FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  What I said (or didn't) (Mark Garetz)
  Spontaneous heat produced during mashing? (Steven Tollefsrud)
  WATE ????? (ambroser)
  Killian taste-alike recipe sought (Jim Sims)
  Mini/micro malter (Robert Schultz)
  mass. suppliers (budinski1)
  Brew Store Near Boston (George Kavanagh O/o)
  Hop Head Room (George Kavanagh O/o)
  hops revisited ("Edward F. Loewenstein")
  Re: Weizens (Jim Busch)
  brewpub visit-part 1 (RONALD DWELLE)
  brewpub visit-part 2 (RONALD DWELLE)
  cookers (skemp) <skemp at hp7001.stortek.com>
  Recipe Request: Anchor Liberty and Alsatian (Jack Skeels)
  Re: Alc. % Labelling (Richard Kasperowski)
  donating homebrew (?) ("McCaw, Mike")
  Sterile Wort/cap boils (Doug Lukasik)
  Boiling Caps (Art Steinmetz)
  Opening a Brewpub (Art Steinmetz)
  Chico yeast (Chris Lovelace)
  Canning wort, Kegging pressures (Eric Wade)
  Intro and Wort Chilling (Joe Johnson)


Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
  (Articles are published in the order they are received.)
Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc.,
  to homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com, BUT PLEASE NOTE that if
  you subscribed via the BITNET listserver (BEER-L at UA1VM.UA.EDU),
  then you MUST unsubscribe the same way! 
If your account is being deleted, please be courteous and unsubscribe first.
FAQs, archives and other files are available via anonymous ftp from 
  sierra.stanford.edu. (Those without ftp access may retrieve files via 
  mail from listserv at sierra.stanford.edu.  Send HELP as the body of a 
  message to that address to receive listserver instructions.) 
Please don't send me requests for back issues - you will be silently ignored.
For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen at novell.physics.umr.edu



----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Thu, 10 Mar 94 12:56:41 PST
From: Mark Garetz <mgaretz at hoptech.com>
Subject: What I said (or didn't)

Glenn Tinseth writes:

>On another subject in the same Digest, Spencer Thomas lists wort gravity
>as a factor in alpha acid utilization. He mentions that Mark Garetz has
>asserted that wort gravity is not an issue, despite anecdotal evidence to the
>contrary. My position on this issue is that Spencer is right and Mark is 
>wrong. The reason is obvious, once you think about it. The higher the
>gravity of the wort, the more of everything in solution. Proteins, sugars, and 
>all kinds of other stuff.

I never, ever stated that wort gravity didn't have an effect.  My point was
that wort gravity didn't matter *in the boil*, but did matter greatly
*during fermentation*.  I too, like Glenn, Spencer, Rager, most homebrewers
and even a lot of the professional beer scientists believed that boil
gravity did matter.  As Glenn alludes to, it seems obvious.  I set out
to examine the brewing research, not to prove the boil gravity effect
wrong, but simply to see if Rager's correction factor was right.

Well I couldn't find any research that showed boil gravity having an effect.
I could find a few annecdotal statements to that effect, but they were just
that and not supported by research.

*What I did find* was a study that set out to prove if it did have an effect.
They found that it didn't.  The *did* find that losses during ferementation
were directly related to the wort gravity.  The reason was that isos were
scrubbed out of the wort by the CO2.  The isos stayed in the "dirty head"
where, due to oxidation, they hardened and became insoluble.  Most were
then pushed to the sides of the fermenter where they stuck.  Those that
fell back through the beer were not redissolved.  So these isos were lost.

I don't have the reference here with me or I'd post it.  It was from the
Journal of the Institute of Brewing.  I'll post it tonight.

I seem to have confused everybody with my original posts on this subject,
so lets be perfectly clear here:

Wort gravity *does* have an effect.  A big one.  But the gravity during
the boil is not what matters, it is the gravity during fermentation.

Mark

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 11 Mar 94 10:55:41 +0100
From: vlsisj!fleurie!steve_t at uucp-gw-2.pa.dec.com (Steven Tollefsrud)
Subject: Spontaneous heat produced during mashing?


