FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Micro Breweries (FRAN)
  Brewpubs/Micros in the Tucson AZ area ("THOMAS L. STOLFI")
  Mills/Zymurgy ("William F. Cook")
  Raspberry Wheat Recipe (Dodger Posey)
  Richmond, Charlotte Brewpubs? (R. Keith Frank, DCR&D, 409-238-9880)
  Re:  Fermenting in Soda Kegs ("Stephen Lovett")
  Keg Sanitation Slander! (Aidan "Krazy Krausen Kropping Kiwi" Heerdegen)
  Sam Adams and EDME yeast/aluminum->Alzheimer's/Jim Koch bashing (DARREN TYSON)
  brewpubs in Camarillo, Calif area (Dan Lissick djlissick at mmm.com) (djlissick)
  Brewing Belgian Beers (#5): Strong Ales ("Phillip Seitz")
  ATTENTION HUMAN (haltstei)
  Priming with DME (Delta One-Niner)
  Re: Comments on keg fermenting (Dion Hollenbeck)
  Re: Keg Fermenting (Dion Hollenbeck)
  Re: Crushing wheat (Jim Busch)
  Keg lauter tuns (brewing chemist Mitch)
  Christmas Brews (Ed Blonski)
  Stein lids revisited (HEWITT)
  Phil lauter thing (M. Murphy)
  Mashing Equipment (Larry Bristol)
  Re:Going to Germany... (Jason Goldman)
  Re: Keg Fermenting (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)



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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Tue, 16 Aug 1994 08:21:02 -0700
From: Richard B. Webb <rbw1271 at appenine.ca.boeing.com>

Subject: The beginners guide to advanced and all-grain brewing

Yet another installment of

The beginners guide to advanced and all-grain brewing
By Richard B. Webb, the Brews Brother's 1993 Homebrewer of the year

part 9

4.1.     Early Additions

Early hop additions make more bitterness 
than later additions. Using more hops 
makes for more bitterness than using fewer 
hops. And using more bitter hops makes for 
more bitterness than less bitter hops. Hopefully 
this is obvious to you. What you may not 
know is that winding up with 6 gallons of 
wort leaves your beer almost 17% less bitter 
than you would have if you gotten the 5 
gallons that you planned for. (This is also true of 
the color of the beer, but that's not 
my concern here.) This just goes to show how 
important it is to not only accurately design 
your beer, but also how important it is to 
keep to that plan.

4.2.     Late Additions

Hops that are added late to the boil do not 
complete the chemical changes necessary 
to extract all of the hop resins available 
to the kettle. Instead, the essential oils that are 
boiled away in long boils remain to contribute 
to hop flavor and aroma. Some hops are 
well known for their superior taste and 
aroma, while others are more suitable for long 
boil bittering. Try to match the hops to the 
style that you're trying to create.

5.     Yeast

5.1.     Ale Yeast

Ale yeasts are happiest at or near 
room temperature. Fermentation temperatures 
below 55 degrees Fahrenheit will pretty much 
shut down most ale yeast strains. 
Temperatures higher than 70 degrees for any 
yeast will encourage alcohols with higher 
molecular weight which will affect the 
taste of your beer. These alcohols will also 
increase the severity of your hangover if you 
over-indulge. There are some styles which 
benefit from these alcohols, and are 
therefore more suitable for warm weather brewing. 
These styles include: Barley wines/strong ales, 
Belgian ales (including Lambic, Gueuze, 
and Trappist ales), Imperial Stouts, Strong 
Porter, Brown ales, and some fruit beers. 
Wyeast #1056, the Chico/American ale yeast 
is a low producer of off flavors at higher 
temperatures, so can be used where other 
yeast strains cannot.

5.2.     Lager Yeast

The Wyeast lager yeast varieties have a 
reputation for not finishing their kraeusen 
very quickly. What is true is that successive 
generations of yeast will become better 
adapted to the environment in which they 
are raised. Saving your yeast can be a good 
way to save money and keep the best 
characteristics of the yeast that you want.

As is the case whenever you go about dealing 
with yeast, sterilization must be a way 
of life. To wash the yeast, you must have 
on hand some very cool pre-boiled water. 
(Whenever I boil bottle caps prior to bottling, 
I always save the water, cooling it before I 
need to wash yeast.) After siphoning the 
fermented wort to either a conditioning 
container or secondary fermentation container, 
pour some of the sediment from the 
bottom of the carboy into a sterile jar 
with a lid. Pour enough of the cool water into the 
jar to thoroughly dilute the sediment. Secure the 
lid on the jar, swirl the contents of the 
jar thoroughly, and place in the refrigerator 
until you are ready to deal with it again 
(typically after bottling). The heavier 
particles of sediment, such as hop bits and 
coagulated protein, will settle to the 
bottom of the jar, while the lighter yeast bits will 
remain suspended in the water. I pour this 
water into a clean bottle and cap it, storing 
the yeast in the refrigerator. To re-use this 
yeast, allow the bottle to warm to the same 
temperature as the wort that you are pitching 
into. Remove the cap, and sterilize the lip 
of the bottle with flame. Simply stir up the 
yeast in the bottle and pour the contents into 
the fresh beer wort. Subsequent generations of 
yeast should be better adapted to the 
conditions in which they are raised. If 
you do this with enough yeast strains, you will 
never lack for a big dose of just the right 
yeast strain for the beer style that you're trying 
to match.

