FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Ants in my pants- Responce summary. aka Hop Pests (COYOTE)
  Mini-keg wisdom (Mark)
  Malt Crushing (Frank J Dobner +1 708 979 5124)
  Fruit/Wyeast California lager/beginners guide comments (sorry so long) (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  Chill Haze (David Allison 225-5764)
  Re: Rims fix (Dion Hollenbeck)
  Colo. Chillers(Coolers?); Scratch-n-sniff (john keith hopp)
  Lautering & Gravity (Lowell Hart)
  Weizens, Bananas and Esters (JohnNewYrk)
  Gott Mailorder Source (Lee Bollard)
  Penetrating hop aroma ("Glenace L. Melton")
  INBOX Message (See Below) (Mailer.MC1)
  aluminium... (U-E68882-John Bloomberg)
  Homebrew Digest Request ("Rick Thompson")
  British Beer Festivals (Matt Townsend)
  re Al v Alzheimer's (Chip Hitchcock)
  Aluminum and Alzheimer's, again (Nancy.Renner)
  Phoenix, AR - Brewpubs/Breweries? (R. Keith Frank, DCR&D, 409-238-9880)
  Re:Reusing Yeast / Minikegs (Arturo Portnoy)
  Aluminum / Keg Blowoff (COYOTE)
  Raspberry Wheat Recipe Error (Dodger Posey)



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Date: Thu, 18 Aug 1994 10:19:27 -0600 (MDT)
From: COYOTE <SLK6P at cc.usu.edu>
Subject: Ants in my pants- Responce summary. aka Hop Pests

As is common practice- I'm gonner post the responces/suggestion I got
for dealing with ant infestations on my hops.


Lennigan vs. the Ants:

1.  Harrasment.  Water, physical...general abuse to encourage them to move
elsewhere.   Not my favorite.  Not comforting enough.

2.  Nicotine Sulfate: The chewing tobacco approach.  
I don't SPIT on my plants.  And they love me for it!  But really,
haven't tried it.  It seems like a fairly un-invasive, semi organic approach.

3.  Boric Acid:  Was touted as an alternative to Diazonon and such nasty
chemicals, since nasty chemicals "may" be taken up by plants.
BUT....As boric ACID is exaclty THAT, I'm not sure if it would be favorable
to the soil environment, and that it TOO wouldn't stand a chance of being 
taken up by plants.  Also the case with nicotine, but plants don't mind that
one.  I'll stick to boric acid in the garage, and driveway.  Keep the buggers
out of the dog food, keep the poisons out of the dogs!

4.  Sticky stuffs:  Tanglefoot.  Seemed to be the winner in the least
potentially harmful category.  One fellow suggesting wrapping the stems with
foil, then applying the tanglefoot to the foil.  Too many stems, too much 
hassle for this wildebeast.  I can't see the tanglefoot would pose anyharm
to the plant.  Especially at the base.  I suppose it's basically the same stuff
as is found on flystrips/paper.  Fine for crawlers, but maybe not for hoppers.
Problem is:  The body-bridge concept.  Many stuck ants serve as a bridge over
which MORE ants can crawl.  One thing about these buggers...they are a 
PERSISTENT organized bunch.  Very creative.

5.  Toxins.  Diazonon is a common use pesticide.  It is effective against ants.
It has been claimed by several sources to be safe TO the plant.
i.e., not absorbed or translocated into the plant.  I went ahead and used it
BUT  did not apply it TO the plant, just around the base.  Yes it can go into
the soil, but should not end up in any cones of the plant.
PEST-icides are generally designed to be absorbed by PESTS
HERB-icides are generally designed to be absorbed by HERBS/plants.

As one person pointed out:  Ya sure...but we used to LOVE DDT.
(There's even a bottle of bug-killer in my basement from the 30's
proudly advertizing it's contents:  "Contains DDT!!!"  
(bright flashing lights,  whistles and sirens blare...)

So....take it for what you will.  

Murphy's oil soap is probably still one of the safest all around protecters.
May not be the most effective, but it's cheap and harmless.
Handplucking can do little harm (as long as you don't uproot the plant!)

I'm on the verge of picking some hops.  My cones are starting to get that
"papery" feel.  And I figure the ones higher up ripen faster than the ones
I reach from the ground.  So I'll be testing my HOP-POLE-PULLEY- system.
So far so good.  

