FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Stuck fermentation? (Steve Zabarnick)
  RE: gas leaks (James Dipalma)
  CO2 pressure (Russ Gelinas)
  Growing Hops (jfunk)
  Beer Camp (LEONH001)
  cold plate question (mcnally)
  Cops are after you from Micah Millspaw ("Bob Jones")
  Lab Grade >= Food Grade ? (Mark Cronenweth)
  kegging (Brian Bliss)
  Herbstoffe and Spiders (George J Fix)
  KETTLE MASHING (Jack Schmidling)
  Re:  COPS, homebrewing, and the WOD (Richard Childers)
  Ninkasi Beer (Rick Myers)
  OAT POST (Bruce Given     )
  great beers of belgium ("Ray Brice")
  Stand up to COPs! (Tom Strasser)
  Maibock Recipe ("Hank E. Eggers")
  RE: Charcoal Water Filters (Darryl Richman)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Jan 93 08:32:49 -0500
From: steve at snake.appl.wpafb.af.mil (Steve Zabarnick)
Subject: Stuck fermentation?

I am a new homebrewer working on my first batch. I used 3.25 lbs of Edme
Bitter Hopped Malt Extract and 3 lbs of Laaglander Amber DME for 5 gallons.
I started the yeast (1 package Edme Ale Yeast) in one cup of water boiled
with 2 Tablespoons DME, at 80 degrees. 1 oz of Fuggles pellets were boiled
for 30 minutes, 2/3 oz of Hollertau for 10 minutes, and 1/3 oz Hollertau
for 5 minutes. The yeast was pitched at 90 degrees (is this too high? -- I
followed the online beginners guide from Rob Gardner, but have since read
that pitching should occur closer to 75-80 degrees).

A fermentation lock was placed on the primary (bucket) and the fermentation
begun in a 62 degree room. The OG was measured as 1.048. Bubbling began
within 5 hours and was vigorous the following day. My concern is that on
the second day the bubbling in the fermentation lock has completely
stopped. This seems too soon. Bubbling fermentation only occurred for 36
hours. As the bubbling had stopped, I opened the primary and measured a SG
of 1.022. This seems too high. My question is: what should I do now? Should
I rack to the secondary and wait for fermentation to restart? Is this the
fault of the Laaglander DME, which is apparently notorious for high TG's?
Do I need to add yeast nutrient? Do I need to add more yeast? Should I rack
to secondary and then bottle after a week? How will this high TG affect the
taste of the final product?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Steve Zabarnick
steve at snake.appl.wpafb.af.mil    OR
zabarnic at udavxb.oca.udayton.edu


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Date: Thu, 7 Jan 93 09:12:33 EST
From: dipalma at banshee.sw.stratus.com (James Dipalma)
Subject: RE: gas leaks


Hi All,

  In HBD #1050, James Smith writes:

>Okay, dumb question.  If you turn off the gas at the tank and let the
>system sit for a while, and you have (the inevitable) leaks, won't the
>beer go flat?  Or do soda kegs have check valves built in?

  Not such a dumb question, I think it's just that James has a much
different setup than mine.  I use soda kegs, not 1/2 barrels, and I
don't have taps installed in the fridge as he does.  I keep about
12-15 psi on the kegs as a "maintainence pressure".  When not in use,
I don't leave the hose barbs connected to the keg.  Both the gas "IN"
and liquid "OUT" fittings on soda kegs have a check valve in them, which
is closed when the hose barbs are removed, keeping the keg sealed. If
the hose barbs are left on, the check valve is open, and the only remaining
seal is between the small rubber gasket on the fitting and the inside of
the hose barb.  IMHO, this is a primary candidate for both gas and
(shudder) liquid leaks, not to mention the wear and tear on the valve
spring from keeping it compressed continually.