5.3.     Other Yeast like beasties

There are other critters that want to live 
in your beer. Some of these beasties are 
wanted, most are not. To ensure that the 
only things in your beer are the things that you 
want there, try to develop a procedure for 
sanitization that will keep your equipment 
clean. I store my tubes, hoses, funnels, 
and other suitable equipment in a plastic (former) 
fermentation container that has a draining 
valve attached to the bottom. This stuff floats 
and soaks in a bleach solution, which I can 
also drain into carboys or conditioning 
buckets through use of the draining valve. 
When I'm through with the solution, I just 
pour it back into the storage container 
where it waits until the next time I need 
something sterilized. I keep smaller bits 
of equipment, such as airlock parts and my 
bottling siphon hose, in a smaller bucket, 
also with the same bleach solution. I have 
never had much of a problem with 
contamination, and I don't intend to start soon. 

Concerning those other beasties. For the 
most part, bacteria cannot survive in beer. 
The alcohol and low pH tend to inhibit most 
types of unwanted critters that live around 
the home. However, we must be on constant 
guard for those type of bacteria that thrive 
in such an environment, especially those 
that can establish beach heads in your wort 
before fermentation has begun. Anything 
that comes in contact with the cool, 
unfermented wort must be sterile. The most 
effective way to maintain sterility is to boil 
under pressure. Failing that, boil wort 
chillers and spoons in the hot liquor when you can. 
Other items of equipment may be better 
served by chemical sterilizers. Bleach is 
effective, but must be thoroughly rinsed off. 
Otherwise it will lead to detectable off 
flavors. Iodine in weak solution doesn't 
require rinsing, and is easier on your carpet if 
you are accident prone.

Rich Webb

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Date: Tue, 16 Aug 1994 08:21:10 -0700
From: Richard B. Webb <rbw1271 at appenine.ca.boeing.com>

Subject: The beginners guide to advanced and all-grain brewing

Yet another installment of

The beginners guide to advanced and all-grain brewing
By Richard B. Webb, the Brews Brother's 1993 Homebrewer of the year

part 10

6.     Mystery Ingredients

Before hops were popularized in beer 
making, the sweetness of the malt was 
balanced by what was called "gruit". This 
tended to be a trade secret of the brewer, and 
was often grown right outside in the garden. 
If you have a creative bent, especially if 
you're also a prolific gardener, don't be 
afraid to try different herbs for bittering 
purposes. If you don't trust yourself, try 
small batches with new experiments. Maybe you 
don't want 5 gallons of hot chilli flavored 
beer, or maybe you don't have enough onions 
or garlic to flavor a large batch. And do 
you really like oregano that much?

If I'm going to leave you with one 
thought, let it be this. Try to use your enthusiasm 
for this hobby as a springboard to bigger 
and better things. And don't be afraid to do 
something really stupid. It's the only way 
you're ever going to learn anything!

Well, that's it for this guide. Thanks for those of you who have
had the patience to tough it out with me. And I apologize to those
of you who have wrung your necks at the bad line formatting. Hopefully
this will be enough of an improvement for you.

Good luck in your brewing endeavors!

Rich Webb

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Date:     16 Aug 1994 11:51:47 EST5EDT
From: FRAN at hoffman.mgen.pitt.edu
Subject:  Micro Breweries

I am driving from Alaska to Boston and would like to visit as many 
microbreweries along the way as possible (eg Vancouver, Seattle etc).  Is 
there an internet source for a listing of breweries by geographical region 
or are there various books available?  I would appreciate some help on where 
to look for such information. Direct e-mail is best for me.

Thanks,  fran at hoffman.mgen.pitt.edu

Return to table of contents


Date: 16 Aug 1994 10:02:10 GMT
From: "THOMAS L. STOLFI" <OBCTS at CWEMAIL.CECO.COM>
Subject: Brewpubs/Micros in the Tucson AZ area


     If anyone know of any Brewpubs/Micros in the Tucson area please email me
     directly at   OBCTS at CWEMAIL.CECO.COM .  Thanks in advance.

     Tom Stolfi
     OBCTS at CWEMAIL.CECO.COM




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Date: 16 Aug 94 13:37:45 EDT
From: "William F. Cook" <71533.2750 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Mills/Zymurgy

I can't believe I'm saying this (and I *really* can't believe I'm getting
in the middle of the never-ending mill war), but I have to agree with Jack
about the recent Zymurgy article on Mills. Great pains were quite obviously
taken to avoid saying anything critical about *any* of the products, lest
they offend potential advertisers. The current editorial staff is not
providing a useful service to their readers. What I wanted to see was a
real review, not an advertisement for several products in the guise of an
article.