Further to Chuck Wettergreen's discussion of what
seemed to be heat production during mashing...

I find this to be a very curious phenomena. Perhaps there
are some chemists out there who could offer an expert
explanation for this.

Wouldn't the decomposition of complex starch molecules into
less complex, fermentable sugar molecules by the catalytic
action of the enzymes naturally result in the release of
energy (ie. heat) during mashing, thereby increasing the
temperature of the contents of the mash tun without the addition
of hotter strike water??

Are "heat of hydration" and "slaking heat" related? Are these
seperate contributors to spontaneous heat production as well?

Steve Tollefsrud
VLSI Technology, Inc.
Valbonne, France
e-mail: steve_t at fleurie.compass.fr

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 11 Mar 1994 08:42:21 -0500
From: ambroser at apollo.dml.georgetown.edu
Subject: WATE ?????

Andy Klingerman rights, pertaing two microwaving bottle caps:

> There is no problem microwaving bottle caps as long as they are under a
> few inches of wate.
 
WATE??? What is "wate"??? Perhaps he means WATER?????

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 11 Mar 94 09:09:15 EST
From: sims at scra.org (Jim Sims)
Subject: Killian taste-alike recipe sought

Anyone have a taste-alike for Killians? A friend likes it a lot, so I
figured I'd give it a shot....

jim

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 11 Mar 1994 08:29:58 -0600 (CST)
From: Robert Schultz <Robert.Schultz at usask.ca>
Subject: Mini/micro malter

Help...
	Does anyone out there have reference material regarding malting grains?
I'm looking for process, temperature/moisture limits, equipment etc.
	Also interested in the process and temperature for specialty adjuncts
like roasted barley.

please email responses:
	 Robert.Schultz at usask.ca

	Thanks.  Will summarize and post results.

Rob.

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 11 Mar 94 09:00:38 EST
From: budinski1 at aol.com
Subject: mass. suppliers

TO:EVANS CHRIS 

THERE IS A SUPPLIER OF HOMEBREW MATERIALS LOCATED IN  WEST ROXBURY CALLED
BARLEYMALT AND VINE AND ANOTHER IN WOBURN CALLED BEER AND WINE HOBBY. IF YOU
WANT THE ADDRESS AND PHONE # E-MAIL ME AT BUDINSKI1 at AOL.COM. DON'T FORGET
TAXES ARE HIGH IN MASS. YOU MAY SAVE SOME $ BY BUYING IN NH OR MAIL ORDER!!
CHEERS.i

Return to table of contents


Date: 11 Mar 1994 10:01:33
From: George Kavanagh O/o <George.Kavanagh at omail.wang.com>
Subject: Brew Store Near Boston

Good supplier of Brew stuff in the "Northwest of Boston"
area is:

Beer & Wine Hobby
180 New Boston Street, Rear
Woburn MA  01801

(Woburn straddles Rt. 128 at its junction with Rt 93.)

Phone: (617)-933-8818
FAX: (617)-662-0872
Mail Orders: 1-800-523-5423


It is located off the loading dock of a freight transfer
company (or such), and has a large clientel.  Good selection
of beer & winemaking ingredients, supplies, & advice.
Knowledgable, active brewers on staff.

Prices are competitive.

Standard Disclaimer #1 applies.

 -gk

(there are other suppliers nearer to & in Boston itself.)

Return to table of contents


Date: 11 Mar 1994 10:08:26
From: George Kavanagh O/o <George.Kavanagh at omail.wang.com>
Subject: Hop Head Room

In RE; growing hops on a 4 foot fence:

A 4 foot fence will only frustrate your hops within two
weeks of sprouting.  In the spring, hops can grow 5" or more a
day, and they want to grow straight UP.  They do not take
kindly to horozontal training.  I would suggest planting 2
tall, (13-15 foot, guywired) posts at the ends of your
intended hopgarden, and run a wire between the posts
at their tops.  Then drop wires (or twine) from the top
wire down to the individual hills, for the bines to twine up.

