HOMEBREW Digest #1094 Wed 10 March 1993

Digest #1093 Digest #1095

		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

  Sanitizing Chemicals (Markham R. Elliott)
  Carboy for under $15 (Joe H. Barfield)
  Texas Brewpub Legalization (Joe H. Barfield)
  Ranching or Farming? (Rick Myers)
  Places to go in Brussels (Rob Simpson)
  WOMEN,BEER,AND THE HBD (Sandy Cockerham)
  White beer: let's talk turkey (Phillip Seitz)
  Cornelius keg FAQ (Mike McCaughey)
  Peracetic acid; sodium hydroxide (Joseph Nathan Hall)
  Re: English/British (Desmond Mottram)
  [To: rianhard:  New Home Brewing Store in N.J.] (FSAC-PMD) <pburke at PICA.ARMY.MIL>
  Brew Supplies (Jpetty)
  weisse bier (CHUCKM)
  Newbie Questions (David Holsclaw)
  Sparge Times & water pH (Tom Leith MIR/ERL 362-6965)
  re: Older, but not sweeter / Cloudy (James Dipalma)
  Plastic Primaries & Marin Brewery Directions (Richard Childers)
  Celis Substitute? (Norm Pyle)
  Raw Sugar (Jack Schmidling)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 8 Mar 93 19:54:56 GMT From: u4imdmre at cpc41.cpc.usace.army.mil (Markham R. Elliott) Subject: Sanitizing Chemicals To all you technicals out there (and laymen like me), If I could get some clarification on sanitation please. In my last post to the HBD, I asked about the techniques of using a secondary fermentation vessel, and a consensus on the amount of different priming agents that could be used. Many replies suggested I get a plastic bucket and mix the priming agent with the beer in the bucket, then bottle from it. Well I made the batch using a secondary and bottled it before getting a bucket, we will see how it turns out. I am a bit concerned about the tremendous amount of fermentation activity for 3 days, then _nothing_. But, that is another matter. This weekend I acquired a 5 gal pail (Carl West was right, check out Chinese Food places [HBD #1041], not only do they get oil in them, but soy sauce as well). I took it home to clean it up (yuch! :-b ), using massive amounts of Tide laundry soap, mass quantities of water and an old sponge. I got to thinking while in the midst of this mess, how should I really be cleaning and sanitizing this thing. A discussion was held in HBD issues 1030 through 1055 about cleansing agents, disinfectants, food vs. lab grade plastics and the like. What bothers me is that nothing was really definitively stated about cleaning plastic pails. It was noted that Iodine and Iodophor shouldn't be used because they stain, and the plastic absorbs/leeches back the chemicals. Detergents shouldn't be used because they leave surfacants which are detrimental to the brew. If peracetic acid (acetic acid+H2O2) will dissolve an un-jacketed bullet, I'm not going to use it on my equipment. Finally, a lot was said about using chlorine bleach, but no one seems to agree about how to use it (concentration vs contact time etc.), or if it should really be used, again because of the absorption/leeching problem(s). I know, I know, RDWHAHB. Really though, is there an accepted method and or chemical to use, and what is it? The bucket originally had soy sauce in it, then apparently was used as a frying oil/grease repository. Pretty gross stuff before "cleaning". I realize that the beer will be in the bucket for only a short time, but I would hate to ruin a good batch of beer during the bottling process just because I didn't clean the plastic right. Suggestions are welcome, but again, is there a DEFINITIVE answer with regard to HDPE plastic? Noch einmal, bitte!! Mark - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Markham R. Elliott u4imdmre at cpc41.cpc.usace.army.mil Information Technology Laboratory (601) 634-2921 Waterways Experiment Station Vicksburg, Mississippi USA - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1993 14:33:24 +0700 From: ifby546 at ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Joe H. Barfield) Subject: Carboy for under $15 St. Patrick's of Austin sells 7 gal. carboys for $10. They advertise in the back of Zymurgy. Contact Lynne O'Connor at (512) 832-9045. Don O'Connor had a HBD post on hop aroma last week. Joe Barfield, Publisher, Southwest Brewing News, ifby546 at ccwf.cc.utexas.edu Brewnews from Arkansas, Arizona, Louisiana, New Mexico, Oklahoma & Texas. 406 W. 35th, Austin, TX, 78705. 512/467-2225. (FAX)512/282-4936. Subscrips - $12/yr. - -------------------- Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1993 14:44:19 +0700 From: ifby546 at ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Joe H. Barfield) Subject: Texas Brewpub Legalization Folks, Texas Brewpub Legislation is in committee. Please write & call the following legislators _this_ week_. All the major changes that would make the proposed bad legislation into good legislation will be considered as you read this. If you have any questions please email me. I didn't know if this was the correct forum for BPub legalization issues but I figured a brewpub is a perfect place for homebrew clubs to meet! Please forward to all Texans who like beer. Thanks Joe Barfield, Publisher, SWBN - --- Southwest Brewing News Brewpub Legalization Guide. 