FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  echo about beer in FidoNet (Victor Reijs)
  Mixing beers (7226 Lacroix)
  re: HBU-IBU table in HBD1066 (Bill Szymczak)
  recirculating runoff (JOHN - GTE - (617) 466-3681)
  Mixing beers (Tom Dimock)
  Re: Brew pots (Doug Behm)
  Re: Cider Sweetening... (Daniel Roman)
  Where to get good hops? (John Callaway)
  Update in solvents in homebrew (Scott Bickham)
  Cornellius kegs (John Adams)
  Irish Red Ale (Guy McConnell)
  all-grain snobs (Rob Bradley)
  pH electrode, copper pot, rye (Ulick Stafford)
  NDMAs (the last little bit) ("Donald G. Scheidt")
  The *very* end of NDMAs, really! ("Donald G. Scheidt")
  Adelscott ("Donald G. Scheidt")
  Grain Weevels (Randall Holt)
  malted rye source (Brian Bliss)
  Re: BUGS! (Dan Strahs)
  Re: Bad Luck With Spices (David Van Iderstine)
  brewpots (Russell L. Oertel)
  Hypercard program (SRIRACHA)
  H-BAIRD MALTS (Mark Simpson)
  Drew's Brew Wheat Beer (atl)
  A marvelous accident (Andy Carvin)
  SUBSCRIPTION (KING_MAR)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Feb 93 12:27:45 +0100
From: Victor Reijs <Victor.Reijs at SURFnet.nl>
Subject: echo about beer in FidoNet


Hello all of you,


I seems there is an echo-area in FidoNet about Zymurgy? Does somebody know the
real name of that echo? I would like to get that echo in Europe, or did others
already try that and they did not succeed?

Hope somebody can help me.


All the best,


Victor


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Date: Tue, 2 Feb 93 05:24:22 MST
From: stevel at chs.com (7226 Lacroix)
Subject: Mixing beers

When I lived in Seattle (ahhhhh, the Great Northwest) there was a place...
T.S. McHugh's where they mixed something called a Blacksmith...a Guinness
mixed with Old Nick Barleywine...it was superb!  Just across the street at
Jake O'Shanassey's (may the Irish forgive me for any wrong spelling) they
made something by floating Guinness on top of a Harp....again...heaven..
At home, I had a batch of Cherry Ale come up a little short on the 
carbonation side, so I mixed more than a few bottles with a strong bitter,
and while not particularly memorable, it did make that flat beer more than
drinkable!  Bob, sounds like you're relaxin' just fine to me... ;-)
	Steve Lacroix
	Primitive Brewing

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Date: Tue, 2 Feb 93 08:17:27 EST
From: bszymcz%ulysses at relay.nswc.navy.mil (Bill Szymczak)
Subject: re: HBU-IBU table in HBD1066


In HBD1066 I submitted an HBU-IBU conversion table
but forgot to mention any volume relationships.
That table assumes a 5 gallon batch.
To adjust for a volume of X gallons simply multiply the
numbers in the table by 5/X.  

Bill Szymczak

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Date: Tue, 2 Feb 93 08:09:45 -0500
From: rogers%scsd.dnet at gte.com (JOHN - GTE - (617) 466-3681)
Subject: recirculating runoff

I have been easing myself into all grain brewing. I have done a
few batches with varying amount of grains. I have found that
keeping the temp. constant during mashing is easier than I
expected but that lautering is more of a pain than I expected.

My question: just how important (*really*) is re-circulating the
runoff? I am using a grain bag with a very fine mesh, and it
seems to catch everything of real substance. Also note I am not
concerned with extracting every  molecule of fermentable from the
grain. I would be happy to get 25-27 points per pound, and add an
extra pound or so of grain to reach the  specified OG. 

Thanks for any advice!!

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Date:         Tue, 02 Feb 93 08:26:04 EST
From: Tom Dimock <RGG at CORNELLC.cit.cornell.edu>
Subject:      Mixing beers

Mixing beers has a long history in England, where the Black and Tan,
Light and Dark, or 'arf 'n 'arf are all quite common in pubs.  One of
my fond memories involves drinking with friends from MIT at the
Muddy Charles, a graduate student hangout on campus.  At that time,
they only had Bud on tap :-( , but they did have Guiness in bottles.
Being cheap, but not quite cheap enough to drink Bud straight, I'd
buy a bottle of Guiness, and use half a Guiness per pitcher of Bud
to give the stuff some flavor.  It worked pretty well - it made the
Bud into something you could fool yourself into believing was beer....

A floater of barleywinne on a good pale ale...   Hmmm....