                                   Cheers,
                                     Jim

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Date:    Thu, 7 Jan 1993 9:14:22 -0500 (EST)
From: R_GELINAS at UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas)
Subject: CO2 pressure

   Someone asked this before, and I don't remember seeing an answer,
so here it is again.  After beer has been carbonated in a keg, say to
2 volumes (or something like 20 lbs. at 50 degF), what pressure should
be kept in the keg to retain that level of carbonation all the way to
the last pint?  (the last pint being quaffed a couple/few weeks later,
and assuming no change in temperature)

Russ

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Date: Thu, 07 Jan 93 09:13:43 EST
From: jfunk <jfunk at MAIL.CASI.NASA.GOV>
Subject: Growing Hops

I need some advice from some of you who have successfully grown your own hops. I
live in the Mid-Atlantic region ( Northern Maryland ), and would like to know 
what time of year is best for growing, harvesting. Also things like soil 
composition, fertilizer, composting, etc would be helpful to know. 

                                        Thanks! 
                                        Jim.


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Date: 07 Jan 1993 11:19:07 -0500 (EST)
From: LEONH001 at mc.duke.edu
Subject: Beer Camp

Hi All,
Has anyone been to the "Beer Camp" at Oldenberg Brewery?  My wife
gave me a gift of it for Christmas and I am wondering if it is worth
the $600.  (Camp is $341 rest is airfare).  Please contact me at
leonh001 at mc.duke.edu.   Thanks!   Dave Leonhard

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Date: Thu, 07 Jan 93 08:20:36 -0800
From: mcnally at wsl.dec.com
Subject: cold plate question


Many HBD's ago, Jack S. described a wonderful-sounding contraption
called a "cold plate", I think.  I have the impression that the thing
is some sort of in-line rapid-chilling device that chills beer from
a room-temperature pressurized keg on the way to the glass.  Is that
correct?  If so, can these things be bought for not much money (i.e.,
less than the cost of a spare fridge to keep the kegs in)?

_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-
Mike McNally                                           mcnally at wsl.dec.com
Digital Equipment Corporation
Western Software Lab

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Date: Thu, 7 Jan 93 08:25:56 PST
From: "Bob Jones" <bjones at novax.llnl.gov>
Subject: Cops are after you from Micah Millspaw

About this search for the still. This greatly concerns me, many times I
have had people who know that I homebrew, ask if I have a still
(with which I make the beer) I say no. When people come over and ask 
if they can see my brewing equipment, they look at it and say, so this is
the still. This line of questioning bothers me a great deal and I often
make efforts to explain. The problem is, that per BATF regs (a vestige
from the Volstead Act) it is not legal to possess a still (in the USA)
for any reason or use.(it is possible to obtain a permit from the BATF
but this requires a bond and so on) In the USA the possession of a still
can result in forfiture of the property that the still was found on as 
well as other punishment. The Volstead Act was the enforcement aspect
of Prohibition. The precedents set by this Act are the basis for the 
narcotics seizure and property forfiture laws. Start looking at the
BATF regulations and you will start to wonder if prohibition was actualy
repealed. 
 The rubb is that homebrewing equipment is basically the same
as the larger part of the stuff need to distill. It will most likely
be proven in court that the homebrewing equipment could be used for
illegal distillation wither it was or not. Be concerned this could happen
to you. Also discourage people from going around saying so and so has
a still and he makes beer. Because some, over zealous cop will break down
your door and arrest you and your will have to get a lawyer to prove
(at your expense) that you are innocent, if possible. It could be proven,
by an expert of course, that your homebrewing equipment is in fact 
potential distilling equipment and then what do you do, say yes it could
be used for that, but I didn't do it. Remember if your innocent can't
be convicted.
 It seems that many people beleive that brewing and distillation 
are the same. All that it could take is for someone to say that so and so
has a still (which you don't) and next thing you know the police are 
breaking down the door. Most are ignorant of the laws concerning the 
production of alcoholic beverages. I've encountered people who make their
own wine and brandy (making brandy is illegal) but were shocked at my
making beer because they were certain that homebrewing is illegal. These
same individuals later told me that it was legal for ethnic Portuguese only
to make their own brandy in California (and they actually beleive this).
 I've even had the pleasure of being grilled by the FBI over my
homebrewing. The FBI agent asked if I knew that I had admitted to commi-
ting an illegal act by naming homebrewing as one of my hobbies. There was 
also concern that if I was making beer that I was probably making other 
drugs as well. Make beer and your in bad company. They also annoyed my 
neighbors about this as well, which did little to improve my standing in 
the area. Also there is an article in the latest issue of American 
Brewer that tells of the state of Georgias efforts to stamp out homebrewing
by busting home beer and wine making shops for selling illegal parphen-
alia, such as yeast.
 I guess that the point that I am trying to get across is that this
could happen to any homebrewer. And that educating the public, ie.. friends,
neighbors,etc...,is the only way to prevent such an incident. Misinformation
can be very hazardous to you.

