FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  wheat beer questions (brian.dulisse)
  Re: Malta Goya (Craig Pepin)
  MEAD ARTICLE - HELP (RICK ZYDENBOS)
  Culturing Yeast from Primary (TJWILLIA)
  address change (Paul Merrifield)
  friges (Alan_Marshall)
  Re: GLATT MILL INFO (David Holsclaw)
  more raw (really raw) oats (Marc de Jonge)
  Green (really!) beer (Fulmen)
  Siphoning ("pratte")
  Looking for a recipe (GERRY)
  Advertising on HBD ("Rich Scotty")
  Schools? (Alton Clark Dubois)
  Re: Yeasts (Jim Busch)
  Wormwood is it! (Jakob Carlstr|m )
  Re: "Common" problem? (Bill Szymczak)
  Wormwood (Pierre Jelenc)
  What about more COMMON yeasts? (Spencer.W.Thomas)
  Advertising vs References ( was "Charlie Bashing" ) (Conan-the-Librarian)
  Motorizing your Glatt (David Pike)
  Brew Supply shops in Toronto ( LARRY KELLY)
  Thanks for the manifold plans/sierra.stanford.edu/Zima ("JAMES W. KEESLER")
  Spec. Grav. and Refractive Index, Absinthe, Siphoning (Nancy.Renner)
  Special London Ale yeast: tastes GReat! (Mark Evans)
  mills (Timothy P Daley)
  Gosser is Austrian! (Mike Dix)
  Wormwood.. ("NAME SEAN O'KEEFE, IFAS FOOD SCIENCE")
  Homebrew Digest #1424 (Ma (Jim King)
  Mill alternatives (djt2)
  Dry Hopping / AHA Conference in Denver (npyle)
  Re: Heated Mash Tuns (Jim Busch)
  Homebrew Digest #1426 (Ma (Chuck Wettergreen)
  the continuing Wormwood debate (es76)
  re- headaches (George Tempel)
  STAINLESS STEEL "CARBONATOR"?? (Richard B Foehringer)
  Beer On Travel, Monterey CA ("Mark Fredrickson")


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: 17 May 94 17:46:23-0500
From: brian.dulisse at wpo.ftc.gov
Subject: wheat beer questions

although i have enough homebrew to keep me from really worrying
about this, i am kind of annoyed.  i followed the extract recipe
in papazian, using a couple of cans of m&f wheat/barley extract. 
at the end of the boil, the wort looked rather darker than i had
anticipated, but i did not worry; no, i pitched a nice puffy pack
of wyeast bavarian (3056?).  i let it ferment away while i was in
atlanta (thanks to all those who sent info on places to drink
beer; i'm confining my apartment search to places within crawling
distance of taco mac's) for about 12 days.  since i wasn't
around, i can't know what the air temperature was in my
apartment, but i'm skeptical of the likelihood that it got much
over 70 f for any appreciable amount of time.  when i bottled,
the beer was still pretty dark (it looked sort of like a pale ale
without the reddish tinge), and did not have a particularly
wheat-like smell (although the glop stuck on the side of the
fermenter did).  i bottled about 3.5 weeks ago, and tried a
bottle the other day (i know that's a bit early, but i was
curious).  it was kind of watery, and it didn't really taste like
much of anything.  it didn't taste bad, or as if i had a
breakdown in sanitation, it just didn't taste much like a wheat
beer.

has anyone else had this kind of experience using charlie's
recipe (or other extract-based wheat recipes)?  if not, does
anybody have any hypotheses on what has gone wrong (both in terms
the color and the lack of expected flavor profile)?  could it be
that the bavarian was the wrong type of yeast (i.e., can you only
get the banana/clove flavor with the 3068 yeast)?  finding a
solution to this problem is critical, because i took the old
dominion brewery tour this weekend, and discovered that they
aren't going to be releasing their wheat beer until after i leave
town.

email direct to brian.dulisse at wpo.ftc.gov

thanks.  i gotta go have a paulaner.

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Date: Tue, 17 May 1994 17:52:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: Craig Pepin <ckp at acpub.duke.edu>
Subject: Re: Malta Goya

While on the subject of non fermented malt drinks,

Aass, the Norwegian brewer of wonderful imported Bocks, pilsners,
Julols, etc., makes an unfermented malt product called Vorterol (please
put a slash through the last "o" to get the proper Norwegian spelling)

This product is carbonated, but is not overly sweet somehow.  I first
encountered it during a 45 kilometer ski race, when the last water stop
was sponsored by Aass and they served only Vorterol there - not what I
wanted to be drinking at that point (Actually, they served hot water and
honey at the first two stops, another weird concoction for the middle of
a ski race).  Since I had just turned 18 and legal by Norwegian standards
that year, I spent more time drinking other AAss products that year.

On another note, I don't find the occasional use of the HBD to mention a
new product or event of interest to homebrewers all that noisome.  On the
other hand, repeated bad mouthing of other products in the interests of
one's own product is rather annoying.  I suspect the owner of a certain
grain mill company and I might differ on the exact definition of 
"heavy-handed advertising."

Craig Pepin
Duke University   ckp at acpub.duke.edu

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Date: Wed, 18 May 1994 08:10:33 +1200 (NZST)
From: RICK ZYDENBOS <ZYDENBOSR at INVERMAY.CRI.NZ>
Subject: MEAD ARTICLE - HELP


Still very interested in hearing from anyone who remembers
an article on Mead production at Havell's Meadery in
New Zealand written by either Charlie Papazian or Michael
Jackson in Zygmurgy a year or two back. Big reward offered!!
  (Well, masses of thanks anyway!)

