FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Thread For Mac (Nir Navot)
  What is this stuff? (SWEENERB)
  cooler thanks (THOMASR)
  maple beer (Anthony Rossini)
  Re: 5 liter kegs (tmr1)
  Quick beer (STROUD)
  Decoction mashing (/O=vmspfhou/S=dblewis/DD.SITE=JSCPROFS/)
  grain of salt (Russ Gelinas)
  When to add brown sugar? (LYONS)
  Legality of Mailing Homebrew, etc. (Eric Wade)
  Duration of a botled beer ("Rafael Busto" )
  Re: Yeast Cultures/minimizing sediment (korz)
  off-flavor puzzle/yeast wierdness/blowoff tube/succanat ("Knight,Jonathan G")
  Hello? ("BRIAN A. AURAND")
  One of those handy little tips (Andy Rowan)
  Brewing to style, Malt Mill, Chillers (Lee=A.=Menegoni)
  Copies of M. Jackson's show (Michael Stuyt)
  Re: Samiclaus and Sam Triple Bock (Richard Akerboom)
  Free Kegging, Yeast (Jack Schmidling)
  Milling, Yeast (Jack Schmidling)
  Failure of first All grain (Jim Liddil)
  CIDER (Matthew P Jukins)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:         Fri, 02 Apr 93 13:10:30 +0300
From: Nir Navot <LCNAVOT at WEIZMANN.WEIZMANN.AC.IL>
Subject:      Thread For Mac

Has any computer-wiz out there written a Thread-like program that can run on
the Macintosh computer? Or do you know of an already existing software that can
be used to search digests and create subsets of them following a specific
keyword? Thanks in advance. Nir.

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Date: 02 Apr 1993 04:26:10 -0600 (CST)
From: SWEENERB at memstvx1.memst.edu
Subject: What is this stuff?

Browsing around my local self-service homebrew store I noticed a little plastic
bag of powder labeled HEADING AGENT from Crosby & Baker of Westport, MA. Does 
anyone know exactly what this substance is? Miller in his CHofHB writes of a 
heading compound called polypropylene aginate but he recommends using 1
tablespoon per 5 gallons, whereas the Crosby and Baker product called for 1/2
teaspoon per 5 gallons--different by about a factor of 6. Sign me,
Just curious.
 
Bob Sweeney - SWEENERB at MSUVX1.MEMST.EDU|  The first rule of statistics:
Memphis State University               |  If you torture your data long enough,
Status: Permanent Student              |  they'll confess.
(901) MSU-4210                         |
_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-

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Date: Fri, 2 Apr 93 12:59:48 MET DST
From: THOMASR at EZRZ1.vmsmail.ethz.ch
Subject: cooler thanks

hello all.
thanks for all the info on immesion cooler construction.
rob thomas.

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Date: Fri, 2 Apr 93 07:28:47 EST
From: rossini at hsph.harvard.edu (Anthony Rossini)
Subject: maple beer

>>>>> John Edens <johne at sa-htn.valmet.com> writes:

	John> Has anyone out there made a beer using maple syurp as an
	John> adjunct like Papazian describes? If so, how did it come out
	John> and how much did you use?

Well, I've got a batch in the secondary (6.25lbs M&F amber malt,
** 3 LBS ** grade B maple syrup (gotten at a local food co-op, approx $3/lb
so comparable to malt), probably too much hops).  I was going to report on
it after bottling, tasting, but thought I'd comment now.  The one problem
with my batch is hops.  Chinook, for that matter.  I've tended just to try
new things arbitrarily (if I want  to drink what I expect, I'll head to the 
local pub or beer store, THANK YOU.) and this might be my first major
mistake.  Maple doesn't seem to bitter well (i.e. take to strong hopping)
very well at a young age.  Of course, cutting back on the hops, or using a
normal amount of hops would probably result in a taste of maple, malt and
hops.

Last I checked (during transfer to the secondary) it smelled like 1/2 beer,
1/2 pancake breakfast, tasted like beer with a taste (not just a hint) of
maple, especially once you knew what to taste for (I missed it on the first
sip, and wondered how that happened on the later sips).  The aftertaste was
something to be missed, though, and that had to do with the hops.  

Well, maybe next time...

