FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Super Wort Chiller (John Dodson)
  Trub & specific gravity (pittock)
  Hop Harvesting? (inquiry) (Jim Sims)
  Constant Stirred Tank Reactor vs. Recirculating Reactor (S29033)
  Re: Hop Aroma (Jim Busch)
  C02 + H2O chemistry question ("John L. Isenhour")
  Cloudy Hoses,  Wort Chilling (RobertS735)
  hops+boilDurations/lager/evaporation/stovetops/rubberkegs/freezerCycling/BoilSludge (Spencer.W.Thomas)
  BUDWEISER's CRAFT beer FYI ("KERRY.WILSON")
  Carbonation problems with Mini-Kegs ("Robucci, Adam F.")
  Re: Cleaning stainless steel (Dion Hollenbeck)
  bylaws (HOMEBRE973)
  Re: ordering supplies by email (Conan-the-Librarian)
  Drip-O-Later/Camping w/Keg (braddw)
  Jinxed German Pils! ("Harrington, Stephen J")
  Wet Dog Smell/taste ("Palmer.John")
  RE: Sludge in my wort (keith.prader)
  Re: Breckenridge Strawberry Wheat (4.4113 (External 1)" <calen at VNET.IBM.COM>
  Syrups ("pratte")
  Can dish it out; can't take it (Jack Baty)
  Equipment Questions (Chuck E. Mryglot)
  Recommendations Germany/Austria (SLKINSEY)
   (Barry Holman)
  Just a reminder... (Brian Klimowski)
  Mash temperatures (Richard Buckberg)
  Collected wisdom (tm) on Sparge water acidification and copper cleaning (Aidan "Krausen Kropping Kiwi" Heerdegen)
  Someone explain all the grain types (RAYMUN)
  Comparison between Wyeast's British and London ESB yeasts (Mark Peacock)
  beer at work? (!) (WIRESULTS)
  Re: Heineken & Skunks (Paul Murray)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Sun, 10 Jul 94 21:17:00 -0700
From: john.dodson at cantina.com (John Dodson)
Subject: Super Wort Chiller

The following is an article I wrote for a local homebrew club newsletter
some time ago.  The credit for refining the idea goes to Jim Richardson,
I just refined his explanation.  Maybe this technique should be dubbed
EASYCHILLER(tm)?... anyway, this could be the best excuse for buying
that 9.5 Volrath SS brewpot you've had your eye on. ;) I sure hope the
math is right... feel free to challenge it.. I have thick skin. :^)

Super Wort Chiller - Simple, Fast, No Clean Up... and Cheap!
by John Dodson

Now that I have your attention... (I find you can always get a
homebrewers attention with the word 'cheap'.) ...here is a brewing
technique I picked up while reading a computer network conference on
beer from a fellow named Jim Richardson.

The benefits of quick cooling your wort after a boil are often lost on
the beginning brewer... especially when you mention the cost ($30 to
$50) of commercially available chillers.  There are many reasons to
rapidly chill your wort, but for our purposes let's just say it can
significantly improve the quality of your brew and greatly reduce the
chances of bacterial infection.  You may never have to listen to
arguments on 'immersion' vs 'counter flow' wort chillers or learn the
best way to bend 25ft of 3/8 inch copper tubing into a coil without
crimping it!  I've used this new technique on my last 5 batches.  I'm
sold on the technique and believe it is at least the equal, if not
better, than any chiller now available to the hombrewer!

I was lucky enough to purchase a used 9.5 gallon stainless brewpot with
lid which lets me boil an entire 5 gallon batch.  Chilling 5 gallons has
always been a problem for me using an immersion chiller.  I was spending
30-40 minutes or more getting my batch to an acceptable pitching
temperature (somewhere near 80 degrees for this brewer).  By using the
following 'trashcan technique', I now bring a 5 gal batch from boiling
to 79 degrees in 15 minutes or less!  Anyway, enough of the trub...
let's get to the wort of the matter!

This technique is nothing more than using the surface area of your
brewpot to chill your wort.  It doesn't matter whether you have a
stainless brewpot or enameled steel.. both are excellent thermal
conductors.  Here is the technique:  The materials needed are an old
trashcan, three bricks, a rubber grommet and a 24" heat resistant
plastic spoon. Take the trashcan and place 3 bricks in the bottom.
Place your brewpot in the trashcan on top of the bricks.   Cut the
trashcan at 'wort level' (e.g. the level at which the wort tops your
brewpot... 13 inches in my case).  Take your brewpot out of the trashcan
and run your garden hose down the side and secure the end at the bottom
middle (use the bricks).  Presto... one Super Wort Chiller!

