FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Free Speech Vs. "Professional Language" ("J. Andrew Patrick")
  Problems with Dark ales (John Walaszek)
  Reusable 5l kegs ... (Palme)
  Corona Recipe? (Fred Bucalos)
  Re: Al Again? (John DeCarlo                             )
  Brewpub info desired (gorman)
  temp step mash scorching (Chuck Wettergreen)
  New Brewer...Saga Continues (LUKASIK_D)
  Power Sparger (Tom Leith MIR/ERL 362-6965)
  Re: Geometry/high gravity (Jim Busch)
  Thanks/Creole/Stouts (Chris Pencis)
  Aluminum pots ("Bill Kitch")
  Specific Gravity Measurement ("Bill Kitch")
  early racking, ice-bath cooling, Barney Bashing (Jonathan G Knight)
  Sparkling Wine bottles (Earle M. Williams)
  no subject (file transmission) (dean goulding)
  Raw Honey vs Processed (Bob W Surratt)
  magazines (GNT_TOX_)
  Potential Extract of Dark Malts (dmorey)
  yard o' beer (Chris Lovelace)
  Extract experience (Chris Amley - 3M Telecommunications)
  New Amsterdam - New York Amber - Ideas? (Roy Harvey)
  Seltzer Carbonators (Roy Harvey)


Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
  (Articles are published in the order they are received.)
Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc.,
  to homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com, BUT PLEASE NOTE that if
  you subscribed via the BITNET listserver (BEER-L at UA1VM.UA.EDU),
  then you MUST unsubscribe the same way! 
If your account is being deleted, please be courteous and unsubscribe first.
Archives are available via anonymous ftp from sierra.stanford.edu.
  (Those without ftp access may retrieve files via mail from
  listserv at sierra.stanford.edu. Send HELP as the body of a
  message to that address to receive listserver instructions.)
Please don't send me requests for back issues - you will be silently ignored.
For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen at novell.physics.umr.edu



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1993 04:44:29 -40975532 (CST)
From: "J. Andrew Patrick" <andnator at genesis.Mcs.Com>
Subject: Free Speech Vs. "Professional Language"

Much to my surprise, since posting my 1st message about the blatant
censorship that I encountered at the AOL Beer Forum, several HBD
readers have expressed opionions that I "got what I deserved" for
using such terrible language.  Al Korzonas, Michael T. Lobo, and,
GNT_TOX%ALLOY.BITNET at PUCC.PRINECTON.EDU (whoever that is!) have
written (either publicly or privately) to indicate their opinions that:

1) AOL was justified in censoring me for using "profane" language, and/or
2) The HBD is "demeaned" by those who frequently use "profane" language,
     so we should all use "professional language" here, and/or
3) This is an AOL issue that has no business being discussed in the HBD.

All I did was say that I was "pissed off".  That's the worst of my
alleged "profanity".  Allow me to quote verbatim from Webster's New
Collegiate Dictionary, (c)1974 by G.&C. Merriam Webster Co:

"pissed off - adj. slang: ANGRY, DISAPPOINTED, DISGUSTED <a lot of
guys are _pissed_off_ at me 'cause I came in after them and made
corporal -Norman Mailer>"

Note that even as far back as 1974, Webster's did not feel that the term
deserved being labelled as vulgar or profane.  It would not surprise me
if even the "slang" label has been dropped in more recent editions.

Those of us who live and work on the Net value our electronic freedom of
speech very passionately.  People who know me in the real world know that I
am a very honest and opinionated person, who always says exactly what is on
his mind.  My close friends place high value on this trait.

I believe that I have an inalienable right to express myself in cyberspace
in the same manner as I do in real space.  This is just your basic First
Amendment principle applied to the on-line world.  If I am forced to
drastically alter my on-line persona because of a few prudes who don't
like seeing words like "orgasm" or "pissed off" in the HBD or AOL Beer
Forums, then I am being forced to live a lie, to pretend to be somebody
that I am not.

Is this REALLY what we want??

