FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Re: Yeast popsicles (John McCaskill)
  IBU vs HBU (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  Trub removal. (Jay Lonner)
  Temperature Controllers ("Anderso_A")
  ciders (uswlsrap)
  Dryhopping w/pellets --> CO2 ? (Joe McCarthy)
  Zappap underletting / Airlock leaking in wort ("Lee A. Menegoni")
  St. Louis BrewPubs (Dwight Wolfe)
  Levity, anecdotes, thank-yous (CLAY)
  An interesting source for pumps (Richard A Childers)
  worthless posts from lazy brewers (Art Steinmetz)
  Autumn/Weather/Cleveland (Bill Rust)
  Re: efficient loitering (Kelvin Kapteyn)
  Big Batches, internet access, & goodbyes (Al Folsom)
  Benefits of Blow off Hose (Terry Terfinko)
  Carboy Carriers (Guy Mason)
  Kegging gases summary (Matt_K)
  carboy breaks (Spencer.W.Thomas)
  Final Word on Sierra Nevada Yeast! (Patrick Casey)
  Brew kettles (Matt_K)
  Re: Geometry (Jim Busch)
  Braukunst Home Brewing???? (Tim Murray)
  Carbouy Stories (Schwab_Bryan)
  Light bulb as heat source (Hal Laurent)
  Re:  wheat beer follies ("Glen A. Wagnecz, X6616")
  Brewery Tour, etc. (npyle)
   (LKAMPF)
  Drying hops in the sun? (Glenn Anderson)



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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Mon, 12 Sep 94 12:54:25 CDT
From: jhm at texmemsys.com (John McCaskill)
Subject: Re: Yeast popsicles

In regards to frozen yeast.  One of my friends just started homebrewing,
and he froze his package of Wyeast for a day. I told him to thaw it
out and see if it would start.  It did, and the beer came out fine.

However, I don't know what sort of long term effect that would have
on yeast you are going to propogate.

John McCaskill

Home	mccask at mccaskill.com
Work	jhm at texmemsys.com

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Date: 12 Sep 94 18:58:00 GMT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: IBU vs HBU


A couple of weeks ago (sorry), Paul wrote:
>Isn't HBU's and IBU's the same measurement?
> 
>In Paps book it seems the same. If I have a recipe that calls for 5 HBU's of
>a particular hop type, isn't it the same as 5 IBU's
> 
>Example: 1oz Fuggles 5 HBU = 1oz Fuggles 5% alpha IBU

No, they are not the same.  Papazian's HBU is the same as Line's AAU, which
has also been used by Miller.  Your example is right, except for the "IBU"
at the end.  There are two disadvantages to using HBUs or AAUs in a recipe:
1. you must state the batch size and 2. it does not account for different
brewers' hop utilization (one brewer might get 27% utilization from a 60
minute boil, another might get only 20%) -- it depends on your system and
process.

IBUs are a measure of the isomerized alpha acids in the finished beer.  They
are independent of the batch size.  1 IBU is approximately 1 mg/liter of
isomerized alpha acids.  There are also two snags to using IBUs in recipes:
1. the recipe writer had better be using an accurate formula (or measuring)
the IBUs he/she is getting and 2. the recipe user had better be using an
accurate formula for estimating IBUs in their beer based upon hop additions.

For example, in my system, with my process, 1.5 ounces of 4%AA hops boiled
60 minutes gives approximately 25 IBUs in the finished beer after all the
fermentation losses.

There is an article by Jackie Rager in the Hops Special Issue of Zymurgy
in which he gives some formulas for estimating the IBUs you get in the
finished beer hased upon boil time, boil gravity, etc.  I have used these
formulas with great success with two modifications.  I use 10% more hops
than the formulas recommend if I use a hop bag (which is always) and I use
10% more again if I use whole hops in stead of pellets.  [Please note that
there is an error (sheesh!) in one of the formulas.  GA, the gravity
adjustment, should have been:

            (BG - 1.050)
    GA  =  --------------        where BG is the boil gravity.]
                0.2

There is a device called a Hop-Go-Round, developed by Randy Mosher, which
is basically a circular slide rule, calibrated for calculating IBUs.  In
my experience, the front side of the device works great and I use it all the
time, but the percent utilizations on the back, I feel, are overly optimistic.
Therefore, I have superimposed Rager's percent utlizations onto the charts
on the back of the Hop-Go-Round and use them in place of the original ones.

