FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Problems with carbonation (Owen Plowman)
  Re: Beer Recipe Formulator ("Andy Phillips, Long Ashton, Bristol, UK")
  Buffalo?... (GANDE)
  re: Troubleshoot my dry hopping! (darrylri)
  Zymurgy price error [from Karen Barela] (Spencer.W.Thomas)
  article on Maine brew pubs and micros (LeRoy S. Strohl)
  Brewing Partner (RDG3)
  Darn, I had the chance and I missed it -- not. (LeRoy S. Strohl)
  Idophor Stains (Tony Willoughby)
  RE: decoction (not again!) (James Dipalma)
  Pumpkin reciplease (Thomas_Joe)
  Trub racking, Bottles on side, decoction (Ulick Stafford)
  Hidebound Brewers, HSA (Jack Schmidling)
  Decoction / low extraction (Lee=A.=Menegoni)
  cinnamon in apple cider (sean v. taylor)
  Re: Recipe request (Jim Busch)
  Maize/Cornstarch/CherryJuice ("CCA::ELS_DEM")
  New Cleaner/Sanitizer - an inquiry (Michael Ligas)
  wort chiller (Chris Amley - 3M Telecommunications - 612-736-9461)
  Xmas ale (Alan B. Carlson)
  Subscription request (Stephen Gardner)
  Mash temperatures for Scotch Ale (Benjamin Woodliff)
  oatmeal stout extract / different tastes from different mugs (Jim Graham)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1993 12:40:02 -0400 (EDT)
From: Owen Plowman <owen at ca.oracle.com>
Subject: Problems with carbonation

Hello!  We are using this account as guests to ask the following
questions:

1.  We are a couple of new brewers in Toronto and we are experiencing
    some difficulties in getting our beer to carbonate properly. So far we
    have made three batches of beer (all from kits available at the local
    "Brew Your Own" store) and have had mixed success. Our first batch was a
    simple "kit" lager which went four days in primary and thirteen days in
    secondary. While not totally flat this beer did not carbonate fully and
    was somewhat disappointing. The store suggested that we should siphon off
    our beer before adding the carbonation sugar to ensure that all the sugar
    would be fully mixed and not fall into the botom sludge that never gets
    into the bottles.

    Batch number two was the same "kit" lager, with 6 1/2 lbs of fresh
    raspberries added to create a fruity summer beer. The beer fermented four
    days in primary and seventeen days in secondary (with very vigorous
    fermentation going on all the time). The result was great with lots of
    carbonation and a super taste.

    Batch number three was an English Bitter brewed using a bitter "kit" with
    a mixture of grains and hops added to improve the taste. Primary lasted
    four days and secondary fifteen. Carbonation this time was poor with the
    beer being nearly flat.

    In all three cases we used malt sugar (between 2/3 and 1 cup) for eighteen
    litres of beer. The actual taste of all our beers is quite good and we
    have had no problems with contamination at all. We suspect that our
    problem is related to the life cycle of the yeast and that for some reason
    there is not enough left at bottling time to create carbonation. Can some
    of you more experienced brewers offer any ideas on what we are doing wrong
    and how to improve for future batches? Should we be bottling sooner and
    how can we judge when the time is right?

    It's probably best if you reply directly to the mail id we are using
    ("owen at ca.oracle.com") for this question, and then we will summarize to
    the list.

2.  Is there anybody on the list who is familiar with the Widmer Brewing
    Co. in Portland Oregon? They produce a Hefeweizen and we would very much
    appreciate any recipes that closely mimic this beer if somebody has one.

3. We read Bill Flowers note on Hoptech's fruit extracts and are interested in
   finding out more about these. Where is Hoptech located and do you know if
   these same extracts are available in Toronto?

Thanks very much

Doug and Brian

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Date: Wed, 29 Sep 93 13:13 BST
From: "Andy Phillips, Long Ashton, Bristol, UK" <phillipsa at afrc.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Beer Recipe Formulator

Once again I have to apologize for the following messages,
as my mailer won't accept either correspondent's address.

To: Chris Campanelli:
Glad to hear Version 2 of the Beer Recipe Formulator is on the way.
If you can't include automatic US/metric conversion, how about
having a help screen with conversion tables/formulae for
the arithmetically challenged?

