FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Glatt Machining (boskoduck)
  Recipe-Honey Creek Summer Wheat (mustbkept)
  re: Wort Aeration (Timothy J. Dalton)
  PU yeast (darrylri)
  RE:Source for pumps wanted (Wayde Nie)
  Glatt Machining (Patrick Sobalvarro)
  Re: Source for pumps wanted (Jeff Berton)
  Weihenstephan distribution (Todd Gierman)
  AERATION (Jack Schmidling)
  tannins (Rich Ryan)
  Blueberry Beer Recipe Request (drose)
  Re: Cream Stout (korz)
  Any Thimbleberry Ale/Mead Recipes? (Bob LaGesse)
  Job Posting (STROUD)
  CaCl2 source ("Dennis Lewis" )
  The word "lauter" ("Dennis Lewis" )
  WORT AERATION (Jim Cave)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Aug 93 22:18:33 EDT
From: boskoduck at aol.com
Subject: Glatt Machining

Those of us who were fortunate enough to be at the AHA National in Portland
this year got to see an impressive looking new malt mill made by the company
named in the subject line.  When I got home I immediately ordered one.

Well, that was the 3rd of August.  Today, the 23rd, I got a telephone call
from the owner of Glatt Machining.  He called from Oregom - I live in New
Hampshire - to tell me that he was behind in his orders and would have my
mill out to me by the end of the week.  He said that the response to his mill
has been so good that he can't keep manufacturing fast enough.  

He also asked me if I wasa on the internet.  When I said that I had access to
internet mail he asked me to tell "all those internet people" that he was
running behind in filling orders, but would get them out as soon as he can. 
I figured that the internet people must be the HBD.
Having done that, I've made good on my promise.  

As far as the mill is concerned, its an all metal contruction, and has two
grooved rollers.  It's adjustable and the hopper holds about 2.5 lbs of
grain.  The real surprise is that it's only US$80 per mill plus S&H.  I was
impressed.

Naturally, I have no commercial connection with Glatt Machining or anything
like that, this is meant just as general info.

Nastrovia
 -julian zelazny

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Date: Tue, 24 Aug 93 02:00:54 EDT
From: mustbkept at aol.com
Subject: Recipe-Honey Creek Summer Wheat

                                                 Honey Creek Summer Wheat

Source: Kerwin Manuel (KerwinM at aol.com)

Ingredients:

		7.0 lbs Wheat Malt Extract (60/40)
		1/2 lb  Crystal Malt
		1/8 lb  Chocolate or Black Patent (your preference)
		1.0 lb  Clover Honey (my preference)
		1/2 tsp Gypsum (adjust +/- for your water)
		1.0 oz  Tettnanger for 60min
		1/2 oz  Hallertau Hersbrucker for 30min
		1/2 tsp Irish Moss for 10min
		1/2 oz  Tettnanger-Secondary Dry Hop	
		1/2 oz  Hallertau -Secondary Dry Hop
		1-2 pkg Ale Yeast (Wiezen Yeast if you prefer)
		
Procedure:

Steep crystal and chocolate malts for 30 minutes in 1.5 gals of 150 degree F
water. Sparge into brew pot and add malt extract, honey, gypsum and enough 
water to bring volume to 3 gallons. Bring to a boil and add 1 oz Tettnanger,
continue boil & 30 minutes later add 1/2 oz of Hallertau, still boiling 20 
minutes later (50 minutes into the boil) add 1/2 tsp of Irish Moss for final
10 minutes.  Total boiling time is 60 min. Pour wort into primary fermenter
filled with 2 gallons of cold water (splashing hot wort into cold water to 
aerate).  Pitch yeast when temperature is within range, 70-80 degrees F.  
5-7 days in the primary and after fermentation has slowed, transfer to the 
secondary fermenter.  Add dry hops (bagged or free floating) to secondary 
(I prefer to use a bag..easier to clean-up) and complete fermentation for 4
weeks.  3/4 to 7/8 cup of corn sugar for priming and bottle.  Carbonation
should be ready after at least 5 days (I was anxious to try this batch!)