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Date:         Tue, 02 Feb 93 08:04:37 CST
From: Doug Behm <DBEHM at UA1VM.UA.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Brew pots

I have an eight gallon and a five gallon enamel brewing pot. These pots
are enameled canners found at Walmart or other similar stores. I think
I paid about $20 each for them. I had the eight gallon but it was too big for m
y stove , it din't fit over three burners and i burner gave a 'hot spot. The
five gallon fit a little better but is still a little large for a kitchen stove

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Date: Tue, 2 Feb 93 9:22:13 EST
From: roman at tix.timeplex.com (Daniel Roman)
Subject: Re: Cider Sweetening...

Brian F. Brown writes:
 
> Looking for a recipe to sweeten cider which has turned out very dry.
> I want something of the Woodchuck style, but maybe not quite as sweet.
 
The best way I have found to achieve sweet cider is to artificially
carbonate with kegging equipment after using potassium sorbate to kill
off the yeast.  After the yeast are dead you can sweeten to taste.  I
know of no yeast with low enough attenuation to achieve sweetness
anywhere near something like Woodpecker (I have not had Woodchuck).

May I suggest you subscribe to the Cider Digest.  Requests should be
sent to "cider-request@ expo.lcs.mit.edu".
- -- 
_________
Dan Roman  GEnie: D.ROMAN1  Internet: roman at tix.timeplex.com  //
American Homebrewers Association member        Only AMIGA!  \X/

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Date:         Tue, 02 Feb 93 08:46:34 CST
From: John Callaway <OCJOHN%LSUVM.BITNET at ricevm1.rice.edu>
Subject:      Where to get good hops?


Does anyone out there know of a place to get
good, fresh hops by mail order.  The ones I have
been getting lately from my local brew store are not
so good, and I want to try a new place.  THANKS


John Callaway                  ocjohn at lsuvm.bitnet
Dept. of Oceanography
Louisiana State University

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Date: Tue, 2 Feb 93 9:49:55 EST
From: bickham at msc2.msc.cornell.edu (Scott Bickham)
Subject: Update in solvents in homebrew

Last week, I posted (indirectly) some worries about solvent-like
flavors and aromas in my latest brew - a Strong Belgian Ale.  It
was a mash/extract recipe, with about 45 gravity points coming from
the mash and another 35 from a kit that was given to me.  The wort
was pitched onto the Belgian Ale yeast slurry left behind when I
bottled a wit.

When I bottled the strong ale, there was a terrible flavor similar to
turpentine.  But now, after only one week later, this seems to have vanished,
leaving behind lots of banana esters and some spicy phenolics.  The
finish was slighlty bitter, but that should mellow with age and blend
with the esters to create a nice complex balance.  I did notice the
solvent-like aroma when I was washing the bottle, so whatever the culprit
was (maybe the yeast?), it seems to have settled out of the beer's way.

Scott
- -- 
=========================================================================
Scott Bickham                             |
LASSP and Materials Science Center	  |       bickham at msc.cornell.edu
=========================================================================

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Date: Tue, 2 Feb 93 07:59:22 -0700
From: John Adams <j_adams at hpfcjca.sde.hp.com>
Subject: Cornellius kegs

> 
> 1) Try your local software manufacture for secondhand kegs. Places like 
> Coca Cola not only have the 5 gallon Cornellius Kegs that brewers use for 
> their draft beer systems but they also have 10 gallon Stainless Steel Kegs.
> These 10 gallon kegs allready have handles welded onto them so all you need
> to do is cut a hole in the top of it to convert it into a pot. In Adelaide the
> 10 gallon SS kegs sell for $45 secondhand.
>

Working for a software company we RARELY if EVER have unused kegs
laying around.  We usually reuse them for our next release 8^)

I have heard that SOFTDRINK manufacturers are pretty good sources for
cornellius kegs!


John "tongue firmly in cheek" Adams

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Date: Tue, 2 Feb 93 9:23:28 CST
From: gdmcconn at mspe5.b11.ingr.com (Guy McConnell)
Subject: Irish Red Ale

    As a result of my post on using Wyeast #1084 Irish Ale yeast in an Irish
Red Ale, I received several requests for the recipe.  Here 'tis:

	  	     Dana's Smilin' Irish Eyes Red Ale
			         5 Gallons

		6    pounds  Alexander's Pale Malt Extract Syrup
		1    pound   Orange Blossom Honey
		1    pound   ( 4 cups ) Belgian Special B ( 200 L )
		3    ounces  Cascade Hop Pellets
		1    tsp     Irish Moss
		1    pack    Wyeast #1084 Irish Ale

	Place cracked grains in 2 quarts cold water and bring temperature up 
	to 170 degrees.  Steep for 15 minutes and sparge into brewpot.  Add
	malt extract and 1 oz. hops and boil for 45 minutes.  Add Irish moss,
	1 oz. hops, and honey & boil for 15 more minutes.  Remove from heat &
	add remaining 1 oz. hops.  Cool quickly, add to 3 gallons cold water
	in primary fermenter, and pitch yeast.  Rack to secondary after
	vigorous fermentation subsides.  Bottle when fermentation completes.