To: Tom Nelson:
Your "Brewer's Workshop" program sounds interesting. Could you
send me some details? My snailmail address is: 
Andy Phillips, Velley Cottage, 137 High St, Pensford, Bristol,
BS18 4BH, U.K. Or FAX to +44-275-394281

Thanks
Andy

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Date: 29 Sep 93 03:32:03 GMT
From: GANDE at slims.attmail.com
Subject: Buffalo?...

Apologies for the deplorable use of BW, can anyone tell me of a
source of grain in Buffalo, N.Y.? I can get Canada Malting 2 row
really cheap here in Toronto, but imported malts are unheard of.
Buffalo is just 'cross the border and worth the drive. EMAIL response
to: gande at slims.attmail.com

TIA....Glenn Anderson






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Date: Wed Sep 29 06:43:28 1993
From: darrylri at microsoft.com
Subject: re: Troubleshoot my dry hopping!

caa at com2serv.c2s.mn.org (Charles Anderson) writes
> > From: Kelly Jones <k-jones at ee.utah.edu>
> > Questions:
> > Is this simply a temporary bitterness that will soon mellow?  Or can
> > dry hopping really add noticeable bitterness?  Did I over dryhop?
> > How many IBU's can/should dry hops introduce?
> 
> I did the same thing with my first full mash Pale Ale.  I added 1oz of
                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Willamette to the fermenter, it came out with a great hop aroma, but also
> an unbelievable bitterness.  BTW I just threw the hops in on top of the
> fermenting wort.  It took a long time for my bitterness to go away, and
> by that time I didn't think the beer was very good.  (couldn't tell if
> wasn't very good to start with too much bitterness)

This struck a chord in me.  I'd just like to point out that your
hop utilization is going to change dramatically when you go from
a partion boil extract brewing process to a full boil mashing
process.  I discovered when I changed over that I needed about
half as much hops as I had been using in extract beers.

The reason is that if you boil 6 pounds of extract in a gallon and
a half of water, the gravity of that wort is well over 1.100, and
probably somewhere near 1.125.  High gravity worts don't take up
much iso alpha acids from the hops.  When you switch to all grain,
and therefore full wort boils, your gravity will be more like
1.050, and you'll get a lot more bitterness out of your hops.

		--Darryl Richman


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Date: Wed, 29 Sep 93 09:50:14 EDT
From: Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu
Subject: Zymurgy price error [from Karen Barela]

[I'm probably violating some Compu$erve conditions of use policy, but
since I don't have a C$ account, I don't care.]  I have been waiting
for this notice to show up in the HBD, but it hasn't, so here it is.

(No, I'm not connected with YeastLab.  Just an interested bystander.)

=S

#: 242768 S14/General Homebrewing
    17-Sep-93  10:11:22
Sb: #Zymurgy price error
Fm: Karen Barela/AHA VP 75250,1350

To all AHA members and zymurgy readers:

zymurgy magazine inadvertently printed incorrect prices for G.W. Kent's Yeast
Lab Liquid Yeast Cultures in the New Products section of our 1993 Fall issue.
Please accept our apologies for any confusion this may have caused. G.W. Kent
does not sell directly to homebrewers, which is incorrectly implied in the
information we published.  For information on this product, contact your
retailer directly.  If you have any questions about this error, contact me at
(303) 447-0816.

Sincerely,


Karen Barela
President,
American Homebrewers Association
                                


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Date: Wed, 29 Sep 93 10:15:02 EDT
From: LeRoy S. Strohl <lstrohl at s850.mwc.edu>
Subject: article on Maine brew pubs and micros

In the October 1993 issue of -Down East- magazine appears an article
entitled The Ultimate Pub Crawl by Al Diamon. According to the article
**Maine currently ranks fourth in the nation in number of breweries
per, one for every 136,000 of us.** If his notes on the tastings are
accurate, there are some good brews to look forward to if one were to
visit Maine. The article finishes with a Where to Find Maine's Breweries
list:
	Acadia Brewing, 30 Rodick St., Bar Harbor, 288-9513
	Andrews Brewing, Box 4975, Lincolnville, 763-3305
	Bar Harbor Brewing, 22 Fore St, Bar Harbor, 288-4592
	D.L.Geary Brewing, 38 Evergreen Drive, Portland, 878-2337
	Gritty McDuff's Brew Pub, 396 Fore St, Portland, 772-2739
	Kennebunkport Brewing, 8 Western Ave, Kennebunk, 967-4311
	Lake St. George Brewing, RR 1, Box 2505, Liberty, 589-4180
	Sea Dog Brewing, 43 Mechanic Street, Camden, 236-6863
	Sunday River Brewing, 1 Sunday River Road, Bethel, 824-3541