And if you still feel this discussion does not belong here, then please
keep your flames PRIVATE!!  I can be flamed DIRECTLY at "andnator at genesis.
mcs.com", or on either of my Home Brew U. BBS systems (listed below).
Public flames only serve to waste bandwidth and make the issue you are
are trying to get rid off reappear that much faster.
+--------------+---------------------------------+--------------+
|Sysop         |         Andrew Patrick          |       Founder|
|Home Brew Univ| AHA/HWBTA Recognized Beer Judge |Home Brew Univ|
|Midwest BBS   |  SW Brewing News Correspondent  | Southwest BBS|
|(708)705-7263 |Internet:andnator at genesis.mcs.com| (713)923-6418|
+--------------+---------------------------------+--------------+








Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 19 Dec 93 22:35 CST
From: akcs.wally at vpnet.chi.il.us (John Walaszek)
Subject: Problems with Dark ales

Hello everyone, I am looking for some help in determining why
I am having problems with Dark Ales.  I have brewed about
25 all-grain ales and every attempt at a dark one (3 stouts
and 1 porter) I have ended up very disappointed.  I brew alot of
pale ales and brown ales and these have all been very consistent.
 
I think my problem may have to do with water chemistry, Lately
I have used pre-boiled Chicago City water.  I usually do not
check ph and don't really add any mineral salts.
 
The problem is all 4 of these beers have had a distinctly
musky-like aroma and flavor.  None have really tasted as
roasty as I have intended.  The beers seem thin tasting
as well and maybe even faintly sour.  My usual procedure is
add add crushed grain to 3 gallons 175F water.  Rest at
153-155F for 90 minutes.  Sparge for about 45 minutes.
Boil 90 minutes.  Chill using chiller.
 
These are my last two that I have tried and I felt the recipes
should have produced a very full-bodied creamy roasty
delicious porter and stout.  Instead I find them flawed but
drinkable.
 
Porter 5.5 gallons OG: 1.052 FG: 1.012
- --------------------------------------
10.00 lbs Belgian 2-row Pale Ale Malt
10.00 oz  Belgian Black Patent Malt
 8.00 oz  Belgian Cara-Vienna Malt
 8.00 oz  English Dextrin
 8.00 oz  Belgian Cara-Munich Malt
 7.00 oz  Belgian Special-B Malt
 
 1.50 oz  Kent Goldings Pellets ( 60)  5.4%
 1.00 oz  Kent Goldings Pellets ( 30)  5.4%
 0.50 oz  Kent Goldings Pellets ( 15)  5.4%
 Wyeast #1084 Irish Ale
 
 
 
Oatmeal Stout 5.5 gallons OG: 1.052 FG: 1.014
- ---------------------------------------------
 8.50 lb  Belgian 2-row Pale Ale Malt
16.00 oz  Flaked Oats
16.00 oz  Belgian Roasted Barley
 6.00 oz  Belgian Chocolate Malt
 6.00 oz  Belgian Cara-Vienna Malt
 4.00 oz  Belgian Black Malt
 
 1.00 oz  Bullion Pellets ( 60) 9.2%
 Wyeast #1084 Irish Ale
 
 Any comments would be helpful, thanks!
 
 Wally

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 20 Dec 93 07:31:47 CST
From: palme at am1.icgmfg.mke.ab.com (Palme)
Subject: Reusable 5l kegs ...

Hi All!

I saw a pretty nifty little gadget on the shelf of my local homebrew 
shop/microbrewery.  (Ok, ok, so Dan shares floorspace with Lakefront.  Sip
and buy.  Sip and browse.  What a racket!)  It's a reusable 5l stainless
keg, similar to the "party kegs" one can purchase at the liquor store.  A
set of 4 comes with a resuable tapper/dispenser.  (I won't mention the
price, just yet)  So, any thoughts?  Ideas?  Anyone out there *have* one
of these?  It sure would be nice to get away from bottling 2 cases every
time.  I would see putting up two of these kegs per batch and then one
case of bottles for "dispersal."

Comments *always* appreciated ...

D.

- ---
Diane Palme, EIT                             You really think that A-B would
Design Engineer, Special Machines	     accept my opinions as their own?
Allen-Bradley Co.    (414) 382-2617          <sheesh!>  
dspalme at mke.ab.com
palme at am1.icgmfg.mke.ab.com

	Every now and then my hair color takes over and I cannot
		be held accountable for my actions.

