FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Beer Mix... (GANDE)
  Trub: you say potatoe... ("Phillip Seitz")
  keg overcarbonation (Russ Gelinas)
  Povidone cleansers (Kelly Jones)
  Kegging FAQ - Part 1 (Al Richer)
  Siphon pump (David Atkins)
  Povodone-Iodine (i.e. Betadine (tm) as a disinfectant) (Randall Holt)
  Kegging FAQ - Part 2 (Al Richer)
  Test Strip, Povidone (Mark Garetz)
  Keg FAQ / Haze = Tannins??? (npyle)
  Breckenridge Brewery Tour (npyle)
  What is dark brown surgar? (Alan Belke)
  Talkin' German (LLAPV)
  Re: Briess & protein rests (Jim Busch)
  First Impressions/Povidone/Peracetic Acid (DUANE R ROMER)
  A Hearty Thanks (jayv379877)
  Diacetyl `n Oxygen/v-wire bottoms (korz)
  HOMEBREW COMPETITION ANNOUNCEMENT (korz)
  Older Chesr Freezerst[ (John Walaszek)
  Brewing w/ fruit/juices (barbm)
  Carboy Brush (Tom Leith MIR/ERL 362-6965)
  Aniseed taste in my beer. (Davin Slade)
  Albuquerque Brewpub!!! (J. Michael Diehl)
  re: Sour bier (J. Michael Diehl)
  Various Topics (s.quarterman)
  Re: trueb and the Pink Panther (Richard Akerboom)
  Hydrostatics/liqueur recipe/fruit beers (Kinney Baughman)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 2 Sep 93 16:06:20 GMT
From: GANDE at slims.attmail.com
Subject: Beer Mix...

John Francisco mentions "beer mix" - CO2 and nitrogen in HBD1217.
Alot of brew pubs use this stuff for a number of reasons (which are
not relevant to this post).

Homebrewers desiring the use of this gas should be aware that they
must use different regulators as the nitrogen is packed in under
higher pressure than CO2. CO2 is normally under 800LBS pressure and
CO2 gages normally top out somewhere around this. Nitrogen on the
other hand is usually under around 2100LBS and require the
appropriate regulator/gages.

To keep you from hooking up the low pressure CO2 regulator to the
beer mix and blowing your head off, the bottles come with a different
valve.  It's female, part number is CGA580.

 ....GA
+----------------------------------+
| Internet: gande at slims.attmail.com|
| Glenn Anderson                   |
| Manager, Telecom. Facilities     |
| Sun Life of Canada               |
+----------------------------------+





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Date: Fri, 03 Sep 93 08:57:15 -0400
From: "Phillip Seitz" <p00644 at psilink.com>
Subject: Trub: you say potatoe...

Now, I'm all for understanding the origins of things, but just because 
a word is pronounced one way in Germany does not mean that it needs to 
be mimicked here.  Ask anyone from Coeur d'Alene, ID or Havre de Grace,
MD.  I might also add that, in Belgium at least, they use the German 
word but pronounce it a lot like we do--"troob".  Of course, they're 
not all that fond of the Germans....

********************************************************************************
     Baudouin Albert Charles Leopold Axel Maria Gustave of Saxe-Coburg Gotha 
                                 (1930-1993)
                         Fifth King of Belgium, 1950-1993
********************************************************************************

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Date:    Fri, 3 Sep 1993 9:31:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: R_GELINAS at UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas)
Subject: keg overcarbonation

Jack, perhaps your problem with kegs getting overcarbonated is because
the beer hasn't actually finished fermenting.  The fact that it is
happening with (mostly) lagers, which can take much longer than ales
to ferment out, might be an indication.

WRT the yeast FAQ (and any other very large posts): I hate it when someone
injects common sense into an argument, but as my great-grandmother used to
say, "A post a day keeps the flames away".  Post just one section per day.  
It allows for timely responses/corrections and it doesn't overload mailers.

Fwiw, I'd also like to see twice-a-day digests.  (I suppose then you could
post twice a day.....)

Russ Gelinas
esp/opal
unh

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Date: Fri, 3 Sep 93 08:40:32 -0600
From: Kelly Jones <k-jones at ee.utah.edu>
Subject: Povidone cleansers


In HBD #1218, Paul dArmond asks:

>I couldn't find it listed in my ancient Merck Index, but I suspect
>"Povidone" is a commercial name.  Does anybody have a reference on this
>stuff?  It's $7/qt., so there is some incentive to find out if it's
>usable. 

Yes, Povidone is an iodiphor, and would work fine as a sterilant.
However, I believe most of these hand-scrub formulations contain a
great deal of detergent along with the Povidone, and thus would
probably not be good for your beer if you were using a "no-rinse"
method.  I believe the sterilants used in brewing contain Povidone,
but an acid or some other non-detergent base.

>Like when you have
>to reach into a cow with both arms up to the shoulder to correct a calf's
>presentation during birth.

Up to your shoulder, or the cow's?

Kelly

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Date: Fri, 3 Sep 93 9:46:25 EDT
From: richer at desi.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Al Richer)
Subject: Kegging FAQ - Part 1

 Thank you, Dion, for getting me off my butt...