Brew-Update:

	Kegged half of the porter I brewed a week+ago.  (At least it's
a porter by MY definition!  Whatever the hell that is!) Also brewed up a
Red-ale for fall consumption.  I'd post the recipes, but I've been to
lazy....ugh I mean busy....to record them.  Just threw in some grains and
went for it.  LOTS of hops of course, and HOMEGROWN Cascade to finish.  I'm 
gonna dry hop the keg with a tad more just for kicks.  I have a LARGE bag of
locally grown rasberries in the freezer waiting for somewhere to go!
Hmm..rasberry honey porter, or Red Dawn. What'll it be!  
It's nice to be brewing again!
  
I made one batch of mead using woodruff, and will be experimenting with 
small batches and herbs from my garden.  Just to see what they do!
Anyone have any tried and true favorites?  Pesto Melomel anyone!?

	Now if I could only install a drain in the floor of the garage,
and develop a way to keep the area from turning into the Amityville horror
when I crank up the Coyote Cooker!  Seems like brewdays CAUSE the wind to
change from the south, (where the cows are!) bringing with them FLIES galore!
Keep reminding the wife how glad she should be that I'm brewing in the garage
so she won't mind spending a bit more money on sink hardware and attachments!
So far so good!   Besides she gets her washing machine today so she'll be 
happy!   I'll be HOPPY!!!!    What a pair!

\/\/\/- Hopping Along with the Cosmic Coyote 
				- John Wyllie SLK6P at cc.usu.edu -\/\/\/\/


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Date: Thu, 18 Aug 94 11:08:34 -0600
From: Mark <markc at ssd.fsi.com>
Subject: Mini-keg wisdom

Since several people have been asking about those mini-kegs I'm
putting in this little bit of mini-keg wisdom I've acquired over
the last few months.

I bought one several months ago and hated it. I truly believed the
mini-keg to be a crime against humanity.  After a little 
experimentation I couldn't be happier with it. Here's my experience
summarized:

1) Priming: In general if you want to drink the keg in a week, add
   a tablespoon of corn sugar to the keg.
   All others I add nothing or 1/2 tablespoon of corn sugar, depending
   on how low the FG.

2) Buy extra rubber bungs for the kegs. Somewhere along the line
   you will loose part of one or accidentally push it out into the
   keg (where it is only retrievable by emptying the beer, not cool).
   They're cheap, do it!

3) Tapping the keg:  When tapping a new keg, don't release any CO2
   into the keg, until you need it to get the beer out. i.e. let the
   natural pressure push the beer out. When you can't fill a glass in
   20 seconds or so, then you can release some CO2 into the keg. Only
   release the CO2 in until you hear it stop then close the valve
   again. By leaving the valve open, the beer will get way over-
   carbonated. You'll get a feel for it. Maybe you just want to let
   in a little if you want to keep the carbonation down.

4) Installing a CO2 cartridge:  Always make sure the valve is closed.
   Put a dab of some kind of grease or margarine or something on the
   end of the cartridge that will be pierced. This way the lip is
   sealed and it won't all leak out over a period of time. Even if
   you remove the tapper from an empty keg and you wait a while
   before you tap the next one. In general I use 1 cartridge and a
   little bit of a second one per keg.

5) I've kept a keg of beer tapped in my fridge for 2 months one
   time with no change in the beer. I imagine you could get away
   with a much longer time if necessary.

6) When I bought mine, I was told to buy the metal one, it would
   last longer. For now I'm glad I bought the plastic one, it's
   cheaper and seems sturdy enough.

All in all I love not washing all those bottles and I love the
variety a small keg gives me.  5 liters is about all I want of a
particular beer before I want a different kind.  So, I always have
3 or 4 different kinds of beer lying around in a keg and then the
few odd bottles to take to friends.

It's not a panacea, it's a mini-keg.

mark

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Date: 18 Aug 94 17:43:00 GMT
From: fjdobner at ihlpa.att.com (Frank J Dobner +1 708 979 5124)
Subject: Malt Crushing

After reading the Fall 94 Zymurgy articles on grain crushing, I just want 
to say how even happier I am to have decided years ago to purchase
a Corona to do this job. Quantitatively and qualitatively I now know
that there is nothing within reach of a homebrewers pocketbook that would make
me much happier. I enjoy the beer I make, it sparges quickly and the extract
yield is just great. Thank you AHA Research Department for a fine report.
I hope that you continue with this type of research. I also hope that
both Zymurgy and Brewing Techniques thrive in their respective circles.
I enjoy both of them greatly. 

