FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  All-grain snobs (dbreiden)
  Irish Ales (Ulick Stafford)
  beginners,extract (Russ Gelinas)
  Yeast Culturing Supplies ("Dean Roy" )
  re: HB Shelflife, Irish Bud (Bill Szymczak)
  tap beer mix (Tony Babinec)
  Gold Coast Brewery (CCAC-LAD) <wboyle at PICA.ARMY.MIL>
  more lager questions (MARK TARATOOT)
  chimay yeast/recipe idea (Tony Babinec)
  Re: "Irish Red Ale" (Guy McConnell)
  idophor, rinse/reuse (Bill Moyer)
  RE: lager questions, recirculation (James Dipalma)
  Capital Region Microbrewers Festival (WAYNE HINES)
  All-grain Snobs (Jack Schmidling)
  american beer (BadAssAstronomer)
  Turpentine? ("Mark Rich-mpr8a at acadvm1.uottawa.ca")
  Re: A survey of the readership (Paul Jasper)
  convert cooker to natural gas... (Todd M. Williams)
  Soda Kegs on Tap (TAYLOR)
  homemade wine (connell)
  cold break in or out? (Joe Boardman)
  Killian's Irish Red (Craig Vandeventer)
  subscription confirmation (Joe Palermo)
  Leaf Hops? (SynCAccT)
  All-Wheat Beer (Joseph Nathan Hall)
  Storing crushed grain (Jim Bayer)
   (Douglas James Otto)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 04 Feb 93 08:15:01 -0600
From: dbreiden at dsuvax.dsu.edu
Subject: All-grain snobs

Wasn't it Rob B. who had some remarks about all-grain snobs?  Well said,
Rob!  I recently made the switch to all-grain -- I will admit that I was
always a bit apologetic about being an extract brewer.

My friends (hi guys) had all gone all-grain long before I did, but I
wouldn't call them all-grain snobs.  While I do agree with Rob about
keeping down the snobbishness, I also believe that all brewers should
seriously consider doing the all-grain bit.  I was always encouraged to
take the plunge, and I'm oh so happy I did.  The beer isn't orders of
magnitude better (yet), but the magic of the mash is just TOO cool!

The best situation is for extract brewers to be able to dabble in all grain
without purchasing the equipment (which may or may not cost a fortune).
I personally believe working with an experienced person is the best way
to manage all aspects of brewing though.

Brew-on!

- --Danny

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Date: Thu, 4 Feb 93 09:51:47 EST
From: Ulick Stafford <ulick at bernini.helios.nd.edu>
Subject: Irish Ales

Being Irish I was more than a little surprised to read a posting from
Ireland saying that there was no ale sold there and began to wonder
if I had grown up in and visit a different place.  In hbd 1070 Diane Duane
never mentioned ales in her list of beers and even said there were none
apart from a minor Northern brew.  While ale sales have been falling
to lager (with stout relatively constant) sales of Smithwicks are still
high.  MacArdles is also sold nationwide in bottles and can be got
on draft in local areas.  In Waterford one can even get Phoenix Ale
in large bottles produced at the small Cherry' brewery there.  All
3 of these are sold by Irish ales, which is a group coowned by 
Guinness and Grand Met.  Bass is also produced in Belfast and is
an Irish Ale having slightly different taste than British produced
Bass.  Unfortunately the virtual monopoly Guinness have on the Irish
market, and indeed on malt and hop industries has meant that there are fewer 
small brewers than elsewhere.

Another point I would question was Diane's statement that Irish Bud 
was 2.5 times stronger than American stuff.  While it does taste a
little better (It would be hard not to), it is 4.3% by vol as 
against US Bud which is 4.6%.

Ulick Stafford

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Date:    Thu, 4 Feb 1993 10:03:09 -0500 (EST)
From: R_GELINAS at UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas)
Subject: beginners,extract

  As one who has flooded the HBD with "beginner" questions, I have to
agree with Chuck C. about the tone lately.  I'm now exclusively an
all-grain brewer (it's easy, really), but no less than 2 years ago
I was an "extract brewer without a clue".  So I asked questions, *lots*
of questions, to the HBD.  Some were really clueless; I cringe when I
look through some of the HBD archives.  But, hey, just *asking* the
questions forced me to think about what I was doing, and of course the
quality and depth of the answers has always been startling.  So go
ahead and ask "beginner" questions; they often lead to more advanced topics,
so everyone wins.  For instance..... 