I bottled this one with gyle I saved before pitching the yeast, my preferred
priming method now.  I did it as a quick and easy way of making a decent Irish
Red Ale and it turned out quite well.  An all-grain version could be done with
2-row malt (I'd use the Belgian), a little carapils, and the special B.  Maybe
a little toasted victory malt would also add a nice "toasty" character.  The
two best commercial examples of this (non?)style IMHO are Boulevard Brewing
Co. (of Kansas City MO.) "Irish Ale" and Birmingham Brewing Co. "Red Mountain
Red Ale".  I know the guy who started the Birmingham Brewing Co. and he gave
me the details of his recipe.  It has 2-row pale malt, Carapils, and Belgian
Special B with "18-20" IBU of hops (he didn't tell me what type but I believe
Cascades are used) and Irish Ale yeast.  After trying either of these, you
will realize just how pale a reflection Killian's is of this all but forgotten
style.  Another victim of the American Mass Brewing monster.

    I was also asked for my blackberry ale recipe which used #1084 yeast:


			 Cat's Claw Blackberry Ale
			         5 Gallons

		6    pounds  Alexander's Pale extract syrup
		1    pound   Orange Blossom Honey
		1    pound   ( 4 cups )Crystal Malt, 10L
		1/4  pound   ( 1 cup ) Victory Malt
		1    ounce   Cascade Pellets ( bittering - 60 mins )
		1/2  ounce   Cascade Pellets ( finishing )
		1    pint    WYeast #1084 Irish Ale Yeast ( recultured )
		8    pounds  Blackberries
		2/3  cup     Orange Blossom Honey ( for priming )

	Place crushed grain in cold water and steep for 45 minutes at 155 
	degrees.  Sparge into brewpot and bring to a boil.  Add extract and 
	bittering hops and boil for 50 minutes.  During the boil, mash berries
	through a strainer to extract the juice.  Add honey and boil for 10 
	more minutes, skimming off any scum that forms.  Remove from heat and 
	pour blackberry juice into the hot wort.  Stir well and allow to steep
	for 15 minutes.  Cool and pour into primary containing 3 gallons cold
	(previously boiled) water.  Pitch yeast and aerate well.  Rack to 
	secondary when vigorous fermentation subsides.  When fermentation 
	completes, make a "hop tea" with the finishing hops.  Cool, add to 
	bottling bucket along with honey priming solution, and bottle.


This brew turned out quite well too with a nice blackberry nose complimented
by a floral note from the Cascade hop tea added at bottling.  Enjoy!

- -- 
Guy McConnell  gdmcconn at mspe5.b11.ingr.com  or  b11!mspe5!gdmcconn
		  "All I need is a pint a day"

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Date: Tue, 2 Feb 93 10:45:54 -0500
From: bradley at adx.adelphi.edu (Rob Bradley)
Subject: all-grain snobs

In HBD 1067, Mark Lundquist:
Subject: Weird beer flavor

>I have some extract ale that is ready to go into bottles, but it tastes
>wrong.  I'd like some help in identifying what the wrong flavor is,
>and how to eliminate it!
>
>....  Well, the weird flavor component in this batch of
>ale is very much like that aftertaste in malt syrup.
>
>Here's the specifics:
>
>Two cans (8 lbs) Alexander's Pale malt extract syrup
>13 AAU (1 oz.) Chinook hops (boil)
>1 oz. Cascade hops (finish)
>W. #1098 (British), recultured from dregs of a
>	    homebrew (1st generation)
>
>O.G. 1.058
>F.G. 1.017
>
>... (Please don't bother with "Well you're using all
>this malt extract, so of course your beer is going to taste like malt
>extract, why don't you switch to all-grain, blah blah blah".  I'm sure
>I'll switch to all-grain someday soon, OK?

Later, McHarry sez:
>
>Subject: World's Worst Brewer
>...
>He is, of course, an extract brewer.

Well, I know McHarry couldn't have planned that, but ouch!  Talk about
rubbing salt into an obvious wound.