 -tony

- --
Anthony Rossini	- grad student/statistician/hacker
rossini at biostat.harvard.edu
Department of Biostatistics, Harvard School of Public Health
677 Huntington Ave, Boston MA 02115  617-432-1056

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Date: Fri, 2 Apr 93 09:31 EST
From: tmr1 at hotlg.att.com
Subject: Re: 5 liter kegs

R. Adamson (delphi.com) mentions using 5 liter kegs for home brewing.

I have 2 questions for him:

1)  What do you do with the original bung that gets pushed inside the
keg when it is tapped?  Do you leave it there?  Can you get it out?
Will it affect the taste of the beer?

2)  Where do you get new bungs to seal the kegs for home brewing?
Can a rubber stopper be used?  What holds it in place after the
CO2 pressure starts to build up?  If you use exact replacements,
won't the keg start to fill up with used bungs each time it is
tapped?

I have a foreign-made 5 liter tapper that uses a hand pump on top
for pressure.  It works very well for this type of keg.  If I were
to use it for home brew, I might cut the central stem 1/2" to 1"
short so it wouldn't go all the way to the bottom and suck up
yeast sediment.

                                                Tom Romalewski

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Date: 02 Apr 1993 11:30:38 -0500 (EST)
From: STROUD%GAIA at leia.polaroid.com
Subject: Quick beer

>Many many brewpubs making ales require 11 days from brewday to the
>first tapping.  I have tasted many 11 day beers that were fine.
>
>Jim Busch 

The brewer at the Cambridge Brewing Co. (Cambridge, MA) has told me that some 
of their ales go from the grain to the glass in 7 days.  This is partially due 
to lack of storage capacity as well as robust sales.  It is amazing what a
healthy fermentation, filtration, and forced carbonation can do!

Although one could argue that more aging may be beneficial to the final 
product, the CBC's beers are quite drinkable.

Steve

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Date: Fri, 2 Apr 93 08:55 PST
From: /O=vmspfhou/S=dblewis/DD.SITE=JSCPROFS/ at NASAmail.nasa.gov
Subject: Decoction mashing


***************************** PROFS Note *****************************
 From: DBLEWIS --VMSPFHOU            Date and time  04/02/93 10:58:24
 To: POSTMAN --NASAMAIL

 FROM: Dennis B. Lewis<dblewis at jscprofs.nasa.gov>
 SUBJECT: Decoction mashing

 I've noticed that I'm not the only person confused by decoction mashing. It
 seems like a lot of screwing around just to increase yield. Personally, I'd
 rather just add another pound or so of grist and not worry about it. Are there
 other benefits to decoction mashing? Clearer wort/green beer/finish product?

 Noonan says to remove "the heaviest third" of the mash. I suppose that does
 not include any grains since you will eventually boil it. This is really hard
 to do for those of us who mash in a pot on the stove instead of in a Gott
 cooler. Anyway, his directions are "marginal" (I'm being nice) in the
 decoction specifics.

 At any rate, I'm very happy with multi-rest infusion mashes and the decoction
 stuff is simply a curiousity. Maybe I'll try it if I have an entire Saturday
 to blow on it.

 Dennis B. Lewis  x39145
 Payload Operations/DH65


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Date:    Fri, 2 Apr 1993 12:34:22 -0500 (EST)
From: R_GELINAS at UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas)
Subject: grain of salt

  Hey Roy R., cut the sh*t about homosexuality and AIDS.  It's got nothing
to do with brewing.  All that tag line does (besides invoke flames) is
to call into question your judgement.  As such, I would suggest that any
King Cooker owners think twice before following Roy's reworking of the
burner.

Russ G.


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Date: Fri, 2 Apr 93 11:14 EST
From: LYONS at adc1.adc.ray.com
Subject: When to add brown sugar?

In Dave Line's book, Brewing Beers Like Those You Buy, he gives 
directions for making an extract version of Fuller's ESB.  In his 
directions he states that the brown sugar should be added to warm 
water and then added to the cooling wort (after boiling).  I have 
always thought that any sugars should be added along with the 
malt.  Is anyone aware of any advantages to adding brown sugar 
after the boil?

Chris,
LYONS at ADC1.ADC.RAY.COM

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Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1993 09:18:13 -0800 (PST)
From: Eric Wade <ericwade at CLASS.ORG>
Subject: Legality of Mailing Homebrew, etc.

Troy Howard <troy at scubed.com> questions how his wine club and BOTM clubs
can mail "taxable" products given the postal regs I quoted.  (Sorry all, I
am a bit novice at this and know not how to include just the portion of the
HBD I wish to respond to w/o including the whole HBD in my reply, advice
by e-mail would be appreciated).

