FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  three beers from one mash (THOMASR)
  Belgian Wheat Beer (SOMAK)
  Mexican Beers (STROUD)
  Handling Dry Malt (John DeCarlo)
  labels (   Paul Biron)
  Iodine test (Norm Pyle)
  Boston Boars ("ONREUR::JSAMPSON")
  Los Angelos area homebrew shops (Kevin V Martin)
  Acidblend (G.A.Cooper)
  Brewpub in Troy, NY (Lou Curcio)
  Ham Brew Forum (Mike Gauland)
  Santa Claus and Beer  (gkushmer)
  Subpoena, Legality of Eisbocks, Kalamazoo Brewing ("Donald G. Scheidt")
  For G. Fix: Clarification of DCI protocol (Dennis J. Templeton)
  Acidifying Sparge Caution ("Rad Equipment")
  acidifying sparge/wyeast specs (Ed Hitchcock)
  ASBC Methods of Analysis (James Driscoll)
  Carboy filling levels? How high is too high? (thutt)
  Addr: Problems (RKING)
  sparge/next day boil/too-dry cyser (Brian Bliss)
  Lion's Head Ale House (Kevin Krueger)
  Mixing yeasts in one batch? (Mike Mahler)
  thanks, yeast pitching, Anchor Steam, Sam Adams ("Knight,Jonathan G")
  Iodaphor problem (Phillip Seitz)
  need some all-grain tips (Frank Tutzauer)
  HSA (Jack Schmidling)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 12:32:03 MET
From: THOMASR at EZRZ1.vmsmail.ethz.ch
Subject: three beers from one mash

Hello all,
I thought you might be interested in this recipe I dug up from
a book on brewing by a man called F. Accum (second ed. published 1821!!!).
It details the "current method used to obtain a keeping ale, ale
and table beer" from a single batch of grains. I have translated it into
modern units, and scaled it down to give 5 gallons (UK) of wort for
the keeping ale:
31# pale malt
12.6 oz hops
mash No.1
4.86 gallons (UK) water at 160 for 1/2 hr
then add 1.36 gall(UK) at 156
mash for a further 1.5 hr, and draw off wort --> 5 gall (UK)

mash No.2
5.14 gall (UK) at 175
mash 1.5 hr, and draw off wort --> 5 gall (UK)

mash No.3
add 0.56 lb grains to the mash tun
6.7 gall (UK) at 175
mash 1.5 hr, and draw off wort --> 6.43 gall (UK)

Boil the first two worts sepatately with 6.3 oz (!!!!) hops
for 2.5 hr, and filter as usual
- --> 4.25 gall (UK) at 1100.6 and 3.8 gall (UK) at 1060

Boil the third wort with the used hops for 2.5 hr
- --> ca.6.43 gall (UK) at 1031.

By my calculation this gives 22 pts/pt/gall(UK)
- --> 27.65 pts/pt/gall(US) 
1 gall(US)=.8 gall(UK)??

By the way, keeping ale was a strong ale brewed so that it
would last through the summer when it was not possible to
brew (heat --> bugs --> lousy beer), whereas table beer
was the sort of stuff you had with breakfast (eg queen
elizabeth 1, who drank a quart of it each morning.

Hope this is of interest / use to someone out there.

Rob Thomas

P.S. the book also contains other recipes, eg porter, old ale
If there is demand I'll send them in.

P.P.S. I haven't brewed this recipe so caveat brewer!

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Date:    Tue, 15 Dec 92 13:41 PST
From: SOMAK%FITKJES2.BITNET at SEARN.SUNET.SE
Subject: Belgian Wheat Beer

I have one question concerning belgian beers that use wheat
in addition to barley malt.  Michael Jackson says that they
use (if I remember right) 40 or 50 % unmalted wheat.  Now I
wonder how do they mash it.  Papazian recommends not to use
more than 20 % unmalted grain, because otherwise there are not
enough enzymes.  Do they add enzymes, or do they have malts
that have very much enzymes?  Or is there some other explanation?
Looong mashing time or something like that?

Markku Koivula

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Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 08:30 EST
From: STROUD <STROUD%GAIA at leia.polaroid.com>
Subject: Mexican Beers

Al sez:

>Just a style note -- Corona is not a typical Mexican beer.  Mexican beers,
>in general are more full-bodied, amber in color and more flavorful.  Many
>are of the Vienna style.........

Nay, nay, I must disagree.  Al may WANT the Vienna style to be typical of
Mexican beers, but the sad truth is that Corona is the much more more typical
example.  The light watery beers like Corona, Tecate, Superior,
Chihuahua, Sol, etc etc ad nauseum have been so wildly successful that
many of the more interesting beers are either  no longer brewed or only
in small amounts.  Dos Equis and Negro Modelo are certainly better, but
they only account for a small percentage of the total sales of Mexican beers.