 -happy hopping!

 -gk

Return to table of contents


Date:         Fri, 11 Mar 94 09:18:56 CST
From: "Edward F. Loewenstein" <SNREDLOW at MIZZOU1.missouri.edu>
Subject:      hops revisited

Greetings to all you hopheads!
  Just wanted to add my $0.02 once again.

  Coyote asked about hop rhizomes.  Rhizomes are modified stems which are
usually found on or just below the surface of the soil.  Therefore, to
collect them, I personally don't go more than a few inches deep.  As far
as cutting the rhizome is concerned, don't worry about infection or
'painting' the cut end, it is no more necessary than tarring the scar
left by prunning a tree (read: completely unnecessary!).  Most nursery
grown plants are root prunned for ease of outplanting, this practice has
the added benifit of stimulating lateral root production.  Harvesting
hop rhizomes, unless done to excess, will probabley give you a more
compact, efficient root system than you had to start with (not to mention
that it will keep your hops out of the tomatoe patch).  If rather than
root prunning, you prefer to place root barriers to keep your hops from
spreading uncontrollably, I have found that a four inch deep piece of
metal flashing is sufficient to control the wandering rhizomes.

  John Sims asked about growing hops on a chainlink fence.  No problem!
Hop bines are easily trained.  Your biggest problem will be removing
the dead bines at the end of the season.  Don't under any circumstances
allow the dead bines to remain in place over winter.  Many insect and
disease problems will over-winter in or on the dead plant material and
reinfect your hops in the spring.

Hoping for a hoppy 4th of July,

Ed
SNREDLOW at MIZZOU1.MISSOURI.EDU

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 11 Mar 1994 11:53:53 -0500 (EST)
From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: Re: Weizens

> From: bacco at md.fsl.noaa.gov (Corby Bacco)
> Subject: Extract effeciency
> 
> Extraction efficiency: 59.52%       Extraction efficiency: 96.00%
> 
> Now then mine is pretty poor alright and his seems very unrealistic.
> So what gives?  Is the program off?  Is the recipe as written unattainable?
> Both?  At any rate my extract eff. is low.  I checked the P.H. at dough in
> and it was ~5.5 (used P.H. papers).  Oh BTW, mash procedure was step infusion,
> with rests at 122 (1/2 hour), 147 (1/2 hour), and 160 (till conversion,
> checked via iodine test), mashout at 170.  Sparged with ~6 gals  at  180, last 
> gal sparged was S.G. 1.010 (temp corrected).  I've had this low extract 
> problem with all my all-grain beers (about 8 to date) and finally decided 
> to ask for help :)  Ideas?  Many thanks.

Warners numbers are optimistic, and it assumes a decoction mash.  Try 
holding at 147 for a full hour, or follow his single decoction program.
I would still adjust the grain bill based on your systems efficiency.

> From: "Glen A. Wagnecz, X6616" <wagnecz at PICA.ARMY.MIL>
> Subject:  Recipe: Cat Claw Wheat
> 
> 		Cat Claw Wheat*
> 
> 	15 pounds of wheat malt
> 	10 pounds of pale 6-row malt
> 
> 	1.5 oz. of fresh '93 cascade whole hops
> 	0.75 oz. of fresh '93 tettnanger whole hops
> 
> 	3/4 # Laaglander light DME
> 	Wyeast #3056
> 
> 1. Make a starter with the 3/4 # of DME and 1 gallon of water.  Boil
> down to 3/4 of a gallon and cool with an airlock in place.  Pitch a
> _well puffed_ pack of 3056.  Let this go for two days.
> 
> 6. Turn off heat and add the tettnanger.  Let steep for about
> 15-20 minutes.  Run through cooling unit to yield three four-
> gallon cuts to three 5 gallon fermenters.  OG on my last run
> was 1.056.