  It was mentioned that extract brew tastes better if it is made from
100% dry extract.  In my e.brewing days, my standard batch was 1 can of
syrup with and equal amount of dry extract, which seemed tastier than
2 cans of syrup.  Perhaps, as was said, the canned syrup does pick up
some of the metallic flavor of the can, and might be (one of) the
source(s) of the extract "tang".  Those box/bags of syrup from BME
always produced a nice (if expensive) brew.....Hmmmm....

Russ G.

BTW, *HIGHLY RECOMMENDED* - Read *all* the HBD archives.  Yes, all.  IMHO,
the HBD archives are perhaps the richest source of homebrewing info
available.

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Date:         4 Feb 93 09:54:12 EST
From: "Dean Roy" <DEAN at alpha.uwindsor.ca>
Subject:      Yeast Culturing Supplies

After paying the price for packs of Wyeast, I am looking at yeast culturing.
The problem I have encountered is in finding a source for supplies.

    What I was hoping to find was a CANADIAN supplier of equipment such as
petri dishes, test tubes, agar, etc. that is willing to sell retail. If
anyone knows of such a supplier, I would appreciate you letting me know.

    Also, American suppliers may be okay too since Windsor is only a half
mile drive from Detroit Mi.


Please reply via private email!
  --------------------------------------------------------------------
  | Dean Roy                        |  Email: DEAN at UWINDSOR.CA       |
  | Systems Programmer              |  Voice: (519)253-4232 Ext 2763 |
  | University of Windsor           |  Fax  : (519)973-7083          |
  --------------------------------------------------------------------


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Date: Thu, 4 Feb 93 10:22:02 EST
From: bszymcz%ulysses at relay.nswc.navy.mil (Bill Szymczak)
Subject: re: HB Shelflife, Irish Bud


In HBD1070 Joel Pointon asks about the shelf life of homebrews

>The cellar is approximately 55 degrees F at this time of year and
>will increase to about 65 by the beginning of summer.  How long
>can one expect to keep each of these before the flavor falls off?

   From personal experience, I've had some of my beers about
one year after brewing and they were still good, with some
being better than when younger.  My beers are kept in similar conditions
as yours, perhaps even 2 or 3 degrees warmer.  Someone told me that
HB will keep up to 5 years, but I've only been brewing myself a little
over a year and a half.  In general, beers with more alcohol, and
more hops should keep longer than weaker brews.

The only danger comes from beers with an
infection or wild yeast which can cause the beer to overcarbonate 
and gush upon opening. (This happened to me with an octoberfest
last year.)  In this case, which will be obvious, I would
recommend drinking these fast (if drinkable) or dumping them
out before any explosions occur.  With my batch the beer was
actually not so bad, but the caps were bulging outward and
half the beer gushed out when I opened a bottle.

Also, Diane Duane writes

>(some places) and Schlitz.  There is better news, though:  Budweiser 
>is brewed here under license by Guinness, and "Uncle Arthur's" version
>is two and a half times stronger than the US article.  Astonishingly, 
>it actually tastes like something....

Does stronger mean greater alcohol content?  If so since
Budweiser is about 4.8% alcohol by volume this would put the
Guinness version at about 12%, stronger than most barleywines.
Maybe we should try to get the Irish Bud imported back to the US.

Bill Szymczak

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Date: Thu, 4 Feb 93 9:39:14 CST
From: tony at spss.com (Tony Babinec)
Subject: tap beer mix

A number of bars in the Chicago area have both Old Foghorn and 
Sierra Nevada Draught Ale on tap.  It wasn't long before the 
half-and-half mixture was christened...

   A Foggy Night in the Sierras

After you've imbibed a few, you know from whence the name comes :-).

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Date:     Thu, 4 Feb 93 11:05:28 EST
From: William Boyle (CCAC-LAD) <wboyle at PICA.ARMY.MIL>
Subject:  Gold Coast Brewery

    Does anybody know anything about the Gold Coast Brewery, such as 
tours, tastings, hours they are open?  Any information would make
me very happy.