Steve

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Date: Tuesday, 15 Dec 1992 08:47:50 EST
From: m14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo)
Subject: Handling Dry Malt

Hello.  I use dry malt extensively for priming my beers.  If I fail
to seal the bag completely, it gets hard and I have to break it up.
I have noticed that if I put a chunk of this in water and try to
dissolve it, half the time I have zero success.

The chunk will melt and become taffy-like, but never dissolve.  Tastes
OK, though, as a sort of candy.  (Waste not, want not.)

Any hints on proper storage?  Anyone ever get chunked up malt to be
useful in the brewing process?  Thanks in advance.

Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org (or John.DeCarlo at f131.n109.z1.fidonet.org)
Fidonet:  1:109/131

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Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 08:50:56 EST
From: paulb%ted at juliet.ll.mit.edu ( Paul Biron)
Subject: labels

Lou Casagrande writes

<< My co-brewer and I have been looking for the kind of gummed labels
which must be wet in order to apply them (this is to make their
removal easier) which are also arranged in sheets so that they can be
fed through a laserwriter. Of course, we want to design our own
labels, and since we brew a variety of beverages, we need to be able
to easily print a variety of labels. Has anyone run across anything
like this? >>


I have not come across any gummed labels for laser printers. What I do
is make my labels on my printer with regular xerox paper. To affix them,
I dip them in milk then aply them to the bottles. They stick just as if they
had glue on them and they peel right off after dunking the bottle in warm 
water. Another advantage is that there is no gluey residue left on the bottles 
to clean up.

Paul Biron	M.I.T. Lincoln Lab
		Kissimmee, FL

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Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 07:04:16 MST
From: pyle at intellistor.com (Norm Pyle)
Subject: Iodine test

Ed Hitchcock writes:

>	Testing grains with iodine will skew your results.  The hard part
of the grain contains starches, such as cellulose, which test positive but
are not what you are trying to break down.  Try the iodine test on a small
quantity (1 teaspoon) of COOLED liquid, with as few grains as possible.

Do others agree with this?  I've had difficulty converting sometimes, based
on testing grains as well as the liquid.  I always scoop up some grain and
liquid onto the white surface before adding the iodine.  Eventually, the
iodine keeps it original color, and I continue.  If I was testing liquid only
I would certainly quit mashing sooner.  Comments?

Norm

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Date: 15 Dec 92 14:14:00 WET
From: "ONREUR::JSAMPSON" <JSAMPSON%ONREUR.decnet at onreur.navy.mil>
Subject: Boston Boars

Lemme get th



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Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 9:44:29 EST
From: Kevin V Martin <kmartin at magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: Los Angelos area homebrew shops


I am going to visit my in-laws in Los Angelos for Christmas.  My father-in-law 
has expressed some interest in homebrewing.  As usual, my wife and I are behind
in our Christmas shopping, so it is probably too late to go the mail order 
route.  Does anyone know of a good homebrew shop in Los Angelos, particullary 
in the Palos Verdes area?  Thanks, Kevin Martin

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Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 15:01:57 +0000
From: G.A.Cooper at qmw.ac.uk
Subject: Acidblend

From: dipalma at banshee.sw.stratus.com (James Dipalma)

>as well.  I saw the thread on tannin extraction, and decided to
>try acidifying my sparge water.
>       I got this stuff called 'Acidblend' from a friend who makes
>wine, and uses it for the same purpose, pH adjustment.  I don't
>know what's in it, but

It will be a blend of Tartaric, Citric and Malic acids (Can't remember the
specific proportions but it could be something like 50%, 30%, 20%). I don't
use these blends, I have all three (and some more) acids and add which I
think is most suitable. The most suitable is usually Tartaric: if it is
good enough for the grape it is good enough for me :-)
Most beermakers seem to prefer using Lactic acid, but commercially it is
not unusual to hear of them using Sulfuric acid (and Hydrochloric some-
times) for reducing pH.
A trivial technical point: winemakers add these organic acids to increase
the titrateable acidity not to reduce pH (there is a difference). The
titrateable acidity is a better measure of the effect of the wine on the
palate.

- ---

I can't remember who on HBD suggested using dishwasher powder for cleaning
plastic syphon tubes but ... I managed to get some grunge on the inside of
one of my hoses and soaking in my usual cleaners/sterilisers didn't have
much effect :-( Dishwasher powder worked a treat :-) Nice suggestion.