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1993 09:14:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: Fred Bucalos <BUCALOFJ at SNYONEVA.CC.ONEONTA.EDU>
Subject: Corona Recipe?


	My brother has an affinity for "Corona" Mexican beer.  Does anyone have
a recipe for "Corona" or know of a recipe reference?  Many thanks in advance. 
Happy Holidays to all.   :-)

	Fred Bucalos
	e-mail:  bucalofj at snyoneva.cc.oneonta.edu


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 20 Dec 93 09:05:52 EST
From: John DeCarlo <jdecarlo at homebrew.mitre.org>
Subject: Re: Al Again?

Interestingly enough, I just saw a cooking show discussing pots and pans.  The
most highly recommended was copper with a stainless steel coating on the 
inside.  But the point being emphasized is that copper conducts heat best, 
then aluminum, then stainless steel (of the materials on hand for cooking). 
Specifically mentioned was that an all-stainless-steel pot will scorch food 
easily as the heat will come straight through from the bottom rather than 
spread out evenly.  So, there were lots of second-best alternatives, including
stainless with aluminum or copper bottom layers to spread heat evenly and 
aluminum pots that were either anodized or had non-stick surfaces applied.

In conclusion, plain aluminum pots are subject to staining or pitting with 
acidic foods; plain stainless steel can scorch/burn easily because of poor 
heat conductivity; some combination is probably best but properly treated 
aluminum shouldn't have the same problems as cheap/plain aluminum.
 
John DeCarlo, MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA--My views are my own
Fidonet:  1:109/131  Internet:  jdecarlo at mitre.org
When a cow laughs, does milk come out its nose?


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 20 Dec 93 09:27:09 EST
From: gorman at aol.com
Subject: Brewpub info desired

I'd appreciate any comments via private email on brewpubs you've got personal
experience with:

1. Inside th
e San Francisco city limits
2. Anywhere in the Seattle metro area.

Thanks,

Bill Gorman
gorman at aol.com

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 20 Dec 93 07:14:00 -0600
From: chuck.wettergreen at aquila.com (Chuck Wettergreen)
Subject: temp step mash scorching


When doing temp step mashes with my Cajun Cooker (160,000 btu's!) 
I've noticed that I frequently get mash sticking to the bottom of 
the kettle and charring. This happens even at the lowest levels of 
heat and the kettle suspended above the flame on bricks. Now I've 
found the solution to this problem.

I purchased a "pizza stone". This is a ceramic disk about 18" in 
diameter and about an inch thick (they come square too) that you 
place in your oven to heat up and duplicate a pizza oven like found 
at your favorite pizza shop. I put this on top of the Cajun Cooker 
and turned on the heat. The stone heats up and evenly distributes 
the heat. No scorch, no burn, just nice even heat applied uniformly 
to the bottom of the pan.

I purchased a "second" in the Chicago burbs at the Piano Factory 
outlet mall (Housewares Outlet) in St. Charles for $10. 
This store is just down the hall from the Corning Outlet 
that sells yards of ale and carboys inexpensively. Obviously, a first 
would cost more. They also have giant wooden spoons which are 
perfect for stirring stiff mashes...

Chuck 
 * RM 1.2 00946 *  Therapy helps but screaming obscenities is cheaper.

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1993 10:02:55 -0500 (EST)
From: LUKASIK_D at sunybroome.edu
Subject: New Brewer...Saga Continues

Thanks to all of your who responded dirctly to my first inquiry!  Just thought
I would give you an update:  The third batch, an Australian Ale (which by the 
way has changed color and looks much better now) developed a small amount of 
white colored mold in the neck of the 6 1/2 gal carboy.  I have no idea what 
caused this or if in factt it was mold (?) but since the krausen had settled
I deemed it prudent to rack to a secondary as soon as possible.  Since at this
time I only have one 6 1/2 gal primary and one 5 gal secondary (which had the 
Olde Ale in it) we ended up bottling the Olde Ale on Saturday (8 day ferment).
It had an ending SG of 1.022 abd alcohol of 5.25% (a lot lower than I was 
hoping for), was still quite sweet but still drinkable.  So far (48 hours) none
of the bottles have blown and I am keeping my fingers crossed as I am planning
on keeping it at room temp for a week before transfering to storage in the
basement.  I am hoping that the alcohol increases and the sweetness mellows
with some ageing in the bottle.  Any thoughts on this?

