FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Re: Pitching idea/Sanitizer/Ginger/Correction/Coriander/Dry yeasts (korz)
  Old "Potato Beer" recepie (THOMAS VODACEK)
  Proposal (Repeat) & Review (New) (James Thompson)
  Clear Beer? (Kieran O'Connor)
  "clear beer??..." (Lance Encell)
  Mashout, RIMS (Jack Schmidling)
  Belgium (John Isenhour)
  cooker conversion summary available... (Todd M. Williams)
  Does this qualify as anal...or what????? (7226 Lacroix)
  Glass houses (Geoff Cooper)
  Texas Brewpubs (Tom Leith MIR/ERL 362-6965)
  Diastatic malt flour (Ed Hitchcock)
  Belgium, brown sugar (Russ Gelinas)
  several items (KLIGERMAN)
  continuation (KLIGERMAN)
  Dry Herbing With Coriander (Tom Leith MIR/ERL 362-6965)
  Fastest Homebrewer/dry beer ("Daniel F McConnell")
  New PA Homebrew Supply Shop (Karl F. Bloss)
  Glass Carboys in Dallas Texas - Where are they ? (Roddy McColl)
  Starting that siphon!! (David C Mackensen)
  efficient propane burners (Jim Busch)
  Alcohol Free -- Can It Be Done? (Jim Lando)
  First all grain (Kenneth Haney)
  Millage (Kieran O'Connor)
  Brewcap, Korea Malt, Chinook (Ulick Stafford)
  Commercial beer yeast (Thomas G. Moore)
  INDEX, BS, Ranching (Jack Schmidling)
  siphon starting (SCHREMPP_MIKE/HP4200_42)
  Opaline phytoliths and hop rash (Paul dArmond)
  brown sugar or caramel malt? (donald oconnor)
  BrewCap (Daniel Butler-Ehle)
  sugar in English beers/other thoughts (Tony Babinec)
  hop aroma / real ale (Norm Pyle)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Mar 93 14:18 CST
From: korz at iepubj.att.com
Subject: Re: Pitching idea/Sanitizer/Ginger/Correction/Coriander/Dry yeasts

Chris writes:
>pitch your ale yeast around 60 F... let it ferment at this temp for a
>day or two to discourage bacteria growth and to let the yeast make
>alcohol, the stuff that kills some bacteria... then jack the temp up
>to 65 F to finish...
>
>how valid is this statement?  I mean, it almost sounds like making a
>steam beer etc. but I was just wondering...

Well, it's sort of valid... but you're making ale.  Ale temperatures are
between, say, 60F and say, 75F.  I don't understand why you suggest that
you should first ferment at 60F to "let the yeast make alcohol, the
stuff that kills some bacteria" and then raise the temperature.  It's sort
of backwards from one common way to make lagers: to start the batch at
around 65F and then once the yeast get going, (slowly) lower the temp to
40F or 45F.  If you have good sanitation techniques and are pitching
clean yeast, you can ferment the whole batch at 65F or the whole hatch
at 60F.  The Steam(tm) beer you suggest this might be (it's not) would
be made with lager yeast (Wyeast #2112 might be a good choice ;^) fermented
at the cool end of ale temperatures (say 60-65F).

*****************************

Jack writes:
> No typo.  I also used bleach neat or at least 2:1 when I used it.  It is all 
> relative and I find the long contact times discomforting.  For example, 

I'm no biologist, but I think that contact times are much more important
then concentrations, i.e. 10 min at 200ppm is more lethal to nasties than
1 min at 10000ppm, no?  Biologists?  

Personally, I'm trying to move away from Chlorine as a sanitizer from a
environmental point of view.  Moving to Iodine may not be much better
for the environment either.  I'm looking for a source of Peracetic Acid
(Acetic acid and Hydrogen Peroxide).  The H2O2 quickly becomes water and
acetic acid is plentiful in the world.  Also, a few stray ppm of acetic acid
won't affect my brew as much as a few ppm of Sodium Hypochlorite will.

********************
Dave writes:
>3   oz   sliced ginger root        (peeled for lighter color)
>
>The ginger and hops were boiled in the wort for 45 minutes, then lemon juice 
>was added along with my immersion chiller.  After an additional 10 minute boil,

If you had grated the ginger and added it only for the last 2-3 minutes of
the boil, you would have had a lot of ginger flavor and aroma.  I used 2 ounces
like this and the beer took 4 months to be drinkable -- but very good
eventually.

>1. Did I steam distill off all the good stuff by boiling the ginger too long?  

Yes.

>2. Can I "dry ginger" the batch by adding shredded ginger to my secondary 
>   fermenter?  Any suggestions on how much to try?

Yes, but just to be on the safe side, after you peel the ginger (I did)
but before you grate it (coursely) on your sanitized grater, I suggest
blanching it (dip it in boiling water for 10 seconds).

***********************************
I wrote:
>
>                        BREWER'S OF SOUTH SUBURBIA
>                       (south-suburban Chicagoland)
>                              AHA Sanctioned 
>                      Regional Homebrew Competition

That should be BREWERS OF SOUTH SUBURBIA (no apostrophe).  I don't know
why I've lateley been randomly putting apostrophes in front of trailing s's.

