FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Unprofessional language (Hal Laurent)
  keg pressure questions (Michael Fetzer)
  HARD CIDER? ("Christopher J. Lacenere")
  Decoction Question (Phil Brushaber)
  How can I test for fusel alcohols? (Stefan Smagula)
  MASHERS and RUST (Jack Schmidling)
  Air Stat problems ("Phillip R. Seitz")
  making mead ("Andy Schultz  at 1490")
  Suggested Brewpubs in Munich (George Romanski)
  Glatt Malt Mill (r.mcglew3 at genie.geis.com)
  Best extract for mead ("Steven W. Smith")
  Dry Hopping Risks/Alphas/Latin (Mark Garetz)
  Airstat modification instructions (snystrom at aol.com)
  Louis Pasteur (ROWLEY at kuhub.cc.ukans.edu)
  Re: ASBC and IBU's (Jeremy Ballard Bergsman)
  Re: Propane, natural gas, and toxic fumes (Ken Miller)
  Re: good for yeast/good for beer (Jeremy Ballard Bergsman)


Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
  (Articles are published in the order they are received.)
Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc.,
  to homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com, BUT PLEASE NOTE that if
  you subscribed via the BITNET listserver (BEER-L at UA1VM.UA.EDU),
  then you MUST unsubscribe the same way! 
If your account is being deleted, please be courteous and unsubscribe first.
Archives are available via anonymous ftp from sierra.stanford.edu.
  (Those without ftp access may retrieve files via mail from
  listserv at sierra.stanford.edu. Send HELP as the body of a
  message to that address to receive listserver instructions.)
Please don't send me requests for back issues - you will be silently ignored.
For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen at novell.physics.umr.edu



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Nov 93 08:50:28 EST
From: Hal Laurent <laurent at tamrc.ENET.dec.com>
Subject: Unprofessional language

In HBD 1270 Al (korz at iepubj.att.com) writes:
> ...
>My view on the issue of questionable language in the HBD is that I feel it
>should be avoided.  I'm not offended, rather, I feel that it is rather
>"unprofessional" to have such language intermixed amongst world-class
>brewing knowledge.  It sort of cheapens the HBD.  The combined knowledge
>of us here on the digest (and that includes even the beginners, who can
>contribute interesting questions and discoveries, as well as the seasoned,
>advanced brewers), far surpasses the knowledge in even the most respected
>single book.  To me the HBD is like a living book... in print... each day.
>How much respect might we have for Malting and Brewing Science if Hough
>et. al. had stuck the occasional four-letter-word? My rule of thumb is,
>"does this sound appropriate for a magazine article or a book?"  Let's
>continue to have fun, but let's also not write anything that cheapens the
>HBD... these are not mutually exclusive goals.

A very interesting comment.  While I've kind of been taking the side of
the "chill out" camp in this debate, your post reminds me of one of
the things I found annoying about Papazian's TNCJOHB: the junior high
school level humor, especially in the recipe names.  I'm not a prude
nor am I easily offended...I just thought it was stupid, and detracted
from the quality of the book.

Hal Laurent
Baltimore Maryland USA

Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 13 Nov 1993 00:46:52 -0800
From: mfetzer at UCSD.EDU (The Rider) (Michael Fetzer)
Subject: keg pressure questions

Dear diary... it's been a long time since I've written. Eh... I mean,
digest, of course.

Hi folks...

in the last couple of weeks/months, I've aquired a complete kegging system.
I'm using 5 gal soda kegs of the ball lock persuasion...

One of the kegs I got wasn't quite empty, has some 7up in it. So I thought
I'd try my hand at pressurizing/dispensing that before I actually tried
beer.

Well, it's not working... I pressurized the keg at 30psi for 3 or 4 days in
a 50 degree garage... then dropped down to a dispensing pressure of
12-14psi. When I hit the tap, I get 7up gushing from it. Foams like crazy,
but the finished product in the glass is pretty much flat. I.e., all the
CO2 comes out at dispensing time.

What's wrong?

Could it be my dispensing line is too short? I've heard I need a foot for
every 3 lbs of pressure in the keg, and I do have about 4 feet. Does the
length really make that much difference?