3/8/93. Please forward to interested friends. Brewopub n. A brewery that sells its own beer on premise. Or a Restaurant that brews its own beer. Legal in 42 states. Something Texas needs to legalize to join the rest of the civilized nation. Folks, we can legalize brewpubs this year. All you have to do is call and write to the following legislators and voice a few simple requests. What to tell the legislators: Key consideration: BE BRIEF! These folks are busy. If as many folks call in as we hope, we could possibly end up alienating some V.I.P.'s if we drone on. It really won't hurt if you limit your calls to the following three statements. 1."I support brewpub legalization in the TABC Sunset Bill" The bill considered is referred to as the T.A.B Sunset Bill. There are identical bills introduced in the Senate and the House. 2. "I want brewpubs to have the right to sell for on and off-premise consumption." Currently, the legislation disallows sales for off-premise consumption. Most states allow people to purchase a refillable container with which to carry beer purchased at the brewpub home for consumption. Currently many bars in Texas enjoy this right. Why should this privilege be denied to brewpubs in Texas? 3. "I want brewpubs to have the right to limited self-distribution." Brewpubs generally start small. So small that it's not worth a large distributor's effort to distribute a brewpub's products to local venues. In order to supply a local area with fresh products, a brewpub has to initially be able to distribute its own products. This may be as few as a couple of kegs per week to a nearby bar. As the brewpub grows, it becomes more rewarding to each party if a distributor handles a brewpubs contracts. In fact, in California, brewpubs can distribute their beer, yet over 95% of California's brewpub beer is distributed by beer wholesalers. Who to contact: Write to and call the following important people: (and communicate the 3 phrases listed above) 1. Sponsors of Senate Bill #622: Senator Carriker (512) 463-0130, Speak with Mark Moran, Legislative Aide. Senator Ike Harris, Co-author (512) 463-0108, Speak with Tiffany Wehner, Staff Assistant. Senator Carl Parker, Co-author (512) 463-0104, Speak with David Gonzales, Legislative Aide. 2. Sponsors of House TABC Sunset Bill: Representative David Cain (512) 463-0476, Speak with the receptionist. Representative Ron Wilson (512) 463-0744 3. Members of Committees reviewing the bill Senate State Affairs Committee O. H. (Ike) Harris, Chair 463-0108 Peggy Rosson, Vice Chair 463-0129 Steve Carriker 463-0130 Don Henderson 463-0107 John Leedom 463-0116 Eddie Lucio 463-0127 Gregory Luna 463-0119 Jane Nelson 463-0122 Jerry Patterson 463-0111 Dan Shelley 463-0106 David Sibley 463-0109 Royce West 463-0123 John Whitmire 463-011 House Licensing and Administrative Procedures Committee Ron Wilson, Chair 463-0744 Dan Kubiak, ViceChair 463-0600 David Cain 463-0476 Ben Campbell 463-0478 Bill G. Carter 463-0482 Mario Gallegos 463-0614 Tony Goolsby 463-0454 Paul Hilbert 463-0572 Delwin Jones 463-0542 Garfield Thompson 463-0716 Ken Yarbrough 463-0648 4.Your local Senator and House Representative a. Call them at the phone numbers listed on back page b. Write to them at the following addresses: The Honorable {Representative} The Honorable {Senator} The House of Representatives The Senate of Texas P.O. Box 2910 P.O. 12068 Austin, TX 78768-2910 Austin, TX 78711-2068 If you aren't sure who your legislator is, call your county voter registration office and ask for the names of your House Representative and Senator. Your county's voter registration telephone number should be on your voter registration card or in the county section of your telephone book's blue pages. If you can't find the number call 1-800-253-9693. They may be able to tell you your senator & representatives' names. Attend the Public Hearings: Call the bill tracking service at 1-800-253-9693. You can follow the progress of the bills as they are reviewed by committees. Remember, the bills in question are referred to as the "TABC Sunset Bill". HB335 is NOT the Brewpub bill. By all means, attend the public hearing! Sign up in support of Brewpub Legalization. When your turn to testify is announced say "I support brewpub legalization. I defer my comments to (the designated spokespeople)." We will be at the hearing in advance and will let you know who will speak on Brewpub Legalization's behalf. Of course you have the right to speak on your own behalf, but exasperating the committee members by droning on will hinder rather than help us. Remember, please BE BRIEF. Questions can be referred to Joe Barfield, Publisher, Southwest Brewing News at ifby546 at ccwf.cc.utexas.edu Address mail to 406 W. 35th, Austin, TX 78705. (512) 467-2225. SUPPORT FRESH BEER IN TEXAS! Joe Barfield, Publisher, Southwest Brewing News, ifby546 at ccwf.cc.utexas.edu Brewnews from Arkansas, Arizona, Louisiana, New Mexico, Oklahoma & Texas. 