My suspicion is that these clubs probably pay their taxes before mailing,
once paid, the product is no longer subject to taxation and should
therefore pass the postal service's scrutiny.  BTW, the entry instructions
for the AHA Nationals state that mailing homebrew IS illegal and that other
shippers (e.g. UPS) may refuse to ship if they know that you are shipping
alcohol. I had an experience with UPS with my very first order of supplies from
Great Fermentations of Santa Rosa, The Beverage People.  UPS had no
problem carrying the shipment but wouldn't leave it since I was not home. 
They explained that they can't leave alcoholic beverages on the doorstep. 
I convinced them it was only supplies and not alcohol (yet), and I've
since had all my supplies shipped to my work address.

So, the upshot of all this?  If you wan't to battle the postal service in
light of AHA's warning and others' experiences, I've given you the results
of my research.  Me?  I'll probably use UPS or find out if I can deliver
personally to Anchor since I work in SF.

Found in "The Monthly", an East Bay advertising freebie, in an article on
local beery spots:  Why is American beer (lets assume Schludwillers) like
making love in a canoe?  Because they're both f*ck*ng close to water:-)>.

- --Eric <ericwade at class.org>





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Date:     2 Apr 93 14:15:44 EST
From: "Rafael Busto" <SUPERVISOR at bnk2.bnkst.edu>
Subject:  Duration of a botled beer

 As a beginner I'd like to ask a probably FAQ. Once the beer is
 bottled, How many weeks can I keep the beer (no preservatives, no
 pasteurization) before it gets undrinkable?

 Thanks in advance

- --Rafael Busto--
Computer Center at Bank Street College of Education, New York, NY
rafael at bnk2.bnkst.edu

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Date: Fri, 2 Apr 93 12:55 CST
From: korz at iepubj.att.com
Subject: Re: Yeast Cultures/minimizing sediment

William writes:
>  I don't get isolated colonines on my plates, rather one big long smear
>  of yeast where I've dragged the innoculating loop.  How can I innoculate
>  so I get isolated colonies?  I suppose I could dilute by yeast sorce
>  (usu bottle dregs or secondary dregs) but that add just another
>  contamination risk.

Streak a third of the plate, flame the loop, streak the second third of
the plate after dragging through the path on the first third, flame again
and repeat on the final third, dragging through the second third.
>
>  I understand some yeast cultures are actually combinations of several
>  strains (eg whitbread).  Will I see all three of the whitbread strains
>  as different looking colonies?  Do I have to culture each of the strains
>  seperately?  What about yeast from Trappist ale which I understand
>  actually contain some bacteria important to the flavor produced?

I don't know about the Whitbread, but only one Trappist ale I that I know
of has a bacterial component and that's Orval -- you may be thinking of
Lambiks which indeed contain a long list of microbes.

**********************
Thomas writes:
>the bottom of the bottle. I used to use a primary and secondary
>fermenter, but now I use just one ordinary pail with a lid and
>airlock, and I get better results. The beer mix I use is John Bull
>Pilsner Light. I don't know if you can get this type in the U.S.A.,
>but it makes a beer that tastes better than Labatts Blue. Do any of
>you more experienced beer makers know any tips on getting less
>sediment on the bottom of the bottle?

If you let the beer sit in the fermenters longer, more of the yeast will
sink to the bottom.  (You should go back to using a secondary if you
plan to let it sit in the fermenter for over 2 or 3 weeks.)  This will
minimize the sediment in the bottle, but not eliminate it.

Al.

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Date: Fri, 2 Apr 93 13:51:19 cdt
From: "Knight,Jonathan G" <KNIGHTJ at AC.GRIN.EDU>
Subject: off-flavor puzzle/yeast wierdness/blowoff tube/succanat


Thanks to the folks who responded to my queries about off-flavors in two out 
of three batches made with the same yeast.  I'm going to assume that I picked 
up an infection while racking batch one to secondary, which was then 
perpetuated when reusing the yeast from the secondary for batch three.  I 
don't suspect my plastic tubing at this point because batch two, made with 
yeast from batch one primary, is fine - and the same tubing waould have been 
used to rack, bottle, etc.  Bottle conditioning seems to be improving things, 
however.  Regarding plastic tubing, how often do people replace it?  I'm 
assuming once a year is fine, but does anyone replace more often?