Mike


- --
Michael Fetzer                         pgp 2.2 key available on request
Internet:      mfetzer at ucsd.edu        uucp:    ...!ucsd!mfetzer
Bitnet:        FETZERM at SDSC            
HEPnet/SPAN:   SDSC::FETZERM           or       27.1::FETZERM



Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 13 Nov 1993 13:14:57 -0500 (EST)
From: "Christopher J. Lacenere" <cl38+ at andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: HARD CIDER?


Does any one out there know anything about making hard cider?

I tried just adding some wine yeast to the cider and letting it ferment
for aboout a week but all I got was some spoiled apple cider. Pretty bad
stuff.

Do you boil the cider as you do beer wort to eliminate any bacteria?
What did I do wrong?

Any help on this matter would be greatly appreciated.

Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 13 Nov 93 08:56:00 -0600
From: phil.brushaber at lunatic.com (Phil Brushaber)
Subject: Decoction Question



I asked this question on other forums but got no response. I KNOW
there is someone out there in HBD land who can help.

I want to do a decoction mash. I now accept that a controlled temp
kettle mash will not substitute for staged boils.

The instructions I received would suggest that you take a portion of
the mash (grains and all) move it to a separate kettle and boil it
for the specified length of time and return it to the main mash. I
was pleased to hear this as when mashing with a kettle which has no
bottom spigot it is extremely difficult to press off enough liquid
wort from the top to boil liquid only. If this is right... (is it?)
then I have another question.

Wouldn't boiling with the grains cause a problem with increased
astringency and the leaching of excess tannins into the beer?

Thanks in advance!



 ... .. If they put malt in beer and malt in milk. Why not beer in milk?
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.11

- ----
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| The Lunatic Fringe BBS * 214-235-5288 * 3 nodes * Richardson, TX * 24 hrs |
| UseNet, ILink, RIME, FIDO, Annex, Intelec, LuciferNet, PlanoNet, and more!|
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 13 Nov 1993 13:23:28 -0500 (EST)
From: smag at echonyc.com (Stefan Smagula)
Subject: How can I test for fusel alcohols?

I brewed a couple of batches this summer during August when it was about
88 degrees F (avg) inside my apartment in Brooklyn.  I know that high
temperature fermentations can lead to fusel alcohols being produced, but
what other factors are there?  And how dangerous are these fusel alcohols?
One of the brews I made had an OG of about 1.080 and fermented very
quickly and was highly attenuated.  It is alcoholically strong.  I drank some
of it and I didn't go blind or anything, but is it safe for me to give it
away to relatives for Christmas?  Is there a taste test or other test I
could perform to check for fusel alcohols?  Thanks a lot.

Smag 				smag at echonyc.com


Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 13 Nov 93 13:10 CST
From: arf at mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: MASHERS and RUST

 
 >From: korz at iepubj.att.com
 
 >Norm writes that he noticed an EasyMasher-like device in the Gadgets and
 Equipment Special Issue of Zymurgy.
 
 I dug up that issue to see what you guys were talking about and it is a 
 "Slotted T" device, very similar in concept to the easymasher.  It is 
 interesting to note though, that the author's main interest in it is to 
 filter out hops in the boiler.  When used as a mash tun, he still uses a 
 false bottom over it.  I wonder if he ever tried it without the false bottom. 
 It takes a bit of reckless spirit but that is how I found out that it was 
 totally unnecessary with the easymasher.
 
 Just for the record, Zymurgy had an EASYMASHER (tm) for review long before 
 even that issue (Fall 92) went to press.  I have been assured that it is 
 coming soon.
 
 >From: John Glaser <glaser at analog.ece.arizona.edu>
 >      I just picked up a enameled steel canning pot (8 gal.), but
       it has a few chips in it, maybe about 1-2 square inches
         worth of exposed metal. Will this be a worse problem than
         that created by using 3 gal. boils in my smaller pot.
 
 You will get a lot of opinions on the evils of exposed iron but I think most 
 will agree that it is less of a problem then 3 gal boils.
 
 > Is there anything I can do to cover the chips? (for example,
   using hi-temp enamel like they sell for repairing outdoor BBQ
   grills and such).
 
 This is a problem I encounter on a regular basis as I buy them from the 
 manufacturer and install EASYMASHERS in them for resale.  Every shipment 
 includes several damaged kettles which I clean up as well as possible and 
 give them away for the price of the EM alone.  I also used one for years 
 with, not only exposed metal but rust, prior to splurging for stainless.
 
