FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Some newbie questions (DARREN TYSON)
  Hmmm...... (Mitch Pirtle)
  Lager still fermenting (MELOTH MICHAEL S)
  Two Liter Ceramic Top Bottles (COMBESWM)
  Re: Spruce/Ginger/Herb Additives & Grape Nuts (gahaasx0)
  Fermentation Temps (perkins)
  Hand-to-mouth/infected Steam?/B-Brite Sanitizer?/Fermentability+Temp (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  Mead article/Fancy yeasts?/ideal crush/AHA conf. schedule (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  belgium ales (David Kreinheder)
  NDN:Homebrew Digest #1428 (May 20, 1994) (network_manager)
  Force carbonating (Pat Anderson)
  Mead article - help (John DeCarlo              x7116          )
  Re: Low T ale ferments (bickham)
  BrewTek Yeasties (and a recipe) (Al Folsom)
  Fridge Thermostats (Steve Hodgdon)
  Sucking siphons (S29033)
  Ayinger -- how?? (Spencer.W.Thomas)
  Maltmill vs Wheat Malt (kesicki)
  women in brewing (BTEditor)
  Beer as food, head retention, blowoff (Nancy.Renner)
  AHA conference schedule (Bob Jones)
  Re: keg pressure gauge (Jeff Nielsen/Atlanta)
  Brewpubs (alan l causey)
  maltmill throughput... (Robert F. Dougherty)
  Comments on malt mills (Allen Ford)
  digital thermometer (Bryan L. Gros)
  Growing Hops - What kind? (Annie Fetter)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Thu, 19 May 1994 13:37:53 -0600 (CST)
From: DARREN TYSON <TYSONDR at SLUVCA.SLU.EDU>
Subject: Some newbie questions

Greetings brewmeisters,

I am preparing to brew my first batch of lager and have a few 
questions to ask.  First, in Papazian's book he states that malt
syrup contains 20% H2O, so I have concluded that 1 lb of malt syrup 
is equivalent to about 13 oz of dry malt extract.  Is this correct?
Would it be better to convert recipes using SG contributions (much 
more of a pain to calculate)?

Second, I live in St. Louis, and right now the temp has been near
80 F lately.  My basement is cooler but it still stays above 70 F for 
most of the day.  Being a graduate student I don't have much money to 
spend on an expensive cooling system for fermentation.  I think a fan
would help decrease the temperature a little, but can anyone recommend
a cheap alternative to cool my primary (a 6L glass carboy).  Would it 
be better if I did my primary fermentation at work where I could put 
the carboy in a 10 F cold room?  Should I just brew in my basement,
relax, and have a homebrew?  BTW, I am planning on using a California 
lager yeast.

Also, can anyone direct me to a procedure for sporulating and drying 
yeast?  (I have access to all the necessary lab equipment at work.)

Lastly, I would appreciate suggestions as to whether a blow-off tube 
(into a bottle of bleach water) can be used throughout the entire 
fermentation process, or if it would be better to switch to an airlock 
after the fermantation slows.

I really appreciate the wealth of knowledge about the art of brewing 
that the more experienced brewers share with us newbies!  It is a 
wonderful thing to be able to communicate with hundreds (thousands?) 
of homebrewers and their respective experiences with brewing.

Long live the internet!

Darren Tyson                   tysondr at sluvca.slu.edu


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Date: Thu, 19 May 94 11:42:06 PDT
From: Mitch Pirtle <mitchp at sequent.com>
Subject: Hmmm......



	1).  Ok, to make it short - I am currently brewing a batch of
cherry stout (from "Cat's Meow II") that is acting a bit funny.  When I put
a bottle in the fridge (2 hours) the beer seems to lose all carbonation.
When I opened one at room temperature, it immediately gushed out for about
1 second, then stopped.  Without having to post a great deal of data, does
this sound like anything that can be remedied?

	2).  I became pathetically addicted to Hale's Irish (stout?), only
to discover LATER that it was a seasonal brew.  Does anyone have anything
that comes close?

	3).  I would like to try liquid yeast (pre-packaged) but so far the
opinion is "Well, every now & then you'll get a dud."  So I have been
getting yeast from the people who make Pike Place ales/stouts.  I know I
will be needing different types of yeast in the future - any advice with
brands vs. homecultures?

	Comments/flames/anything gladly accepted.  Pat, I'd like to buy a
clue.	
- -- 


Mitch Pirtle

"Old mother Hubbard went down to the cupboard
to fetch her poor doggie a bone.
On her way to the cupboard, "MY HOMEBREW'S UNCOVERED!!!"
And now Spot is looking for a new home...."

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Date: Thu, 19 May 1994 13:26:55 -0600 (MDT)
From: MELOTH MICHAEL S <meloth at spot.Colorado.EDU>
Subject: Lager still fermenting

I inadvertantly came across an ad in my local paper selling refridgerators
for $100.  When I called, it turned out they were very large ones (4.5
feet tall) and all quite new.  They were being sold by a motel that was 
remodeling all their rooms (hint, hint, for all of you looking for fridge 
bargins).

I sprung for one (and an external themostat) and brewed my first lager.

The problem?  It's been in the fridge for 2 weeks but apparently it's 
still fermenting.  At least the air lock bubbles every 30-40 seconds.