					B^2

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Date: 04 Feb 1993 09:07:45 -0600 (MDT)
From: MARK TARATOOT <SLNDW at CC.USU.EDU>
Subject: more lager questions


I have two more questions regarding lagering.  If I choose to
lager my lager in the bottle, should I:

	1. Prime, put in warm (room temp) place for a week to carbonate,
	   put in cold place to finish lagering.
		
		or
	
	2. Prime, put in cold place to finish lagering, put in
	   warm (room temp) place to carbonate.
????

Will the latter give the beer a dicetyl rest after lagering (during
carbonation)?


Second Question:

Concernig pitching extra yeast at bottling.  What if I just "grab up"
some of the yeast sitting on the bottom of my fermenter?  What are the
chances that these yeasts are mutated and what will that do to the
final product?  This particular batch is in a tertiary fermenter (racked
from secondary to get WAY away from yeast/other stuff that floculated out)
so all the "stuff" should be yeast.  This yeast will be mostly dormant,
to be sure, but shouldn't it just hop back to life if more fermentables
are added?

Any comments?

thanks!

 -toot



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Date: Thu, 4 Feb 93 10:20:21 CST
From: tony at spss.com (Tony Babinec)
Subject: chimay yeast/recipe idea

I had success culturing up Chimay yeast by using a large bottle of
Chimay Red.  If you examine the cork closely, you'll see a date
code.  In the Chicago area, the currently available bottles are
dated 10/92, which means that they're reasonably fresh.  Perhaps
you have access to this beer wherever you are.  I would use Chimay
Red rather than Cinq Cent or Grand Reserve because it's the lowest
gravity of the three.

You can drink the beer (!) and pitch the dregs from the bottle into
some starter wort.  The yeast ought to take off relatively quickly,
that is, within a couple days.  If you get no activity or very slow
activity, then discard the starter wort and start over.  Once you
have an active culture, you can taste and smell it to see whether
it's good.  At this point, you have a choice.  You can either brew
a beer and pitch your starter culture, or you can plate out the
yeast, isolate a single cell, build it up, and then brew the beer.
The advantage of the more labor-intensive approach is that you can
isolate the yeast and build it up minus whatever bacteria or other
stuff might be in the dregs, provided you're sanitary in your yeast
culturing.  On the other hand, if you're satisfied from your taste
and smell test that the starter culture is good, you can pitch it
straight into the beer, albeit at some slight risk.

The Chimay yeast is a very important component of making a Chimay
clone.  You might try to get your hands on Wyeast Belgian ale
yeast, though to me it doesn't taste like Chimay's.

For recipe ideas, Rajotte's book has a recipe called St. Humulus. 
I don't have the book with me now.  Note that Chimay Red has a
starting gravity of 1.063, which, while high, is not whopping. 
What an incredible beer!

Here's a recipe suggestion:

Abbey Beer in the style of Chimay

9 pounds U.S. 2-row
1.5 pounds Munich malt
0.5 pounds 60L (or darker) crystal malt
1-2 ounces of chocolate malt
1 pound of honey or dark brown sugar

6 - 7 AAUs bittering hops, a mix of hallertauer and kent goldings,
added at 60 minutes before end of boil.  You are not looking for
high hop bitterness, nor should there be noticeable hop aroma.

Chimay yeast, of course


If you're not an all-grain brewer, then don't use the 2-row or
munich malt but use, say, 7 pounds light, unhopped dry malt extract
instead.  Use crystal and chocolate malt for color.  The honey or
brown sugar will boost the starting gravity as well as contribute
to the flavor and body of the finished beer.  You might try doing
the fermentation at a relatively "warm" temperature, say, 70 to 75
degrees F.  This should lead to more of that Chimay flavor in the
finished beer.  And, don't drink the beer all at once, as its
flavor will evolve in the bottle over time.

Good luck!  

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Date: Thu, 4 Feb 93 10:31:10 CST
From: gdmcconn at mspe5.b11.ingr.com (Guy McConnell)
Subject: Re: "Irish Red Ale"

Diane Duane writes:

> It may amuse (or horrify) some of you to know that at present, there are
> almost NO red ales sold in Ireland.  Killian's, which I've seen while
> visiting in the US, is not sold here.  

