FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Setting up Brew Club?! (pittock)
  Friges (BrianE)
  Re:  kegging carbonation ("Glen A. Wagnecz, X6616")
  spruce beers ("Dana S. Cummings")
  The continuing saga of my first All-Grain Brewskie (GONTAREK)
  Beer tasting ("pratte")
  Oats in Beer (Lee=A.=Menegoni)
  flaked maize (Jeff Frane)
  RE> Sucking siphons (Rick Hammerstone)
  Burton/London ales; Party Pig (MELOTH MICHAEL S)
  Re: Brewing with wormwood (Jay Lonner)
  Detroit Brewpubs? (Kirk L. Oseid)
  Re: Homebrewing Smells; Strange White Stuff ("Roger Deschner  ")
  Commercialism - or is it ? (brewing chemist Mitch)
  Re:The uses of "Malta Goya" (Tony Willoughby)
  Glatt mills (Allen Ford)
  Re: Low-T_ferments/FlakedMaize/VirtualPub/CrystalBalls? (Stephen Hansen)
  Oats (Jeff Benjamin)
  More help/Thanks (Ken Jackson)
  Re: BEER DINNER IN CHICAGO (Joel Birkeland)
  Collecting Beer in Europe (Jim Liddil)
  Re:  Wyeast 1338 for wheat beers ("Glen A. Wagnecz, X6616")
  Grain milling question (BAIER_T)
  GLATT MILL INFO ("DEV::FVH")
  Advice needed on Stout stout (Bryan L. Gros)
  Bye all - out'a here Friday (Chris Pencis)
  yeastbags (RONALD DWELLE)
  Charlie bashing (Jim Doyle)
  Re: Wormwood (Jim Brewster)
  jack.kingsley at infores.com (Jack_Kingsley_at_po.iri.la)
  Advice on pubs to visit in England/Scotland (fleck)
  staples in beer (Alan P Van Dyke)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Mon, 16 May 1994 17:31:34 +1000
From: pittock at rsbs0.anu.edu.au
Subject: Setting up Brew Club?!

Hello All,
          I'm contemplating setting up a Brew Club here in Canberra
(Australia), and would like to hear from those of you involved with a club
and/or setting one up.  Anything from a good story to getting discounts out
of suppliers for club members.  Good and bad alike is what I want to see.
Useful hints from those who've been there would be ideal!  If I get a good
response I'll do a summary - a sort of "How to" guide for setting up a Brew
Club.  Personal e-mail is best 'till I get it all summarised.  [PS profuse
apologies for my first posting (re: aniseed stout) with a HUGE tagline - my
mistake, am going tagless to correct my error]  TIA!                 Chris
Pittock  <pittock at rsbs0.anu.edu.au>


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Date: 16 May 94 06:31 CST
From: BrianE at anesthesia-po.anesth.uiowa.edu
Subject: Friges

I'd appreciate comments on defrost vs non-defrost friges for brewing.
Private replies to eddie-brian at uiowa.edu

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Date:     Mon, 16 May 94 7:35:39 EDT
From: "Glen A. Wagnecz, X6616" <wagnecz at PICA.ARMY.MIL>
Subject:  Re:  kegging carbonation

Bruce-

	I use the "high/low" method.  By this I mean that I attempt to 
saturate at a high temperature and then come down to pouring  temperature.
I start by transfering out of the carboys into the 5-gallon keg (at 68 F).
I apply between 20-25 psi (depending on style) CO2, and shake until I
can't hear anymore gas going through the regulator (make sure that its very
quite where you're doing this because the hiss is not very perceptible
when you get towards the end).  I sit in a chair, lay the keg across my
knees, and alternately raise and lower each leg.  It takes about 8-10
minutes to get to saturation with this agitation.  The agitiation is
critical, without it, you can add _days_ to the cycle.

	A sign that I'm getting near complete is when I start to see
a little beer getting into the air line.  This si an indication that gas 
flow is becoming very intermittant.  Turn the gas off and while still
hooked up to the keg, slowly bleed down your pressure to between 7-10
psi.  Put the keg in the fridge (or other cold place) and let sit for 
a good 24 hours.  I like to check once or twice to make sure I've
still got pressure (7-10 psi) during the cooling cycle.

	I shoot for about 34-35 degrees for a bottling temperature.
I find that at this temperature, foaming is very minimal.  I see 
even a big difference between this temperature and say 40F as far
as foam.  Another big help besides a cold temperature is the use of
a "dip tube" (~8 inch piece of vinyl tubing inserted into the tap)
that allows you to start the flow at the bottom of the bottle 
rather than have it cascade (no pun intended :)  ) down the inside 
wall.  Pour four and cap fast.


			Hope this helps-

			Glen

P.S. I just this method yesterday and it worked fine (again).

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Date: Mon, 16 May 1994 08:21:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Dana S. Cummings" <dcumming at moose.uvm.edu>
Subject: spruce beers

The poor old spruce beers have been taking an awful beating lately.  In 
their defense:  I have tasted a super maple-spruce beer that was made 
with one tablespoon of spruce gum for a five gallon batch.  Nice spruce 
flavor with no pinesol character.  
Disclaimer--This was NOT something I made, just quizzed the fellow brewer 
about his fine beer.  