I know that the colder the environment, the longer the fermentation, but
is it a problem that it is taking so long?  I racked the wort after about
a week because so much trub settled to the bottom but stuff continues to 
settle.  Am I risking off-flavors because the wort has been sitting on 
the yeast so so long?  Will it ever stop fermenting?  Has it developed a 
life of its own?

 *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *   *   *
 Michael S. Meloth           Phone:  303-492-5204
 University of Colorado      FAX:    303-492-7090
 Campus Box 249              Internet:  meloth at spot.colorado.edu
 Boulder, CO  80309
 *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *  *


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Date: Thu, 19 May 1994 16:13:17 -0500 (EST)
From: COMBESWM <combeswm at acq.osd.mil>
Subject: Two Liter Ceramic Top Bottles

Always looking for the best way to bottle/keg my homebrew, I recently converted
to 5-liter mini-kegs, splitting my batches between  the mini-kegs and bottles,
depending on the style of beer.

Recently, a friend returned from Belgium with a two-liter ceramic top 
refillable bottle from a Belgian brew-pub (DOMUS Huisbrouwerij, Leuven,
Belgium)  The next best thing to trying the delicious micro-brewed amber ale
was admiring the bottle.

Not three days from this discovery, I found the same bottles at the Baltimore
Brewing Co. in Baltimore, MD ($6.50 fill/refill, $12 bottle deposit).

Does anyone out there know how to get these bottles without paying for a local
brew-pubs logo or travelling to Belgium?

Also, my next batch of beer is going to be the honey lager from Papazian's
KJOHB, but I'll be using maple tree sap instead of water (My parents froze some
and brought it for me from Vermont for this purpose).  Does anyone have any
suggestions or comments.

Thanx,
Bill Combes, Alexandria VA (combeswm at acq.osd.mil)



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Date: Thu, 19 May 94 14:16:32 mdt
From: gahaasx0 at ccmail.wcc.com
Subject: Re: Spruce/Ginger/Herb Additives & Grape Nuts

          I've questions for any&all that've made spiced brews using ginger, 
          spruce, herbs, etc....  & a lesser comment on GRAPE NUTS.
          
          Based on my and friends' experience with ginger brews, I have a 
          theory that not only is control of the measure (weight or volume) 
          of a spicing additive important in avoiding unwelcome excess 
          flavorings, but also the control of SURFACE AREA of that additive 
          in contact with the wort.  Can anyone provide data to test/support 
          my theory?  For all those who've made spruce beer, did you use 
          finely chopped spruce bits?  Puree?  Separate Needles off tips?  
          Whole tips? How much did you use, by weight &/or by volume?  
          Iyho, was your brew overspiced? Spiced right? Underspiced?
          
          In making the ginger brews I've enjoyed, I've cut 2oz. by weight 
          ginger roots into slices between 1/4" and  1/8 ".  Fellow ginger 
          brewers tell me they cut their 2 oz root into slices much thinner, 
          and get a less satisfactory, overly spiced brew.   
          
          I believe the thinner you slice a 2oz ginger root, the more root 
          surface area will be in contact with the wort, thereby imparting 
          more and more ginger flavor.  I'm guessing that using a potato 
          peeler to inundate the wort with several square inches (feet?) of 
          paper thin slices of ginger would result in a much stronger 
          (perhaps annoying?) ginger flavored beer.  Conversely, I guess 
          that if you don't cut the root at all, and plunk a whole 2oz root
          into the brewpot, you would get a very lightly (perhaps 
          imperceptibly?) spiced brew.  
          
          Although I've made very tasty and enjoyable brews from ginger, I 
          am looking to soon try my hand at a spruce brew using ...gasp!.. 
          liquid spruce essence.   I will go very light on the 
          spruce essence indeed based on all the discourse on spruce beer 
          a la pinesol.  If anyone has advice on collecting/cleaning/cutting 
          real spruce and or juniper berries (or tips?), that would be 
          appreciated as well....although I'm not sure of the supply of 
          fresh non-pesticide treated spruce & juniper in the Houston area.
          
          AND NOW FOR SOMETHING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT ... GRAPE NUTS.....
          
          Do y'all think we can find more information on brewing GRAPE NUTS 
          in some of the Wine digests?          BA-doom-boom-BOOM       :-)
          
          But seriously folks,  the labeling on the box states that no 
          preservatives are used, and that it is made from wheat and malted 
          barley....  could be an interesting brew.....  REAL CRUNCHY like.
          It might even be good to add a bit of dairy-derived sweeteners 
          (e.g. lactose albeit non-fermentable so I hear) in the formulation.
          Anybody have info on adding such to their brews - cereal, grain, 
          extract, or otherwise?  I've heard SAMS Wholesale Club sells Grape 
          Nuts in 4lb boxes, although I don't know for what price. 
          
          Thanks for the BW.
          Greg.