Cheers in advance

Rick Zydenbos


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Date: Tue,  17 May 94 16:56:30 EDT
From: <TJWILLIA%OCC.bitnet at CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Culturing Yeast from Primary

I've read a number of sources discussing both culturing yeast onto plates and
slants, as well as re-using yeast slurry from either the primary or secondary
fermenters.  It was mentioned a number of times that subsequent re-pitching
of yeast slurry yields better results on successive batches.  The only problem
I see is that you need to us the slurry within a relatively short time-frame
(within a couple of weeks) before it starts turning sour (lysing).  My question
is this:

Is it possible to culture the yeast from the primary/secondary and still get
better results from batch to batch? (i.e., re-culture each batch's slurry)

  on the same note...

Would contamination be an issue with this method and what should we watch out
for?

It seems to me that all the benefits would be preserved and allow brewers to
hold on longer to good performing cultures.

Any responses would be appreciated.  Thanks.

Tom Williams
(tjwillia at occ.bitnet)  or (tjwillia%occ.bitnet at pucc.princeton.edu)


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Date: 	Tue, 17 May 1994 19:19:00 -0400
From: paul.merrifield at ONLINESYS.COM (Paul Merrifield)
Subject: address change

My new internet address will start some time tonight at:
         paul.merrifield at softnet.com
     Thankyou very much,
        Paul

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Date: Tue, 17 May 1994 20:46 EDT
From: Alan_Marshall <AK200032 at Sol.YorkU.CA>
Subject: friges

Brian posts in HBD:

>I'd appreciate comments on defrost vs non-defrost friges for brewing.
>Private replies to eddie-brian at uiowa.edu

If you get a fridge without a freezer (1) you never need to defrost
it;  (2) they are cheaper;  (3) maintenance is cheaper;  (4) they use
less energy than combined units. 

Alan

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Date: Tue, 17 May 1994 22:19:07 -0500 (CDT)
From: dhholscl at rs6000.cmp.ilstu.edu (David Holsclaw)
Subject: Re: GLATT MILL INFO

In a recent message Dirk Houser wrote:

> I WAS FINALLY ABLE TO BUY ONE FOR $109.  THEIR OLD PRICE WAS $89.  I WAS TO
> FAR DOWN ON THE LIST TO GET THE OLD PRICE.  I HAVEN'T RECEIVED IT YET BUT
> EXPECT IT BY THE END OF THE WEEK.  PERHAPS, I'M OPTIMISTIC.

Would you please reply via direct email as to where you found the above price
and a short enough waiting list that you feel you might see your mill within a
week.

I have been half-heartedly looking since December and have finally decided to
take the plunge (if I can find one).

Thanks.
- --
David Holsclaw
dhholscl at rs6000.cmp.ilstu.edu

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Date: Wed, 18 May 94 12:32:44 +0200
From: dejonge at tekserv.geof.ruu.nl (Marc de Jonge)
Subject: more raw (really raw) oats

In HBD 1426 Daniel McConnell wrote:

>Jeff B. admits that he uses Quaker Oats.   Good.   Now I'm looking for
>another confession.  Has anyone used horse feed in brewing?

Just a funny thing I've read in a Belgian book on homebrewing.
In the section describing various grains:
"Six row barley is grown for cattle fodder, it is unsuitable
for brewing."

_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
Marc de Jonge                             dejonge at geof.ruu.nl
Utrecht University, Geophysics dept, Utrecht, the Netherlands
 -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-


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Date: Wed, 18 May 1994 21:35:11 +0930 (CST)
From: zoz at cs.adelaide.edu.au (Fulmen)
Subject: Green (really!) beer

Hiya folks - I am planning to brew a mint ale (right after I bottle my
chocolate cherry stout :) by using dried peppermint leaves for "finishing"
as one would normally do with hops.  I'd also like to make it green, in order
to irritate my friends and for something special to break out on St Patrick's
day :) and was wondering if there was anything I could use for this other
than green food colouring, simply because it would be more fun to do it
"naturally".  Anyone have any ideas on "natural greening"?  Thanks,
- --
                            zoz at cs.adelaide.edu.au

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Date:          Wed, 18 May 1994 08:04:11 EST
From: "pratte" <PRATTE at GG.csc.peachnet.edu>
Subject:       Siphoning

There have been a couple of post recently about sucking on the end of 
siphoning tube in order to get it started.  Yesterday, Jim mentioned 
placing your hand over the end of the tubing and sucking on your 
hand.  I believe a better method is the following.  Sanitize the 
small piece of plastic pipe you use connect your rubber stopper to 
your blow off tube (if you don't have one, cut a 3 inch section off 
of the top of a bottling cane).  Insert this just barely (1/4 inch) 
into your siphoning tube.  Suck on this and pinch the tube when the 
wort has made it to the end of the tube.  Remove the piece of pipe 
and place the tube in the appropriate vessel.  This way, neither your 
mouth or your hands have to touch the end of the siphoning tube.

John

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Date: Wed, 18 May 1994 8:22:35 -0500 (CDT)
From: GERRY at CRPL.CEDAR-RAPIDS.LIB.IA.US
Subject: Looking for a recipe

I'm new to the list, so please excuse me if these are often-asked questions.\

First, I'm looking for a recipe to brew a beer that is like Beck's dark. Can
anyone tell me where to find this?