My own opinion is that the Tettang would be better in the kettle
than the Cascades, and the finsh hops should be ommitted entirely.
> 
> 7. Pitch 1 qrt. of well mixed starter to each fermenter.  Ferment
> at 70 F. for 2-3 days, until things settle down.  Lower temp to
> 67-68 and ferment for another 11-12 days (total 2 week ferment).
> I use the brewcap system (except for stouts!) and tap the yeast 
> that settles.  Final gravity should be around 1.015 to 1.018.

It can also be down to 1.012-1.014, 1.018 sounds a bit high.

> Subject: What style is a "Kaiser"??
> 
> I was in Pittsburg at the Allegheny Brewing Company and had what they called
> a "Kaiser". It was a lager, cloudy white (like a Celis White), highly
> carbonated and a good hop flavor (dry hopped or very late boil hops). It was
> unfiltered and very tasty. It is one of their specialty beers (not available
> year round).
> 
> Anyone know what AHA style this would fall into?? Anyone know how to recreate
> this one??

Great brewery!! Its Kaiser Pils.  A Pils beer.  It uses Hersbruker Hallertau.
Pils malt, decoction mashing, maybe a small bit of caramel malt.  Use
Weihenstephan 34/70.  Lager at 32F for 6 weeks.  Go for 35-45 IBUs.  Dont
add aroma hops later than 15 min to cast out.

Enjoy,

Jim Busch


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 11 Mar 94 12:17:06 EST
From: dweller at GVSU.EDU (RONALD DWELLE)
Subject: brewpub visit-part 1

     long message follows--old timers & diehards may want to skip to 
     something interesting.
     
        Our local homebrewski club, through the efforts of our 
     fearless leader Todd Carlson, visited the newest Michigan 
     brewpub, The Grand Rapids Brewery, for lunch and a tour, 
     yesterday. All other brewery tours I've ever taken have been led 
     by a PR-type who usually knows less than the yeast about brewing. 
     But, we were led by GRBrewery brewmeister himself. (Maybe what 
     follows is old-hat for the technoids in HBD-land, but it was 
     eye-opening for me.)
        First impression of the place is all shiny brass and stainless 
     and tiles and squeaky clean. Brewmeister wouldn't talk money, but 
     my guess is a minimum of six-figures and probably more for the 
     brew-room equipment alone (there went my plans to open my own 
     brewpub). Basic equipment was a mash pot (7.5 barrels), a boiler 
     (7.5 barrels), and four fermenting tanks (15 barrels each). All 
     talk was in terms of "barrels" with one barrel equal to ~31 
     gallons (I might be off on this figure?). I think he said all the 
     equipment came from Canada (?). 
        Their mash is a plain, simple infusion mash. Calculate the 
     temp of the grain, heat the water in the boil tank, pump it into 
     the mash tun, so the mash starts at 162-degrees. They get about a 
     5-degree drop during the mash--the tun has zero insulation or 
     jacket. One stir midway with a painted canoe paddle. Brewmeister 
     wasn't the least interested in other types of mashing--matter of 
     efficiency I suspect. Then they recirculate the mash water until 
     the grain bed "sets" (sounded like they moved a lot of water 
     during this part), until they get a clear run off. Water from the 
     boil tank meanwhile is transferred to a hot-water holder, where 
     it drops to about 180-degrees. Sparging is from the hot-water 
     holder at 170-180 degrees, with the wort pumped directly to the 
     boil pot. I think Brewmiester said they use 10 barrels of water 
     to end up with 7.5 barrels of wort. (Incidentally, they use 
     straight Grand Rapids city water (nee Lake Michigan) (normally 
     soft), which they feed through a simple filter to de-chlorinate, 
     and then treat with some hardener salts (depending on the type of 
     beer they're making).
        Boil is a standard 1-hour, with hop pellets (looked like 
     rabbit food), both during the boil and for finishing at end. 
     Brewmeister said they were going to switch to hop plugs (though 
     I'm not clear about why--couldn't ask questions fast enough).
        Out of the boiler through hose, through the neatest damn 
     chiller. This was a compact little finned-radiator-looking 
     device, maybe 15" by 6" by 24" tall, water cooled, and they chill 
     7.5 barrels (230 gallons) of water from 212 to 70 degrees in 30 
     minutes! Fins is obviously the way to go for a wort chiller!
        Coming out of the chiller, the wort gets aerated by pumping 
     filtered air into it (not oxygen!), and then the wort is pumped 
     from the bottom up into the ferment tank. They pitch the yeast 
     when there's about 1 foot of wort in the bottom of the tank, then 
     keep pumping. Since the ferment tanks hold 15 barrels, they often 
     (depending on type and demand) add a second batch of wort a 
     couple hours later (after another mash and boil), just pumping it 
     in through the bottom of the tank (the yeast is already going by 
     this time, Brewmeister said. He bragged about how active their 
     yeast strain was!)
        Interesting about the ferment-- they do only one-tank 
     fermenting (no primary/secondary) and they control the rate of 
     ferment with temperature. Unlike the mash tank, the fermenting 
     tanks are jacketed, and they can pump refrigerant or hot water 
     through the jackets to control temperature of the fermenting 
     wort. I wasn't clear why they did that, except to control the 
     blow-off which I imagine could get pretty spectacular with 400+ 
     gallons perking away. But the Brewmeister described gradually 
     lowering the temperature down to about 50-degrees until the 
     hydrometer tells them fermenting is done; then they quickly lower 
     the temperature to about 35, which causes the yeast to drop out 
     (that's when they recover yeast for re-use). They use only 
     American Ale yeast, and normally recover a couple gallons of it 
     off the bottom of the tank (they drain off trub and some yeast 
     about midway through the ferment). Brewmeister said they had 
     bought new cultures only once since starting about 6 months ago. 
     Incidentally, for me the best indicator of the size of the 
     operation was their "air lock" (they were fermenting a greenie 
     for St. Patrick's coming up). Their air lock is a 7-gallon carboy 
     filled with water, with a 1" plastic hose stuck down to the 
     bottom. You wouldn't believe the amount of gas 7.5 barrels puts 
     out--it made the carboy dance. Only one of the fermenters had 
     such an airlock--the others they scavenge the gas.
     ...to be continued...