***********************************
Deb writes:
>I brewed a batch of Wit last weekend, which is bubbling nicely in the primary.
>The recipe (Miller) calls for the addition of 1 ounce of coriander seed to the
>secondary.  Do I have to boil the coriander before adding it or will there
>be enough alcohol present to ward off any nasties?  Any help would be very
>much appreciated.  Thanks in advance.

Boiling would definately reduce the aromatics you have available.  I would
just blanch them (dip them in boiling water for 10 seconds) and then
crush them in your sanitized coriander mill (I guess you could use a
sanitized spoon in a sanitized cup if you don't have a true coriander
mill ;^).

***********************

C. Lyons wrotes;
>> yeasts (Coopers, Nottingham and Windsor) to choose from in addition to
>> the yeasts from Wyeast.
>
>I'm very curious what Al's comments were on the different yeasts. 
>Al, if you've had a chance to taste the above beers you've 
>referred to, please comment.  I'd also be very interested in 
>hearing from others who have experimented with various dry 
>yeasts.

I've tasted two batches now made with the Nottingham.  One was split
between bottles and a keg.  It's very clean and only very slightly fruity
in the keg, but tastes/smells nutty (peanutty, like Grant's IPA [sic] or
Grant's Scottish [sic] Ale) in the bottled version.  Although I've only
tried it on two batches, so I don't quite have a handle on this yeast,
but the Nottingham appears to be relatively attenuative (more so than
the Coopers, I'd say).  I haven't had a chance to taste the Windsor --
I only made a 1 gallon batch to try it out and then sort of forgot about
it.  I've been told that the Windsor tends to be even more attenuative
and less flocculent (these two factors are related) than the Nottingham.
The Nottingham batches were fermented at 65F.

The Coopers is quite fruity fermented at 65F and probably the best
dry ale yeast I've ever tried.  It's not phenolic at all and all the
flavor is a very clean fruitiness.

For those of you who made it to the Mainstreet beer tasting, the
American Light Ale and English Pale Ale were made with Coopers and
the Medium-dry Stout was made with Nottingham.  The *DRY* stout was
made with Wyeast #1084 (two years ago!).  How about that -- the dryest
beer of the bunch was made not with dry yeast, but with liquid!

Al.

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Date: Tue, 2 Mar 93 13:16 CST
From: THOMAS VODACEK <87749194 at ucs.uwplatt.edu>
Subject: Old "Potato Beer" recepie


To:  Homebrew Digest
Fm:  87749194 at uwplatt.edu     Thomas Vodacek

A friend gave me an old recepie from his uncle that was for
potato beer.  The idea is a little odd, but I would like to try
it to see the result.
It calls for cutting each potato into just larger than matchstick
size pieces and mashing them seperately from the grain portion
and then filtering with cloth and -then- mixing the worts for the
boil.
I was wondering where the enzimes for the potato starch conversion
come from?  It seems to me that if there were enzimes present they
would be converting the starches right away in the field and in
the store.  Or does the tuber have a way to control the enzimes
in the living tissue?  I would guess that when a potato is stored
a long time and then gets soft before it begins to grow eyes (like
mine usually do) this is like the point in grain malting where the
grain is dried in a kiln.  If this is true:

  1.  Do I have to let all of the potatos get to this stage, or
  2.  Are there enough enzimes in just one or two that can do
      all of the work, or
  3.  Are the potato starches in such a state that they are
      (very) quickly converted by the grain enzimes after mixing, or
  4.  Should I hold the wort at mashimg temps for a time as
      comversion takes place?

The recepie doesn't say to wait for conversion, but then it doesn't
say to test for it either.

Has anyone used potatos in a "beer" that can lend assistance?

Thanks.

Thomas Vodacek


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Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1993 17:11:43 -0800 (PST)
From: James Thompson <sirjames at u.washington.edu>
Subject: Proposal (Repeat) & Review (New)

PROPOSAL

To repeat my proposal in HBD #1087:  if you will e-mail me the
authors names, titles, publishers, and prices of books that are
pub/brewpub/microbrewery guides to your local (state or city), I
will compile them and share the results with this forum.  (You
could also send me oneliners such as "homebrewing is illegal in
Georgia" or "there are no brewpubs in Texas."  (These sad facts we
learned in recent postings.)  The book which is the object of the
following book review is an example of the sort of guidebook I have
in mind.  Is doable, yes/no?


BOOK REVIEW

Becker, Bart.  SEATTLE BREWS:  The Insider's Guide to Neighborhood
Alehouses, Brewpubs, & Bars.  Anchorage & Seattle:  Alaska
Northwest Books, 1992.  176 pp., paperback.  $9.95.  ISBN:  0-
88240-425-3.

Bart Becker has saved me the task of writing such a book -- and
deprived me the fun of the research!  He also did a better job than
I might have done.  Besides listing all the pubs, brewpubs and
microbreweries in the Seattle area, he includes some basic
introductory material on the history of beer, how beer is made, and
beer terminology; he also provides a few recipes for food using
beer as an ingredient, a list of brewpubs & microbreweries in
Oregon, Idaho, Alaska, British Columbia and California, and an
appendix giving information on organizations, publications and
events.  The actual directory listings are given by neighborhood --
which makes it easy for planning pubcrawls!

One feature that makes this guide slightly confusing is that the
directory information itself is divided into two separate
categories, one part listing brewpubs and microbreweries, and
another listing "Alehouses and Bars."   However, the book is well
indexed, so it is easy to find the entry for a place whose name you
already know.  For all your folks heading for Portland for the AHA
convention, you might consider a side trip to Seattle, truly "The
Best Place In America to Drink Beer!"  And if you do so, you will
find this book the perfect companion to make your way around like
a native.