Comments:

Very smooth, good mouth feel.  Slightly estery. Banana or fruit aroma?
I'll use a real wheat yeast next time. Clear, copper color.  OK head 
retention and color.  Very crisp, clean hop bouquet/aroma.  Slightly sweet,
smooth going down.  Alcoholic taste, too much? Small, delicate bubbles. 
All disclaimers apply...after all, I'm judging my own creation !  Actually, 
several friends (and a couple of strangers) have told me they really like 
this one.  I apologize if this recipe seems too explicit for some of you 
experienced types...but I remember what it was like just starting out...
recipes or instructions with only partial information...phooey !


Specifics:

Original Gravity:Sorry..didn't take any readings
Final Gravity:
Primary Ferment: 5-7 days
Seconday Ferment: 4 weeks
Type of Fermenter: Plastic
Temp of Ferment: 70-76 degrees F

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Date: Tue, 24 Aug 93 08:00:55 -0400
From: Timothy J. Dalton <dalton at mtl.mit.edu>
Subject: re: Wort Aeration

"William A Kitch" <kitchwa at bongo.cc.utexas.edu> wrote:

>  3)  100% air saturation is about 20% oxygen saturation.  (Lucky for
>      us--or maybe it's not luck!  Could it be Devine intervention?)

In general, neglecting minor components, air is about
79% Nitrogen and 21% Oxygen.  No devine intervention here.

	Tim

- ----
Timothy J. Dalton                                   tjdalton at mit.edu
MIT, Dept. of Chemical Engineering, Materials Etching Technology Lab

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Date: Tue Aug 24 07:27:30 1993
From: darrylri at microsoft.com
Subject: PU yeast

korz at iepubj.att.com writes:
> Jack writes:
> >Two rumors I would like verified here....
> 
> >The first is the blending of (4) different beers from (4) different yeasts by
> >PU.  This was reported in an article I just read but do not recall where.
> >Nothing of this sort was reported by Daryl Richman from his visit to the
> >brewery.
> 
> I will try to find my source for this and post, but from my memory, it's
> not anything to do with blending of four beer made from four yeasts, rather
> PU was (or maybe still is) brewed with a mixed strain.  Again, from memory,
> someone, several years ago, got a hold of the PU production yeast and from
> it they isolated four different yeasts, which they called A, B, C and D.
> I believe that they made test batches and the B and D strains were the most
> Pilsner Urquell-like.

In my report on the Pilsner Urquell brewery, I noted that they 
were using three yeasts identified as D, H, and W.  I believe 
that Miller has reported four strains in use and Jackson, 5. 

I was explicitly told that the beer from each yeast is kept 
separate until the yeast is cropped, and then the beer is 
blended by taste. 

I have speculated on this before;  I believe that there is only 
one strain in use, but it has a tendency to mutate.  In order to 
avoid problems, the PU brewery grows up a pitching slurry and 
labels it with a letter (for example, 'A').  They brew beer from 
this yeast and attempt to maintain it as if it were a separate 
strain in the brewery during successive repitchings. 

At some fixed interval, they grow up another batch of yeast 
('B') and begin brewing with it, also.  The 'A' yeast eventually 
mutates, or it becomes infected, and the brewers are able to 
detect it while it isn't very severe.  They can blend off the 
results (cutting the flavor contribution to well under the taste 
threshold, perhaps a third to a fifth of the level at which they 
were able to detect it) and dispose of that batch of yeast. As 
this happens somewhat unpredictably, the distribution of letters 
assigned to successive yeast batches, and the number of batches 
in use, varies. 

		--Darryl Richman


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Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1993 10:53:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: Wayde Nie <u9106857 at mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca>
Subject: RE:Source for pumps wanted

On Mon, 23 Aug 1993, Eric Wade Said: 

>I'd be interested any any sources and recommendations for pumps to move
both wort and hot water....

	Well this isn't exactly a recommendation but maybe it could turn 
into a source... 
	
	Has anyone ever looked into using a dishwasher pump? (or maybe even
a washing machine pump?) I would think that since it was designed to move
hot water, soap, detergents and bleach (the washer anyways) around that it
could probably handle wort/beer as well. A dishwasher pump has the added 
bonus of being meant for handling dishes someone will eat off of. (hopefully
this means that it's not going to pass on nasties to our beer)
	
	As far as availability, there are used appliance stores everywhere 
and most will sell salvaged parts.