Three summers ago because the weather had turned foul while vacationing
with friends in Rhode Island, we took a drive up to Portland. We spent
far too long in Gritty McDuff's that afternoon and evening. The beer
seemed just right for the day, against all of our better judgment we
stayed overnight in a Holday Inn, went back for more excellent beer and
food for lunch the next day before returning to Rhode Island.



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Date: Wed, 29 Sep 93 06:05:11 PDT
From: RDG3%QA%DCPP at encon01.comp.pge.com
Subject: Brewing Partner

A friend of mine (who does not have access to HBD) recently move to Merced 
California, and was wondering if there were anyone in the area who was looking
for a brewing partner.  If you know of any local clubs or individuals please 
let me know.

Thank you, Bob (RDG3 at pge.com)

"All you touch & all you see is all your life will ever be." Pink Floyd

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Date: Wed, 29 Sep 93 10:20:47 EDT
From: LeRoy S. Strohl <lstrohl at s850.mwc.edu>
Subject: Darn, I had the chance and I missed it -- not.

I heard on the radio as I was coming into work today that Millers has
decided to withdraw their Clear Beer. What a bunch of no-brainers they
must have in their marketing department. I never tried the stuff and
figured I wan't missing anything. You may want to pick up a six for
collector's items because you gotta figure that if there are folks who
will pay $50 for Billy Beer there will be folks eventually wanting to
buy some of the defunct Clear stuff.


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Date: Wed, 29 Sep 93 10:28:44 EDT
From: twilloug at brynmawr.webo.dg.com (Tony Willoughby)
Subject: Idophor Stains


Howdy,

My regular habit for sanitize my bottling bucket is to fill it to the rim
with a mild bleach solution.  I've recently tried Idophor for this and after
two days the inside of my bucket looks rusty!  Any way to get rid of this?
If not, will it do any harm?

- -- 
Tony Willoughby               | 
twilloug at brynmawr.webo.dg.com | "...and there's some homebrewed stuff
                              |                      in the promoter's car"
                              |                      
                              |                                   -Spinal Tap

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Date: Wed, 29 Sep 93 11:30:38 EDT
From: dipalma at banshee.sw.stratus.com (James Dipalma)
Subject: RE: decoction (not again!)


Hi All,

   In HBD#1236, Brian Moore writes:

>the decoction discussion has come and gone

   It's OK Brian, this is one of my favorite brewing topics. :-)

>thirty minutes then pulled our first decoction (about 1/3 of the total
>volume, mostly
>grains).

>Our mash came to a temperature of about 140 F and stayed firmly there.

>3. Should my first decoction have been bigger?

   Yes, you should take 40%-50% of the total volume, mostly grains, for
the first thick decoction.  If the volume pulled is too small, you will
undershoot the saccharification rest temperature.  
   Add about 2/3 of the decoction back to the main mash, folding the
mash gently in order to avoid thermal gradients and heat the mash evenly.
Monitor the temperature as you are doing this, add more of the decoction
as needed to hit the saccharification rest temperature.  Seal the mash tun.
There will likely be some of the decoction remaining in the decoction
kettle.  Simply allow it to cool for a few minutes, until it is the same
temperature as the main mash, then add it back to the main mash.
   Another advantage to pulling a larger first decoction is it will improve
extraction somewhat.  Boiling a higher proportion of the grains produces
more gelatinized starch, which the amylase enzymes can convert to sugars
during the second saccharification rest.

>  Our plan was to slowly heat this on our propane cooker to about
>155 F.  It was
>then we realized that the words "slowly heat" and "propane cooker" do not go
>together
>well.  After an almost instantaneous local boil,
                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>1. Was my extraction so low because of incomplete conversion or some other
>reason?