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Date: Thu, 19 May 94 17:04:39 EDT
From: perkins at zippy.ho.att.com
Subject: Fermentation Temps

Fellow HBDers--
    I have something of a newbie question.  In reading the various sources
on brewing procedures, esp. the yeast FAQ, one of the first things I
noticed was that various strains of yeast have suggested fermentation temps
(i.e., temp range for ale vs. temp range for lager) and optimum temps
(e.g., Wyeast American Ale at 68F).  I recently stuck a Fermometer(tm) on
my primary fermenter, and one of the first things I noticed was that the
ambient temp is one thing, but the temp inside the fermenter is something
else---several degrees higher.  First, let me say that it's no great
surprise to me that fermentation generates heat. 8{)  However, this raises
the question of "optimum" temp.  My assumption, now, is that it's the temp
of the fermenting wort, and not the ambient temp that I should be
monitoring if I want fermentation to occur near the optimum for the given
yeast.  Have I missed something, or am I on the right track here?

Cheers,
Mark
perkins at zippy.ho.att.com

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Date: 19 May 94 21:22:00 GMT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: Hand-to-mouth/infected Steam?/B-Brite Sanitizer?/Fermentability+Temp

Jim writes:
>Before the wort is fermented, one needs to be very careful whith anything 
>that contacts the wort.  When dealing with bacteria free still beer, the
>risks are drastically reduced.  I just hold my hand (freshly sanitized
>from cleaning too many kegs) over the end of the siphon and suck the 
>hand instead of the hose. No big deal.  

I'll bet the "freshly sanitized from cleaning too many kegs" is an important
part of this working for you.  Considering the amount of crevices in the
skin, it still sounds too risky to me.  Virtually every beginning biology
lab course, even in high school, has the same 1st experiment:  pour two
plates of nutrient agar; put a thumbprint in one; wet a Q-tip with saliva
and glom it into the other plate.  You don't have to work for a biotech giant
like AT&T to see the difference: the thumbprint plate has an order of
magnitude more growth than the saliva plate.  Just as you wrote, Jim, the
risk is considerably lower after fermentation (when sugar levels are low,
alcohol has been produced and there is little O2 for aerobes), but the risk
is non-zero whether you use your hand or mouth (or boiled/cooled water for
that matter) to start your siphon.  I just choose to minimize the risk of
infection at all points in the process and urge all brewers to do the same.
It's not that much more difficult and my time and money are in too limited
a supply to waste on infected beer.

*******
Joe writes about a foamy Steam-style beer... I'll just quote the parts key
to my thoughts:
>  The wort was aerated twice
>(half and 3/4 full) by covering the opening with sanitized plastic wrap and
>shaking until the carboy is full of foam.  The yeast was pitched at 68 degF
>and fermentation was at 54 degF for 10 days primary and 13 days secondary.

>worry.  When I bottled (3/4 cup corn sugar) the beer tasted strangely sweet
>and a bit green.  I can't think of any other flavor but strange to describe
>it, not bad but strange, and not what I expected.  After a month in the bottle
>the beer was clear and the green flavor went away the carbonation and body was
>good but the strange sweetness was still there.  Now after 4 months, the beer
>foams uncontrollably with large bubbles when poured into a glass, the body is
>a little thinner, the flavor is about the same and there is a cloudy
>precipitate that does not compact in the bottom of the bottles.  The foaming
>only occurs when the beer is poured.  Now for the $10,000 question.  
> 
>                  ????? INFECTION ?????

I suspect that the problem my be that you possibly chilled too quickly and
perhaps fermented a bit too cold.  Subsequently, the beer did not finish
completely (green beer flavor --  could it have been acetaldehyde... a green-
apple-like aroma/flavor?) and that you bottled too early.  When chilling from
68F down to 54F, you want to make sure you don't do it too quickly (I've
read 2F per day, but I think that's excessive -- I do 5F per day) or the
yeast will get shocked resulting in a slower-than-normal ferment and higher
finishing gravities.  I think that 58-62F is a better temperature range for
the primary and secondary ferment temperatures for a California Common.  There
is a chance also that it may be an infection, but the "green beer" flavor
leads me to the bottled-too-soon theory.

>One other question, is B-brite a cleaner, sanitizer, or both?  I think in
>Miller's book, he says it is a cleaner but my Homebrew store says it is a good
>sanitizer. 

It is a good sanitizer.  Both B-Brite and One Step are sanitizers, but the
proper government paperwork has not yet gone-through so they could label them
as sanitizers.  Soon.

********
John writes:
>under-modified or unmalted grains (like Oats) AND that Alpha and Beta Amylase
>enzymes work backwards to rising temperature. What I mean is that Alpha works
>on breaking large sugar chains and likes higher mash temps (158F), while Beta
>takes those shorter sugars and breaks those up into smaller more fermentable
>sugars, but likes temps of around 140 although the Mash needs to be at least
>149F for the starches to gelatinize so that the enzymes can work on them.
 
It's not so much that beta amylase "likes" 140F, it's more like beta amylase
"hates" 155F and above.  At the lower end of the saccharification range, both
amylases work together to make lots of small, fermentable sugars, where as
if you do saccharification at the high end ot the range, after a short while
most of the beta amylase is denatured, leaving only the alpha which cannot
break all the bonds on it's own.  Thus, more dextrins, less fermentability.