Dana Cummings
dcumming at moose.uvm.edu
dscummin at emba.uvm.edu
Burlington, VT



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Date: Mon, 16 May 1994 9:30:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: GONTAREK at FCRFV1.NCIFCRF.GOV
Subject: The continuing saga of my first All-Grain Brewskie

Hello all!  For those paying attention, last week I brewed my first
all-grain beer.  On Thursday I transferred the nectar into a secondary
and added 1 ounce of Cascade hops in a cheesecloth bag to dry-hop.
Last night when I took an s.g. reading, I noticed that there were
billions of tiny particles (hop shrapnel) that had managed to
weep through the bag and into my brew! I thought I was dry-hopping
correctly, but my experience tells me otherwise.  Has this happened
to anyone before?  Should I strain my beer through a fine sieve when
I transfer to my bottling bucket?  It seems like these particles
like to float (ie, they don't appear to be settling-out).  Is it
better to dry-hop with whole-leaf hops? And if so, how much whole
leaf hops do I use?  
	I would appreciate any replies to my questions.  Thabnks in 
advance, and I'll let you know how it goes.
	
	Rick Gontarek
	gontarek at ncifcrf.gov

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Date:          Mon, 16 May 1994 08:52:12 EST
From: "pratte" <PRATTE at GG.csc.peachnet.edu>
Subject:       Beer tasting

I attended a microbrewery beer tasting festival this weekend (RJ's 
Kitchen in Atlanta), and I came away with a question that I felt the 
acquired knowledge of the HBD could answer.  While they had assembled 
some of the best microbrewery beers from around the country (Celis, 
Pete's, Market Street, etc.), they had also seemed to have assembled 
some of the most unknowledgable beer servers as well.  Aside from 
many of them not knowing what it was that they were serving (the New 
Amsterdam rep said,"This one's an ale, but these other two are 
beers"), most did not know how to serve the beer.  This is usually 
not a problem when serving a filtered beer, but it can present a big 
problem when serving an unfiltered one.  None of the servers decanted 
the beer into a pitcher for serving.  Therefore, if you were unlucky 
to get served anything other than the first few pours from the 
bottle, you ended up with a very pronounced yeast taste in the bottle 
(when confronted, one of the servers said "People prefer the 
yeast!").  Even worse, one of the servers was actually shaking the 
bottles before she opened to stir up the yeast.  Apparently, she was 
under the impression that the fruit and spices that had been added to 
the beer were sitting on the bottom.

My question to the HBD is: Where do these servers come from?  They 
seemed to be representing the microbrewery they were serving, but I 
can't believe that they would send people out who were so 
unknowledgable.  If they were, I would recommend to any microbrewers 
who are listening to check out your people more closely.

John

P.S.  For everyone in Georgia, Atlanta is about to get it's first 
true microbrewery.  Representatives from the Marthasville Brewery 
were at the tasting and said that they would be starting production 
in about a month.  Unfortunately, they didn't bring any beer to the 
tasting.

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Date: Mon, 16 May 94 09:52:01 EDT
From: Lee=A.=Menegoni at nectech.com
Subject: Oats in Beer 

A recent "Brewing to Style" article in Brewing Techniques discusses usage 
of Oats in Stout.  The author suggest no more than 10% of the grist as Oats,
 he also mentions that steel cut oats need to be boiled prior to mashing to 
gelatinize the starch while "instant" oats have had some processing that 
makes the boiling unnecessary.  He suggest use of instant oats as a means 
of simplifying and saving time in the brewing process.  		

    


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Date: Mon, 16 May 1994 07:20:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: gummitch at teleport.com (Jeff Frane)
Subject: flaked maize

Al Korzonas assures us we *must* mash flaked maize to avoid hazes. First
of all, I consider the recommended steeping of grains at 150F to be a
sort of mini-mash anyway.  But as to Al's point, I quote from George
Fix, in the special all-grain issue of Zymurgy, vol 8, no. 4, p. 23:

   "A different procedure is recommended for flakes.  Here protein
   breakdown is not an issue, and thus flakes can be left out of the
   mash until starch conversion.  In fact the flakes could be used as a
   brake in the transition from the protein rest."

I have been following George's recommendation with a number of different
styles of beer, adding the flakes to the mash only when I've reached
saccharification temperature.  I haven't had any problems with haze ...
but then, I've been using Irish Moss!!!!

- --Jeff


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Date: Mon, 16 May 94 10:44:26 EDT
From: rickh at gcctech.com (Rick Hammerstone)
Subject: RE> Sucking siphons

You know how it is when you feel compelled to write...


While I am not a biologist or biochemist, I don't think that I am
alone in believing that starting a siphon by using your mouth is bad
idea at any stage of the brewing process. The simple reason for this
is that prior to fermenting, you are trying to make a happy little
environment for your yeast -- giving them nutrients, oxygen, and
temperatures that will encourage them to flourish before they settle
down to the process of fermenting your wort.