	What happened here is that the amylase enzyme that would have converted
the first thick decoction during the first saccharification rest was
denatured very quickly.  That meant the remaining enzymes in the main mash
had to convert *ALL* of the mash.  Depending on the type of grain used,
there may not have been enzymes remaining to achieve complete conversion.
    The purpose of the first saccharification rest is to convert the 
starch in the first thick decoction.  When the decoction is subsequently
boiled, the amylase enzymes are denatured, but conversion has already been
achieved.  The additional soluble starch released by the boil is easily
converted by the remaining enzymes in the main mash during the second
saccharification rest.  This process of releasing additional soluble starch
during the boil, then allowing the amylase enzyme a second phase of  
conversion, is the cause of the higher extraction rates achieved through
decoction mashing.
    Pulling the thickest 40%-50% should be roughly 2 - 2.5 gallons of
mash by volume.  This fits easily in a 4 or 5 gallon pot.  Heat the mash
on the stove slowly, monitoring the temperature.  When the desired mash
temperature is reached, find some way of stabilizing it.  I use a cheap
plastic picnic cooler with a trivet in the bottom to avoid melting the
plastic.  Hold for 30 minutes.  Don't worry about the iodine test at this
point, as the boil will re-introduce soluble starch into the decocted mash.
After 30 minutes, add the decoction back to main mash as described above.

>Here we were somewhere between 140 F and 160 F for about 30 minutes

    It's really important to exercise better control over the mash
temperature, if you ever expect to attain any consistent results from your
recipes.

>Sorry about the length
    
    No problem, like I said, one of my favorite brewing topics.

                                     Cheers,
                                      Jim


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Date: Wed, 29 Sep 93 10:31:00 CST
From: Thomas_Joe at lanmail.ncsc.navy.mil
Subject: Pumpkin reciplease

Fellow Brewers,
    I subscribed to HBD a few months ago and have only recently started 
    reading the info consistently. Therefore, please be lenient with me 
    if I breach any protocol or etiquette(I have witnessed some of the 
    more serious 'discussions'). Anyway, I have seen people mentioning 
    pumpkin brews on occasion and my mouth is beginning to water and my
    mash tun is twitching! I tasted a friend's Frambroise(raspberry 
    brew) and it was such a treat that I think this fall warrants a 
    pumpkin brew! If anyone has recipes or suggestions for brewing with 
    pumpkin PLEASE respond before my taste buds rebel. Also, this will 
    be my first batch made with fruit or vegetable so any advice is 
    always welcome. I switch back and forth between all-grain and 
    partial mashes so any type of recipe will be appreciated.
TIA,
     JOE 
(my email address is: Thomas_Joe at lanmail.NCSC.Navy.mil)
"We are never as great as we think WE are, and others are never as bad 
as we think THEY are" -Anonymous
- ---------------------- Replied Message Body ----------------------
Date: 9-28-93  1:00am 
From: {homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com}:ddn:navy
  To: Thomas_Joe:ncsc:navy
Subj: Homebrew Digest #1235 (September 28, 1993)
Attach: h:\GATEWAY\IN\HISTORY\47131.att
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------

The original message was sent as an attachment because it was too long.

See attached file: 47131.att

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Date: Wed, 29 Sep 93 10:33:17 EST
From: Ulick Stafford <ulick at bizet.helios.nd.edu>
Subject: Trub racking, Bottles on side, decoction

Ed Hitchcock comments on the Miller suggestion of racking off trub.  I
did this for a while, but a few very slow takeoffs convinced me that I
left most of my yeast behind.  If one has consistent yeast habits, it's
OK, but mine are so variable.  Last night I brewed a wheat beer, pitched
at 66F with German Ale yeast slurry top-cropped from my last use of that
yeast and had the characteristic Kraeusen from hell by 8 this morning,
despite the cold <60F in the basement.  Hard to predict when to rack
when other yeast takes up to 18 hours or more.

Ed also comments on use of blowoffs - or actually non use.  I actually
reverted back to a plastic bucket for ales and skim - not to remove brown muck-
I don't believe it causes problems but to top crop yeast.  I suppose I could use
blowoffs in the Burton Union method, but for my boiler 5 gallon carboys are
too small and 6.5 are too big. But I guess I could dilute at pitching for
my weaker beers (15B is really a bit high for the wheat Kolsch I made
yesterday - and I'll diltute at bottling anyway).  I guess I could shell out
for a 6 gallon carboy.