 I've had this file for a while, but never got around to putting it
out in the real world. Finally, i thought I'd save Dion the typing...

						Al Richer

     Kegging Basics; or how to eliminate bottle-washing from your life.
- -- 

 I have seen the light, and it is made of stainless steel....

 Greetings. After having asked several dozen stupid questions about kegging,
I have decided that I should pull all of this information together into one
article for the amusement and edification of the Digest. 

I. Items needed for a kegging setup 

 Kegging is the process of packaging beer so it may be dispensed. To this end,
you need a package. The normal container for the homebrewer is the Cornelius
or Firestone stainless-steel premix soft-drink container. It is available from
many sources, including restaurant auctions, scrapyards, cooperative soft-drink
retailers, and other sources. Use your ingenuity, and you will seldom go wrong.

 The other items to go with your keg are used for the dispensing process. They
allow you to dispense the beer under gas pressure, and to connect and disconnect
the equipment from your keg.

 These items are:

		A CO2 cylinder. Most hobbyists purchase a 5 Lb. one.
		If you have the space, though, a 20Lb. cylinder is a 
		good bet. It only costs a few more dollars to fill and
		lasts much longer. I have both, the 20Lb. for the keg
		refrigerator, and the 5Lb. bottle for portable use.

		a pressure regulator. This reduces the 800 PSI of gas
		pressure in the CO2 tank to a manageable dispensing
		pressure (usually 12 to 15  pounds).

		Regulator check valve. This device attaches to the outlet
		of your regulator and prevents reverse pressure flow
		from your keg back into the regulator. This can prevent
		a considerable mess, and helps prevent contamination of
		your CO2 lines and fittings.

		Hose with gas-in fitting. These items conduct the gas to
		the keg from the regulator, and allow you to connect the
		gas line to the keg.  The gas-in fittings come in either 
		ball or pin lock. Buy whichever fits the keg you obtain, 
		as one is as good as the other for the homebrewer.

		Liquid-out fitting and beer faucet. This is the part that
  		the beer actually comes out of. It has a fitting like the
		gas-in one, but keyed differently to prevent interchange.
		On the end of the hose from this fitting is a spigot to 
		control the flow. 
		The liquid-out fitting requires a length of hose attached
		to provide restriction to the pressure in the keg, allowing
		the beer to be dispensed without excessive foaming. What
		I use (with information gleaned from the HBD) is a length
		of 3/16" PVC tubing between the liquid-out fitting and the
		beer faucet. One foot of 3/16" tubing will allow for a 3
		PSI drop in the keg pressure.
		For a standard kegging rig at about 14-16 PSI (chilled keg
		with a light ale), you'd need about 6 feet of 3/16" tubing.
		Vary this as your equipment requires.
		This can be calculated by use of a chart, which shows the
		pressure needed for different carbonation styles at any
		given temperature. These charts are available from the HBD
		or rec.crafts.brewing on the net, or in the homebrew
		archives.


 When it comes to the pressure-regulating items and the gas bottle, don't
scrimp, as cheap or defective fittings can be very dangerous. Gas at 800
PSI is not trivial to handle, and an accident could be fatal. 

{Continued in Part II - went over 8K limit}


Alan J. Richer  |  Interleaf, Inc.  |  Waltham, Ma., U.S.A. 
Mail: richer at hq.ileaf.com        All Std. Disclaimers Apply
 The Klingon Army knife. Don't leave home without it.
				- Klueless the Scavenger

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Date: Fri, 03 Sep 93 10:00 CDT
From: David Atkins <ATKINS at macc.wisc.edu>
Subject: Siphon pump

Hello readers,
 
Has anyone ever used or heard of using a manual siphon pump like that which is
part of a gasoline siphoning system--several feet of hose which culminates in a
cylindrical bulb pump.  While the hose may be of a dubious quality, what of the
pump?
 
Could be that special piece of hardware for Unleaded Lager or a nice
Ethyl Lambic.
 
Happy pumping,
 
David Atkins
UW-Madison

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Date: Fri, 3 Sep 93 11:16:09 -0400
From: rxh6 at po.CWRU.Edu (Randall Holt)
Subject: Povodone-Iodine (i.e. Betadine (tm) as a disinfectant)



According to the PDR, povidone-iodine is a broad spectrum antibiotic
capable of killing gram- and gram+ bacteria, mycobateria, fungi/yeasts,
viruses and protozoa, all in the space of 15-30 seconds of contact.
But, it's recommended for external use only (even if it's the active
ingrediant in Massengill douches).  Supposedly, it washes off skin and
natural fabrics easily.


SO, based on recommendations by the manufacturers, I wouldn't want this
stuff in my gastric system. On the other hand, and at your own risk,
if you think you can wash it off of your brewing equipment, it will 
very effectively wipe out all bacteria/yeast/fungi present.  From 
personal experience in the lab, it cleans off glassware very easily,
and provided the contact time is relatively short (<30') will clean off
of plastic tubs as well.  If you do try this out on brewing equipment,
I would hazard a guess that residual antiseptic will interfere with 
normal yeast activity - so rinse exhaustively.



