HOMEBREW Digest #1245 Tue 12 October 1993
Digest #1244
Digest #1246
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator
Contents:
Kegging systems (mcdcup!tellabs.com!don)
extra copper tubing (was Re: chill concentrated wort) (jay marshall)
Re:Rager Number Error (b_regent)
beer soup (Jonathan G Knight)
underpitching (Jonathan G Knight)
Mash out (Ulick Stafford)
Hop Utilization (Alan Edwards)
hopfest '94 (Michael P. Rausch)
Yeast Question (roberts735)
funny fermentation (geotex)
Mashout & Algebra (Bob_McIlvaine)
Brewing Equipment suppliers (UK) (AGENT COOPER)
SLOW counterflow (drose)
Schmidling Rebuttal (was JUDGING) (Mike Fertsch)
brew sights in England/Scotland/Ireland (Going to England/Scotland/Ireland 11-Oct-1993 1053 -0400)
Regulators, Beer mix, and enamel pots. (andrewb6)
GABF Denver (gorman)
Guarenteed Easiest Label Remover (Ed Oriordan)
Booby vs Bogy (Jack Schmidling)
re: Calculating Beer Color (Darryl Richman)
Judges & Competence (Jeff Frane)
WInemaking books? (Ed Green - Pixel Cruncher)
Questions: Sparging/H2S/milk stout (Joel Birkeland)
Brewpubs in Cape Cod area? ("Andy Schultz at 1490")
GABF Summary (npyle)
More on Pyramid Yeast (John Brooks)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 93 14:40:32 CDT
From: hplabs!mcdcup!tellabs.com!don
Subject: Kegging systems
For anyone who might be interested, I recently put
together a kegging system for a very reasonable amount.
First I orders three soda kegs from DeFalco's in Texas for
35.00 plus shipping. I believe they sell both pin and
ball locks. You can also buy them individually for 15.00
each. I also ordered a set of O-rings for each keg.
Then, I called up BCI Industries and ordered a used,
steel, co2 cylinder for 35.00 plus shipping. I sorta know
this guy who cleaned beer taps at a local bar I frequent
and he was kind enough to give me a ton of assorted clamps,
fittings, bar faucet, sankey tap and a cleaning brush. He also
gave me some 5/16 gas tubing and 3/16 product line with it.
In that box was also some special tools to crush the clamps
and a special wrench to tighten fittings on the bar tap.
All this and two 8 gallon wine kegs for 30 bucks... not bad.
I bought a picnic faucet at the local brewstore for about 5 bucks
and wala... now I have a kegging system. In the process, I also
aquired two SS half barrels. The half barrels, I know
what I can do with :-) but anyone know what I could use the 8
gallon SS wine kegs for??? Be NICE !!!!
They have a single sanke fitting on top just like the half
barrels do.
Below are the names and numbers of those who helped me:
DeFalco's Of Houston
713-523-8154 (Conrad)
BCI
1-800-284-9410 (Chuck)
Both numbers as well as others I called were gleened off the
HBD, many thanks to those who posted them.
I have no affiliation with either of these companys other
than being a satisfied customer. After kegging and force
carbonating two brews - believe you me -- I'm satisfied. Bottling
is a drag!! Does anyone know where to get a good counter
pressure bottle filler??? :-)
good luck!
don
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Date: Fri, 8 Oct 93 16:52:54 CDT
From: jay marshall <marshall at pat.mdc.com>
Subject: extra copper tubing (was Re: chill concentrated wort)
Jim Grady writes:
>I made an immersion chiller from 50' of copper tubing and some siphon
>tubing and some random fittings all for about $30. I used 50' because
>some of the plans I had seen called for 40' and 50' was cheaper than
>40'. Furthermore, I had no idea what else I would use the extra 10' for
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>and figured it could only help.
I used my extra 10' to cool the water going into the immersion chiller. This
was to deal with the 85 degree "cold" water temp coming out of the tap here
in Houston during the summer. I fill the sink up with ice water, and run
water from the tap, through the 10' length in the ice bath, and from there
into the immersion chiller.
- --
Jay
marshall at pat.mdc.com
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Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1993 20:37:05 -0700
From: b_regent at holonet.net
Subject: Re:Rager Number Error
In response to Mark Garetz on Rager's Number Error;
In looking at the conversion between metric and english units,
there does appear to be an error with the conversion factor of
7462. To my best calculation, this factor should be 7490.
In reality, the difference betweens these numbers means nothing
in any practical sense to the homebrewer, as they are so slight.
