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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

Contents:
  More on compuserve (rdg)
  Re:  Homebrew Digest #126 (April 13, 1989) (Peter LaPine)
  Chill Haze ("Allen J. Hainer")
  Bock Ales (Mike Fertsch)
  Re: BrewCo Boiler (lbr)

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Date: Thu, 13 Apr 89 09:40:54 MDT
From: rdg at hpfcmi
Subject: More on compuserve
Full-Name: 	Rob Gardner	

> From: sjsca4!greg at uunet.UU.NET  (Greg Wageman)

> In addition, since Compuserve's forums provide an indexed file-storage area,
> lists of (for example) recipes, grouped by beer type, could be kept on-line.
> The possibilities are wide open at this point.  In case you haven't figured
> it out by now, I am also a Compuserve subscriber.  I gather that Rob isn't;
> you should check it out before you write it off.

I never said that the Compuserve Homebrew group was a bad thing. Far
from it- I only stated my opinion that I didn't think it would fly.
Now, obviously, there's a lot that I wasn't aware of regarding
Compuserve, and the information you provided about it was exactly what
I was hoping for. I still think that the Compuserve thing will attract
few new subscribers from the existsing brewing community, but I will
concede now that it certainly looks like an excellent opportunity to
attract new homebrewers. I wish the AHA and Compuserve good luck with
the venture.

Rob

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Date: Thu, 13 Apr 89 09:12:17 edt
From: Peter LaPine <lapine%m2c.org at RELAY.CS.NET>
Subject: Re:  Homebrew Digest #126 (April 13, 1989)

W.R.T. Gary Benson and his questions about bock and doppelbock beers...
Papazian has a small section about the two of these that tends to refute
the long held belief (in the U.S.A.) that these brews come from the dregs.

I have a batch (my 6th or 7th ?) of doppelbock currently in fermentation.
It's delicious!  That's why I keep making it.  I do diddle with the recipe
a little each time to see what effect various ingredients have on the final
outcome.

To Bryan Hilterbrand I say 'Go for it!'.  The recipe I use may be found in
Papazian's CJOH (aren't those the call letters of a radio or tv station in
Canada?).  I've used light hopped extract lately, as it yields a brew that
you can see through, as well as having a great robust flavor.  I use two 
packets of Red Star Lager yeast, and ferment it at cellar temperatures.  As 
Papazian says, most dried lager yeasts can be used at cellar temperatures.  
I've had good luck with it, so far.

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Date: Thu, 13 Apr 89 14:02:36 EDT
From: "Allen J. Hainer" <ajhainer at violet.waterloo.edu>
Subject: Chill Haze

   I'm new to brewing (just started my fourth batch last night), and I just
noticed something about chill haze.  I have a pale ale that is clear before
refridgerating and developes considerable haziness when cooled.  The intesting
thing about it is that it takes several hours for the proteins to precipitate
(ie if you cool it just before consuming, it's clear).
   Has anyone noticed else noticed this or is it just my particular batch?
(I used Irish Moss)  Any comments?
                        -Al    ajhainer at violet.waterloo.edu

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Date: Thu, 13 Apr 89 12:48 EDT
From: Mike Fertsch <hplabs!uiucdcs!adc1.RAY.COM!FERTSCH>
Subject: Bock Ales

Bryan Hilterbrand asks -

> since the subject of "bock" beers came up, I
> was wondering if a bock ale would taste good?  I am considering making
> a bock ale for my second batch of homebrew, and I was hoping someone
> had experience with this.

Michael Jackson describes a bock beer as having "a gravity of not less than
16 degrees Balling (1.064 SG), and are made with roasted malts.  Bock beers
are rich and malty tasting."   

When judging Bock beers, I look for a) lots of malt sweetness, b) lots of
alcohol (it should be warming), and c) absence of a strong fruity
character.  The cold slow ferment of lagered bocks reduces the fruity,
estery character in the beer. 

Ales traditionally have a fruity estery character.  I consider beers with
lots of malt sweetness, lots of alcohol, and a fruity character as Barley
Wines.  Michael Jackson describes a Barley Wine as "an extremely rich 
beer, with a powerful bouquet, and a barley taste which is almost fruity.  
Barley wines are usually dark and bear some resemblance to German 
dopplebock beers".

Although Barley Wines usually have a strong hop character (bocks and
doppelbocks do not), the proposed "Bock Ale" might be better classified
as a Barley Wine.  My latest Dopplebock picked up a bit of estery
character, so I will probably enter it in a competition as a BarleyWine. 