>So, It would SEEM that the most fermentable Mash (Oats and Protein Rest aside)
>would result from starting with a thicker mash to protect the enzymes (more
>data from Miller) at a higher temp, say 156-8F and letting that cool, ie
>un-insulated keg, over the hour to 150F or less before sparging to get the best
>fermability profile out of the mash.

Not quite.  To get the most fermentable wort, take the mash to 148F and hold
it there... adding a *little* heat if needed, or make a jacket for the mash
tun out of insulation and slip it over the tun when not heating.  To get a
very unfermentable wort, i.e. chewy, sweet beer, take the mash to 158F and
hold it there.  Note also that, just as most reactions, saccharification at 
cooler temps will take longer than at warmer temps.

Al.

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Date: 19 May 94 21:25:00 GMT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: Mead article/Fancy yeasts?/ideal crush/AHA conf. schedule

Rick asks about a Mead article.

I don't recall the article, but there was a talk given by the owner of
Havell's at the 1988 or 1987 (or was it 1986) AHA Conference.  You can
still get the conference proceedings.  Call the AHA/BP at 303-447-0816.

*****
Rick writes:
>       Why all the fancy yeast?

In my opinion, because of the wide variety in the flavor of the finished
beer that you get when you use different yeasts.  If you want more
diacetyl (butterscotch flavor/aroma) use Wyeast Irish Ale (#1084), if
you want a woody flavor, try Wyeast London Ale (#1028), if you want a
malty beer, use Wyeast European Ale (#1338) which is reported to be a
true German Alt yeast, if you want to brew something like Sierra Nevada
Pale Ale, use Wyeast American Ale (#1056)...  the list goes on and on.
Baker's yeast is cultured specifically for baking, although I've read that
acceptable beer has been made from it.  There are a number of very good
dry beer yeasts available recently (Cooper's, Red Star Ale (the new strain),
Nottingham, Windsor, others) which can make beer as good as the liquid
yeasts, but again, the beer will vary greatly with the yeast you use.

Consider a brewpub like Weinkeller (one in Berwyn, IL, one in Westmont, IL).
It is my understanding that they use only one yeast for all their ales and
another for all their lagers.  In my opinion, all their ales taste alike and
all their lagers taste alike.  Now consider brewpubs like Mishawaka B.C.
or Goose Island.  They use a variety of yeasts and thus their beers each have
their own character.

*******
Dennis writes about his modified coffee grinder crush:
>Is it a perfect crush? As good as I've ever seen. The husks are whole, and
>*most* of the malt kernels are in 4-6 pieces. There is a little flour, but
>mostly when using raw wheat and even then only about 5%. I've never had a
>stuck sparge, I think because the malt husks are whole.

The integrity of the husks is a good measure of the quality of a malt mill,
but it is incorrect to measure the quality by the amount of flour that is
produced.  There are a number of books (homebrew and professional) that have
said that excessive flour causes set mashes.  I cannot disagree more strongly.
If you dough-in improperly, flour can cause clumping and then balled starch
can later be released into the wort, but a set mash... never!  Oh, and for
those of you that insist on a reference: DeClerq.

******
Norm writes:
>Am I the only one who's had too many homebrews and can't figure out the AHA
>conference schedule?

The talks are repeated multiple times and more than one is going on during
each session, but the ad in Zymurgy is not the real "schedule" it's just
a rough listing of what's when.  When you arrive at the conference, you will
get a package which will have the complete *real* schedule and that has always
been easy to understand.

Al.

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Date: Thu, 19 May 1994 17:10:00 -0700
From: David Kreinheder <David.Kreinheder at metrokc.gov>
Subject: belgium ales

                               - - Mail - - 
         May 19, 1994          5:07pm    
   FROM: David Kreinheder                
     TO: homebrew digest                 
SUBJECT: belgium ales                    

I'm looking for an extract or partial extract recipe for a Belgium white beer 
ala Celis.  I haven't found one in the Cat's Meow.  If anyone has a good one 
please e-mail it to me.

Also, an employee at a local homebrew store told me that there was a FAQ sheet 
for Belgium ales floating around somewhere.  She didn't have an internet 
connection and she couldn't tell me where I might find it.  Its not on sierra, 
so does anyone know if this exists, or is she full of it?  Thanks.

David Kreinheder
kreinhed at mudhoney.metrokc.gov




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Date: Fri, 20 May 1994 00:48:41 PDT
From: network_manager at aldus.com
Subject: NDN:Homebrew Digest #1428 (May 20, 1994)

Your mail to the Microsoft Mail Server could not be fully
delivered!   No Valid Addresses!   It has been deleted.

Error List:
  Bad 'To:' Address: john.mostrom at MSM-Inter



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Date: Tue, 17 May 1994 21:05:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: Pat Anderson <pata at connected.com>
Subject: Force carbonating

OK, my question for the day:
 
Force carbonating...thought I was following directions. Clear
beer to the Cornelius keg.  Chilled.  Up to 30 psi, shook for 15
minutes.  Now, besides sore arms and blistered palms, I got a keg
that would dispense only foam, and foam backflowing through the
regulator...Somebody else said "40 psi and 40 shakes."  Somebody
else said attach the gas line to the liquid side, let the CO2
bubble up from the bottom...My question, is there a text file
somewhere that has the (fairly) straight dope on this?
 