I posted about how much fun the CBS "First Thursday" meeting was last
month (I wish I could be in Chicago tomorrow.... >plug< 7:30 at Goose
Island).  The first people I talked to were a couple who brewed a nice
pale ale, and very good holiday ale and stout.  And they were so
apologetic about it being extract brew!

The homebrewing community is generally guilty of snobbishness when it
comes to extract vs. grain.  It is assumed that all extract brewers will
eventually "grow up" and go all-grain.  (When I was younger, it was
assumed that pot leads to harder drugs....)  I'm sure many do, but 
there's no reason they need do, and grain brewers shouldn't try to 
make them feel small.

That said, Mark may not like my advice.  Based on many extract brews,
I think the problem is not extract, but too much extract.  Somewhere
around 1050, I've found that the "extract tang" (Dave Line's words)
becomes evident.  With ~6.5 pound (3kg.) you can make _VERY_GOOD_ beer
like OG 1045-1048, FG 1010-1012.  "Ordinary strength" beer.  Of course,
one reason for homebrewing is to try out stronger styles.  If you want
to do that with extract, consider:

 - partial mashes
 - a pound  of adjunct (brown sugar for a darker ale, brewer's corn
                        syrup for a lighter one)
 - dark malt both to boost the OG a little and to mask other flavors
 - overhop :-)
 - long bottle aging

Alternate versions of Mark's ale:
 -  replace 1.5 lb. Alexander's with a 2 lb. partial mash --
    this can be done with equipment already available in most kitchens.
 -  Replace 2 lb. Alexander's with 1 lb crystal and 1 lb. brown sugar
    (darker, Bass-like ale).
 -  Less popular with "Enemies of BudMilLob" would be to replace 1.5
    lb Alexander's with a brewer's grade corn syrup.  Unlike corn sugar,
    these syrups have a sugar spectrum similar to wort and won't change
    the OG-FG balance.  Of course the beer will be 80-20 malt-corn,
    but (heresy coming!) I'm not sure that's so bad when the amount of
    malt present was already sufficient to make good beer.  And, your
    non-beer-snob friends may find it a kinder, gentler untroduction
    to high gravity brew.

Finally, and more practically for the present batch, Mark.  Just let
it age for a while in the bottle.  You've used good yeast, so it won't
go dry and over-carbonated.  The stuff is gonna be great on Paddy's
Day...just don't put any green food coloring in it!

Cheers,

Rob (bradley at adx.adelphi.edu)
,


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Date: Tue, 2 Feb 93 10:50:41 EST
From: Ulick Stafford <ulick at bernini.helios.nd.edu>
Subject: pH electrode, copper pot, rye

In hbd 1066 Michael Gildner complained that the only suitable pot he 
could find was a 13 gallon copper one for $80.  I drooled.  Wher could
I find one?  I have the cheapo option - an 8gallon enameled canning pot
I bought at a local housewares store called Waccamaw, but I believe 
they can be specially ordered at Ace hardware.  Its cheaper <$30, but
I am fed up of the poor heat transfer of steel, which I would also 
have with stainless, so more information like manufacturers names for
big copper pots would be appreciated.

I bought a chceap pH electrode/meter from Cole-Palmer for $30.  It is
called the Champ and has a resolution of .1 and an accuracy of .5 (mine
reads .1 high).  I am satisfied.  If anyone is interested Cole-Palmer's
number is 1-800-323-4340 and the "Champ pH Tester" catalog number is
G-05941-10.  Usual disclainers.

Carlo Fusco wanted Rye Malt.  It used to be available from the Malt Shop
in Cascade Wisconsin.  I don't have the phone number, but you could try
800-555-1212 for it, or email me tomorrow.

Ulick Stafford

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Date: Tue, 2 Feb 93 7:59:47 PST
From: "Donald G. Scheidt" <dgs1300 at aw101.iasl.ca.boeing.com>
Subject: NDMAs (the last little bit)

In HOMEBREW Digest #1066, Fri 29 January 1993, a few folks kept on flogging
the nitrosamine horse:

>From: lencell at unmc.edu (Lance Encell)
>Subject: nitrosamines in beer
>
>Just to add a little to the talk about nitrosamines, they are found in beer
>and wine, but as has been noted, they are found at very low levels.
>
>They are formed under acidic conditions in our stomachs by the nitrosation
>of ingested secondary amines by nitrite...
>It has been shown that vitamin C prevents nitrosation by competing with the
>amines for the nitrite.  So everyone drink their O.J. so you get your C's.
>
>Finally, nitrosamines require metabolic activation to exert their toxic
>and carcinogenic effects.