The error probably occured in the rounding of either Grams to OZ
or liters to gallons.
b_regent at holonet.net (bob)
- ---
~ KingQWK 1.05 ~
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Date: Sat, 09 Oct 1993 10:57:53 -0500 (cdt)
From: Jonathan G Knight <KNIGHTJ at AC.GRIN.EDU>
Subject: beer soup
Awhile back, someone was asking about cardamom, so when I saw this recipe in
the "Old Depot Mail Car" (the newsletter of the Old Depot pub/restaurant &
Dallas County Brewing Company in Adel, Iowa), I couldn't resist posting it.
SWEDISH BEER SOUP
12 oz Old Depot Ale
2 qts. milk
1/2 cup flour
1/2 cup molasses
1/4 tsp ginger
10-12 whole cardamom seeds
Rinse kettle in cold water to prevent milk from scorching. Pou 6 cups of
milk into kettle and bring to a boil, stirring frequently. Blend the rest of
the milk with the flour to make a smooth, thin paste - add to the boiling
milk stirring briskly to avoid lumps. Reduce heat and let the soup simmer
ten minutes. In another pan, bring the Ale, molasses and condiments to a
boil. Combine the two mixtures while beating vigorously with an eggbeater.
Taste for additional sweetness [but it doesn't say what to do about this].
Serve frothing in soup plates with gingersnaps as a complement. Serves
eight.
Note: This is a pungent, sweet soup which is served in Sweden as a dessert.
According to old-country custom, it is frequently the Good Friday dessert.
It is one of those dishes you either like very much or not at all. The woody
covering of cardamom seeds have a peculiarly pleasing aroma in this
combination.
* * * * * * *
For the record, the Old Depot Ale is light in color and fairly bland (i.e.,
it's purportedly dry-hopped, but it must be at an extremely low rate as it's
not even noticeable, especially by left-coast standards, and it's not very
estery either... to my admittedly undereducated palate it could pass for a
well-made but not very interesting lager -- now the Old Depot Porter, on the
other hand, is quite flavorful, by I don't imagine it would be very good in
this soup).
Another note on cardamom is that there is some lore floating around that
holds cardamom to be one of the "secret" ingredients in Anchor Christmas Ale,
although since it's a different recipe every year, I don't know how reliable
that rumor may be. Personally, I would try it in beer but haven't yet.
Jonathan Knight
Grinnell, Iowa
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Date: Sat, 09 Oct 1993 12:18:59 -0500 (cdt)
From: Jonathan G Knight <KNIGHTJ at AC.GRIN.EDU>
Subject: underpitching
The recent thread on pitching rates is of interest to me. I have been
plagued for the last few batches not so much by long lag times, but by
awfully "gentle" (i.e., not anything remotely deserving the description
"explosive") and sometimes rather l o n g fermentations, often with
slightly high terminal gravities (mid-teens on O.G.'s in the low 40's).
Could this be a function of underpitching? It has occurred to me that it
could be under-aerating as well, or perhaps both.
For better aeration, I plan to make a "carburetor" out of a plastic tube as
has been described here many times. I have thought I might also try boosting
my starters a little more. This would make some sense for me as I have
latley taken to splitting my Wyeast package into several bottled cultures
which are held in the fridge until I re-start them with fresh wort prior to
pitching.
My typical procedure is to boil up one cup of D.M.E. in a solution which,
after some evaporation, turns out around 750-800 ml. Should I use more
D.M.E. in the first place? Or should I step-up the first starter into a
second? If I do that, do I make a stronger solution the second time (as in
more extract per volume of water)? I'd love to hear from anyone who wishes
to share their experience and expertise on this subject as a fellow-
chronically-underpitching-homebrewer.
Jonathan Knight
Grinnell, Iowa
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Date: Sat, 9 Oct 93 16:40:18 EST
From: Ulick Stafford <ulick at chopin.helios.nd.edu>
Subject: Mash out
I would be very curious to see Chris Campanelli attempt to brew, let's
say, a wheat beer with 70%+ wheat malt without a mash out (was his post
tongue in cheek or not?). I know from experience attempting to sparge
after forgetting to mashout, or attempting to remove a lauter decoction
through a false bottom, that any mash with a significent protein content will
cause a stuck sparge without a mash out. The point of a mash out is to denature
all proteins, not just enzymes. The viscosity really decreases as well,
and I suspect that extract efficiency improves due to the greater solubility
at higher temperatures.
I am sure that it may be possible to sparge a 100% barley malt mash without
a mashout but I would suspect that the extra time the sparge would
take would be greater than the time saved by ommitting the mash-out, and
perhaps efficiency would be less.
__________________________________________________________________________
'Heineken!?! ... F#$% that s at &* ... | Ulick Stafford, Dept of Chem. Eng.
Pabst Blue Ribbon!' | Notre Dame IN 46556
| ulick at darwin.cc.nd.edu
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Date: Sat, 9 Oct 93 14:50:50 PDT
From: rush at xanadu.llnl.gov (Alan Edwards)
Subject: Hop Utilization
Mark Garetz writes (in HBD #1240):
| To summarize, then, it appears that low boil volume (regardless
| of the SG) gives less utilization, but *boil* gravity has no effect.