Geoff


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Date:         Tue, 15 Dec 92 09:37:20 EST
From: Lou Curcio <LACURCI%ERENJ.BITNET at pucc.Princeton.EDU>
Subject:      Brewpub in Troy, NY


Has anyone heard of a new brewpub in Troy, NY? The name is Brown &
Moran Brewing and it was supposed to open last month.  Any details,
such as the street address, would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

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Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 07:50:06 PST
From: gaulandm at tekig7.pen.tek.com (Mike Gauland)
Subject: Ham Brew Forum

I'd be interested, but not a regular participant.  My brewing experience is
quite limited, so I'd get much more out of it than I'd put in, and the
seven-month-old baby makes it hard to keep any schedules.

Good luck.  Maybe I should bring a different sort of example to the radio
club's next "Homebrew Night".

- --Mike   AA7JF


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Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 11:00:57 EST
From: gkushmer at Jade.Tufts.EDU
Subject: Santa Claus and Beer 


Hi everyone.

A co-worker just found this in the Houston Post (taken from a 1991
paper):

	THE BOTTOM LINE:  Regarding the controversial use of Santa Claus 
	in beer advertisements, Jay Leno reasoned, "I don't know what the
	fuss is all about.  Santa is the perfect spokesman for beer; he
	has a red nose, a pot belly, wears the same clothes all the time
	and works only one day a year."

Sounds like a role model for my life ;-)

- --gk

Greg K.


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Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 8:17:15 PST
From: "Donald G. Scheidt" <dgs1300 at aw101.iasl.ca.boeing.com>
Subject: Subpoena, Legality of Eisbocks, Kalamazoo Brewing

From: chuck at synchro.com (Chuck Cox):
>Well, I was served an interesting document the other day...

And I will documnent, right here, and right now, that I will *never* ever
again engage in any form of retail trade that will result in my consumption
of products made by:

>BOSTON BEER COMPANY LIMITED PARTNERSHIP,
>d/b/a THE BOSTON BEER COMPANY

a/k/a "Samuel Adams."  Beer isn't about lawsuits anywhere else but the USA,
and I'm fed up.  I will not consume, nor recommend for consumption, any of
Mr. Koch's products.  Perhaps it is a bit late, but I recommend that we
boycott the entire "Samuel Adams" product line, from okay-but-a-bit-bland
lager, through utterly-bogus-marginally-cranberry-flavoured-pseudo-lambic.
I notice that, out here in the west, we can have two products called "Blue
Heron Ale" (from BridgePort and Mendocino) without having to invite a
tasseled-loafer army of briefcase-packing attorneys into the fray.  Jim
Koch, GROW UP!  Oh well, you can tell a Harvard man, but you can't tell him
much...

>While issuing the ... subpoena is perfectly legal, I think it is also
>indicative of how absurdly litigious Koch & Co have become. 

Then make them pay for this stupidity out of their *own* pockets - don't
contribute to Koch & Co's profits.  The only other stupidity I know of
equal to this is the issue of the use of the Budweiser name - those pikers
from St.  Louis can't stand the thought of a certain high-quality Bohemian
beer with the same name being unleashed on the market, as it would show their
beer to be the bland, under-flavoured, process-controlled pap that it is.

From: STROUD <STROUD%GAIA at leia.polaroid.com>:
With regard to a couple of American-made 'Eisbocks':
>I was always under the impression that the BATF considers this practice to be
>illegal, since it is a form of alcohol concentration and hence is synonymous
>with distillation.
>
>Any comments?

Who cares, except the BATF ;-)?  If you're interested, go out and buy a sixer
or two of the Eisbocks, and hide them in the 'fridge.  Keep them for special
occasions and *very* cold winter nights.  If the BATF issues a 'cease and
desist' order to the brewers (distillers? :-), fine.  Also, consider this:
similar restrictions exist in Germany on the production of hard liquor
beverages by distillation, yet there is no problem with the production of
Eisbocks - save for the technical difficulty of doing so, and the relatively
limited market for such a strong form of beer.

Now, for a question of my own:

My brother moved from Michigan to Florida recently.  One of the last things
he did before moving, was to send me a couple of beers from the Kalamazoo
Brewing Co., "Third Coast Beer" and "Bell's Beer."  The "Third Coast" was
not bad, basically what seemed to be a top-fermented blond ale with a
substantial amount of Chinook and Cascade hops - quite bitter on the
palate, with a spicy finish.  The "Bell's Beer", on the other hand, was
extraordinary - it seems to be fermented with either a Belgian ale yeast, or
it undergoes a lactic secondary, I'm not sure which.  It also has the
characteristic flavour found in some Belgian wheat beers and triples.  So,
the obvious question:  can anyone out there tell me about the Kalamazoo
Brewing Co. and their products?  Recipes?  Maybe even send me some in trade
for Christmas ale from the Pacific Northwest???