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Date: Fri, 20 May 94 08:10:10 EST
From: John DeCarlo x7116 <jdecarlo at homebrew.mitre.org>
Subject: Mead article - help

>Rick Zydenbos is looking for an article on the Havell Meadery in a past
>issue of Zymurgy.

Winter 1984 (Vol 7, #4)
  New Zealand Honey Mead, by Charlie Papazian
  Leon Havill's Mazer Meads

I don't have the issue, but this is what my notes say about it.

John DeCarlo, MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA--My views are my own
Fidonet:  1:109/131  Internet:  jdecarlo at mitre.org


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Date: Fri, 20 May 1994 08:56:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: bickham at msc.cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Low T ale ferments

Dave in Sydney writes:

> Thanks to Spencer Thomas, Andy
> Donohue, Chip Hitchcock, and P Brooks.  Any errors in my summary below of
> their input are undoubtedly mine.
>
> The consensus is that ales will definitely lose some of their fruitier
> notes from fermentation at these temps., and be crisper and cleaner. 
> I.e., more lager-like and less ale-like.  Although Chip suggested that
> there should be little effect on malt and hop flavors, P Brooks'
> experiences were that the less-active ferments produced less scrubbing of
> hop aromatics, so the beers seemed more hopped than they actually were. 
> Bottom line: no ill effects, just some (subtle?) flavor differences.

This is basically true, but you need to know more about the yeast strains
to make such a broad statement.  If the temperatures are too low throughout
the entire fermentation cycle, you won't give the yeast a chance to break
down the diacetyl.  I know - I've produced copious amounts of diacetyl
with both the Wyeast Irish and European ale strins.  My dry stout became
so bad that I had to dump the last 12 bottles or so, but the alt, though
marred by diacetyl, was drinkable to the end.  If you want to use and ale
yeast, but want to reduce the esters, I recommend a diacetyl rest as some
of the lager brewers use.

Scott Bickham

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Date: Fri, 20 May 94 09:24:48 -0400
From: Al Folsom <folsom at fp.com>
Subject: BrewTek Yeasties (and a recipe) 

After quickly being convinced about the superiority of liquid yeast over
the dried version, I recently took the next step and tried culturing yeast
from a one of the strains sold by BrewTek. I used their CL-160 British
Draft Ale, and pitched it into a partial mash old ale which is now busily
perking away in the basement.  Everything went according to the directions,
with the only anomaly I noticed being that the super-wort starter was
cloudier than I expected. Aroma and yeast activity were fine, and the odor
coming from the primary airlock seems good    ;-).

Anyway, I admit to a little healthy concern (although no worry) about this
process and these yeasts. I had the whole Wyeast procedure down pat, but
this is different. Does anyone have any wisdom regarding the BrewTek
yeasts they can share?  I'm looking for comments on the various strains and
their uses, as well as storage, procedure, or other comments.

On another note, someone a week or two back was looking for an extract
based Porter recipe.  I had just bottled the following recipe, and
hesitated to give it out without aging and tasting first, but after three
weeks (still a little raw) it appears that it is quite nice, a very
middle-of-the-road porter: nice flavor, not too heavy.  Interestingly, it
is essentially a "use the leftovers" recipe.  The Northwestern Extracts were
available at a great discount from the local homebrew shop when you
purchased more than some amount, and all the rest of the ingredients were
remainders from previous batches. The name is a testimony to my current
employer, which has recently been purchased by a major competitor.

                   FISSURIN'  PORTER

        3 1/3 lb.  Northwestern Gold Extract Syrup
        3 1/3 lb.  Northwestern Amber Extract Syrup
        1     lb.  DARK brown sugar
        3/4   lb.  Crystal Malt (approx 60 deg.)
        1/2   lb.  Chocolate Malt
        9     HBU  Bittering hops.  boiled 60 minutes. I used:
                      1/2 oz 4.8% Tettnang pellets
                      1/2 oz 7.7% N. Brewer pellets
                      1/2 oz 5.8% Kent Golding pellets
        1/2   oz.  Hallertauer pellets for 10 minutes
        Wyeast #1084 Irish Ale Yeast.

        Starting S.G. 1.052 - Bottling S.G. 1.010
Enjoy,

Al Folsom

+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Al Folsom                 | Object Oriented Programming?  We've   |
| Fischer & Porter Co.      | been doing that for years...          |
| folsom at fp.com             |                                       |
| also uunet!bigmax!folsom  | When the customer objects to the way  |
| KY3T at WA3TSW (Ham)         | it works, we go program some more!    |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+


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Date: 20 May 94 08:43:00  0300
From: HODGDON at beaupre.MV.COM (Steve Hodgdon)
Subject: Fridge Thermostats

Brad Raley wrote:

>I just recently aquired a beer fridge for my garage (non-frost free) and
>I want to add a temperature control.  Has anyone used the thermostats that
>you plug the fridge into (instead of the ones where you replace the
>existing thermostat) and use a probe to determine the interior temperature?
 
I'm new to the HBD, so excuse if this topic has been discussed before, but I
stumbled across an even cheaper solution. 