Turning the garden hose on about half way produces a flow of cooling
water.  After the boil the brewpot is immersed in the water-filled
trashcan.  The thermal conducting surface area of the brewpot (sides and
bottom) acts as a heat removing conduit and is equal to a coiled
immersion chiller 42 feet long! (More on this later.)  For rapid cooling,
the wort must be set in motion by stirring, because the wort itself is
the true bottleneck in the cooling process (water is a very poor
conductor).  You can stir by taking the lid off, however you risk
exposing your wort to air borne contaminents.

A minor modification to your brewpot allows stirring with the lid on!
By drilling a small hole near the center of your brewpot lid, a rubber
grommet can be inserted (or drill a hole large enough to insert a #2
drilled stopper). A 24 inch plastic stirring spoon is inserted through
the hole.  The lid can be secured with a couple of pieces of duct tape.
You now have a very powerful stirring system, sealed and sanitary.  The
rubber grommet provides a flexible fulcrum point for rapidly swirling
the wort with very little effort.  Now is the time to sit down, relax,
twirl the spoon with your fingertips and enjoy a homebrew!

There is no sanitizing, no cleanup afterward, no worrying about copper
in your beer.  It is cheaper, easier, sanitary and you water your lawn
at the same time!  Ahhh...  more beer, less work...  have a homebrew.

The bill of sale is no more than $15.  $3 for a long handled heat
resistant plastic spoon (The Cellar, stock #13-108 800-342-1871) and a
trashcan.  If you don't have an old one, Sam's has them for $12.

The thermal conducting surface area comparison (brewpot vs copper pipe)
was derived by taking the inside diameter of 3/8" copper pipe (0.311
inches) and converting to the handier lineal foot (0.311 * 3.1416 * 12 =
11.72 sq. inches per lineal foot.)  So 25 ft. of 3/8" copper pipe
provides about 2 sq. ft. of thermal conducting surface.  My brewpot (the
area exposed to hot wort) provides 3 1/2 sq. ft.!  Unless your wort
chiller coil is 42 ft long (and you just love to sanitize and clean it),
you are much better off using your brewpot!

One CAUTIONary note.  Lugging around pots of boiling wort is dangerous.
Spilling hot wort on one's front section can be inconvenient... causing
hospitalization and death!   Inspect the handles on your brewpot often
(I'd be particulary leery of low-end enameled steel pots).  If possible,
setup your chilling operation next to your boiling operation to minimize
the lugging or get a friend or spouse to help carry.  Duct tape the lid
on to minimize effects of an unexpected slosh.

Let me know if you give it a try!  Cheers!

 ...john.dodson at cantina.com

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Date: Mon, 11 Jul 1994 20:23:43 +1000
From: pittock at rsbs2.anu.edu.au
Subject: Trub & specific gravity

[I sent this a couple of days ago, but the it must of got caught in the
net!  Sorry, couldn't resist that one!  Apologies if this turns up
twice...]

>From: "Harrington, Stephen J" <sharrington at msmail4.hac.com>
>
>Up until now I have not bothered taking specific gravitity readings (hey, if
>it tastes good, who cares about the details).  This has worked fine for me.
>However, it seems now that these readings are important for me to know when
>to stop sparging and all those other high-tech things I haven't had to worry
>about up until now.
>
>I am looking for the collective wisdom of all to aid me in determining when
>the important time to take these readings is.  In light of all the recent
>comments regarding 'stealth' answers to questions, I will post a summary of
>all answers I receive private

I don't intend on answering this request, I quote it because I have been
partial mashing a little of late & Stephen's post drew my attention to a
possible flaw in my spec grav. method.  When I did the last partial there
was a large amount of cold break material, so much so that when I took the
sample for spec grav. I was CERTAIN that this will give a false reading due
to all that crap floating around.

Do I take a larger sample and let it settle, then take the reading from the
supernatant?

What about pitching the yeast, waiting for the majority of the trub to
settle (and risk the yeast making a difference), & then measure?

I _know_ it's being finnicky, but does trub make a significant difference?

Awaiting wisdom...
  \\|//  . o         ____________        Chris Pittock 06)2495099
 o-O O-o     O      ( Yeast, hop )        pittock at rsbs0.anu.edu.au
  | U |        ()  ( & charity... )       PO Box 475 Canberra City
  { - }             (____________)        ACT 2601  Australia.
   /|\


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Date: Mon, 11 Jul 94 08:46:46 EDT
From: sims at scra.org (Jim Sims)
Subject: Hop Harvesting? (inquiry)

 How can I tell when my hop cones are ready to harvest? The Cascade
bines have reached about 20' and put on fuzzy flowers a week or two
ago that are now nice yummy-looking hop cones. 