Thanks, and cheers!

- -- 
Don                              | If we do not succeed, then we run the
dgs1300 at aw101.iasl.ca.boeing.com | risk of failure.
                                 | - not-yet-former Vice President Dan Quayle

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Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 11:21:13 -0500
From: djt2 at po.CWRU.Edu (Dennis J. Templeton)
Subject: For G. Fix: Clarification of DCI protocol



Any homebrewer interested int the chemistry of brewing is encouraged to 
check out the latest Zymurgy with an article by Dr. Geo. Fix on "hot side
aeration".  In the article, George describes a protocol ascribed to deClerk
for measuring the redox state (a measure of oxidation of wort) using DCI,
which the article expands into "dichlorophenol indolephenol".

>From my background in chemistry this sounded like an erroneous name, and I
suspected a misprint, and that the actual chemical was dichloroindolphenol,
hence the acronym.  In the chemical catalogs, though I found that both
names are applied to the same chemical.  The price seems quite reasonable
(e.g. Sigma D1878 is 10 grams for $30.50, or 1 g for 6.30).  It might be
appropriate for some HB suppliers to repackage this for general use.

However, there seems to be some information lacking from Dr. Fix's
otherwise excellent article.  He describes adding 0.25 ml of DCI to 10 ml
of wort, but the concentration of the DCI solution is lacking.  I thought
maybe that DCI was a liquid, and that it was meant to add the neat liquid,
but the Sigma catalog describes it as "Sodium salt, crystalline".  To
follow these instructions we need to know the concentration of the DCI
solution that is added.

I'm hoping that Dr. Fix or someone else who uses this method might clarify
this point, and maybe post the protocol for those who don't read zymurgy.

BTW, the new color zymurgy format is quite impressive (they managed to get
8 color pages on the "cover"; that's 7 pages of ad income right there).  
Overall, though, it is clear that they didn't spend the money on editing,
or even running their stories through a spell checker, since all of the
articles are riddled with typo's.

The last page features an oh-so-humerous look at Charlie P. laughing, and
lots of other people wearing Charlie P. masks.  Maybe the next change in
the Zymurgy masthead ought to be a sub title: 

	"Official magazine of the Charlie Papazian fan club"

Oh well, the quality of some of the articles makes up for the
self-indulgence, I suppose.

thanks for your input

dennis

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Date: 15 Dec 92 09:08:00 U
From: "Rad Equipment" <rad_equipment at rad-mac1.ucsf.EDU>
Subject: Acidifying Sparge Caution

Subject:  Acidifying Sparge Caution             Time:8:40 AM     Date:12/15/92
With all the talk of acidifying sparge water it is possible that this is one of
those practices which is on its way to becoming abused. Here is my caveat.

If your wort falls below a pH of 5.0 you may not get much of a hot break
(Miller). The pH of the wort will go lower as a result of the boil (also
Miller). Water is a poor buffer especially when it is in the neutral range (6.5
 - 7.5) and will become more acid when added to an acid mash rather than the
reverse. Dark malts are naturally acid and mashes which include them often need
to have their pH raised in order to maintain the 5.0 - 5.5 range.

My local water is soft and runs in the pH range of 6.3 - 6.8. My pre-boil wort
tends to be right at the lower edge of the acceptable range (5.0) even without
any dark malt. I tend to get a very poor hot break.

What this is leading to is this: Don't acidify your sparge water just because
other brewers do it. Check the pH of your water and your runnings to determine
if it is necessary. Certainly if you have hard water and you detect a tannic
flavor in the runnings you may want to make some adjustments, but a simple
pre-boil of the sparge water may be all you need. Even if you do acidify your
sparge, you may not need to do so for every recipe. If you do it for a pale ale
you may not need to do it for a stout or porter. Monitor all the points in the
process so you know what's happening.

Now, no doubt someone will ask, "What happens to wort pH after the addition of
the hops?" I don't know. I'll have to take some readings the next time I brew.

Perhaps George Fix (et al) will comment on my observations and add some
expertise to the discussion.

RW...

Russ Wigglesworth (INTERNET: Rad_Equipment at radmac1.ucsf.edu - CI$: 72300,61)
UCSF Dept. of Radiology, San Francisco, CA (415) 476-3668 / 474-8126


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Date: 15 Dec 1992 12:54:42 -0400
From: Ed Hitchcock <ECH at ac.dal.ca>
Subject: acidifying sparge/wyeast specs

The past few HBD's have had a lot on sparging and acidification of sparge
water.  Has anyone out there used ascorbic acid to acidify the sparge
water?  It occurs to me that it may also help to reduce the amount of
oxidation from splashing the recirculated wort.  I seem to recall vaguely
that Miller was opposed to using ascorbic acid, but I don't recall off hand
why...