                                      \\\
                                     (o o)
- ---------------------------------ooO--(*)--Ooo--------------------------------
                  Wayde Nie, u9106857 at McMail.CIS.McMaster.CA

	Tact: The ability to tell someone to go straight to hell, and
		have them go merrily on their way. 
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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Date: Tue, 24 Aug 93 11:01:12 EDT
From: pgs at ai.mit.edu (Patrick Sobalvarro)
Subject: Glatt Machining

   Date: Mon, 23 Aug 93 22:18:33 EDT
   From: boskoduck at aol.com
   Subject: Glatt Machining

   ...Well, that was the 3rd of August.  Today, the 23rd, I got a
   telephone call from the owner of Glatt Machining.  He called from
   Oregom - I live in New Hampshire - to tell me that he was behind in
   his orders and would have my mill out to me by the end of the week.
   He said that the response to his mill has been so good that he
   can't keep manufacturing fast enough.

Just thought I'd mention that mine arrived this past Friday, so they
certainly are being shipped, however slowly.  I was not in Portland,
so this was my first look at the mill, and it does seem quite
well-made.

I am in the midst of moving, so most of what I own is in boxes and I
can't brew.  But the Boston Wort Processors will be informally
evaluating the Glatt and several other mills in our upcoming Klassic
Klub Krush-off in about two weeks.  I say "informally" because we
aren't prepared, for example, to run the crushed grain through screens
of graduated fineness, but we will take a close look at the crush and
the quality of construction and ease of use of the mills.

 -P.

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Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1993 11:20:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: jeff344 at voodoo.lerc.nasa.gov (Jeff Berton)
Subject: Re: Source for pumps wanted

For my recently operational RIMS, I'm using a March Manufacturing seal-less
magnetic drive pump, model MDX-1/2.  The magnetic drive allows seal-less
construction and prevents the fluid from contacting the mechanical 
hardware and lubricants.  The materials in contact with the fluid are
food-safe plastics, ceramic, and stainless steel and can withstand a
reported 190 F.  It has 1/2 inch barbed ports for plastic tubing hookups.
It operates on household current at 1/50 HP and can move 5.5 gpm at
zero head, and has a maximum head of 7 feet.  A speed controller built
according to Rodney Morris' schematic in the Zymurgy Gadgets special
issue works fine.
 
For information about retailers near you, call March at 708-729-7062.  All
retailers in my area were selling this pump for about $95.  C&H Sales Company,
however, sells it for $49.50 via mail order.  C&H can be reached at 
800-325-9465.  Their catalog has many reasonably-priced items that may be
used in a RIMS.
 
Disclaimer:  No connection with March or C&H;  just a satified customer and
             a new RIMS brewer!
- --
Jeff Berton, Aeropropulsion Analysis Office, NASA Lewis Research Center
jeff344 at voodoo.lerc.nasa.gov


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Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1993 12:16:39 -0500
From: tmgierma at raphael.acpub.duke.edu (Todd Gierman)
Subject: Weihenstephan distribution



Richard Childers writes (>Date: Mon, 23 Aug 93 08:49:53 -0700,From:
pascal at netcom.com (Richard Childers),Subject: Stabilizing Cultures For
Shipment)

>I like this idea, also, but it is not a new one. 
>(I) discovered that there is a very close parallel between bread yeast, and
>beer yeast, collectors. Bread yeast collectors also trade yeast samples ...
>sourdough is a fairly common variation...
>
>Below is a method for preserving bread yeast and stabilizing them for mailing
>and long-term storage. I don't *know* that it will work for beer yeast, but
>I see no reason why not ... I don't think agar slants are a prerequisite to
>successful propogation of a genotype ... just a useful intermediate storage.
>
>> How to dry and restart a culture 