406 W. 35th, Austin, TX, 78705. 512/467-2225. (FAX)512/282-4936. Subscrips - $12/yr. - -------------------- Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 93 15:03:29 MST From: Rick Myers <rcm at col.hp.com> Subject: Ranching or Farming? > Just to educate you (as someone else educated me a month ago in > alt.folklore.urban), yeast are not plants according to modern > biological taxonomy. The fungi are in a different kingdom from the > plants. OK, yeast are fungi. But, have you ever heard of a mushroom ranch? I think not. Most fungi grow from the soil. I brew beer and raise yeast on my 5 acre farm. Therefore, yeast must be "farmed"... :-) - -- Rick Myers rcm at col.hp.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 93 14:48:05 GMT From: Rob Simpson <robs at charles-cross.plymouth.ac.uk> Subject: Places to go in Brussels I am due to go to Brussels this week-end. Any recomendations as to where to go and what to see whilst there? Anyone know of any breweries that welcome visitors/have tours etc.? Thanks Rob robs at cx.plym.ac.uk Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 93 03:01 GMT From: Phillip Seitz <0004531571 at mcimail.com> Subject: White beer: let's talk turkey The arrival of Celis has spurred an interest in brewing white beers, and in addition some HBDers have expressed a desire for more recipes on the net. The following recipe and comments should provide a good start for people who want to get ready for their summer white beer drinking. CITADELLE WHITE (5 gals.) 5 lbs. 2-row pale malt 3 lbs. Belgian wheat malt .75 lb. hard red winter wheat .5 oz Styrian Goldings (6.8% AA), boiled for 60 minutes 10 grams ground coriander (boiled 10 minutes) zest of 4 oranges and one lime (added after end of boil) 12.5 ml 88% lactic acid (added at bottling) 110 grams corn sugar in 4.75 gallons for priming Hoegaarden white yeast cultured from brewery sample OG: 1.042 FG: 1.012 Procedure: Strike with 8 quarts at 135F for 20 minute protein rest at 122- 124F; Add 1 gallon boiling water to raise to 145F, then heat to 158F for 30 minute saccrification; add 2 gallons boiling water for 10-minute mashout at 170F; transfer to lauter tun and let sit 20 mins, then sparge with 6 gallons water at 180F. I stopped sparging at 1.008, collecting 6.25 gallons at 1.037. Boiled for 90 minutes and cooled with immersion chiller. Tasting notes: Lemon/gold color with a substantial haze and white head. Slightly orangey aroma. Light to medium body with full, almost moussy carbonation. Light to moderate tartness with subtle but pleasant coriander flavor, some orange present but faint. Aftertaste mostly tart and coriander-ish. I wouldn't go head to head with Celis White, but this is unmistakably a white beer and will make for excellent hot-weather drinking. Specifics: Grain bill--The basic bill is 60% barley malt, 30% wheat malt, and 10% raw wheat. The latter was purchased at my local food coop for $0.55/lb. I would increase the gravity to 1.046 next time but think these proportions provide good results with little trouble. The raw wheat was absolute hell to grind, but there were no problems with the mash and sparge. Thanks to Jim Busch, the sultan of wheat beer, for help with the grain proportions. Hops: Anything will do as long as it's not too caustic or spicy. Go for something noble-ish. My target was 14 IBU. Yeast: A local brewer brought back yeast from the Hoegaarden brewery, but I don't think the yeast choice is critical. This yeast has less character than the Celis, so anything that ferments reasonably thoroughly and has some character should do. Coriander: 10 grams (about 2 teaspoons) gave good but not strong flavor, to my palate a bit more than the Celis white but not anywhere near excessive. Orange: I purchased some dried orange peel at my coop, and boiled 2 grams in one gallon of water as a test. The result had a very unpleasant, ham-like flavor and aroma. The same applied when I used dried McCormick peel, and even fresh peel (though a little less so). I did NOT want this flavor in my beer (if you don't believe me, try it!). For this reason I used the Papazian fruit method, adding the peel just after the boil for sanitation reasons. This worked pretty well, though most of the aromatics were scrubbed during the fermentation; I used a 6.7 gallon carboy for a single-stage fermentation, and for the first 3 days it smelled like orange juice. If you want more orange aroma, add some peel to your secondary. Since Sunkist oranges aren't curacao oranges, I added the peel of one lime for some tartness and character. Can't tell if it helped, but it sure didn't hurt. Lactic acid: At time of bottling the beer was 4.7 pH, and not tart. I added lactic acid (available from the Malt Shop in Wisconsin) to taste, starting with 10 ml. 2.5 additional ml brought it to about where I wanted it, and the pH at that point was +/- 4.3. However, I dosed it according to taste, not