- --
Randall W. Holt		rxh6 at po.cwru.edu

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Date: Fri, 3 Sep 93 12:12:43 EDT
From: richer at desi.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Al Richer)
Subject: Kegging FAQ - Part 2

{ COntinued from PArt 1} - ajr



II. Preparing to keg - How to get ready.

 If you buy all of your equipment new, than you can skip this part. What I
am going to go into here is the cleaning and overhaul of a standard pin-
lock Firestone keg. Cornelius kegs are similar, but I have not worked with 
them and would not speak of them without personal experience.

 WIth a keg that has been used for soft drinks, the rubber parts that are in
contact with the drink become impregnated with the sugar syrups. These will
then flavor any beer you might bring in contact with them, so they need to be
replaced as part of the cleaning and preparation process. These are located
in the bases of the gas-in and liquid-out fittings, and around the lid of the
keg. 

 Remove the gas-in and liquid-out fittings, using a 13/16" open-end wrench
inserted through the gaps in the handle surround. Once loosened, these should
remove easily. Once unscrewed, set these aside, and remove the dip tubes from
the fittings welded to the tank. The gas dip tube is rather short, and the 
liquid dip tube is the long one that extends to the bottom of the tank. Remove
the o-rings from both of these and replace them with new ones from the hardware
store. O-rings of the proper size are easily availablein the plumbing area
of most good hardware stores. Reinsert the dip tubes and reinstall the fittings,
 tightening them with the wrench. Do not overtighten, as it is unnecessary and
will make it more difficult the next time.
NOTE: The gas-in fitting is the one with two lugs. The liquid-out fitting is
the one with three lugs. I got them mixed up too...8*)

 Replacement of the top gasket is easy. Just open the head by lifting the bail,
then drop the head down into the keg and rotate it to remove the lid from the
keg. The O-ring should come out with the lid. Simply remove it from the lid
and replace it. New ones of these should be available at your homebrew 
supplier, or try a pool supplier for a pump O-ring of the proper size. Bring
the old one as a comparison sample.

 CLeaning the keg is rather simple. I usually prepare a solution of washing
 soda and soak a new keg full of it for 24 hours,
 followed by purging the solution
with CO2 through the fittings on the tank. This is followed by 2 gallons of
boiling water, well-agitated in the tank to clear the residue, and purged thru
the fititngs with CO2. The boiling water rinse is also a god way to clean out
a tank before use, along with a weak chlorine rinse for sanitizing.

III. Kegging - The process

 Kegging is considerably simpler than bottling, but has a set of gotchas all
its own. 

 The first step is sanitizing the keg. I personally do this with a rinse of
hot water and B-Brite of a gallon or so, shaken in a sealed keg, then expelled
through the keg plumbing with CO2. After this, I do the same thing with 
boiling water, again expelling through the plumbing, to clear the B-Brite 
residue. One pass is usually sufficient, though if I'm being paranoid, I'll do
it twice. After this step, you must handle the keg in a manner to retain the
sanitation. This means not taking out the lid and laying it down on the work-
bench in the basement. Treat the keg as you would a sanitized bottle ready to
 fill.

Next, add the priming syrup to the keg. I usually use 1/2 cup of sugar to 1 qt.
water, boiled for 10 minutes for sanitation. I cool this to blood temp, then
add it to the keg. Next, with a sanitized siphon hose,siphon your finished
beer into the keg, being careful not to splash, but swirling enough to get a 
good mix on the priming sugar. Once filled (keep the beer level below the CO2
inlet, otherwise don't worry), reinsert the lid and cinch it closed. Before
doing this, I usually turn on the CO2 to the keg and purge the airspace above
the beer to clear the residual air in the tank.

 With the keg sealed, pressurize it to 15-16 PSI to seat the head. If it begins
to leak, open and reseat it, which usually cures the problem. Make sure that
the lid isn't angled, which is easy to do and can cause leaking.

 Allow th beer to carbonate for 1-2 weeks before drinking. I usually discard
the first 1/2 mug out of the keg, as it brings the yeast out with it. After
that, it's home free.

					I need a beer after all this typing...

							ajr

_________________________________________________________
 Alan J. Richer              Mail:  richer at hq.ileaf.com
 Interleaf, Inc.             All std. disclaimers apply 			
 9 Hillside Ave.                  Your mileage may vary 
 Waltham,MA. 02154
" It's a nitwit idea. Nitwit ideas are for emergencies.
The rest of the time you go by the Book, which is a 
collection of nitwit ideas that worked at least once."
     from "The Mote in God's Eye" , Niven and Pournelle
_________________________________________________________



- -- 

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Date: Fri, 3 Sep 93 10:17:45 PDT
From: Mark Garetz <mgaretz at hoptech.com>
Subject: Test Strip, Povidone

I'm wondering if anyone out there on the Digest knows what the
methodology used to make "test strips" is:  Specifically, how can
I embed chemical A in a material that will stick to the strip (made
of plastic), allow a color reaction when dipped in chemical B and
retain the color on the strip?  Replies by email to conserve 
bandwidth, please.

Paul dArmond writes:
 
>On a less controversial note, the last time I was in the farmer's Co-op I
>looked around for idodine for sanitizing.  I found this stuff called
>"Povidone-Iodine Surgical Scrub 7.5%

He also says that it is not in his ancient Merck Index.  I believe it is
in my new Merck Index, and if memory serves I just read about it the other
day (of course the book is not where I am at the moment).  But again, from
memory I believe that Povidone is essentially the same stuff as Betadine,
also a topical sterilant, used mainly by hospitals.  I'm not sure if it's
useful in brewing.  This weekend I'll look it up and post anything 
interesting.