Frank Dobner
Aurora, Illinois

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Date: 18 Aug 94 18:50:00 GMT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: Fruit/Wyeast California lager/beginners guide comments (sorry so long)

Mark writes (quoting JohnNewYrk):
>> Don't add fruit to your primary.  Your wort is at it's most vunerable just
>> before fermentation begins.  Adding fruit to your wort & the dumping it all
>> into the primary would open up your wort to all kinds of nasties living in or
>> on the fruit.  Fruit is usually added to the SECONDARY, when the yeast has
>> already asserted itself and there's enough alcohol to discourage bacterial
>> infection.
> 
>I don't think "usually added to secondary" is quite right. Fruit
>can be added to the boil, at the end of the boil along with
>aroma hops, in primary, in secondary, or even at bottling.

Technically, yes, the fruit *can* be added at any of these times, but adding
the fruit to boiling wort will almost certainly set the pectins creating
a permanent haze (actually, pectinase may help, but I've never used it).
I don't know about "usually," but I feel that sanitized fruit is *best*
added in the secondary to:

 avoid setting the pectins,

 minimize risk of infection, and

 minimize the loss of fruit aromatics to CO2 scrubbing.

Further Mark quotes Ralph Bucca:
>  "Adding fruit during the primary fermentation is the 
>   preferred stage. The fruit should be added after a
>   vigorous fermentation has started. There will be 
>   enough active yeast present to make sure that the
>   fruit does not contaminate the beer and that it also
>   begins fermenting. After a week the beer should be
>   racked off the yeast and fruit..."
> 
>According to Ralph, if you choose to add to secondary, you
>really need to watch the sanitation.

I must disagree.  I feel the secondary is the preferred stage to add fruit.
While it's true that you need to watch sanitation when you add fruit to the
secondary, you need to watch it even more when you add it in the primary.
Mr. Bucca is confusing high kraeusen with some sort of "protection from
infection" whereas in fact, just as JohnNewYrk said, the alcohol is higher
*after* primary fermentation and that adds an additional level of security
against infection from microbiota on the fruit.  No amount of active yeast
will protect your beer from contamination.  All we can hope to achieve
(short of autoclaving or irradiating the fruit) is a minimum amount of
effect from wild yeasts and bacteria that the fruit inevitably brings into
the beer.

********
Paul writes:
>Both responses to my query on 65 - 70 degree lager fermentation 
>recommended Wyeast's California Lager #1214, which is allegedly 
>Anchor's steam yeast.

Wyeast California Lager is #2112, whereas the #1214 is the Belgian Ale.

********
More comments on Rich's beginner's guide:

>pH value of 7. Water that has been carbonated 
>by dissolving carbon dioxide in it (forming 
>a weak carbolic acid) has a lower pH, as 

That should be carbonic acid. Also, Rich goes on to talk about acid
rain and pollution -- what's this got to do with brewing?

>water than carbonization or auto exhaust.

What you mean is carbonation.  Carbonization is something entirely different.

>acidic grains. Water that has a 
>high concentration of Sulfates is lower in pH 
>than neutral water. Put another way, water 
>that is high in Sulfates is good for brewing 
>pale grains...

No.  Water high in Calcium is lower in pH and is thus good for brewing WITH
pale grains.  The sulfates in Burton-upon-Trent water do have an effect on
the beer, but not specifically tied to the pH, but rather it accentuates
bitterness and gives the beer a long, dry, finish.  Adding Gypsum (Calcium
Sulfate) will lower the pH because of the Calcium, not the Sulfate.

(This water [high in sulfates] also accentuates 
the bitterness of hops, and therefore is 
useful for making very hoppy beers.)

High sulfate water is not necessarily good for brewing very hoppy beers 
(try making a Pilsner with 40 IBUs with high sulfate water!), but rather
it must be taken into consideration when deciding on a hop rate.  If you
are making an IPA, then high sulfate water is great -- it all depends on
what you are trying to brew.

I think the discussion of limestone caves doesn't have anything to do
with brewing either.

>Chlorine
Chlorine in the water can result in beer with chlorophenols in it, which
are particularly unwelcome in beer and can be detected at very low levels.
I personally feel that all brewing water should be boiled... if you have
time to make beer, you can make the additional time to make better beer.

>Contaminants

What about iron?  It's not usually considered a contaminant, but can make
for very bad-tasting beer.  What's the point in mentioning pollution if
you are not going to give acceptable levels for brewing or something like
that?

>Baling scale

Balling scale.

>You should bring the wort to a full and 
>rolling boil before  you add any hops, waiting 
>until after the foam, or hot-break, dissolves. 