Now on to my next adventure.  I'm making a pale ale (actually it's making 
itself right now) with some Wyeast 1056 "American" right out of the packet 
via a DME starter solution.  On the sixth day it was still bubbling at about 
three per minute, but as the krausen had subsided I racked to secondary 
anyway, and tossed in the dry-hopping pellets.  Within a day or two, what did 
to my wondering eyes appear but a KRAUSEN in the secondary!  Coming up on two 
weeks now, it's still bubbling between one and two per minute.  I have made 
ales this year with American, British, Irish, and London, and I have never 
had yeast behave in this manner (including a previous "American" two 
batches)!!  My basement has been around 60-62 F. all winter, but this is the 
first time I have had such a slow fermentation.  What should I do (besides of 
course RDWHAH)?

Joel Birkland asked about 1" I.D. plastic tubing.  I got mine at True Value.  
They'll cut it to size and it doesn't cost much.   While we're on the subject 
of blowoff tubes, I've seen several posts regarding the difficulty of 
cleaning them.  My question is, what's the big deal?  The only beer that 
comes in contact with it is what's being "blown off" - so as long as the tube 
is dry, that is, nothing dripping into your beer when you first attach the 
tube, why should it matter that you didn't get it squeaky clean after the 
last batch?

Finally, for any Eastern Iowa brewers who were as interested as was I in the 
recent thread on brown sugar alternatives, I can report that I found 
"Succanat" at the New Pioneer Co-op in Iowa City.  It's a little pricey at 
five & change for a two-pound can (they also have Turbinado for <$1/lb.) but 
I plan to try it out.  If I like it a lot, would anyone in New England be 
willing to mail me a bunch "in bulk" from Bread and Circus?


Jonathan Knight
Grinnell, Iowa

Thought for the day: In any organization there will always be one person who 
knows what is going on.  This person must be fired.

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Date: 02 Apr 1993 12:31:12 GMT
From: "BRIAN A. AURAND" <ceco!CWEMAIL!E#AURAN at uunet.UU.NET>
Subject: Hello?

Who is this?


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Date: Fri, 2 Apr 93 16:51:29 EST
From: rowan at ocean.rutgers.edu (Andy Rowan)
Subject: One of those handy little tips

OK, this one isn't a major "aha!", but...

When you're pouring all that sanitizing solution out of the carboy,
if you shove the racking tube in there, air can enter through it
and the stuff just pours right out instead of glug-glug-glugging
and splashing all over the place.

Just one of those things that dawned on me after an evening of
bottling and RDWHAHB'ing...

========================================
| Andy Rowan                           |
| Cook College Remote Sensing Center   |
| Rutgers University, New Brunswick NJ |
| rowan at ocean.rutgers.edu              |
========================================

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Date: Fri,  2 Apr 93 17:49:24 EST
From: Lee=A.=Menegoni at nectech.com
Subject: Brewing to style, Malt Mill, Chillers

Brewing to Style: 
  Having been a brewer for 3 years I recently have paid more attention to
"brewing to style" and have migrated away from "nikebrau", Just Brew It.
This switch in brewing philosophy coincides with a change in method, partial
mash to all grain [insert flames and name calling here].  My feeling is in
order for me to produce beers with flavor profiles that I would like I must
be able to control my process.  A good way to validate my process is to
attempt to brew to a certain benchmark/style and have my results reviewed by
certified tasters which generally means some sort of competition.  One of the
finest homebrews I have had was an attempt at one style, a Bier de Garde,
which turned out to be an excellent Extra Special Bitter.  The color was
too dark, the hopping was incorrect and it lacked the body and sweetness
of a Bier de Garde.  It still was a great beer.

Malt Mill:  I would concur with Jim Dipalma on his review.  Having participated
in its use my observations:  Cleaning- grind a couple pounds of grain, then 
brush off the rollers 3 minutes max.  Adjust for proper crush about 5 minutes.
We ground, excuse me , crushed 10 lbs of grain in about 5 minutes.  I too
had the fastest clearing, clearest run off of any batch I brewed. The unit is
not fragile.  It is well designed, place it over a 5 gallon bucket and crush.
I want to sell my Corona, Email if interested  lmenegon at necis.ma.nec.com 

Immersion wort chillers:  I would be more concerned about how long I could make
it.  Mine is made from 3/8" OD soft copper tubing which I wrapped around a 
soda keg to make a coil.  I Used about 35 feet  of tubing.  I filled my brew
pot with 6 gallons of water, measured the height and coiled until I exceeded
that height.  I allowed for the in an out tubing to rise out and over the pot
to a point 6" below the top to prevent water getting in the wort in the event
of a leak.  50 feet of 3/8' soft copper was $22 the 3/8 to hose male connection
was about $3. I clamped old plastic tubing on the output end total, cost $25.
With the extra tubing I am making a manifold for my lauter tun.