What could have caused the mold in the neck of the carboy?  I had given it a 2
day sanitation water soak with 2 tbls. of clorine, several good hot rinses with
the bottle washer, and immediately filled it again.  Is it possible that it 
wasn't mold in the first place?  Any other possibilities?  The beer by the way
tastes fine (in fact it seems to have more of the bitterness that I am looking
for) and doesn't appear to have any mold in it.  It has dropped to 1.015 SG
in 4 days and currently has about 4% alcohol.  It is clearing nicely in the
secondary and is obtaining a nice light amber color.  I must admit that the 
trup was some of the ugliest stuff I have every seen (reminiscent of things
I have seen in my 2 year olds diapers when he has been sick...UCK!!!)

I am remeding the 2 carboy problem by adding additional 5 gals. to I can also


try making some lagers.  

About to try the 4th batch...an IPA.

I think I'm hooked!!!!   Need to learn more patience...as my friend said "the 
name of this game is waiting"...I wanted to drink the first batch.

Doug
"SodBuster Suds"

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1993 09:19:23 -0600
From: trl at photos.wustl.edu (Tom Leith MIR/ERL 362-6965)
Subject: Power Sparger

Yesterday I experienced my first-ever set mash.  I was 
making an Oatmeal Stout, with 15% oatmeal.  It was the 
five-minute Quaker Oats oatmeal.  I lauter in a bottling 
bucket with a false-bottom plus a grainbag.  The first 
couple of  gallons of runnings didn't take too long, but 
after that, it slowed to an  imperceptible trickle.  Rats!!  
I need a

		 P o w e r  S p a r g e r !!

Rrrright, power sparger, oh yeahhh, arrgh..... (doing best 
Tim Allen impression I can muster).

I remembered reading that some large breweries can apply a 
partial vacuum underneath their grain bed to hurry things 
along, and I was thinking about how I could accomplish this 
before the sparge completed on its own.  I decided I 
couldn't.  Then I thought maybe I could push the sparge 
water through from the top.

I went and got a lid for the bucket, and drilled a 3/8" hole 
in the top.  Fetched my CO2 tank from the dispensing system 
(I keg), and stuffed a hose into the hole.  I fastened the 
lid onto the bucket well-enough to hold a little pressure, 
and SLOWLY cracked the low-pressure side valve open.    The 
lid bulged up some, and I waited.  Sure enough, the 
imperceptible trickle became perceptable, respectable even, 
and the sparge finished in about 40 minutes.

I suspect this could be adapted for use with picnic cooler 
mash-tuns too.  Anyway, FWIW, it worked once...

	t 


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1993 10:43:57 -0500 (EST)
From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: Re: Geometry/high gravity

> From: John Eustace <3JCE1 at QUCDN.QUEENSU.CA>
> Subject:      Brewery Geo/High Grav Brewing/Topping Up the 2ndary
> 
However, I didn't get any response to my query about brewery geometry.  
Again,
> I'm interested in any information you might have of the effects kettle geo-
metry and fermenter geometry have on the brewing process, from hop 
utilization


Mine are of equal height to width (mash tun/kettle, lauter tun/fermenter).
As systems are scaled up, they tend to become more shallow, 2-3 times the
width to height.  I have seen many variations on geometry used in many
good breweries, so I feel there is a lot of leeway for the designer. 
Pikes Place uses a fairly tall and narrow 3/4 BBl kettle.  Sierra 
uses a classic copper onion dome kettle, these tend to be shallow.  
Fermenter geometry can have a impact on the system.  The biggest issue
is where to place the chilling jackets, based on what type of fermenter
you are are using (unitanks should be jacketed differently than open
fermenters).  Even the style of beer and production techniques become
important when scaling up breweries.  Jacketing placement is significant
in terms of convection currents that develop inside the fermenter, and 
this is also dependent on geometry.
> 
>I'd also be interested in more information on High Gravity Brewing.  