micah
1/6/93

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Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 12:20 EST
From: Mark Cronenweth <CRONEN at vms.cis.pitt.edu>
Subject: Lab Grade >= Food Grade ?

My biology teacher buddy just acquired an unused 5-gallon container which we
think might be useful somewhere in the brewing process.  It's a heavy-duty
opaque plastic "jug" with a screw-on lid about 6" diameter, with a spigot
near the bottom.  My friend believes that, since this vessel was intended for
lab experiments, the plastic is inert and free from bad chemicals, since
these might ruin the data.  He says it's "Lab Grade".  I have 2 questions:

Do any of you scientists out there know how a "lab grade" container
compares with "food grade"?  Would it be OK to consume beer that has come in
contact with a lab grade container, assuming it was clean to begin with?

Also, since the spigot is about 1.5" from the bottom of the container, I
thought it would make an ideal vessel for secondary fermentation, since we
could tap the beer right off the trub into bottles.  Also, if we left the
screw-on cap in place, we might be able to use it to carbonate or maybe lager
a batch in the fridge.  Any ideas about this?

Mark Cronenweth, University of Pittsburgh


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Date: Thu, 7 Jan 93 11:46:41 CST
From: bliss at csrd.uiuc.edu (Brian Bliss)
Subject: kegging

> I racked the beer
>straight from the carboy to the keg with no priming.   I put the
>tap back in and pressurized it to ~25 psi.  I didn't get any
>guidelines as to pressure vs. style, so this was a guess based
>on a  recommendation of 20-40 psi.  I removed the lines and rolled
>the keg around  for 10 min or so on the basement floor and tapped it.

First of all, you need to get the beer cold before you agitate it,
and secondly, do not disconnect the pressure lines before agitation-
the beer will absord the CO2 in the headspace and more is needed
from the tank after agitation begins.  How much pressure you need
depends upon how cold the beer is-you need less when it is colder.

bb

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Date: Thu, 7 Jan 93 11:41:08 CST
From: gjfix at utamat.uta.edu (George J Fix)
Subject: Herbstoffe and Spiders

Many thanks to Martin Lodahl for fielding the questions sent to him.
Boy, did we get our money's worth with his responses. To wit:
 
>I've run across astringency in some of the best lambiks I've had, and 
>most especially in some of the young (vos) lambiks served from casks
>in specialty cafes.  I don't have your experience of German beers and
>wouldn't recognize true Herbstoffe, but the astringency I'm thinking
>of in this instance is of the husky, grainy sort we often associate
>with hot sparges, and as lambik brewers frequently sparge hot, I've
>been assuming that was the cause.  "Nutty", "sherry-like" and even
>"cigar-like" oxidation products are frequently named in my tasting
>notes.  These could well be HSA products, couldn't they?  Oddly, these 
>flavor notes seem altogether appropriate to the beers I've found them 
>in -- not a defect, but part of their character, even their charm.  
>Many lambiks, whether insipid (Belle Vue), regrettable (Lindeman's) 
>or splendid (Frank Boon) don't have identifiable astringency, but 
>many seem to.

Many people, and yours truly is as guilty as they come, detect astringency
very easily, and then consciously or unconsciously consider it a flaw. It
has been reported that overconcentration of one's brewing activities on
Viennese style beers can do this to one's palate! Nevertheless, as Martin's
comments suggest, with Lambik these issues are far more subtle. By the way,
I did fly the term "Herbstoffe" by some language experts and they noted that
the translation "grain astringent" was correct but incomplete. This term
also conveys a "unpleasant" feature as well. Thus, if "common use" rules
are used, then astringent tones like those cited above should not be
cited as examples of "Herbstoffe". Great point Martin. C.R. Saikley's
comments in HBD#1049 were, as always, dead on target as well.