No, you don't want to wait till the bot break dissolves -- this could take
hours of boiling and it's not what you want to do anyway.  You probably mean
until the hot break *forms*.  This is a debatable subject, but most commercial
brewers wait for a few minutes after the boil had begun -- I feel that this
has to do with maximizing hop utilization.  Hops help hot break form and I
theorize that perhaps the reason that it is good to wait till the hot break
bas begun to form so that maybe it minimizes the amount of hot break that coats
the hops.  This all hand waving and unsubstantiated theories, but makes for
good discussions in the HBD, so what the heck.

>want to coagulate out of the final beer. Of
>course, if you want a thick, full bodied beer 
>(nutritious, as the Brits would say), then a 
>long boil, over 90 minutes, will encourage the 
>protein to re-dissolve back into the wort.

Could you give us a reference to this "fact?"

>(percents expressed as decimal equivalents, 8% =0.08)

Not if later you are dividing by 100!  Either or.

>This chart of my own construction shows the 
>IBUs necessary to achieve one definition 
>of "balanced" hop bitterness, based on 
>the original gravity of the wort:

Note quite.  It should be a chart of FG versus IBUs.  You can make a
beer that has an OG of 1040 with an FG of 1015 which will be horribly
underhopped with 16 IBUs.  Also, you have not included the sulfates
into the table (which would make it 3-D, right?).  I think that this
is a very tricky subject, this "balanced" hop rate issue, and not one
to be solved with a simple table like this.  It has to do with the
mash temp, how much crystal malt you used, the OG, the attenuation of
the yeast and perhaps a few more.

Al.


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Date: Thu, 18 Aug 1994 12:30:00 -0800 (PST)
From: David Allison 225-5764 <ALLISON.DAVID at A1GW.GENE.COM>
Subject: Chill Haze


I have a chill haze problem with my Pale Ales that I was hoping to get some 
help from HBD-land.  How do I know it is chill haze? When I warm the beer 
the haze goes away;  when I chill the beer the haze appears again.

I currently do an infusion mash with modified 2-row (Great Western Premium 
2-row) at 150 - 152 F.  I sparge with 176 F water at pH 5.0 - 5.5.  The 
hardness of the water for infusion and sparging is approx. 125 ppm.  I am 
using the yeast from my secondary fermentor that is on it's 4th generation. 
This yeast was originally harvested from SNPA bottles and streaked onto 
potato-dextrose slants (Becton Dickinson).

Even after conditioning the beer in corny kegs at 34F for weeks, the chill 
haze does not settle out.  Is the appearance of the beer the only problem 
with chill haze? or is there a potential stability problem?  Are there 
other potential problems?

Any ideas on the causes or cures for chill haze?

It doesn't bother me, but I believe that perception is important, 
especially to those who may not want to drink a cloudy beer. TIA

 - David



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Date: Thu, 18 Aug 94 13:10:33 PDT
From: hollen at megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck)
Subject: Re: Rims fix

>>>>> "kit" == kit anderson <kit.anderson at acornbbs.com> writes:

kit> TO: homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com

kit> A number of people have said that they can't get Rodney Morris' RIMS 
kit> heat controller to  work as designed. Tim Poff sent this message to me 
kit> from the Zymurgy echo on Fidonet.

kit> Hello again.

kit> At the expense of sounding waaaaay off topic in a beermaking forum;
kit> (Trust me Mr moderator, This IS beer-Tech!)

kit>  I was able to get photocopies of the original rims article today,
kit> I owe Rodney Morris a beer if I ever meet him. Concerning your problem
kit> getting his temp controller circuit to run, I have two possible
kit> suggestions. Figure 1, MT1 is referred as a TRIAC in parts of the
kit> article, but is explained otherwise as a QUADRAC. 

Well, this is *really* strange since I have the circuit working
*exactly* as ina the article.  Are we referring to the same article,
1992 Gadgets Issue of Zymurgy?

dion

Dion Hollenbeck (619)675-4000x2814     Email: hollen at megatek.com
Staff Software Engineer     Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California

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Date: Thu, 18 Aug 1994 12:46:57 -0600 (MDT)
From: john keith hopp <jhopp at unm.edu>
Subject: Colo. Chillers(Coolers?); Scratch-n-sniff


A couple of nice replies on the Cooler issue:  
#I always thought it
#was some sort of Champagne - Beer with a citrus tone, particularly lime.  I
#have heard of people diluting wort with white grape juice, but don't know
#how this would turn out.  I wasn't brewing my own beer at that point, and
#did not know how to isolate flavors as much.

Same here, I was not a brewer at that time.  However, Celis has a similar 
sweet initial flavor, but the Chiller/Cooler finished with a 
champagne-like finish.  Anyway, further comments/suggestions on how to 
achieve such a beer/malt beverage are welcomed.  What about the grape 
juice addition?  