I own or have owned three mills: A Corona, a PhilMill, and an adjustable
MaltMill from JSP (most recent purchase). I have seen the Glatt mills and
I'm sure they are a fine product if you can get one, plastic gears
notwithstanding. For my money, the Maltmill is the best of the three I've
owned, though I'm annoyed at having to pay for 10-inch rollers when the
hopper makes the effective length only about 4 inches (I assume it would
be too difficult to turn the thing if the entire length was used). The
PhilMill provides a perfectly good crush, but has an horrible mount and
lousy throughput - it's probably a good buy for the money. The Corona is
difficult to get a good crush out of, but I can't show any scientific
data to indicate that my extraction rates have gone one way or the other.

For me, it came down to finding a mill with high throughput (and the JSP
is second to none in that category) which I felt comfortable about
motorizing. For somebody else, the dollar figure might be more important,
and I suppose that if I had any sense it would be more important for me,
too, but no price is too high for a really good homebrew toy :-). It's just a
shame that I had to go through three mills to find one that was satisfactory for
*my* purposes. Unfortunately, Zymurgy has done nothing to prevent others from
having the same problems.

Just MNSHO, send flames to /dev/null

Bill Cook
HydroComp, Inc.
Team Dennis Conner



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Date: Tue, 16 Aug 1994 13:19:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dodger Posey <dodger at quack.kfu.com>
Subject: Raspberry Wheat Recipe

Just thought I'd share this recipe I brewed recently that drew many
compliments.  The amount of fruit added was a geuss, and I ignored
advice to sanitize in any way the fruit addition cuz I'm just that way.

JazzBerry Juice

6.6#    Alexanders Unhopped Wheat LME (60/40)
1#      Malted Wheat
1 oz.   Mt.Hood Hop Pellets (boil) 5.5 AA
1 oz.   Hallertauer Hersbrucker Plugs (at 45 min) 4.6 AA
1/2 tsp Gypsum (rehydrated 20 min.) in boil
1/2 tsp Irish Moss (rehydrated 20 min.) last 20 min. of boil
1 pkg   Wyeast Bavarian Wheat Liquid Yeast (in starter)
4.5 #   Rasperries, frozen, thawed, strained (48 oz of juice)
5/8 c.  Bottling Sugar to prime

Place wheat malt in bag, in cold 2.5 g water in pot, bring to 160 deg.
and hold i hour.  Add LME, bring to boil. Add boil hops and gypsum.
at 40 min add Irish moss, at 45 min add HH hops. At 1 hour, cool pot
in water bath (tub) till 70 deg., about 40 min.  Strain into carboy
holding 2 gal preboiled, cooled, filtered water. Aerate Fully. Pitch
yeast starter, aerate again.  My ferment started at 6 hours.  Rack
to secondary after 5 days on top of the juice from the raspberries.
I bottled at 23 days.

The raspberries were from Trader Joe's. Listed as 100% fruit, no 
additives or preservatives. Metal strainer with soup ladel to press.
I was horrified when I did the secondary on top of the juice. I 
was sure I ruined the batch, it looked horribly pink. 
After 2 weeks in the bottle it was "OK", after 4 it was great, and 
I'm waiting to see if it gets better or worse.
LOTS of raspberry FLAVOR, excellent carbonation, tastes great and
most refreshing. Hope you like it. Comments welcome regarding procedure
and process.
OG 1.051
FG 1.010

dodger posey
dodger at quack.kfu.com


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Date: Tue, 16 Aug 1994 08:12:52 -0500
From: keithfrank at dow.com (R. Keith Frank, DCR&D, 409-238-9880)
Subject: Richmond, Charlotte Brewpubs?

I'm travelling to Richmond, VA and Charlotte, NC starting on Monday, Aug. 
22 and would like information and opinions on area brewpubs and regionally 
bottled micros.  Private or post.

Thanks,

Bruce DeBolt
c/o keithfrank at dow.com

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Date: 16 Aug 1994 14:04:15 U
From: "Stephen Lovett" <stephen_lovett at qm.claris.com>
Subject: Re:  Fermenting in Soda Kegs

 Subject: RE> Fermenting in Soda Kegs
I'd like to thank this agust body for all the responses on fermenting in
corny kegs. I have received a large number of informative replies, and many
good ideas. I was also pointed to several magazine articles and books for
additional information. 

The shear volume of information precludes posting an adequate summary to the
digest, so I thought that I'd put together a first draft of a fermenting in
cory kegs FAQ over the next couple of weeks, and then ftp it to the sierra
server. 

As I have not personally used any of the systems until this time, I'm not in
a position to intelligently comment on the relative merits of the many
divergent approaches I've received. Thus the first draft will be nothing more
than a compilation of information received, with the addition of my personal
research.

At a later date, (and after much home brew consumption <grin>) I'll update it
with more detailed comparisons between the approaches. 