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 11 Mar 94 12:19:05 EST
From: dweller at GVSU.EDU (RONALD DWELLE)
Subject: brewpub visit-part 2

     long message blah blah blah skip
     ...continued from yesterday....
     out--it made the carboy dance. Only one of the fermenters had 
     such an airlock--the others they scavenge the gas.
        When ferment's done, they pump the beer directly to storage 
     tanks in the cooler, passing it through a humongous diatomaceous 
     (sp?) filter. Brewmeister said the filtering is just for clearing 
     for appearance sake, and there's enough yeast left in the beer 
     that it would ferment if they'd let it. (they artificially 
     carbonate it, at the tap).
        It was interesting to me that there was zero aging at 
     "ale-temperatures." The beer went directly into 15-barrel tanks 
     in the walk-in cooler at ~35-40 degrees, and stayed there until 
     needed, as little as 1 week! Depending on demand, the big cooler 
     tanks are run directly to the bar's tap, or sometimes they'll 
     transfer the beer to regular barrels and then to the bar tap. 
     (They had a neat 4-barrel cleaner in the cooler). BTW, they use 
     no bleach for cleaning but instead use some iodine-type thing and 
     something that might have been like B-Bright, and three water 
     rinses (sorry, couldn't ask questions fast enough to get all the 
     details).
        Other stuff--Brewmeister said they will not do lagers because 
     lagers occupy the fermenters and storage tanks too long--only ale 
     types. I also didn't know that brew-pubs are limited to 2000 
     barrels a year (they are expecting to do about 1800-1900 their 
     first year). Don't know if this is a federal law or a Michigan 
     law. (The 2000 controls the size of the equipment--no sense in 
     getting more or bigger tuns, boil pots, fermenters) Also, brew 
     pubs cannot sell to anyone else--Brewmeister said that they could 
     not even sell beer to other restaurants in their own chain (this 
     pub is owned by Shelde's, with manymanymany restaurants 
     throughout Michigan and maybe nearby states). If they wanted to 
     sell to others or go over 2000 barrels, they would have to get a 
     micro-brewery license, but then they couldn't operate a pub or 
     sell other-people's beers or serve food, as they do now. 
     Brewmeister, btw, was totally new to brewing, trained during the 
     first two months of operation by working with an expert provided 
     by the equipment seller. Brewmeister was late 20's/ early 30's, 
     and I'm ashamed to say I've forgotten his name (old age is hell), 
     maybe "Harry," (which is why I've been calling him just 
     "Brewmeister"). He was very knowledgeable, though when he found 
     out our fearless leader was a PhD in Chemistry, I think he was a 
     bit intimidated, cautious from then on.
        I sampled five of their beers. The first was sort of like a 
     tasty Bud-clone, which the Brewmeister almost sneered at but said 
     was popular with the yuppies; second was a very very good pale 
     ale called "Thornapple Gold"; third was an amber (can't recall 
     the name--"Amber Something") which was so-so; fourth was a porter 
     which was very good; and fifth was a raspberry beer, interesting 
     and drinkable (I liked, others in the group didn't).
        I'll go back.
        And if anyone can figure out how to make a finny-wort-cooler 
     on the cheap, let me know. 