Mark  



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Date: Fri, 3 Sep 93 8:18:55 MDT
From: npyle at n33.stortek.com
Subject: Keg FAQ / Haze = Tannins???

I'm all for a keg FAQ as I would like to undertake this venture in the future.
In the meantime, I have to fly by all the kegging discussions (and believe me,
the same questions come up again and again) as they don't apply now.  The FAQ
would give us a good reference point and probably cut down on some of the
traffic.

Well, they say that it is better to keep your mouth shut and have everyone
assume you're a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt.  (mouth opening
wide):

This conversation between Al and Scott has me confused.  They talk about chill
haze and tannins as being related.  I thought tannins were to be avoided because
of an astringent flavor component, rather than anything to do with haze.  Are
tannins protein based?  I too have had a chill haze problem with a recent batch
and was surprised to hear talk about acidifying sparge water as a cure.  Well,
have I removed all doubt???

Cheers,
norm
- -- 
Norm Pyle, Staff Engineer         Head Brewer,
Storage Technology Corporation    Pyledriver Brewery, A Non-Profit Organization
2270 South 88th Street            1500 Elmhurst Drive
Louisville, CO 80028-0211         Longmont, CO 80503-2323
(303) 673-8884                    npyle at n33.stortek.com

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Date: Thu, 2 Sep 93 12:32:57 MDT
From: npyle at n33.stortek.com
Subject: Breckenridge Brewery Tour

I recently visited the Breckenridge Brewery in (where else?) Denver! The
business started in Breckenridge as a brewpub, and then added the brewery
uptown in a location just across the street from the under-construction
Coors Field (this is a MLBaseball park, not a barley field!).  Its not
exactly the best part of town right now (lots of empty warehouses and run
down buildings) but I'll guarantee in the spring of 94 (Coors Field opens
for the Colorado Rockies) it'll be all glitz and glamour.

They claim that they are a brewery that serves food, not a restaurant that
makes beer.  This is indeed the case, from my observations.  There is at
least as much floor space devoted to the brewery as there is to the
restaurant.  The layout is a bit strange to me, though, as the brewery is
spread out over 3 different areas in the building.  The brewery was not in
operation when I was there but most things are right out in the open so I
did my own tour and showed off my experience to my father-in-law.

They have a monstrous, auger-fed grain mill (I couldn't see where the keep
the grain).  The grist is then augered over to the mash tun, which looks
like it has no heater (i.e. they do a single-step infusion).  The mash-tun
apparently has a water inlet (from a gas fired hot liquor tank) which comes
in from the bottom, so as grain falls from the top, it mixes with water from
the bottom.  The output of this is pumped over to the gas fired boiler.  The
output of the boiler goes through a small chiller (I'm guessing it is cooled
with a refrigerant rather than just with water) before being pumped to the
fermenters.  I looked but couldn't spot a DE filter, I'm sure they use one.
There are also large insulated cooling tanks all around.  From these, the
beer is pumped all the way across the restaurant to the bottling line (and
presumably over to the bar!).  The bottling line is an interesting setup,
behind glass so I couldn't get too close.  One interesting note about the
bottling:  the bottles are sanitized either with steam or a solution, they
are turned upside down, and then pass across 6 or 8 feet of open air before
being filled and capped.  I don't suppose there is much risk of contamination
but the bottling room didn't look particularly clean (at least the floors
were quite grubby).  They then go through the label machine and into cases.
Interesting looking stuff (for this engineer) to say the least.  I don't have
any guesses as the size of the vessels in this place but they were at least
4 times larger than any I've seen in the typical brewpub.  I don't know what
kind of annual output they boast.  All in all, a fun time: good beer, good
food, fun things to look at and dream about.

Oh, the beers:  Avalanche     - Nice malty smooth amber.
                IPA           - Good IPA, hoppy sharp, alcoholic
                Mountain Wheat- More of a pale ale than a wheat, although
                                they use something like 40% wheat malt.  Not
                                a lot of wheat characteristics but a very
                                tasty brew.
                Oatmeal Stout - A wonderful full bodied stout, good stuff.

They also had a guest beer from HC Berger Brewing in Fort Collins, which I
appreciate.  If you're in Denver, check out the BB!

norm
- -- 
Norm Pyle, Staff Engineer,        Head Brewer,
Storage Technology Corporation    Pyledriver Brewery, A Non-Profit Organization
2270 South 88th Street            1045 Pale Ale Place
Louisville, CO 80028-0211         Longmont, CO 80503-2323
(303) 673-8884                    npyle at n33.stortek.com

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Date: Fri, 3 Sep 93 11:45 CDT
From: akcs.rab at vpnet.chi.il.us (Alan Belke)
Subject: What is dark brown surgar?

In Dave Miller's "Brewing The World's Great Beers" several of his
recipes (such as Brown and Scotch Ale) call for "1 lb. dark brown
sugar".  Is this the brown sugar you buy at the grocery store or
is it something else?  Thanks for your help.