I have also received some really witty e-mail from members of the Spider
Appreciation Society. They correctly point out, as did C.R. and Martin, that
spiders provide protection against fruit flies and other bugs. They also
make the excellent point that this is natural protection and does not involve
chemical cleaners, etc. Anyone with even the slightest social conscious will
be sensitive to and applaud that point. Nevertheless and alas, I remain a
hopelessly unreconstructed reactionary on this point, and if given a vote, it
would go toward removal of the cob webs. Perhaps this is related to the severe
emotional trama received upon walking into a room with an open fermenter in high
kraeusen, and with everything (including the sides of the fermenter) being
adorned with cob webs. Surely there is a better way to go. One that is natural,
yet one that is less stressful to those who worry about what it is that spiders
do after lunch.  

Martin > Outstanding post.
Spider Society > You folks seem like a really fun group. When and where do
                 you meet?

George Fix




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Date: Thu, 7 Jan 93 10:20 CST
From: arf at ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: KETTLE MASHING

 
 
 
                 KETTLE MASHING,   Part 2
 
 The following procedure is intended only as a starting point 
 that I know works well enough to assure a successful, first, 
 all-grain experience.  I do not want to get into endless 
 discussions about the pros and cons of the procedure at this 
 time nor do I even claim that I brew beer this way.  There 
 are an infinite number of variations that could be fodder 
 for future articles but the object of this one is to 
 introduce the approach and brew a simple batch of all grain 
 beer.
 
                      MASHING
 
 The first step is to dump 8 lbs of crushed pale malt into 
 the kettle.  Don't forget the screen!  Add 3 gallons of warm 
 tap water and mix thoroughly.
 
 Apply heat and raise temp to 155F.  Stir frequently to avoid 
 caramelizing and to distribute the heat.  Hold this temp for 
 30 minutes by adding heat and stirring as necessary.
 
 After 30 mins at 155F, crank up the heat and continue 
 stirring until 178F is reached.  This step is known as 
 "mashout" and is difficult or impossible to do with the 
 plastic bucket approach.  It is my opinion that it 
 eliminates one source of a common problem with first all 
 grain batches known as a "set mash.
 
 Hold this temp for 10 minsutes, then turn off the heat and 
 let it rest while heating water to a boil on another burner.  
 Use a pan that holds at least two quarts of water.
 
                     SPARGING
 
 The level of wort in the kettle should be about an inch 
 above the grain when it settles.   Lay a small bowl on top 
 of the grain to distribute the sparging water and minimize 
 the disturbance of the grain.
 
 Open the spigot just a trickle and run the wort into a cup 
 until it runs clear.  Pour the turbid runoff back into the 
 kettle.   With this setup, it will run clear after a few 
 ounces.  Again, as comparison, it sometimes takes gallons 
 with the other system and this must be recycled back into 
 the mash till it does run clear.
 
 The object of sparging is to extract as much sugar from the 
 grain as possible.  The longer it takes, the more efficient 
 the extraction.  Adjust the outflow so that it takes at lest 
 10 mins to fill a gallon jug.  Pour the boiling water into 
 the bowl as available or necessary to keep about an inch of 
 water over the grain.  The availability of boiling water 
 will probably be the limiting factor on sparge rate.
 
 Most brewers will tell you that the sparge water should not 
 exceed 170F but if you use boiling water in this system, the 
 average temp will be far below 170F and you will be lucky to 
 keep it above 150F.  You can fiddle on your next batch.  
 Trust my on the first.
 
 The first runoff should be about 1.080 and you quit when it 
 gets below 1.010.  The total blend will produce 6 to 7 
 gallons at about 1.035 which, after boiling will yield 5 to 
 6 gals at 1.040.  Collect the wort in gallon jugs or five 
 gallon plastic buckets (can't get away from them). 
 
 
               Continued............