Al Korzonas replies (in HBD #1241):
| WRONG! PERIOD!
|
| I have a two brewing logbooks (with my respective tasting notes) and a file
| folder full of BJCP judges' comments that contradict Mark's contention.
Mark Garetz replies (in HBD #1242):
| Finally, I'll deal with Al's comments off-line.
Please, don't take it off-line! I am very interested in getting to the
truth on the subject of bitterness utilization. There are a few
contradictions between Mark's research and other brewers' experience,
not to mention "conventional wisedom". I don't know who to beleive.
Rager's article is clearly in question. Does anyone know where he got
his utilization numbers? Where did all those formulae dome from?
Back in June, Glenn Tinseth reported that he was working on a research
project to settle some of these issues scientifically. He was doing
experiments in a reputable Oregon hop lab. Whatever came of that? Is
Glenn still around?
Please, let's get to the bottom of this.
-Alan
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Date: Sun, 10 Oct 93 11:01:38 EDT
From: adempr at sn520.utica.ge.com (Michael P. Rausch)
Subject: hopfest '94
This is an item that is mostly a concern to central New Yorkers but here it
is anyway:
The Madison County Historical Society is planning a Hopfest for 1994.
There will a planning meeting on:
Thursday Oct. 14, 1993 at 7:00 PM ET at:
Madison County Historical Society
Cottage Lawn
435 Main St.
Oneida, NY 13421
Phone Barb Evans at 315-363-4136, Tues-Fri 1:00-5:00 pm for further details.
Oneida and Madison Counties (Central New York state) were once a major hop
growing region. There is some question as to the hop varities that were grown
here. The Historical Society maintains some hop vines and is harvesting a crop
this year. Some of these hops may be availible to brew with.
There may be a homebrew contest associated with the hopfest (maybe Nov. 1994).
I expect people from all over the country to attend this colossial event so get
your plane tickets right away. :-) Thanks.
mike r.
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Date: Sun, 10 Oct 93 19:15:00 EDT
From: roberts735 at aol.com
Subject: Yeast Question
I have been following the More-Yeast-Is -Better yeast discussion and have a
question.
Last batch I pitched 3X my normal, and had a great start, but a very fast
finish. The questions are.. If normal fermentation ends when the sugar is
converted, then the time to completion can be reduced with more yeast...
true? if so, what is the practical limit to this? is faster always better?
can there be too fast?
RobertS735 at aol.com
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Date: Sun, 10 Oct 93 23:40:20 -0400
From: <geotex at engin.umich.edu>
Subject: funny fermentation
Okay, I am having a problem with my fermentation.
I am brewing an Old Ale. I did my primary in a 6 gallon
glass carboy. At about 2 days after fermentation started,
(it took a little long to start) I racked to my 5 gallon
glass secondary. It was chugging along at about 1 bubbble
every 10 seconds or so. I did not have time to bottle right
away so it sat in the secondary 2-3 weeks. Last night,
when I decide to bottle, I opened up my closet and POW!
it was fermenting again at a pretty rigorous level. I had
to replace the airlock with a blowoff tube.
So my question is: Is this somewhat common? It sounds like
it could be an infection to me, but I am not sure. Ther
e are no off aroumas pouring out. At this point, I guess
I can only let it continue to ferment and hopefully it
will stop in the next week or so.
Please e-mail me with a reply (if you have one). I am not
sure how to proceed.
Thanks
Alex
geotex at engin.umich.edu
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Date: Mon, 11 Oct 93 09:05:08 EDT
From: Bob_McIlvaine at keyfile.com
Subject: Mashout & Algebra
Well, with all the controversy on mash-out and
algebra that's been flying around I decided to put
in my $.02. I think we should try to remember that
most of us got into home brewing because we
wanted a better beer and wanted to have some
getting it. I don't use a mash out, I figure it'll be
hot real soon anyway. Then again, (as most
of my cohorts in BFD will tell you) I'm a tech-no
weeny and have an overkill gravity fed,
multi-burner, IC controlled re-circ mashing
pico-brewery in my garage. I built it from
scratch, not because it was required to produce
better brew, but because it was fun, for me at least.
Beer making has been going on for centuries,
without algebra and statistically designed
experiments. But if you enjoy making your
beer and having fun with numbers or you
feel mash-out is the Way, so be it. Just enjoy
your art.
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Date: Mon, 11 Oct 93 15:18 BST
From: AGENT COOPER <CENSWM at vaxa.hw.ac.uk>
Subject: Brewing Equipment suppliers (UK)
Hi,
First time on this list, but a BIG question (to me anyway)
I've been making my own beer for a few years in 5 gallon batches, using a burco
type boiler etc.