Also I'd like to thank Phillip Seitz for his series on Belgian beers, and
(sorry I don't have your name handy) the fellow who has been posting the
mini-book on brewing practices to the digest. It is the dissemination of this
kind of in depth information that makes reading the HBD well worth the
occasional flame war.

Best of Brewing,

Stephen Lovett 



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Date: Wed, 17 Aug 94 13:05:03 EST
From: Aidan "Krazy Krausen Kropping Kiwi" Heerdegen <aidan at rschp2.anu.edu.au>
Subject: Keg Sanitation Slander!
Full-Name: Aidan "Krazy Krausen Kropping Kiwi" Heerdegen

SLANDER!!!!

John Palmer wrote a whole lot of good stuff about keg sanitation, but
did make a small boo-boo when he said:

| Aiden's post on not using Chlorine Bleach with stainless steel 
  ^^^^^
| kegs was not Wrong, but it can be used safely if the parameters 
| are understood.

Ummmm ... did you mean me (Aidan)?

In fact it was Adrien Glauser <Adrien_Glauser at tvo.org> who was the
poster ... just thought I would clear that up.

Thanks for the info John, very worthwhile.

I have sankey kegs, they are aluminium (aluminum for the element 
impaired) on the outside, but sort of look like stainless on the 
inside ..  is this common?  

Spot ya

Aidan

- --
Aidan Heerdegen				
e-mail: aidan at rschp2.anu.edu.au


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Date: Wed, 17 Aug 1994 01:00:49 -0600 (CST)
From: DARREN TYSON <TYSONDR at SLUVCA.SLU.EDU>
Subject: Sam Adams and EDME yeast/aluminum->Alzheimer's/Jim Koch bashing

Hello fellow homebrewers,

Yeast in Sam(TM) Adams(TM):
I recently mentioned that I was attempting to isolate yeast from 
commercial brews.  Someone has made me aware that this would most 
likely be futile with respect to bottled beers as most are 
pateurized as well as filtered, thereby killing and removing the 
yeast.  This same source, however, informed me that Samuel(TM) 
Adams(TM) that has been kegged is not pasteurized and likely contains 
active yeast.  I'll be packing a test tube next time I head out to the 
bars!

EDME dry yeast:
My two cents-- I used this yeast on my last batch, but first I made a 
starter.  The fermentation began within hours and slowed to <1 bubble 
in the airlock per 10 minutes within 36 hours, but I still had a small 
amount of postive pressure in my airlock for almost a week.  I have 
since bottled and after two weeks it is well-carbonated and has a nice 
finish.  I haven't noticed any contamination that Algis R Korzonas 
suggested may be found in the packages.  I think the high pitch rate
may have prevented any possible contamination.  So to Seth (and others), 
if you haven't been making a starter, you might want to start.

Aluminum pots and Alzheimer's:
For my birthday I have received a new 5-gallon aluminum pot for 
boiling my wort.  After reading posts on HBD about a possible link 
between aluminum and Alzheimer's I got ta thinkin' and a-worryin'.  
Does anyone have references to the above claims?  Should I try to 
return my aluminum pot and find an enamel-coated stainless steel pot?  
I don't want to return the pot if the above claims are unfounded 
(especially since I want to start a new batch soon!), but if the 
amount of aluminum that leeches into my wort is significant _and_ can 
cause health problems I don't want to risk it.  Please help me put my 
fears to rest.

Jim Koch bashing:
Recently and often I've seen a lot of Jim Koch bashing on the HBD.  I 
admit to a little myself with the (TM) slams.  But I would like to 
point out that while Jim Koch may not be the nicest man when it comes 
to business and marketing, he DOES do it well.  I've been told that 
not only is Samuel Adams trademarked, but just about every name of 
historical significance in the United States has been trademarked for 
the use of beer advertising by Boston Beer Co.!  Washington (TM), 
Jefferson(TM), etc.  While this may seem to be drastic and ridiculous, 
it is also a pretty sound marketing strategy.  What we view as 
excessive and ludicrous is probably preventing other companies from 
capitalizing on name association.  On a different note, Boston Beer Co. 
is forcing many of the gigabreweries (AB, Miller, Coors) to make 
alternative styles of beer to satisfy the growing number of beer 
drinkers who have realized that American Light Lager is not the only
kind of beer.  I for one am thankful for the efforts of JK to force 
"beer-enlightenment" on the masses through his hard-ball marketing, 
even though I DO think some of it is extreme.  The Boston Beer Co. is 
quite a successful business, and I can't fault JK for trying to make 
more money!  And they make some pretty good beer to boot!

May all your beer be homebrewed,

Darren                  tysondr at sluvca.slu.edu


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Date: Wed, 17 Aug 1994 07:08:44 -0500
From: djlissick at mmm.com
Subject: brewpubs in Camarillo, Calif area (Dan Lissick djlissick at mmm.com)


My friend Doug Lapoint is moving to Camarillo in a few weeks and would
appreciate any information on brewpubs and brew supply stores in the 
area (Ventura, Oxnard, Camarillo, Thousand Oaks).  TAI  
Post or Private e-mail.