numbers. The result was right on target, taste-wise, and I'm thoroughly sold on the use of this stuff. Thanks to the many HBDers who provided information on their experiments with this ingredient. Please note that this recipe will not make you two cases of Celis or Hoegaarden, but I think you'll do fine with it. Some tweaking to bring it in line with your own tastes, and I hope the notes will save you some time, effort, and experimentation. Phil Seitz PSEITZ at MCIMAIL.COM Arlington, VA Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 93 22:08:25 CST From: mrmike at geta.life.uiuc.edu (Mike McCaughey) Subject: Cornelius keg FAQ A long time ago some kind soul posted a FAQ-like document on Corny keg cleaning, handling and filling systems. Alas, now that I'm ready to take the plunge, I can't find it in my own archives or at Stanford. Could someone send me a copy or point me to where it is on the archives? Alternately, since questions about soda-pop kegs keep uh, popping up (sorry), it might be a good idea to put one together for the Stanford archives. I'm willing to put it together, but I am obviously not a kegging expert and will need to solicit your advice. Send mail to me directly to avoid clogging the digest. Tanks and Regards, mrmike mrmike at geta.life.uiuc.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 93 22:27:15 EST From: joseph at joebloe.maple-shade.nj.us (Joseph Nathan Hall) Subject: Peracetic acid; sodium hydroxide Darrell said: ) A recent thread concerning the possible use of peracetic as a sanitizer ) prompted me to search for some information on this compound. The Merck ) Index lists peracetic as "a powerful oxidizer, strongly corrosive to ) tissue, explodes violently upon heating to 110 deg. C." Coupled with ) the fact that one liter costs $90, this information left me wondering ) if any significant benefit could be realized by using this compound. ) Anyone have any practical experience with this substance? I myself have wondered why a couple of the hbd luminaries have announced their intentions to use this stuff for sanitation purposes. In any event, I think you can roll your own by mixing strong acetic acid and strong hydrogen peroxide. Now, the glacial acetic is cheap, and so is 30% h2o2. (Stay away from the 50% stuff.) BUT: Not having tried this, I can't tell you whether or not it blows up in your face. - ----- In a similar vein, I just tried using sodium hydroxide (lye; caustic soda) to clean some hoses. All I can say is, WOW. I added about 1 oz of a saturated, filtered solution of sodium hydroxide (about 1 part NaOH to 2 parts water) to 3-4 inches of warm water in my sink and dropped in the offending hoses, which included one blowoff tube coated inside with hop and protein scrudge. (Needless to say, I was wearing a nice, thick pair of rubber gloves.) The stuff *immediately* came off the tube into the water, much as water soluble ink might have. A few minutes soak and a little swish, followed by a thorough rinse, and, voila, squeaky clean tubes. Although the handling precautions are considerable, I would recommend this to anyone who has a tough cleaning problem. (But obviously you should keep lye away from your aluminum utensils unless you want to dissolve them.) I may begin using it to clean my carboys after messy primary fermentations. ================O Fortuna, velut Luna, statu variabilis================ uunet!joebloe!joseph (609) 273-8200 day joseph%joebloe at uunet.uu.net 2102 Ryan's Run East Rt 38 & 41 Maple Shade NJ 08052 Copyright 1993 by Joseph N. Hall. Permission granted to copy and redistribute freely over USENET and by email. Commercial use prohibited. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 93 11:37:11 GMT From: des at pandora.swindon.ingr.com (Desmond Mottram) Subject: Re: English/British > >PS please don't refer to England or English when you mean Britain or > >British. It upsets the natives no end. My somewhat flippant remark provoked so many inquiries by mail I felt a post to clarfy was in order, despite having nothing to do with homebrew. I'll keep it short and suggest follow-ups to soc.culture.british or by mail. Britain / British Isles / UK mean practically the same thing. England does not. Britain comprises England, Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland, the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands. The English are of predominantly Nothern European extraction: Saxon and Dane. All the others are predominantly Celtic and were there before the Romans came. They all have their own languages and culture. (If you visit England take a trip into Wales and you'll see bilingual road signs). Owing to political and economic domination by England, a fierce nationalistic pride is possessed by the Welsh, Scots and Irish, who do not wish to see their national identity submerged and dominated by the English. So they don't like it when they are referred to as "English". British is OK but if you know the person's origin, Welsh, Scot/Scottish, or