	***	***	***	***	***	***

	There has been mention of a spec sheet for the different wyeasts,
their attenuation and flavour profiles and so forth.  Is there a copy of
this archived somewhere?  If not could someone post it to r.c.b or HBD? 
Or mail it to me?

	Thanks,
	Ed Hitchcock
	ech at ac.dal.ca

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Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 12:49 EST
From: jrd at research.att.com (James Driscoll)
Subject: ASBC Methods of Analysis

John Decarlo asks about certain citations to a
publication of the American Society of Brewing Chemists
(ASBC).

What he is probably seeing referenced are analytical
methods from Methods of Analysis of the American Society
of Brewing Chemists, Eighth Revised Edition (published by
the American Society of Brewing Chemists, 3340 Pilot Knob
Road, St. Paul, Minnesota 5512-2097)

This is a three inch thick ring binder containing
sections with names such as Malt, Beer, Sensory Analysis,
and Microbiology.  The methods are numbered, and have
names like Yeast-8: Killer Yeast Identification and
Hops-3: Aphids in Hops.  My personal favorite is
Microbiological Control-4B: Brewers Tomato Juice Agar
Medium.  Yuck.

These provide standardized methods for the brewing
industry and as such are quite precise and easy to
follow.  The bad news is that it costs $400 and many of
the methods require instrumentation and reagents not
easily obtained by even the enthusiastic amateur brewer
(or commercial microbrewer, for that matter).  

This probably isn't something that an individual amateur
brewer would want to spring for, but it is something that
a "techie" type homebrew club might want to consider
adding to their library.  It is also interesting to
anyone running a homebrew competition, since it contains a
section on sensory analysis with such methods as
Selection and Training of Assessors, Threshold of Added
Substances - Ascending Method of Limits, and Flavor
Terminology and Reference.

To give you a feeling for the book, below is reproduced
their version of a familiar test: (The methods are, of
course, copyrighted; but I hope they will find this a
fair use in what is essentially a review of their newly
issued Eighth Revised Edition.)

                                     Adjunct Materials
                                   Sugars and Syrups-8
                                           Page 1 of 1

                       IODINE REACTION

Reagent
(a) Iodine Solution, 0.02N. Dissolve 1.27 g iodine and
    2.50 g potassium iodide in a little water and dilute
    solution to 500 ml. Solution should be made fresh
    every month and stored away from light.  For daily
    use, keep portion of solution in small, dark dropper
    bottle.

Apparatus
(a) Test tubes.

Method
  Fill test tube to within 1 in. of rim with "10%
solution" prepared according to method of Adjunct
Materials, Sugars and Syrups-5 [which basically tells you
to take a 50 g sample and dilute to 500ml with 20 degree
C distilled water].  Carefully add 0.02N iodine solution
(reagent a) from dropper bottle to form distinct layer on
top of sugar solution.  Report color developed at
interface of two liquid layers by transmitted light.
Blue indicates presence of starch, purple "amylodextrin,"
reddish color "erythrodextrin."  Qualify result by using
terms faint trace, trace, or strong trace according to
whether color developed is faint, distinct, or strong.

1958, rev. 1976

  Happy Brewing,
  Jim Driscoll

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Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 13:04:33 EST
From: thutt <thutt at MAIL.CASI.NASA.GOV>
Subject: Carboy filling levels? How high is too high?

Hi all,

Still no response from Hawaii brewers.... Rats...

Given the following crude representation of a carboy, to which 
letter should I optimally be filling?

With my first batch, I filled to C, and had no problems.
With my second batch, I filled to B and the blowoff cap popped off.
With my third batch, filling to A, resulted in a completely plugged neck. 

I suspect that using Oak chips in batch three may have contributed to
the plug, I was not able to investigate the actual plug (as I tried
to clear it, it fell in.... (Yikes!))

Should I be altering my level of filling?

Point A is the last 2 inches or so from the lip.
Point B is all distance between the slant from vertical to point A.
Point C IS the slant from vertical (what I call the shoulder).
Point D is all points below C.