I have been diluting 10% in the kettle, boil the last 20 min, and 
whirlpool/counter flow.  I have also on occaision, added more water 
into the fermenter via my counter flow chiller.  I suggest adding water
to the wort, prior to fermentation.  The pH can change when using much
greater amounts of water, and this might be cause to acidulate the 
water. 

>re:topping up secondary

I am not a fan of this, but I know many others do so with success. 
Top up with boiled water, or save additional wort to add.  I would
advise a CO2 balst into the secondary prior to racking if this is a 
concern.

> From: philb at pro-storm.metronet.com (Phil Brushaber)
> Subject: Secondary in Stainless Probs
> 
> I know that many of your secondary in stainless steel cornelius kegs.
> I like to do this as it takes up less space in my lagering refigerator.
> This summer I encountered this off-taste problem with a couple of
> American Lager's I brewed, did the primary in glass and then the
> secondary in stainless. The off-taste is hard to describe. At first
> I thought it was astringency, but it is more like a yeasty, metallic
> taste. The taste persists even after filtering through a .5 micron
> filter. It has happened when I've secondaried in stainless (about
> 5 total batches) but never when I've secondaried in glass (about
> 2 batches).

I have had some scale build up problems with my kegs, that required a 
good caustic/acid wash schedule.  Not sure if this is the cause of
the taste, check for problem weld areas. 


Good brewing,
Jim Busch  

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 20 Dec 93 10:21:59 CST
From: chips at coleslaw.me.utexas.edu (Chris Pencis)
Subject: Thanks/Creole/Stouts

Ok Folks, here we go...
        1. Happy Holidays...for those of you interesed in the creole
recipe, email me and I will reply with it when I get back in Jan.
        2. I got my results back from my first competition (Austin Brew
Ha Ha - my 6th batch, an extract/specialty grain brown ale) and I'm
happy.  My brew came out with a 25, and I think that I would have been
scored higher if I had subclassified the brown ale category (english
american etc) but it was between styles and I felt like I would have 
been guessing as to style anyway...(I cant try all these micros to 
help me define my styles in Texas - relatively few are sold here). 
Point being that I got nice beer reviews, no off flavors or infections.
This makes me feel that I've got the essentials down - I have the HBD
community to thank for this one - THANKS!
        3. Semi-related literature: *A Natural History of the Senses*
by Diane Ackerman.  An excellent book which goes into the nuances of 
sensation - particularly relevant to we brewers who are dabbling with 
the alchemy of hops, malt etc to produce our magic are the chapters on 
smell and taste.  Well worth an afternoon perusal in the library or 
bookstore - ISBN 0-679-73566-6. Standard disclaimers apply here - just
a happy reader.
        4. Advice on Stout recipes tried from the Cat's Meow or anywhere
else would be appreciated as I am looking at trying to brew my 1st.  I
have a hankering to make something similar to Sam Smiths (is this dry or
sweet? honest - I need to know....) extract recipes and private e-mail
preferred.
                                Thanks all      Chris
|Chris Pencis 				chips at coleslaw.me.utexas.edu |
|University of Texas at Austin		Robotics Research Group	     |

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1993 11:32:56 -0600 (CST)
From: "Bill Kitch" <kitchwa at bongo.cc.utexas.edu>
Subject: Aluminum pots

There's some interesting information on the use of aluminum ware in Dave
Miller's column in the latest _Brewing Techniques_ and in Papazian's Doctor
whater-it-is column in the latest _Zymurgy_.  The summary of both articles
is that there is no evidence that using aluminum kettles will adversly
affect beer flavor.  Commercial brewery's don't use aluminum because it is
attacked by the caustic cleaners that they use.  Certainly stainless steel
is more durable an more inert.  So it sound like this may be just another
myth propagated about the homebrew community.  (FWIW I'm saving up for a
SS pot.)

By the way:  be very careful about what you read in supplier's catalogues.
They often suffer from the same lack of knowledge that the rest of do.