I've read Mark Garetz's book on hops and have run some numbers through his
formulas.  I have found them to be off by a large amount, sometimes suggesting
nearly *double* the rate of *proven* recipes.

Al.

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Date: Mon, 12 Sep 1994 12:52:10 -0800 (PST)
From: Jay Lonner <8635660 at NESSIE.CC.WWU.EDU>
Subject: Trub removal.

Hi,

I need trub help.  Nothing I do seems to get rid of it, short of racking to
another vessel.  Yesterday's brew was the worst yet -- a barleywine
(partial-mash, full boil) that is probably 40% trub!  This was a very expensive
beer to make, and it annoys me to no end that I'll end up tossing such a large
quantity of it.  I use an immersion chiller, whole hops, and the copper
scrubby/nylon mesh combo on the bottom of my racking cane.  This does a fine
job of filtering hops, but not trub.  My books say that commercial breweries
use whirlpool action to separate the wort from the trub, but this is beyond my
capabilities.  These are the alternatives that I am considering:

1.  Let the beer sit in the boiler for a solid hour prior to racking to a
fermenter.  This might let more trub settle out.  But since I use an uncovered
boiler I am concerned about exposing my cooled wort to the open air for such a
long time -- sounds like inviting an infection.  Plus there's still the problem
of getting that last drop of sweet wort from the sludge at the bottom of the
boiler.

2.  Buy a filter and filter the stuff while racking to the fermenter.  I don't
like this idea because it's expensive and may filter out more stuff than is
desirable.

3.  Start using a hop-back.  This might work OK.  But it's my understanding
that one usually uses a hop-back with hot wort, and what I envision is running
my cooled wort through the hop-back while siphoning it to the fermenter.  Might
my beer pick up a hop aroma, or does that only work with hot wort?

I'm not particularly excited about any of these options, but I really feel like
I need to do something to address this problem.  Any comments on the above
options, or alternative suggestions, would be greatly appreciated.

Jay.

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Date: 12 Sep 94 13:25:00 EST
From: "Anderso_A" <Anderso_A at hq.navsea.navy.mil>
Subject: Temperature Controllers

Message Creation Date was at 12-SEP-1994 13:25:00
      
          Greetings,
               I'm not a lazy brewer, but I'm an extremely lazy
          engineer - not to mention one step from incompetent when it
          comes to EE.  With that preamble out of the way, on to my
          question.
               I'll be moving on to England within the month and
          Uncle Sam will pay for all my moving expenses.  I plan on
          sending a brewing fridge over since I've been assured it
          will work on the big, hefty transformer.  I have not
          procurred a temperature controller at this time, so I'm
          hurriedly looking for one.  Will the power frequency shift
          from 60 Hz (US) to 50 Hz (UK) cause screw-ups on a
          temperature controller?  i.e. a clock won't keep correct
          time, will a temp. controller function correctly?  Is this a
          situation where I'm supposed to pay attention to "analog"
          vs. "digital"? If there is a difference, will it be linear
          so that I can recalibrate the system?  Do any UK brewers
          know of a readily available UK temperature controller?
               Thank-you, and now back to your regularly scheduled
          program debating the merits of lazy, incompetent brewers.

          Cheers,
          Andy A


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Date: Mon, 12 Sep 94 16:17:35 EDT
From: uswlsrap at ibmmail.com
Subject: ciders                                                           

- ----------------------- Mail item text follows ---------------

To: I1010141--IBMMAIL

From: Bob Paolino
      Research Analyst
Subject: ciders

I've answered (by email) a couple of the questions from new cider-makers
and offered some basic information, but I'm no expert and have a
question of my own. I've been pleased with most of the ciders I've done,
but I never end up with a well-packed sediment. Let's just say that I
won't be shipping any to competitions because it would never arrive in
the beautiful sparkling clear condition in which I enjoy it when I
consume it at home.

I've used different yeasts and they all end up that way. In all other
respects, I've had the best results with Edme dry ale yeast (I like 'em
very dry--is FG=.990 dry enough for you?) used Champagne yeast and even
slurry from the primary if I do the cider shortly after racking a beer.

Any informed suggestions? Might it be not so much a yeast problem but
that it needs to be racked still another time before bottling to reduce
the sediment from the apples??

Email is fine unless you think it's of general interest. I'll summarise
and pass on anything interesting.

TIA

Bob Paolino
Disoriented in Badgerspace

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Date: Mon, 12 Sep 1994 16:35:08 -0400
From: Joe McCarthy <jmccarth at stimpy.cs.umass.edu>
Subject: Dryhopping w/pellets --> CO2 ?