Thanks for a little research on the metabolisation of NDMAs.  Since I drink
OJ the way caffeine-heads drink coffee - I drink it by the liter - I'm not
going to worry about the NDMA levels in any of my beer, either store-bought
or home-made.  

>From: arf at ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
>Subject: Nitrosamines, Dough-in
> 
> >From: gjfix at utamat (George J Fix)
> 
> >For the record, the highest NDMA level reported was in Bamberg Rauchbier.
> It contained 5-15 parts per billon, and not 5 ppm as reported in HBD.
> 
> Just testing to see if you read my articles as carefully as
> I read yours :)

Cute, but disingenuous.  Given the orders of magnitude between ppm and ppb,
this is important.  The point is, there are plenty of sources of health
risks, carcinogenic especially, that are far nastier than the few ppb's of
NDMA found in, say, the California & Alaska Street Brewery's Rauchbier.
These days, you stand a bigger risk from the second-hand smoke of a typical
cigarette-filled pub than from any beer you'll drink.

> > This also was the level reported in their malt. The NDMA levels of beer is 
> typically 9-10 times lower than in the malt used.
> 
> >I feel it is perfectly legitimate to raise the possibility that beer with
> higher than normal nitrosamine levels could be a health hazard. Nevertheless,
> there are many aspects of this issue I do not fully understand. For example,
> population data shows that Bamberg has one of the highest rates of beer
> consumption in Germany (no small feat!), yet its cancer and death rates
> are near (and in fact slightly below) the average in Germany...
> 
>                          ...  someone decided that NDMA is carcinogenic and 
> without further evidence, I am not about to waive the condemnation based on 
> one anecdotal experience.  It's a bit like the CDC claiming that mosquitoes 
> can't spread AIDS because a study done in a swampy town in Southern Florida 
> showed no higer incidence than the population at large.

Bamberg is not a "swampy town in Southern Florida".  It's a regional center
with 75,000 inhabitants, with several thousand more in the surrounding small
towns and farm areas.  It is an area known for its smoked beers, as well as
a brown-copper unfiltered and open-fermented-and-aged lager beer made from a
darker, almost Vienna-style malt, kilned at those high temperatures.

If someone "decided" that NDMA is carcinogenic, someone else may do
research and "decide" that the research that lead to the carcinogenic
finding requires a little more study, especially in the light of more
recently gathered statistical evidence.
 
> Personally, I was delighted to find a source of indirect malt that didn't 
> compromise overall quality and taste.  The Belgian malts seem to be the best 
> of all options.  By using them I do not have to care who is right on the NDMA 
> issue.

The best reason to use the Belgian malts is 'cause you like 'em - sorry if
that seems a bit simple-minded, but I'm not planning on being part of this
world forever (statistical evidence suggests that this plan is on target -
we're all gonna die sometime!).  I'm glad I've gotten to sample the flavour
of all kinds of good beer - whether made from good Belgian malts, or from
Bamberger Rauchmalz!

more to follow...
- -- 
        __       |                                        |       __
       /\ \      |  Don Scheidt                           |      /\ \
      /  \ \     |  Boeing IASL, 777 Cab Development      |     /  \ \
     / /\ \ \    |  dgs1300 at aw101.iasl.ca.boeing.com      |    / /\ \ \
    / / /\ \ \   |                                        |   / / /\ \ \
   / / /__\_\ \  |                                        |  / / /__\_\ \
  / / /________\ |                                        | / / /________\
  \/___________/ |                                        | \/___________/

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Date: Tue, 2 Feb 93 8:00:42 PST
From: "Donald G. Scheidt" <dgs1300 at aw101.iasl.ca.boeing.com>
Subject: The *very* end of NDMAs, really!

The NDMA/nitrosamine "debate", cont'd:

> >From: KLIGERMAN at herlvx.rtpnc.epa.gov
> 
>                                                            ... their level 
> in beer is relatively small (ave. 2 ppb) compared to such products as 
> frankfurters (0 - 84 ppb), fish and fish products (4 - 26 ppb), cheeses (2 - 
> 26 ppb), and various meat products (1 to 80 ppb).
> 
> Interesting numbers but so are the ranges.  They all have a low end below the 
> FDA limit for beer.  I don't know what the limits are for the other products 
> but I think we all know that BIG Brother seems as interested in protecting 
> the economy and big business as they are in protecting the consumer.
> 
> Having said that, I guess I have to add, so what?  Only a fool would 
> intentionally choose to eat products with higher levels of carcinogins if 
> given reasonable choices.  In malt we have a choice.  If we let the industry 
> trample our health interests and defend them in doing it, whom have we 
> served?  If we insist on the safest product they can produce, we serve 
> ourselves.