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Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1993 17:15:28 -0800 (PST)
From: Michael Stuyt <klootzak at u.washington.edu>
Subject: Copies of M. Jackson's show


While on vacation in Rotterdam this spring break, I saw something about a
show called "Beer Hunt" (or something like that) hosted by Michael
Jackson.  It was on the British Discovery Channel.  Normally, I do not
watch television, so I was wondering if any one knows if its brodcast here
in the States or maybe somebody has copies on tape.

I am also interested if perhaps any one in the Seattle area would be
interested in forming a brew-club here at the U of W.

thank you,

M. Abraham Vijfvinkel-Stuijt




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Date: Fri, 2 Apr 93 09:14:25 EST
From: boomer at sylsoft.com (Richard Akerboom)
Subject: Re: Samiclaus and Sam Triple Bock


In Regards to your letter <9304020800.AA13213 at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com>:
> Subject: "Samiclaus" aka strongest beer in world, for now?
> 
[deleted]
> During the tour, they bragged about being in the process of
> developing a "Triple Bock", apparently it is Jim Koch's goal 
> to get the world record for the highest alcohol content in a
> commercialized "malt beverage".

I had some of this at the Sunset Grill in Boston. It is very strong
and I thought nicely done. The bartender (normally very well informed
at the sunset) claimed 14% alcohol. I found it hard to believe that
Sam had brewed something stronger than Samiclaus and figured that
14% was by volume. I don't have my Jackson's Pocket Guide here, but
Samiclaus is 13.x% alcohol by weight, so it would be more than 14%
by volume.

I would be interested in hearing from anyone who had some concrete
knowledge about the Sam Triple Bock, such as original and final gravity and
the alcohol content (and whether is by wt. or vol.).

Rich

ps-Thanks to those who pointed me back to Superior Products

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard Akerboom       Domain: boomer at sylsoft.com or akerboom at dartmouth.edu
Sylvan Software          uucp: dartvax!sylsoft!boomer
Mechanic St.            Phone: 802-649-2231
P. O. Box 566             FAX: 802-649-2238
Norwich, VT 05055 USA 

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Date: Sat, 3 Apr 93 07:46 CST
From: arf at genesis.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Free Kegging, Yeast

 
 >From: tony at spss.com (Tony Babinec)
 
 >I recommend using the pressure cooker method to create sterile
 starter worts.  Following Dave Miller's book, add 3 pounds of light
 dry malt extract to about 2.5 gallons of water to create 3 gallons
 of wort......  It takes two cooking "cycles," as all jars won't fit in the 
 cooker.  
 
 Wouldn't it be simpler just to cut the recipe in half?
 
 >From: "Jim Ellingson" <jimme at pi28.arc.umn.edu>
 >Subject: WARNING Re:  Almost Free Kegging
 
 >Using a quarter cup would give a pressure of around 50 psi but I still
 don't think it's a very good idea.
 
 >Pressure vessels are thick, heavy and expensive for a reason.  The
 pressurized gas which they hold contains an enormous amount of
 potential energy.
 
 Thanks for the envelop engineering.  In spite of your cautions, it still 
 seems that it is a workable system if one is careful and does not work in the 
 blind, i.e. monitor the pressure with a gauge.  If a quarter cup produces 50 
 psi in an empty keg, it would seem to be enough to carbonate a 5 gallon batch 
 and dispense it with pressure to spare.  Once the beer is carbonated, the 
 pressue could be relieved down to working pressure and I assume there would 
 be enough to despense an equal volume of beer.
 
 It would seem prudent, however to add a pressure relief valve in case things 
 don't work out as planned.
 
 >From: "Dean Roy"  <DEAN at alpha.uwindsor.ca>
 >Subject:      Yeast Labs yeast cultures
  
   > (3) The cultures come in clear plastic tubes. No inner pouch or anything
         similiar to burst. Do I simply dump the contents of the tube into a
         starter?
 