Don't be silly; of course I do not have any monetary interest in
the sale of this book.  I just wish I had written it.  :-)

Jim Thompson/Seattle WA
sirjames at carson.u.washington.edu

Disclaimer:  Our opinions are only our own, aren't they my
Precious?

     Five things these Chestertonian youths revere:
     Beef, noise, the Church, vulgarity and beer.

               -- Anonymous
_______



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Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1993 21:33 EDT
From: Kieran O'Connor <OCONNOR%SNYCORVA.bitnet at CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Clear Beer?

OK.  I couldnt believe it, but, alas, it was on NPR.  Miller will soon
be offering a clear beer!  Anyone got any details?

I suppose it will be helpful to those who wish to avoid the open
container laws, but at the price of drinking Miller :-)


Kieran O'Connor

E-Mail Addresses:

Bitnet: oconnor at snycorva
Internet: oconnor at snycorva.cortland.edu

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Date: Tue, 2 Mar 93 21:51:16 CST
From: lencell at unmc.edu (Lance Encell)
Subject: "clear beer??..."

anybody hear about Miller coming out with a "clear" beer?
Can you believe it?  Sorry if this is old news, and if it isn't, sorry
I don't know more...... or am I?
- ----Lance

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Date: Tue, 2 Mar 93 22:10 CST
From: arf at genesis.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Mashout, RIMS

 
 >From: Ed Hitchcock <ECH at ac.dal.ca>
 > Jack suggested that the mashout also increases the grain
 bed temperature to allow for an easier sparge.  This may well be true, but
 I suspect that this would be more important for commercial breweries.  A
 friend and I compared the extraction rates for two brews, one sparged with
 cold water, the other with hot..
 
 Just for the record, I never made claims that mashout improves yield.  Only 
 that it would tend to prevent stuck mashes in cases where this could be a 
 problem.  I tend to agree that, assuming a working system, the yield depends 
 primarily on the malt.  My last batch was 34/pts/lb/gal and the only thing I 
 changed was the malt.  I used Belgian Munich.
 
 >  (Jack, you seem to get good results, would you mind trying a cold
 sparge through the EM and let us know how it turns out?)
 
 Hmmm... That's a bit like asking my wife if she would mind if I brought 
 another women home.  I think I know the answer and am not sure what the 
 exercise would prove.
 
 I am sure it would work and with the EM, you can stir it anytime and 
 eliminate set mashes but there is just something about sugar and hot water 
 that seems right.
 
 >From: "Bob Jones" <bjones at novax.llnl.gov>  on RIMS...
 
 Reading the article in Zymurgy on RIMS put me to sleep and the question of 
 "why" kept haunting my dreams.  Now that someone seems to have made it work, 
 I still ask, "why"?  It seems a bit like a computer controlled, laser guided 
 nail clipper.  Would someone please tell me what the benefits are supposed to 
 be?
 
 js
 
 
 

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Date: Tue, 2 Mar 93 22:36:00 CST
From: hopduvel!john at linac.fnal.gov (John Isenhour)
Subject: Belgium

I've been wanting to find an excuse to check out the Belgian brews
real close up, and recently someone told me there was some kind of
brewfest that occurs once every five years called the Leeven
Festival (his spelling) and that it was about 10 Km out of Brussels.
I can find a town called Leuven northeast of Brussels and am hoping
this is the right place.  Anyway, if anyone has any info on this
(its supposed to be in late May) I would really like to hear about
it.

And as long as I'm there:-) I might as well see as much of the
brewscape as I can, so any hints on good places to go or routes or
whatever will be greatly appreciated.  How do you go about dragging
back beers?  Should I consider renting a car (or a truck and a
driver?).
- -- 
John Isenhour                       
renaissance scientist and certified (till they recalc:) Beer Judge 
home: john at hopduvel.UUCP  (hopduvel!john at linac.fnal.gov)
work: isenhour at lambic.fnal.gov 

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Date: Wed, 3 Mar 93 05:01:27 CST
From: todd at gold.rtsg.mot.com (Todd M. Williams)
Subject: cooker conversion summary available...

Greetings All,


Last month I groveled in the following manner...

>	I have a question about cajun cookers.  I have put an addition
>on the ol' homestead, and moved the laundry room into the addition.
>I now want to turn the old laundry room into my brewery :-{)>
>
>	I have a double sink, a floor drain, and the gas line and vent from 
>the dryer.  What I want to do is convert my cajun cooker from a propane
>unit into a natural gas unit.  Can I do this??  If so, does anyone
>know what is involved?  How much it might cost??  Where to get parts???
>
>Any help would be very welcome!!!
>
>Thanks,

Well, I recieved many responses...many more than I expected :-D
I would like to thank everyone personally, but, there are too many!!!
So, you know who you are....THANKS, THANKS, and more THANKS!!!  
I am in the process of preparing a summary and will send it to whoever 
wants it.  I guess this thread was covered over the summer (before I 
started reading HBD) so I won't waste any more bandwidth posting the whole 
summary.  So if you want it, send email to the address below, with a subject 
of "cooker summary", and I will forward it to you.  

See all you CBS/BOSS members at the Goose tonight.

Again...many thanks to all!!

