FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  GIF / ppm<->mg/l / safe water (Todd M. Williams)
  1) right yeast for Barleywine? 2) Priming with malt extract? (Steven Tollefsrud)
  BEST iodine (idophor?) ("Spencer W. Thomas")
  stuck fermentation? (XLPSJGN)
  Hop question? ("C. Lyons / Raytheon-ADC / Andover, MA")
  Re: Phil's Phalse Bottom (Jay Hersh)
  Teaspoons to milliliters (hjl)
  Re: Natural Keg Carbonation: Haddad Replies  ("Robert Haddad" )
  Windsor, Nottingham Ale yeasts  (W.R.) Crick" <heybc at bnr.ca>
  priming sugar and head retention (Peter Maxwell)
  Brews Paper, Sparging (Jack Schmidling)
  RE: decoction mashing (James Dipalma)
  100% munich malt ("Daniel F McConnell")
  History of "33" in brewing? (Ted Barber)
  Yeast nutrient (fawcett)
  Re: Trivia (Richard Stueven)
  Hops & Hepatitis; Polenta ("Stephen G. Pimentel")
  using steel cut oats in stout (Brian Smithey)
  Query (Mike Leclere)
  Changes at the Archives ("Stephen E. Hansen")
  Questions about mashing, sweet finishes, clean burners, etc. (Chris Cook, NMOS Quality Engineer - (301)386-7807)
  compiling new list (Carlo Fusco)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Jan 93 05:49:24 CST
From: todd at gold.rtsg.mot.com (Todd M. Williams)
Subject: GIF / ppm<->mg/l / safe water


In HBD#1057 Mike Leclere <msl at orca.rose.hp.com> asks...

	>SNIP<

>>I recall seeing a blurb somewhere about beer logos or labels having been
>>scanned into GIF files.  I think it was in the HBD, but I'm not sure.
>>"Where to find beer logo GIFs."
>>
>>Mike (msl at hprnd.hp.com)

In HBD#1049 "Stephen E. Hansen" <hansen at Sierra.Stanford.EDU> wrote...
>Subject: Changes at the Archives
>
>Over the holidays I spent some time reorganizing the Homebrew Archives
>at Sierra.Stanford.EDU.  The first change that you will notice is that
>almost all files have been placed in subdirectories such as "docs",
>"programs", "digests", etc.  The most significant change however is
>that the issues of the Hombrew Digest are now stored as individual
>files rather than shar files or tar files.  The Digest index files now
>cover a whole year and the index for the current year is updated with
>each new issue.  New issues will also be placed directly in the
>appropriate subdirectory (i.e. digests/1933) as they are received.
>
>SNIP<
>
>Those of you who don't follow the rec.crafts.brewing newsgroup might
>be interested in the contents of the "images" directory.  It currently
>has about 70 files containing pictures of various beer labels and
>coasters in GIF and JPEG format.
>
>Stephen Hansen
>homebrewer, archivist
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
 >Stephen E. Hansen - hansen at sierra.Stanford.EDU  | "The church is near,
 >Electrical Engineering Computer Facility        |  but the road is icy.
 >Applied Electronics Laboratory, Room 218        |  The bar is far away,
 >Stanford University, Stanford, CA 94305-4055    |  but I will walk carefully."
 >Phone: +1-415-723-1058   Fax: +1-415-725-7298   |      -- Russian Proverb
>------------------------------------------------------------------------


- -----AND-------------------------

In HBD#1057 ogilvie at ficc.ferranti.com (jim ogilvie) asks....

>Subject: Please help me convert mg/L to ppm

>I recently reqested and recevied a report from my water suplier
>listing all the junk in my tap water. 
	>SNIP<
>can I read that as being pretty close to parts-per-million?
	>SNIPSNIP<

YUP...

mg/l and ppm are _exactly_ the same.

Also... 1 ppm = 0.058 grains/US gallon  or  1 grain/US gallon = 17.1 ppm

>Jim          (ogilvie at ferranti.com)


While we are back to nasties in water, I looked up some MCL (Maximum
Contaminant Level) for some of the goobers found in tap water that may
apply to us.  These numbers are per the 1986 version of the EPA's Safe
Drinking Water Act...so they must be "safe"...right ;)

They are listed in ppm or mg/l...take your pick.