Sante' WAK

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1993 11:32:53 -0600 (CST)
From: "Bill Kitch" <kitchwa at bongo.cc.utexas.edu>
Subject: Specific Gravity Measurement

In HBD #1301 reeves at lanl.gov (Geoff Reeves) writes

[snip]
>Undisolved particles (including colloids) do not affect the measurement of
>specific gravity. A easy to visualize example is to imagine a lake of pure
[snip]

This is not correct. Both suspended (undisolved) solids and dissovled solids
will affect the specific gravity measurements.  That is so long as they
remain suspended in solution.  In fact this phenomenon is used to measure
the size of colloidal soil particles.  If you have any doubts about this
try the following.  Take a trub laden sample off of the bottom on you
boiler shake it well to suspend all the solids and quickly measure the
specific gravity (before the junk settles out).  Then leave the sample sit
until the junk has all settled to the bottom of the sample tube.  Now
measure the specific gravity again.  You will find that the second reading
gives a lower Sg than the first.  The difference may or may not be large
enough to be of concern but suspended solid definetly do affect the
measured Sg.

Also on the subject of temperature corrections.  If one is measuring Sg at
ale fermentation temps then the correction is small (.001 or .002)  if,
however, one is measuring the the Sg of sparge runnings or boiling wort the
corrections can be quite large (like .015 or more).  So don't blow off the
correction if you're trying to boil wort down to right OG!  By the way,
sierra.stanford.edu has a file with a table of Sg corrections and a
polynomial fit.  The file is /pub/homebrew/docs/sg_vs_temp.

Sante' WAK

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1993 10:47:02 -0500 (cdt)
From: Jonathan G Knight <KNIGHTJ at AC.GRIN.EDU>
Subject: early racking, ice-bath cooling, Barney Bashing
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Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 20 Dec 93 9:43:41 MST
From: Earle M. Williams <earlew at drc.usbm.gov>
Subject: Sparkling Wine bottles

To continue the thread on domestic vs European "Champagne" bottles, 
another fine candidate is the Martinelli's Sparkling Cider bottle.
They even come with a crown cap rather than cork and bracket.

FWIW
Earle
- --
Earle M. Williams
U.S. Bureau of Mines
Denver, Colorado  USA
(Internet) earlew at drc.usbm.gov

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1993 09:58:40 -0500 (EST)
From: okra at genesis.nred.ma.us (dean goulding)
Subject: no subject (file transmission)


NO TEAM. NO BUD.

FYI, a boycott of Anheuser Bush products is being organized in New
England to protest New England Patriots owner James Busch
Orthwein's attempts to sell the Patriots to Stan Kroenke and move
the team to St Louis.  As reported by Will McDonough in the Boston
Globe 12/18/93 p. 67, player agent Randy Vataha asks to start the
boycott Sunday  at  1 and continue until the team is sold to an
ownership that will keep it here.  Drop off points will be
announced where fans can drop off any Anheuser-Bush products that
will be trucked to a spot near the stadium and dumped to
demonstrate to Orthwein our opposition.  Orthwein who is the 3rd
largest stockholder of AB, lost a bid for a new NFL franchise last
month and seems willing to risk a number of lawsuits(TM), including
breaking his lease in Foxboro, to move the team.

"Tell you friendly bartender to serve something else.  Tell the guy
who owns your neighborhood pub or local package store not to order
Busch products..."   Amen!  Besides, the local breweries and
brewpubs can always use the business!

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 20 Dec 93 10:54:14 PST
From: Bob W Surratt <Bob_W_Surratt at ccm.hf.intel.com>
Subject: Raw Honey vs Processed


Text item: Text_1

     Season's Greetings all!
     
     Can anyone tell me the difference in raw honey vs. the processed 
     variety?  Is the raw lower in sugar content since it hasn't been 
     boiled, driving off some of the water?
     
     Thanks for your help,
     
     Bob Surratt  Orangevale, CA

Return to table of contents


Date:     Mon, 20 Dec 93 14:32 EST
From: <GNT_TOX_%ALLOY.BITNET at PUCC.PRINCETON.EDU>
Subject:  magazines

Two basic questions for you guys:

1- Is it possible to buy Zymurgy, without having to join the AHA.

2- What do you people think of _Brewing_Techniques_ magazine?