Getting back to the question, Bock Ales can taste good!  If you want a
BockAle/BarleyWine then ferment at ale temperatures and use an ale yeast. 
If you want a Bock beer, then ferment colder (I ferment at 40-50 degrees)
and use a good lager yeast.  Either way, these strong beers are super! 

Mike Fertsch

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Date: Thu, 13 Apr 89 11:34:55 EDT
From: lbr at gatech.edu
Subject: Re: BrewCo Boiler

In #123 Eric Henchal <henchal at wrair.ARPA> wrote:
> I recently bought a BrewCo Boiler....

I tried to reach you by e-mail but it failed.

I have had one of these since the fall.  I bought it from BrewCo.
I bought a three prong 240V plug (small, intended for air conditioner)
and put an outlet on my range for it:  the "hot" plugs are perpendicular
instead of parallel so there's no way to plug in a normal appliance).
There is a separate fuse at the outlet, since the circut breaker is 50 amps.

> 1.  The manufacturers indicate that grain:water ratios as much as
> 4 lbs grain: 1 gal water are NOT recommended with the BrewCo
> Boiler.  I usually use 1 lb grain to 1 quart water....

I use a thin mash: 10 lbs of grain in 3 imperial gallons.  That's about
1.4 U.S. quarts of water per pound of grain.  I get good conversion.

> 2.  The manufacture also warns about scorching the grain at high
> grain to water combinations, and recommend the use of a grain
> bag.  Is this commonly done?  Does the bag/grain sit on the
> element?  Do I have to fit in a false bottom?  Can scorching be
> avoided merely by frequent stirring?

I don't have a grain bag, but may get one.  It certainly could not
sit on the element: the thing is at least 1700 watts, and has only one
"speed."  (The low settings of the thermostat change the on/off cycling,
not the power.)  I think the grain bag is suspended from the top by
strings.

Scorching can be avoided by frequent stirring.  I use a large oak paddle.
The element appears to have a safety cutoff as well as the thermostat
cycling.  If you do scorch the grain badly, the element may cut off
for about five minutes.  Keep the element clean: I let mine get blackened
and it didn't work well for a while.  Use trisodium phosphate (TSP),
available in hardware stores, to clean the element.  (Greg Noonan recommends
this and it works well.)

> 3.  I notice that the boiler has a "drum tap" on the side.  If I
> use a grain bag and false bottom,  is it possible to sparge the
> grain in the mash-tun?

I think so, but I've not done it.  I transfer the mash to a picnic cooler
fitted with a 1/4" copper tube with kerfs cut in it.  Sparging without
a grain bag won't work, though; the grains clog the tap.

> Any recommendations will be greatly appreciated.

Mashing:

I mash free in the thing; I've considered using a bag but haven't done
it yet.  I'm curious about this.  Does the grain bag sit in a water bath?

I had hoped that I could do a step infusion mash with it, but the element
cannot raise the temperature from 120 to 150 without scorching and
kicking out (see above).  The problem is that it applies an incredible
amount of energy right at the element.  The boost from 153 to 167 (to
kill off the enzymes) works fine if I stir.  Go figure.

I heat my mash water to 135 (I think, I'll check my notes) and mix in
the grain.  It stabilizes in the low 120s and requires little or no
heat during the protein rest.  I then do a docoction on the kitchen
range to raise to about 153.  (That is, I boil about a quarter of the
mash.)  It will hold your mash temperature fine--my setting is 4.1.
Beware that tiny changes in the thermostat (4.1 to 4.3, say) will mean
3 to 5 degrees F!

If you're using pale ale malt and omitting the protein rest, you can do
the mash entirely in the thing, but you still need an auxiliary sparging
system unless you have a grain bag.

Boiling:

It works well for boiling the wort, though it could be larger.  I fill
it to the 5 imperial gallon mark and watch it carefully for the first
5 minutes of boiling.  I have to hand-cycle the thermostat to avoid
boil overs.  After about 5 minutes enough protein has broken down that
I can leave it on "9" and it cycles about 4 to 1 on/off, keeping a
rolling boil when on.

Dave Line (Big Book of Brewing) indicates that you can drain through the
spent hops and out the tap, but it clogs up and runs too slowly.  I now
siphon the hot wort to the cooling vessel, and drain a small amount thru
the tap.  (I use mostly leaf hops.)  I tried dropping my cooling coils
(thru which I run cold water) into the BrewCo, but the trub collected on the
heating element, which is well above the floor of the thing, and I wasted a
lot of wort when I siphoned the wort off the trub.

If you do buy and try a grain bag, let me know how it turns out.  I've worked
hard this winter on improving my beer; I'd now like to simplify things.

Len Reed
gatech!holos0!lbr
holos0!lbr at gatech.edu

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