 The Tett and Mt Hood havent done much yet..... :-(

jim

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Date: 11 Jul 1994 09:32:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: S29033%22681 at utrcgw.utc.com
Subject: Constant Stirred Tank Reactor vs. Recirculating Reactor

Brews at delphi.com writes:

>THE USE OF A CSTR (CONSTANT STIRRED TANK REACTOR) IS WELL KNOWN IN THE
>PROCESS INDUSTRIES AS THE BEST WAY TO OPTIMIZE REACTION CHEMISTRY. THE BIG
>FELLAS ALL USE EM AND ALL THE FERMENTATION BROTH REACTORS SOLD TO THE BIOMED
>INDUSTRY DO TOO, SO WHY NOT HERE AT HOME.

I am not an expert in the field of process control but, I will share with other
readers what I have found in the text books.  Maybe it is possible to get some
of the chemical engineers on the net to shed some 'authoritative' light on the
subject.  I was looking at building a RIMS (recirculating infusion mashing
system) and I wanted to be confident that I wasn't wasting my time trying to
increase my yield and at the same time make it 'easier' to control the
temperature for mashing.  A couple of years earlier I took a graduate class in
process control at Yale.  The professor, Bela Liptak, and author of the text,
Optimization of Unit Operations, is very knowledgable in the field of process
control.  I could be misinterpreting the information but, his book says that
the recirculating type of chemical reactor is more efficient than the constant
stirred tank reactor.  I don't know if this applies to all chemical reactions
including the enzymatic reaction of starch - sugar conversion.  I think that
the recirculating method that is talked about is not just recirculation of the
liquid wort (in the case of brewing).  It might be the recirculation of a
'slurry' (wort + grain).  One thing is certain from the text; CSTR does NOT
give the highest % yield.  Any CE out there like to elaborate further?

Lance Stronk, Sikorsky Aircraft
Stratford, CT.

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Date: Mon, 11 Jul 1994 10:03:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: Re: Hop Aroma


Al writes:
> In my experience, the primary flavor contribution is in the 10-20 min range.
> Boiling hops longer than 20 minutes seems to make them contribute virtually
> no flavor.  Also, I'm curious as to the meaning of back aroma and front
> aroma.  Again, in my experience, I've found little aroma is imparted from
> hops boiled any longer than 5 minutes.  

If the latter statement were true, most Bavarian Pils would have no
hop nose!  Many German and quality US micros use aroma hops 
at 15 minutes prior to knockout in a Pils beer.  I have had several 
experiments in this area where hops such as Liberty used in this manner
result in immense spicey aromatics and flavor. And these beers often
sit in a whirlpool for another 30 min after knockout.  I also feel 
that significant flavor contributions can result from a 30 minute 
hop addition.

Good brewing,
Jim Busch

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Date: Mon, 11 Jul 1994 09:13:19 CST
From: "John L. Isenhour" <isenhour at lambic.fnal.gov>
Subject: C02 + H2O chemistry question

I was having a discussion with a biochemist recently and they told me
something I dont understand.  They said that when CO2 is dissolved in
water it becomes bicarbonate, will make the PH of the water more basic
and this can be removed by boiling (it will precipitate) and is a
buffer.   My (limited) understanding was that dissolved CO2 becomes
carbonic acid.  I was told that it became bicarbonate when it was
dissolved and was carbonic acid when not (?).  This conflicted with
what I understood so I then injected some CO2 into carbon filtered
water and the PH became more acidic.  Then I got to see chemical
drawings of bicarbonates and how they were buffers and was told that
the chemical reactions were quite complex.  I get the feeling the
person is familiar with blood gas exchange which might be quite
different from CO2 and water.  Can someone explain what the case
really is?

tnx!
john

john at hopduvel.chi.il.us

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Date: Mon, 11 Jul 94 10:23:05 EDT
From: RobertS735 at aol.com
Subject: Cloudy Hoses,  Wort Chilling

David Rodger writes to ask about hoses, cloudy and otherwise.. and we have
seen several good replies- but one more comment for David- you can use the
coludy hoses as they are (after sanitizing), but if you want them clear
again- bake them inside a brown paper sack, (grocery sack) at about 200F. for
20 minutes or so. This will drive out the moisture and the cloudyness as
well. The hose will be clear again- and sanitary-  leave it in the bag till
you need it...

As for yet another way to chill hot wort- I have a variation not yet
mentioned... I take the still hot wort (in the cooking pot) to my swimming
pool where it will rest on the first step nicely submerged down to the level
of the liquitd--- Lid is ON the pot at this point. I weight down the pot with
something to keep it from drifting away- the pool jet blows "cool" water
right on the pot- and in about 20 minutes- I have wort ready to add to my
fermenter... I use the chill-down time to clean-up so the time is not a
waste- no water down the drain, and no ice required either! 