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1993 12:39:29 -0600
From: dmorey at iastate.edu
Subject: Potential Extract of Dark Malts


Greetings fellow homebrewers and beer lovers,

	This is my first posting on HBD.  I have been doing all grain
brewing for about a year and a half and have a question about expected
extract from dark grains.  I have compliled a list which was created
by averaging values from multiple sources.  Most sources i have found
don't cover potential extract of dark malts very much.  So I would
like to hear the wisdom of the brewers out there.  Here is the list I
have compliled up to this date:

Ingredient:			pt. gallons / lb
Malt extract				35
Dry spray malt				42
Corn sugar				37
Cane sugar (yuk)			44
Brown sugar				41
Rice syrup				36
Dextrin powder				42
Pale malt				31
Lager malt				31
Munich malt				26
Mild ale malt				27
Crystal malt				22
Wheat malt				34 (this seems high)
Cara pils malt				23
Roast barley				27 (isn't this high also?)
Chocolate malt				27           "
Black patent				27           "
Honey					38
Molasses				45

	I would like to thank all of in advance.  I hope other people
in our group will find this information useful.

_______________________________________________________________________________

Dan A. Morey		Reminding you to drink 2 to 3 beers a day.
dmorey at iastate.edu	According to a recent study this will reduce
			your chance of a heart attack by 50%!
			CHEERS!!!!!!!!
_______________________________________________________________________________


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1993 15:38:26 -0500
From: lovelace at pop.nih.gov (Chris Lovelace)
Subject: yard o' beer

>Date: Fri, 17 Dec 93 15:34:01 -0500
>From: "Daniel K. Yee" <yee at a1.relay.upenn.edu
>Subject: yards & 1/2 yards


>Hi all,

>I've been thinking of getting a yard or 1/2 yard beer glass (with stand) 
>for my brother as a birthday gift.  What are the best deals out there?  
>Thanks in advance.

>                        Dan "Sven" Yee


You can get yard, 1/2 yard, and foot glasses with the wooden stand for a
pretty good price at a Corning/Revere outlet (for those of you near DC, I
think one of these just opened up at Potomac Mills, but I haven't been by
yet).  They have good prices on glass carboys, too.  I'm not sure exacly
what the prices for these items are, but I do remember they are quite a bit
lower than those at the local homebrew shop.

Chris



Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1993 20:59:18 -0600
From: ccamley at mmm.com (Chris Amley - 3M Telecommunications)
Subject: Extract experience

In HBD1301 Todd Carlson asked for comments re different commercial malt
extracts.  I'm interested in this topic, too, especially regarding
Northwestern-brand extracts.  What are they made from?  Two-row or six-row
barley.  If two-row, what is the variety and origin?  What is the yield
(degrees OG/pound/gallon)?  Are they consistent from batch to batch and
year to year?  For context, I'm brewing pale ale (using Edme DMS) and
porter (using Munton & Fison Light).  The owner of my homebrew store has
been trying to get answers to these questions, but without luck, and has
gently steered me away from Northwestern.

And, yes, I know I wouldn't be asking this question if I were brewing
all-grain... 

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1993 19:27:25 -0800
From: royh at netcom.com (Roy Harvey)
Subject: New Amsterdam - New York Amber - Ideas?


I just tried a very tasty new microbrew that I bought at my local grocery
store,  It's called "New Amsterdam - New York Amber Beer".  Very nice!  Has
anyone else tried it?  I'd love to take a crack at making an extract clone
of it.  The neck label reads "New Amsterdam contains only the finest
ingredients: two-row roasted barley malt and Cascade and Hallertauer hops."
I guess that's a start!

The label continues, "New Amsterdam has been consistently judges to be among
the finest beers in the world."  Yes, it is very good...

Cheers!
(and Happy Holidays!)
Roy Harvey
Mountain View, CA

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1993 19:29:13 -0800
From: royh at netcom.com (Roy Harvey)
Subject: Seltzer Carbonators


Anyone have experience using the soda water/CO2 bottles to quick carbonate
beer?  Just a thought...  Anyone know a good source for these little setups?

Cheers!
(and Happy Holidays!)
Roy Harvey
Mountain View, CA

Return to table of contents



End of HOMEBREW Digest #1303, 12/21/93