Pollutant	MCL
- ---------	---
Arsenic		0.05
Chloride	250.0
Copper		1.0
Cyanide		0.01
Fluoride	1.4 to 2.4
Iron		0.3 (>0.3 makes water red)
Lead		0.05
Manganese	0.05 (>0.1 forms brown-black stain)
Mercury		0.002
Nitrate		45.0
Sulfate (SO4)	250.0 (>500 has a laxative effect)

The list gets pretty extensive..these were the ones that looked usefull.
If you want others, post or send me email...

Most people cannot tolerate drinking water that exceeds 300 ppm carbonate,
or 1500 ppm chloride, or 2000 ppm sulphate.

NOTE: According to my reference "Exposures over safe limits can result 
in a variety of serious health problems ranging from liver and kidney damage,
high cancer risk, nervous system disorders, skin discoloration, hypertension,
an a variety of others."

Not to scare anyone away from brewing...i just get dangerous with a reference
book sometimes...sorry


Todd
unix systems scapegoat
Downers Grove, IL.

todd at rtsg.mot.com

  /--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
 / -rwxr-xr-x   1 todd      employer  69   Feb 10 1958  OPINIONS              \
 \ lrwxrwxrwx   1 employer  other     9    Jan 01 1970  OPINIONS -> /dev/null /
  \--------------------------------------------------------------------------/


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Date: Tue, 19 Jan 93 11:55:09 +0100
From: steve_T at fleurie.compass.fr (Steven Tollefsrud)
Subject: 1) right yeast for Barleywine? 2) Priming with malt extract?


I plan to make a Barleywine soon. I have two recipes. One calls for
champagne yeast because it will survive above the levels of alcohol
which would normally kill off regular lager or ale yeasts. The second
recipe calls for lager yeast?! I am afraid of compromising the taste
of the "beer" by using champagne yeast (is this a valid concern?).
On the other hand, I don't want to have a sickly sweet, half fermented
Barleywine because the alcohol level killed the lager yeast.

Has anybody out there got any experience with this? Is the recipe calling
for lager yeast incorrect? What about fermenting it with the lager yeast
and then adding the champagne yeast when the lager yeast dies? (a sort of
compromise intending to benefit from the qualities of both)


I recently experimented with adding refined table sugar to a lager batch
(approximately 70% malt extract to 30% sugar) to see how it would affect
the taste. The result was lighter bodied, well carbonated, with an
unpleasant cidery aftertaste. Now I want to avoid using sugar at all,
even for priming. In order to make a completely sugar free, all malt
lager, I would like to try priming with dried malt extract. Should I
use the same quantites of malt extract as I would with sugar? One homebrew
guide I have says to prime until the specific gravity increases by .005.
Won't it be necessary to use more dried malt extract because of the
unfermentables?

Steve Tollefsrud
Valbonne, France

e-mail: steve_T at fleurie.compass.fr

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Date: Tue, 19 Jan 93 09:53:33 EST
From: "Spencer W. Thomas" <Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu>
Subject: BEST iodine (idophor?)

A teaspoon (t) is 5ml.  A tablespoon (T) is 15ml. A fluid oz is 2T or
6t or 30ml. (Well, 29.6, actually.)

=S

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Date:    Tue, 19 Jan 93 09:41 CST
From: XLPSJGN%LUCCPUA.bitnet at UICVM.UIC.EDU
Subject: stuck fermentation?

Dear Brewers,

I have a quick question.  I had such success with Papezian's recipe
for Propensity Lager last year that I decided last week to give it
another go.  It is delicious stuff!!  However, I think I might be
experiencing my first stuck fermentation.  I'm storing the brew in
my pantry at about 47F constant (I leave the window cracked open
and the door shut to help cool the room).  I'm using a blow-
off method (again), but this time I'm using liquid yeast.  I've used
liquid ale yeasts before and have had good beers, but this is my
first try with liquid lagers.