    Actually, that was part of the point in my posting.  That is why I used
the terms "(non?)style" and "all but forgotten style" when describing it.  My
history on Killian's is a bit foggy but I seem to recall that they were a
brewery in Ireland (brewing an Irish Red *Ale*) and they experienced financial
difficulty (probably due in part to the preference for stouts and [increasingly]
lagers) in Ireland.  A "kind-hearted" American megabrewery decided to help them
out and gobbled them up.  They moved production of the Irish Red over here and
de-characterized it almost completely, decided it should be a *lager*, and
kept the name.  I don't intend this to be regarded as absolute fact as I admit
that my recollection of the details is a bit rusty, but I think the truth is
pretty close to what I remember.  Anyone with access to the Real Truth, please
feel free to step in.

    This is another case where microbreweries and homebrewers are responsible
for reviving (rescuing?) a beer style, much in the same way as Porter.  The
two examples I mentioned are, I'm sure, not the only ones left (hopefully!)
but they are the two I am familiar with and both are microbrewed ales.  Now,
I love a pint o' Guinness with a passion and my tastes tend toward the darker,
heavier beers but I occasionally like something a little lighter.  A good
Irish Red Ale fits the bill nicely.

- -- 
Guy McConnell  gdmcconn at mspe5.b11.ingr.com  or  b11!mspe5!gdmcconn
		  "All I need is a pint a day"

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Date: Thu, 4 Feb 93 11:04:54 CST
From: billm at scorpio.sps.mot.com (Bill Moyer)
Subject: idophor, rinse/reuse


I've just recently tried using idophor instead of a bleach
solution for sanitizing ( .5oz idophor/gallon water, ~12.5ppm 
free iodine) and have 2 questions.

1) if a rinse is omitted at bottling time, will the brew condition
	properly, or will the yeast be affected? I'm assuming no air
	drying of the bottles.

2) how long will the solution remain stable, and what indication (if
	any exists) can be used to guage the remaining sanitization
	potential of the solution?


thanks,

Bill Moyer

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Date: Thu, 4 Feb 93 12:30:03 EST
From: dipalma at banshee.sw.stratus.com (James Dipalma)
Subject: RE: lager questions, recirculation


Hi All,

   In HBD #1070, Greg Wolodkin writes:

   <description of culturing yeast from Paulaner Hefe-weizen deleted>

>2) What behaviour can I expect from the Paulaner hefe-weizen
>      yeast, assuming that's what I've got?  Anybody ever use it?

   My understanding is that Paulaner uses a non-flocculating lager yeast
to bottle condition the hefe-weizen, it's not the same yeast used to
ferment the beer.  I'm fairly certain a top fermenting strain is used for
that purpose.
   That said, I believe you'd end up with a cloudy beer due to the poor
flocculation, and you would likely not get the clove phenolic/banana ester
character that's desirable in a German weizen.

Disclaimer: I've never actually cultured this yeast and brewed with it, so
the above comments should be taken with whatever quantity of salt seems
appropriate :-). 

****************************************************************

   Also in HBD #1070, Ron Karwoski asks:

	>At what temperature should the wort be when the yeast is pitched
	>and how soon should the whole thing be brought down to lagering
	>temperatures? Do you wait for active signs of fermentation before
	>cooling?

   This seems to be a major issue, I see a lot of posts in this forum
and r.c.b regarding pitching temperatures for lagers, and long lag
times that result from pitching liquid yeast at reduced temperatures.
   According to Miller, pitching at temperatures in excess of 50F results
in increased diacetyl production.  He states that the traditional method
is to pitch when the wort is between 40F-48F.  While this produces 
minimal diacetyl, it does cause longer lag times.  To counteract this
problem, Miller recommends pitching large amounts of yeast, 0.67 to 1.3
ounces of *slurry* per gallon. (Source: Miller's Continental Pilsner)
	IMHO, the one pint to one quart starters that most of us use simply
do not contain enough yeast to initiate lager fermentations quickly.
I've been experiencing the problem of long lag times with lagers, and
confess to pitching at slightly higher temperatures (~60F) in attempting
to reduce lag time.  For my last batch, I used a somewhat larger starter
than usual, and fermentation did start more quickly.  For my next batch
(also a Bock), I'm going to grow the yeast in a one gallon starter, let
it ferment out in order to get a large sediment of hungry yeast, pour
off most of the liquid, and pitch the slurry at 50F.  I'll post the
results.