And a final question... We all acknowledge that liquid yeast cultures yield
superior results- but if I take dry yeast- re-liquify by the normal methods-
then make a decent starter of healthy wort- and culture-up a nice yeasty
sludge is this, somehow less "good" than starting with a liquid yeast? and if
so- why?

Bob Stovall
RobertS735 at aol.com




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Date: Mon, 11 Jul 94 10:56:37 EDT
From: Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu
Subject: hops+boilDurations/lager/evaporation/stovetops/rubberkegs/freezerCycling/BoilSludge

Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583 writes:
 >   The traditional
 > way to do a lager is to make a big (2 liter or larger) starter in the 70's,
 > let it ferment out, slowly cool the starter into the mid 50's, pour off the
 > spent wort, cool your main wort to the same temperature, pitch the yeast.

Actually, it's better to grow the starter cold.  Some strains, such as
the "Munich" strain, won't ferment well at a temperature different
from the one they were grown at.

 > This will take longer to start than the "shortcut" way, 

The fastest lager start I ever had used this techinque.  It was
blowing off through the airlock (I hadn't expected blowoff from a
lager!) in 12 hours.

=S

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Date: 11 Jul 1994 08:16:08 PST
From: "KERRY.WILSON" <HWCEMC2.KWILSON at HW1.CAHWNET.GOV>
Subject: BUDWEISER's CRAFT beer FYI


Date: Monday, 11 July 1994 08:16 PT
To: hw1smtp.homebre1 at hw1ssw1.snads
From: KERRY.WILSON at HWCEMC2
Subject: BUDWEISER's CRAFT beer FYI


I recently attended a charity event where lots of the local food and
beverage folks come and give you food and drink while you watch the
animals at the ZOO.


An interesting beer provider was ELK MOUNTAIN (Something).  It was billed
as a craft brew and was served from a Budweiser truck.  I over heard
conversations that is was made in Budweiser's Fairfield, CA  plant and was
only available in draft for now. I have seen the "TAP" handle in one up
scale restaurant in Sacramento.   It looks like Budweiser is working all
angles.


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Date: Mon, 11 Jul 94 11:59:00 PDT
From: "Robucci, Adam F." <robuccad at dsoeng.sch.ge.com>
Subject: Carbonation problems with Mini-Kegs


I got one of those Dinkelaker/Grolsh style mini-keg systems a couple of 
months ago and I am yet to get it to work well. I bought the nice metal tap 
as opposed to the cheaper plastic one. The problem I am having is that all I 
ever seem to get out of the keg is a glass 1/2 - 3/4 full of foam. When I 
bought the system I picked up a keg of Grolsh and it poured foam. I then 
tried it with homebrew. I made an ale,  primed with 1/3 cup corn sugar. 
Foam. I made a lager,  primed with 1/3 cup corn sugar. Foam. The guys at the 
supply store told me that I was probably over carbonating. That 1/3 cup is 
for 5 full gallons of beer, not the 4+ gallons left at kegging time. They 
said that I should reduce the corn sugar in the same proportions of 1/3 cup 
per 5 gals for  that amount of beer I have  left.
My question is has anyone had similar problems with these systems?
Does anybody have any advice they would like to offer.

Thanks
Adam Robucci
robuccad at dsoeng.sch.ge.com    

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Date: Mon, 11 Jul 94 09:03:35 PDT
From: hollen at megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck)
Subject: Re: Cleaning stainless steel

>>>>> "m" == m bryson2 <m.bryson2 at genie.geis.com> writes:

m>    Responding to Tad Deshler about the burnt stainless steel
m> kettle:
m>    A strong basic solution, such as potassium hydroxide is
m> what we use at work. At home, I use a mixture of bleach and
m> water. If you're willing to wait a couple of days( depending
m> on how badly you burnt the kettle), it should all dissolve
m> away. If it's only hte bottom of the kettle, it shouldn't take
m> too much bleach. Good luck.

Why not just use oven cleaner.  This will not harm stainless steel at
all.  I use it for all kinds of burnt on things including cleaning
table saw blades and carbide router bits.  It is specifically made for
eating burnt on stuff and not harming metal.  Warning, don't dare try
this on any aluminum, since it is caustic, it will eat aluminum faster
than you can imagine.

Dion Hollenbeck (619)675-4000x2814     Email: hollen at megatek.com
Staff Software Engineer     Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California

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Date: Mon, 11 Jul 94 12:55:16 EDT
From: HOMEBRE973 at aol.com
Subject: bylaws

I am reposting this because all I got were requests from other people who
wanted the information.  So any club members or officers have by-laws for
their club they could pass along?
TIA,
Andy Kligerman


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Date: Mon, 11 Jul 1994 10:00:20 -0700
From: pascal at netcom.com (Conan-the-Librarian)
Subject: Re: ordering supplies by email


"Date: Sat, 9 Jul 1994 00:27:15 -0400 (EDT)
 From: "F. G. Patterson Jr." <patterso at mason1.gmu.edu>
 Subject: ordering supplies by email

"I would love to have knowledge of a brewing supply store with an 
 internet-accessible address that takes orders by email."