Charles Anderson comments that it won't help carbonation to turn a bottle
on its side.  I won't comment either way, but I did read a published source
recommending this procedure for a few days at warmer temperatures immediatly
after bottling.  I presumed the advantage was to have more yeast sediment
close to all the beer, and to improve natural convection patterns that would
seem pretty lousy in a bottle.  I just bottled beer last night and will turn a 
few bottles on their side when I get home and see if there is any difference.
The patch was primed with wort.  I'll report in a week or two.

Decoctions again.  Last night I brewed a beer with 8lb wheat, 2lb Pale ale
(only basic malt I had) and 1lb Cara-pils.  I doughed in with cold water,
and then added hot to reach a temperature of 100 with 16 qt total.  
Heated on the burner to 122 and held, and then did the decoction in 
reverse, i.e. poured the thin stuff into the mashtun.  The resulting
decoction was huge ~ 60% of the mash.  Heated normally and then returned 
over 5 minutes allowing some of the thick mash to cool before adding it.
I rose the small rest mash and the cooler from 117 or so to 155 with
little difficulty.  I also assume that I boiled more grains than usual
and so got a more effective decoction, but also a little more liquid
reducing the amount of enzyme in the rest mash.  Could the latter be a 
problem?  Otherwise the extra big decoction seemes to be a good solution
to the problem of doing decoctions on a small scale - i.e. heat loss
during returns.
__________________________________________________________________________
 'Heineken!?! ... F#$% that s at &* ...  | Ulick Stafford, Dept of Chem. Eng.  
    Pabst Blue Ribbon!'               | Notre Dame IN 46556
                                      |    ulick at darwin.cc.nd.edu   



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Date: Wed, 29 Sep 93 11:13 CDT
From: arf at genesis.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Hidebound Brewers, HSA

 
 >From: COYOTE <SLK6P at cc.usu.edu>
 >Subject: Specialty Malts/Hot Side aeration-oxidation
 
 >Ok ok.  We all have our opinions.  Jack your approach reminds me of a
 brewing friend here who won't budge from his tried and true methods.
 Despite all the renovations and improvements my brewery has gone through
 much in part due to major learning/ideas/creations developed from net
 knowledge.  His brews are all made from the basics:
  
 Just for the record, Pilsener Urquel is made from pale malt only and might be 
 considered basic beer although, a very highly regarded one.
 
 My recommendation is that, until one can consistantly produce such a beer, 
 there is no point in throwing in a dozen other variables that swamp the 
 learning process.   It has nothing to do with stiffling creativity.
 
 >   But what damage can be caused by bubbling air through a mash?
 
 Hot Side Aeration.  Exactly what the new wave brewers are cursing.
 
 > Do other mashers out there take efforts to avoid splashing the wort upon 
 sparging? 
 
 I am not sure to what extent HSA is a real problem in small batches but I 
 took one simple measure that cost nothing after reading the Fix article.
 
 My sweet wort travels from the kitchen to the boiling area at basement level 
 via plastic tubing which passes through the floor.  It was free-falling the 
 last foot or so into the brew kettle.  I added several feet of copper tubing 
 at the end so it can deposit the wort at the bottom of the kettle without 
 aeration.
 
 I do indeed change my process as rational new ideas are presented.
 
 js
 

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Date: Wed, 29 Sep 93 10:32:11 EDT
From: Lee=A.=Menegoni at nectech.com
Subject: Decoction / low extraction

In a recent post someone tried the 23 step long strange trip decotion method
I posted and and had a couple problems.  I had similar problems when I did my 
first decotions.

Slow + propane don't mix... instant boil.. mashed 30 minitues boiled 20.
 Even if you nuked the enzymes with heat the remaining grains have enough
 conversion power to convert the starch to sugar, Belgian Pils malt is
 high in conversion power.  The boil will liberate starch that will improve 
 extraction and aid in wort clarity.
  