It is interesting, but if we ever do get this distribution of Weihenstephan
68 off the ground, please, please, please, don't attempt to use this as a
distribution method.  It may work for bread, but it will certainly prove
counterproductive in the propagation of any beer yeast (bread risings are
only a couple of hours and you don't care what's there, fermentations last
days, and you do).  In this case agar slants are a prerequisite to the
propagation of a pure culture, helping to maintain the integrity of the
culture, and, thus, its stability.  There will be a lot of angry HB'ers out
there who expecting a wonderful weizen, end up with something between a
lambic and pond scum instead.  The agar slants allow for the examination
and picking of individual colonies.  Many of the nasties that can spoil
hopped wort (e.g. lactobacillus) frequently fail to grow on the surface of
agar, whereas they can be carried quite well in a dried mass of yeast.  You
will end up with a really nice microfloral garden if you propagate this
way.  When somebody indicates that a culture is available, we can take some
time to establish a protocol for propagation (one that must be adhered to
at all cost).  The worst thing would be to ship people contaminated
cultures.
Todd Gierman
Dept. of Microbiology
Duke University Medical Center


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Date: Tue, 24 Aug 93 11:17 CDT
From: arf at genesis.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: AERATION

 
 >From: sc at vcc.com (Steve Casselman)
 
 > When the O2 runs out yeast go into anaerobic fermentation. During
 this time they consume sugars and water and produce CO2 and alcohols.
 At this time they stop reproducing and start budding which produces
 a long heavy chain of cells which start to drop due to their weight,
 this is called floculation.
 
 I won't argue with the overall thesis but you have the reproductive part a 
 little confused.  Budding, i.e. vegatitive propagation, is the ONLY way that 
 beer yeast reproduce in the normal fermentation environment.  The parent cell 
 forms a bud which drops off at the appropriate moment to grow up and do 
 likewise.  I doubt that reproduction ever stops completely until fermentation 
 is over but in any case, budding has nothing to do with floculation.
 
 CORRECTION....
 
 The following statement fogs my point in the comments I last made on the 
 objective of the experiment.  It was not, however part of the original 
 CONCLUSION.
 
 
 >It may seem like nitpicking to prove that aeration does not improve lag time 
 >if it is necessary anyway for good beer but nit picking is what science is 
 >all about.
 
 The objective of the experiment was to test the air pump/airstone and not 
 aeration in general.  The fact that the "non-aerated" control started at the 
 same time is interesting but can be explained by other mechanisms. 
 
 The statement would be more correct if... artificially enhanced aeration does 
 not seem to improve lag time in small batches...
 
 js
 

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Date: Tue, 24 Aug 93 12:51:41 -0400
From: Rich Ryan <rich at sc2m044.swin.oasis.gtegsc.com>
Subject: tannins

>Tom writes:
>much hotter than 170, for fear of tannins and other off-flavors being
>carried into your beer.  This is an argument for mashing in a kettle
>on the stove, or going to decoction (did I spell that right?) as opposed
>to the straight infusion method.

Can someone please explain how tannins enter the beer making process?
I've heard of wines with tannins and always thought that they had
something to do with the grapes. Do the tannins originate from the
malt?

Rich Ryan

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Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1993 13:20:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: drose at husc.harvard.edu
Subject: Blueberry Beer Recipe Request

Hey:
	Well it is getting to be brewing season for me again and I am
raring to go.  I have come into possession of 12.5 lbs of blueberries and
am interested in making a blueberry beer.  I have searched the archives
using WAIS and looked in Cat's Meow and haven't found what I am looking
for.  The most common problem is that people give the recipe and then say
"This really didn't have any discernable blueberry flavor or color." I am
looking for an all-grain recipe, maybe a wheat beer, with pronounced
flavor and color.  I picked these berries myself and I don't want to waste
all that work.  Some things I am particularly concerned about are 1)when
to add the blubes, 2) How much to add, 3)how long to ferment them, 4) How
to prepare them (ie blanching, pureeing, etc.) 5) What sort of hop rates
are appropriate (I understand that too much hops doesn't go well). 
Anyway, all information would be appreciated....
							dave.


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Date: Tue, 24 Aug 93 13:23 CDT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com
Subject: Re: Cream Stout

Anthony writes:
>1) Cream stouts have lactose added to sweeten them.  In the boil?  At
>bottling? In between?