>Should the starter be cooled?

  The starter should be as close in temperature to the wort as possible,
as temperature shock is detrimental to yeast performance.  I've pitched
starters into *slightly warmer* worts with good results, but I wouldn't
recommend pitching a starter that's at 70F into wort at 50F.

****************************************************************

   Also in HBD #1070, Chris McDermott writes:

FAQ #0001-01:  Recirculation:  What is it, and should I do it?

Recirculation is a practice employed in the lautering of mashed grains where
the turbid sweet wort is collected, as it is runoff, and recirculated through
the grain bed until the runoff becomes clear.

Most sources of homebrewing information will tell you that you should employ
the practice of recirculation to avoid significant amounts of chaff in the
boil.  Chaff in the boil is considered by these sources to lead undesirable
effects in the finished beer including astringancy and cloudiness. (Ref.
Miller, Papazian)

However, others beleive that some amount of chaff in the boil is desireable in
that it helps to coagulate large protien molecules producing a better hot-break
and thus a clearer finished product.  Futhermore, some think that the hot side
areation (HSA), or oxidation, of the sweet wort during recircluation outwieghs
any benifit that may be gained by clearing the wort.  (Ref. Fix)

   For what it's worth, I recirculate about 1 - 1.5 gallons.  The runoff
is still a little cloudy at this point, but it is free of any large chunks
of husk or grain material.  Coincidentally (or perhaps not so), 1.5
gallons is exactly the volume of "dead space" under the false bottom in
my lauter tun. 
   Not to change the subject, but this brings to mind something I've been
wondering about for some time.  Exactly how much of a problem is HSA
during sparging?  The wort will be boiled within an hour, which will drive
off the oxygen, so I guess my question could be phrased "how quickly do
HSA reactions occur?"  Comments, please.

                                   Cheers,
                                     Jim

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Date:         Thu, 04 Feb 93 12:41:12 EST
From: WAYNE HINES <IWLH%SNYCENVM.bitnet at CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject:      Capital Region Microbrewers Festival

Just a note to let you all know:
_______________________________________________________________________________
                           Capital Region
                            MICROBREWERS
                              FESTIVAL
         Friday                             Saturday
         February 26th                      February 27th
         6pm - 10pm                         2pm - 6pm
         at the Lake Ave.                   at the New Scotland Ave.
         Armory, across                     Armory, 130 New Scotland Ave.
         from the Parting                   near Medical Center
         Glass
         Saratoga Springs,NY                Albany, NY

                            Tickets Include
    A commemerative beer glass to sample 40-60 different beers from more
    than 25 microbreweries and brewpubs from across the United States.

             Tickets $15 per person / $18 at door if available

    Tickets available at:

Holmes & Watson : Mahar's           : The Parting Glass   : The Market Grill
450 Broadway    : 1110 Madison Ave. : 40 lake Ave.        : Million Dollar Mile
Troy, NY        : Albany, NY        : Saratoga Springs,NY : Lake George,NY

                      Also available by phone or pickup at
   U.S. Brewing Supply, 815 Madison Ave., Albany, NY 12208 - (518)449-5787

            Proceeds to benefit the Hugh O'Brien and Star Foundations
                           and Saratoga Winter Club
_______________________________________________________________________________
    Insert standard disclaimer here.

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Date: Thu, 4 Feb 93 08:30 CST
From: arf at ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: All-grain Snobs

 
 >From: bradley at adx.adelphi.edu (Rob Bradley)
 >Subject: all-grain snobs
 
 >The homebrewing community is generally guilty of snobbishness when it comes 
 to extract vs. grain. 
                      
 I can't speak for the "community" and you may be right but it is also worth 
 while to put the issue into proper perspective.
 
 Keeping in mind that lots of people stick with extract because they are lazy, 
 paranoid or il-informed and further keeping in mind that the industry, as 
 opposed to the "community" has a vested interest in maintaining the status 
 quo because it would just about dry up without extract sales, it is worth 
 noting that some extract beers are excellent beers, so I am told.   One also 
 presumes that lots of extract brewers use extract because they know how to 
 make said excellent beers.
 
 Having said that, I suggest it is the extract brewers' insecurity, 
 sensitivity and paranoia that creates the image that all-grain brewers are 
 snobs.
 