>From the "nuttier than presumed possible" column, SA has a 
scratch-n-sniff advertisement in Newsweek (where I saw it).  Yep, you 
scratch the little box and it smells like Hallertauer hops.  Imported 
Hallertauer hops.  Imported Hallertauer hops from this special region in 
Germany (see map).  If that weren't enough, Coors(tm) has an ad for its 
"Cutter" beer line, extolling its malty virtues (but no noticeable 
mentions of its lack of alcohol).  Nutty, eh?


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Date: Thu, 18 Aug 1994 16:01:22 -0700
From: Lowell Hart <lhart at CATI.CSUFresno.EDU>
Subject: Lautering & Gravity

Howdy,
I'm wondering how to deal with a small problem in lautering my beer.

My first all-grain batches had good extract, but low volume. I brought up
the volume by having more hot water handy for sparging.

My full-volume batches then had low gravity. I fixed this with a better crush
and better temperature control.

My recent batches have full volume and good gravity. I also seem to be 
leaving a lot of sugar on the grain. Tuesday after sparging  I got 7.5 gal
plus of 1.052 SG sweet wort. The last runnings were pretty sweet, so I got a
wild hair and ran about 4 gal. of hot tap water through the bed and out came
4 gal. of 1.020 sweet wort. Not wanting to waste this, I made small beer
on the hops & trub from the full batch. It boiled down to 1.031.

I'm happy with the full batch, but wonder if there is any way to get a better
concentration of sugars in the earlier runnings. I have the 8 gal. canning
pot for a boiler, so putting it all together and doing lots of boiling before
hopping is out due to limited space, both in the pot and in my small kitchen.
I've used earlier extra runnings for making yeast starters, but there's
only so much call for this.


The recipe was a porter (9 lbs. pale, 3.5 lbs. other grains) and was mashed/
lautered in my square picnic cooler tun with copper manifold. The full batch
boiled down to 1.057, just about where I wanted it.

Thanx fer the help.

Lowell Hart
San Joaquin WORThogs
Raketenflugplatz, Fresno
lhart at cati.CSUFresno.edu

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Date: Thu, 18 Aug 94 19:09:20 EDT
From: JohnNewYrk at aol.com
Subject: Weizens, Bananas and Esters

I just sampled a bottle of my first all-grain Weissbier, and it tastes a lot
(I mean A LOT) like bananas.  According to Warner's book on German Wheat
Beers, this is the result of an ester called iso-amyl acetate, and can be a
dominant flavor component in some weizens.  I was hoping for a more phenolic
spicy/clovelike flavor, so how do I reduce the esters in my brew?  

More wort aeration?? I admit I may not have properly aerated the wort at
pitching time. 

Lower fermentation temps?? I fermented at 69-74 degs, would 60-65 be better?
 

A higher pitching rate and shorter fermentation??  My fermentation was
unusually long, about 2 weeks.  

Is there something in the mash schedule or type of malt used that could
affect ester production??

I am going to brew the same recipe again, correcting what I see as the
possible culprits.  Any help or comments would be appreciated.


TIA,

John



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Date: Thu, 18 Aug 94 19:37:52 PDT
From: Lee Bollard <bollard at spk.hp.com>
Subject: Gott Mailorder Source

Several folks have mentioned having trouble locating a Gott 10 gallon
cooler.  I found a source for Gott water coolers in 2,3,5,7, and 10
gallon sizes.  The 10 gallon costs $41.50 (part #GFS3502). This price is
from the 1993 catalog, but it should be pretty close to the current
price.

International Reforestation Suppliers
800-321-1037
503-345-0597

They sell all sorts of forestry type products and have a nice catalog.

Regards,

Lee Bollard
bollard at spk.hp.com


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Date: 18 Aug 94 14:08:37 EDT
From: "Glenace L. Melton" <71242.2275 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Penetrating hop aroma

I have a darkroom and fridge, the freezing compartment of which is used
to store film and enlarging paper. Since I renewed my old homebrewing
hobby, I have been storing my frozen hops in the freezer also. *NOT* a
good idea! Recently I used some color negative film and the resulting
prints were so blue they could not be corrected. Factory packaged film
smells of hops when the package is opened, and still smells hoppy when
taken out of the camera. This means that the hop oils have diffused
through the plastic (low density polyethylene most likely) hop container,
through the larger snap-top plastic container I keep all the hops in,
through the large snap-top plastic container containing the film, and
through the factory packaging of the film, consisting of a cardboard box
and a sealed, inner aluminized envelope. I have tried wrapping the hops
containers in aluminum foil but that is a dubious protection, at best.
Short of buying another fridge and keeping my hops separate, perhaps in
another room, is there any material that is hop-oil-diffusion-proof?