Todd Williams          | Motorola, Inc.
Downers Grove, IL.     | Radio Telephone Systems Group
(708) 971-8692         | Cellular Infrastructure Group
When in Chicago....    | Arlington Heights, IL.
Gimme a call.......    | (708) 632-5691
Stop by for a HB...    | todd at rtsg.mot.com

Moderation, lad....moderation is the key.  8 or 10 is reasonable
refreshment.  After that, and it's likely to degrade into drinking.

  /--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
 / -rwxr-xr-x   1 todd      employer  69   Feb 10 1958  OPINIONS              \
 \ lrwxrwxrwx   1 employer  other     9    Jan 01 1970  OPINIONS -> /dev/null /
  \--------------------------------------------------------------------------/


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Date: Wed, 3 Mar 93 05:33:19 MST
From: stevel at chs.com (7226 Lacroix)
Subject: Does this qualify as anal...or what?????

	I haven't been reading my mail recently, but the current thread re:
The Maltmill definitely qualifies as severely anal IMHO.  Jesus folks, get on
with the rest of your lives will ya.  If you don't like the MM, send it back,
make your own, or whatever, but climb off Jack's ass already!  I'm reminded of
a quote....nah...I've wasted too much time of this post already...
	Steve Lacroix
	Primitive Brewing (worts and all!)

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Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1993 11:54:10 +0000
From: G.A.Cooper at qmw.ac.uk (Geoff Cooper)
Subject: Glass houses

In HBD #1089 george Fix asks:

>                                                        I seem
>to remember from my youth a story about glass houses and stones. Does
>anyone remember how that one goes?

Yes, I remember that one; doesn't it go:

        "People who live in glass houses shouldn't"

On the same lines, I believe, as:

        "Familiarity breeds"

Relax, Have fun, and keep smiling.  :-)

Geoff


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Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1993 08:14:34 -0600
From: trl at photos.wustl.edu (Tom Leith MIR/ERL 362-6965)
Subject: Texas Brewpubs

john at hopduvel.UUCP
isenhour at lambic.fnal.gov writes:  

>ps to BLAST at sn01.sncc.lsu.edu
> 
>>I have to make a trip to Austin, TX next week...
>>Anyone got the latest on brewpubs there?

>Brewpubs are currently illegal in TX:(

Unless you operate it as an amusement park centered around a marine-mammals 
theme, in a county containing a city the size of San Antonio.  Why, then its OK. 
Want to guess who owns Sea World?

	t


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Date: 03 Mar 1993 10:28:22 -0400
From: Ed Hitchcock <ECH at ac.dal.ca>
Subject: Diastatic malt flour

Malt flour with active enzymes makes terrible bread (but great bricks) by 
itself.  However, adding a tablespoon (don't get carried away now) to the 6 
cups or so of regular flour when making bread produces excellent results.  
	ed


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Date:    Wed, 3 Mar 1993 9:40:29 -0500 (EST)
From: R_GELINAS at UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas)
Subject: Belgium, brown sugar

    There was mention of a beer supermarket of sorts in Brussels in a
past HBD.  Could someone point me to the issue, or give me info on
the market if you have it.  A friend is going there, and I'd like him
to have full luggage on the way back ;-).

   Re. brown sugar:  In my book, it's virtually *required* in an English
style ale.  Yes, I actually add brown sugar to all-grain batches, usually 
1 lb (10-15%).  Purist, I'm not.  Beer drinker, I am.

RussG
r_gelinas at unhh.unh.edu

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Date: 03 Mar 1993 09:41:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: KLIGERMAN at herlvx.rtpnc.epa.gov
Subject: several items

I recently posted questions concerning Belgian wyeast 1214  and Whitbread Lager
Yeast (Koenig) dry and have received no responses. Has anyone used these or
have any info. on their flavor profiles, etc.?  Respond by e-mail if you like.
Thanks.

Jena 






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Date: 03 Mar 1993 09:56:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: KLIGERMAN at herlvx.rtpnc.epa.gov
Subject: continuation

I hit the wrong key and prematurely ended my last post. Sorry.  
Jena D. requested info. on honey lagers.  I have made Papazian's 
Propensity Lager several times and it is excellent.  The flavor depends
upon the honey used.

Regarding my use of 17 month old yeast slurry kept in the frig....It did 
not revive in the strarter.  So this might be taken as a duatum for time
that leads to failure.  Others I have done have worked after about a year.

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Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1993 09:00:33 -0600
From: trl at photos.wustl.edu (Tom Leith MIR/ERL 362-6965)
Subject: Dry Herbing With Coriander


Deb <poirier at inrs-ener.uquebec.ca> writes:
> 
> I brewed a batch of Wit last weekend, which is bubbling nicely in the primary.
> The recipe (Miller) calls for the addition of 1 ounce of coriander seed to the
> secondary.  Do I have to boil the coriander before adding it or will there
> be enough alcohol present to ward off any nasties?  Any help would be very
> much appreciated.  Thanks in advance.
> 
I didn't boil or anything, and had no trouble.  But I was careful about handling 
the seeds.  I didn't roll `em around in my hands or anything.  I cracked `em 
open with my coffee grinder -- you could crush with a heavy glass on a cutting 
board, rolling-pin style.  I think some people microwave their dry-herbs to try 
to kill nasties.  I can't comment on the effectiveness of this.  I counted on 
careful handling and the alcohol.  Its probably nothing to worry about.