Also, has anyone seen a book or a good article on the process of establishing
a brewpub or microbrewery?

Thanks in advance,
Gerald

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Date: 18 May 1994 07:35:51 U
From: "Rich Scotty" <rscotty at denitqm.ecte.uswc.uswest.com>
Subject: Advertising on HBD

                      Subject:                              Time:  7:31 AM
  OFFICE MEMO         Advertising on HBD                    Date:  5/18/94
Mike Zentner Wirtes:

>I for one, would like to see more commercial posts on the digest,
>especially those that offer some truly new product, ie, Jack
>Schmidlings Maltmill when it first came out, because I'd rather hear it
>straight from the source than waiting however many months it takes to
>get into print...it's just plain faster and more convenient.

I agree with some additional guidlines.  Product and event announcements are
fine *ONE* time.  I don't want to see advertising along the lines of "Buy this
great beer widget" every day or week.  Keep the announcements short to conserve
space on the digest.  Requests for additional information should be handled via
private email.

What does the great collective wisdom of the HBD think?

Rich Scotty
"Under the most carefully controlled conditions, yeast will do as it damn well
pleases."



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Date: Wed, 18 May 1994 08:50:13 -0500 (CDT)
From: Alton Clark Dubois <CRFDUBOISAC at CRF.CUIS.EDU>
Subject: Schools?

 I'm new to this process and had heard, seen, or read somewhere about a school
in the Chicago area [where I'm from] that has classes for professional
brewmasters and novices - probably not in the same class.  Does anyone know the
name or know of one that I can get information from?  Thanks.
Alton Clark Dubois
CRFDUBOISAC at CRF.CUIS.EDU

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Date: Wed, 18 May 1994 09:56:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: Re: Yeasts

Rick writes:
> Subject: What about more COMMON yeasts?
> 
> The folks brewing beer seem to know best about *YEAST*, so I thought I'd
> ask here:
> 
> 	Why all the fancy yeast?

Because after you master the cooking side of beer production (wort 
formulation), the most important aspect of brewing is fermentation.
The most important aspect of fermentation is yeast.  You cannot make
many beers with the same yeast, it just doesnt work this way.

> Dry Active Yeast from the baking section of the nearest grocery.  Are these
> named-and-numbered yeasts really that much better?

Yes, by factors of 100.
> 
> {By Whom,Where,How} are different strains of yeast developed/found/isolated?

Yeast labs/banks located in Europe and Chicago.
> 
> And what about wild yeast?  How would I start out, if I didn't have any
> place to buy yeast from?  (Just curious, for historical interest.)

Bad.
> 
> If the answers would read too much like an advanced course in microbiology,
> I'll understand if you decide to blow these questions off.  Still, there
> had to have been reliable means of doing this for brewers centuries ago to
> brew decent beer... and they didn't know microbiology.

Yeah, and beer back then never tasted near as good as today.  And lets not
even think about consistency.
> 
> (BTW:  The baking yeast I've used is a bottom yeast, in case you wondered.)

Use it for baking, thats what its for.

Jim Busch

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Date: Wed, 18 May 94 16:00:51 +0200
From: Jakob Carlstr|m <jakobc at Mordred.DoCS.UU.SE>
Subject: Wormwood is it!


There have been lots of articles lately telling how dangerous wormwood is.
Precaution is good, OK, but I think this is getting ridiculous. In Sweden,
Denmark, Germany and other European countries, liquor containing wormwood
extract are sold and consumed without people getting poisoned. 

Some examples: Gammel Dansk (Denmark), Baska Droppar (Sweden) and Underberg 
(Germany). Blending one's own wormwood vodka is common practice in southern 
Sweden. The recipe is simple: Soak the dried flowers in vodka for some week.
Remove solids, mix with vodka to the taste you prefer. Optionally, add half a
teaspoon honey to make it a bit smoother. I have had gallons of this throughout
the years, and not yet become an impressionist painter :-)

I do not know if or why absinthe made people crazy, but don't blame responsible
use of wormwood without good evidence!

Jakob Carlstrom

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Date: Wed, 18 May 94 10:03:26 EDT
From: bszymcz%ulysses at relay.nswc.navy.mil (Bill Szymczak)
Subject: Re: "Common" problem?

In yesterdays digest Joe Clayton asked about an overcarbonated 
"Common" beer.
>From: claytonj at cc.tacom.army.mil
>Subject: "Common" problem?

> ...... 
>shaking until the carboy is full of foam.  The yeast was pitched at 68 degF
>and fermentation was at 54 degF for 10 days primary and 13 days secondary. 
> .......
>alcohol.  OG was 1.062 and FG was 1.024.  

>The primary fermentation was normal but the secondary looked cloudy and had
>clumps of foam on the surface.  Churning was still visible within the wort. 
>The previous batch I brewed had a similar look and turned out fine so I didn't
>worry.  When I bottled (3/4 cup corn sugar) the beer tasted strangely sweet
>and a bit green.  I can't think of any other flavor but strange to describe
>it, not bad but strange, and not what I expected.  After a month in the bottle
>the beer was clear and the green flavor went away the carbonation and body was
>good but the strange sweetness was still there.  Now after 4 months, the beer
>foams uncontrollably with large bubbles when poured into a glass, the body is
>a little thinner, the flavor is about the same and there is a cloudy
>precipitate that does not compact in the bottom of the bottles.  The foaming
>only occurs when the beer is poured.  Now for the $10,000 question.  

>                  ????? INFECTION ?????