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 11 Mar 94 10:19:11 MST
From: Steve Kemp (skemp) <skemp at hp7001.stortek.com>
Subject: cookers

Hi brewers! does anyone out there have the beer cooker as seen in the Brewers
Resource catalog page 33 ????   If you do, I would like to hear from you as to
how well it works. Private e-mail is fine < skemp at n33.stortek.com > TIA.

I have a half barrel sankey keg and cannot find a cooker locally that will 
handle the 16 inch width of the keg. I would appreciate any other suggestions
as to where to look also.

Hoppy Brewing!    Steve Kemp   skemp at n33.stortek.com

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 11 Mar 94 12:20 EST
From: Jack Skeels <0004310587 at mcimail.com>
Subject: Recipe Request: Anchor Liberty and Alsatian

Greetings from LA (Land of Armageddon),

I'm looking for some recipe recommendations for two specific beer types:

        Anchor Liberty Ale  --  Great hops!

and

        An Alsatian beer, either like Kronenburg's 1664, or something in an
        ale.  I do have some BrewTek Saison Ale yeast -- what would this
        work well with??

I do have CATS2, so if you know of a good one (for either of the above
beers) in there, I'd appreciate the tip as well.

TIA, and good brews to you!

Jack Skeels
JSKEELS at MCIMAIL.COM
        Don't Drink and Drive on the Information Super Highway

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 11 Mar 94 11:06:29 EST
From: Richard Kasperowski <richk at icad.com>
Subject: Re: Alc. % Labelling


   I happened to notice something the other day while I was trying to find
   something paletable in Miller Light Ice (it tasted, IMNSHO, like an
   aluminum flavored club soda with a little bit of hops) - The can had
   quite prominently on the side, 5.5% Alc.  Now, does this strike anyone
   as new, or have I just never, ever, noticed alcohol percentage labelling
   on any other beers produced or sold in the states?  [etc.]

A recent article in either the Wall Street Journal or the Boston Globe
implied that it is now legal to state the alcohol content on a
beer-bottle label.  The article's focus was that Miller's (or maybe one
of the others) TV ad showed the label, which showed the alcohol
content.  Although it might now be legal to include it on the label,
it is apparently illegal to advertise the alcohol content - they're
not allowed to promote a beer based on its alcohol content.  One of
the government agencies that cares about such things was
investigating... 

- -- Rich Kasperowski     richk at icad.com     617-868-2800x304

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 11 Mar 94 12:03:00 PST
From: "McCaw, Mike" <mccaw at wdni.com>
Subject: donating homebrew (?)