I used Wyeast liquid lager (pilsen), and all was going gang-
busters within 12 hrs of bursting the inside package of the yeast packet
It had swelled almost to the point of bursting itself.  I made a
batch of starter that night, and watched as that too grew vigorously -
the smell was (for brewers anyway) heavenly!  Then, after brewing the
wort according to the recipe, I cooled the brew and pitched the yeast.

That was almost two days ago, and as yet, there seems to be no action
through the blow off tube...Not even a kreusen yet.  However, the beer
does seem to be clearing (is it settling too soon?).

So my question(s) is/are: is it too soon to tell if the brew is stuck?
And, if it is stuck, how can I nudge it along? Could the temperature
be responsible for the (apparently) slow start?  If so, should I try
closing the window, opening the door, and warming the pantry/
lagering closet up a bit??

Thanx, and Cheers!

John
(ps to Jcusick at luccpua - lost yer number, but saved you a Christmas
Ale!! 'Twas the season - 'tiz the last (brew, anyway).  Call me or
"E" me.  Will try you  at  Micro soon. - jn

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Date: Tue, 19 Jan 93 10:37 EST
From: "C. Lyons / Raytheon-ADC / Andover, MA" <LYONS at adc3.adc.ray.com>
Subject: Hop question?

Some time back I saw a similar question, but never read a reply.

When adding boiling hops, does the selection of the type of 
hop (Kent Goldings, Northern Brewer, Cascade, etc.) make any 
difference on the final taste profile?  I am wondering if I only 
need to be concerned about getting the number of IBUs correct, or if it 
is significant to get the correct number of IBUs from a particular hop when 
attempting to duplicate recipes/styles.  I understand that hops 
added for flavor and aroma do give the beer destinct characteristics,
but I am curious if anyone believes that the boiling hops do?


                                        Christopher Lyons
                                        LYONS at ADC3.ADC.RAY.COM

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Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1993 11:39:55 EST
From: Jay Hersh <hersh at expo.lcs.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Phil's Phalse Bottom


>When used this way this false bottom works reasonably well and is a cheap way 
>to quickly convert an Igloo-type cooler to an insulated lauter-tun (though 
>there are other even cheaper ways of doing this that aren't much more work).  I 
>think that it certainly superior to the  grain bag/vegetable steamer combo 
>commonly used by many homebrewers.

Well Steve I have to take exception here. My grain bag and copper coil works
wonderfully. In fact I get excvellent flow, never a stuck sparge, and it worked
great the first time. While I don't doubt that you have now gotten your Phil's
to work well I don't think your claims of "superior"ity are founded....

Maybe we need to have a Mash Off to duke this out :-)...


	JaH

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Date: Tue, 19 Jan 93 12:41 EST
From: hjl at gummo.att.com
Subject: Teaspoons to milliliters

3t=T

2T=one ounce liquid measure

32 ounces=1 quart

1 quart x 1.06=1 liter

1 liter/1000=milliliters

So 1 teaspoon = 4.91 ml. (most sources use 5)

Hank Luer

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Date:         19 Jan 93 12:45:20 EDT
From: "Robert Haddad" <RHADDAD at bss1.umd.edu>
Subject:      Re: Natural Keg Carbonation: Haddad Replies 

On Monday Jan 18, Bruce Mueller wrote:

> In digest #1003, Robert Haddad said
> 1/2 cup of corn sugar gave him about 25 psi at serving time.  Unless
> he kegs much differently than I do, there would be very little
> headspace in the keg...
> ... I'm very satisfied with Robert's empirical evidence.

Then, after second thought, Bruce adds:

> In a 5 gal. container, assuming all the CO2 dissolves, 1/2
> cup yields 16 psi and 3/4 cup only 24 psi.  Well, my fear was
> unfounded regarding this higher priming level.  However, I bet the
> beer would initially gush pretty good with the latter pressure
> behind it.

> Robert Haddad overestimated his pressure by about 55% way back in
> HBD#1003.