 Have no idea about the rest of your questions but there are two ways to use 
 the tube cultures.  Come to think of it, you did not say whether they are on 
 agar or just in a liquid medium.
 
 If the latter, they are probably intended to be poured into a starter wort 
 for one time use.
 
 If on agar, you can use them to start new cultures on slants and keep the 
 original as your pure culture.  If you just want to start a batch with it, 
 the best way is to pour enough sterile wort in the tube to cover the yeast 
 and incubate it for 24 hours than use this liquid to start your starter.
 
 The article I just posted on yeast culture details how you can turn one of 
 those tubes in a lifetime supply of yeast.
 
 >From: korz at iepubj.att.com
 >I recommend that you not use wort to rehydrate dry yeast -- you are not only
 stressing the yeast, but tempting the remaining live ones to produce off
 flavors. 
 
 I have accepted the above on faith but have just read Fix's "Principles of 
 Brewing Science", (a most humbling experience) and I now wonder if we are on 
 the wrong tack.  If George could review the following paragraph and comment 
 on whether or not it has any relevance to rehydrating dry yeast....
 
 From P 170.....
 
 "As a general rule, yeast stored for any length of time should be "fed" with 
 fresh sterile wort to ensure that the storage medium has adequate 
 yeast-assimilable sugars and amino acids.  Storage under a water cover should 
 be avoided not only because water lacks nutrients, but because of the adverse 
 osmotic pressures it would create."
 
 I presume that dried yeast includes whatever is left of the 
 "yeast-assimilable sugars and amino acids" at the time of drying.  I also 
 presume that they would be in a depleated state and adding only water would 
 create the adverse osmotic preessure above referred to.  Whereas, 
 re-hydrating it with a wort of comparable SG would not.
 
 What say, George?
 
 js

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Date: Sat, 3 Apr 93 07:47 CST
From: arf at genesis.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Milling, Yeast

 
 >From: Joe Rolfe <jdr at wang.com>
 >Subject: MaltMill review
 
 >(anyone got any hints at the correct rpm for the rollers - max thruput and
 least hassels)
 
 >on the other hand - this fellow brewer - had a hell of a time. 
 
 Not knowing who your friend is, I can not comment intellegently but to answer 
 the first question in an indirect way and wondering if it might be the same 
 person.....
 
 I received a call from someone several weeks ago who was having problems with 
 a motorized mill.  It was throwing grain all over and chewing up orings.  
 When I asked him what speed he was running at, he said he really didn't know 
 but there was a 2 in pulley on the motor and a 2 in pulley on the mill.  If 
 its a typical 1750 rpm motor, the problem is obvious.  On my personal mill, I 
 use a 10 in pulley on the mill and a 2 in on an 800 rpm motor.  That gets it 
 around 160 rpm and crushes about 5 lbs/min with little dust, noise or other 
 problems.
 
 >  i was not there when the problems came up - but the crystal ended up to 
 fine,  the pale did not feed properly and the guy had to rush out to get a 
 corona.  now mind you this is a motorized (probably too fast) with hoppers 
 above and below. 
 
 Sounds suspicious.  Why don't you have him get in touch with me?  There has 
 got to be a better solution than what he did :)
 
 Having said that, I started receiving malt from Minnesota Malting a few 
 months ago that would not feed properly on the fixed mill which was designed 
 using the same malt and I was totally frustrated till I had a few 
 conversations with the maltster.
 
 Turns out that the lot was one that did not meet commercial specs for size 
 and they put it aside for homebrewers assuming we would not care.  He said 
 that there was less than a 5% chance of this kind of stuff getting out 
 normally, whatever that was supposed to mean.
 
 When I asked why mega brewers care, with fancy adjustable mills and he said 
 because they do not want to adjust them.  They just want to run forever.
 
 It is interesting to note that the Belgian malt is even larger the the MM 
 malt but feed without difficulty.  It appears to me that the real problem is 
 not just the size but the finish or texture of the husk.  The MM stuff was 
 very smooth and shiny while the Belgian is coarse and rough.   As the mill 
 relies on the grooves in the roller to grab the grain, the smoother the husk 
 the more likely the grain will roll around for a while.
 
 On a motorized mill, if enough of them roll around, they will fill up the 
 space and nothing gets done.  With a hand crank, this is rarely a problem 
 because of the randomness of starting and stopping plus the ability to back 
 up a bit to clear jams.
 