I already know I can't sell my homebrew, but do the BATF regs prevent 
donating it?
I have been requested to donate a case to a local nonprofit (school, 
actually) for their annual auction.
I am currently  hemming and hawing because of the potential tax 
implications.   I am working on the assumption that if any money ever 
changes hands for a brew, that the gov't sees that as commercial activity, 
and I'd be facing a David Koresh type of action.
Does anyone know if there is an exemption for charitable orgs?
Thanks in advance,
Mike McCaw - mccaw at wdni.com

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 11 Mar 1994 15:08:55 -0500 (EST)
From: Doug Lukasik <LUKASIK_D at sunybroome.edu>
Subject: Sterile Wort/cap boils

I just made my first batch of sterile starter wort last night by following 
Miller's recipe (cut in half) and canned up 6 pints which I will begin using
tonight.  I have received 2 different answers on how to store the wort - in 
the fridge; in the basement along with all of the canned veges/fruits.  
Seems to me that canned is canned and that refridgeration should not be 
neccessary to maintain stability, but then again I have never canned wort 
before (I have canned meat based soups and these do not need refridgeration).
As my wife really does not want this added to the space I am already taking
up with my yeast cultures in the fridge I would just as soon store it with the
other canned goods.  Anyone with experiences good or bad that you would care
to share?

I wasn't going to respond to the boiling/soaking/microwaving of bottle caps 
but just can't resist at this point so here is my $.02.  I boil all of my caps
for 2 to 5 minutes and then let them sit in the hot water until I am ready to 
use them.  To date I have not had any bottle infections, problems with the 
cap liner or problems with sealing.  I use overrun caps and/or the cheapest 
ones I can find (never tried the "real beer" or the O2 barrier caps).  When
canning all good recipes/books/guides call for boiling bottles and caps for 
a minimum of 5 minutes.  After years of canning in hot water baths and 
pressure cookers I have never had a problem.  To each their own but for my 
piece of mind I will keep on boiling until I switch to kegs.

I am not sure who suggested using 2 liter soda bottles with frozen water as a 
method of cooling wort but I for one would like to say THANKS!!!  I now place
4 one liter bottles into my boiling wort for 15 to 20 minutes, mix the 3 gal
of wort with 2 gal of cold tap water and shake up the carboy immediately.  I 
have consistently reached Ale pitching temps between 70F and 75F with no 
additional cooling time required.  This works great :^) IMHO and is a good 
way for new brewers to play around with wort cooling until they have the 
time/cash to decide which type of chiller to use.  It is also a great way to 
cut down on water usage as the water is recycled batch to batch.

have a great weekend!!!

Doug.  <lukasik_d at sunybroome.edu>

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 11 Mar 1994 15:14:09 -0500
From: Art Steinmetz <asteinm at pipeline.com>
Subject: Boiling Caps 


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 11 Mar 1994 15:14:09 -0500
From: Art Steinmetz <asteinm at pipeline.com>
Subject: Opening a Brewpub 

The scale that everyone seems to think constiutes a brewpub 
requires a $500K to $1mm investment.  The many wonderful ones 
I've seen all fit that criteria.  Fine.

I want to open a brewpub, too.  I envision a corner bar in some 
working class neighborhood.  You know, where guys with Polish 
surnames (or African, for that matter.  I'm easy) eat pickled 
eggs and drink Pabst.  I'll stick my half-barrel home rig in 
the back.  If folks like it, fine.  If not I'll still have 
Pabst.  If I'm wildly successful, well, I can scale up from 
there.

The big flaw in this dream, as I see it, is regulation.  The 
regulatory cost is the same whether you're big or small so 
there are economies of scale involved.


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 11 Mar 1994 16:22:21 -0500
From: lovelace at pop.nih.gov (Chris Lovelace)
Subject: Chico yeast

In HBD 1370, Jack Skeels writes:

>I'v had a fermentation going in a batch of extract-based SNPA clone.  I used
>the SNPA yeast, and have had a good fermentation for over 10 days!  But the
>head (krauesen) still hasn't gone away.  My questions:

(stuff deleted)


I recently made a 3-gal batch of a Sierra Nevada Pale Ale clone (my first
all-grain :-) using yeast I propagated from a couple of bottles of SNPA
(using a method Papazian outlines in TNCJOHB).  After about a week in the
primary, I was ready to rack to the secondary and the krausen hadn't gone
down (too little volume for any blowoff).  If I hadn't been using a glass
carboy, I would've skimmed the krausen off, but as it is I just racked the
beer out from under it and went on my merry way.