Well, Bruce, I must say that quoting me in such a scientific exchange
did lots for my ego, even to show that I may have goofed, and, I hope,
this will be taken into consideration when my tenure review takes
place... :)

However, I stand by my original reading of about 25lbs of CO2 because
something was omitted in the midst of all these numbers, namely that
I pumped some 10lbs of CO2 in the keg at priming time to ensure an
adequate seal (which, according to your numbers would make sense,
16lbs with 1/2 cup of glucose, plus some 10lbs for good seal)

Anyway, on another note, perhaps you or someone else on the line can
explain to me why my "Pilsner Urquell" (Cats Meow2, Don McDaniel),
which has been at 50 deg for 70 days, still registers a gravity of
about 1.020 (down from 1.050). Does this qualify as stuck
fermentation? Should I keg as is, with no priming, and hope that
fermentation will continue during lagering? What if I want to bottle
some (I have 20 gals of the stuff!).

Thanks,

Robert Haddad

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Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1993 12:51:00 +0000 
From: "Bill (W.R.) Crick" <heybc at bnr.ca>
Subject: Windsor, Nottingham Ale yeasts 

I recently tried both Windsor, and Nottingham Dry Ale yeasts
made, or marketted by Leuve in Canada.

Nottingham: Pitch from a distance;-) Very fast to create a krausen
            and needed blowoff tube 6 hours after pitching
            hydrated yeast. Quick fermentation at 62F

Windsor: Not a quick as the Nottingham.
         FG ENDED UP 1.020!!! NO reason for this other than the
         yeast?
         A friend mentioned he had a very different recipe than
         mine end at1.020 as well using this yeast.
- ----->?  Has anyone else noticed this about this yeast?
         Definite bannana smell at racking.

Bill Crick  -> Brewius, Ergo Sum!

Disclaimer: These are my opinion, not those of either BNR, ot NT.


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Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1993 11:41:47 -0800 (PST)
From: Peter Maxwell <peterm at aoraki.dtc.hp.com>
Subject: priming sugar and head retention

I've been having difficulty in getting a good head on my beers.  I can
generate a reasonable one by pouring "forcefully" but this tends to make the
rest of the glass somewhat flat.  Is the standard 3/4 cup supposed to be able
to generate a good head and also preserve good carbonation in what remains?

One 3 gallon batch I made I inadvertently put in 3/4 cup which translates to
1.25 cups for 5 gallons.  That batch has PLENTY of head- too much, but it gave
me the idea of increasing priming.  What are thoughts about increasing priming
to around 1 cup?  This should generate plenty of CO2 for head forming, but is
this heresy?


	Peter

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Date: Tue, 19 Jan 93 09:50 CST
From: arf at ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Brews Paper, Sparging

 
 Date: Thu, 14 Jan 93 10:06:09 EST
 From: Ulick Stafford <ulick at bernini.helios.nd.edu>
 
 >Anyone seen a paper calle The Brews Paper?
 
 Yes.  It's great fun to read.  Sort of like Rush Limbau on home brewing.
 
 I loved his interview with Clinton....
 
 What are your plans for personal brewing?
 
     I'd like to try something with flowers.
 
 Something like dandelion wine?
 
     No.  Genifer.  She's a great little bottle washer
 
 >From: korz at iepubj.att.com
 
 >At least two brewer's have suggested using very hot boiling or
 almost boiling water for sparging.
 
 Just for the record, and to clarify MY current view, I suggest using 
 whaterver temperature it takes to get the proper (see below) temp in the 
 grain bed.
 
 >  Could it be that we don't want the grain bed during the sparge to
    be *AT* 170F, rather we want the *sparge water* to be at 170F and
    we should let the grain bed (in an insulated tun) settle at whatever
    temperature it wants?  Can someone who has "Brewing and Malting
    Science" please look this up?  Darryl, what sparge temp is used for
    Pilsner Urquell?
 
 >Comments?
 
 Excellent food for thought.  My guess is that the number is a "momily" based 
 on some particular system that has since been chipped in stone and followed 
 blindly.
 
