, CO2 will dissolve in
| the water column, and eventually will reach equilibrium with the atmosphere.

Excellent point.  The system is not closed and with sufficient time would
EVENTUALLY reach equilibrium.  How long is eventually?  I have no idea.
At 60degF, what would be the rate of diffusion of CO2 through 10' of water,
from a 5/16" dia. 5psi CO2-water interface to a 3" dia. water-atmosphere
interface?  Since most of the time, the bottom carboy would have some water
in it, and since the copper pipe would be filled with water, what is the
rate of CO2 diffusion through 10' of water at 60degF over a 5/16" dia. from
water saturated with 5psi CO2 to water saturated at atmospheric pressure?
The rate of diffusion in answer to the latter question is (I suspect)
sufficiently low, but a real quantitative answer would be more satisfactory
than just my gut reaction.

Thanks
Pat Lasswell


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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1016, 11/19/92