Unfortunately, these same conditions provide a wonderful environment
for all sorts of other nasty creatures, including wild yeasts and
bacterium. I assume that lactobaccillus is only one of the most common
bacteria species found in human saliva, and I'll bet that wort makes a
fairly good culture medium. I mean, do you still mouth suction if you're
not feeling very well? Ugh, it's Streptococcus Stout. ;)


On a different note, I've noticed that the HBD is remarkably free of
the flamage that make reading other newsgroups require an asbestos
terminal. I *do* have one recommendation for those who feel the need
to flame an article: Please READ the article that you are flaming.
You'll sound a lot more coherent if you don't completely misquote a
posting. 


- --Rick

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rick Hammerstone                               "Opinions? What opinions?
GCC Technologies, Inc.                            Oh, THOSE opinions..."
rickh at gcctech.com
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Date: Mon, 16 May 1994 09:07:36 -0600 (MDT)
From: MELOTH MICHAEL S <meloth at spot.Colorado.EDU>
Subject: Burton/London ales; Party Pig

1.  What is the difference, if any, between the liquid yeasts used for 
    Burton and London ales?

2.  Are Party Pigs worth the price?  Do they force carbonate or only 
    dispense pre-carconated beer?

 *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *   *   *
 Michael S. Meloth           Phone:  303-492-5204
 University of Colorado      FAX:    303-492-7090
 Campus Box 249              Internet:  meloth at spot.colorado.edu
 Boulder, CO  80309
 *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *  *


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Date: Mon, 16 May 1994 08:35:28 -0800 (PST)
From: Jay Lonner <8635660 at NESSIE.CC.WWU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Brewing with wormwood

Chuck asks about using wormwood instead of hops as a bittering agent.  Don't do
it!  Wormwood contains a compound called thujone (a terpene) which causes
disorders of the central nervous system!  It's an addictive substance that was
the active ingredient in Absinthe, and as you probably know Absinthe is illegal
in most countries because of the deletorious effects of thujone (Pernod, a
substitute liqueor, contains no wormwood).

Please, if you don't believe me look it up somewhere and convince yourself of
wormwood's toxicity.  It's not worth risking your brain.

Jay.

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Date: Mon, 16 May 94 12:02:15 EDT
From: klo at fluent.com (Kirk L. Oseid)
Subject: Detroit Brewpubs?

Hello:

I will be in the Detroit area next week.  I would be willing to travel
between Ann Arbor and Detroit in search of fresh brew.

Any suggestions?

TIA, 
Kirk L. Oseid                              klo at fluent.com
Fluent, Inc.                               tel 603/643-2600
10 Cavendish Court, Lebanon, NH 03766      fax 603/643-3967

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From: ulick at ulix.cheg.nd.edu

	id m0q35Kl-0006PCC; Mon, 16 May 94 11:16 EST
Message-Id: <m0q35Kl-0006PCC at ulix>
Date: Mon, 16 May 94 11:16 EST
From: ulick at ulix.cheg.nd.edu (Ulick Stafford)
To: homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
Subject: Advertising


Richard Childers complained about advertising and insulted some regular
hbders, IMNSHO.  I mean Jack Schmidling and Mark Garetz contribute to
the digest (well Mark used to.  Is he still around?).  They partake in
discussions, provide information, and generally do not make bald advertisments,
but merely let it be known that they produce products - call for information.

Now Charlie Papazian did make a bald advertisment for an event that the
AHA must be having trouble selling in Chicago, and is not in the habit of
making any useful contributions to the digest.  But, I suppose we should
cut him some slack because the AHA has made some contributions to homebrewing
and his own book is considered a useful introductory book.  Perhaps, he
should offer some free space in Zymurgy for a hbdigest ad as penanace :-).

Require AHA bitch.  Talking about advertising in Zymurgy, a local retailer
who was considering getting into mailorder said that getting an ad in 
Zymurgy takes more than 6 months, and I have noticed that ads are not 
that up to date.  Is there a chance of improvement in the magazine now
that the editor has changed?  I am still shocked at how long after they took
my money it was that the first magazine arrived.
_____________________________________________________________________________
  'There was a  master come unto the earth, | Ulick Stafford,               
     born in the holy land of Indiana,      | Dept of Chemical Engineering, 
  in the mystical hills east of Fort Wayne'.| Notre Dame, IN 46556          
                                            |    ulick at ulix.cheg.nd.edu   


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Date: Mon, 16 May 1994 11:06:00 CDT
From: "Roger Deschner " <U52983 at UICVM.UIC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Homebrewing Smells; Strange White Stuff

I live in a condo also. I consider the response from my neighbors to be
jealousy. One of them considers the smell to be a signal that if he comes
down I will give him a homebrew to drink. A small price to pay for
domestic peace. Put towels under the door - didn't you ever have a nosy
resident advisor in your college dorm?