The key here is your definition of "strange sweetness".  If it is unpleasant
and other "classical" off-flavors such as solventlike, bandaid, or if in
addition to the sweetness there is sourness, then I would say infection.  
However, since you also said

>I thought that most infections were evident at bottling time. There was
>nothing unpleasant about the smell or flavor of the beer.  I use chlorine

it seems most likely that you simply bottled too soon considering 
your FG of 1.024.  At a temp of 54F even Lager yeasts take longer to ferment
and you probably should have let it sit in primary for at least 14 days, and
maybe even 21 days before recking to secondary.  What probably happened is
that the beer had not finished fermenting in primary, and you removed
most of the yeast when racking to secondary setting back the fermentation
even more.  Come to think of it, with this fermentation, diacetyl is a
good probability (and can be described as a "strange sweetness").

If the beer is good, you may be able to salvage it by slowly bleeding
out the excess carbonation by slightly opening the caps.  If the beer begins
to foam in the bottle, reseal, wait a few minutes and repeat a few more
times. This should also prevent any bottle grenades. 

Bill Szymczak         (Gaithersburg, MD)
bszymcz at ulysses.nswc.navy.mil   

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Date: Wed, 18 May 94 10:54:17 EDT
From: Pierre Jelenc <pcj1 at columbia.edu>
Subject: Wormwood

In a fit of sanity, Yeebot at aol.com writes:

>First off, wormwood is a legal plant and used by many people for everyday
>medicinal purposes. 

But was still taken in by the past 80 years of relentless propaganda:

>As for Absinthe, I would suspect it's toxicity arose from the concentration
>of wormwood oil, a "speedball" reaction with alcohol (in which case beer or
>wine would probably not be a good idea), or something with the distillation
>process. 

Absinthe was made as a 190-proof (i.e. 95%) alcoholic drink. Just as gin
wreaked havoc in Britain in the late 18th and early 19th centuries,
absinthe wreaked havoc in France, Belgium, and Switzerland at the turn of
the 19th century. Alcoholism was the cause, but there was no way the
French would attempt anything like prohibition. A convenient scapegoat was
found in absinthe; since it was the prefered drink of poets, painters,
cabaret singers, and other societal rejects, the good citizens could
easily soothe their anxiety and put all the blame on "them". 

Manufacturers knew perfectly well what was going on, and when they came 
out with a substitute, pastis, they wisely kept it at around 100 proof, 
and emphasized in advertising that one should add lots of water to it. 
Absinthe continued to be legal in Spain, where it had traditionally been 
drunk more diluted, as a cooling summer drink rather than as a quick trip 
into alcoholic stupor as it had been in France.

Wormwood, being exceedingly bitter, cannot be used in large quantities. It
simply cannot. While it is true that pure oil of wormwood is toxic, it is
not especially more toxic than oil of peppermint, oil of thyme, or for
that matter oil of hops. Typical acute toxicities for such
terpene-containing aromatic oils cluster around 1g/kg (LD50 in rats). 

>Well, as for me, I think I could muster the curiosity to try a glass of
>absinthe if anyone's got a dusty old bottle of Pernod from 1875. How
>about you? 

Take a bottle of Pernod, put in one twig of wormwood (as much as a 
typical supermarket twig of parsley), and wait a couple of weeks. 

ObBeer: To brew, for bitterness add the wormwood in the boil. Thujone is
_not_ the major bittering principle of wormwood, incidentally, so it can
be boiled away while still retaining considerable bitterness. 

Pierre


Pierre Jelenc                        pcj1 at columbia.edu 
                                    Columbia University, New York

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Date: Wed, 18 May 94 11:11:27 EDT
From: Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu
Subject: What about more COMMON yeasts?


Rick Miller writes:
 > 	Why all the fancy yeast?

I used to wonder the same thing, but the fact is that the yeast can
have a significant effect on the beer's flavor.  The (much-maligned in
this forum) "yeastola" convinced me of this, if I wasn't convinced
before.  We made 50 gallons of beer and fermented it in 5 gallon
batches with 10 different yeasts.  Thus: same beer, different yeast.
The results were, in some cases, *very* different.  Admittedly, some
of the differences were more subtle.

Recently, a friend & I made 15 gallons of Wit (Belgian wheat) beer and
split it into 5 3-gallon batches, each with its own yeast.  The
results ranged from very fruity, through spicy to downright phenolic.
These batches (as opposed to the yeastola) were fermented together in
a single location, so there should be no other factor affecting the
flavor other than the yeast.  Very convincing!

=S

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Date: Wed, 18 May 1994 08:27:55 -0700
From: pascal at netcom.com (Conan-the-Librarian)
Subject: Advertising vs References ( was "Charlie Bashing" )


"Date: Tue, 17 May 1994 07:54:39 -0500
 From: Mike Zentner <zentner at ecn.purdue.edu>
 Subject: Re: Charlie bashing


"Jim Doyle wrote:

">Am I the only one who was surprised at the negative tone which richard
 >childers' response to Papazian's announcement carried?

And Mike Zenter replies :

"I was not.  In fact, I'll go you one further.  There are a few people 
 on the digest who only want to see the things they want to see, and
 berate the rest of the world when they see something they don't want to
 see, claiming it wastes their precious time."


Au contraire. I have nothing against Papazian, his book is the only one I
have and it has proven more useful than, say, Byron Burch's book. I have
books on a variety of tangential topics .... yeast, hops, meads ... but
only one book on beer.