Dan Lissick 
djlissick at mmm.com

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Date: Wed, 17 Aug 94 09:14:55 -0400
From: "Phillip Seitz" <p00644 at psilink.com>
Subject: Brewing Belgian Beers (#5): Strong Ales

Brewing Belgian Beers (#5): Strong ales

Description:

1.062-1.120, 6-12% ABV, 16-30 IBU, 3.5-20 SRM  
Pale to dark brown.  Low hop bitterness and aroma ok, should blend with
other flavors.  Medium to high esters in flavor and aroma.  Phenols ok.
Often highly aromatic. Spices or orange ok.  Strength evident, but
alchohol flavor subdued or absent.  Medium to full body,  sometimes with
a high terminal gravity. Medium to high carbonation.  No roasted flavors
or diacetyl.

Belgian strong ale recipes are usually formulated to show off yeast
character, with all other ingredients playing a supporting role.  The
flavor may be subtly complex, but should not be crowded.  Body is
comparatively light for beers of this strength, due to use of brewing
adjuncts or of pilsner malt only.  High carbonation also helps; these
beers should feel like mousse on the palate and have an impressive head.
The best examples may be noticeably strong but still have no alchohol
flavor.  Flemish examples tend toward higher terminal gravities
(1.025-1.050), while Walloon versions are usually more attenuated.

Due to the vagueries of AHA style categories, Trappist strong ale clones
(Chimay, etc.) should be submitted in this category.  Despite what
Michael Jackson says, Saisons are strong ales and should also be
submitted to contests in this category.


Brewing method:

Yeast choice is absolutely crucial, as the yeast will provide the
foundation flavors for the beer and all other ingredients should be
added to support or accentuate them.  As with all beers of this
strength, high pitching rates and agressive aeration are necessary.
Fermentation temperatures should be cool (below 65F) to avoid creation
of headache-causing fusels.

Infusion or step mashing techniques are standard procedure.  Most
commercial versions use pilsner malt as a base, but many also use
substantial quantities of sugar or flaked corn as an adjunct.  Caramel,
Munich and toasted malts are often used in small quantities; roasted
malts are sometimes used in very small amounts for coloring only.  All
classic hop varieties are common, but are used in small and judicious
quantities.  Sugars are added in the kettle, as are spices.  Many spices
have delicate aromas and should be boiled for just a few minutes, if at
all.  Common choices are bitter or sweet orange peel, coriander,
vanilla, and anise.

Extract brewers will do fine in this category.  Start with pale extract,
adding judicious quantities of caramel malts and sugar (1-2 pounds) to
the kettle.  The secret is to choose the right yeast and to keep your
ferment as clean as possible.

Priming should be about 7/8 (125 grams) for five gallons.  Addition of
fresh yeast at bottling should assist with carbonation; a 1-pint starter
is sufficient.


Common Problems:

1) Solvent & banana flavors.  Fermentation at excessive temperature,
poor yeast health, or both.  Particularly a problem with people using
Wyeast Belgian or Chimay yeasts at temps above 62F.

2) Wrong type of orange.  Sunkist type orange should not be substituted
for bitter or sweet orange.

3) Insufficient carbonation.  Use more priming sugar, or add fresh yeast
when bottling.


Commerical examples:

Corsendonk blond (8% ABV), Corsendonk brown (8% ABV), Saison DuPont (6.5%
ABV), Gouden Carolus (7% ABV), Scaldis (12% ABV), Duvel (8.5% ABV), Brigand
(9% ABV), Oerbier (7.5% ABV), Arabier (8% ABV), Bos Keun (7% ABV), Stille Nacht
(8% ABV), Pauwel Kwak (8% ABV), Celis Grand Cru, Mateen (9% ABV)


Sample recipe:

Jeff Frane's Strong Ale
GUMMITCH at TELEPORT.COM

DeWolf-Cosyns pilsner malt    9 pounds
DeWolf-Cosyns aromatic malt   0.6 pounds
DeWolf-Cosyns caramunich      1 pound
Flaked maize                  1 pound
Light candy sugar             1.5 pounds

BC Goldings                   1 oz boiled for 15 mins
Mt Hood                       1 oz boiled for 15 minutes
Saaz                          0.25 oz boiled for 60 minutes

Made 5.75 gallons at 1.062

Mash in the malts (not the maize) at 98F in 3.5 gallons water and adjust
pH.  Raise to 120F and hold for 30 minutes.  Raise to 153, add maize,
and hold until conversion (about 45 minutes).  Raise to 175 for 15
minutes for mashout.

Add sugar to kettle and boil for 90 minutes.  At 1/2 tablespoon
rehydrated Irish moss to boil for 75 minutes.

Ferment with Wyeast White, prime with 1 cup corn sugar.

[Phil's note: This produced the best and most authentic Belgian-style
homebrew I've tasted.  This is the one to beat!]