I want to move up in scale a bit and have often wondered about starting my own
micro brewery. But where to start? Does anyone know of some good reference
material/ books on starting a brewing business (small scale, brew pub etc)
Where would I find out about suppliers of hardware etc, I just cant find much
info in the home brew magazines I've been looking at, but I may be looking at
the wrong ones.
What sort of capacity do the brew pubs in the 'States have like, how many
gallons a week etc?
Any general advice welcome.
Stuart
=========================================================================
Stuart Munn
Heriot-Watt University
Edinburgh
Scotland, EH14 4AS
031 451-3265
031 451-3261 FAX
E-Mail censwm at UK.AC.HW.CLUST
=========================================================================
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Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1993 10:27:51 -0400 (EDT)
From: drose at husc.harvard.edu
Subject: SLOW counterflow
Greetings:
Well, after 7+ years of cooling my wort in the bathtub, I finally
decided to make a wort chiller. I decided on a counterflow design because
it is supposed to be more efficient and because I cant imagine it is
really as hard to sterilize as some maintain. I had a design for one from
one of the zymurgy special issues (all grain brewing?) and it looked
straightforward. One question I had was what is the optimal length for
the thing? Zymurgy says 20 ft in their article. Dave Miller in his book
says it must be at least 40 ft. I looked into prices for copper tubing,
etc, and determined that, economies of scale being what they are, it was
worth it to build a longer one. I bought 50ft of garden hose (a lot
cheaper than tygon tubing), 50 ft of 1/4" copper tubing, and built a 40 ft
chiller (10 feet of the hose going to the connecting lines).
Well, I used the contraption a few days later. It certainly did a
fine job of cooling the wort, but it is SLOOOOOW. It took about 50
minutes for 5 gallons of wort to pass through this baby! This is not much
faster than my bathtub method (although I recognize that each little bit
of wort cools down very fast indeed, contributing to a good cold break).
All the while the water is running and I am feeling guilty about wasting
so much, and besides I hoped that building this thing would save me some time.
One possibility that I am considering is that the thing is a lot
longer than it has to be; could i cut it in half and make two chillers,
each of which would run considerably faster? Or is this slow speed pretty
much the norm for these things? If so I am seriously considering
"downgrading" to an immersion chiller.
Another general question that I have is how do people direct the
wort into their counterflow chillers. In the past I always imagined that
i would just hook it up in series with my hopback, but recent talk about
the evils of hot-side aeration have spooked me on this idea. The
alternative is to siphon directly from the brew kettle, but this has its
own problems (the old mouth-on-the-siphon-hose conundrum, and the problem
of hops clogging the chiller (yes, I know about the chore boy solution but
it seems to me that that is going to leave a lot of hard-earned wort in
the kettle)). So, what do people do about that?
Any and all information would be appreciated. So far, I am
looking back longingly on my inefficient but simple bathtub...
Dave.
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Date: Mon, 11 Oct 93 10:17:03 EDT
From: mferts at taec.com (Mike Fertsch)
Subject: Schmidling Rebuttal (was JUDGING)
arf at genesis.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling) talks about Subject: JUDGING
>Last weekend, my wife and I had the pleasure of serving as apprentice
>judges in a local competition... First of all, it demands a great deal of
>time, is a lot of work, most of which is very boring and unenlightening.
I find that judging helps me learn a lot about brewing and tasting. I learn
what makes a good example of a style and what makes a bad example. By
critically evaluating lots of beers (good and bad), I learn how to make
my beer better. I owe a lot of my brewing success on judging at competitions.
It is neither boring nor unenlightening.
> The only way one should be qualified to act as a judge of other
> people's beers is if he or she is truly an expert in the style. The
> only way one can become an expert in a style is to live with it for a
> significant period of time. Brew it, taste a wide range of commercial and
> homebrew versions and essentially do nothing else for months.
Ideally, judges ARE experts in the styles they are judging. This is
particularly important in BIG competitions where the judge needs to split
the finer hairs, determining which of several remarkable, in-style beers
match a) the published style descriptions, and/or b) the commerical
beers of particular geographical regions.
In most smaller competitions, most entries are not remarkable
reproductions of the world-class beers. Experts with months of
intensive training are not needed to judge these. Every judge in the
program knows broadly what pilsners are supposed to taste like. If a
sour, amber, flat, fruity beer is served to the judge, he/she can
comment on it without living and drinking in Pilsen for months. Judges
need to know what certain defects taste like, and they need to broadly
know what each style can and can not have in its flavor/appearance
profiles.
> At that point, the candidate should be evaluated by another qualified
> expert in that style and this should include the ability to identify a
> recognized sample of that style in a blind tasting of mixed/similar
> styles.