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Date: Thu, 7 Jan 93 11:26:15 PST
From: Richard Childers <rchilder at us.oracle.com>
Subject: Re:  COPS, homebrewing, and the WOD


Regarding the recent thread about the busted homebrewer, I see three
possibilities ... in order of likelihood :

	(1)	The cops were using the home brewing equipment in bad
		faith, since they knew he wasn't running a still but
		knew that the judge wouldn't know that and that the
		situation could be safely misrepresented, to get the
		warrant to bust him for marijuana cultivation - which,
		as others have noted, is far more a service to his
		community ... like homebrewing, it is being independent
		and productive and creative and nurturing - than a
		threat or anything that might damage the commonwealth
		that the COPS allege to represent.

	(2)	The cops were as stupid as the judge, and misled by the
		informant, who had a grudge, or a bias against marijuana.

	(3)	The guy was genuinely running a still ... which does not,
		prima facia, seem to be the case, although, off hand, I'm
		not sure it would be possible to prove this, since the
		equipment needed for both is essentially identical, and a
		wort cooler could probably be used as a distillation coil.
		This means this could happen to _any_ of us, and anything
		you have that is illegal on the premises will be used to
		justify their action - anything. Unregistered gun, for
		example, they could and probably would parley it into a
		federal case if they could, before they'd admit that they
		had made a mistake and owed you compensation / apologies.

		Personally, I don't see the difference between brewing
		beer, wine, and other alcohol so long as you are neither
		selling it nor creating a threat to the wellbeing of your
		neighbors.

		What this sort of implies is that if they're going to
		break down your door when you're _not_ distilling, and
		try to make it look like you are ... you may as well,
		anyway.

I think the circumstances suggest that marijuana was the target and home-
 -brewing was used to justify it, no thought given to the thousands of well-
 -meaning and generally law-abiding homebrewers. This is consistent with
War On Some Drugs thinking. How do y'all like it when it returns to roost ?


- -- richard

=====
- -- richard childers		rchilder at us.oracle.com		1 415 506 2411
         oracle data center  --  unix systems & network administration

	 ... whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.


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Date: Thu, 7 Jan 93 14:17:01 MST
From: Rick Myers <rcm at col.hp.com>
Subject: Ninkasi Beer

I have scanned the complete July/August 1991 _Archaeology_ magazine
article about the Anchor brewery's adventures in brewing their
"Ninkasi" brew, into uuencoded GIF format files.  I will make them
available to anyone who requests them via email.  Be warned, however,
the entire 10 pages consume a little over 2Mb, and if your mailer cannot
handle the file sizes, I will NOT break them down into smaller pieces...I
will mail each page separately, however.  The largest file size is 437Kb.
I will NOT entertain questions such as "How do I decode these files",
"How do I display them on my Sun workstation", etc.

Enjoy.

- --
Rick Myers    rcm at col.hp.com
Information Technology Specialist
Hewlett-Packard
Network Test Division
Colorado Springs, CO

"I don't drink milk.  Milk is for babies.  I drink BEER!!!
 - Arnold Schwarzenegger

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Date: 07 Jan 1993 14:47:58 -0700
From: Bruce Given <SCN146 at WACCVM.corp.mot.com>
Subject: OAT POST


A request for the HBD. I am in the process of collecting Oatmeal
stout recipes,If anybody has a favourite can you post it on the
Net or to me privately , I promise that I will post them when
I have a good amount collected.( recipes in the Cats Meow don't
count.)

 Cheers !!!

 Bruce ...




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Date: Thu, 7 Jan 93 15:41:18 MST
From: "Ray Brice" <ray at hwr.arizona.edu>
Subject: great beers of belgium


My boss recently saw a book by Michael Jackson
entitled: "Great Beers of Belgium".

Can anyone give me a brief review of it and/or
a place to purchase this?  You can email me
directly.

Thanks!

ray at hwr.arizona.edu

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Date: Thu, 7 Jan 93 17:52:08 EST
From: strasser at raj2.tn.cornell.edu (Tom Strasser)
Subject: Stand up to COPs!