Irish is better. Only Northern Ireland is in the UK. Eire is not. They are Irish, period. "Brit" is a common term of abuse there. Is this recognisable to some of you? Funny lot humans... Rgds, Desmond "a good Irish name that" Mottram Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 93 7:10:14 EST From: "Peter J. Burke" (FSAC-PMD) <pburke at PICA.ARMY.MIL> Subject: [To: rianhard: New Home Brewing Store in N.J.] Please excuse if this is sent twice, I don't know why it does that... - ----- Forwarded message # 1: Date: Tue, 9 Mar 93 7:05:45 EST From: Peter J. Burke (FSAC-PMD) <pburke at PICA.ARMY.MIL> To: rianhard at PICA.ARMY.MIL, wboyle at PICA.ARMY.MIL, wkoenig at PICA.ARMY.MIL, econner at PICA.ARMY.MIL cc: pburke at PICA.ARMY.MIL Subject: New Home Brewing Store in N.J. Message-ID: <9303090705.aa21707 at FSAC3.PICA.ARMY.MIL> Greetings, A new home brewing store opened in Cranford NJ a few days ago. They don't have a credit card machine yet, but have mostly everything else that Teaneck & Red Bank have. The Brewmeister 115 N. Union Ave Cranford, NJ 07016 (908) 709-9295 GSP south to Cranford Exit (just past Union tolls) This puts you on North Avenue (going towards Cranford) At first light (gas station) make a right (Elizabeth St.) At blinking light (next light) make a left (North Union Ave) You follow this road going over a small bridge and past a church. It is in the center of town on the right side next to a Hallmark-type store. Mon, Tues, Wed: 12:30 - 8:00pm Thurs: 12:30 - 9:00pm Fri: 12:30 - 8:00pm Sat: 10:00 - 6:00pm Sun: 12:00 - 3:00pm As you can see, mighty convinent hours. The proprieter is the secratry of a local home brewing club (They meet at Sandy Hook every month). He plans on keeping a fresh rotating grain stock with specials from different countries every month. PROST ! - ----- End of forwarded messages Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 93 7:34:41 EST From: Jpetty at PICA.ARMY.MIL Subject: Brew Supplies The following may be of interest to HBD readers; I have no affiliation. Red Bank Brewing Supply Red Bank, N.J. 1-800-779-7507 In addition to a complete line of brewing supplies, They claim to have staff who serve on advisory panels to commercial breweries and publications. They maintain an on site pilot brewery to insure quality of materials and offer courses for brewers. They specialize in hard to find and unusual equipment and supplies as well as metal fabrication for custom brewing fixtures. Their prices are very reasonable. Return to table of contents
Date: 09 Mar 93 08:12:27 EST From: CHUCKM at PBN73.Prime.COM Subject: weisse bier Hi BrewFolk, I'm interested in peoples experiences brewing Bavarian Weisse Bier. I have read Warner's book and still have some questions. Re: Weisse beer yeast Wyeast 3056 in the only commercial weisse yeast I know of. Warner indicated in his book that some German brewers prime their Weisse biers with lager yeast and some do not. Does this mean that some are primed with the same yeast that they are fermented with? If yes, are any of these biers available in the US and is their yeast re-culturable. In the Gadgets issue of Zymurgy, Warner was written up in the winner's circle section for Weisse Bier. His recipe said he used yeast cultured from a bottle of German Moy Weisse Bier. -- Has anyone ever seen this in the US? Re: Mashing Warner maintains that decoction is the only way to go and barely had two or three sentences about infusion. Any comments? Your replies will be greatly appreciated, Chuckm at pbn73.prime.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1993 08:40:04 +22306512 (CST) From: dhholscl at rs6000.cmp.ilstu.edu (David Holsclaw) Subject: Newbie Questions Guys and Gals of the brewing world, I starting brewing about six months and six batches ago, and I have several questions that I am sure will make me look foolish but I would like to have answers. For the record I have Charlie P's book and just purchased Dave Miller's _The Complete Handbook of Home Brewing_ so if you could point me towards chapters or sections (that answer my questions) that I might have missed or not fully understood at the time I read them, that would probably save bandwidth and make everyone very happy. :) I have been adding specialty grains (crystal, chocolate, etc.) to my brews and IMHO they are turning out great!! My question pertains to the purpose of the specialty grains. Do they simply impart a flavor to the beer? I realize they have little or no enzymes so 'no' conversion of the starches can take place like in a real mash. Right? My second question is about using flaked maize as an adjunct. My wife likes Miller Genuine Draft. I know, I know, I can see the flames coming already. I am slowly converting her over to 'real' beer, but I aldo told her I would attempt an American Lager with some corn in it. Can I simply boil these little devils, strain and add to the wort or do the starches provided by the maize also have be coverted through a mash with malts containing enzymes? If anyone has any extract recipes for this type of beer I would greatly appreciate seeing them. Thanks to all who have taken the time to read all of this and reply. I have learned a lot from the collective wisdom of the net and wish you all great beers. - -- David Holsclaw - -- dhholscl at rs6000.cmp.ilstu.