	t

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Date: 3 Mar 1993 10:01:04 -0500
From: "Daniel F McConnell" <Daniel.F.McConnell at med.umich.edu>
Subject: Fastest Homebrewer/dry beer

                       Subject:                               Time:9:51 AM
  OFFICE MEMO          Fastest Homebrewer/dry beer            Date:3/3/93
I have just discovered the ultimate in quick homebrewed beer.  I can, with this
product make beer in 30 seconds, thus I think I deserve the title of World's
Ultra-Fastest Homebrewer.  The product is South Hills BEER flavored Dry
Beverage.  All you do is add water and presto....beer!  You can make it any
alcoholic strength you want by adding alcohol.  You can make it alcohol free
and be socially acceptable.  This is the ultimate in dry beer.  Just pour the
powder on your tongue (anyone else ever eat a Fizzie?).

Other marketing claims tell us this product has "micro-brewery taste".  Hummm,
I wonder which micro?  "This refreshing drink will help revitalize the weary by
providing carbohydrates necessary to lift the spirit and move the body" (move
over George Clinton).  "You may enjoy this beverage with or without alcohol. 
If adding alcohol, please do not drive or undertake activities requiring sharp,
mental acuity."  What, we need warnings on products that contain no alcohol,
but can have alcohol added?  Next I expect warnings on orange juice, coffee,
Kool-aid.........

Ingredients: Maltodextrine,  natural and artificial beer and malt flavors,
dried beer, and corn syrup solids.

This is made for the backpacking and mountaineering set in mind.  Cost is $1.59
for 8oz which comes to a whopping $127.20 for 5 gallons.


Now for the product review.  I prepared it according to package instructions,
adding the package (less the small amount that I ate dry) to 1 cup of cold
water (the colder, the better), and waited for the "head" to go down.  I also
waited for the large floating blobs to dissolve.  The batch was divided in half
and the recommended 1/2 tablespoon of grain alcohol was added to one.  

Dry: Slightly sweet, sour and effervescent.  Fun and pleasant.

Non-alcohol: Slightly cloudy.  Aroma is that of licorice, no hops, no malt. 
Low carbonation.  Taste is thin, sour with some lemon notes.  Not at all
beer-like.  Drain food.

Alcohol:  Same appearance as NA version.  Alcohol present in nose with
licorice.  Low carbonation.  Flavor is flat, the alcohol predominates over the
sour, lemon flavor.  Drain food.

Overall impression: a waste of perfectly good water.

I'm glad I didn't make a 5 gal batch!  I guess that I will go back to more time
consuming methods:-)

DanMcC

PS.  The cows were picked off the Net.  Am I a cattle rustler?
>          (__)
>          (oo)                       U
>   /-------\/                    /---V
>  / |     ||                    * |--|                       .
> *  ||----||
>    ^^    ^^
> Cow at 1 meter.         Cow at 100 meters.        Cow at 10,000 meters.





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Date: Wed, 3 Mar 93 10:07:22 -0500
From: blosskf at ttown.apci.com (Karl F. Bloss)
Subject: New PA Homebrew Supply Shop

For those of you in the Lehigh Valley, PA or surrounding areas, there's 
a new homebrew supply shop you might be interested in.  At the moment he's
mail order only, except by appointment, since there's no retail shop.
I talked to the guy for a bit and he seemed knowledgeable (at least compared
to me) and quite pleasant.
Call or write and ask for a catalog:

Have A Home Brew
Chris Striba, Brewer & Owner
1322 Weaversville Rd.
Northampton, PA  18067
(215) 262-4092

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Date: Wed, 3 Mar 93 09:50:37 CST
From: roddy at visual-ra.swmed.edu (Roddy McColl)
Subject: Glass Carboys in Dallas Texas - Where are they ?


My brewing friends and I are looking for some prices on glass carboys
in the Dallas Texas area. Any brewers in the area who know of good
prices ($15 is the best we have so far), please let me know where and
how much.

Thank you much

Roddy McColl

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Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1993 10:55:57 -0500 (EST)
From: David C Mackensen <cygnus at unh.edu>
Subject: Starting that siphon!!

What I usually do is use a sanitized turkey baster to start my siphon...
it's kinda hard to explain, but I usually wind up with the turkey
baster full of beer and the hose too (wich is good)...

I usually suck, then let it sit for a second, then squeeze to purge
the air, then suck again, let it settle, then squeeze...

now, if you keep your mind out of the gutter, we should be all set :)

it helps if the baster is at the level you are going to siphon to...

this should get the hose full of beer, then rip the baster out and
away you go... and of course, empty the baster full of beer into the
carboy.

 -chris
- -- 

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Date: Wed, 3 Mar 93 11:03:22 EST
From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: efficient propane burners

Since this burner thread has started up, I thought I would
share my experience with building a propane fed direct fired
burner unit.  My problem was to find a efficient variable 
output burner to both heat the mash tun through various steps
without carmelizing the mash, and also be used to quickly 
heat large volumes of water or wort.  I was aware of the 
Solarflo corporation from a comment in Bill Owens pamphlet on
building a brewery.  I got the brochure from solarflo (
22901 Aurora Rd, Bedford Heights, OH, 44146, 216-439-1680)
and discovered a large selection of slotted cap and inpinged
burners.  These units are made of cast iron and feature air
venting that ensures even burning and optimum combustion.  The
burners are very impressive units, incorporating numerous 
geometries and numbers of jets available.  This kind of product
is not cheap, the unit I selected has 24 slotted cap jets on
a 10.5 inch disk.  This unit ran approx $160.  I do believe 
it is worth the cost for larger applications.  All you need 
other than the burner is a propane ball valve, regulator,
tank and a connection means, I used 1/2 inch refridge copper
tubing flared onto 1/2 inch black iron pipe.  The real nice thing 
about this design is that it is flexible, I can lower or raise 
the burner height or I can adjust the flame BTUs using the Ball
valve.  During mashing, the distributed flame front from 24 jets
allows me to rapidly raise temp without carmelization.  It will
also boil over my wort kettle if I let it.  