As a matter of fact, a Christmas or two back I went out and bought dear ol'
dad a copy of the _New_ CJOHB, as the best book I knew of on the topic. And
now dear ol' dad's brewing up a Northeast storm, alewise.

Any more insubstantial conclusions that anyone wishes to draw ?

I'm opposed to advertising on the Net, and that's pretty much it. Yes, it's
a waste of my time. I'm interested in information ... not propoganda.

Especially about something that that's 2000 miles away and totally irrele-
 -vant to anyone but a small clique of brewers in Chicago ... whom drink Pete's
Wicked Ale and use the good stuff for cooking ...		(-:



- -- richard


                 Law : The science of assigning responsibility.
              Politics : The art of _distributing_ responsibility. 

   richard childers        san francisco, california        pascal at netcom.com

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Date: Wed, 18 May 1994 08:38:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: davep at corp.cirrus.com (David Pike)
Subject: Motorizing your Glatt

I just attach my 3/8 inch drill motor, and grind away. Actually I have two
drill motors, a Makita cordless with two speeds, and an old corded model.
The Lower speed setting on the Makita works the best, andover time will
probably be less strain on the bearings.

Cheers!

Dave Pike


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Date: Wed, 18 May 1994 11:34:22 EDT
From: KMYH09A at prodigy.com ( LARRY KELLY)
Subject: Brew Supply shops in Toronto

Does any one know of any brew supply shops in the Toronto Canada area?

Larry KMYH09A at PRODIGY.COM


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Date: 17 May 94 21:59:18 EDT
From: "JAMES W. KEESLER" <74021.376 at CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Thanks for the manifold plans/sierra.stanford.edu/Zima

Thanks to the subscribers who sent me info on how to make a copper 
manifold for my water cooler.
 I put some of the pieces together tonight will get the fittings and 
put it all together before I try it out
on Friday.  Will post success or failure afterwards.

Since I am on Compuserve and not the Internet, can anyone tell me how I 
can access
sierra.stanford.edu?  I have seen several postings indicating that 
there is a vast well
of information there.  TIA for any assistance.

The NY Daily News described Zima the best:  Zucks!!!

Regards,

Jim Keesler
Compuserve 74021,376


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Date: Wed, 18 May 94 12:30:20 EDT
From: Nancy.Renner at um.cc.umich.edu
Subject: Spec. Grav. and Refractive Index, Absinthe, Siphoning

>From *Jeff* Renner 
 
I have recently acquired an unused National Instrument Co. Model 100/C *Hand 
Proctometer* (which isn't what it sounds like) that was disposed of as 
surplus by the Univ. of Mich.  This is a beautifully made, temperature 
corrected instrument that looks like a six inch long telescope and measures 
the refractive index (1.3330 to 1.3600) of a single drop of liquid.  A 
calibrated etched scale in the viewer reads this as urine specific gravity 
(1.000 to 1.045) or blood serum protein (0 to 12 g/dl).  You place a drop on 
a prism, close a cover, and hold it to your eye up to the light (see the 
naked lady?).  I have seen vineyard workers measure S.G. of grape must in 
the field using such an instrument and a drop of juice from a single grape.  
This would be a great quick way of measuring S.G. of wort and finished beer 
if I could calibrate it but I see some problems.  Urine, blood serum and 
grape juice have presumably predictable, uniform mixes of refractive 
dissolved compounds, whereas wort has varying mixes of several sugars, and 
finished beer has varying amounts of alcohol as well.  Does anyone have any 
experience with the refractive indices of wort and beer, or of the 
components of these?  How much does the R.I. to S.G. of wort vary depending 
on mash schedule and temperature?  I have one data point:  a pale ale wort 
at 1.046 read 1.036 on the internal urine S.G. scale. 
 
I'd love to use this beauty.  It must have cost a pretty penny new.  I also 
have a used motorized, vacuum operated refractometer (Behring Rapidmat II 
Digital Refractometer).  I imagine this could be used to continuously 
monitor S.G. as sparge was pulled off in a big scale operation.  I haven't 
figured out how I'll use this yet. 
 
***************** 
ABSINTHE was still made in Spain by Pernod as recently as 1974 (Lechine, 
Alexis, New Encyclopedia of Wines and Spirits: 1974).  I don't have a more 
recent source. 
 
***************** 
CLEAN SIPHONING:  When I boil my siphon hose, I just throw in a three inch 
piece of broken siphon cane.  I attach this to the end of the hose, suck on 
it and remove it when the flow begins.  At no time do my lips touch the hose. 
 
Thanks for any help.  Private E-mail ok c/o my wife's address or post if of 
general interest. 
 
Jeff 

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Date: Wed, 18 May 1994 11:30:06 -600 (CDT)
From: Mark Evans <evanms at lcac1.loras.edu>
Subject: Special London Ale yeast: tastes GReat!


A while back I enlisted the HBD's expert amateurs (and other wise) for
help with a finicky Special Londan Ale yeast (wyeast).  The Pale is up to
speed and the flavor is excellent.  The slightly higher than normal FG did
not affect the overall flavor.  This beer has a particularly English
flavor, like I've had it in some fancy pub.  The clarity is excellent, the
yeast cakes out hard on the bottom and does not pour into the glass when
filled.  I highly reccomend it.  Thanks for everyone's help!  
	I brewed a stout and adjusted the mash temp to be lower than
normal (149-151F).  My OG was 1.057.  When all signs appeared to halt, I
checked the gravity: about 1.022.  I roused the carboy and added a couple
of ounces of saved dregs from the primary.  I got another mini ferment
going with a thin foamy head on the beer.  After  a week, the beer
cleared, and my FG was 1.017: satisfactory for an OG in the high fifties. 
the taste at bottling was great, maybe more of a sweet stout.  
	I quickly got the yeast going again in a kind of hybrid belgian
white beer style with coriander, ginger, and orange peel.  With a gravity
in the low forties and that spritzy white beer taste, this should be the
perfect summer beer.  Maybe I'll just sit out with a mug full and watch my
hop vines grow.  (the damn things are already 12 feet off the ground!)