I bought one of those outlet timers that people plug their lights into when
they go away on trips - the kind with a clock dial that you set to go on and
off at a specific time. The one I use lets you set the on/off mode in
half-hour increments. After experimenting with a variety of time settings, I
now can maintain a relatively stable temp of 45-48 degrees in my fridge (I
brew lagers primarily) with the device. 

My settings are ON for a half-hour every two hours (ON 30 minutes/OFF 90
minutes). Should you try this approach, your settings may change depending
on the thermostat and efficiency of your fridge, as well as your preferred
temp.
  
You should be able to find these timers for around $7-$15 at a hardware or
department store. Just make sure you get one with half-hour increments - the
common 1-hour timers don't provide enough control (I've tried it).


On another note: Does anyone have instructions for fabricating a
counter-pressure filler? 

Steve Hodgdon


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Date: 20 May 1994 09:04:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: S29033%22681 at utrcgw.utc.com
Subject: Sucking siphons

I agree with Ulick Staffords opinion (an educated one at that) on sucking
siphons.  I have been homebrewing for the past 4 years and I too use the mouth
siphon method -  I have never had a problem with it.  I think an important
thing to remember for those people that worry about 'contamination' is that as
long as the proper "infection" is started quickly (pitching yeast - 8oz or
more) there is no problem with siphoning by mouth.  Also, there are many
sources of bacteria in our homebrewing environments that may pose a threat to
those sterility mongers out there (other than mouth siphoning that is).  In the
words of Charlie P., "Relax...Don't worry.  Have a homebrew".

Lance Stronk
UTC, Sikorsky Aircraft
Stratford, CT.  

"I brew, therefore...I have a beer gut"  

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Date: Fri, 20 May 94 10:33:46 EDT
From: Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu
Subject: Ayinger -- how??

Ok, does anybody out there know how the heck Ayinger makes those
incredibly malty beers?  I don't want speculation, I want hard facts.
I can speculate as well as the rest of us.  If you've been there, or
if you have some "inside poop", please let me know.  If I get ANY
useful responses I'll summarize back to the HBD.

=S

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Date:     20 May 1994 10:54:43EST5EDT
From: kesicki at psc.psc.scarolina.edu
Subject:  Maltmill vs Wheat Malt

I have received questions from several people regarding how well my 
JS Maltmill crushes wheat malt, so I thought I would report the data 
from my first attempt at wort production from wheat.  I have the 
non-adjustable $99 version which was recommended by JS.  Here is the 
result:

Grain bill:  5 lb German wheat malt (from Heart's of Orlando, FL)
             3 lb 2-row Briess pale malt  (normal 154-146 mash with 
                                            protein rest at 122 deg)

Final Wort Volume: 5 gal exactly

Specific Gravity: 1.050 (corrected to 60 deg F, actual was 48  at 72 F)

Extraction:  31.25 pts*gal/lb grain

Bottom Line:  The non-adjustable Maltmill does indeed work for the
              german wheat malt that I used.

Other Comments:  The sparge was much faster than I had expected.  I 
use a lauter tun constucted from a plactic bucket to which has been 
fitted an easymash-type system (single copper tube with SS screen 
wrapped into a tube, the whole thing connected to the plastic 
spigot).  I *used to* use a zapap bucket-in-a-bucket but have found 
my new method a little easier.

Ed Kesicki
USC Dept of Chemistry
Columbia, SC


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Date: Fri, 20 May 94 11:14:48 EDT
From: BTEditor at aol.com
Subject: women in brewing

BrewingTechniques is currently researching a story about women and brewing
and are trying to locate professional female brewers (brewmasters, brewers,
assistance brewers, etc.). We are interested in their insights and input on
women in the brewing community; any women interested in contributing to our
research for this article are welcome to contact BrewingTechniques.  Second,
because some have expressed an interest, we may publish a list of
professional female brewers (for networking purposes) that includes name,
brewery, years of experience, and contact information. Requests for
confidentiality will be honored.

If you are or know of a professional female brewer, contact us directly by
e-mail or phone, bteditor at aol.com or 503/687-2993.

Thanks, 

Stephanie Montell
BrewingTechniques
bteditor at aol.com.


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Date: Fri, 20 May 94 11:13:16 EDT
From: Nancy.Renner at um.cc.umich.edu
Subject: Beer as food, head retention, blowoff

>From *Jeff* Renner 
 
Don Rudolph asks about beer as food.  There was an article in zymurgy two or 
three years back that said basically (paraphrasing from memory):  There are 
many wonderful reasons to drink beer, but, folklore to the contrary, 
nutrition is not one of them.  Beer contains some carbohydrates, a little of 
the B vitamins, a little protein, few minerals (not even iron in stout; 
sorry, nursing mothers), virtually no fat (one plus), and rather caloric (7 
cal/gr.) and toxic ethanol.  For nutrition, you are far better off to have a 
slice of bread.  Sorry. 
 
Rich Scotty asks about fermentation  temperatures.  From my experience, I 
would say that 66^F is not only acceptable for Am. ale yeast 1056, but 
ideal.  High enough for good rate of fermentation, low enough to minimize 
fusel production and weird off flavors.  Your insulating jacket would help 
hold in metabolic heat (yes, yeast does produce some).  Aren't basements 
wonderful?  I have two insulated corner closets in mine that max out at 66^ 
in the heat of summer and drop to 48^ in winter, perfect for lager 
fermentation. 
 