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1993 09:32:12 -0600 From: trl at photos.wustl.edu (Tom Leith MIR/ERL 362-6965) Subject: Sparge Times & water pH Frank Tutzauer <COMFRANK at ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu> >So, how long should I make it? The most convenient is to finish the >sparge right as the wort on the stove is coming to a boil. Is this >reasonable? Whether its reasonable depends, of course, on how long it takes your stove to raise the wort to a boil 8-) One of the brewers in my club starts heating the boiling kettle after its about 1/3 full, and by the time the last of the sparge is running into the kettle, it been boiling for 10-15 minutes. His beers are consistently among the very best in the club. This technique saves him maybe 45 minutes per brewing session. Not bad, eh? >Is longer better (more sugars?), Yes >or is shorter better (fewer tannins?)? Yes My favorite authority (Miller) says the sparge should take 45 minutes to an hour. He says this gives a good balance between extraction and avoiding tannins. It has worked well for me. My wheat ale took about 1:15 -- my other beers work like yours -- I have to close the spigot to make the sparge take more time. I insulate my lauter tun and keep a lid on it to keep it hot. I'm using a grain bag in my bottling bucket, which I fitted with a false bottom made from the lid of the bottling bucket. Keeping the grain bed hot makes controlling the runoff rate much easier -- it becomes a matter of throttling the thing down. I've changed my technique a bit since I made the wheat ale, so I'm expecting it to go better next time. I have been acidifying my sparge water, but I'm not convinced it makes a difference, at least in higher-gravity, dark beers. In the lighter beers (1040 or less) I'm sure the effect would be more pronounced because there's less stuff in there to mask the tannins. Your comments on Noonan's book gave me a big grin, but in his defense, he's writing mainly for commercial brewers (small scale and pilot plant operators), and the key in that game is batch-to-batch consistency, in the extreme. What should you do? Hmmmmm. If you notice any kind of astringency in your beer, try acidifying your sparge water. Astringency leaves a kind of dry, chalky feeling in your mouth. The other thing you might try is testing the pH of the last cup of your runoff. If the pH is above 5.5, try acidifying. The other thing to keep in mind is that all this depends on the grains you use. Dark, roasty malts tend to make the mash more acidic than light malts. If you want to experiment with your techniques, make measurements, and write down what you do, just as they taught you in chemistry lab 8-) t ============================================================================= Tom Leith InterNet: trl at wuerl.WUstl.EDU 4434 Dewey Ave. CompuServe: 70441,3536 St. Louis, Missouri 63116 "Tho' I could not caution all 314/362-6965 - Office I still might warn a few: 314/362-6971 - Office Fax Don't lend your hand 314/481-2512 - Home + Infernal Machine to raise no flag atop no Ship of Fools" ============================================================================= Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 93 10:34:12 EST From: dipalma at banshee.sw.stratus.com (James Dipalma) Subject: re: Older, but not sweeter / Cloudy Hi All, In HBD#1093, Norm Pyle writes: >The first problem I've had from my very first brews. It involves sweetness, >or a lack thereof. As my beers age, they seem to lose the sweetness they had >when they were younger. I'm comparing the flavor profile from a 1-month old >brew to a 3-month old brew (since bottling). This has happened with extract >brews, partial mashes, and all-grain'ers. I _really_ like my beers when they >are young, but as they age, I like them less and less. The hop bitterness >starts to overpower them, as the sweetness fades. >... >So, this sounds like an infection problem, right? >Bacteria/wild yeasts eating up the "unfermentables", etc. etc. Well, none of >my brews have ever experienced gushing. Well, *something* is reducing the complex sugars after bottling, and since you are not getting gushers, it doesn't seem likely that it's bacteria. My guess would be that you are using a highly attenuative yeast. What strain of yeast are you using? Also, if you are reusing yeast across several batches, the strain will become noticeably more attenuative after a few batches. >Second problem: my all-grain brews (3 to date) are, without exception, >cloudy. I do a simple single-stage infusion at 150-158F. I've used American >and British 2-row >... >Do I need to a protein rest? Could you provide a little more detail, Norm? Is