Many homebrew judges can do this exact thing. In our club, we often
get together to judge homebrews in a particular style. We always throw
commerical ringers in the flight. Served blind, we have several judges
who can a) pick the ringers (usually not too difficult), and b)
identify which specific commercial beers the ringers are. We had a
specialty beer contest yesterday, and we included an old bottle of
Anchor Christmas beer. One judged identified it as an Anchor Christmas
Ale, and when asked for the year, said "Tastes like a 1986". Bingo.
Not bad for a judge that admittedly does not like Anchor Christmas
Ales.
My point here is that certain judges are EXPERTS, and can pick beers out
of a lineup. These judges are those who have high levels in the BJCP
program, and are often called to judge big competitons and best-of-show
competitions. Other judges have broad knowledge of the styles, are familar
with good and bad tastes, and know what the words on the style descriptions
mean. A broad knowledge of styles, a good palate, and a good understanding
of what can go wrong in beers is more than adequate for judging almost
all competitons. This is what the BJCP fosters.
> Like I said earlier, it's not the people or the results that bother
> me. Our light lager came in 2nd place and 4th best of show. The
> problem is I don't know what it means. Last year we came in first, in
> the same catagory with a much inferior beer.
What did the judges say on their evaluation sheets? Every year, the
quality of homebrews inproves markedly. Winners of competitons a few
years ago would not get a second thought if judged today. If you want
to keep winning, you have to keep improving.
How was this competition run? How many entries? Most competitions
have one entry from each style in the best-of-show round. A second
place light lager is normally not judged in the best-of-show, and would
never be "4th best of show".
Mike Fertsch
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Date: Mon, 11 Oct 93 07:58:15 PDT
From: Going to England/Scotland/Ireland 11-Oct-1993 1053 -0400 <ferguson at zendia.enet.dec.com>
Subject: brew sights in England/Scotland/Ireland
Hi folks,
I'm heading off to Ireland, England and Scotland for 3+ weeks of holiday
(vacation). I've been to the Emerald Isle twice before on business, so
this time I'll have some time to play.
I'm interested in noteworthy places in these 3 countries in the beer
business. I'd like to do maybe 2-3 brewery tours (if you recommend one,
please give me all the info on it yo know). I'd like to go to some
pubs known for serving the best brew, etc.
We're country folk, so we'll be spending much of the time out of the
cities. I know this probably doesn't go well with going to the best
pubs, but, I digress... I'd still like to hear about the good pubs,
even if they're in the city.
Please direct your responses to: ferguson at zendia.enet.dec.com
JC FERGUSON
DIGITAL
Littleton MA USA
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Date: Mon, 11 Oct 93 10:53:10 EDT
From: andrewb6 at aol.com
Subject: Regulators, Beer mix, and enamel pots.
Recently I acquired (read: given by good friend) a two guage oxygen regulator
that had previously been used for welding purposes. One guage reads from 0
to 90lbs, while the other reads from 0 to about 3000lbs as I recall
(actually, the high pressure side has a dual scale and reads gas flow and/or
pressure). I realize that the part that fits onto the tank may have the
incorrect thread, however this piece is removeable and I'm sure I can find a
new fitting to match the tank. Would this regulator be suitable for kegging
purposes? Can I expect any noticeable off flavors, or contamination problems
due to the fact that this has been used for welding?
I believe the beer mix is a nitrogen and C02 mix, and will reduce the
problems with over carbonation of beer, if the keg is kept on tap for a
prolonged period. This sounds great, as I prefer my beers with little
carbonation anyway, (I am a native Briton after all). However, are there any
disadvantages to using a Nitrogen/C02 mix.
Has anyone tried mounting a "Slotted T drain" in an enamel-on-steel pot?
Obviously welding is out of the question, and I imagine that
chipping/splintering of the enamel would be a problem too, but are there any
fittings (perhaps an o-ring or a compression type) that will be strong, seal
well, and still hold up to the rigors of boiling wort?
Thanks in Advance:
Andrew Baird
AndrewB6 at aol.com
(A good pilot is one who's made the same number of landings as take-offs!)
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Date: Mon, 11 Oct 93 11:15:53 EDT
From: gorman at aol.com
Subject: GABF Denver
FYI to all attending future Great American Beer Festivals.
The members only tasting on Saturday afternoon at the GABF was definitely
the place to be. Uncrowded conditions allowed relaxed tasting and
conversation with the brewers. By comparison, Saturday night was a zoo.
Did anyone go on Friday night? What was it like then?
P.S. for Denver-area brewers. The Corning outlet at Castle Rock (off I-25)
has 5 gal carboys for $8.99.
Bill Gorman
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Date: Mon, 11 Oct 93 11:36:00 -0400
From: edo at marcam.com (Ed Oriordan)
Subject: Guarenteed Easiest Label Remover
To remove labels from bottles. I fill a bucket full of really hot water
and then dump in about half a bottle of ammonia. Then I put the
bottles in the bucket, and let sit for about 1/2 hour. After they
have been sitting the labels just about fall of (some actually do).