  {-----}
   | A |               Thanks.......
  /  B  \
(-   C   -)
|         |            Taylor Hutt (thutt at mail.casi.nasa.gov)
|    D    |            Chapioning worldwide usage of Oberon-2!
|         |
|         |
|         |            She takes my dinner,
|         |            Drinks my beer,
|         |            Spends my money
\---------/            But I do not care....    Scorpions 


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Date: 15 Dec 92 14:23:01 EDT
From: RKING at VUNET.VINU.EDU
Subject: Addr: Problems

Can someone comment on a problem I may be having. The last
two batches of lager I made turned sour on me. Extremely
distressing (they, too, gave the bacteria in the septic
tank a great binge). I think I got some contamination
because my two-year-old got into the air lock (my fault,
of course, both times), and I found it on the ground more
than once. Now the current batch of ale I'm making (VERY two-year-old
proof) has been in the primary for about one week and I was
considering bottling it without even putting it in the
secondary (everything looks so packed down there). Now, however,
I am getting a resurgence of fermination (actually, a very small
bubbling action, but still fermination starting again). Does anyone
know why this is? Have I got yet another bad batch with wild
yeasts on the way? Or, is it possible there are still a few
fermintable sugars, etc. left in the wort that simply have
not finished working yet? Any comments?
     Second, in regard to the current yeast conversations, I
want to mention that after the package swells up, if you don't
want to use a starter, you can simply pitch the yeast right from
the package into the cooled wort. I have done this and had great
results, but I wonder if this is not a good thing to do. Any
comments here? I admit making a good starter is better.
     Third, I bought some liquid yeast that does NOT have the
little diaphram you are supposed to smack, and have been
unable to get it going AT ALL with a starter. I bought it
cheap from a supply store and still have a few packages in
the refrigerator. But I can't get it to work. I wonder if it
is dead and I should throw it away. Has anyone had any experience
with this type of liquid yeast (it was cheap because it was several
months past the expiration date--I took a chance)?
     Thank you and best wishes for the holidays.
     --Richard King, Reference Librarian, Vincennes (Indiana)
        University


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Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 14:01:58 CST
From: bliss at csrd.uiuc.edu (Brian Bliss)
Subject: sparge/next day boil/too-dry cyser

>I use a zapapp lauter tun (bucket in bucket).  It was made from
>2 6.5 gallon buckets. all this talk about sparging and solution
>concentration had me thinking about my technique.  when sparging
>and adding sparge water, are you supposed to let the water level
>start to drop below the the top of the grain before adding more
>sparge water.  OR do you never let this happen.  All the books
>are pretty grey here.

Don't do it.  All my sparges used to stick, until I (in order of
apparrent importance:

1) stopped letting the sparge water level drop below the top of
   the grain bed

2) mashed out at 168F & insulated my lauter tun to keep the heat in

3) stopped trying to fit 20 lbs of grain in the thing.

4) got a rollermill (a MALTMILL)

I shouldn't have used the word "stuck".  the sparges just used to
take 4-5 hours :-)
Now they take about 1 hour (2 if I put 13 lbs of grain in)

- ----------------------------

>Don't just stash those second runnings to brew  another  day;  it
>won't  take  long  for them to turn sour.  Yes, you will boil the
>wort.  Too late: the damage has been done,

use them in a dry stout, or a belgian somethingorrether, where a
slight sourness is not objectionable.  A 12 hr lag period until
the next morning does not seem to produce any noticeable off
flavors, anyway (at least for me), so you can't rely on them
producing the sourness, either.

- ----------------------------

>I racked a gallon of cyser today.  Using M&F dry, the gravity fell
>from 1082 to 1002 in only 3 weeks.  I was somewhat disappointed:
>I used ale yeast instead of, e.g., champagne yeast to get a higher
>final gravity.  I figured the alcohol would kill off the yeast
>somewhere around 8% alcohol by volume, leaving me an FG of 1020
>or above.

Then keep adding sugar until it stops fermenting away.  I started a
batch of cider at 1.067 a few months ago and pitched withbread ale yeast,
and have added ~900g extra corn sugar so far.  Most of it ferments away,
but it leaves a little more sweetness every time.  It's finally in the
dry stage (as opposed to the arid extra dry stage) SG ~ 1.002 or so.

bb

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Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 16:34:00 CST
From: krueger at comm.mot.com (Kevin Krueger)
Subject: Lion's Head Ale House

Upon recommendation of one of the Chicago area brewheads, I checked
into the Lion's Head Ale House on the south side of Chicago.  One
word . . . excellent.  This place is the homebrewers ideal hangout.
Thirteen taps open of exellent American microbrews !!  I had
Celebration Ale from the tap . . . very tasty.  In fact, I had the
PA from SN right after that and I found them very similar in taste.
The Celebration had a ginger flavor to distinguish it from PA.  We
also had an Oatmeal Stout straight from a freshly tapped keg . . . 
it was so sweet and delicious I would have put it on my cereal !!