I'm not sure if all cream stouts or all sweet stouts have lactose in them,
but since I've recently done a semi-sweet (demi-sec?) stout that turned out
quite nicely, I can offer a bit of advice.  There are several things to
keep in mind:

1. Lactose is unfermentable by conventional brewing yeast (it may be
fermentable by other yeasts, but I don't know) but I strongly suspect that
it is fermentable by Lactobacillus and/or Pediococcus bacterias, so be extra
careful with sanitation or you'll get glass grenades.

2. You can add it in the boil or boil it in some water to sanitize and add
it anytime up to bottling time, but I recommend adding it at bottling time
because you can: add 4 ounces, taste, add 4 more ounces, taste again...
You can adjust the sweetness to what you want it to be.  Remember that the
beer will taste a bit less sweet when it gains the acidity of carbonation.

3. Lactose is not very sweet.  It appears that the larger the carbohydrate
molecule, the less sweet it is.  Lactose is a pretty big sugar and therefore
not very sweet.  You will need at least 8 ounces net weight in a 5 gallon
batch to make a small difference.

4. How much?  I had a relatively sweetish stout to begin with, having added
a good 2# of various DeWolf-Cosyns crystal malts.  I ended up adding 8 ounces
(net weight) of Lactose to the 5 gallon batch and ended up with a not-too-
sweet stout that was quite good.  I wanted to avoid making a super-sweet
stout since I had just returned from the Caribbean and down there they like
their stouts so sweet (Dragon Stout, for example) you can pour them on
pancakes!  

5. Lactose sweetness is different from sweetness gained from malt.  It is
quite noticable and Brian North (a BJCP National judge) immediately pegged
my beer as containing lactose.  The obviousness of the lactose decreases as
the beer ages.

6. Black and Brown malts give your beer quite a bit of acidity, so (unless
your water is high in Carbonates -- this is why Dublin is known for stouts
and not known for it's pale ales) adding some Calcium Carbonate (a tablespoon
or two for a 5 gallon batch) would help take away some of that dark grain
sourness and help make the beer appear sweeter.

Al.

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Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1993 15:51:14 -0400 (EDT)
From: bobml at msd.measurex.com (Bob LaGesse)
Subject: Any Thimbleberry Ale/Mead Recipes?

I just got back from two wondrous weeks of vacation in the Upper Peninsula
of Michigan (i.e the Keewenaw).  One of the "fruits" of this vacation was that
I was able to pick ~10 lbs of thimbleberries while there (only grows wild,
somewhat similar to rasberries in color and flavor only richer and slightly
tarter, IMHO).  I would be greatly appreciative of any recipes that anyone
would be willing to share with me.

Thanks!
- -- 
Domain: bobml at msd.measurex.com    Bob LaGesse, Senior Engineer
  UUCP: ...!uunet!mxmsd!bobml     Measurex/Management Systems Division
 Voice: (513) 825-3931 X303       1280 Kemper Meadow Drive
   Fax: (513) 825-5393            Cincinnati, Ohio 45240, USA

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Date: 24 Aug 1993 16:45:12 -0500 (EST)
From: STROUD%GAIA at leia.polaroid.com
Subject: Job Posting

Pat Baker (of Crosby & Baker) has asked me to post the following:

**********************
Crosby & Baker is currently looking for a person to manage the microbrewery &
brewpub supply side of their business.  Their current sales in this market
segment are ~$1 million/year.

They want someone with experience in marketing and distribution.  Good people
management skills are required.  An MBA is desired, but not absolutely
necessary.

The job location will be in Westport, MA, though travel will also be involved.

C&B has hired a consultant to review all sumitted resumes.  If you would like to
be considered for the job or if you'd just like more information, contact Bob
Sleeman, FAX # 508-994-9366.

Thank you.
***********************





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Date:         24 Aug 93 16:14:35 CST
From: "Dennis Lewis" <DLEWIS%jscdh6 at jesnic.jsc.nasa.gov>
Subject:      CaCl2 source

>From Patrick Weix:

>To the gent looking for food-grade CaCl2: I doubt that you will find
>any. Luckily, most lab grade products are more pure than food grade,
>and you can get an analysis of any contaminant levels shipped with
>your purchase. A good general source for chemicals is SIGMA.