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Date: 17 Aug 1994 10:03:42 EST
From: haltstei <HALTSTEI at UMAB.UMD.EDU>
Subject:  ATTENTION HUMAN


ATTENTION, please add my name to your e-mail list.

Thanks

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Date: Thu, 18 Aug 1994 00:01:00 +0930 (CST)
From: zoz at cs.adelaide.edu.au (Delta One-Niner)
Subject: Priming with DME


- -- 
     ______        _____________    ______________________          ______
    /\####/\      /            /   /                     /         /\####/\
   /  \##/  \    /_______     /   /    _     ______     /         /  \##/  \
  /____\/____\          /    /   /    / \    \    /    /         /____\/____\
  \####/\####/         /    /____\    \_/    /   /    /_______   \####/\####/
   \##/  \##/         /                     /   /            /    \##/  \##/
    \/____\/         /_____________________/   /____________/      \/____\/

                            zoz at cs.adelaide.edu.au

                   If you see a blind man, run up and kick him.
                   Why should you be kinder than God?

                           -- Old Iranian Proverb

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Date: Wed, 17 Aug 94 08:16:10 PDT
From: hollen at megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck)
Subject: Re: Comments on keg fermenting

Nice addition to the keg-fermenting treatise.  I plan to add them to
stuff I send out to people.

See Ya, tonite.

dion

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Date: Wed, 17 Aug 94 08:21:54 PDT
From: hollen at megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck)
Subject: Re: Keg Fermenting

>>>>> "Al" == Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583 <korz at iepubj.att.com> writes:

Al> Just four words of advice to those contemplating fermenting in
Al> Cornelius Kegs: "beware of clogged blowoff."  By using a
Al> poppetless valvebody as Dion suggests, you are hoping that the
Al> small hole (about 1/4" or so) in the top of the valve body will
Al> not clog with hop bits.  This can be a very messy (and even
Al> dangerous -- if you don't have a overpressure relief valve in the
Al> lid as some older kegs don't) proposition.  Based on my own
Al> experience with clogged blowoff tubes on glass fermenters it can
Al> happen quite easily and is virtually guaranteed if you try to
Al> ferment fruit.

Sorry to disagree, but you do not mention that you have ever fermented
in keg, merely used blowoff tube in glass carboys.  A soda keg is
rated safely at 130 psi.  I guarantee you that if any hop bits got
stuck in a poppet hole, they would be blown out forcefully loooooong
before the safety margin of the keg was reached.

Also, where are those hop bits coming from?  With proper techniques in
your brewing pot, there should never be any whole hops or whole hop
bits in the fermenter.  I certainly don't get any in mine.  If you are
talking about the fine particles with hop pellets, I can buy them
getting into the fermenter, but cannot imagine them ever clogging the
blowoff tube.  Again, will be blown out long before safety margin is
reached. 

Dion Hollenbeck (619)675-4000x2814     Email: hollen at megatek.com
Staff Software Engineer     Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California

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Date: Wed, 17 Aug 1994 11:34:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: Re: Crushing wheat

Anton writes:
> Subject: mash #29
> encouraging.  Here's what I learned about making wheat beer.
> 
> The grain bill called for 70 % wheat and 30% pale malt.  I tried several 
> settings on my adjustable Maltmill but found that the setting for the best
> wheat crush was the same as the setting for the best barley crush (don't
> ya just hate it when Jack is right :-).  Wheat is harder and crushing it
> requires more arm or horse power, as the case may be.  Having a home brew
> near by to replace fluids lost due to the sweat generated by cranking the
> mill is recommended :-).
> 
This is not what I have found.  Wheat malt, be it Gambrinus or
DeWolf/Cosyns in my adjustable MM crushes better when I adjust
the rollers to be closer than the default position.  With other
malts, I tend to use the default position, but for wheat, I 
turn it closer.  Maybe I should ask "what is a better crush"?

Id also like to point out that while a 70/30 ratio is 
commendable, for a first time weizen brewer, 60/40 may make
life a bit easier.  Also, dont neglect the importance of
protein rests in weizens.

Good brewing,
Jim Busch

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Date: Wed, 17 Aug 1994 10:26:00 -0500 (CDT)
From: gellym at aviion.persoft.com (brewing chemist Mitch)
Subject: Keg lauter tuns

In HBD 1503, George Temple asks:

> Has anyone posted directions on modifying a keg into a
> brew kettle? I've got an AB-Bud keg (with the metal
> handles up top, no rubberized plastic on top or bottom)
> and would like to Sawzall the top dome out of it and
> add a drain/false bottom to it.
> 
> Any suggestions?

Sure. If you're just talking about making one into a lauter-tun, don't cut
the top off! Remove the piece on the top where the tap attaches to (whatever 
the hell it's called), and cut the _bottom_ off of the barrel. Turn it over,
and now you have a nice concave bottom with a drain in the middle. Weld an
elbow piece to the drain on the outside of the keg, add a valve to that and
all you will need after that is a false bottom. 