If we believe everything ever said about everything, we resort to drinking
"100 percent distilled water and pure grain alcohol, Mandrake."  As soon as
I hear of statistically valid higher-than-normal normal cancer cases due to
drinking beers from dark, highly kilned, and possibly smoked malts, I'll
think twice about it.

The best and last word has been said:
>From: klm at mscg.com (Kevin L. McBride)
>Subject: Nitrosamine Garbage
>
>We are all going to die some time.  This fact cannot be avoided,
>though it appears that at least one regular contributor to this forum
>believes that he has found the key to eternal life through the beating of dead horses.
>
>If a glass of Smoked Porter is going to kill me then at least I will
>die a happy man.

Amen!

- -- 
        __       |                                        |       __
       /\ \      |  Don Scheidt                           |      /\ \
      /  \ \     |  Boeing IASL, 777 Cab Development      |     /  \ \
     / /\ \ \    |  dgs1300 at aw101.iasl.ca.boeing.com      |    / /\ \ \
    / / /\ \ \   |                                        |   / / /\ \ \
   / / /__\_\ \  |                                        |  / / /__\_\ \
  / / /________\ |                                        | / / /________\
  \/___________/ |                                        | \/___________/

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Date: Tue, 2 Feb 93 8:01:12 PST
From: "Donald G. Scheidt" <dgs1300 at aw101.iasl.ca.boeing.com>
Subject: Adelscott

>From: "Rad Equipment" <rad_equipment at rad-mac1.ucsf.EDU>
>Subject: Pecheur
>
>Subject:  Pecheur                               Time:8:06 AM     Date:1/28/93
>>"Pecheur has previously experimented with a beer
>>containing malt whisky..."
>
>I think this is a mistake. They have brewed a beer using whisky malt called
>Adelscott which (according to Mr. Jackson) "imparts a very light smokiness." I
>have spoken with the US importer about this product in the past only to learn
>that they do not plan to introduce it here. Some problem with the labeling.

"Introduce" it?  During the imported-beer boom of the early eighies, when one
could buy, among others, Rodenbach, Saisons de Silly, and St-Louis beers
in Seattle, bottles of Adelscott appeared on the shelves of several
specialty beer-and-wine-retailers here.  Adelscott was sold in smallish (25
cl) clear-glass bottles, and mentioned the smoked-whisky malt on the label.
The smoky flavour was quite subtle, and over-chilling it masked it
completely; it was also paler in colour than the Bamberger-style Rauchbier.
The closest Bamberg beer to it in flavour is the lightly smoky Greifenklau
Rauchbier, with just a hint of smoke in the background.  Adelscott's not
hard to find in France and Belgium, and I've seen it in the Netherlands also.

As a homebrewing-related aside, the company that imports the only German
Rauchbier (Kaiserdom) available here (Seattle / Pacific Northwest) is
Merchant du Vin, of Seattle.  The founder of MdV is also involved with the
Pike Place Brewery and the Libery Malt Supply homebrewer's shop.  As a
result, Liberty Malt has Bamberger Rauch malt available, imported from
the same company that makes Kaiserdom.

Two Seattle brewpubs have also made Rauchbiers, both top-fermented.  Big
Time Alehouse's Rauchbier was smooth, but had a curiously "slippery" mouth-
feel.  West Seattle's brewpub is up-front in flavour, but also has a very
hoppy astringency to it; they serve it mixed half-and-half with a more
conventional bitter ale, unless you ask for it "straight".
- -- 
        __       |                                        |       __
       /\ \      |  Don Scheidt                           |      /\ \
      /  \ \     |  Boeing IASL, 777 Cab Development      |     /  \ \
     / /\ \ \    |  dgs1300 at aw101.iasl.ca.boeing.com      |    / /\ \ \
    / / /\ \ \   |                                        |   / / /\ \ \
   / / /__\_\ \  |                                        |  / / /__\_\ \
  / / /________\ |                                        | / / /________\
  \/___________/ |                                        | \/___________/

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Date: Tue, 2 Feb 93 11:09:10 -0500
From: rxh6 at po.CWRU.Edu (Randall Holt)
Subject: Grain Weevels



D. Watson tells a sad tale of finding weevely grain and asks for advice.

My father used to store large amounts of wheat and oats in 50-gallon
drums (as part of a two year food supply in preparation for the 
coming nuclear holocaust, a byproduct of the Cuban missile thing).

Anyway, weevels were a problem back then, because irradiated food didn't
exist. His solution was to fill up the grain barrel, then toss in a 
large brick of dry ice, put the lid on loosely, then seal the barrel
with wax to keep airtight after the CO2 had sublimated. Result - bug free
after 10 years.