To add to the excellence of the brews, the ambience was excellent.
The place used to be a speakeasy in the 20's.  Very old iron castings
on the chairs and tables, mahogany woodwork, intricate ceiling artwork,
etc.

I know everyone doesn't want to read this, but we've heard so much
about the NW brewpubs that I thought I'd add a report from the heartland.

Ciao,
Kevin

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Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 17:43:48 EST
From: mm at workgroup.com (Mike Mahler)
Subject: Mixing yeasts in one batch?


	Has anyone tried using a lager yeast at bottling (so the bottles
	can be stored at cold temp's and still get carbonated) for a beer
	that was fermented using an ale yeast (whitbread in this case)?

	Michael


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Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 12:05:10 cdt
From: "Knight,Jonathan G" <KNIGHTJ at AC.GRIN.EDU>
Subject: thanks, yeast pitching, Anchor Steam, Sam Adams


First off, thanks to all the generous folks who responded to my queries about 
re-use of yeast and blowoff methods.  I have, so far as I can tell, 
successfully "washed" some Wyeast Irish, and re-started and pitched 1/2 of it 
in a new batch of stout.  Soon I will use the other 1/2 in a third batch of 
stout which will be fermented by gen-u-wine blow-off (5 gal. carboy w/ 1" 
hose stuffed in the neck).  New horizons are wonderful things.

With regard to re-pitching,  or pitching for the first time, I will re-
itereate that so far, although there have been interesting discussions 
regarding the theoretical merits of pitching at "high krausen" vs. pitching 
later, I can't tell the difference in lag time or in finished product.  I've 
only used liquid yeast for a few batches, but I always brew, cool and pitch 
in the late evening and when I get up in the morning, the beer is always 
bubbling no matter whether I pitched at H. K. or later.   
I also (knock on formica) haven't had any infections lately so I'm 
not *worried* about whether my lag time is 3 hours or 6, and I'm not going to 
stay up all night to find out, either.  Again, does anyone have any 
reservations about pitching after high krausen that are based on practical 
experience, either looooong lag times or off-flavors or something?

With regard to brewing something similar to Anchor Steam beer, always one of 
my favorites, I have picked up from reading the HBD that Northern Brewer is 
used for flavor and Hersbrucker for aroma.  I've also read that it's heavily 
dry-hopped.  Does anyone know whether it would be better to (1) use N.B. for 
boiling and finshing and Hersb. for dry-hop; (2) use N.B. for boil, Hersb. 
for finish and Hersb. again for dry hop; (3) use N.B. for boil, Hersb. for 
finish, and N.B. again for dry-hop?  I made a steam beer last year with 
nothing but N.B. and it was delicious; but I'd be interesting in getting 
something a little more Anchor-y and if Hersbrucker is the ticket, my 
question is where do I put it?

Finally, I have to say that I spent last summer in Boston drinking Sam Adams 
and liking it a lot.  I didn't think all that much of the lager, and I didn't 
bother with the Wheat or Light, but I enjoyed the ale thoroughly and I 
indulged in a bit too much of the Doppelbock - it gives quite the warm 
fuzzies.  However, I'm glad that my local wine shop can't get S.A. because if 
they really are being such litigious shitheads I'd have to exercise great 
will power to boycott them.

Sorry, that was too long.


Jonathan

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Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 02:47 GMT
From: Phillip Seitz <0004531571 at mcimail.com>
Subject: Iodaphor problem

I just threw away my brand new bottle of iodaphor.  Here's the sad tale:

Last week I used the stuff for the very first time, to sanitize my glass
secondary fermenter.  No problems, stuff worked great, everything seemed
nice and clean, with no residual smells.  As instructed on the bottle I
used the cap to measure out the proper amount--2 capfuls for 5 gals.

Tonight I used it again to sanitize my bottling bucket.  Not having a
nice even 5 gallon container (6.7 gals, actually), I measured out 20
ml with a graduated lab vial and filled the bucket.  Not only did the
stuff come out darker than above, but when I emptied the bucket there was
a distinct chemical smell and the bucket had been stained orange.  Well,
I rinsed many times, but still had the smell and color.

Here's where we add stupidity to misfortune.  At this point I realized that
I could simply scrub the bucket and start over, sanitizing with chlorine.
But then I thought about all those people who are supposed to know better
than I, etc. who use it without problems.  So I went ahead and racked
the beer into the bucket anyway.