Mike Zentner asks about head retention in light beers.  Try substituting 
about 15% carapils for pale or pilsner malt.  This should help and also give 
some additional body that may be welcome in a low gravity beer. 
 
Chris Strickland asks about nasties in his blowoff tube.  I, too, like the 
blowoff method.  I start with an airlock, and as soon as I get a positive 
pressure, switch to a sanitized blowoff tube into water with a bit of 
bleach.  Should keep nasties out of the beer.  I used to put the blowoff 
tube on immediately, but once had enough negative pressure either through 
cooling and/or oxygen absorbtion that it pulled bleach water halfway up the 
1 inch tube. I pulled the end out of the water, and a bubble rose the entire 
length of the tube and pushed a few cc of bleach water into the wort.  I 
calculated that it was only a few ppb, but I got chlorophenols bad enough to 
take to the brewclub meeting as textbook example.  Five gallons feeding the 
septic system critters!  I think Miller's method really is just a variation 
on two stage fermentation.  I generally rack when fermentation slows way 
down, but sometimes haven't got around to it, and have waited a couple of 
weeks.  Not necessarily recommended, but it doesn't seem to be a problem. 
 
In yesterday's post, I added an extra "c" to the word protoscope (as in 
"protein") and got proctoscope (as in, well, you know).  And then asked for 
advice on how to use it.  Sheesh!  It must have taken restraint HBDers not 
to tell me.  Thanks. 
 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor 

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Date: Fri, 20 May 1994 08:43:17 +0900
From: bjones at novax.llnl.gov (Bob Jones)
Subject: AHA conference schedule

I haven't seen the schedule either. I do know that my talks are scheduled
for wednesday afternoon. Something like 1:30, 2:30, 3:30. Three talks back
to back. Hope this help a few of you attending the conference put the
mystery schedule together.

Bob Jones
bjones at novax.llnl.gov



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Date: 20 May 94 11:38:57 EDT
From: Jeff Nielsen/Atlanta <70273.574 at CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Re: keg pressure gauge

Hi all!

I'm a long time listener, first time caller- so I hope this works!
Regarding Dan Hall's excellent description of putting together a keg pressure
gauge (HB 1422): Foxx Equipment Company has taken all the hassle out of it.
Call them up at 800-821-2254 and ask for the homebrewer's catalog supplement.
Order item number R17D03-103, which they call a "bleeder valve." It looks to me
like they've done exactly what Dan describes, for $13.50. I have one, and it
works great!

Jeff
CompuServe 70273,574

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Date: Fri, 20 May 94 11:17:36 -0500
From: alan l causey <alc at fiona.umsmed.edu>
Subject: Brewpubs

Just a quick question...Is it true that my beloved Mississippi is the only
state in the U.S of A. to not have establishments that can brew beer on the
premises?  My significant other and my wife (happen to be the same person)
told me this "fact" that she heard from "a reliable source."

Private e-mail OK.

TIA,
BA (Big Al)
alc at fiona.umsmed.edu
Jackson, MS

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Date: Fri, 20 May 1994 09:20:20 -0700
From: wolfgang at cats.ucsc.edu (Robert F. Dougherty)
Subject: maltmill throughput...

In HOMEBREW Digest #1428, Jack quotes Jim: 

> Date: Wed, 16 Feb 1994 08:48:04 -0500 (EST)
> From: Jim Griggers <brew at devine.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM>
> Subject: Glatt malt mill
>
> I would like to get in touch with people that have bought or
> used the Glatt malt mill.  I am having trouble with grain
> feeding properly, and was wondering if this was a universal
> problem.  The first mills shipped had wide horizontal
> grooves.  Glatt changed this to a knurled pattern, which
> supposedly had a higher throughput.  When my mill was new it
> worked great, but now grain will not feed unless I apply
> pressure on the grain in the feed hopper.
>
> Jim

I have an adjustable maltmill from JSP, and I also noticed decreased
throughput.  (BTW, my mm has the groved rollers.)  I have played with
adjustments extensively and even took great pains to get the rollers
parallel again.  I believe I have isolated the problem, though.  It
seems that the rollers get a bit crusted with compacted flour and this
seems to make them more "slippery" than when they are new.  I haven't
tried it yet, but I think a wire brush (copper?) would clean up the
rollers well and allow them to suck in the grain once more.  This may be
the same problem which Jim experienced with his glatt. 

BTW, while I think product announcements are fine, and even allow that
representatives should be free to BRIEFLY defend SEVERE misinformation
about their products, Jack's post in HBD #1428 was too long and
contained too many unnecessary jabs at the competition.  What counts as
severe misinformation and brievity is a judgement call, but I for one will
surely feel free to inform "advertisers" of MY judgements when I feel
the need. 

bob


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Date: Fri, 20 May 1994 11:50:15 -0500 (CDT)
From: Allen Ford <allen at darwin.sfbr.org>
Subject: Comments on malt mills

   
Jack S. writes
 
 >>From: Allen Ford <allen at darwin.sfbr.org>
 
 >> Compared to the earlier version of the Maltmill with longitudinally-
    grooved rollers, the Glatt mill thruput and crush is superior.  
 