 I do several things to these kettles before giving them away.  I lightly sand 
 the damaged area to remove any loose ceramic and then lightly coat the inside 
 with Vaseline to prevent rust.  This is wiped off before use and if the 
 kettle is kept clean and dry between use, it will remain rust free.  The 
 Vaseline or any food grade oil can be reapplied between use if brewing is 
 sporadic or the kettle is stored in a damp area.
 
 The outside damaged areas, after sanding, are sprayed with "STEEL IT" and 
 cured.   This is  "High temperature 1200F, anti-rust, stainless steel in a 
 can".  I contains "100% stainless steel pigment" and lots of other stuff.  
 After drying to the touch, it needs to be cured at 400F for 15 minutes.  You 
 can play a torch on the side opposite the paint or it seems, that simply 
 using it provides all the cure it needs.
 
 Although it is listed in the McMaster Carr catalog as FDA approved, it 
 doesn't say for what nor does it say anything about this on the can.  As I do 
 not wish to lose my happy home over something I give away, I only use it on 
 the outside but it may well be safe on the inside when properly cured and 
 seasoned.
 
 js
 

Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 13 Nov 93 18:10:35 -0400
From: "Phillip R. Seitz" <p00644 at psilink.com>
Subject: Air Stat problems

I have a Hunter Air Stat and a small refrigerator.  As far as I can
tell both are in good working order.  The problem is that when the
temperature reaches the appropriate point the fridge will frequently
make several abortive attempts to go on, or will run for a perhaps 10
seconds before cycling off.  After 3 or 4 attempts the fridge comes on
and stays on.

I can't tell whether this is related to the fridge or the air stat, but 
I've wondered if the air stat is cutting the current to the fridge due 
to small variations in temperature at the sensor.  I moved the sensor 
and got a partial improvement (I think) but the problem persists.

Any recommendations?

Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 13 Nov 1993 18:51:09 -0600 (CST)
From: "Andy Schultz  at 1490" <ASCHULTZ at MADMAX.MPR.ORG>
Subject: making mead


>>David Slade asked about using extracts for mead, and how much honey to use.

I've got a couple of batches under my belt, and they've all turned out great.
(If you've just been brewing beer, you're missing out - although I'm just
 an extract + grain weenie..:) ).

>From the way your post was worded, I assumed that you were talking about using
malt extract vs. fruit,spruce, etc. extracts.  I've never used any malt extracts
for mead, nor have I ever seen any recipies for mead with malts - sounds 
interesting though.  Anybody wanna start a thread on this?

I've used blackberry and rasberry extracts added at bottling time a couple of
times.  The results are ok, but I think I prefer honey-only mead.   I've
used Red Star champange yeast for all of my batches, and I've been
quite pleased with the results.  It ferments out rather dry though, so if you're
looking for a very sweet mead, you may want to try a different yeast, or use
lots of honey.  I've mostly used  the recipies from TNCJOHB, with some minor
variations, althouth I just picked up a booklet called 'Making Mead' by
Bryan Acton/Peter Duncan, which has lots of good looking recipies, but I
haven't tried any of them yet. 

I generally use about 14 lbs of honey (the lightest you can find- I get mine 
at farmers markets or the local beekeeping supply store) for a 5 gallon US
batch.  Honey weighs about 12 lbs/gallon.  I ferment about 3 weeks or so
before racking into secondary - I haven't had any need for blowoff tube with
the red star yeast - it just fires right up and ferments very steadily
w/o any krausen - no big peak, just a long, solid plateau (sp?) of activity.
Be sure to use yeast nutrient, or the yeast may poop out on you - I had
to feed my first batch in mid-fermentation.  Also throw in some acid blend
to counteract the hotness of the alcohol - they get up to 15 percent or so.

Ready to bottle in six weeks or so - waiting to drink rounds out the flavor
(how we suffer for our art:) ) Good luck - you'll get hooked on mead, I'm sure!

Oops, just remembered your post wanted metric quantities - sorry about
the slip up.....