the beer cloudy at room temperature, or does it become cloudy after the beer is chilled? If it's cloudy at room temperature, the problem is probably not excess protein, but a starch haze. A too-fine crush of the malt results in excessive flour and pulverizing of the husks, which leads to poor filtration during sparging. Check your crush, and make sure the husks are intact or nearly so. If the beer is clear at room temperature but becomes cloudy when chilled, you have chill haze (don't worry, it's not contagious :-)). Chill haze is a reaction between long chain proteins and tannins in the beer. There are many ways to treat this problem. A protein rest of 115F-120F for 30 minutes will reduce the long chain proteins that cause chill haze, however, this is generally not necessary with highly modified British 2-row malt. Fining with 1 teaspoon of Irish moss 30 minutes before the end of the boil will help settle out the proteins. You could also fine with polyclar at the end of secondary fermenatation, just before bottling. Polyclar helps to settle out the tannins that react with proteins to cause chill haze. *********************************************************** Also in HBD#1093, Steve Zabarnick writes: >I started homebrewing two months ago and have had two out of >three batches go sour. The first batch was the only not to >bad. For all batches I used a plastic bucket primary This suggests to me that you may have scratched the primary while cleaning it after your first batch. Once a plastic fermenter is scratched, it becomes very difficult to sanitize properly. Check your primary carefully for scratches, and if there are some, replace it. *********************************************************** Frank Tutzauer writes about his first all grain batch: First, let me congratulate you on joining the ranks of the snobbish elite :-) :-) (smileys included for the humor impaired) >First, in yesterday's digest, Joe Stone asks how long the >sparge should take. I've got the same question. Miller, people in my club, >and lots of other folks talk about the sparge slowing to a trickle. Mine >didn't. It did slow a little, but never to a trickle. If I'd've wanted to, I >could have run it out like gangbusters. If your runoff slows to a trickle when the tap is wide open and the tun full of water, this is a problem, the mash is starting to set. I experimented with runoff rates for a while trying to determine the optimal rate. I started running off about 1 gal/15 minutes, or 90 minutes for 6 gallons, and carefully measured and recorded my extraction rate. Gradually, I sped this up until I got to 1 gal/8 minutes, or just over 45 minutes for 6 gallons. At rates higher than this, my extraction began to drop. Of course, this is based on my brewing environment (geometry of my tun, my procedures, etc.), your mileage may and probably will vary. Don't be afraid to experiment. >Is longer better (more sugars?), or is shorter better (fewer >tannins?)? I think tannin extraction is more a function of pH and the amount of sparge water used, rather than the runoff rate. As sparge water is added, sugars are extracted, and the pH of the mash becomes more alkaline. Eventually, you get to the point where more tannin than sugar is being extracted, you want to stop before this occurs. So, sparge at the fastest rate possible without extraction dropping off, and use both your hydrometer and your palate to determine when to stop. I start tasting the runoff and monitoring the gravity as I get close to 6 gallons collected. For my setup, when the gravity gets to ~1.010 the taste of tannin first becomes noticeable, and this is when I stop sparging. >Second, what's the deal on acidifying the mash? Miller says to get the pH to >5.0 to 5.5. I checked right after doughing in, and it was like maybe 6.3. >...What should I do in the future? The amylase enzyme works well at the pH range Miller recommends. Adding a small amount of gypsum to the mash should do the trick. >Finally, should I acidify the sparge water? This question should be a FAQ, if it isn't already. Unless you have an extreme water situation, this should not be necessary. In my case, I have a private well with extremely hard water. I had an astrigency problem with my beers because the pH of the mash was getting too alkaline during sparging. Acidifying the sparge water helped me, but I'd guess it's not necessary in your case, judging by the pH of your mash after doughing in. Now that I've answered your questions, could you answer one for me? >I got about 28 points a pound. >but the sparge >took place while the rest of the runoff was heating up on the stove How are you measuring your extraction rating with part of the wort on the stove, and part of it still coming out of the tun? Cheers, Jim Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 93 08:01:34 -0800 From: pascal at netcom.com (Richard Childers) Subject: Plastic Primaries & Marin Brewery Directions "Date: Mon, 8 Mar 93 12:01:44 -0500 From: steve at