Ahh...homebrewing is great!

Brewfully, mark evans*****mashing on the upper Mississippi**************

<evanms at lcac1.loras.edu>
Dubuque, Iowa





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Date: Wed, 18 May 1994 13:11:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: Timothy P Daley <tpdst4+ at pitt.edu>
Subject: mills

Just a quick note on the grain mill thread of late. Is this GlattMill(tm?)
similar at all to the Philmill(tm?) that I've seen, and have been planning
to buy?  I've only seen it in the Williams Brewing catalogue and it
appears to be a good deal, it being a steel roller type (not the
Coraona-smasher) for about $70.  Any info would be greatly appreciated.



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Date: Wed, 18 May 94 11:08:18 PDT"
From: Mike Dix <mdix at dcssc.sj.hp.com>
Subject: Gosser is Austrian!

To set the record straight:  Gosser is a fine _Austrian_ beer, in my
experience the most readily available Austrian beer in the US.  The
Stiftsbrau (means something like Monastery beer), is a dark, flavorful,
and I believe lower alcohol beer.  I was told by an Austrian relative, on a
visit in '82, that Stiftsbrau was a favorite of pregnant women, whether for
nutritional reasons or lower alcohol content I am not sure.

Umlauts and -e's removed for easy reading.

By the way, does anyone know where to find Reininghaus beers in the US?

Mike Dix

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Date: Wed, 18 May 1994 14:09:09 -0500 (EST)
From: "NAME SEAN O'KEEFE, IFAS FOOD SCIENCE" <SFO at gnv.ifas.ufl.edu>
Subject: Wormwood..

In Alexis Lachine's 1977 Wines & Spirits book he points out that a Dr.
Ordinaire invented Absinthe in 1797.  He also states that (at least in 1977)
wormwood-containing absinthe was still available in Spain, and Pernod makes
Absinthe withh wormwood inSpain.  My Merck Manual is a bit more sanguine 
"Caution:  Ingestion of the volatile oil or of the liquer, absinthe, may
cause G.I. symptoms, nervousness, stupor, convulsions, death".  They don't
bother pointing out that drinking a fifth of vodka straight will kill you
either.  Anything I'm told I can't have for my own good I WANT!! 

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Date: Mon, 16 May 94 21:36:00 -0800
From: jim.king at kandy.com (Jim King)
Subject: Homebrew Digest #1424 (Ma


H> Someone posted a question to the group about the availibility of Glat
H> mill and the silence adds to the intrigue.  Not hearing any response,
H> offer what I have observed and ask again if Glatt is to be taken seri
H> 
H> I have yet to talk to a dealer who has them in stock or even knows wh
H> she will have them. 

  I bought mine at Fun Fermentations in Orange, CA.  They got their 
order from Glatt about 4 months late, but in enough quantity that he had 
them in stock for quite a while.  I'm not sure if he still has them in 
stock.  (sorry, I just shop there.)

  In terms of a review, I would take this mill VERY seriously.  It is an 
extremely good mill, was easy to connect to a drill for automation, and 
makes a consistant crush.  One of my friends has one of your (Jack 
Schmidling) mills, and in terms of comparison I would say there are some 
trade-offs.
  I like the crush from the Glatt better, and I like the fact that it 
does not come connected to a base, so I can attach it to whatever 
surface I like.  Also, the adjustable Glatt is only a little more 
expensive than the non-adjustable Schmidling Mill, and cheaper than the 
adjustable Schmidling.
  OTOH, The Glatt comes with a handle which is longer than the mill is 
tall, so if you are going to use the handle (rather than using a drill), 
you HAVE to attach it to the corner of a table.  Also, the output chute 
runs about 45 degrees downward, pouring the crushed grain in a nice path 
to go into a bucket, but it is not contained, so if you crush too fast 
(like with a high speed drill on full speed), grain can go flying 
everywhere.  

  BTW, I find that the adjustable rollers are very desirable.  Even 
though my friends Schmidling Mill is fixed at a distance which is good, 
I was able to adjust my Glatt so as to get an even better crush.  
(DISCLAIMER:  I would assume that the adjustable Schmidling Mill can be 
equally adjusted).

  In summary, If Mr. Glatt ever learns to run a business (ie: shipping 
in quantity enough to satisfy the demand), he will definitely give you a 
run for your money.  At least there are now TWO better alternatives to 
the old fashioned Corona mills.

Jim King
jim.king at kandy.com
                           

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Date: Wed, 18 May 1994 15:12:45 -0400
From: djt2 at po.cwru.edu
Subject: Mill alternatives

A lot of recent discussion about motorizing the new breed of home-scale
roller mills prompts me to write about a mill that has served me perfectly
for the last few years.

It is a grocery-store coffee grinder that I picked up through the want ads
for $50. When I described it here at the time the responses were "they give
you nothing but flour" but after two years experience I think these were
from folks whe had used grinders that were not adjusted properly, or who
were snobby purists. These machines use grinding plates as do the much
maligned Corona, but they have large interlocking knobs on the plate that
provide *momentary* contact between the plates rather than a shearing grind
like the Corona.