Al

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Date: Friday,  3 September 93 13:45:27 CST
From: LLAPV at utxdp.dp.utexas.edu
Subject: Talkin' German

Howdy,

I didn't want to do this (it's a bandwidth thing), but having a background in
Sociolinguistics, I can't help myself any longer.

Ari Jarmala (HBD #1217) says English speakers can't pronounce the German
umlaut "ue".  Untrue.  Ask the American I know who passes himself off as
German all the time in Berlin.  Also, his phonetic description of the
vowels is a little off.  "u" is a back vowel & "e" is a front vowel, but
where he really trips is assuming that the representation "ue" in "trueb"
has anything to do with that.  It doesn't.  This particular umlaut is
referred to as a high front rounded vowel.  Rob Thomas does a good job of
describing it (HBD #1218).

But most important, I agree with Nate (HBD #1218).  We are mostly Americans
speaking English, so let's talk like Americans speaking English.  If you
really want to say "trueb" in an entirely authentic German manner, your
average Joe Bob on the street is gonna look at you funny & say "Bless you".
Also, we'd have to learn the phonology of about a dozen languages whose
beer styles, as homebrewers, we emulate.  That could get confusing.  American
English is a language that loves to borrow & adapt words from other languages
(yak, skunk, tortilla, kangaroo, Mississippi, etc), & if we spent all of our
time trying to say a word in the original language, we wouldn't understand
each other half of the time.  Also, by saying a word in the orginal phonology,
we're ostracizing those who we should be convincing that there is more than
one kind of beer.  Make it friendly, not foreign.  Use words that sound
comfortable to their ears, not like some hacking sound.  Be proud, say "troob",
and brew more Oktoberfest!

Sorry for the use of the bandwidth for the linguistic lesson, but I just
couldn't take it any longer.

Happy brewin',

Alan, Austin

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Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1993 15:26:55 -0500 (EDT)
From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: Re: Briess & protein rests

IN the last digest:
> 
> <<Omigod, is Frane agreeing with Schmidling?  Head for the shelters!!>>
> 
> - --Jeff

Yeah, and once a year I agree with Clinton!

> 
> Date: Thu, 2 Sep 93 15:51 CDT
> From: korz at iepubj.att.com
> Subject: lagers/peaches/keg pressure/dry rootbeer/hazy beer/Briess/chill haze
> 
> **********************************
> Scott writes (asking about Briess malt):
> 
> >1) Does the 2-row or 6-row need a protein rest?  I'm told the 6-row doesn't.
> >   when I bought the 6-row the guy told me it's highly modified.
> 
> Briess is quite a bit higher than most malts in Protein level, I, personally,
> would give it a protein rest.

I used to do this with all of my beers, but now when I brew regular American
or British ale, I do an infusion of 160F water, rest at 153 for an hour and 
mash off at 170.  Works fine, and saves a chunk of time since it takes me a 
few minutes to raise 65Lbs of mash from 120 to 152.

> 
> >About Sparging:
> >
> >   * acidify sparge water (1/2 tsp. acid blend to get pH=5.2)  sometimes
> >     I acidify the water, but many times forget. (like in the cloudy beer)
> 
> YES.  Most definately do adjust your sparge water down to the 5.2-5.4 pH
> range in the RUNNINGS -- you want the runnings to be around 5.2, not
> necessarily the sparge water.  High pH sparge water will, indeed, extract
> more tannins from your husks.

I have never ever done this.  I agree with the theory, but like you suggest,
the sweet wort pH is the part we care about, not the sparge per say (the mash
will buffer the pH, depending on the mineral content of your mash/water).

Good brewing,
Jim Busch

DE HOPPEDUIVEL DRINKT MET ZWIER 'T GEZONDE BLOND HOPPEBIER!

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Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1993 16:12:51 -0400
From: drromer at na2.dow.com (DUANE R ROMER)
Subject: First Impressions/Povidone/Peracetic Acid



I've only been on the HBD list for a week, just in time to catch the 
yeast FAQ & all the ensuing flack & counter flack.  I have to say 
my initial impression is not very good.  I joined this list because I 
thought it's purpose was to discuss homebrewing (which, in my 
opinion as a new reader the yeast FAQ was related to), not go 
into lengthy diatribes of net protocol.  Maybe I was mistaken?  

Paul dArmond asked about povidone.  This is a topical 
disinfectant of Iodine absorbed into polyvinylprolidinone (I assume 
the surgical scrub is an aqueous emulsion of this).  Thus the 
active bactericide is the iodine.

As regards to Ed Hitchcock's question of making peracetic acid:  
You can indeed make peracetic acid by simply mixing H2O2 & 
acetic acid (I'd be a little careful though & keep it cold while mixing 
with efficient stirring).  However in my humble opinion why 
bother?  The small amount of bleach that you use to sterilize your 
equipment is hardly environmentally significant.  If you're really 
worried about it why not just use the peroxide solution?  H2O2 
itself is a pretty good disinfectant, although I don't know if it 
efficiently kills the organisms that your worried about in brewing.

Excuse me while I slip into my asbestos suit.