snake.appl.wpafb.af.mil (Steve Zabarnick) Subject: Recurring infections "I started homebrewing two months ago and have had two out of three batches go sour. The first batch was the only not to bad. For all batches I used a plastic bucket primary and a glass carboy secondary." It is a truism, I have been told, that plastic is hard to sanitize, especially inside any scratches in the inside surface. It has been a major effort, after every brewing session, to _not_ place all of my paraphernalia inside my plastic mega-container, which naturally would hold everything very nicely. But I've resisted the temptation. Despite this, I _still_ don't use the plastic vat for anything but short periods of exposure, and often leave a powerful bleach solution within it with the lid on tight, for weeks, when not in use. I use it as a temporary container for inducing hot breaks before racking, as well as an intermediate holding place while adding corn sugar before bottling, but _never_ for long periods of time ( IE, over an hour ). "Any ideas on what I am doing wrong? I'm getting very frustrated! Should I throw out my plastic primary and get another glass carboy?" Don't throw it out but _do_ invest in a second glass carboy, it's not a waste of money, IMHO. "Date: Mon, 8 Mar 93 09:33:33 -0800 From: pascal at netcom.com (Richard Childers) Subject: Marin, Bicycles, and the Marin Brewery "The route is pretty straightforward ... down to Sausalito, along the bike path, under 101, across Blithedale in Mill Valley, right at the school, then along Lomita to 101, right, onto the bike path paralleling 101, ..." ^^^^^ Um, that was a left, FEI. - -- richard "It is obligatory, within the limits of capability, to commend the good and forbid evil." _Kitab_Adab_al-Muridin_, by Suhrawardi richard childers pascal at netcom.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 93 08:31:14 MST From: pyle at intellistor.com (Norm Pyle) Subject: Celis Substitute? Michael Howe reports that he hasn't seen Celis White in Colorado. Sorry, Michael but I haven't seen it here yet, nor have I even tasted it, but I have a suggestion. Try Sunshine Wheat by the New Belgium Brewery in Fort Collins. This is the first wheat beer I've ever truthfully enjoyed. It is spiced in the Belgian tradition with coriander and orange peel, as CW is reported to be. It is just a wonderful, full bodied wheat beer with some very interesting flavor components. I'd like to try CW as a comparison, but until I find in our neck of the woods, SW will do just fine. Cheers, Norm Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 93 10:40 CST From: arf at genesis.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling) Subject: Raw Sugar >Rob (bradley at adx.adelphi.edu) >Arf repeated it in 1090, as though it was news. In 1091 Jeff Frane said "Jack is right". Is it a fact yet?) That was established in the first sentance. > Some questions: since molasses is a by-product of the refining process, what's the difference between a solution of turbinado and a solution of refined white sugar with the appropriate amount of molasses? Not much. >Could a chemist tell the difference? Could a yeast cell? Not likely. Let me caution you that the terms used in the industry are a lot like those in any other, i.e. they mean different things to different people. I am not an expert on sugar but while shooting "Orchids vs Hamburgers", we spent a day filming at a sugar refinery in Costa Rica and everything coming out of the centrifuge (turbine?) was called turbinado. Raw suguar usually means the evaporated and crystalized juice from the cane crusher. It can also mean the output of the centrifuge after most of the molasses has been removed or even a fairly light colored sugar with all the molasses removed. It is also the trade name for a Yuppie product that has nothing to do with anything. What this refinery called raw sugar were kilo sized blocks in the shape of truncated cones about 5 in in dimater at the bottom. These are available everywhere in Central America and used in a popular drink called agua dulce. One drops the block in boiling water and pulls it out when the water is appropriately sweet and it is served like tea, but of course in a glass. We brought one of these home in 1985 and needless to say, have most of it still intact. As a result of this thread, I bashed it up with a hammer and ran it through a MM and can now use it in tea. Now if Jeff will give us the nod, we can move on and wind up laser lables. >From: pyle at intellistor.com (Norm Pyle) >Second problem: my all-grain brews (3 to date) are, without exception, cloudy. Your process description leaves out any information about fermenting procedure. Given time, I have never made a beer that would not clear. I do however, always use secondary fermentation and highly recommend it as SOP for high quality beer. How long is your primary? How long is your secondary? What kind of yeast are you using? js Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1094, 03/10/93