 >Based on many extract brews, I think the problem is not extract, but too 
 much extract.  Somewhere around 1050, I've found that the "extract tang" 
 (Dave Line's words) becomes evident. 
 
 This is an interesting point and may very well be true and important to those 
 who wish to continue brewing with extracts. 
 
 The reality is that once a brewer makes the switch, invests in the equipment 
 and learns the process AND becomes aware of the economies that accrue, he has 
 little incentive to go back and try to make good extract beer.
 
 If looked at objectively and without emotion, I see nothing wrong with the 
 notion that brewing extract beer is a step in the overall experience of 
 brewing beer.  That is not to put a value judgement on it or to belittle it 
 but simply to put it in proper perspective.  It is by any definition, a 
 shortcut to brewing beer and hence, not the total process.
 
 I have been castigated in the past for comparing it with baking with cake 
 mixes but it is hard not to draw the comparison.  
 
 Perhaps a better analogy is instant versus brewed coffee.  A batch of coffee 
 is made after which it is concentrated down to a convenient extract, to which 
 hot water is added by the consumer and we get coffee again.   Judging by all 
 the TV commercials, ha ha... some of it may actually be good but it is a hell 
 of a way to treat coffee.  They same could be said for a nice batch of wort 
 that gets concentrated.
 
 The bottom line is we brew beer the way we do because it suits our needs and 
 personalities and we brag about what we do because we are human.  There is 
 just no point in trying to impune evil motives into our hobby.
 
 
 js
 
 
 

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Date:    Thu, 4 Feb 1993 12:40:47 -0600 (CST)
From: STOREY at fender.msfc.nasa.gov (BadAssAstronomer)
Subject: american beer


    Hello all

    Sorry to beat a dead horse, but if there was any prior posts about
    "Beer Across America" beer club, I missed them. I was thinking
    about joining this thing, but I'm still a bit hesitant. I was
    wondering if anyone is or has tried this beer club. It sure sounds
    good to someone in the "Southern Beer Wasteland" such as myself.

    Reply to storey at fender.msfc.nasa.gov if you like. Or, post it,
    hell there might be someone else who wants to know :)

    scott

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Date:         Thu, 04 Feb 93 13:43:58 EST
From: "Mark Rich-mpr8a at acadvm1.uottawa.ca" <MPR8A at acadvm1.uottawa.ca>
Subject:      Turpentine?

howdy all,

 This "turpentine tasting beer" thread leads me to ask one simple, but burning
question... How do you know what turpentine tastes like?! Am I missing out on
something?  Hmmm... maybe it would make a good margarita...and it's cheaper tha
n tequila!  ;-)

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Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1993 11:09:12 -0800
From: paul at melody.rational.com (Paul Jasper)
Subject: Re: A survey of the readership

On 3 Feb, 16:15, Chuck Coronella wrote:
> Subject: A survey of the readership
> 
> Are you an all grain brewer or an extract brewer?
> 
>-- End of excerpt from Chuck Coronella

I fit into your definition of "Intermediate", I guess, since I use
extract and often do partial mashes.  However, I've been brewing on
and off for about 13 years.

I really consider myself a "beer connoisseur" - my primary reason for
brewing is to understand the subtleties of flavor and appearance
imparted by variations in the process, and I find HBD a valuable
way to supplement this experience.  Oneday I'll probably get around 
to doing a few all-grain brews, but I don't consider the extra
effort a necessity in achieving my main aims.  As a Englishman, and a
member of CAMRA, I find the discussions on HBD of pressurizing beer 
with CO2 (e.g. in soda kegs) far more disturbing than any distinction 
between extract and all-grain brewing.

P.S. I've sampled Celis White a couple of times now and been very 
impressed.  Anyone know of anywhere in San Francisco selling it that
is more "comfortable" than the Toronado and Midtown (both lower
Haight Street)?

P.P.S. Beer snobs can drink all-grain snobs under the table any day! ;^)

- -- 
- -- Paul Jasper
- -- RATIONAL
- -- Object-Oriented Products
- --

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Date: Thu, 4 Feb 93 13:23:35 CST
From: todd at gold.rtsg.mot.com (Todd M. Williams)
Subject: convert cooker to natural gas...