Later,

Mitch

- -- 
|                       - Mitch Gelly -                        | Zack Norman |
|  software QA specialist, systems administrator, zymurgist,   |     is      |
| AHA/HWBTA beer judge, & president of the Madison Homebrewers |  Sammy in   |
|      - gellym at aviion.persoft.com - gelly at persoft.com -       | Chief Zabu  |

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Date:         Wed, 17 Aug 94 10:35:55 CDT
From: Ed Blonski <S851001 at UMSLVMA.UMSL.EDU>
Subject:      Christmas Brews

Greetings fellow brewers!
  I'm in the Christmas spirit now!
  My thanks to all who replied to my previous post asking for formulas.
I decided to go with a variation of Papazian's "Holiday Cheer" formula in
TNCJOHB. Instead of ginger root (I hate ginger - Mary Ann was more my style) I
went with a couple of tsps of mint. I just racked into my secondary fermenter
and it's got a nicetaste to it, with a hint of mint aroma that I was looking
for.
 I was curious about the OG reading. It was a 1.04, not what the book was
looking for (1.054 - 1.060). Maybe it was the temp. I'm still not up on the
conversion tables yet (I didn't get past freshman college math). It was 76
degrees in my basement the day I started. The OG reading was 1.040 and I think
I'm supposed to add .003 to it? Anyone help me on this? E-mail is fine.
Later!  (jingle bells, jingle bells, drinking all the way!)
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
better people - better food - better beer
Why move around the world when Eden was so near?

Ed Blonski
Brewing in the Town that Bud built.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

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Date:     Wed, 17 Aug 1994 11:47 EDT
From: HEWITT at arcges.arceng.com
Subject:  Stein lids revisited

  I recently spent a week with three German business associates and
took the opportunity to ask about the infamous "why do steins have lids"
debate.  One amusing response went something like--

  When Prussians came to Bavaria, they would enter the biergarten and
ask for lemonade.  The bartenders became upset that they didn't order
beer and slammed the lemonade down on the table.  Nearby Bavarians were
forced to cover their mugs with their hands to avoid getting lemonade
in their beer, thus the lid was conceived.

Pat Hewitt, Atlantic Research Corp.


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Date: Wed, 17 Aug 1994 08:53:09 +0000
From: mmurphy at efn.org (M. Murphy)
Subject: Phil lauter thing

     Although I've been brewing all-grain for five batches with makeshift
equipment, today was my first with an honest to goodness American picnic
cooler, and a phil (spinny) sparger. Needles to say the kitchen was a mess.

        The crux of this biscuit is that I was wondering if anyone out
there has fitted a Phil lautering device into a five gallon picnic cooler.
I ask only because when I called up Listeman Manufacuring to ask a couple
questions, the guy I spoke with says that he *transfers* his grain from his
picnic cooler mash tun into a lauter tun. Why? Why not fit a phil lauter
device into the cooler? Any reason?
        BTW, I think that all of the phil stuff I own are good products and
have eased my brewing burden. 



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Date:         Wed, 17 Aug 94 10:44:37 CDT
From: Larry Bristol <LBRISTOL at SYSUBMC.BMC.COM>
Subject:      Mashing Equipment

Mark Montminy wrote:

>      My question, that I have grappled with since first beginning
> to consider all-grain is which type of mash system.  I know this
> has been hashed and re-hashed but I never saw it presented like:
> "I perfer this system because..." and "My thingy(tm) is better
> than his because..."  I am leaning toward the 10 gal gott but
> wonder about all the hype regarding wierd chemicals leaching out
> under the conditions (hot) that the plastic was not intended to
> take.  The mail order place that I get my stuff(tm) has a system
> like phil's but all SS (read$$).  I like the idea of a round
> design because I like the looks of phil's sparger.  I haven't
> read any negative posts about it and the gentle action seems to
> be just the thing.   Private or post@ your descretion.

Mark (and others) this is also MY first article to the digest so I
also request gentleness.  I figured I would answer with my opinions
because I recently went through the same type of process.  The good
news is that all-grain brewing is NOT as difficult as some would make
it out to be, and there is a lot of good and relatively inexpensive
equipment out there for we homebrewers.

I have seen a lot of material here and elsewhere concerning using a
10 gallon gott cooler as a mash tun.  I have seen nothing negative,
and do not believe you have anything to worry about regarding leaching
of any chemicals.  My understanding is that there is no danger of this
type from the use of any food grade plastics.  I have seen claims that
the inside liner of a Gott will withstand the high temperatures without
warping, melting, or any other problems.

I happened to have one of those steel Igloo 10 gallon water coolers with
a food grade platic liner.  By replacing the push button spicket with a
plastic faucet thingy(tm) from my local homebrew supply shop, I made a
really swell mash/lauter tun!  I use one of those Phil's false bottom
gadgets and that Phil's sparger with the rotating sprinkler.  It seems
to me that this makes a very efficient system.  Somewhere I have gotten
the idea that 75% efficiency is "average", but my actual starting gravities
have been consistently higher than those expectations computed using this
factor.  Frankly, I attribute this to the sparger; the gentle and very
consistent washing it generates seems to discourage all of the problems
(channelling, clogging, and so forth) that seem to plague this process.