Duane Romer
drromer at dow.com

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Date: Fri, 03 Sep 93 16:26:08 EDT
From: jayv379877 at aol.com
Subject: A Hearty Thanks

    I have only recently become a subcriber to HBD, and have benefitted
greatly from all that I've read.  The recent barbs thrown re:the yeast FAQ
have not helped me very much though.  I hope you guys can work this out
quickly, because I'd much rather read what you have to say on various other
subjects pertaining to brewing.  Some of what is contributed is above my
caliber, but I'm saving it all the same; and wish to say "thank you" for your
contributions.

    Now, I feel ready to try something more advanced.  I wonder if anyone has
a recipe that will yield something resembling Anchor Steam beer  (If
mentioning this brand name is against the rules, please forgive me, I'm new).
Equipment, techniques, and ingredients are no boundary for me - I just want
to try imitating this beer.  Any help?

Jay Vanni

                "I am your density"  -- George McFly

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Date: Fri, 3 Sep 93 12:03 CDT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com
Subject: Diacetyl `n Oxygen/v-wire bottoms

Jim writes:
>If you do this [shake the fermenters periodically], you will *rouse*
>the yeast which can help to keep the
>fermentation going, but will in no way *add* oxygen to the fermentation.
>It is a CO2 environment anyway.  Pumps will add oxygen but this inevitably
>force the yeast to throw Diacetyl which I do not care for.  BTW, this is
>how the Peter Austin Breweries (Wild Goose, Red Feather, Ringwood) actually
>*promote* Diacetyl production in thier beers.

I can offer another datapoint.  At the Tadcaster Brewery (Samuel Smiths),
they use a very flocculent yeast which they force back into suspension
using some kind of sprayers (I've never seen them in person, I've just
read about them) which inevitably aerate the fermenting beer.  I had
always thought that it was just their yeast's tendency to flocculate out
of suspension that caused so much diacetyl to remain in their beers, but
this additional datapoint ties in with Jim's comments.

Also Jim writes (quoting me):
><In professional systems, there are debates
>raging about whether round holes or slots are better and the cross-sectional
>shape of the holes is debated also.
> 
>Not really debates, more a cost benefit issue.  V wire slotted bottom is
>undoubtely the *best*, and most expensive.  It is an inverted V, big end
>down.  I have found perforated sheet to be more than adequate, even with
>weizens of 70% wheat malt (and decoction mashing).

Not really raging either, but it looked good in print.  Actually, one specific
case I know of is the system at the Weinkeller Brewery in Westmont, IL.  Udo,
the owner told me that he had the standard screen (just round holes) replaced
with "a custom-made screen of my own design."  This screen had a cross-
sectional shape like this:

               ----   ----   ----   ----   ----
               \  /   \  /   \  /   \  /   \  /     side view
                \/     \/     \/     \/     \/

where the wide part of the Vs was on top.

Another system I saw advertized (I was part of a group that was looking into
building a brewpub and my portion was the equipment, so I got a lot of sales
literature) had a cross-sectional shape like this:


               -----    -----    -----    -----
                    |  |     |  |     |  |         side view
                   |    |   |    |   |    |
                ---      ---      ---      ----

in other words, from the top, they looked like small holes, but from the
bottom they looked like counter-sunk holes and these were round holes in
an offset pattern:

                            O   O   O   O   O
                          O   O   O   O   O        top view
                            O   O   O   O   O
                          O   O   O   O   O
 

Every manufacturer said they had proof that their design was better than
their competitors.  So, what else is new.

Al.

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Date: Fri, 3 Sep 93 15:05 CDT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com
Subject: HOMEBREW COMPETITION ANNOUNCEMENT

I'm forwarding this for a friend:


OCTOBER 3RD HOMEBREW COMPETITION

Plan now to enter Evanston First Liquors' Fourth Homebrew Challenge.

Entries are due in the store between September 20th and 27th.

Send entries to:   EVANSTON FIRST LIQUORS' CHALLENGE
                   1019 W. Davis Street
                   Evanston, IL 60201

Judging and an Oktoberfest Gala, Jam-Packed with malty German beers on
draft will be held on Sunday, October 3rd.  (Judges and stewards get
in to the gala free.)

AHA/HWBTA JUDGES AND STEWARDS ARE INVITED TO PARTICIPATE.

Wanna judge but aren't official?  No problem!
New this year: Apprentice Judge Program
We will pair every interested steward with a qualified judge.


For entry forms and information call: Bill/Nick/Bob at 708-328-9651
or stop by the store.

Don't email me for info -- this is all I know -- Al.

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Date: Fri, 3 Sep 93 18:36 CDT
From: akcs.wally at vpnet.chi.il.us (John Walaszek)
Subject: Older Chesr Freezerst[

I know that some people use a chest freezer with some type of 
external thermostat to control the temperature.  Has anyone
ever burned out the compressor of a chest freezer due to using
it in a way that it was not intended to be used?  Does anyone 
have any experience with older chest freezers say > 10 years
old.  I worry that an older freezer may not have much life
left in it, but then again I think that it may also be built a
whole lot better than the new ones.  Another question, if the freezer
is fairly full with 30-40 gallons of brew at 45-50 degrees, does
the temperature stay fairly constant and require the compressor
to not kick on that often or a better way to phrase that is
Has anyone had their electric bill double or triple after
setting up a chest freezer beer cooler?
 