( Note : I am not advocating use of the Internet for commercial purposes.
  I, myself, have no vested interest in either side of the question, other
  than aesthetic concerns over the consequence of commercializing the Net,
  which is not what this post is about ... :-)


I would not accept orders for merchandise via email any more than I
would over the phone. How would you verify the source ? Are you equipped
to pursue deadbeats across state lines ? Does email constitute a signed
contract ? I don't think so.

I would not give my credit card and other information via email any
more than I would over the phone. Who knows who's reading it ? Is it
printed out ? How are the printouts disposed of ?

As always, the equation of 'convenience' versus 'security' raises its
ugly head. Be advised, and act accordingly, be you producer or consumer.

Personally, I think either submitting _or_ accepting orders from people
one doesn't know well, over email, is a disaster waiting to happen, and
an invitation for some expensive practical jokes, as well. ( "Wow, honey,
I got an order for 10000 pounds of pre-cracked six-row from a professor
at MIT, today, to be shipped first class, via the email ... we can buy
that house, now !! Let's sign the papers in the morning !!" )

( Sometimes I think the criminal class are nothing more than parasitical
  entities which serve a very useful purpose ... taxing stupidity. )


- -- richard

                 Law : The science of assigning responsibility.
              Politics : The art of _distributing_ responsibility.

   richard childers        san francisco, california        pascal at netcom.com

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Date: Mon Jul 11 13:04:29 1994
From: braddw at rounder.rounder.com
Subject: Drip-O-Later/Camping w/Keg

Yesterday I came across what I thought to be a bargain. For $5 at the
Salvation Army I bought a 48 quart cafeteria style coffee urn.  In my
haste I thought "there must be a use for this thing", then I got it home
and realized it was made of, yes, aluminum.  It holds about 2.25 gals of
water at 150-154 Deg F on high and around 120 Deg F on the low setting. 
Can anyone suggest a use for this thing other than just getting all my
friends totally wired? :-)

Also, I'm going camping this weekend and I want to take along a keg of my
pale ale. Is it safe to be storing my CO2 tank in a black truck in the
heat of summer? Of course it'll come out at night. What about the beer? I
could keep it on ice in the truck but who knows how long that will last.

TIA for any replies. BTW, any brewers going to the WINTERHAWK Bluegrass
Fest. this weekend? 

Bradd Wheeler.
   
   **** ---- "There's always time for a Homebrew!" ----  ****
  C|~~| ----------------------------------------------- C|~~|
   `--'  --------------braddw at rounder.com-------------   `--'
          -------------------------------------------



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Date: 11 Jul 1994 10:30:17 -0800
From: "Harrington, Stephen J" <sharrington at msmail4.hac.com>
Subject: Jinxed German Pils!

I made a German Pils using Wyeast Danish.  It started slow (2 day lag).  I
guess I made too small of a starter (... live and learn ...) but it
eventually got going.  I let it ferment for a about 5 days then racked it to
the secondary.  I topped it up to 5 gals with preboiled water at the same
temp (48#161#F).  Now it seems totally dead!  I find it hard to believe it has
finished (no I have taken an SG reading yet  -  I try to touch the stuff as
little as possible).  I have set the frig up to 60#161#F this AM in hopes of
getting things going again.  My real fear is that since lager yeast is bottom
fermenting that I racked it off of all the yeast and poured the yeast down
the drain.  But then I got to thinking, wouldn't that also be a problem when
I rack it to bottle?  All I know is that eventhough I have made a couple of
nice lagers in the past, I have yet to make a successful Pils.  Any advice
would be greatly appreciated.  ( I am at work and cannot have a homebrew to
relax).


Stephen Harrington

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Date: 11 Jul 1994 10:16:04 U
From: "Palmer.John" <palmer at ssdgwy.mdc.com>
Subject: Wet Dog Smell/taste

Hi Group,
I am trying to diagnose a beginners brews. He works with my wife and
communication with him is second hand. The beers are made from kits, I don't
know whose, but I believe the styles were Pale Ales. I have tasted both
batches, and my insightful comment was, "Eyahh, What the hell is that?"  As the
subject says, the overpowering charactoristic was a Wet Dog smell and an
astringent, bitter, back of the mouth, and yet overall Thin taste. I really
don't know quite what to make of it. Color was a nice red amber. Clarity was
good/great. Head was thin.