Naturally, I am not affiliated with Phil's outfit in any way.  There are
bound to be other folks that have good systems also, but count me as a
very satisfied customer that highly recommends Phil's false bottom and
sparger.

- ------------------------------------------------------------
Larry Bristol      |  A true Hitchhiker
SYSUBMC.BMC.COM    |      always knows where
(713)274-7802      |      his towel is.
- ------------------------------------------------------------

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Date: Wed, 17 Aug 94 10:56:10 MDT
From: Jason Goldman <jason at bluestar.cnd.hp.com>
Subject: Re:Going to Germany...

I tried to reply, but my mail bounced.

In answer to a question about beer in Germainy...

If your friend has time, I highly recommend making the trip Bamberg
and trying the rauchbier.  I never thought I liked smoked beer until
I went there.  Spezial and Schlenkerla are my favorites.  Tuebingen,
a university town, has a nice brew pub (the Nekar Mueller).  They had
a very nice Hefe Weizen.  Munich is excellent, of course.  In that
area, I don't think that you can go wrong.  My favorite beers, some of
which I brought back were:
  Schneider Weisse (Munich)
  Spezial Rauchbier (Bamberg)
  Schlenkerla Rauchbier (Bamberg)
  Rauchenfels Steinbier (Neuestadt bei Coburg)
  Spaten, esp. Pils (Munich)
  Loewenbrau, esp, Weizen (Munich)
  Hofbrau Haus, esp. Maibock--a little late, now, though (Munich)


Jason
jason at bluestar.cnd.hp.com

Beer is...good.

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Date: 17 Aug 94 17:09:00 GMT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: Re: Keg Fermenting

Dion writes in response to my warnings about clogged blowoff on a 
Cornelius keg fermenter:

>Sorry to disagree, but you do not mention that you have ever fermented
>in keg, merely used blowoff tube in glass carboys.

You are correct that I have not fermented in a keg, but this does not mean
that I cannot extrapolate my experiences with glass carboys to kegs.

>A soda keg is
>rated safely at 130 psi.  I guarantee you that if any hop bits got
>stuck in a poppet hole, they would be blown out forcefully loooooong
>before the safety margin of the keg was reached.

The keg would not have to explode to injure.  I'm not so sure that a clogged
blowoff would clear itself and what if someone tried to remove a clogged
valve body with 100 psi in the keg?  Yes, I know, release the pressure first,
but what if there is no overpressure valve in the lid?  (remeber my original
post mentioned the lack of an overpressure valve?)

>Also, where are those hop bits coming from?  With proper techniques in
>your brewing pot, there should never be any whole hops or whole hop
>bits in the fermenter.  I certainly don't get any in mine.  If you are
>talking about the fine particles with hop pellets, I can buy them
>getting into the fermenter, but cannot imagine them ever clogging the
>blowoff tube.  Again, will be blown out long before safety margin is
>reached. 

You know the brown ring that lines oversized fermenters, just above the
liquid level?  That's made up of hop bits and resins and that's what
clogs small blowoff hoses in non-fruit beers.  With fruit beers, I'm 
sure you agree with me.

Excluding the safety issue, there is the issue of gushing.  I've had
blowoff hoses clog: both times the result was only loss of beer and
a mess to clean up, thank God.

The first time was with a 1/4" ID blowoff tube on a Brown Ale.  When the
stopper blew, 3 gallons of beer gushed out of the top of the carboy and
painted the *ceiling* a nice shade of tan.  This despite two inverted black
plastic garbage bags over the carboy.  (BTW, my tax returns were on the
table next to the carboy... yuk!)

The second time was with a 1/2" ID blowoff tube on a fruit beer.  When the
stopper blew this time, only a gallon of beer was lost, but a good pound of
raspberry pulp was decorating the walls and ceiling.

Now I use a 1" ID blowoff tube and sleep much better.

Even if the clog was cleared at, say 30 psi, and the blowoff tube stayed in
place, the resulting gushing would still mean a loss of significant beer.
I'm not just trying to knock you methods, rather I'm trying to relay my
experiences and save some brewers from making the same mistakes I've made.

One more word of caution regarding using Cornelius kegs to ferment.  Standing
up, they are tall and narrow, which, according to George Fix and Jean DeKlerck,
is a poor geometry for a fermenter.  Some yeasts do very poorly in this
fermenter geometry and of course yeast settling takes 50% longer since the
yeast has 50% more distance to travel as in a carboy.

I really sound like I'm bashing your methods.  I don't mean to be so negative,
but if someone is contemplating Cornelius kegs for fermenters, they should
know the minuses as well as the pluses.

Al.

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1505, 08/19/94