Thanks -
Wally

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Date: Sat, 04 Sep 93 00:03:15 EDT
From: barbm at aol.com
Subject: Brewing w/ fruit/juices

I'm looking for some help from some of you barleywine 
brewers out there.  I'm a bit late in putting up this 
year's Christmas holiday brew and was thinking about a 
barleywine using fruit juice instead of whole fruit.  
I've got some basic questions that I hope you folks can
help answer.

1 - Using fruit juice and adding it to the secondary, 
will all the fruit flavor/aroma ferment out?  Would it 
be best to add at bottling time?  If I add at bottling, 
how do I take into consideration the amount of added 
sugars?

2 - I've been told (by a local brew shop) that one will 
usually end up with off flavors if you add the fruit at 
the end of the boil, or in the primary.  Yet, almost all 
the recipes I've found call for these methods.  Any 
comments from those experienced with fruit brewing?

3 - Finally, would I be better off to just forget the 
fruit/juice and use extracts for the flavorings?  If 
so, does anyone have any sources for quality extracts?
I'm looking for cranberry and apple, currently.

TIA...Kerwin Manuel...KMANUEL at aol.com or 
                                BMJK95A at prodigy.com  

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Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1993 13:31:44 -0500
From: trl at photos.wustl.edu (Tom Leith MIR/ERL 362-6965)
Subject: Carboy Brush

The last few batches I've done were in 6-1/2 gallon carboys.  These are 
real nice, until time comes to clean `em.  I bought a carboy brush from 
my friendly homebrew shop, shaped like so:

     0
     |
     |
     |
     |
     |
     +====

I really don't like it very much. It just can't clean the sides very 
effectively, although it is a little better in the neck area. Its really 
bad trying to clean the yeast-ring left at the surface of the fermenting 
wort. When I think I'm through, very often I'll see little brush-marks 
form in the "steam" that condenses inside the carboy.  This tells me that 
its not *really* clean, so I go back at it.  I figure it should be so 
clean, the water just sheets right off, the way you clean your burette in 
the analytical chem. lab.  A round brush, like a chimney-sweep uses seems 
like it would be much better.  Does such a thing exist for cleaning 
carboys??  Or does someone have another idea?

And what's in Bottle Brite?

Thanks,
	t

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Date: 4 Sep 93 15:07:26 GMT+1100
From: Davin Slade <10692851 at eng2.eng.monash.edu.au>
Subject: Aniseed taste in my beer.

Ive just finished my first brew.
I kept it bottled for two weeks and decided to try one last night.
It had a aniseed taste to it and i thought that was a bit strange.
ive just used an ordinary of the shelf draught beer.
Does anyone know what i did wrong.
- ------------------------------------------------------------
Davin Slade, 4th Year Civil Engineering, Monash Uni, Oz
10692851 at eng2.eng.monash.edu.au or
baldrick at yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au
- ------------------------------------------------------------
"It was georgiousness and georgosity in the flesh"
Alexander de Large, A Clockwork Orange
Anthony Burgess, 1966, Stanley Kubrik, 1971
- ------------------------------------------------------------

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Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1993 00:12:28 -0600 (MDT)
From: J. Michael Diehl <mdiehl at triton.unm.edu>
Subject: Albuquerque Brewpub!!!

Some time ago, I was told that brewpubs were illegal in New Mexico.  Well the
law must have changed because we now have one.  "Liquid Assets" is a brewpub
which I will be trying soon.  I post this because some time ago, someone on this
list asked me if there were such beasts.  I've since lost his address so I'm 
posting.  Well that's all.

Lagers, Mike.


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Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1993 00:16:48 -0600 (MDT)
From: J. Michael Diehl <mdiehl at triton.unm.edu>
Subject: re: Sour bier

Some time ago, I posted a question about my first batch of bier being sour, or
tart.  I said it tasted like apple cider.  Well, that batch is long gone.  It
seems that age did a lot for it.  Of all the people who tried my bier, not
one complained about it, eventhough it was "potent." ;^)  Perhapse I added too
much sugar and that's what made it both strong and tart?  Comments?

Anyway, this weekend I bottle my second batch.  I split the wort into approx.
3 gal dark bier, and 2 gal dark CHILLI bier.  Seems to have gone well.  There
was some discussion about chilli bier.  If there is any interest, I coult 
ellaborate on how I made mine, as if I'm an expert.  Well, gotta go.

Lagers, Mike.

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Date: Sat,  4 Sep 93 07:00:00 BST
From: s.quarterman at genie.geis.com
Subject: Various Topics

Here is my two cents worth on the discussion of the long FAQ posting.
 
I found the information to be _VERY_ informative.  I do not find this
objectionable in the least.  More on various subjects would be very gladly
accepted.  I do not believe that I have access to the sierra system for
downloading as I am on GEnie and do not fully understand the internet link
as of this time.  I have only been on the inet for a short time and can not
respond about the delay but if someone needs information on a subject they
should not be posting a question and hoping for an answer for something
being done within the next day or two.
 