	I am writing in hopes of convincing a large number of you to
voice your opinion in defense of homebrewed beer, a subject near and
dear to most of our hearts.  I figure that that many of us (including
myself) do not watch shows such as COPs, however the rumblings heard
here weren't as bad as my personal rumbling when I read the
transcription of the segment sent to me by Rick Hapanowicz (after he
reviewed the video he mentioned here on Tuesday).  As discussed earlier
the show COPS broadcast an episode where they allegedly
arrested a man for distilling liquor, while in actuality all
they showed was homebrewing kegs, immersion chillers, being
confiscated and referred to these as illegal equipment.  The show
was so disturbing  to me personally that I have written a letter
to both the local Fox station and the producers of the COPS show,
and would like to very strongly encourage you to get as many
letters sent as possible from your own contacts.  I have already sent
out mail to club contacts throughout the country, which includes the
transcript of the show segment detailing what I personally feel are 
misrepresentations in the show.  I am willing to send this transcript to
anyone who wishes it, to encourage you to voice your opinion to your
local fox affiliates, and to the COPs producers at the address I have
given below. 
	A small number of brewers here have been apathetic about
the negative exposure, saying that the people who watch a show of
this nature aren't worth trying to educate.  I would like to
point out that this may not seem so trivial as some ignorant
neighbor results in your arrest and the confiscation of your
brewing equipment.
	So if each of you could take some time to vioce support for
homebrewing I feel it would be to the benefit of all involved.  I feel
this is one point most all of us should agree on, and hope we can make
our voice well heard.  If anyone would like a copy of the transcript, or
the letters I sent to COPs, and the local affiliate, I would be happy to
forward them in hopes that this would induce more response from
homebrewers around the country.  Thanks in advance for your efforts
	
COPs Address (Thanks Rick):
COPS
c/o STF Productions
P.O. Box 900
Beverly Hills, CA 90213

Auf ein neues,

Tom Strasser...strasser at raj5.tn.cornell.edu...strasser at crnlmsc2.bitnet


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Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 16:53:16 -0800 (PST)
From: "Hank E. Eggers" <heggers at eis.CalState.EDU>
Subject: Maibock Recipe



Fellow brewers...Just wanted to know if anyone has or has seen a recipe
for a brew similar to EKU Kulmbacher Maibock? This is my favorite brew but
it is 1) expensive 2) hard to find (if at all)..Currently, I am only a
lowly extract brewer but if my only choice is a grain recipe, it my be
enough encouragement to give it a shot. Thank you!


Hank Eggers		Internet: heggers at eis.CalState.edu

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Date: Fri, 7 Jan 93 17:40:58 PST
From: Darryl Richman <darrylri at microsoft.com>
Subject: RE: Charcoal Water Filters

Jim Grady <jimg at hpwarga.wal.hp.com> writes:
> Back in HBD #1040 (24 Dec. - I just caught up from the holidays!) Darryl
> Richman says:

Hope you got all you wanted at Xmas!

> > There is no need to boil all your water before you brew.  If your water
> > comes with a lot of chlorine, an activated charcoal filter will remove
> > it.  You need only boil and decant your water if you have a lot of
>
> This is true but I misread it at first and thought I would emphasize
> that if you use a charcoal filter you should boil all of your brewing
> water either before or while you are brewing.  Many of us extract brewers
> boil only part of the wort and I must confess that when I lived in a
> town with better tap water, I made up the 5 gallons straight from the
> tap.  I have since moved to a new town that has a lot of chlorine in the

This is an excellent point.  Even though one may have had success in 
the past relying on tap water, there is no guarantee that the tap 
itself has not become contaminated by some food particle or other vector.

> water (0.7 ppm) so I bought a chlorine water filter for the house
> thinking this means I don't need to boil the water from the tap.  Well,
> according to Miller (I think it's his new book, "Brewing the World's
> Great Beers") and my backyard neighbor (who sells filters & such to
> industry) active charcoal filters are _great_ breeding grounds for
> bacteria.  In addition to collecting all sorts of organics for them to
> munch on, the media itself promotes growth.

This is another good point.  You can, however, buy charcoal filters 
that are impregnated with silver, which acts as a bacteriostat.  These 
will eventually grow bacteria when they get near their usage limits.

		--Darryl Richman


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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1051, 01/08/93