PS -  Actually, not all my batches turned out great.
     I got silly once, and made a test batch using buckwheat honey, just for
     the (insert least offensive but still appropriate phrase ) of it.
     I wouldn't if I were you :)

|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|                                                                             |
|    Andy Schultz                         Internet:  ASCHULTZ at MPR.ORG         |
|    Minnesota Public Radio                  Phone:  612-290-1490             |
|
|      'You can play sharp or flat in tune' : Ornette Coleman                 |
|                                                                             |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|


Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1993 00:25:05 -0500 (EST)
From: George Romanski <Romanski at world.std.com>
Subject: Suggested Brewpubs in Munich


>Subject: Brewpubs in Munich
>HBD #1270
>Heading out to Munich tonight .. 

I hope you will be logging in from Munich.

>  and wondered if anyone had any favorite pubs they could 
>recommend.
> ...Any suggestions would be appreciated. 

Unfortunately you have just missed the Oktoberfest.  Better 
timing next year. 

Most tourists visit the Hoffbrauhouse.  It is very close to the 
City square at Frauenkirchen.  

The place I would recommend is Kloster Andechs.  It is south of 
the city and you will need to drive.  Ask at any tourist office for 
directions.  This is a monastery and the monks still brew their 
own special beer which they drink themselves and sell to the 
public.  It will be cold for the beer garden this time of year but 
there is plenty of room inside and I would recommend a visit to 
their very old highly decorated church at the top of the hill.

The story told by the monks is that back in the 17th century, the 
monks were brewing  beer, and the abbot forbade them to drink 
during lent.  The beer has a very rich flavour a cross between a 
stout and a Guinness.  The monks decided to send a barrel to 
Rome to request special permission from the Pope.  
The journey took 3 months by horse and cart and needless to say 
the beer spoiled.  The Pope tasted some of this beer and said "If 
you want to drink 'that' during lent then the church has no 
objection."
The last time I visited the place was 1982.  At that time the head 
brewer was 92 and still drank four litres of their beer each day 
including lent.

George




Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 14 Nov 93 02:46:00 BST
From: r.mcglew3 at genie.geis.com
Subject: Glatt Malt Mill

Anyone have the phone # for Mr. Glatt??

Return to table of contents


Date: 14 Nov 1993 08:27:58 -0700 (MST)
From: "Steven W. Smith" <SMITH_S at gc.maricopa.edu>
Subject: Best extract for mead

Davin Slade <10692851 at eng2.eng.monash.edu.au> asks:
>Can anyone tell me what a good extract to use for making mead.  Is it
>better with a heavier or lighter beer.

  IMHO, the best extract for making mead is... honey!  Saves one endless hours 
going from flower to flower with a capillary tube, not to mention the aging 
required ;-).  Lest I be branded unduly snide, I'm including a recipe that's 
been acclaimed by my friends who've tried it.  It's not really "mead" since it 
includes fruit (melomel? I dunno) - tasty, sweet high alcohol content beverage 
anyway- 5 U.S. gallons:

15 pounds honey  (5 3-pound bottles light amber)
1 pound fresh-frozen unsweetened strawberries
1 pound fresh-frozen unsweetened blackberries
good sized chunk of ginger root, sliced (a few ounces)
1 oz. Fuggles hops.
1 package Montrochet wine yeast.
1 package Polish Mead yeast 
1 tsp yeast nutrient.
water to make 5 gallons.

I boiled the honey and ginger root for about 45 minutes in 3 gallons water, 
skimming off the white foam, added hops and boiled 15 minutes more.  Smashed 
the berries in the packages and poured in when heat was turned off - bring 
volume up to 5 gallons.  Started the yeasts in some of the liquid (not wort, 
I forgot the word) and pitched when the bulk reached about 75 degrees.
Sorry about the vagueness of the recipe and procedure, consistant results 
weren't the goal, just an alternative to what my girlfriend calls my "beer 
syrup" - damned sparse appreciation for doppelbock in Coors country...

>Also how much honey should i use for 25 litres of mead.
  A matter of taste, I guess.  I've found that when using 12 pounds or less 
honey, the yeast will metabolize all of the sugars and make a dry beverage.
BTW, it's a nightmare to rack into the secondary with all the fruit and hops 
floating around... Hope someone gives it a try though.
  _,_/|
  \o.O;   Steven W. Smith, Programmer/Analyst
 =(___)=  Glendale Community College, Glendale Az. USA 
    U     SMITH_S at GC.BITNET
          smith_s at gc.maricopa.edu
          "Hark! 'tis the pathetic mewling of users."

Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 14 Nov 93 10:30:15 PST
From: Mark Garetz <mgaretz at hoptech.com>
Subject: Dry Hopping Risks/Alphas/Latin

Al Korzonas mentioned that bacterial contamination might
be an issue for dry hopping.  A rather extensive study was
run by Jean-Xavier Guinard, Michael Lewis and host of grad
students at Davis on this issue.  It was reported in the 
Master Brewers Association of America Technical Quarterly
Vol. 27 No. 3 in an article entitled "The Microbiology of
Dry Hopping".  I also referenced this study in my article
on the topic in Zymurgy.  I'll summarize a bit of it:

They took cultures from the hops and found they contained
wild yeasts of three kinds and many different kinds of 
bacteria - some gram positive and negative, mostly 
"Enterobacteriaceae" whatever that means.  They then 
dry hopped some beer and cultured the beer daily to
see if any of the organisms survived.  None did.  The longest
was still detectable after three days and then died.  It
did not grow during this period, just took three days to die.

I'll now quote from the article's conclusion:  "These results
suggest that the practice of dry-hopping is microbiologically
safe, especially after three days of fermentation."

What we learn from this is that you should dry hop only after
you have a vigorous fermentation going and the beer has a
reasonable alcohol content and low pH.  Adding raw hops to
the primary at pitching time (as recommended by Byron Burch in
his book, for example) is definitely risky!

***********

Norm Pyle stated that "alpha acids aren't bitter."  Just a nit
here, but alphas are indeed bitter.  They just don't dissolve
in beer very well (max 5 mg/ltr or ~5 IBUs).

He also asked "Is this the ASBC's standard method for estimating
IBUs?"  I'm not sure what Norm wanted here, but the ASBC methods
don't "estimate" IBUs, they measure them (at least they *claim* to).

*********

Lastly, a question of my own:  Can someone let me know what the
Latin and/or Greek words and/or prefixes would be for "taste"?

Mark



Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 14 Nov 93 13:54:59 EST
From: snystrom at aol.com
Subject: Airstat modification instructions

 


Thanks to all the great brews who took the time to search their files for the
modification instruction for the Hunter Airstat. As a new digest member, I
was amazed at the number of replies to my request. I also xxreceived a large
number of requests for the modification instructions, so here they are:
 (Thanks a million, guys!)


>From Mike Kenney in HBD#1157

I originally posted this last November and have been using it with the mod
very happily ever since.  I use the airstat to control a  13cf chest freezer.
I put the airstat in a manual "HOLD" mode and simply set the temperature up
or down as desired. The airstat is designed to control a compressor driven
refrigeration device (a room air conditioner) so it is right at home with a
refrigerator or freezer. It turns the attached unit on when it senses a
temperature 2 degrees above the setting and off 1 degree below the setting.
It has a built-in timer with a 4 minute delay to keep the attached unit from
cycling too rapidly. At 45F my freezer runs less than 2 hours total in a 24
hour period and about 3 hours at 35F.

You cannot change the Air Stat range but you can offset the sensor
calibration.  In other words, performing the following modification will
allow you to set the Airstat at 40F yet the fridge/freezer temp will be
maintained at 35F.

The sensor is a thermister that provides 10K ohms of resistance at  25
degrees C. According to the thermister data sheet, at 32 degrees F the
resistance is 27.28K and 22.05K at 41 degrees F. The resistance decreases as
the temperature rises so if you make the air stat think the sensor is 22k
when its really 25k the air stat will say 41 but the sensor temp will be
around 35 degrees F. This is done by simply putting more resistance in
parallel with the sensor. Using ohms law,

Rt = 22K, Rth = 25K (Thermister), and Rp (parallel resistor) =

                Rth (25K) * Rt (22K)
                --------------------  =  183K Ohms
                Rth (25K) - Rt (22K)

With this resistor in place the the range of the air stat is effectively
shifted about 5 degrees lower.  Just keep in mind that the temperature
reading on the air stat will not match the fridge temp.

The thermisters change in resistance is not linear. It will change about 20k
ohms going from -13F to -4F and only 2k ohms going from 68F to 77F. 
Therefore the desired range of use should be considered before determining
the magnitude of offset. Although, in the 12 degree swing between 33F and 
45F this should not pose a problem.  