 What is "proper" for a commercial sized batch is not likely to be the same 
 for a ten gallon kettle and certainly not the same for an insulated vessel.
 
 We need a number for the actual mash, based on chemestry and how we get there 
 is our own responsiblity.   Perhpas we can even put an end to the flame fests 
 everytime someone uses boil and sparge in the same sentence.
 
 Just as an aside, I make my sparge water as I use it in a small boiler, fed 
 directly from the tap.  It runs out of the boiler, and falls into the lauter 
 tun.  The temperature loss in my system is a hidden blessing because it 
 allows me to boil off the chlorine at a higher temp.
 
 >From: arthur at chiba.esd.sgi.com (Arthur Evans)
 
 > in one of the Zymurgy special issues (I think it's the "gadgets" issue)
 has instructions for building a "mini-jockey-box."
 
 Just a point of caution on "jockey boxes".  First of all, they probably are 
 more efficient than a cold plate for continuous use because of the amount of 
 beer in the tubing.  However, for the occasional glass, all that beer in the 
 the copper tubing, is beer you probably do not want to drink if it has sat 
 there for a day or more.  You will have to dump a glass or two to flush the 
 system and that simply would not do.
 
 The cold plate has very thin and much less tubing along with a good aluminum 
 heat sink to increase the efficiency.  The one I have only holds an ounce or 
 so of beer and the tubing is stainless.  It is much better suited for casual 
 and occasional use.
 
 js
 
If I posted this already, file it under too much aluminum....
jjs
~.

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Date: Tue, 19 Jan 93 16:54:16 EST
From: dipalma at banshee.sw.stratus.com (James Dipalma)
Subject: RE: decoction mashing


Hi All,

  In HBD #1058, C.V.Copas writes:

 ...Regarding the
problem of extracting unconverted starch during sparging, I am wondering how
significant this is in practice. When one considers that the brew will ferment
for 1-2 weeks, then condition for at least another 3 weeks, it is worth
considering how much starch will actually remain in suspension by the time of
serving. My gut feel is that protein and glucan hazes are much more enduring.

  IMHO, anytime starch makes it into the wort, either through incomplete
conversion or extraction during sparging, it's a significant problem.
It's not so much the aesthetics of the haze itself, but that beers with a
starch haze taste slightly infected.  I confess to brewing a couple of
beers that had this problem while transitioning to all grain brewing,
and the off-flavor got worse over time, not better.  I've since tasted
other brewer's beers that had this problem, same slightly infected taste.
It seems to be a common problem among beginning grain brewers who are
trying to learn to mash and sparge properly.
  In a typical scenario, a brewer will pitch a large quantity of yeast,
which multiplies and quickly metabolizes sugars in the wort, preventing
any bacteria that is present from getting established and causing flavor
problems.  Is it possible that the presence of starch in the wort provides
a growth medium for bacteria that would otherwise have none?  I have no
background in microbiology, so I'm not qualified to answer that question
definitively.  Perhaps others who are would care to comment?


                                   Cheers,
                                     Jim

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Date: 19 Jan 1993 16:39:49 -0500
From: "Daniel F McConnell" <Daniel.F.McConnell at med.umich.edu>
Subject: 100% munich malt

                       Subject:                               Time:4:32 PM
  OFFICE MEMO          100% munich malt                       Date:1/19/93
Regarding the 100% munich malt question:

A friend of mine (Jeff Renner-used with permission) recently made a 100% munich
malt brew for a male-bonding-TV-football-saturday.  Ohio State vs Michigan.  It
was made intentionally low in gravity (but not in flavor) so they could drink
it all afternoon.  The target beer was a Munich style dark beer.  There were no
problems in the mashing or conversion, perhaps because this was only 10L malt
and plenty of enzymes were available.