 > The two are not even in the same ballpark as far as throughput is  
 > concerned.  The MM puts out 300 lbs per hour and the Glatt with its 
 > plastic gears can't even be kept running that long without having to 
 > replace broken gears.
 
 > Aside from reliability, the most recent published data on the Glatt   
 > puts it at about 60 lbs per hr.
 
 > I will concede that there is probably little practical difference in the 
 > crush as that is the reason people use rollers mills but to say the 
 > Glatt is superior is not backed by any tests I know of.
 
I stand by the previous statements I made.  I compared the two mills 
side-by-side using both hand cranking and motorization to power the mills.  
Several different grains were used.  THE MALTMILL DID NOT FEED THE GRAIN 
THROUGH AS FAST AS THE GLATT MILL DID.  I JUDGED THE QUALITY OF THE 
CRUSH TO BE SUPERIOR WITH THE ADJUSTABLE GLATT MILL.  Call me 
suspicious, but I do not take anyone's (especially product 
representatives) word as gospel unless I have corroborating evidence.  In 
this limited test, THE GLATT MILL WAS SUPERIOR. 

 >> For me the major selling points of the Glatt mill were: 1)both rollers
 >> are gear driven so no slippage of a passive roller can occur,
 
 > Until one of the plastic gears breaks.
 > The unique design of the MM makes gears unnecessary.

I understand that some people have had this problem.  In fact, the 
manufacturer is quite open about the fact that the plactic gears do have 
problems at least occassionally and verbally promises to replace them any 
time they fail, regardless of whether the mill is motorized.  I HAVE HAD 
NO SUCH PROBLEMS.   
 
 >> 2)the gap between the rollers is adjustable on both ends, allowing the 
 >> rollers to remain parallel at all settings,
 
 > That is more perception than a real advantage in actual practice.
 
Agreed.  I perceive it to be an advantage and therefore it is.

 >> and 3)the price was ~$40 cheaper than it nearest competitor, the 
 >> Maltmill.
 
 > Not sure where $40 comes from but the MM sells for $99 and will do 
 > everything the Glatt will do, much faster and forever.
 
I called the homebrew supply shop at which I purchased the Glatt mill to 
be sure my figures were correct.  Indeed, I was wrong.  I paid $85 for the 
Glatt mill on a one-time good deal.  His price is now $95.  For the 
comparable Maltmill with adjustable rollers and gear drive, the shop 
owner owner quoted me a price of $180.  THIS IS A DIFFERENCE OF $85, not 
$40.  Sorry, next time I'll check my facts more carefully!   

I am not trying to convince anyone that the Maltmill is a piece of crap.  
It is not.  Neither is the Glatt mill.  Both produce crushed malt from 
which comes excellent beer.

If I understand him correctly, Jack has not compared the two products in 
side-by-side crush tests.  In fact, I believe that he stated that he has 
not even seen the Glatt mill.  I HAVE compared them and have reached my 
conclusions based on these tests, not on what someone else has told me.

I resent this forum being used to publish untested, defamatory, and/or 
misleading statements in a blatant attempt at self-promotion.  It is 
both unethical and unforgivable.     

I reiterate, I have no connection with any company selling maltmills.  My 
interest is in disseminating what I know to be accurate information and 
in correcting what I know to be erroneous information so that homebrewers 
can make informed decisions. 

Yours in the cause of great homebrew,
 
Allen

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=  Allen L. Ford  <allen at darwin.sfbr.org>  =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
=-=-= Southwest Foundation for Biomedical Research  San Antonio, Texas =-=-=


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Date: Fri, 20 May 94 10:00:35 PDT
From: bgros at sensitivity.berkeley.edu (Bryan L. Gros)
Subject: digital thermometer

Has anyone tried making the thermometer that is described in the latest
Brewing Techniques?  The circuit is described pretty well and the 
described specs sound great (very fast settling time, accurate to 0.1deg).

A friend in the local electronics shop is helping me build one of these.
He was amazed at what you can get on a chip these days, like the LED
driver.  The article did not mention the cost of the parts, unfortunately,
but it seems they can all be had for around $35.  The DigiKey catalog is
hard to find things in, but all the parts are there.

Let me know if you have tried constructing this thing and what problems
or modifications you made.

Also, I'm still looking for any recipes for an Imperial Stout that you
liked.  Or fermentation advice for such a stout.

thanks.
                               - Bryan

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Date: Fri, 20 May 1994 13:01:41 -0400
From: annie at forum.swarthmore.edu (Annie Fetter)
Subject: Growing Hops - What kind?

I just bought a house, and am working on the plantings.  I would love to=
 grow hops, not just for the brewing, but because I think they're cool to=
 look at.  While I know this has been discussed before, I couldn't find it=
 in the FAQ, and can't keep up with the digest.  Can anyone recommend a good=
 general variety to grow, and where I might get some?  I could just dig up=
 some of my dad's - he doesnt' brew with it, and doesn't have the foggiest=
 idea what kind it is or where it came from.  Would that be awful?

Please mail me if you get a chance.  I'll try to keep up with the digest for=
 the next few days, but you never know...

Thanks!

        -Annie



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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1429, 05/21/94