Remove 1/3 kettle mash boil add to main mash temp is about 140.
 This is a problem with the Noonan decotion method. You need to kettle mash
 and boil 40% to 50% in order to get the temp in the 150s other wise you end
 up with a rest at 140s and a thin bodied beer.  This is especially a problem
 with highly modified grain like the Belgian stuff since it will convert so 
 quickly.  Using under modified malts and two kettle mash steps  results in
 most of the grain being converted at high 150s in the kettle mashes and the
 final fraction in the 140s. 

Add boiling water to get to desired mash temp, mash for 1.5 hours, do 
iodine test still negative, sparge anyway .. get clear wort extraction
about 22points per lb.

I'm guessing but you may have thinned the the mash too much and not converted
all the starch to sugar.  You also may have severly reduced the enzymes in
the brief boil while kettle mashing.  This could have resulted in all the
enzymes for sugar reduction coming from 2/3 of your grain.
 
Bottom (2) Line(s):  If doing a decoction with a single kettle mash step.
  Kettle mash and boil about 50% of the grains. 

   

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Date: Wed, 29 Sep 93 12:25:21 EDT
From: sean v. taylor <sean at chemres.tn.cornell.edu>
Subject: cinnamon in apple cider


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Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1993 14:42:31 -0500 (EDT)
From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: Re: Recipe request

<Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1993 20:33:41 -0300 (ADT)
<From: ANDREW GRANT <AGRANT at mta.ca>
<Subject: Good Receipes Please :-)  


<Hi, I know some of you out there have some really good receipes
<for beer.  Could some of them either be put into this news letter or
<sent directly to me.

I was meaning to post this anyway:

Pale Ale

2 row american *breiss* base malt, target OG 1.063 (total)
CaraVienna (DeWolf-Cosyns) 12% of grist
Munich     (DeWolf-Cosyns)  6% of grist
Aromatic   (DeWolf-Cosyns)  4% of grist 
Biscuit    (DeWolf-Cosyns)  <1% of grist
Gypsum in mash
US Whole Perle, ~8% alpha in Kettle-60 min
Goldings Pellets ~5% 30 min
Goldings Pellets     10 and 2 min
Saazer Whole Plugs ~3% 2 min
Saazer Whole Plugs ~3% dry hopped

Add ~1 qt per lb hot water, gypsum and malt. Hold 20 min at
144F.  Raise to 152-154, hold 45-60 min, raise to 172, lauter.
Boil, hop.....
Counter flow chill, 
add ~10% boiled water to dilute to ~1.050
force oxygen, pitch thick Dominion Ale Yeast


FG 1.008, 5.3% ABV
Notes:  Since this is the time of year that I run out of
whole hops (mostly cascade and centennial), I was using up some 
inventory of Perle (good kettle hop) and goldings (great flavor
hop).  A brewer friend of mine had a 5oz pack of saazer plugs 
that he asked me to use (tough situation), so I brewed up the
above recipe.  I had just made an IPA of 1.060 gravity, so when 
this batch ended up at 1.063, I decided to continue my experiments
with pre ferment dilution.  I had already convinced myself prior
to this that I could water down a batch considerably with no 
great impact on flavor, so I went for it here.  I am using a 
counterflow pipeline to run my wort from the brewery to the 
conditioning room, so I merely hooked up the hot liquor tank to
the counterflow pipeline and let 170F water enter the pipeline,
chilling and rinsing the line somewhat.  After topping up the 
fermenter, I added O2 and yeast.

Tasting:  A good amber color, almost no detectable biscuit character,
but this may change with more yeast dropping out.  The goldings 
flavor comes through real well but not too strong.  The finish
of saazer and goldings adds a bit of complexity to the otherwise
dominant saazer dry hopping.  I had never dry hopped with saaz before,
and it is a great change from the norm.

Malt notes: Despite the well known limitations of  american 2 row 
malt, I use it without difficulty.  The key is to tailor your 
recipe so that there are abundant flavoring malts/caramel malts to
give the body/dextrins/color desired.  By adjusting the munich and
caramel malts, a very full bodied beer can be brewed with a terminal
gravity as low as 1.008.

Good brewing,
Jim Busch

DE HOPPEDUIVEL DRINKT MET ZWIER 'T GEZONDE BLOND HOPPEBIER!