I then use one of those scotch bright pads to clean of the remaining glue,
while rinsing.
DO NOT - NEVER EVER - MIX chlorine bleach and ammonia. It produces a toxic
gas.
Ed O'
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Date: Mon, 11 Oct 93 11:20 CDT
From: arf at mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Booby vs Bogy
mailx -s "Boogy vs Bogy homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
>From: korz at iepubj.att.com
>I think you mean boogyman, but in any event.....
Funny you should mention that because I researched the word which I am using
in the title of an article I am writing. "Boogy" is a musical term and
refers to a type of jazz and a "boogyman" would be someone who plays or
dances to it although no such word is described in my dictionary.
"Bogy" is a type of gremlin, hobgoblin or other bad actor who keeps throwing
wrenches into gear boxes. It is also the term adopted by fighter pilots to
identify an enemy plane. It is pronounced with a long "o" but I find no
reference to a "bogyman" in my dictionary either. It seems to be redundant
corruption and although I try to change people's brewing habits, I don't have
time to change the American language.
Unless someone comes up with something convincing, I will stick with bogyman.
>If you have a very fine lautering screen (like the [Ee]asy[Mm]asher), a
finer grist is better, whereas if you have a coarse lautering screen (like
the Zapap) you need something more like the "textbook" crush.
This is a common misconception of the filtering process as regards lautering
of mash.
ALL of the filtering is done by the husk material and the only purpose for
the screen or false bottom is to keep the big chunks from clogging up the
spigot while the filter bed is establishing itself. Once the bed is
established and the wort runs clear, it serves no purpose whatever.
If one were to rely on the screen to do the filtering, it would have to be
huge (about the size {volume} of the grain bed) to avoid getting hopelessly
clogged in a very short time. This would be particularly true if it were fine
enough to provide clear wort by itself.
>There's one piece of information that is missing, namely that
Jack uses a very thin mash. This is important because a stiff (thick)
mash would just sit there and not make it through the lautering screen.
I can't speak for other methods but the one I champion happens to incorporate
kettle mashing on the stove top. This allows a mashout step that greatly
facilitates thick mashes and minimizes the viscosity by assuring that it is
at the maximum temperature consistant with good brewing practice. There is
no mash consistancy that will not properly flow through the em if at a
reasonable temperature.
>You can carry porridge in a sieve, right?
I think we are debating an issue here, the resolution of which is as near as
your store room. Why don't you brew up a batch in the EM I gave you and
report back on what you find instead of guessing or creating bogymen?
js
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Date: Mon, 11 Oct 93 09:33:56 TZ
From: Darryl Richman <darrylri at microsoft.com>
Subject: re: Calculating Beer Color
The discussion regarding beer color has now passed through a number of
different fora, and I'd like to get my reply spread back. Perhaps we
ought to try to keep the predictive and measurement discussion in HBD,
and the elements that affect judging in the Judge Net.
In HBD #1244, Tony makes a number of salient points.
tony at spss.com (Tony Babinec 312 329-3570) writes:
> linear math that we use to calculate the "expected" color of
> beer is wrong. This point is made by George Fix in George
> and Laurie Fix's "Vienna" book.
The original article that the Vienna book quotes is Zymurgy Fall 1988
(v11, #3), if you'd like to read the whole thing.
And his conclusion is right on:
> For light beers, linear color math is a useful approximation;
> for dark beers, it's more or less irrelevant; and for amber
> beers, it's wrong enough to matter.
To go a step further, I have a (complicated) algorithm for predicting
beer color that I feel is ball park accurate for darker beers. I wrote
about this in the Judge Net (#637, 10/9/93), and which I will restate
below. However, this algorithm only accounts for malt colors and
whatever additional coloring went on in the brewing processes that
George Fix carried out in writing his article, which I assume (without
any basis in fact) are purely "normal".
DSR> In my commercially available computer program, The Brewer's Planner
DSR> (shameless plug), I use a different technique based upon the curve
DSR> presented in Fix's article. The basic idea of this algorithm is to
DSR> determine how big a batch would be required to make a proposed grist
DSR> produce a 2-4 SRM beer (where the lb. * lov. / gal. formula is expected
DSR> to work) and then move backwards along Fix's dilution curve to
DSR> determine the antidilution represented by the actual batch size. It
DSR> gives much better approximations of color, up to the 17 SRM limit of
DSR> that curve.
I will add to this that the published descriptive words I've seen
applied, both from Fix's article and in Eckhardt's "The Essentials of
Beer Style", do not match as the color numbers go up. I would really
like to know absolutely what 20 and 30 SRM looks like in a beer.