                              /------------------------------------------\
        |----------|          | Airstat             |-----------------|  |
        \          |          |                     |   12 : 00   40  |  |
        / Sensor   |----------|--(a)     |---|      |-----------------|  |
        \                     |                                          |
        /          |----------|--(b)                                     |
        \          |          |----\                |-----------------|  |
        |----------|          |    |                |  H  |   M  | D  |  |
                              |----/   /-----\      |-----|------|----|  |
                 Submini spst |       / |   | \     | PROG| HOLD | U  |  |
                  Switch  >>> |  *        | |   | |     |-----|------|----|  |
                    (c)       |  |    \   O   /     |  /\ |  \/  | R  |  |
                              |        \-----/      |-----------------|  |
                              \------------------------------------------/

                           180K
            (a) ------/\/\/\/------o \o----|
                                        (c)    |
                (b) ---------------------------

I installed a 180K ohm resister in series with a sub-mini spst toggle switch
mounted on the front panel just left of the AC outlet and below the pocket
that holds the sensor. It is fairly easy to do since the sensor  leads are
readily accessible. This switch lets me use the airstat normally above 40
degrees when off and down to 34-35 when on. The airstat seems to
sample the sensor about every 5-10 seconds and will indicate the change in
this timeframe.

***************
>From Jack Schmidling in HBD#1215

 I dug up the article by Mike Kenny on modifying the Hunter for lower temps
and decided to give it a try.  Upon opening the unit, I "discovered" a temp
cal pot but found this had only about a two degree range and it was already 
in the middle of that.

 Mike explains how to calculate (Ohms Law) the exact resistance for any temp,
 along with adding a switch to disable the mod.  I took the Schmidling way
and  simply soldered a 150K resistor across the sensor lead terminals and got

 lucky.  When programmed for 40F, the temp in the pint of water is exactly
40F  now.  The air temp is about 35F but I just ignore that and the beer temp
is  just the way I like it.

 It is a very simple mod and requires nothing more than removing two screws 
and soldering the resistor to very accessible terminals.  Getting it back
together takes a little "feel" because the battery terminals have to be 
fitted back into their connector but anyone with a little more finesse than a
gorilla should be able to do it.



Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1993 20:57:35 -0600 (UTC -06:00)
From: ROWLEY at kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Louis Pasteur

Hola, all.
	I just got a catalog from an antiquarian bookstore in Kansas City
called Glenn Books. No I don't work for them: I work at one of the Borders
bookshops, and stand to gain nothing for passing on this info. Anyway, item 
238 in their latest catalog is listed as "Pastuer, Louis. Studies on Fer-
mentation, the Diseases of Beer, Their Causes and Means of Preventing Them.
(title). Macmillan, London, 1879. First English edition. 8vo. Original
cloth, front flyleaf lacking, else a very good copy. Contemporary woodcut
portrait of Pastuer added as frontispiece with catalog clipping & notes on re
cto. $300"
	I was drooling until I hit the three bills part. That's a month's
rent for me, a poor grad student. Their address is 323 East 55th Street,
KC, MO  (816)444-4447. I have founf that their are a bit overpriced (!),
but not unreasonable about negotiating. Sorry for the typos: I'm recovering
from a weekend of mead, oatmeal stout, Duvel, Traquair House, MacAndrew's,
SA "Lambic" and a neb. of Corsendonk. Me fingers aren't yet working right.
It just occured to me that I might have been able to afford the book had I
not blown my cash on the beerpool fund. Oh, well. Hope someone can use this.

Matthew Rowley
Dept of Anthropology
University of Kansas
rowley at kuhub.cc.ukans.edu

Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1993 20:50:29 -0800 (PST)
From: Jeremy Ballard Bergsman <jeremybb at leland.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: ASBC and IBU's


Norm wrote that Byron Burch's methods were based on ASBC methods (according
to Burch) and asked what those were.  I don't have my copy of Malting and
Brewing Science with me, but no homebrewer's method has anything to do with
the ASBC method.  The ASBC method is a MEASUREMENT of the amount of the 
amount of bittering compounds in beer.  Methods like Burch's are ways of
trying to produce beers with a certain amount of bitterness.  The units
used by Burch and Rager are the expected IBU of the beer, if such a measurement
were made.  