People seem to go overboard with Gypsum. As a beer judge, I periodically
get to ingest one of these, and I can only write down on the judging
sheet "Tastes like sheetrock; go easy on the gypsum." Your beer is
probably SAFE to drink, but I bet you won't like that unique plasterboard
character.

GO EASY ON WATER TREATMENTS, until you really know what you are doing.
Most U.S. tapwater needs stuff removed from it, not added to it, for most
styles of beer. If in doubt, do NOTHING, other than what you do for water
that you'd drink. Just boil it to remove the chlorine and leave "water
treatment" at that.

=============== "Civilization was CAUSED by beer." =====================
Roger Deschner    University of Illinois at Chicago   R.Deschner at uic.edu

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Date: Mon, 16 May 94 11:30:03 CDT
From: gelly at persoft.persoft.com (brewing chemist Mitch)
Subject: Commercialism - or is it ?

In digest 1424, Richard Childers <pascal at netcom.com> mildly toasts Charlie P:

>> IF YOU ARE INTERESTED IN JOINING US Tickets are $35 per person.  Call 312
>> 427-7800 and ask about the beer dinner. I'm looking forward to it. Hope
>> to see some of you beer folks out there
>>
>> Charlie Papazian
>> CIS 72210,2754
>>
 
> Hey, Charlie.
>
> No advertising on the Home Brew Digest.
>
> This applies to Mark Garetz ... Jack Schmidling ... and Charlie Papazian.
>
> If you're having trouble selling your tickets and you get a piece of the
> action ... well, then, shell out some money and _buy_ your advertising.
>
> I mean, think about it. How many of us are going to fly to ! at #$ing Chicago
> to spend $35 to eat dinner with Charlie Papazian ? I'm 2000 miles away.

Richard,

I'm sure Charlie is not doing this because ticket sales are low. I am only
a few hours from Chicago, but probably would not have heard about this
event otherwise. I might not go for just for Charlie (sorry, Charlie), but 
instead for the excellent menu that was outlined.
 
There was also a post in HBD 1423 for an upcoming California microbrew event.
I see that post as exactly the same thing as Charlie's. It is an announcement 
of a beer-related event, not commercialism. I would not flame the poster for 
announcing an event in California even though there was no possible way I could 
make it. Posts for micro festivals, beer dinners, tastings, etc., are not
commercialism as far as I am concerned. If your only criteria for a post being 
commercial is the appearance of a price involved in attending, then so be it.

I consider posts, references, or mere mention of articles that the poster
produces for _their_own_ personal profit to be blatant commercialism that 
offends me. So your reference to certain other individuals here *is* 
justified.
 
The HBD spans the continent and abroad. There will be many events announced
that are way out of your personal range. However, there is always the chance 
you will see an announcement for an event in a city that you will happen to 
be visiting at that time, and you will be happy that you heard about it.
(For example: Great Taste of the Midwest, August 20th - Madison WI)

Okay, obBrewing: 

A friend passed along to me a pint of slurry, which he said was yeast from
Christian Schmitt (sp?). I pitched it into a Munich Helles I brewed yesterday,
and it was definitely viable since I was getting blow-off after about three 
hours.  I only used about 2/3 of the pint, also. My question (which hopefully 
has an obvious answer, but not painfully so) is: what kind of strain (other 
than just lager, thank you :-P ) is the C.Schmitt ?

Mitch

- -- 
|                       - Mitch Gelly -                        | Zack Norman |
|   software QA specialist, zymurgist, AHA/HWBTA beer judge,   |     is      |
| president of the Madison Homebrewers and Tasters Guild, Ltd. |  Sammy in   |
|      - gellym at aviion.persoft.com - gelly at persoft.com -       | Chief Zabu  |

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Date: Mon, 16 May 1994 12:29:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: Tony Willoughby <tonyw at sw.stratus.com>
Subject: Re:The uses of "Malta Goya"


Acording to Rafael (SUPERVISOR at bnk1.bnkst.edu)

 - Two days ago I bought from my local grocery store a bottle of
 - "Malta Goya" (33 cents) and when I tasted it at home I thought
 - "Gosh, this stuff actually tastes and smells like real wort!".
 - The label said that is made from "Barley Malt, corn sugar, and
 - choicest hops" sounds familiar?
 - Anyway, this beverage is very sweet and I was thinking if
 - somebody has any experience in using it as either part of your
 - wort or as a priming agent.  Another use would be as a yeast
 - culture solution.
 - Anyway, if you want to explain somebody what  "wort" is and how 
 - smells, save yorself some time and money and buy malta Goya.


I thought I was the only person on the planet to have heard of this stuff!
I've mentioned it to some brew-friends and they look at me as if I were
out of my mind (you would have to be out of your mind to actually *drink*
Malta Goya).

The one time I tried it, I thought the same thing: wort.  So I threw in 
an old packet of dry ale yeast just to see what would happen.  Within 5
hours it was bubbling up a storm!  I'm not sure you would want to use it
for anything, but it is quite a conversation piece.