Greetings All,

	I have a question about cajun cookers.  I have put an addition
on the ol' homestead, and moved the laundry room into the addition.
I now want to turn the old laundry room into my brewery :-{)>

	I have a double sink, a floor drain, and the gas line and vent from 
the dryer.  What I want to do is convert my cajun cooker from a propane
unit into a natural gas unit.  Can I do this??  If so, does anyone
know what is involved?  How much it might cost??  Where to get parts???

Any help would be very welcome!!!

Thanks,

Todd Williams          | Motorola, Inc.
Downers Grove, IL.     | Radio Telephone Systems Group
(708) 971-8692         | Cellular Infrastructure Group
When in Chicago....    | Arlington Heights, IL.
Gimme a call.......    | (708) 632-5691
Stop by for a HB...    | todd at rtsg.mot.com

Moderation, lad....moderation is the key.  8 or 10 is reasonable
refreshment.  After that, and it's likely to degrade into drinking.

  /--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
 / -rwxr-xr-x   1 todd      employer  69   Feb 10 1958  OPINIONS              \
 \ lrwxrwxrwx   1 employer  other     9    Jan 01 1970  OPINIONS -> /dev/null /
  \--------------------------------------------------------------------------/


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Date:    Thu, 4 Feb 1993 14:30:18 -0500 (EST)
From: TAYLOR at sbchm1.chem.sunysb.edu
Subject: Soda Kegs on Tap


Anybody have advice on how (and how long) to keep soda kegs on tap? I have
not tried it for more than about two weeks, and there was a noticable 
change in the beer at the end. I did not take stringent measures against
leaks, so I presume the deterioration was due to air getting into the keg.

I ask because the advice someone gave to shorten the line to the cobra tap
worked out really well.


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Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1993 13:39:44 EST
From: connell at vax.cord.edu
Subject: homemade wine

I have noted with curiosity that while there is discussion of sidelines
to beer brewing that shows up on the digest (cider, mead), there is
almost no discussion of homemade wines.  I have never read about
or experimented with homemade wines, but I have the idea that people
just dump concentrate and water in a carboy and add yeast.  Is wine
making discussed here so seldom because the process is uninterestingly
straightforward or because the results are so inferior to commercial
wines or both?

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Date: Thu, 4 Feb 93 13:41:18 MST
From: Joe Boardman <boardman at amber.Colorado.EDU>
Subject: cold break in or out?



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Date: Thu, 4 Feb 93 16:20:54 -0600
From: cwvandev at hwking.cca.cr.rockwell.com (Craig Vandeventer)
Subject: Killian's Irish Red


Just a clarification on which category Killian's falls into - the last time
I had one(last night) I read the label and it says that it is a "LAGER".

I, too, was suprised as I thought that it was an ale also.

Craig Vandeventer

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Date:        Thu, 04 Feb 93 19:54:15 EST
From: Joe Palermo <S91M%NMUMUS.bitnet at vmd.cso.uiuc.edu>
Subject: subscription confirmation

hello out there. I'm a complete novice homebrewer with only one batch of
beer completed, and frankly it sucked horribly. tasted worse than old
mil --- i never knew that was possible. it was a tyneside brown extract
kit that ended up tasting like yeasty bread water, lacking any sort of
desirable qualities whatsoever. currently working on a batch of rocky
raccooon's honey lager. any suggestions for success or improvements out
there? remember, i'm new at this.

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Date: 5 Feb 93 03:36:28 GMT
From: SynCAccT at slims.attmail.com
Subject: Leaf Hops?

I've been using leaf hops from a west coast distributer for a while
now, satisfied with the results. I purchased some GW Kent Saaz
yesterday and mentioned the West Coaster to him and he scorned
"sweep-ups!". I asked him to elaborate, he said that the hops
purchased from this particular western hop vendor were bale drop
offs, swept into a nice pile and sold to us as fresh from the farm
hops.

I was skeptical, but was told that I could tell that they were "sweep
ups" because they never came in cones, rather they come in loose
petals. I rushed home, looked in one bag and would estimate that 95%
of the hop volume is loose petals as I was told.

I've picked wild hops here in Ontario and they generally fall apart
after kilning, which is what I attribute the "individual hop petal"
phenomenon to, but I would be curious if anyone would have the
"inside scoop" on leaf hops, whole cones vis-a-vis petals.