I got the big grinder (30" tall) that looks a little like a slot machine. I
had to clean out the grinder plates, and loosen the adjusting knob a turn
or two to get the plates set the right distance apart. Now a little turn of
the handle from "fine" (does well with unmalted wheat) to "perk" (does
great with pale two-row) to "coarse" (crushed burnt malts without
pulverizing) allows me to crush anything I'd like to put in a mash. I think
that the lack of adjustability severely limits the available home roller
mills (Jack, ever put raw wheat through a MM?) Crush time is 1-2 minutes
for 10#.

Is it a perfect crush? As good as I've ever seen. The husks are whole, and
*most* of the malt kernels are in 4-6 pieces. There is a little flour, but
mostly when using raw wheat and even then only about 5%. I've never had a
stuck sparge, I think because the malt husks are whole.

I recommend keeping your eyes peeled for one of these things. The only
regret I have is that I miss the experience of cranking a hand mill for 45
minutes, and the subtle taste of the sweat that dripped off my brow into
the grain in the old days.

good luck
dennis



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Date: Tue, 17 May 94 12:57:01 MDT
From: npyle at n33.ecae.stortek.com
Subject: Dry Hopping / AHA Conference in Denver

Rick Gontarek wrote:

>.........................................................  Is it
>better to dry-hop with whole-leaf hops? And if so, how much whole
>leaf hops do I use?

I prefer whole leaf hops (as long as you can get them in good shape) for
many reasons.  I think they give better hop aroma since they are not
processed like pellets and plugs.  They float, so racking out from under them
is easy (I use a hop bag over the end of the racking cane).  Putting them
into the carboy is pretty easy with a funnel.  The amount depends on the type
of hop.  I think that 2 oz. of EKGs is not too much for 5 gallons, but I
wouldn't use that much Cascades.  It is a matter of choice, of course, so
you'll have to experiment to see what you like.  Freshness is the key...

**

Am I the only one who's had too many homebrews and can't figure out the AHA
conference schedule?  If a talk is not in the "General Session" how do figure
out when it is?  For example, if I want to go to Bob Jones' talk, how do I
relate the little paragraph about it to a Session #?  Either I'm missing some
vital information, or the ad in Zymurgy is real lacking.  I would appreciate
someone helping me out, via email as I don't think this is of interest to
even 10% of HBD members.

Thanks and Cheers,
Norm  =  npyle at n33.stortek.com

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Date: Wed, 18 May 1994 15:48:21 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: Re: Heated Mash Tuns

John asks about step mashing:
> Subject: Step Mashing Questions
> 
> Anyhow, my question boils down to this: How useful is a propane fired,
> insulated keg Mash/Lauter tun compared to a cooler? In other words, what will
> Step Mashing capability really do for me?  Here is my data that lead to these
> questions:


Snip...
> 
> I guess it comes down to: What Style would I be trying to Brew?
> 

The big thing I like about a heated tun is the flexibility it gives you
to change things.  Malts, adjuncts, temps, times, thickness...  My basic ale
is a american pale ale, infusion for a rest at 153F, then mash off at 
170.  As you noted, mash stiffness is not sacraficed when raising the 
temp using heat as opposed to using hot water in a cooler.  If you are
just making ales like this, a cooler is probably as good as a heated 
tun.  Now, when you want to make a Wit bier, or a HefeWeizen or a 
DoppelBock...then you must have a method of temperature controlled
mashing.  With the last two examples, a step mash is mandatory, and
a decoction is preferred.  Take the example of making a Weizen.  Typical
mash temps are 110F, 122, 126, 132, 144, 158, 168F.  How thin is the
mash going to be if you do this in a cooler?  Now certainly you can
use a cooler and decoct to raise the temps, and Im sure there are
many HBDers who make excellent beers this way.  I like to maximize 
the quality of my beers (and volume!) while minimizing the work 
effort.  It takes a lot more effort to decoct in a cooler than it
does to just add heat and stir.  

Whether its a benefit or not, direct fired tuns will produce more 
melonoiden reactions than cooler infusions, giving the beer a different
quality.  

good brewing,

Jim Busch


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Date: Wed, 18 May 94 14:23:00 -0600
From: chuck.wettergreen at aquila.com (Chuck Wettergreen)
Subject: Homebrew Digest #1426 (Ma


In HBD # 1426 "Daniel F McConnell" <Daniel.F.McConnell at med.umich.edu> 
wrote:

PN> another confession.  Has anyone used horse feed in brewing?  I was
PN> in my sister's barn the other day and naturally walked over to the
PN> grains. There was cracked corn, raw oats and sweet feed.  Cracked
PN> corn sells for $.05/lb (no wonder the majors use the stuff).  Raw
PN> oats have a large amount of husk that should help in sparging.

PN> I suppose that the oats are the most useful (after cooking of
PN> course). Anyone had any experience?  I may try it in my next wit or

Last November I made my Jimmy-Crack-Corn ale using newly harvested shell 
corn and fresh oats. I cooked 4 pounds of ground shell corn and 1 
pound of ground oats for 1/2 hour (thereabouts) until gelatinized added 
cooled water until within mash temperature range and then mashed with 5 
pounds of 2-row.