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Date: Fri, 19 Aug 94 8:16:19 EDT
From: U-E68882-John Bloomberg <bloomberg_john at ae.ge.com>
Subject: aluminium...

In response to some of the Aluminum = Alzheimer's posts.

It is my understanding that the scientist that first 
reported this link has since rescinded his earlier report
and is embarrassed to ever had made it in the first place.

If anyone knows the specifics I would like to hear 'em.

- -----------

I'm in the midst of enjoying my latest batch, a porter, and
I have a question.  I used WYeast Irish Ale with an OG of
approx. 1.057 and I bottled using 1 cup+ of DME.  The level
of carbonation is quite low and I was wondering if it could
be due to the high attenuation I observed.  I can't remember
the FG off the top of my head but I think it was around 1.015.
Anyway, my thought is that the alcohol level is high enough 
to impeed further fermentation.  Is this likely?

John Bloomberg
bloomber at c0368.ae.ge.com

PS.  I only expected about 68% attenuation using the Irish 
     Ale yeast.

PPS. Anyone sending this message back to me pointing out spelling
     errors will be spanked with the latest vesion of Websters.



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Date: Fri, 19 Aug 1994 08:02:29 -0500
From: "Rick Thompson" <thompson at boba.mayo.edu>
Subject: Homebrew Digest Request

Subsription request

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Date: Fri, 19 Aug 1994 16:11:16 GMT
From: Matt Townsend <WHCMT at cf.ac.uk>
Subject: British Beer Festivals

Dear All

I have just compiled a list of all the CAMRA recognised beer
festivals throughout the UK this Fall/Autumn.

At the moment they total 30+ between now and the end of
October, so if anyone in the UK or about to visit the UK 
would like a copy of this list please e-mail me personally.

Happy supping

Matthew J Townsend
Townsend at Cardiff.ac.uk

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Date: Fri, 19 Aug 94 11:09:27 EDT
From: cjh at diaspar.HQ.ileaf.com (Chip Hitchcock)
Subject: re Al v Alzheimer's

This question keeps coming up. According to a story in DISCOVER several
months ago (I'm sure the info showed up a lot of places, but this is
where I read it), there is NO CONNECTION between aluminum and Alzheimer's.
It's not clear what went wrong with the earlier study, but an extremely
careful repeat showed no connection.

Of course, this doesn't say anything about the difference in flavor of
wort boiled in aluminum kettles. Aluminum is soft and fairly reactive,
especially with acid (suggesting that an aluminum keg or fermenting tank
would be a bad idea); I chose to look for stainless-steel pots at sales
rather than take this chance (the cheap stainless I found was also
better made than the aluminum---more secure handles, cf recent disaster
stories...). This is an obvious target for an experiment....

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Date: Fri, 19 Aug 94 09:56:04 EDT
From: Nancy.Renner at um.cc.umich.edu
Subject: Aluminum and Alzheimer's, again

 From *Jeff* Renner, who thinks he is his wife's computer, and is back from 
vacation. 
 
Darren Tyson is worried about using his new birthday aluminum pot and 
catching Alzheimer's disease from it.  As I have posted before, I 
investigated this to my satisfaction before investing $65 dollars in a 
really nice 40 qt., *5mm thick* aluminum (or aluminium for that lively 
down-under crowd) pot and lid.  Here is the dope as best as my protein 
entangled brain remembers it.  There was study perhaps ten or more years ago 
which seemed to show some correlation between aluminum and Alzheimer's.  It 
has not been confirmed in any subsequent studies, including follow-ups by 
the original team, and it is now considered to be a non-issue.  However, it 
has entered the realm of urban myth.  This was pointed up in an article in 
Discover Magazine (or maybe it was Science News) about two years ago (sorry, 
I don't have time to track this down).  The original researcher related that 
he was in Macy's admiring a set of originally expensive, professional 
quality aluminum cookware that was marked down to a ridiculously low price.  
As he was looking, the salesclerk said, in a confidential tone, "But you 
really don't want them.  They cause Alzheimer's, you know."  The researcher 
related his amusement, and even embarrassment, at his inability to stop what 
he has put into motion.  BTW, in his follow-up studies, the only way they 
could get aluminum past the blood-brain barrier (in rabbits) was with 
nasally inhaled aerosols of an aluminum solution, so I breathe through my 
mouth when I spray my pits, just to be sure. 
 