I, like Jack, am curious about this.  Is this just an odd characteristic of
this yeast?


BTW, I'd like to thank all those who responded to my hop growing question. 
I ordered 3 Cascades rhizomes and 2 Kent Goldings rhizomes.  My dad is
growing them for me in his garden--I told him to save the shoots when he
thins them out; they should be tasty cooked in a little Goudenband :-)  I
can hardly wait 'till harvest time!

Chris    LOVELACE at POP.NIH.GOV



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 11 Mar 1994 16:43:49 -0800 (PST)
From: Eric Wade <ericwade at CLASS.ORG>
Subject: Canning wort, Kegging pressures

I am interested in canning some of the wort from my next batch to keep as
yeast starters.  In the canning section of my good ol' _Joy of Cooking_
pressure canning is recommended for low acid foods, whereas high acid
foods such as fruit, tomatoes, pickles can be canned with just a hot water
bath.  What about the acidity of wort in its unfermented state?  Knowing
that wort is a great medium for yeast and bacteria to grow in, and that as
the yeast ferments the wort becomes more acidic, thus inhibiting
bacteria and wild yeasts.  What is the collective wisdom of the HBD on
this one.  Is is necessary to pressure can or is unfermented wort acidic 
enough to can with just hot water canning? 

To all of you who responded to my query about initial pressurization of
corny kegs when not force carbonating:  if I didn't thank you personally,
thank you.  To others wanting the info, initial pressurizing of the keg
with 8-15 lbs CO2 is recommended to "seat" the O-rings if you don't force
carbonate, just prime.  This amount of extra CO2 when priming is
insignificant in terms of the overall CO2 that would dissolve into
solution and therfore not a threat for overcarbonation.  However, the
overwhelming response was why bother to prime anyway, just force
carbonate.  That will have to wait until next time I guess. 

=Eric

Return to table of contents


Date: 23 Feb 94 13:07:16 -0500
From: Joe.Johnson at f131.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Joe Johnson)
Subject: Intro and Wort Chilling

I am writing to you through the No Tarmac brewboard of whom John DeCarlo is
the sysop.  He is based in Arlington, VA.  John is kind enough to provide
copies of the HBD for d/l to one and all at no cost.  Thanks, John. 
I'm going to take a moment for self introduction.  My brewing experience is
of 2 years duration with extract and partial mash extracts.  My main goal in
brewing is to maximize the time I spend enjoying my homebrew.  I enjoy the
brewing process and learning about it and its associated activities through
HBD, Brewing Techniques and other sources.  Simplicity and flexibility are
key in brewing.  Also, reducing costs.  The less the ingredients cost, the
more I can brew.  I enjoy reading the digest.  However, I don't spend much
time with the debates on the very fine points of brewing.  I think, that I
should contribute something here.  For those of you who find my posts of
value, great.  For those of you who don't, just scroll on by. 
Wort Chilling-------------------
   I use a 16 qt. SS brewpot.  I put in 2 gallons of water and add my malts
and boil with hops according to schedule for 60 minutes.  At the end of 60
minutes I carefully remove my hop bags and replace the lid.  I place my
brewpot in my sink along with 4 1 qt ziplock bags.  The bags are prepared in
advance of brewing by filling them with 1qt of water and freezing them.  I
fill the sink with water until the brewpot just begins to float. 
Periodically, I spin the brewpot and change the water in the sink.  It takes
me about 15 minutes to chill the wort from just below boiling temperature to
about 100F even in the Summer.  The volume of wort in the brewpot is about
1.8 gallons.  I pour three gallons of refrigerated water in my carboy and
then add the wort.  The temperature of this mixture is about 70F.  So in a
very clean and rapid fashion I achieve proper wort temperature.  This has
worked very well for me.  I plan to post something on my brewing water next
time.

Return to table of contents

End of HOMEBREW Digest #1371, 03/12/94