The only info I have on his brewing practice (other than he used my How-To
document) is that his apartment is un-air conditioned, he was on vacation for a
week during a heat wave when indoor temps probably hit in the 90s and he has a
cat. I know I am annoyed at the lack of info to conjecture from, but maybe one
of you can support my thought that the flavor is due to high temperature. Has
anyone come across this flavor profile before? Could this be a Fusel Alcohol
and phenolics problem?
Thanks,
John Palmer 
MDA-SSD M&P palmer at ssdgwy.mdc.com  

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Date: 11 Jul 94 11:05:53 -0800
From: keith.prader at wtgw.worldtalk.com
Subject: RE: Sludge in my wort


Jeff Donnelly asked about hop pellet sludge:

OK so it's not sludge but it looks like it.  Here's my problem:
After I'm done boiling my extract based wort for about an hour, I filter
the wort into the fermenter.  Since I started using my new funnel with 
the built in filter, it clogs 9 or 10 times per 5 gallon batch. 
 .....
Do I need a no filter, a different filter, or a prefilter?
Any other clues or suggestions.
 
I use 2 kitchen hand held strainers as pre filters.  I use a large mesh 
strainer on transfering the wort from the pot to a pitcher.  I
 pour the pitchered wort through a fine hand held screen strainer and 
this catches most of the hop pellet residue.  I still have the micro 
screen in my funnel with catches the rest of the finer bits.  I 
do rinse the fine strainer after each pitcher to keep it from 
clogging, but it is much easier than rinsing the funnel screen 
(which only needs to be rinsed 2 or 3 times).  I usually use whole
 hops which are much easier to manage and have less sludge 
involved.

Keith
 


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Date: Mon, 11 Jul 94 16:35:05 EDT
From: "John R. Calen (4.4113 (External 1)" <calen at VNET.IBM.COM>
Subject: Re: Breckenridge Strawberry Wheat

On the AHA tour of the Breckenridge Brewpub, I asked the brewmaster (Sorry,
his name isn't handy) how many strawberries were used to make the brew. The
question was phrased partly to see if strawberry *extract* was used.

His reply was something like, "We used n pounds of the finest Colorado
strawberries to make it. Probably could have used *double* that." (Emphasis
is mine.)

The point is simply that even the brewer feels that the stawberries are way
too subtle. More importantly, they're likely to alter the recipe the next time
it's made.

Regards,
John Calen

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Date:          Mon, 11 Jul 1994 15:42:57 EST
From: "pratte" <PRATTE at GG.csc.peachnet.edu>
Subject:       Syrups

In today's HBD, Victor Franklin takes me to task for using fruit 
syrups to flavor beer, claiming that they give an artificial flavor 
that he can detect.  In response, I would like to say, "Victor, 
read what I wrote a little more carefully".  If you do, you'll see 
that the syrups that I mentioned are pure fruit juice with a small 
amount of corn or cane sugar.  They have no artificial additives at 
all.  Can you find such syrups at the store?  Yes, but you do have to 
read the labels.  Does the beer taste different when using the syrup? 
I've made batches with fresh blueberries and with syrup and have not 
been able to tell the difference between them.

In response to some other questions I've received, I add the syrup 
right after the boil, allowing the beer to ferment with the syrup in 
place.  So far, I've had no problems doing it this way.

John Pratte

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Date: Mon, 11 Jul 1994 14:53:43 -0500 (CDT)
From: jack at wubios.wustl.edu (Jack Baty)
Subject: Can dish it out; can't take it

   Given Anheuser-Busch's radio advertisement making fun of homebrewers one
   might think they had a sense of humor, but if they do it's
   unidirectional.  For the last five years or more they have been pursuing
   a law suit against a small-time St.Louis humor magazine that printed a
   parody of a Bud Dry ad.  After an oil spill on a river caused AB to stop
   drawing river water as a precaution the magazine _Snickers_ printed a
   fake ad saying something like "Bud Dry-- One taste and you'll drink it
   oily." AB lost in one court and recently won an appeal with the help
   of an AB-commissioned study that showed that some percentage of people
   shown the ad thought that it meant Budweiser had oil in it.
- -- 
Jack Baty  jack at wubios.wustl.edu
Division of Biostatistics   Washington University Medical School   St. Louis
If you don't think too good then don't think too much.

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Date: Mon, 11 Jul 94 15:57:52 EDT
From: cem at cadre.com (Chuck E. Mryglot)
Subject: Equipment Questions

 Hi brewfolk... I have a few questions that someone may be able to help 
                out with.
 
    1.  I'd like to build a vented hood for my boiler. I was thinking of 
        using an old bathroom vent fan as a basis of the design.  I have 
        no idea if it will have  enough capacity to vent satisfactorily.   
        Anyone out there done this already or have some advice.