Thanks to the people who responded to my filtering question, I am
gathering the necessary elements and will post a synopsis when 
complete.

Good Brewing,

Jim Busch
Colesville, MD

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Date:         Wed, 03 Mar 93 10:57:09 EST
From: Jim Lando <ST403299 at BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU>
Subject:      Alcohol Free -- Can It Be Done?


Dear Homebrewers,
Here's a challenge for you.  I'm an avid beer lover who has been told that I
may not consume alcohol anymore for medical reasons.  The current cast of
non-alcoholic brews pales (no relation to ales) in comparison with the variety
and quality of microbrew and macrobrew available for consumption.  To date
I have found only one non-alcoholic brew which has any hops flavor at all and
this is Freeport USA made by the FX Matt Brewing Co of Utica, NY.
My question then is twofold: 1) Do you know of any other non-alcoholic brews
of any quality? 2) Can one homebrew a non-alcoholic beer? (short of brewing,
distilling, and recarbonating)  Are there solutions which do not involve huge
capital expenditures?  Are there yeasts which produce CO2 but not EtOH?
Any info you have will help.
Thanks In Advance,
Jim Lando

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Date: Wed, 3 Mar 93 09:12:37 MST
From: haney at soul.ampex.com (Kenneth Haney)
Subject: First all grain

Hi all,

Well I finally took the plunge and tried an all-grain beer. I am so
excited I just had to post it. Everything seemed to go amazingly smooth
without any real hic-ups. I think I need to make a bigger lauter-tun,
the one I've been using for partial mashes just isn't big enough, the
grain comes to the top of the bucket. Anyway here is my first attempt.

    9 lbs. Munton & Fison Lager (purchased precrushed, don't have a mill)
    1/2 lbs. same grain toasted for 10 min at 350 in oven
    1/2 lbs. Munton & Fison Crystal Malt  (No idea about L. rating)
    1 oz. Kent Goldings  60 min boil
    1/2 oz. Hershbacher Hallertau (sp??) 30 min boil
    1/2 oz. Hersh. Hall. 10 min boil
    pinch  Irish Moss  10 min boil
    1 pk Edme dry yeast

I used a step mash ala THCOHB. Lauter-tun got filled up to the top
with grain so there was no way to keep sparge water above the grain
bed, still seemed to go smooth. I only have small pots so I had to 
use 4 of them to hold and boil all of the wort. I also split up the 
hops between the pots so they all got some. I chilled with my new
immersion chiller thanks to a none brewer friend that found a copper
coil in his travels and gave it to me. Boy it sure beats the cold 
bath tub bit. It is now fermenting as we speak.

I am going to have to get a big boiling pot some day. I do have a 
cooler to convert to a mash/lauter-tun. Does anyone have any
suggestions about what to do to convert it?????

I sure hope this batch turns out OK, because it sure was fun and
not as hard as I had always thought it would be.

Ken Haney
haney at ampex.com


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Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1993 11:21 EDT
From: Kieran O'Connor <OCONNOR%SNYCORVA.bitnet at CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Millage

Not to inflame the flamers--just leave this one alone.

But on the Maltmill that I purchased, I use a clean paintbrish to
clean the rollers.  It gets out all of the malt dust, and I use my
dustbuster to suck it up.  I use a 2" inch brush--but any will do.

I suppose the only caveat is to make sure its new.


Kieran O'Connor

E-Mail Addresses:

Bitnet: oconnor at snycorva
Internet: oconnor at snycorva.cortland.edu

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Date: Wed, 3 Mar 93 11:19:16 EST
From: Ulick Stafford <ulick at bernini.helios.nd.edu>
Subject: Brewcap, Korea Malt, Chinook

Mike gildner asks about brewcaps.  They are cheap and very useful for
starting siphons.  My prefered method is sucking on the brewcap when
racking to a carboy with the cap on the receiving part of the siphon.
Other than that just suck.  Starting siphons is not all that likely
to infect a batch.  I am convinced all the handling while filling 
the siphone with water is more risky. Swill your mouth with
hard liquor before starting it, if you are concerned. 

It is interesting about the Korean malt as I noticed it in an oriental
food store around the same time as the original mention here.  It was
very pale and cheap so flour seems like the likely explanation.  I used
to use a cheap dried malt extract that I got at a health food store
for brewing.  It was dark and relatively cheap.  However, my girlfriend 
had a reaction to beer made with it, and it made Laaglander seem
fermentable.  I still have some for straters, but since I started 
canning boil dregs I haven't used it.