--Darryl Richman
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Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1993 09:45:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: gummitch at techbook.com (Jeff Frane)
Subject: Judges & Competence
In respect to Jack Schmidling's comments on homebrew judging,
certification, etc.: Well, yeah, that's probably true.
But, on the other hand...
People involved with the Beer Judge Certification Program, the national
competition, etc. are conscious of problems with the program and with
the whole concept of "qualification." Ideally, as Jack suggests, a
judge would be competent to evaluate a certain style because he/she had
"lived" it. Ideally, all weizenbier judges should be visiting Bavarians
and all lambic judges should come from Payottenland. But, the idea of
the certification program is to help competitions provide judges with a
good, broad understanding of beerstyles -- there are necessarily going
to be some holes.
In an attempt to patch over those holes, there is a movement afoot to
develop a specific style certification in addition to the BJCP
certification. In other words, not only would judge A be a BJCP judge,
but he/she would also have demonstrated specific, enhanced understanding
of, say, barleywines. The trick, of course, is to develop a program
that assures that such a specific certification would be justified, that
the judges *really* knows what a barleywine is, or can be, or might be,
not simply what one author somewhere said it was. Not an easy
assignment.
But at least it's being worked on.
- --Jeff
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Date: Mon, 11 Oct 93 12:49:32 EDT
From: Ed.Green at sunpix.East.Sun.COM (Ed Green - Pixel Cruncher)
Subject: WInemaking books?
Homebrewing has really become popular lately... all the bookstores have
at least one book on it. I haven't been able to find anything on wine,
though. Anybody have any particular favorite titles on the topic.
Something with an overview, discussion of absolutely necessary (and
optional) equipment and supplies, and a few good recipes?
Thanks,
-Ed
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Date: Mon, 11 Oct 93 11:31:10 MST
From: birkelan at adtaz.sps.mot.com (Joel Birkeland)
Subject: Questions: Sparging/H2S/milk stout
A few unrelated questions:
1) Is a continuous sparge really necessary? Has anyone tried just
draining all of the mash liquor out of the tun, refilling with the
sparge water all at once, letting it sit, and then draining it? Since
I use a easymasher of the Schmidling design, re-establishing the filter
bed would not really be a problem. This seems to me to be much easier
than monitoring the flow from my sparge vessel into the mash for
half an hour.
2) What is it that causes yeast to produce a rotten egg smell during
fermentation? I recently had a fermentation using Wyeast Chico Ale
which generated a lot of this smell in the primary. I tasted the beer
when I transfered to the secondary, and it tasted OK, actually very
good, so I am not too worried, just curious. This is the first time
in maybe 8 batches using this yeast that I ever had this bad smell.
FYI, i used 8 lbs pale malt, and fermented at 65 F.
3) Stupid question: If one really wants lactose in their stout, why
not add skim milk to the boil? Seems to me the protein will precipitate
out in the boil, leaving lactose behind.
Thanks for your help.
Joel Birkeland
Motorola SPS
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Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1993 15:33:38 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Andy Schultz at 1490" <ASCHULTZ at MADMAX.MPR.ORG>
Subject: Brewpubs in Cape Cod area?
Hi all - This is yet another request for brewpub info. I'll be off in
Boston and Cape Cod next week. Someone a while back posted a listing of
some brewpubs in Boston, so I'll check those pubs out there. Does anyone
know any places of interest in the Cape Cod area? I'll be staying near
Hyannis, but anything in the area would be fine. Sending mail directly
to me is not 100 percent reliable, so sending to the list might be better
if bandwidth allows. Hey, Boston's already taken care of!
Thanks in advance - andy
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| |
| Andy Schultz Internet: ASCHULTZ at MPR.ORG |
| Minnesota Public Radio Phone: 612-290-1490 |
| |
| |
| 'You can play sharp or flat in tune' : Ornette Coleman |
| 'It was when I found out I could make mistakes that I knew I was |
| onto something' : Ornette Coleman (works for beer too....) |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
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Date: Mon, 11 Oct 93 16:12:03 -0500
From: Mike Westra <root at hpuspma.stpaul.msr.hp.com>
Subject: Wyeast Munich Lager Yeast
Greetings from the Twin Cities:
I am about to attempt my first true lager... using a ferm-fridge
and liquid lager yeast (Wyeast Munich Lager - I don't have the
number with me right now). Can anybody help me...?
I took the yeast out of the fridge without realizing that you
have to wait for a couple of days before the packet swells up
so you can make a starter. I broke the inner vessel, mixed it
all up and let it sit for about an hour before I realized that
it was going to take a few days. I had to leave for a business
trip in two days so I decided to delay the brew session. So I
put the yeast packet back in the fridge.
It is now 2 weeks later. The yeast packet has really swollen up.