 
RE: fruit beers
 
I recently made a Belgian Abbey style beer.  In a fit of madness, I decided
to make it rasberry.  I purchased a bottle of Rasberry Natural Extract from
The Beverage People (normal disclaimers) and added the 4 oz at bottling
time.  Let me just say that it was definitely RASBERRY.  There are various
flavors and if the peach is not available, it probably will be soon.  I
currently have the rasberry and a sour cherry.  At the AHA conference I got
a small sampler of blueberry.  These can also be added to beer before it is
dispensed.  I like to add the flavors to the weizen that I brew.  I like the
weizen by itself but occasionally will add about 5-6 drops for flavoring.
 
 
Nice labeling system Tim.  Sure ya couldn't make it any easier.  I mean come
on now, I have to add with your system (1+1=?)
 
 [() Steve Quarterman          S.Quarterman at GEnie.geis.com ()]
 [() Portland, Oregon                                      ()]
 
 To Brew or what To Brew - now that is the question

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Date: Fri, 3 Sep 93 16:58:05 EST
From: boomer at sylsoft.com (Richard Akerboom)
Subject: Re: trueb and the Pink Panther


As a german speaker, I know how to pronounce "ue" or the u-umlaut
in trueb, but there is no equivalent sound in English, so how to describe it
to others? I suppose knowing the french equivalent would help some,
but I don't speak French.

Today the answer came to me. Recall the Pink Panther movie with Peter
Sellers where he is asking the clerk at a guesthouse for a room, but
pronounces "room" sort of like "rheum"? That is the closest to the
"ue" that I can come up with in most English speaking people's experience.

Hope this helps.

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard Akerboom       Domain: boomer at sylsoft.com or akerboom at dartmouth.edu
Sylvan Software          uucp: dartvax!sylsoft!boomer
Mechanic St.            Phone: 802-649-2231
P. O. Box 566             FAX: 802-649-2238
Norwich, VT 05055 USA 

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Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1993 15:06:42 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kinney Baughman <BAUGHMANKR at conrad.appstate.edu>
Subject: Hydrostatics/liqueur recipe/fruit beers

2 points about the recent BrewCap thread:

(1) Since I'm philosphically opposed to discussing one of my products in 
the open forum, I'd be happy to send info on the BrewCap to anyone who 
sends me private email.  If anyone wants to summarize and post on the 
digest, that's up to them.  

(2) But I must comment on John Mare's question below since it involves 
an interesting lesson in hydrostatics, something I've learned a lot 
about after playing with upside-down fermenters. 

>What prevents the weight of beer from
>popping the cap off when the carboy is inverted? Any advice on use of this
>item will be appreciated.

It was as suprising to me as it is to most people to discover that 5 
gallons of beer which weighs close to 50 pounds does not generate 50 
pounds of water pressure.  Water pressure is a function of the height 
of the vertical column of water.  In general, 3 feet of water 
generates 1 psi.  Therefore 5 gallons of beer in an inverted carboy 
puts a little less than 1 pound of pressure on the cap at the bottom.  
That is, to say the least, a negligible amount of pressure. 

That there is so little pressure on the cap also explains why one can 
siphon priming sugar into the bottom of the carboy with no problems.  
I didn't discover this trick until I had been brewing with the BrewCap 
for about a year.

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
Here's my procedure for making liqueurs from fruit:

My liqueur experiments are still experiments.  My suggestions are to 
be taken as rough outlines of the procedure.  The sugar content of 
various fruits varies considerably so there's no way to give precise 
measurements for sugar/sweetness levels.  I'd appreciate email on any 
improvements to the process that anyone discovers. 

For the blueberry liqueur I have going now, I buzzed the berries in a 
blender first and added an equal amount of vodka to the puree.  So, 
for ex., if I've buzzed up 1 gallon of blueberry puree, I'd pour 1/2 
gallon of the puree into two 1 gallon apple cider jugs and fill each 
one with vodka.  After a couple of weeks, the puree will sink to the 
bottom of the jug.  At this point, I presume it's extracted about as 
much of the blueberry flavor as it's going to extract. 

Now you need to strain the puree from the vodka.  You must do this in 
stages.  First pour it through something relatively coarse like 
several layers of cheesecloth.  The penultimate filter for me is 
a layer of ladies nylon hose.  The final filter is a coffee filter.  
This yields a very clear liquid.

Whip up some simple sugar solution.  1 part water to 1 part cane 
sugar.  Add to the vodka/blueberry extract until you like the level of 
sweetness.  Sip and enjoy.  

- ----------------

Someone asked recently about the best way to make a raspberry flavored 
beer.  I know you have plenty of raspberries in your backyard but a 
small plug for the raspberry essence that Mark Garetz of Hoptech 
sells:  We used it in a raspberry wheat we had on tap at Tumbleweed 
this summer and it sold like hotcakes!  Mind you, this is a fruit beer 
in a town that had never heard of fruit beers!  We added the essence 
at kegging and it imparted a wonderful raspberry fruit flavor to the 
beer that was true to the flavor of raspberries.  No artificial 
flavors here.  The best thing about it was that it was simple, simple, 
simple. 

Cheers ya'll,

- --------------------------------------------------------------
  Kinney Baughman                 |  Beer is my business and
  baughmankr at conrad.appstate.edu  |  I'm late for work.
- --------------------------------------------------------------



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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1219, 09/06/93