My recollection of the the ASBC method is some kind of organic extraction
of degassed beer (with isooctane?) and single wavelength spectrophotometry
of the resulting organic phase.  Note that even this measure is only a 
surrogate for bitterness, as the ratio of bitternesses of the various 
bittering compounds is not the same as their ratios of absorbances.

What this means to me is that we, as homebrewers, needn't care how many IBU's
we really would have if we measured our beers.  All we need is a system that
produces a number that is aproximately linearly related to perceived bitterness
and is reproducible from batch to batch.  With such a system one can make
beers to a desired PERCEIVED bitterness, which is all we really care about.

I guess we care about one more thing, namely being able to communicate with
other homebrewers.  In this case IBU's are nice since (I think) most people
can at least convert to these "units".  Personally I find the discontinuity
of the Burch method distasteful; it seems very unrealistic.  The Rager as
modified by Garetz utilization curve seems the most intuitive to me.

Jeremy Bergsman

Return to table of contents


Date:         Sun, 14 Nov 93 19:53:38 PST
From: Ken Miller <KCMILLER%SJSUVM1.BITNET at cmsa.Berkeley.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Propane, natural gas, and toxic fumes

In HBD #1269, Andrew Baird writes:

>I recently built a burner for brewing.  I built it for (and tested it with)
>natural gas.  I've been reading literature on similar *propane* cookers and
>they all say for outdoor use only.  I assume this is because toxic levels of
>haxardous combustion products are produced, and I'm guessing that carbon
>monoxide is the main culprit.  My questions are as follows:
>
>1.  Is CO the ONLY gas/ byproduct I should be worrying about?
>
>2.  Is this a problem with both propane and natural gas?
>
>3.  When they say OUTDOORS ONLY, do I take that literally, or does an open
>garage qualify.

I ran this one by my local homebrew supply retailer. Propane
cookers of the "Cajun Cooker" type are _prodigious_ consumers
of oxygen. No problem outdoors, but a _big_ problem inside
a room without adequate ventilation. Quote: "In a sealed
room, the lack of oxygen would kill you before the carbon
monoxide did."

Note that the above applies specifically to _propane_
burners of the >150,000 BTU variety. I assume that the
number of BTUs, rather than fuel type, is the major
factor in oxygen consumption.

Of course, you probably wouldn't be running this in a sealed
room. I seem to recall, quite recently, a posting from
someone who brews in his basement (presumably with the
doors wide open). And one brewer I know permanently installed
a natural gas burner in his garage. But I would respectfully
suggest, and prudence would dictate, that you not try
operating any reasonably powerful burner inside an enclosed
room without first ensuring beyond any doubt both an adequate
oxygen supply (for both you and the burner) and adequate
ventilation for the exhaust gases. (Remember, CO2 isn't harmful
in and of itself...unless it's all you have to breathe.)

Ken Miller
kcmiller at sjsuvm1.sjsu.edu

DISCLAIMER: All opinions expressed above are mine alone. No one
at SJSU even listens to my opinions, much less endorses them.

Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1993 21:22:18 -0800 (PST)
From: Jeremy Ballard Bergsman <jeremybb at leland.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: good for yeast/good for beer

Andy Kailhofer wrote asking about his experience with aerating beer.  Here
in the Bay Area we have three brewpubs called Gordon Biersch (sp?).  (Those
in Pasadena, keep your eyes open.)  They make very good (IMHO), traditional
German Lagers.  I know they use regular Briess and GW malts and I always
wonder how they get their wonderful maltiness.  (It's not decoction mashing
because only some of their beers are decoction mashed and the others are at
least as malty.)  Unrelated to this question I was talking to the brewmaster
of the San Francisco outlet about pitching rates.  He told me that he likes
to underpitch and aerate very well!

Then I had a flash of insight: what if you can get the yeast to undergo a
bit of extra growth?  You can use more malt for the same amount of alcohol.
This might give you a bit more maltiness.  I asked him if this was the reason,
and he almost looked as if I had caught him in bed with my wife or something.
Then he answered that this was just the way he liked to do it; the rhythm of
the brewery or something.  In retrospect it doesn't seem like this would 
make much of a difference.  What does the digest think?  What about an 
experiment?

Jeremy Bergsman


Return to table of contents



End of HOMEBREW Digest #1272, 11/15/93