Not for most of us. I called SIGMA and told them I was looking for
pure stuff. For starters, they don't sell to individuals. Then I
mentioned that this was to be used in brewing when asked if I wanted
solid or solution.

**The person I talked to about had a cow when she realized that this
was a food-grade application.**

She didn't have any idea where to get food-grade stuff. Maybe a
pharmaceutical supply, but they wouldn't sell to individuals either.
And she was really worked up about the food thing. Personally, I
don't feel comfortable about non-food grade stuff. The 1% impurities
could be a lot of heavy metals that don't purge themselves from
your body and cause fun stuff like liver damage.

Anyway, I'm still looking for a source of FOOD-GRADE calcium
chloride. There must be a commercial brewer's supply that carries the
stuff, even if I have to buy a 20 lb sack (it doesn't go stale or
anything!).


Dennis Lewis                    <dlewis%jscdh6 at jesnic.jsc.nasa.gov>
Homebrew, The Final Frontier.

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Date:         24 Aug 93 16:19:37 CST
From: "Dennis Lewis" <DLEWIS%jscdh6 at jesnic.jsc.nasa.gov>
Subject:      The word "lauter"

The word "lauter" comes from "laeuter" in German which means "to
purify." The "ae" combination is used when your character set has no
umlauts. And you heard it right at the AHA, it should be pronounced
"LOY-ter". I think that the word is a victim of the English habit of
just dropping the umlauts instead of using the "e" after the vowel.


Dennis Lewis                    <dlewis%jscdh6 at jesnic.jsc.nasa.gov>
Homebrew, The Final Frontier.

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Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1993 15:55:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jim Cave <CAVE at PSC.ORG>
Subject: WORT AERATION


      The dialogue concerning Jack Schmidling's wort aeration
experiment continues on the digest.  I have E-mailed Jack directly
concerning his experiment.  However I feel that misconceptions
continue regarding the experiment so I feel compelled to bring my
concerns up on the digest.

      In his experiment, Jack's hypothesis (not actually stated) is
that one or more of the treatments differ in fermentation
characteristics from the control.  We must then disprove that
hypothesis, by testing the null hypothesis, i.e., there are no
differences between treatments. Note you can never "prove" a
hypothesis, only disprove it.   

      I feel that Mr. Cavasin's criticism remains valid since Jack
fails to adequately address the alternate hypothesis for his
results:  that is, he can't be certain that oxygen did not enter
the wort (in all treatments) by simple diffusion.  Put another way,
the experiment does not closely mimic the situation in the brewery.
Simple diffusion into the wort in all treatments is certain,
considering the long lag time (72 hours for duration of the
experiment) and the small sample volumes involved.  This indicates
a high surface area to volume ratio.  The yeast in all treatments,
as well as the control, could simply be responding to levels of
oxygen achieved as a result of the simple diffusion from the head
space in the jars (rather than any similarity in aeration of the
samples as a result of treatment procedure).  This would account
for the similar lag times that were found.  Therefore comparisons
between treatments remain uncertain.  BTW, the alternate hypothesis
is the simpler hypothesis.

      There are two ways to alter this experiment The first and
most obvious is to make four full-scale batches (5-10 gallons?). 
The valid assumption can then be made that the experiment mimics
the situation in the (home) brewery.  The second way is to prevent
any additional "contamination" of the treatments with oxygen after
they have been set up.  Erlenmyre flasks, completely filled with
wort with the proper treatment (possibly handled under inert gas
such as nitrogen) and fitted with blow-off tubes would be one way
to go.  Before running either experiment, one should go through the
possible alternate hypotheses to see if there might be a reasonable
doubt about any experimental outcome.

      The criticism that the experimental environment does not
mimic the natural situation is a very common criticism of
experiments.  Jack can take comfort in the company he has with
numerous PhD and MSc students in science!


      Cheers!

      Jim Cave, 604-684-8081  "I brew therefore I am"

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1211, 08/25/93