- -- 
                              | 
Tony Willoughby               | "...and there's some homebrewed stuff
tonyw at sw.stratus.com          |                      in the promoter's car"
                              |                      
                              |                                   -Spinal Tap

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Date: Mon, 16 May 1994 11:41:59 -0500 (CDT)
From: Allen Ford <allen at darwin.sfbr.org>
Subject: Glatt mills


Jack S. asked/commented about Glatt grain mills.

I recently purchased one through a homebrew supply shop here in San 
Antonio.  The shop owner encountered the same problems you describe 
concerning receiving shipment.  The manufacturer definitely has problems 
somewhere, whether it's in production, record keeping, or whatever.

That said, I can state that I am extremely pleased with the functioning 
of the mill and the quality of the resulting crush.  The mill I 
received has relatively wide (~1/8") and deep longitudinal grooves on 
the rollers.   Compared to the earlier version of the Maltmill with 
longitudinally-grooved rollers, the Glatt mill thruput and crush is 
superior.  According to competent sources, compared with the newer 
knurled-roller Maltmill, there is no noticeable difference.  I 
understand that Glatt will be using knurled rollers in the future.

For me the major selling points of the Glatt mill were: 1)both rollers 
are gear driven so no slippage of a passive roller can occur, 2)the gap 
between the rollers is adjustable on both ends, allowing the rollers to 
remain parallel at all settings, and 3)the price was ~$40 cheaper than 
it nearest competitor, the Maltmill.

I am currently setting up to motorize the Glatt.  Although the 
manufacturer states that motorizing the mill will void the warranty, 
he claims that I should be able to run it at or below 300 rpm.  How does 
this compare to the warranty and recommended speeds for the Maltmill? 

I have no connection with the manufacturers or sellers of either of the 
above-mentioned products.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=  Allen L. Ford  <allen at darwin.sfbr.org>  =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
=-=-= Southwest Foundation for Biomedical Research  San Antonio, Texas =-=-=


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Date: Mon, 16 May 94 09:42:40 -0700
From: Stephen Hansen <hansen at gloworm.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: Low-T_ferments/FlakedMaize/VirtualPub/CrystalBalls? 

In HBD 1424 David Draper <ddraper at laurel.ocs.mq.edu.au> writes:
> Whud id iz: In the yeast.faq, there is included for most yeasts an optimum
> fermentation temperature.  There have been lots of posts in the digest
> about what happens when certain yeasts are fermented above their optimum
> range.  My question is, what can I expect in my ales that are brewing
> *below* the optimum temp?  You all are entering spring/summer, down here
> it's cooling off--my brewroom is 58-60F and my place is unheated (like
> lots of apartments here--yup it's a warm climate all right!). 
> Specifically, at the moment I've got an IPA (the one with staples from my
> last post) fermenting with Wyeast 1056 at the above temp.  It's just
> blurping away merrily--a very fast start too, I had a P-gradient in my
> airlock within 2 hours of pitching.

I think someone asked a similar question a couple of weeks ago.  I use
SNPA yeast (aka 1056) for the majority of my brews and have, in general,
had excellent results.  However, this winter I had three batches that
started out fine but quit early (FG 1025).  My best guess as to the
cause was that cool temps ( < 60F ) put the little darlings to sleep.
Since each batch had clearly stopped fermenting and had been in for
sufficient time I didn't find out about the high FG until it was
already in the keg.  I put a little pressure on, gave it a good shake,
and moved it into the house for a couple of days.  In all three cases
the beer finished off in the keg and turned out just fine except for a
bit of overcarbination which took a few days to bleed off.

Stephen Hansen

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
 Stephen E. Hansen - hansen at sierra.Stanford.EDU  | "The church is near,
 Electrical Engineering Computer Facility        |  but the road is icy.
 Applied Electronics Laboratory, Room 218        |  The bar is far away,
 Stanford University, Stanford, CA 94305-4055    |  but I will walk carefully."
 Phone: +1-415-723-1058   Fax: +1-415-723-1294   |      -- Russian Proverb
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

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Date: Mon, 16 May 94 10:55:50 MDT
From: Jeff Benjamin <benji at hpfcbug.fc.hp.com>
Subject: Oats

> OATS! I want to use oats, but where do you people who use them, get them?
> Nobody has owned up to using Quaker, somebody used Irish Steel Cut (probably
> obtained from a small Turkish deli), but my brew shop does not carry any. What
> should I use if I am going to add them to the mash?

Probably any brand of quick-cooking oats will do.  That's what I've used
in the past, and I'll own up to using Quaker, although usually I go to my
favorite store that sells bulk grains and buy them there.

You want quick-cooking oats because they have already been partially
processed, or gelatinized, to make them quick-cooking.  This allows you
to add them directly to the mash without first having to gelatinize
(boil) them yourself.