    2.  I mash in a picnic cooler with a slotted pipe manifold. My yields
        are always just shy of 25 pts/lb/gal.  I was thinking of changing 
        from a manifold to an Easymasher type of drain in order to improve
        on yield.
 
             - Does anyone get better yields than I do using this sort 
               manifold of arrangement?
             - Will switching to an Easymasher type of device help?
 
         Thanks in advance...
 
         ChuckM



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Date: Mon, 11 Jul 94 16:14:05 EDT
From: SLKINSEY at aol.com
Subject: Recommendations Germany/Austria

I am leaving for Nuremburg (Germany), Graz (Austria) and Vienna in a few
days.  I am looking for any and all beer-related places to check out (great
beer gardens, etc.) or any other places y'all think I shouldn't miss. 

 Please send e-mail to.

Samuel Lloyd Kinsey                     slkinsey at aol.com


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Date:        Mon, 11 Jul 94 17:03:16 EDT
From: Barry Holman <BHOLMAN at NMU.EDU>
Subject: 

unscribe

bholman at nmu.edu

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Date: Mon, 11 Jul 1994 15:11:02 -0700
From: brian at air.atmo.arizona.edu (Brian Klimowski)
Subject: Just a reminder...


For those of you who use small-diameter blow-off tubes during your
primary fermentation, remember to keep a close eye on the output from
the tube to check for clogging.  Half of my last batch of Pale Ale
ended up on my bathroom ceiling last night when my rubber stopper
blew out of my carboy.  I feel lucky not to have been injured by
the explosion, as the carboy itself could have blown during one
of many times I was hovering over it examining the early fermentation.
On a lighter note, this event was the highlight of my 2 year old's
life...she hasnt stopped talking and dragging my wife and I into
her bathroom to show us where "Daddy's beer was _everywhere_!!!".

Brian
 .\

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Date: Mon, 11 Jul 1994 16:58:37 -0700
From: Richard Buckberg <buck at well.sf.ca.us>
Subject: Mash temperatures


A question for the wise ones:

This past weekend I brewed 2 batches of ale, all-grain.  In both instances,
I was distracted during the stovetop mashing, and the mash temperatures
soared, perhaps as high as 190-200 F.  What will this do to the brews?  What
can I expect as a result?  

Both batches were primarily British pale, one with flaked maize, another
with small amounts of 40L and 80L.  Sparge, boil, and fermentation all seem
fine and in order.

Thanks most kindly!

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Date: Tue, 12 Jul 94 10:51:28 EST
From: Aidan "Krausen Kropping Kiwi" Heerdegen <aidan at rschp2.anu.edu.au>
Subject: Collected wisdom (tm) on Sparge water acidification and copper cleaning
Full-Name: Aidan "Krausen Kropping Kiwi" Heerdegen

This is a bona fide HBD Summary (tm) of the responses I got to my 
post in HBD #1472 regarding cleaning my copper boiler and 
acidfying sparge water.  

On cleaning copper boiler:
- -------------------------

Fill the tub with water, acidify as if it was sparge water and 
boil that sucker - seems reasonable to me.  

Others suggested soe elbow grease ..  yeah yeah ...  I was sorta 
trying to avoid that!  :-)

Acidifying Sparge Water:
- -----------------------

1/ Boil for half an hour, seems some peoples water chemistry 
means if you boil your water for long enough it become acidic.  I 
will have to see if that works for me.  

2/ Food grade phosphoric acid.  Seems to be the chemical of 
choice.  Ulick pointed out that it is used in many foodstuffs and 
is a yeast nutrient as well (bonus!).  

I understood that the mash starts out acidic but gets less acidic 
as you wash it through with sparge water, leading to tannin 
extraction etc, so if the sparge water is acidic, this tannin 
extraction will not occur.  Right?  (I will interpret silence as 
affirmation) 

Thank-ee very much

Aidan

- --
Aidan Heerdegen				

e-mail: aidan at rschp2.anu.edu.au

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Date: Mon, 11 Jul 1994 20:51:54 -0400 (EDT)
From: RAYMUN at delphi.com
Subject: Someone explain all the grain types

Can some explain to me what is the difference between all the grains
out there in brew world.
 
Like for example:
 
What is the difference between malts from the USA, Belgium, Germany
or England?
And what types of beers should use what type of grain?
 
Who's crystal's are better? USA/Belgium/Germany/England
 
How and why is Munich Malt, Dextrin, and Cara-pils used?
 
Whats dextrin malt and why is it used?
 
I have read Papazians and Millers Books.  But they fail to go
into why one countries grains are better than others.
 
What makes a Lager Malt different from another malt type?
 