For 7.5 gal:
10 lb Ireks Munich malt (10L)
mash in with 8 qts H2O at 65C to rest at 55C--30 min
raise with 3 qts boiling H2O and heating to 67C--85 min
remove thinnest third, boil and add back to rest at 75C--10 min
sparge to collect 8 gal
boil 90 min
1st Hop addition-42 gr (3.8%) Hallertauer pellets-90 min
2nd hop addition-10 gr (3.8%) Hallertauer pellets-20 min
3rd hop addition-10 gr (3.8%) Hallertauer pellets-0 min
Ferment with Bavarian Lager yeast at 60F--14 days
2ndary at 33F-- 22 days 
OG=1.040  TG=1.012

This turned out to be very good, with nice, light malty sweetness, but
certainly NOT the *Munich* style as was expected.  I'm sorry I missed the
party, but at least some was left over in the keg.

DanMcC




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Date: Tue, 19 Jan 93 15:43:37 PST
From: Ted Barber <tbarber at ampex.com>
Subject: History of "33" in brewing?


Howdy,

While designing the label for our latest and gratest Alt Beer my friend and
I got into a twist about the requirement for a "33" somewhere on the bottle.

Where did the "33" come from and why is it used throughout the world on beer
labels.  As examples:  33 Export of France, Rolling Rock of the U.S., and
Bom d bom of Viet Nam.  One suggesting was that they all shared a common
recipes.  Any brew historians out there with the "real" story of the "33".

Thanks,

Ted Barber
TBARBER at Ampex.Com

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Date: Tue, 19 Jan 93 19:25:31 EST
From: fawcett%iron at cs.umass.edu
Subject: Yeast nutrient


This is probably a FAQ, but what is in yeast nutrient?  I bought some of it a
few months ago for a stuck fermentation.  The bottle says FERMAX but doesn't
list the ingredient(s).  Is this an enzyme?  Papazian has a short section on
yeast nutrients but doesn't say what they are.

 -Tom

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Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1993 17:05:19 -0800
From: Richard Stueven <gak at wrs.com>
Subject: Re: Trivia

Found this in the 12/15/88 HBD:

>Date: Thu, 15 Dec 88 12:17:48 MST
>From: hpfcla!hpcea!hplabs!utah-cs!iwtsf!korz (Algis R Korzonas +1 312 979 8583)
>Full-Name: 
>Subject: Trivia
>
>Trivia question:
>
>Which Beatles song refers to homebrewing?

I searched and searched, but never found the answer!

Well?

have fun
gak

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Date: Wed, 20 Jan 93 01:00 GMT
From: "Stephen G. Pimentel" <0004876702 at mcimail.com>
Subject: Hops & Hepatitis; Polenta

I just read an article that said that research (they cited 
the Annals of Internal Medicine) seemed to suggest that 
various herbs (valerian, asafetida, HOPS, chaparral leaf, 
gentian, etc.) were implicated in causing hepatitis. They 
specifically mention that germander seemed to have 
caused the ill in several people who were taking it for 
weight loss.  Germander is sometimes used to flavor 
beer.  Should we be worried? Is our consumption of 
whatever it is that may be in hops too low to matter? Or 
is this just allopathic propaganda?

Also someone a while back posted their recipe for 
polenta.  As I can't access the archive, could that person 
send the recipe to me; I thought I'd snagged it, but I 
didn't.


spimentel at mcimail.com


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Date: Tue, 19 Jan 93 14:54:08 MST
From: Brian.Smithey at Central.Sun.COM (Brian Smithey)
Subject: using steel cut oats in stout

Hi,

I'm getting ready to do an oatmeal stout, and I'm planning on using
steel cut oats rather than rolled ("Quaker") oats.  I was planning
on cooking the oats before adding them to the mash, figuring that
the cut oats would require gelatinization prior to mashing.

However, when looking through "Cat's Meow" for inspiration (and to
take another look at Jay Hersh's great steel cut oat experiments),
I didn't find any mention of cut oats being cooked, but rather
recipes that implied adding the raw cut oats directly to the mash.

I'd like to hear any experiences with using steel cut oats in an
all-grain brew -- whether you cooked or not, how much you used,
how the beer turned out, etc.