- --
Jeff Benjamin                               benji at fc.hp.com
Hewlett Packard Co.                         Fort Collins, Colorado	
"Midnight shakes the memory as a madman shakes a dead geranium."
					    - T.S. Eliot

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Date: Mon, 16 May 94 12:52:03 EDT
From: ken at memtec.com (Ken Jackson)
Subject: More help/Thanks

Hello out there in HBD land,
Hello out there in HBD land,
 
     Before I try my hand at home brewing I'm
 trying to do as much research and studying as
 possible. What scares me the most are "bottle
 bombs". Can anyone give me some tips on avoiding
 this disaster? Any other advice for the beginner
 (do's, don'ts, etc.) would be greatly appreciated.
 
         e-mail: ken at memtec.com
 
  P.S. Thanks to all who replied to my request for
 brewpubs in Maine/Mass. Gritty McDuff's in Portland
 is definitely the scene to make, great Black Fly Stout.
 Federal Jack's in Kenebunkport was fun too, tried the
 Brown Moose Ale and Blue Fin Stout. Both gooooood!
 
                         Thanks again,
                              KJ

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Date: Mon, 16 May 94 10:21:29 MST
From: birkelan at adtaz.sps.mot.com (Joel Birkeland)
Subject: Re: BEER DINNER IN CHICAGO


Charlie writes:

>The planned menu includes 

>...
>Lobster and Brie Soup prepped with Celis White accompanied with Legacy Lager
>and Baderbrau Pils....

What?! They put the Celis in the soup and then drink Baderbrau Pils?

>Stuffed Leg of Lamb prepped with Chimay Red Ale, w/ beer glazed (prepped with
>Sprecher Mai Bock) carrots, and boiled potatoes (prepped with Berghoff Beer)
>accompanied with Petes Wicked Ale....

What What?!  Cooking with the Chimay and then drinking Pete's Wicked Ale?

Blasphemy!

>Creme Brulee prepped malt extract accompanied with Lakefront's East Side Dark
>and Goos Island Porter

Oh that's the last straw.  At least it should be all-grain Creme Brulee.

Who is this guy, and why would we want to eat dinner with him?


Joel

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Date: Mon, 16 May 1994 10:37:02 -0700 (MST)
From: Jim Liddil <JLIDDIL at AZCC.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Collecting Beer in Europe

I have a friend who is going to Bonn, Cologne, Dusseldorf, Paris and possibly,
Brussels.  He will be traveling around by train and oes not wnat ot lug beer
around as he travels and buys it.  Does any one have an idea if it is
reasonable to ship beer from Europe?  Or does anyone hae a better idea.  Please
e-mail me ASAP.  TIA

Jim Liddil

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Date:     Mon, 16 May 94 13:32:31 EDT
From: "Glen A. Wagnecz, X6616" <wagnecz at PICA.ARMY.MIL>
Subject:  Re:  Wyeast 1338 for wheat beers

I saw Allison Shorten's article on the Wheinstephan 338 yeast for wheat
beers and I wanted to say that I just tried the wheinstephan 3068 on a
batch of 50/50 2-row/wheat base that I made two weeks ago.  I've
used the 3056 up until now, but was getting more of a wheat ale
result rather than a true weizzen.  This 3068 is something else.  The
first indication I had that soemthing was up was when I discovered I
had a major blowout downstairs.  I was taking a couple friends down
for a view ofthe latest batch when we were able to smell the batch
before we even went down the stairs.  We found the three fermenters in
full swing, with about two inches of foam on each of the tops and table.
(A quick emergency blowout tube hookup session followed).  I have not 
had a blow out like that with even my stouts!  The krausen was one of
the foamiest I've ever seen!

	Well two weeks later I bottled the stuff.  Two hours in the
bottle and a knock on the door (beer juding committee is back).  I
figured, what the hell, and cracked a couple bottles, with the
disclaimer that "its real green, only in the bottle a few hours, 
bla, bla, bla...).  We were happily surprised.  The nearest 
comparison I can make is that it tasted like Paulaners Weizzen.
I can't wait to see how this stuff tastes in a month!

	Bottom line is, try this yeast if you are a wheat head
like me!  You'll love it!

			Glen

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Date: Mon, 16 May 1994 11:01:33 -0700 (PDT)
From: BAIER_T at SALT.PLU.EDU
Subject: Grain milling question


I will go absolutely freaking insane if I have to make another
batch of beer using my Corona mill.

I am looking for collective wisdom on commercially available
grain mills, including speed, reliability, cost, satisfaction,
motorizing (including necessary HP), etc.

Many thanks in advance for any comments in this regard.

Tom Baier - Tacoma, WA
BAIER_T at SALT.PLU.EDU


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Date: 16 May 94 12:43:00 CST
From: "DEV::FVH" <FVH%DEV.decnet at mdcgwy.mdc.com>
Subject: GLATT MILL INFO

FYI,
  I STARTED TRACKING DOWN MILLS ABOUT 3 WEEKS AGO.  I WAS ABLE TO PURCHASE
A 50 LB SACK OF 2-ROW FOR A VERY GOOD PRICE AND WAS NEEDING A WAY TO MILL
IT.  I READ THE MILL-OFF FAQ GIVEN TO ME BY A FRIEND AND I MADE SEVERAL
PHONE CALLS FOR CATALOGS TO COMPARE PRICES AND AVAILABILITY.  I HAD DECIDED
ON EITHER THE GLATT MILL OR THE MALT(SCHMIDLING)MILL.