I have been using Chinook hops as bittering hops, and have been a little
disturbed by a slightly unpleasent aftertaste from beers brewed with
them.  I have heard some criticism of this hop variety.  Am I seeing the
effect of it?  If so can someone recommend a palatable high alpha bittering
hop.
__________________________________________________________________________
 'Heineken!?! ... F#$% that s at &* ...  | Ulick Stafford, Dept of Chem. Eng.  
    Pabst Blue Ribbon!'               | Notre Dame IN 46556
                                      |    ulick at bach.helios.nd.edu   


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Date: Wed, 3 Mar 93 12:11:13 -0500
From: cm199 at cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Thomas G. Moore)
Subject: Commercial beer yeast



I'm looking for commercial beers that you can culture the yeast
out of besides Chimay and Sierra Nevada. Preferably ale yeast. 
Any help would be appreciated!

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Date: Wed, 3 Mar 93 11:11 CST
From: arf at genesis.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: INDEX, BS, Ranching

 
 I noticed in yesterday's index that I had sent two messages to the Digest, 
 subject Maltmill, which I did not.  Fortunately, they did not appear in the 
 body and I gather that Rob's Automagical software can sort out cc's from 
 email but somehow they stick in the index.  
 
 >From: bradley at adx.adelphi.edu (Rob Bradley)
 >Subject: Brown sugar........
 
 >Some beers, especially British ones, are brewed with small amounts
 of brown sugar.
 
 If brown sugar gives you the taste you are looking for, then Reinheightsgbot 
 be damned.  However, you should know that "brown sugar" in the U.S, (thanks 
 to the good old FDA again) is nothing but refined white sugar with molasses 
 added.  If you don't believe it, try it.  I made some when I first heard this 
 and have not bought brown sugar since.
 
 The point is, if you only want the flavor contributed by brown sugar you 
 might consider just using molasses and leaving out the sugar.   You also have 
 a much wider range of flavors in molasses than you do in brown sugar.
 
 >From: atl at kpc.com
 >Subject: Re: Yeast Ranching
 
 I dealt with most of this in email but here are a few comments that may be of 
 interst to others...
 
 > You may have a point on simplicity, but I had more faith in the "canned" 
 wort keeping for a long period of time at room temperature. 
 
 You run the risk of the neck and mouth of the jar contaminating the wort as 
 you pour it out.  I put my pint in the fridge and PC just before use if I 
 need to use it directly.
 
 >  I'm not sure which flask you are referring to.  I use flasks for growing 
 my starters, but I don't boil at that point.  I pour sterile, canned wort 
 into the sanitized flask, stir in a small sample of yeast, and affix a 
 sanitized plastic airlock.
 
 If you use a glass airlock, you can sterilize the wort, flask and airlock all 
 at the same time.   When the wort comes to a boil, put on the lock and the 
 steam sterilizes and fills the lock with sterile water.
 
 I am not trying to be hard to get along with, just hate to see people 
 re-inventing the wheel.
 
 > Can you give me the asian name(s) for this?  I can just imagine going into 
 my local asian grocery and trying to describe agar. :-)
 
 Strangely enough, they call it agar agar.  If you just say agar, you get a 
 blank stare.
 
 js
 

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Date: Wed, 3 Mar 93 09:31:23 -0800
From: SCHREMPP_MIKE/HP4200_42 at pollux.svale.hp.com
Subject: siphon starting

Here's the best siphon starting techniques I've found:

1. Put a racking tube on both ends of ther siphon hose. It makes it a lot
   easier to handle, and helps with step 2.

2. Put a short peice (6") of siphon tube on the out-end of the thing.

3. Sterilize the whole mess.

4. Put the input end into the wort (or whatever). Hold the output end racking
   tube up so the siphon hose is in the air as high as possible.

5. Suck on the out-end to draw liquid up to the top of the upraised siphon.

6. Bring the siphon tube down, but keep the out end of the tube above the level
   of the liquid (the rest is below the liquid level).

7. Pull off the 6" piece off the end so your mouth-nasties are not going into
   your beer.

8. Put the out end where you want the wort to go and then lower it below the
   level of the liquid.

This really works. My spilled wort coefficient has dropped dramatically with
this proceedure. Finding a 6" piece of tubing with a slightly bigger diameter
than typical tubing makes it esaier to take off when the time comes.


Mike Schrempp

Beer is goood
Beer is food
My favorite beer
Is what I've brewed

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Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1993 09:21:22 -0800 (PST)
From: Paul dArmond <paulf at henson.cc.wwu.edu>
Subject: Opaline phytoliths and hop rash

Spring is coming and all of us hop growers are getting excited.  I just
got an answer to a question about hops that had been puzzleing me since
last harvest.  Some of us hop pickers get a red rash and irritation on the
backs of hands and inside of forearms when picking hops.  There was some
speculation last fall about the cause of this:  plant juices, resins, the
stickery things on the bines, etc.

Last week I had a visit from my friend Ryan Drum, the second homebrewer
after my Uncle Charlie that I knew.  In addition to brewing, Ryan is also
a botanist and skilled in electron microscopy.  His explanation of the hop
rash is that the stems are covered with tiny needle-like mineral bodies
called opaline phytoliths (sp?)  These are broken off and get lodged in
the skin, just like fiber-glass insulation.  The little cuts in the skin
are raw and open to further irritation from sweat or other nasties.  

Ryan says that nettles have a similar phytolith and this his how the nasty
oil gets into our skin when we brush against them.  He mentioned hops,
nettles and canabis as all having this kind of needle-like phytoliths.  A
long time ago he classified plants by their phytoliths and used this to
examine coprolites (fossil stools) to determine diets....