For some reason I fermented with both an ale and champagne yeast. The 
beer came out a beautiful clear golden hue, crystal clear, a stiff 
small-bubble head that lasted for hours, and a flavor that one 
friend said tasted EXACTLY like Juicy Fruit Gum. It was tasty stuff and 
I'll be making it again soon. Go for it!

Chuck


 * RM 1.3 00946 * Protect your right to keep and arm bears.

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Date: Wed, 18 May 94 13:11 EDT
From: Eric_SARLIN at umail.umd.edu (es76)
Subject: the continuing Wormwood debate

Fellow homebrewers,

I've been following the recent discussion of brewing with wormwood, and
would like to add my two cents.  Recently, someone posted that many
post-impressionist painters drank absinthe which contains wormwood, and
hypothesized that the drink gave these painters their unique perspective of
the world.  Similar arguments have been made about playwright August
Strindberg, often considered the father of expressionist drama, who was known
to down large quantities of absinthe while he wrote, even after governments
illegalized the stuff.

I'm a little skeptical about basing interpretations of these artists' works on
the fact that they all drank wormwood.  I am, however, more comfortable with
using the evidence provided by the numerous biographical accounts of these
artists' lives to argue against consuming wormwood for non-medicinal purposes.
Most know that Van Gogh was not the most stable of people.  I won't guess
whether wormwood caused or accelerated his mental condition.  His
insanity--manifesting itself in argumentative relationships with his family,
self-destructive relationships with women, self-mutilation, and suicide--is
enough to put me off of wormwood.

Strindberg led a similarly sad life.  He broke up with his first wife early
in his career, in an age (the late nineteenth century) when divorce was
scandalous.  Throughout his life, he and members of his family suffered nervous
breakdowns and institutionalization.  He also saw two more marriages fail,
and his children estranged from him.  A contemporary play based loosely on
the life of the playwright, titled simply *Wormwood*, explores the conflict an
aging, bitter writer experiences as he struggles to write without absinthe,
finally giving in to temptation and drinking.

I provide these short biographies to suggest to readers of the HBD that they
should be careful when fooling around with stuff like wormwood.  I, too, can
get caught up in the melancholy romance of the suffering genious, and agree
that the lives of these artists make for great biographies, movies, and plays.
However, we should never forget that alcohol itself is a depressant poison.
Adding additional poisons, particularly ones linked to insanity and
hallucination, to alcoholic beverages doesn't seem like the wisest of ideas.

Eric Sarlin, homebrewer and student of literature

es76 at umail.umd.edu



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Date: Wed, 18 May 1994 08:34:02 +0000 (U)
From: George Tempel <tempel at MONMOUTH-ETDL1.ARMY.MIL>
Subject: re- headaches

                      re: headaches

in HBD #1426 jason sloan mentions:

>Correct me if I'm wrong:  Both Bud and Zima are made with rice
sugar.
>This is the only thing that I can find that correlates between 
these two products which might be giving me a headache.  The 
experience really borders on an allergic reaction so I'm curious
if rice is the culprit and if there are any other products which
I should try to avoid.

Not to set off any alarms, but back in high school some friends
and I used to call Bud "headache".  Even then we were
discriminating consumers, you might say! Also, in college,
people tended to purchase kegs of Old Milwaukee (cheap,
kegs were delivered, etc....). My knees, screwed up from
years of soccer and some wrestling, would ache just as
badly as my head---the knee problem also occurs with
too much milk consumption (lactic acid build-up in the joints).

Anyrate, no homebrew has _ever_ given me a headache, 
whether it was my own or a friends. I don't recall any
microbrews doing that either, so Jason might be on to
something here.  It _could_ be the rice, but I personally 
think it's also stuff from
part of the processing/packaging (and that lovely
taste imparted by aluminum cans!). Safe to say
i can avoid headaches and knee-aches all together
by staying w/homebrew and microbrew.


l8r...
ty (george tempel, home = netromancr at aol.com)
"kiss cats: the dachshund and the deer are one"--wallace stevens




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Date: Wed, 18 May 94 14:13:42 PST
From: Richard B Foehringer <Richard_B_Foehringer at ccm.fm.intel.com>
Subject: STAINLESS STEEL "CARBONATOR"??


Text item: Text_1

HELLO HBD,     
  A WEEK OR SO AGO SOMEONE MENTIONED THEY HAD FOUND A COMPANY THAT WAS 
MAKING A STAINLESS STEEL VERSION OF THE BALL LOCK FITTING THREADED TO 
FIT A PET 2lITER SODA BOTTLE. THEY SAID IS WAS ALSO CHEAPER THAN THE 
PLASTIC ONE SOLD AS "THE CARBONATER".
  WOULD YOU PLEASE SEND ME A CCMAIL ABOUT IT??? OUR SYSTEM DROPS THE OLD 
FILES AFTER 3 DAYS AND I LOST IT.
THANKS, DICK FOEHRINGER

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Date: 18 May 1994 15:02:06 U
From: "Mark Fredrickson" <mark_fredrickson at cpqm.saic.com>
Subject: Beer On Travel, Monterey CA

                      Subject:                              Time:  3:00 PM
  OFFICE MEMO         Beer On Travel, Monterey CA           Date:  5/18/94
Please help me out.  I will be traveling along the coast between LA and
Monterey / Pacific Grove, CA next Thanksgiving week.  Im interested in
suggestions for places not to miss: Micro's, Pubs... Food...  We'll spend
most of the week in Pacific Grove Area.  

E-Mail Please.  

TIA

Mark
Internet: mark_fredrickson at cpqm.saic.com



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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1427, 05/19/94