  A TRIP TO A STORE IN DEL MAR GAVE ME THE PRIVILEDGE OF LOOKING AT BOTH OF
THE ABOVE MILLS.  I GOT THE FEELING, IN RETROSPECT, THAT BOTH MILLS WERE
OLDER VERSIONS.  THE GLATT WAS YELLOW WHILE THE MALTMILL HAD THE O-RING
ON THE CRANK DRIVEN ROLLER TO DRIVE THE OTHER ROLLER.  I HAVE SINCE FOUND
OUT THAT GREG GLATT AND JACK SCHMIDLING HAVE MADE IMPROVEMENTS ON THEIR DESIGN.
THE MALTMILL HAS NO NEED FOR THE O-RING AND THE GLATT MILL NOW HAS A 
STAINLESS STEEL BODY AND A SCREW-ON HANDLE.  

  I WROTE A MESSAGE TO JACK FOR SOME MORE INFO ON HIS MILL IN WHICH HE WAS
VERY TIMELY IN HIS REPLY.  HIS RESPONSE SEEMED LIKE A FILE RESPONSE BUT WAS
VERY INFORMATIVE.  THE FIXED MILL WITHOUT ANY OPTIONS IS $99.  OPTIONS ARE 
AVAILABLE AT ADDITIONAL COSTS.

  I HAD CHECKED SEVERAL CATALOGS AND HAD FOUND THE GLATT MILL AT ABOUT $77
AT THE VERY BEST.  TOUGH CHOICE.  I OPTED FOR THE GLATT MILL FOR MY NEEDS.
I HAVE NO DESIRE TO MOTORIZE OR DO GREAT QUANITIES OF GRAIN.  THE MALTMILL
LOOKED BEST FOR MOTORIZING OR TAKING OFF THE HOPPER AND UTILIZING ALL OF THE 
10 INCH ROLLERS.  SIZE, WEIGHT AND APPEARANCE WERE HIGHER ON MY PRIORITY 
LIST SINCE MY UNDERSTANDING WAS THAT THEY BOTH PRODUCED HIGH QUALITY MILLED
GRAIN.

   I CALLED EVERY CATALOG NUMBER I COULD FIND TO TRY AND ORDER THE GLATT 
MILL AND WAS FINDING A TREND.  BACKORDERS.  THE $77 PLACE WAS BACKORDERED
THE MOST.  THEY PUT ME ON THE LIST WHERE I AM NUMBER 43.  I KEPT CALLING. I
FINALLY DECIDED TO CALL GREG HIMSELF.  TO MY SURPRISE, I WAS ABLE TO TALK
TO HIM.  HE ACKNOWLEDGED THE BACKORDER PROBLEM AND SAID THAT THE WHOLE 
BUSINESS MUSHROOMED ON HIM BEFORE HE WAS PROPERLY PREPARED.  HE WAS IN THE 
PROCESS OF GETTING A COMPANY UP TO SPEED ON SOME OUT-OF-HOUSE MILLING WORK
AND EXPECTED TO HAVE HIS BACK ORDERS UP TO DATE BY THE END OF THE MONTH.
HE WASN'T AWARE OF THE WAITING LISTS THAT I WAS ENCOUNTERING.  HE EXPECTED
TO TAKE ANOTHER MONTH TO GET THIS TAKEN CARE OF.  

   SOME PLACES HAVE BEEN WAITING SINCE OCTOBER TO GET THEIR SHIPMENTS.  
GREG HAS BEEN SHIPPING OUT 5 HERE, 10 THERE JUST TO KEEP PEOPLE GOING.  
THESE, OF COURSE, ARE ALREADY SOLD.  IF YOU ARE ON THE LIST AT A STORE
THAT PLACED AN ORDER SOME TIME AGO, THEN BE PATIENT.  YOU MAY END UP WITH
A GOOD DEAL.  THE IMPROVED DESIGNS HAVE RAISED THE PRICE.  GREG IS STILL
HONORING THE OLD PRICE FOR BACKORDERS BUT WILL RAISE THE NEW ORDER PRICES.
I WAS FINALLY ABLE TO BUY ONE FOR $109.  THEIR OLD PRICE WAS $89.  I WAS TO
FAR DOWN ON THE LIST TO GET THE OLD PRICE.  I HAVEN'T RECEIVED IT YET BUT
EXPECT IT BY THE END OF THE WEEK.  PERHAPS, I'M OPTIMISTIC. 

THE OPINIONS EXPRESSED ARE MY OWN AND ARE NOT INTENDED TO SWAY ANYONE
TOWARDS ONE TYPE OF MILL OR THE OTHER.  

DIRK HOUSER


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Date: Mon, 16 May 94 11:28:19 PDT
From: bgros at sensitivity.berkeley.edu (Bryan L. Gros)
Subject: Advice needed on Stout stout

I've been thinking about what to do for a christmas beer this year
and I think I'll go all out and make a Russian Imperial Oatmeal Stout.