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Date: 29 Sep 93 12:21:00 PST
From: "CCA::ELS_DEM" <ELS_DEM%CCA.decnet at consrt.rockwell.com>
Subject: Maize/Cornstarch/CherryJuice

Since my wife prefers light bodied and light colored brews, but doesn't mind
a little alcohol, I have been considering using either maize flakes or corn-
starch as an adjunct to an all-grain ale. (You know how it goes, brew something
the wife likes so she doesn't complain so much when you brew something you
like.)  I have seen numerous references to using maize flakes on this digest.
I have seen a recipe in TNCJOHB that uses cornstarch.  However, does this
differ substantially from just throwing in a pound of so of corn suger before
the boil?  It seems to me that the sugars obtained from mashing cornstarch
would be -- corn sugar.  Using sugar would make the mash a bit smaller, but
would also remove some of the satisfaction of making my own.  What's the
collective wisdom on this?

On another note, I have read with interest the recent posts concerning the
brewing of fruit beers through the addition of pure juice.  I just tried that.
I added three quarts of 100% pure unsweetened cherry juice to the secondary
in a recent batch of pale ale.  It started another ferment, which completed
normally.  Although the juice had a very strong cherry flavor, there was
absolutely NO cherry flavor in the resulting beer.  There is a strange
(but not unpleasant) fruity flavor.  However, I couldn't tell you if it was
cherry, apple, or diet coke.  (This beer has the stickiest head I've ever
seen.  It is actually difficult to wash out of the glass.)  I think I may turn
this batch into my "holiday beer" by making a "tea" made by steeping spices,
e.g. cinnamon, cloves, and allspice, in a quart or so of water, then adding
this "tea" to the keg.  How well will that work?

Cheers,

Don


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Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1993 16:00:18 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Ligas <ligas at mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca>
Subject: New Cleaner/Sanitizer - an inquiry

I was just reading the recent (Fall, 1993) issue of Zymurgy and noticed an
ad on page 14 from a company called 'LD Carlson' concerning an
"environmentally friendly" cleanser called Straight-A Premium Cleanser and
an "environmentally friendly" sanitizer called One Step that apparently
requires no rinsing and is not an iodophor. Has anyone tried either one of
these products and if so, what are their components? I'm particularily
interested in learning about the composition of the sanitizer. I currently
use an iodophor and have no problems.



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Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1993 15:35:30 -0500
From: ccamley at mmm.com (Chris Amley - 3M Telecommunications - 612-736-9461)
Subject: wort chiller

Since I've been reading this list (not more than two months) there have been
several items on wort chillers but I didn't seen anything on the lines of 
*why* a wort chiller.  As a new brewer this was not clear to me.  Perhaps other
newbies are wondering also.

The scales have fallen.  I used to add about 2 gallons of cold water to 3
gallons of wort and wait six hours for it to cool to pitching temp (80F).
Now I made a simple immersion chiller.  It went in the wort 10 minutes before
the end of the boil.   It cut cooling time from six+ hours to nine minutes! 

Well worth the $32 cost of tubing and connectors, I'd say.

Chris

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Date: Wed, 29 Sep 93 22:14:39 CET
From: Alan B. Carlson <alanc at adb.gu.se>
Subject: Xmas ale

I am planning on doing a Xmas ale (a bit late to start, perhaps). Situated 
in Sweden, I don't have access to spruce, but spruce is a pine tree and 
there's plenty of pine trees in Sweden. Last spring I collected some sprigs 
and dumped them into a gallon-sized ziplock bag which was subsequently 
stowed in the freezer. My first question is how much sprigs should I use 
and should I boil them first (separately) or add them to the boil as one 
does hops? I usually do 23-26 liter batches (between 6-7 gallons) My second 
question is should I hop the wort as I normally do or should I go a bit 
lighter - in case the sprigs impart some bitterness of their own? What I 
would like to do is come close to last year's Anchor Xmas Ale - btw, has 
anyone heard what kind of spice profile Anchor will have this year? 