Thanks,
Brian
- --
Brian Smithey / Sun Microsystems / Colorado Springs, CO
smithey at rmtc.Central.Sun.COM

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Date: Tue, 19 Jan 93 19:22:23 PST
From: Mike Leclere <msl at orca.rose.hp.com>
Subject: Query

Stephen,

I received the following kind reply to my query on HBD about the gif
files of beer logos, etc...

- ---------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 93 16:37:57 -0800
From: "Stephen E. Hansen" <hansen at Sierra.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Changes at the Archives

Over the holidays I spent some time reorganizing the Homebrew Archives
at Sierra.Stanford.EDU.  The first change that you will notice is that

 ...

Those of you who don't follow the rec.crafts.brewing newsgroup might
be interested in the contents of the "images" directory.  It currently
has about 70 files containing pictures of various beer labels and
coasters in GIF and JPEG format.

Stephen Hansen
homebrewer, archivist

- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Unfortunately, I cannot seem to access them via the listserver.  Am I doing
something wrong?  I have tried e-mail of the following line:

index /pub/homebrew/images

I wanted to get at listing of what was there, but no luck.  All I get back
is the main index listing.  Any suggestions?

Mike

PS:  Sorry to take your time on this.  If this is out of order, please let
me know.

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Date: Tue, 19 Jan 93 23:57:32 -0500
From: cook at uars.DNET.NASA.GOV (Chris Cook, NMOS Quality Engineer - (301)386-7807)
Subject: Questions about mashing, sweet finishes, clean burners, etc.

All right, I have a few quick questions.  Or maybe not so quick...

  1) In Greg Noonan's book "Brewing Lager Beer," he describes decoction
     mashes using phrases like "...draw off the thickest third of the
     mash..."  Look, after all the stirring he describes, isn't the mash
     pretty uniform?  Could someone who does this describe what the
     "thickest" or thinnest part is, and how you draw it off?

  2) After tasting Thomas Hardy's Ale, Royal Oak Pale Ale, Samuel Smith's
     Oatmeal Stout and others, I've fallen in love with these beer's sweet
     finishes.  How do they do it?  Is this simply a result of mashing
     temperatures, or are we talking artifice here?  Thinking minds want to
     know.

  3) I have one of those Mount Saint Helens jet propane burners.  It roars,
     jets, flames up high and almost completely contaminates every pot and
     pot resting place I own every time I brew.  Does anyone have any tricks
     for making the thing burn cleaner so that it makes less soot?  I
     remember the thread a few months ago about containing the flame around
     the pot, but I'm talking about avoiding the soot factor.  I know the
     signs of an inefficient burn when I see them.

  4) Oh, and finally, is everyone being honest with their grain extraction
     rates?  I realize the pressure to talk up your extraction points and
     all, but are we talking reality here?

That's enough for now.  I'll add more information as I learn.

Chris Cook
cook at uars.dnet.nasa.gov

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Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1993 02:20 EST
From: Carlo Fusco <G1400023 at NICKEL.LAURENTIAN.CA>
Subject: compiling new list

Ok, I'm getting tired of hearing the question about where to find a good
brew in city X. I have decided to be the coordinator of a list that will
finally tell people where to go in which city. I am hoping to produce
this list so that it is accessable as a FAQ. [who can tell me where to
send the final list for achiving to.I would also like to update my list 
about brewing online but I don't know where to send this list to, or
how to archive it....any ideas?]

The way I see it, this list will be a update to the "publist" found in
HBD. If you wish to submit entries into this list please send them to
me. I would like the entries to be in the following format:

Country, City
Name of establishment, what is it? [eg. restraunt, brewpub, bar, etc]
street address and phone number, if possible.
	why should I go there?--eg. it has 1 million beers on tap
	[keep this to 4 lines or less]

I think this should take several weeks to compile but I a willing to do
the work.[In other words, don't look for the list for at least a month]
Remeber, tell your friends...afterall we all have a different idea of 
how good a place is.

Send submissions to G1400023 at nickel.laurentian.ca

And a special request to all those Canadians out there, send your entries
in so I know where to go when I visit your hometown...Heck, I may even 
call you to join me.

Carlo Fusco
g1400023 at nickel.laurentian.ca

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1059, 01/20/93