I put it in an extra bag in case it explodes. The question:
Can I still use this yeast? (by just letting it warm up and then
making a starter with it?)
Or should I bite the bullet - truck all the way over to the
homebrew store and buy some new yeast?
Any suggestions....? Please reply to mwestra at stpaul.msr.hp.com
Cheers,
Mike Westra
mwestra at stpaul.msr.hp.com
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Date: Mon, 11 Oct 93 14:15:11 MDT
From: npyle at n33.stortek.com
Subject: GABF Summary
Here's my short? summary of the GABF for those of you interested in going in the
coming years:
Highlights: The winners were announced during Saturday afternoon's special AHA
tasting. Most of the people who care about this are there in the afternoon.
And this year, we could actually hear them! I saw the Celis crew when one of
them brought up the Gold Medal and they took pictures. It was a fun moment.
Lowlights: Two frat boys doing their best imitation of wine snobs: "It has a
wonderful bouquet, not presumptuous". Gag. Most of the crowd was great.
Interesting (to me) medal winners:
American Pale/Amber Ale:
Gold - Sierra Nevada Pale Ale, Sierra Nevada Brewing Co., Chico CA
(the "blinde" part of the judging must be lost when a beer this indentifyable
is served)
Traditional Bitter:
Gold - None
(I disagree with this practice)
Silver - Boulder Amber, Rockies Brewing Co., Boulder, CO
Barley Wine:
Gold - Old Crustacean, Rogue Ales, Newport, OR
Silver - Old Bawdy Barley Wine, Pike Place Brewery, Seattle, WA
Bronze - Old Wooly, Big Time Brewing Co., Seattle, WA
Hon. Mention - Barley Wine, HOPS! Bistro & Brewery, Scottsdale AZ
- Sierra Nevada Bigfoot Barleywine, Sierra Nevada Brewing Co.,
Chico CA
- Hercules Strong Ale, Slesar Bros. Brewing Co., d/b/a Boston
Beer Works, Boston, MA
(Lots of great barley wines...)
Herb, Spice:
Gold - Celis White, Celis Brewery, Austin, TX
(Any doubt?)
Specialty:
Gold - Abbey Trappist Style Ale, New Belgium Brewing Company, Fort Collins, CO
Silver - Winterfest, Coors Brewing Company, Golden, CO
(interesting category to have these two together)
Bock:
Gold - None
(!)
Silver - Bock, Stoudt Brewing Co., Adamstown, PA
Bronze - Samuel Adams Double Bock, Boston Beer Company, Boston, MA
(I can't wait to see the commercials: "The third best bock in America, just two
steps below nothing!". Maybe not)
For those of you keeping count (like the Olympics!):
Other US - 39 medals
CA - 26
CO - 13
WI - 7
OR - 6
The big boys did not fair well, even in the "American Lager", "American Light
Lager", and "American Dry Lager" categories. Sell your stock. BBC (tm) won a
silver and a bronze; maybe they'll quiet down a little about the GABF. I doubt
it. I suppose I ought to mention a brewing related topic: There was a vendor
there selling a RIMS system built from reconditioned kegs. It was pretty
interesting, with a uP controlled gas burner to heat the recirculating wort.
It consisted of the mash/lauter tun, a sparge water tank and a boiler on a
steel frame with interconnecting pipes and pumps. He claimed the mash
efficiency was 30% higher than with a normal infusion mash. Hmmm $3000 dollars
(really!) to save $4 per batch (this is a 5 gallon system, BTW). That would
mean I'd break even in 2056, assuming I could get 0% interest if I left the
money in the bank. I put my credit card in my underwear for safe keeping.
Cheers,
norm
Oh yeah, apologies for the bandwidth. That seems to be a new rule around
here.
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Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1993 15:24:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Brooks <jbrooks at u.washington.edu>
Subject: More on Pyramid Yeast
Last week, I posted a request for information about the ale yeast used by
Hart Brewing (Kalama, Washington) for its Pyramid Ales. Nobody responded,
so I called their microbiologist. I asked whether their proprietary
strain was closer to Wyeast's London (1028) or American (1056). He said
that theirs was "very attenuative" and implied that it was more like a
Young's.
After reviewing the recent yeast FAQ (which IMHO is a great resource), I
note that Wyeast London, American and British (1098) are all listed with
73-77% apparent attenuation. My questions for today are:
- is 73-77% considered highly attenuative?
- between the 1028 and 1098, which is (a) more attenuative? (b) more
like Young's.
- since my goal is to clone Pyramid's Wheaten Bock Ale (O.G. 1.061),
any educated opinions out there as to which yeast strain would
be best for this style?
Posts or private e-mail replies both OK; TIA!
John Brooks
University of Washington
ph: (206) 543-9149
fx: (206) 543-7654
****************************************
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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1245, 10/12/93