I guess this technique could be modified to store barley using CO2(g).

A wors of warning, once you find weevels in your pantry, you will _never_
get rid of them, short of completely replacing all dry goods, and then
fumigating.

- --
Randall W. Holt		rxh6 at po.cwru.edu

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Date: Tue, 2 Feb 93 11:04:16 CST
From: bliss at csrd.uiuc.edu (Brian Bliss)
Subject: malted rye source

>Does anyone have any idea where to get malted rye. I want to try brewing
>a beer with a hint of rye wiskey flavour...it also seems like a Canadian
>thing to do ;-)

The Malt Shop
N 3211 Highway S
Cascase WI 53011
1(800)-235-0026


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Date: Wed, 3 Feb 93 12:38:43 -0500
From: strahs%medusa at medusa.bioc.aecom.yu.edu (Dan Strahs)
Subject: Re: BUGS!

>down), and proceeded with the preparations.  With everything ready and
>HB in hand, I grabbed the bag and found it teeming with thousands and
>thousands of tiny black bugs!!

	Sounds like you have grain beetles.  These nasty suckers will eat 
anything: flour, spices, sugar, dried pasta, malted barley 8~)
	Your best bet for eliminating this infection is to clean EVERYTHING.
If you have a second nest of these beetles anywhere near your stored grain,
they'll return.  To prevent entry of these beetles, you need very tight closing
containers.  Ordinary jars apparently don't work too well; my girlfriend had
to throw away most of her spices after the beetles got to then through the 
threads of the lids of the screw-top jars.  Clean everything; you may want to
consult with an exterminator.  Empty every cabinet; examine everything they
could possibly eat.  Don't assume that an iten is uninfested just because it's
closed or unopened.  
	Good luck.... Terminate with extreme prejudice.

							Dan Strahs


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Date: Tue, 2 Feb 93 12:37:24 EST
From: orgasm!davevi at uunet.UU.NET (David Van Iderstine)
Subject: Re: Bad Luck With Spices

I don't know if your trouble with spices has anything to do with an
aluminum brewpot, I do know however that spices can quickly overwhelm
the other flavors in your wort.  It's REAL easy to go overboard,
thinking such small quantities will have no effect. They do! ginger
root is especially strong, I've found.

Typical quantities I use in making an excellent spiced ale are: 1/2
teaspoon (tsp.) powdered nutmeg, 1.5 tsp.  powdered cinnamon, 1/2 tsp.
powdered clove (all 8 minutes from end of boil), 1 tsp. liquid vanilla
(5 minutes from end). Add to this 1 lb. honey, 6 lbs. light extract, a
pound or two of pale-to-crystal grains, hops of your choice, and barring
infection I promise you a winner. This recipe has been called "the best
homebrew I've ever tasted" by anyone who's tasted it. If you get the
same reaction, just give credit where due! :-) 

Dave Van Iderstine


===========================================================================
== Dave Van Iderstine                           Senior Software Engineer ==
==                   Xerox Imaging Systems, Inc.                         ==
== UUCP: uunet!pharlap!orgasm!davevi        davevi at pharlap.com :INTERNET ==
==-----------------------------------------------------------------------==
==          "I haven't got time for instant gratification!"              ==
===========================================================================



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Date: Tue, 2 Feb 93 13:08:34 CST
From: russo at carlos.sps.mot.com (Russell L. Oertel)
Subject: brewpots

I noticed a couple of people mentioning that they need brewpots big
enough for all-grain brewing, and particularly one person who was
concerned about cost.  My solution to this problem is to have two
smaller brewpots.

When I started brewing with extracts, I used a 3.5 gallon SS pot which 
cost about $15.  I figured the easiest thing to do would be to buy
another identical pot, so that's what I did.  3-3.5 gallons is about 
all my electric stove will boil on one burner, anyway, and it's easier
to move around ~25 lbs. of wort than ~50 lbs. if your setup requires 
moving pots around.

Russ Oertel              "Don't worry, Ma - I'll grow up some day... but it 
russo at carlos.sps.mot.com  probably won't be in my lifetime." - Sneaky Pete Rizzo

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Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1993 16:07:08 EST
From: SRIRACHA <radavfs at ube.ub.umd.edu>
Subject: Hypercard program

I seem to remember discussion about a program that would
turn the homebrew digest into a Hypercard stack, allowing
the Mac users among us to sort through the digest at our
leisure...anyone else remmeber this one?  I've been nomail
for a while, so forgive me if this has been beaten to death
recently.
Best,
Volker

Volker Stewart  Langsdale Library, U. of Baltimore radavfs at ube.ub.umd.edu

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Date: Tue, 2 Feb 93 12:14:21 PST
From: Mark Simpson <mark at crash.cts.com>
Subject: H-BAIRD MALTS


Howdy HBDers

1)  Is anyone out there (George Fix?) familiar with the Hugh
Baird malts?  I would like to know what beer they are generally
used in and its characteristics such as points per pound of
extract (theoretical maximum).