I really like my aluminum pot.  It's sturdy, has better heat conduction, and 
was much cheaper than SS.  I get a great rolling boil on my electric stove, 
and the hot break is much greater than with my old 33 qt. enamel.  The main 
reason that the commercial brewers don't use aluminum is that they use hot 
caustic for cleaning, which would ruin aluminum. 
 
Is there a neuro-biologist among us who can put to rest this canard, with 
citations? 
 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor

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Date: Fri, 19 Aug 1994 10:38:29 -0500
From: keithfrank at dow.com (R. Keith Frank, DCR&D, 409-238-9880)
Subject: Phoenix, AR - Brewpubs/Breweries?

I will be traveling to the Phoenix Ariz area soon 
and was wondering if anyone knows of any Brew Pubs 
or Micro Breweries in the area.  TIA.

Keith Zimmerman
c/o keithfrank at dow.com

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Date: Fri, 19 Aug 1994 12:13:16 -0400
From: portna at rpi.edu (Arturo Portnoy)
Subject: Re:Reusing Yeast / Minikegs



 	If I plan to "reuse" or culture yeast, how long can I keep it in a
sealed and sterile refrigerated container before it dies on me? And also, how
many times do I have to reuse the yeast strain before natural selection starts
yielding a more suited yeast to my environment?

 	By the way, thanks to all you people that responded to my queries
concerning the minikegs systems. If any of you have any comments about them, I
am still interested. So far I have heard very mixed opinions and I am still
undecided.

  						Arturo

  						portna at rpi.edu


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Date: Fri, 19 Aug 1994 10:38:39 -0600 (MDT)
From: COYOTE <SLK6P at cc.usu.edu>
Subject: Aluminum / Keg Blowoff

Greetings from behind the Zion Curtain

Again the damned Aluminum and Alzheimers topic is coming up.
I've spoken on this issue before, so I'll do it again.
 (sorry forgot to grap the posters name...)

>Aluminum pots and Alzheimer's:
For my birthday I have received a new 5-gallon aluminum pot for 
boiling my wort.  After reading posts on HBD about a possible link 
between aluminum and Alzheimer's I got ta thinkin' and a-worryin'.  
Does anyone have references to the above claims?  Should I try to 
return my aluminum pot and find an enamel-coated stainless steel pot?  
I don't want to return the pot if the above claims are unfounded 
(especially since I want to start a new batch soon!), but if the 
amount of aluminum that leeches into my wort is significant _and_ can 
cause health problems I don't want to risk it.  Please help me put my 
fears to rest.

**	Ok ok ok.  The connection between alzheimers and aluminum was
disproved a few years back.  I don't have any references, because I forgot
where I put them.  Wait a minute,  they were here somewhere.  Hold on-
is this my desk.  Whose computer is this.  Mary-  is that you Mary?
What was I saying.   Oh yeah....Alzheimers.  yeah that's it.

Aluminum in it's unoxidized state is a very reactive metal.  It is also
easily corroded by ....corrosive chemicals.  eg. chlorine- as in bleach.
Acids will also eat up aluminum.


BUT!!!!  Oxidized aluminum is much less reactive.  ANd for the relatively 
short times that semi-acidic beer wort is in contact with the metal should
not pose a problem.  The quality of the aluminum will also vary.
Those thin canning pots will not do as well as heavy cast aluminum.

Be it known: aluminum is COMMONLY used in the restaurant industry all across
America (and elsewhere).  It is quite cleanable, and a VERY good heat 
conductor.  (read: Better than stainless! - for heat.  Stainless is...well
more likely to be exactly that.  It won't get so dirty and is easier to clean)

If you've ever scrubbed a dirty aluminum pot you may have noticed the water
to take on a mettally- dirty look.  As the pot becomes shiny ans sparkling-
you've removed a layer of the metal.  This leaves you with a nice shiny-
unoxidized layer.   Subsequently using this pot may impart a mettallic taste
to the next effort.  Especially if you don't rinse well.


Simple Solution:  Don't scrub the damned pot down so much!  A light scraping 
with a green-plastic scrubby to remove the gritty bits from your ferment
should be adequate.  Leave the layer of brown goo behind.  It won't do you
next beer any harm and will leave a protective- unreactive oxidized layer
between your beer wort and your pot.   Rinse well.  Heat some wash water
is the pot before use again for brewing if you want to be extra careful.