Also please feel free to throw any opinions you might have regarding
this inquirery!
 
Thanx in advance to all that reply!
Raymun at delphi.com
 
P.S. You might want to post your replies to HBD because I'm sure
there are other beginners out there such as I cannot be the only
one around! <G>

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Date: Mon, 11 Jul 1994 22:58:39 -400 (EDT)
From: Mark Peacock <mpeacock at oeonline.com>
Subject: Comparison between Wyeast's British and London ESB yeasts

This past Saturday, I whipped up a quick Pale Ale batch (90% light malt 
extract/10% British crystal and about 40 IBU's of Fuggles) to test the 
difference between Wyeast's British and London ESB yeasts.  The batch 
cooked out to an OG of 1.054.  I then split the batch between two 
carboys, pitched the starters I had made the night before and let 'em go.

And go they did.  I pitched the yeast at about 2:00pm on Saturday and 
both carboys were chugging away by 5:00pm.  The British was bubbling at a 
greater rate than the ESB.

24 hours later (Sunday pm), the British was still going, but the ESB had
stopped.  I lifted up the covers on the carboys to notice that the ESB had
almost completely floc'd out while the British was still in solution.  I
swirled the ESB carboy to re-sol the yeast. 

Another 24 hours (Monday pm) and the British was still burping, albeit 
much more slowly.  The ESB showed no signs of life.  Since I have to go 
out of town tomorrow, I decided to rack them to secondary.  I also 
thought that this might wake up the ESB.  Taking SG's during the racking, 
the ESB SG is 1.022 (58% attenuation) while the British SG is 1.014 (75% 
attenuation).

More news as developments warrant.

Mark Peacock
Birmingham, MI

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Date: Mon, 11 Jul 94 22:35:26 -0500
From: WIRESULTS at WINET.mste.org
Subject: beer at work? (!)


> My recommendation is that you contact the BATF (Bureau of Alcohol, Tobbaco
> and Firearms) and ask them how to register in order to pay the required tax
> on the beer that is brewed at the company. The tax is only $7 per barrel on
> the first 60,000 barrels. On 200 gallons, that would be about $45. There may
> be a minimum or an annual fee or something, I don't know.

Does the term Padora's Box Mean anything to you? Yes there is a $500/year
special occupational tax plus a $2000 Bond plus reams of paperwork including
8 1/2 X 10 color glossy pictures with circles and arrows and a paragraph on
the back of each one, describing the south view, the north view, the building
layout and let's not forget a disertation on how you are going to make sure
that untaxed beer will not possibly get mixed up with txaed beer. Oh and
don't forget to write about how to dispose of unused beer (depends on
if tax piad or not) and the *detailed* records of materials movement..... You
get the picture. Now add the state requirements and you're all set. Oh,
you shouldn't forget about the local ones either. Here in Wisconsin you
would have to be licenced as a brewer, a wholesaler and a retailer at about
$500 each per year plus the other grief....


Best to hold an analysis party...

rjl
wiresults at winet.mste.org




Best to hold an 

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Date: Tue, 12 Jul 1994 15:32:50 +1000 (EST)
From: Paul Murray <pmurray at lingua.cltr.uq.oz.au>
Subject: Re: Heineken & Skunks

I don't want to revive the "zoolgical zymurgy" thread by suggesting that
Heineken make their beer with skunks :-) but in reply to the theories
about the skunkiness of Heineken, go to Europe and drink a Heineken (it
doesn't taste skunky).  Go to the U.S. (I would imagine) or Australia (as
I have done), and you will find that La Belle Strasbourg (from Fisher),
Young's Ram Rod, and even Pilsner Urquell sometimes taste of skunk.  The
orthodox explanation is that beer becomes light struck and the isohumulone
(from the hop oils) breaks down into mercaptans & fusel alcohol causing
the skunk flavour.  Somebody out there should be able to correct this as
I'm sure it's only half right.  What puzzles me is that my regular beer
shop keeps it's imports in a display fridge which they insist contains
special fluros which do not emit u/v and therefore do not affect the
isohumulone and ought not therefore affect the beer.  Yet the first couple
of Urquell's I bought from them were superb, but the more recent ones were
beginning to taste like nasty imports (I don't know what skunks smell
like!).  So given that they are right about the fluros, given that the
later bottles are from the same case, why does this happen? If somebody
knowledgeable out there can explain this I would be very grateful.  I'm
sure the answer would be of general interest and warrant a posting - we
all want to avoid our own beers suffering this fate & presumably we all
want to be able to taste imported beers at their best if we are to learn
how particular styles are supposed to taste.  But private e-mail is fine,
I'll post a summary. 
Paul Murray <pmurray at lingua.cltr.uq.oz.au>


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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1473, 07/12/94