Incedently, the GW Kent foil wrapped babies are actually perfectly
preserved whole cones, unadulterated and compressed into a plug. Upon
re-expansion in the boil pot they look like they just fell off the
vine.
+----------------------------------+
| Internet: gande at slims.attmail.com|
| Glenn Anderson                   |
| Manager, Telecom. Facilities     |
| Sun Life of Canada               |
+----------------------------------+













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Date: Thu, 4 Feb 93 19:19:09 EDT
From: joseph at joebloe.maple-shade.nj.us (Joseph Nathan Hall)
Subject: All-Wheat Beer


I made the following brew on 20 Dec last year.  It has turned out
to be a *fine* beer, and I recommend it to you.

All-Wheat American Pale Ale

To make 3 US gallons:

6# US Malted Wheat
3oz toasted malted wheat -- in 350F oven until brown/dark tan through

several pounds spent barley for sparging, boiled and drained.

Crack grains.  Add hot (150F) water to make a very stiff mash at 120-125F.
Let rest 1 hr.  Add infusion of boiling water, plus direct heat if
necessary, to bring to 150-152F.  Let rest 30 min.  Add spent
barley, raise to 158F for 10 min, then to 168F for 10 min.

Sparge to collect 4-1/2 gallons or so of wort at 1.035+.

Add 3/4 or 1 oz 5AAU Cascade hops (the original used 1-1/4 oz, but
this is pretty darn hoppy) for 1-1/2 hr boil.  Add 1/2 oz Cascade
when removing kettle from heat, cover, let sit for a few minutes.

Pitch with cultured SNPA yeast or Wyeast 1056.  Volume should be
3-1/2 gallons at about 1.048.  Ferment at 65-70F.  Rack off primary 
after a few days.  When fermentation has dwindled in secondary, 
add 2-3 tbsp Polyclar in boiling water.

The finished product was bottled a little over two weeks ago.  It
is still not fully conditioned, but that will pass.  The aroma is 
unique.  It smells like the crust of a freshly-baked loaf of bread.  
(With notes of hops and the usual Chico yeast bouquet.)  The beer 
is crystal clear, still throws a light to moderate chill haze (less than 
many weizens), and has a fine, fine American Pale flavor.  Even an 
experienced sipper would have difficulty distinguishing it on the
palate from barley beer.  There certainly is no "tang" or overt
fruitiness to it.

I offer this as food for thought to those who wonder whether American
wheat malt has sufficient enzyme activity to convert itself.  For
the rest of us, it's just good beer ....

================O Fortuna, velut Luna, statu variabilis================
uunet!joebloe!joseph   (609) 273-8200 day   joseph%joebloe at uunet.uu.net
2102 Ryan's Run East        Rt 38 & 41             Maple Shade NJ 08052
Copyright 1993 by Joseph N. Hall.   Permission granted to copy and
redistribute freely over USENET and by email.  Commercial use prohibited.

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Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1993 19:08:28 -0600 (CST)
From: brewmstr at ddsw1.mcs.com (Jim Bayer)
Subject: Storing crushed grain



I'm just beginning to mash and I have a question about the practical shelf
life of CRUSHED grain.

Since I'm just beginning to mash, I don't have a grain mill so I order all of
my grain crushed.  If for some reason all of my ingrediants arrive for brewin'
on Saturday but something happens and I can't get to it, how long can I store
the grain and still have fresh grain and how should I store it?

So far someone told me to freeze it, but that sounds wrong to me.

BTW, I'm thinking of weeks for storage, not days.  I know it's best if I don't
have to store the grain, but I like to have my bases covered.

Jim

*****************************************************************
* I'm not w*rrying, I'm having a homebrew!  You should too!     *
*                                                               *
* < Don't let your wife blame anything on your homebrewing >    *
* < Beer always tastes good, hangovers always go away (stolen) >*
* Jim Bayer -> Chicago, IL                                      *
* brewmstr at ddsw1.mcs.com    72416.1044 at compuserve.com           *
*****************************************************************   

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Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1993 14:10:41
From: doug at dottos_plc.win.net (Douglas James Otto)
Subject: 

Please remove me from your mailing list.

Douglas Otto                         Internet: doug at dottos_plc.win.net
(916) 482-2160

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1071, 02/05/93