Aluminum is FINE to use for beer use.  A lot of blanket statements have 
been made against the use of aluminum, but I for one think it's a load of
crap.  If you can afford stainless-  greeat.  Go for it!  Ceramic on steel
is FINE, as long as you don't chip the ceramic. Rusty steel WILL impart a
metallic taste A LOT quicker than any contribution by aluminum.  How many 
of you ceramic on steel users have managed to survive the test of time w/o
dinging your pots???????????  I know I get a bit sloppy in my brewing area.
That's why I'm in the garage!!!

I've been lucky enough to recently aquire a stainless pot with all kinds of
neat goodies. Haven't yet brewed with it, but I will next time.  Hopefully
it won't impart a greasy taste!!!  I've been using a LARGE 15 gal cast 
aluminum pot for many years now (also a thin aluminum canning pot) and have
not observed metallic tastes.  I just don't scrub 'em shiny!

The deal with alzheimers is that it CAUSES accumulation of aluminum, not the
other way around (direct quote from my wife, she knows these things!  :) 

So-   Just brew dammit!  (in Eddie Murphy's best Gumby voice)

***
Dion had some things to say about keg blowoff tubes getting clogged not being
a cause for worry since the keg's safety margin is very high (130 psi) and the
keg won't blowup the way a clogged glass carboy can.

I'd like to add another source of caution and/or worry.

If a vessel clogs and builds up lots of pressure which is then released at 
one time, the beer will foam.  And then the beer may foam some more.
It could even foam more after that.  And if enough pressure it could still-
 -you guessed it- foam some more.   This could lead to large amounts of 
beer spewage.  i.e., loss of potential homebrew.  Plus a big mess.

Now- I may not have had this happen in a keg, but silly as I am, I've had it
happen in a glass fermenter. (duoh!   Giiiiilligaaaaaaaaan !!!! )  My first
ferment in the new house I did an extract with dry yeast (yes you heard me 
right!) and it was kinda slow in starting. I looked in the basement as it
had raised a krausen head.  A bit of foam/bubbles had splurted into the
airlock, but I wasn't worried, so I grabbed a bottle of mead from the wine
storage racks and headed up from the basement.  As this was a busy time of
moving in/ LOTS of gardening work...etc...etc...  I didn't check on it until
after a whole day had passed.  (bad idea!  Always keep close contact with your
young ferments!)

Well, suffice it to say-  it was a good thing it was in the basement
(not the kitchen!) and good thing there is a drain in the basement floor.
As I say I was not there to observe the event, but I can surmise that pressure
built up in the carboy as krausen scum blocked the airlock- which happened
to be fit rather tightly.  After adequate pressure had built the airlock
took to orbit (judging by the fact that it was WAAAAAY across the room)
and following after it came a mountain of beer foam. THe foam raged on until
half of my 5 gallon carboy had emptied itself into the bucket it was held in.
The initial explosion sent spewage a good 5 feet in all directions.

Luck, and a good solid  ACME brand carboy (made in mexico) allowed me to
continue walking barefoot in the basement.  But great dismay and beer loss
resulted.  Not a good thing!

I also experienced another form of spewage during the last brew.
I sparged my wort, and set my 4 gallon -ceramic on steel, with chips- pot on
the Coyote cooker and CRANKED THAT PUPPY UP!  I set the lid atop the pot.
Now the problem.  I walked away.  Got busy cleaning the grease from that 
stainless pot until my wife called me into the garage to clean up the wort 
that was boiling over and flowing across the floor!
Two gallons of first runnings.  Ugh!!!  

So:  Lessons learned YET AGAIN!!!!   

	Always use a blowoff tube.
	Check new ferments FREQUENTLY until after high krausen
	Don't leave a pot of wort unattended until a steady boil is reached.
  A watched pot may never boil, but an unwatched pot will ALWAYs boil over!
  Oh- and Aluminum pots are fine for use. It won't cause alzheimers or mettalic
  tastes in beer. Just don't expose fresh layers of aluminum by scrubbing.

Lessons of the day,  Deep thoughts from the Cosmic Coyote Brewery.

		As they say in golf- we're all subject to hazards.


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Date: Fri, 19 Aug 1994 10:28:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dodger Posey <dodger at quack.kfu.com>
Subject: Raspberry Wheat Recipe Error

Just a note in regards to my JazzBerry Juice Recipe from 
yesterdays HBD.  A procedural error....

Before adding the LME to the boiling pot, be sure to remove
the grain bag which contains the Wheat Malt that was steeping
for an hour. Pour 2 cups or so of water over the bag to rinse
the good stuff back into the pot.  

Might have been obvious to an experienced brewer, but I'd hate
to make difficult a brew session by a less experienced person.

Dodger Posey
dodger at quack.kfu.com


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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1507, 08/22/94