2)  How does one go about converting Theoretical Maximum Extract
(ie 82% TME for Klages malt, for example) to points per pound of
extract, excluding the brewhouse efficiency factor?

If this has already been discussed in the past, maybe someone
could point me in the right direction. 

Thanks for the help,


Mark Simpson, The Harmonica Brew-Cat



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Date: Tue, 02 Feb 93 13:53:47 -0800
From: atl at kpc.com
Subject: Drew's Brew Wheat Beer


  I've gotten a number of complements on my extract wheat beer, and a
request for the recipe, so I thought I'd post it here.

2, 4 lb cans Alexanders 60% wheat 40% barley unhopped extract
1 lb 80L crystal malt, crushed
2 oz 5.3 alpha Styrian Golding hop plugs
2 oz 6.1 alpha Cascade whole hops
Wyeast #3056 Bavarian Weissen yeast

3 days before brewing, pop the Wyeast package.
2 days before brewing, pitch Wyeast package contents into a starter made
  from 2 cups water, 1 cup light dry malt extract, and 1 Tettnanger
  pellet.  I use this type of starter on all my batches and pitch
  *after* high krausen.

BrewDay:
1) "Teabag" the Crystal malt, and add to 3 gallons cold water.
2) Bring almost to a boil and remove the "teabag".
3) Add malt extract and bring to a boil.
4) Add Styrian Goldings hops and boil for one hour.
5) Add Cascade hops, return to boil and remove from heat.
6) Steep 15 minutes.
7) Chill with immersion chiller to 80F.
8) pour into clean fermenter and top up to 5.5 gallons total volume
   with cold water.
9) shake up starter, pitch and vigorously stir wort.
10) Ferment ~3 days at ~68F.
11) Rack to secondary.
12) bottle when clear (~1 week) with 1.25 cups light dry malt extract.

This is about he simplest recipe I've ever made, and it tastes great.
Clean and refreshing, and a little on the light bodied side.  I might
lower the lovibond rating of the crystal malt to get a color that more
matches the flavor.  I'll be attempting to recreate this with all grain
this weekend :-)

+------------------------------+ Andrew Lynch, atl at kpc.com
| Congratulations, Bill and Al | Kubota Pacific Computer Inc. Santa Clara, Ca.
| Now, don't screw it up!      | (408)748-6345
+------------------------------+ 

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Date: Tue, 2 Feb 93 16:05:55 CST
From: acarvin at casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Andy Carvin)
Subject: A marvelous accident

Not too long ago I brewed a five-gallon batch of beer that somehow turned
into something it should never have been in the first place. Lemme explain:
In November I brewed a basic batch of John Bull Wheat Beer. Nothing really
exciting -- three cups of sugar, one ounce of hallertau hops. Then, I
decided to add one pound of oats, just to see what would happen. When the
time came for bottling, I realized I forgot to sparge the oats, and they
had swollen so much I was stuck with a gallon of beer, yeast, and wort that
was unseparable. 

I didn't want to throw this stuff away, so I immediately brewed five
gallons of Telfords Nut Brown Ale, added 2 cups of sugar, 3 cups honey, 2
ounces cascade hops, and a quarter cup of maple syrup. Now, I honestly did
not think this would amount to much, and my fears worsened when I noticed
that most of the wheat beer bottles were infected. Praying for the best, I
bottled the nutbrown monstrosity anyway. 

Well, two weeks ago we cracked a few open, and amazingly enough, it tastes
almost exactly like Chimay Premiere, except with 8% alcohol. Just to
confirm my surprise, I brought samples to fellow brewers and beer
afficianados, and they also said the same thing -- Chimay. 

Does anyone out there have any clue what I did right to make such a great
beer?

Feel free to email me directly, or post on the net. Thanks a bunch.
acarvin at casbah.acns.nwu.edu

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Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1993 01:55 EDT
From: KING_MAR%BENTLEY.BITNET at mitvma.mit.edu
Subject: SUBSCRIPTION

PLEASE SEND ME ALL INFORMATION PERTAINING TO HOME BREWING.
THANK YOU, MARTIN KING


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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1069, 02/03/93