 The only other problem I know of is someone who came up with some Engl.... 
 sorry Brittish malt that was so small, it passed right through.  After 
 running this one down, it also turned out to be reject malt.
 
 >anyway from my experience and his, if you get one get the adjustable one.
 
 IF you have thoughts of motorizing it.
 
 >From: "William A Kitch" <kitchwa at bongo.cc.utexas.edu>
 >Subject: YEAST CULTURES
  
 > I don't get isolated colonines on my plates, rather one big long smear
   of yeast where I've dragged the innoculating loop.  How can I innoculate
   so I get isolated colonies?
 
 The key is more dilution.  After you think it is dilute enough, give it 
 another 10:1.  Here is a standard streaking sequence....
 
 
              1.....2......3......4.......5.......>
                    |      |      |       |
              6...................................>
                    |      |      |       |
              7...................................>
                    |      |      |       |
              8...................................>
                    |      |      |       |
                    \/     \/     \/      \/
 
 After inoculating your wire, you start at 1 and by the time you get to
 the end of 8 you should have some single colonies if you start with  a dilute 
 enough sample.
 
 To give you an idea of how littlel you need, I recently did a Wyeast and I 
 dipped my wire into the packet and followed the above on two petri dishes in 
 sequence and only got three isolated colonies on the second one.
 
 When I have done dry yeast, I would drop one granule into a test tube of 
 sterile water and got about the right dilution.
 
 >  I understand some yeast cultures are actually combinations of several
   strains (eg whitbread).  Will I see all three of the whitbread strains
   as different looking colonies? 
 
 I tried Whitbread  dry about 6 months ago and found no clue as to what was 
 what.  It all looked the same and concluded that either it was all the same 
 or telling the difference was beyond my patience.  I didn't particularly like 
 the beer it made but that could be because I don't like it or because one or 
 more of the necessary strains were missing.
 
  > I've heard that even if I get a good pure culture on a slant
   it will mutate and I can only use yeast from a given slant for a few
   months?  Is this true?
 
 If you only use the original slant to innoculate others, it should be good 
 for years or until you contaminate it in the process.
 
 >  Is there a way to identify mutatants besides   brewing a batch an looking 
 for strange behavior such as low final s.g?
 
 That's about it.
 
  > got a pretty decent optical microscope if I can figure out what box it's
   in.  Any suggestions on preparing a sample for viewing?
 
 Put a dilute drop of yeast on a slide, add a cover slip and work your way up
 to the higest magnification you have.  You need 1000X, oil emersion to see 
 any detail.
 
 >Can I recognize mutations this way?
 
 No chance.  You will be able to identify certain wild yeasts and bacteria and 
 have a lot of fun but won't solve any real problems in the process.  
 Unfortunately, Peterson hasn't come out with a "Field Guide to Yeast" for 
 pretty obvious reasons.
 
 js
 
 

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Date:    Sat, 3 Apr 1993 22:19:05 -0700 (MST)
From: JLIDDIL at AZCC.Arizona.EDU (Jim Liddil)
Subject: Failure of first All grain

Made a beer today with the following ingredients

3lbs belgain pilsner malt

4 pounds belgian pale ale malt

8 ounces caravienne

Mashed in 2 gallons of distilled water at ~154 for 1.25 hours at which time the
iodine test was negative.  The pH of mash was around 5.2.  Used a Zapap type
lauter tun with grain bag.  Recirculated about 0.5 gallons.  Used distilled
water for sparging.  Placed a pie plate on top of grain bed and added water at
about 165.  Also mashed out at 170.  Sparged till gravity was 1.008 .Ph of run
off was still around 5.5.  Collected about 7 gallons of wort.  Gravity after
boiling down to about 6 gallons was only 1.028.  Where did I go wrong?  If the
answer is perfectly obviuos please e-mail me rather than waste bandwidth here.

Jim Liddil

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Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1993 15:36:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: Matthew P Jukins <mpj at kepler.unh.edu>
Subject: CIDER



Hello all!  My name is Matt and this is my very first post to this list,
so I just thought I'd say hello.  :)

Well, my first question is this:  My friends and I are interested in making
cider, but don't know the first thing about where to start.  If possible,
we would like some tips, recipes, etc...  anything would help.  Please 
mail me at: mpj at kepler.unh.edu

thanks for your bandwidth :)

 -matt


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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1112, 04/05/93