Paul.



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Date: Wed, 3 Mar 93 12:37:31 -0600
From: oconnor at ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (donald oconnor)
Subject: brown sugar or caramel malt?


In yesterday's digest Rob Bradley stated he found the "brown sugar
aroma" in a beer made with malt only, no brown sugar.  For several
years I was under the impression that you needed brown sugar or
molasses (Treacle) to get that flavor and aroma and assumed that
the English ales which have that aroma do indeed use these adjuncts.
like Rob, i now wonder if I haven't been mistaken.  what tipped me off
was my first sniff of crushed Special B malt, a belgian crystal (caramel)
malt of about 200 degrees lovibond.  i've used this malt is several
ales now and it does indeed impart something very similar to the 'brown
sugar aroma' that Rob refers to.   

so my question is, does anyone have DIRECT knowledge as to which
English ales use adjuncts such as brown sugar or treacle?   i wonder
if some of the ones which we think use these are actually using 
very dark crystal malts similar to special B.  does anyone know
if there are very dark english crystal malts which are unavailable
in the U.S.


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Date:         Wed, 03 Mar 93 13:41:51 EST
From: Daniel Butler-Ehle <DWBUTLER at MTUS5.cts.mtu.edu>
Subject:      BrewCap


To Mike Gildner <gildner at mml.mmc.com> who asked about the BrewCap:

BrewCap doesn't really make it easier to take samples.  You have
two tubes: one reaches up to the bottom of the inverted carboy to
allow CO2 and kraeusen to escape, and the other collects yeast.
In order to get a sample of the beer, you have two choices:
   1) Empty all the yeast out of the yeast collection tube and let
      it drain until you have clear beer coming out.  But the
      instructions say never to remove ALL the yeast from the tube.
      If you do this, you may cause the water trap liquid in the
      tube to get sucked up into the carboy.
or
   2) Drain the water from the larger tube (the blowoff tube), cap
      it, and shake the carboy until enough beer splashes up into
      the end of the rigid tube inside the carboy.  This gives a
      clearer sample than (1).

I've only used my BrewCap once.  It works well, but it'll take a
little getting used to.  Maybe I'll use it on one of my beers next
week.  It should be great for repitching yeast when batches overlap
because of the yeast collection tube; it's easy to remove a large
sample of freshly-settled yeast.

It took me two years to get around to using BrewCap after I bought it.
The main reason is that it requires that I have some way to hold a
carboy upsidedown without resting it on its neck.  I took a bunch of
backpack straps and sewed them together in such a way that they can
hold an inverted carboy by the shoulders.  I then hung this setup in
an upsidedown steel kitchen stool.

_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_Keweenaw
                                            Real
 Dan Butler-Ehle                             Ale
 Calumet, Michigan                            Enthusiasts
                                               United for
 dwbutler at mtus5.cts.mtu.edu                     Serious
        -or-                                     Experimentation in
 DWBUTLER at MTUS5.BITNET                            Naturally
                                                   Effervescent
         the U.P.'s best homebrew club              Refreshment
_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_Science

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Date: Wed, 3 Mar 93 13:06:33 CST
From: tony at spss.com (Tony Babinec)
Subject: sugar in English beers/other thoughts

A perusal of Roger Protz's "Real Ale Drinker's Almanac" indicates
that a substantial fraction of English ale recipes employ adjuncts
and additives such as sugar, molasses, treacle, caramel, flaked
maize, and occasionally flaked wheat.  Somewhere -- it may be in
Terry Foster's "Porter" -- I read that in the 19th century English
producers were encouraged by the Government to use sugar.  Was this
an effort by the Government to encourage the home island to
patronize the colonial sources of sugar?  In any event, the
smoothness and lightness of body contributed by the adjuncts might
make the preferred "session beers" less filling to the palate,
thereby encouraging the quaffing of another pint.  While I don't
know the relative prices, it could be (and might have been) that
the cost of ingredients for such a beer might be less than if it
were an all-malt beer.  And, the unfermentables in the less-refined
sugars would contribute to aroma and flavor.

I agree with Rob Bradley that as novices we learn to stay away from
sugar, but that it nonetheless has its place.  So, by all means,
experiment with sugars in your ales.

On Bass Ale, they are quite secretive about their process and
ingredients.  None of the publications I've seen, such as the Roger
Protz books, say anything about ingredients such as the hops used,
because the brewer isn't telling.

It also seems that an important contributor to flavor, aroma, and
palate is the yeast used, and also the fermentation temperature.
John The Hop Devil ("More malt, More hops"), I'd love to take some
of that Fuller's yeast off your hands!    

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Date: Wed, 3 Mar 93 11:15:36 MST
From: pyle at intellistor.com (Norm Pyle)
Subject: hop aroma / real ale

Donald O'Connor's comments about dry hopping made me think about what the
Brit's call "Real Ale".  I believe this term is intended to describe ale that
has been dry hopped, and that has finished fermentation/conditioning in the
keg.  Since this is done under pressure, this may explain the English folks'
love of real ale.  Actually, it probably doesn't imply dry-hopping as much as
leaving hops in the keg (perhaps left from the boil), but in either case,
more hop aroma would be retained in this situation.

Cheers,
Norm

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1090, 03/04/93