While racking I siphoned some of my beer directly from the carboy into a
glass to taste and use for a gravity reading.  Tasted great--smooth, clean.
Then when I tasted the beer coming out of the bucket I got an acid, slightly
chemical flavor.  The vail of depression set in.  I bottled a case just
against the possibility that the beer fairy might bail me out, and dumped
the rest.  The bucket still smelled chemical, though two good, soapy
cleanings seem to have gotten most of it out.  

Observations:

1) I could have mis-measured, but I really don't think so.

2) The bucket had last been used for sparging, and had been cleaned but 
not scrubbed.  Could there have been a reaction to a residue on the interior.

3) Undetected stupidity on my part (always a possibility).

Despite the very real possibility of some slip-up on my own part, the
convenience of fast contact time and no rinsing (in theory) is not 
sufficiently fool-proof for me to throw away a full day's work.  (Or to
undergo the depression.)  I'm going back to chlorine.

Phil seitz
PSEITZ at MCIMAIL.COM

P.S. Anybody who wants to send me some beer to make me feel better is
welcome to do so.  :-)

P.P.S. Jack Schmidling will now give us a lecture on why we should trust
our own judgement and not defer to "experts".  He'll be right, too.

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Date: 16 Dec 1992 01:27:59 -0500 (EST)
From: Frank Tutzauer <COMFRANK at ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu>
Subject: need some all-grain tips

Well, I've decided to take the all-grain plunge.  My plan is to see what
Santa brings me, and then fill in the rest myself over Christmas break. 
In the mean time, I've got a few questions.

1.  I've pretty much decided to go Gott-cooler-with-slotted-pipes.  My
question is:  Do I need a false bottom and/or grain bag?  My brain says,
"No, man, that's what the pipes are for," but my gut feeling is it would be
pretty wierd to dump the mash straight on the pipes, plus a grain bag would
help in clean up.  So do I listen to my brain or my guts?

2.  Instead of a copper manifold, what about PVC?  Somebody in the 
latest-minus-one Zymurgy mentioned using PVC, but gave no details.  I've
never heard of anyone else doing it either, but it seems it would be
easier to put together and take care of.  Whaddya think?

3.  Should I get a round cooler or a rectangular one.  I know both are used.
Is there any inherent advantage to one of them, or does it not matter?  If
I use a rectangular one, what is the optimal size?  (I only plan on doing
5-gallon batches.)

4.  To hit target temperatures, I know that you add water at above-desired 
temperatures.  For you physics types:  Is there an easy (or not so easy) 
formula along the lines of I've got X amount of grain in Y amount of water
at Z temperature.  If I add (I'm running out of letters) R amount of water
at S temperature, the total will stabilize at the desired T temp?
Surely trial and error will help me build up experience, but a formula
sure would be nice.

Well, that's enough for now.  I'm sure I'll have more questions later.

seeya,
- --frank


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Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 22:00 CST
From: arf at ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: HSA

 
 George Fix and Micah Millspaw, in separate articles in the current issue of 
 Zymurgy, discuss Hot Side Aeration and steps to minimize it.  Recent changes 
 to the World's Greatest Brewery serendipitously put me one step ahead of the 
 experts.
 
 Lugging gallon jugs full of hot sweet wort downstairs to the boiler was not 
 only a drag but sooner or later, dropping one (the first one naturally) would 
 be inevitable and now I find that glugging the hot wort into the kettle was a 
 great way to introduce HSA.
 
 Two batches ago,  I drilled a hole in the kitchen floor and ran a 1/8" FDA 
 type plastic tube from the Easymasher spigot on the mash/lauter tun right 
 into the brew kettle down below.
 
 Assuming that these authors are correct, it appears that I need to extend the 
 bottom end of the tube down to the bottom of the kettle to prevent splashing.
 
 As I am not sure I want a plastic tube in my boiling beer, someone is going 
 to have to convince me that this splashing is different from the normal 
 turbulence of a good rolling boil.  One of the authors advises, that even 
 stirring the mash introduces HSA.  What goes on in a rolling boil that 
 prevents HSA compared to stirring a much cooler mash?
 
 BTW, aside from the obvious convenience of the gravity fill, it has the 
 advantage of not disrupting the boil everytime a gallon of wort is added.  I 
 light the burner when there is about three gallons in the kettle and once the 
 boil is underway, it continues without interruption to the end.
 
 The only problem is, I can no longer count jugs to know who much wort I have 
 put into the kettle.  As it boils continuously and I heat sparge water 
 continuously as I use it, I really never know exactly but it really doesn't 
 matter.  I quit boiling when the volume and gravity are what I want.
 
 My brewing is now more like monitoring a process than self-inflicted 
 drudgery.
 
 js
 

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1034, 12/16/92