Alan

- ------------------------------------------------------------
Alan B. Carlson                      Phone: +46 31 772 10 73
University of Gothenburg             Fax:   +46 31 772 10 91
Department of Information Systems    email:  alanc at adb.gu.se
Holtermansgatan 1
S-412 96 Gothenburg
SWEDEN 
- ------------------------------------------------------------

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Date: Wed, 29 Sep 93 18:30:45 EDT
From: ai420 at freenet.carleton.ca (Stephen Gardner)
Subject: Subscription request


Hi,

Please add my name to the HBD subscription list.

Thanks,
Steve


- --


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Date: Wed, 29 Sep 93 17:37:00 CDT
From: bjw at techsun1.cray.com (Benjamin Woodliff)
Subject: Mash temperatures for Scotch Ale



I'm not particularity fond of Scotch Ale, at least if bottled McEwan's
is a good example of it.  So, not wishing to experiment any more than
absolutely necessary, I'm curious about how much of what I would refer
to as the overpowering "malty sweetness" of McEwan's owes itself to
mashing at somewhat higher temperatures?

I often use British 2-row and typical mash ales between 150-153 degrees F.
>From those that may have some practical experience in this matter, what
characteristics of a good sweet malt flavor can be derived from mashing
highly modified malt at these somewhat higher mash temperatures (ie.
presumably in the 158-160 deg. F range.)?

I'd welcome any input on this matter.  I'm not necessarily looking to
brew a McEwan's clone but would like get a better feel for how much
effect higher temps might have on the development of non-fermentable
sugars and this flavor characteristic.  

Thanks,

Ben

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Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1993 09:22:08 -0600 (CDT)
From: jim at n5ial.mythical.com (Jim Graham)
Subject: oatmeal stout extract / different tastes from different mugs

First off, Jonathan G Knight <KNIGHTJ at AC.GRIN.EDU> writes:
> Subject: oatmeal stout extract, mash HSA

> Jim, my e-mail to you bounced.

Either your site didn't use the Reply-To: address (n5ial!jim at gagme.chi.il.us)
I included, or it didn't like the bang-path (there are sites that can't
handle bang-paths).  Oh well, mail to me at my real address,
jim at n5ial.mythical.com, *SHOULD* be ok by the time this hits the digest.

> William's Brewing is a big mail-order outfit in San LEandro CA.  Their malt/
> oat extract syrup, Oatmeal Dark, is one I used with great success last year.  
> You can add more specialty grain or extract if you want (I did) but I imagine 
> it's pretty good just by itself too.  (I have no finacial or other  [....]

Does anyone have an address, or better yet, a phone number (1-800 number if
possible) for these folks?  I've got to do an oatmeal stout, and at least
for now, an extract brew is the only way it'll happen.  But oatmeal stout is
just too good as an after-dinner/late-night treat to pass up!

Next subject....  I've noticed that different beer mugs I have will make
various beers appear to taste better/worse.  For example, I have a mug that
I got in San Antonio, TX one time that's basically a giant ceramic coffee
mug (probably around 18 oz).  I've noticed that it's better, by far, for
darker brews (e.g., stout, bock, etc.), but not for pale ales and such.  I
also have a very, very nice stoneware mug that my mom brought back from one
of her trips to Germany (it was West Germany at the time, if that means
anything).  This is the best for the lighter ales, lagers, etc., but is
just ``ok'' for the very dark brews.  I have plain glass mugs, too, that
are ok (but not anything special) for everything (except for the batch I'm
about to bring up in a second)....

Last night, I discovered that a pewter mug that my mom brought back from a
trip to England seems to mask a slight off taste in a batch that I posted
questions about here several months ago (it was very cidery at the time).
In any other mug, there is still a slight hint of a cidery taste on at
least the first few sips of each fresh beer.  From the pewter mug, however,
it's just d*mned good beer with no off tastes at all.

Does anyone have any idea what causes this?  Btw, I'm not the only one who
has noticed it.  When I took some of the bock (I posted an article about
that here, too) to the local homebrew shop for them to try, they also
noticed the difference between the San Antonio ceramic mug and their plain
glass mug.  So I know I'm not imagining things....

Is it just the texture of the mug that changes one's perception of the
flavor?  Or is there some magical property of different types of glass
(or pewter) that actually does change the flavor in some way?

Later,
   --jim

- --
#include <std_disclaimer.h>                                  73 DE N5IAL (/4)
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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1237, 09/30/93