Now I've never done anything this strong (hopefully OG=1.100) and
I've never used oatmeal before.  I figure to brew it in June or
July and bottle it.

Any experience or advice from you experts would be appreciated or if
there's a particular recipe you want to point out, that would be great.
Thanks.
                                  - Bryan

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Date: Mon, 16 May 1994 14:08:58 -0500
From: chp at mail.utexas.edu (Chris Pencis)
Subject: Bye all - out'a here Friday

Well folks, hell has frozen over - my thesis got signed and I'm moving on to 
different pastures (hopefully eventually ones with internet connectivity) - 
I'm off Friday - I post this publicly because I am still getting requests 
for Porter summaries and such so....get it while its hot.  
Thanks to all with the great answers over this past year or so - T.T.F.N (ta 
ta for now)        Chris


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Date: Mon, 16 May 94 15:13:20 EST
From: dweller at GVSU.EDU (RONALD DWELLE)
Subject: yeastbags

     Instead of cheesecloth, I've started using discarded pantyhose 
     from my SO, for dryhopping. Works great. (I wash them first.)
     Ron Dwelle (dweller at gvsu.edu)
        "I wish to see beer become common, instead of the whisky which 
     kills one-third of our citizens, and ruins their families."
        -Thomas Jefferson, 1815

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Date: Sun, 15 May 1994 13:56:57 -0700
From: Jim Doyle <jgdoyle at uci.edu>
Subject: Charlie bashing

Am I the only one who was surprised at the negative tone which richard
childers' response to Papazian's announcement carried?

I, too, am in California...and I welcome invitations to attend brew-related
events-even if they are out of state.  Without these invitations and/or
notices, I surely would not have known about the Karnival of beers in
Fullerton (which IS very close) or in Scottsdale...also the upcoming SLO,
CA event (which I plan to attend).  If I was going to be in Chicago I would
 attend for certain (sounds delicious...and a taste of the famed
"triplebock(tm)(r)(patent pending)(etc.)"!!).

I didn't notice negative comments on these events...hmmmm...maybe it
depends on who posts the notice...

I also am glad to see folks telling us about new and better equipment they
have "invented", or new sources for supplies.  Without these posts, I would
no doubt be much less aware of my options (local brew-supply stores are
lacking in this category).

On a related note, O'Shea Brewing Co. in Laguna Niguel, CA (714)582-2739 is
a new shop which is interested in carrying innovative products...total
disclaimer...no personal interest...oh, they have a neat beer flag for sale
which looks good flying over those homebrew occasions (haven't seen any in
the catalogs).

just had to get that off my chest...ahhhh...that feels better...now if only
I could drink a homebrew and work at the same time...


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Date: Mon, 16 May 1994 17:21:04 -0400
From: jmb31 at cornell.edu (Jim Brewster)
Subject: Re: Wormwood

In HBD # 1424, Chuck asked:

>Has anyone ever heard of brewing with wormwood (instead of hops).  
      A friend has a few bushes and was interested.

I wouldn't advise it. I'm not an expert, but I believe that absinthe
(wormwood liqueur) was illegalized because the interaction of alcohol and
the herb led to insanity and major health problems! I don't know if a
beer-strength version would have the same effect, but I'm not about to
experiment!

Try sage or coriander instead!

Jim


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Date: Mon, 16 May 94 17:37:55 EST
From: Jack_Kingsley_at_po.iri.la at smtplink.infores.com
Subject: jack.kingsley at infores.com


jack.kingsley at infores.com

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Date: Mon, 16 May 1994 16:38:59 -0400
From: fleck at newton.franklincoll.edu
Subject: Advice on pubs to visit in England/Scotland

I will be visiting England and Scotland in mid June and am wondering if
anyone knows of any good pubs I should visit in the following cities: London,
Canterbury, York, Edinburgh, Fife, St. Andrews and Glasgow.

So as not to tie up the valuable HBD space, please respond directly to
Fleck at newton.franlincoll.edu

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Date: Monday, 16 May 94 16:50:34 CST
From: Alan P Van Dyke <llapv at utxdp.dp.utexas.edu>
Subject: staples in beer

Howdy!

In HBD 1424, Dave in Sydney mentions that he used a stapled cheesecloth bag
for his hops, & wants to know if there is any problem with the metal.  I
would be more worried about the plastic adhesive that keeps the staples
together.  I'm not sure what it is or what it can do, which is what bothers
me.  So, try this.  Get ten staples out of your local stapler, still stuck
together.  Carefully peel off the plastic film that holds them together.  Now,
look at it & say to yourself, "Do I want this in my boiling wort for an hour?"


Also in HBD 1424, Richard Childers attacks Charlie Papazian's dinner posting
as an ad.  I'm not too clear as to what it is, but if no one's making a
business profit, I don't see a problem.  Lot's of stuff is advertised on the
HBD that cost money, & is done so by the organizers.If it's a fund raiser,
fine.  If he's personally trying to make a grand, bad.

Alan of Austin

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1425, 05/17/94