I have dryhopped two recent batches of beer: 1 ounce of East Kent
Goldings added to a bitter, and 3 ounces of Cascades added to a
barleywine.  In the first case, I waited for about a week after
racking, and when the fermentation seemed pretty near done (one bubble
in the S-lock every several minutes), I added the hops.  This started
a reaction in which the dissolved hops started to expand up into the
neck of my carboy.  In a rather messy operation, I sanitized my turkey
baster and suctioned out about 12 ounces of liquid so that there would
be enough room.  I also tried to "brush" some of the hop residue from
the lip of the carboy back into the wort with a sanitized toothbrush.
I resanitized the stopper & airlock and put them back on.  The
activity in the airlock increased to several bubbles per minute, and
stayed at that level for a week.  I thought that maybe I had a wild
yeast infection, but the SG reading showed no change.  My local
brewing supply store person suggested that maybe the yeast had gone
into autolysis, so I reracked into another carboy, and the activity in
the airlock subsided.  I bottled this beer, and I can't taste any
infection, and am not sure that I would know that autolysis effects
taste like -- it tastes fine to me.

Last month, I added 3 ounces of Cascade pellets to a barleywine that
had fermented from 1.090 down to 1.032 after five days in primary, and
had been sitting in secondary for about 3 weeks.  To reduce the
potential for autolysis, I placed the pellets at the bottom of a
second carboy, and reracked into that carboy (SG was still 1.032).
Once again, the activity picked up from one bubble every several
minutes to several bubbles per minute, and stayed there for a week.
Since I had seen a post by Al Korzonas recommending a dryhop period of
one week, I decided to rerack after a week (SG was now 1.031), and the
activity after reracking slowed down to about one bubble every one to
two minutes.  I don't know how it will eventually taste, but the
sample I drew for a gravity reading tasted quite good.

Can anyone tell me what has been happening?  Do pelletized hops emit
CO2 when they are added to wort?  Is it odd for this to continue at a
rather constant rate (~ 4 bubbles per second in a 5-gallon carboy) for
a week?

Thanks, in advance, for any insights.

Joe.

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Date: Mon, 12 Sep 94 16:40:58 EDT
From: "Lee A. Menegoni" <lmenegoni at nectech.com>
Subject: Zappap underletting / Airlock leaking in wort

RE:  Airlocks leaking back in to the wort.
I always use liquor like gin, rum or vodka in my sanitized air locks.  
If some does drip into the wort in the 24 hours or so after pitching I 
don't have to worry about contamination. 

I used to use a bucket in bucket system for sparging,  I have since 
modified it twice.  Now it is an insulated mash/lauter tun with false 
bottom and manifold.  My extraction hasn't improved much but I have reduced 
the brewing time by mashing and sparging in a single tun.

Modification 1, reduce height of false bottom above outlet spigot so it is 
about 1 inch, increase the capacity and insulate :
The primary benefits of this was less wort recirculation to get it to run 
clear and I didn't have to heat up an additional 2 gallons of water to 
float the grain bed, the increase in capacity allowed me to handle 14 lbs 
of grain and the insulation maintained the grain bed temperature.

Basically what I did here was to cut the bottom of the inner bucket off and 
put it in the bucket upside down.  I removed enough material from the side 
to avoid contact with the spigot and slotted the sides so the unit was 
flexible. 

Measure the height from the bottom of the bucket to the top of the outlet 
spigot.  Cut off the false bottom of the inner bucket the measured height 
from the bottom.  Measure the width of the spigot inside the bucket, remove 
this much material from the side of the just cut off false bottom.
Slot the sides every couple inches.  You may want to attach a piece of 
copper wire so you can remove the bottom for cleaning.  Insert the piece 
bottom side up with the cut out side section over the spigot. 

Increase tun capacity:  All I did here was to apply some food grade sealant 
to the outside of the inner bucket, that had its perforated bottom cut off 
above, and slide this into the bucket with spigot. 

Insulate tun:  I wrapped the buckets with bubble wrap and duct tape,  This
helps maintain the grain bed temperature while sparging.
 
Modification 2:
Remove replace perforated bottom with a manifold. 
The primary benefits here were an even furter reduction in amount of liquid 
needed to recirculate.  This also proved to be a good tun for mashing.

I had about 8 feet of 3/8"OD soft copper tubing left over from making a 
wort chiller.  I hammered one end shut and shaped the rest into a coil and 
drilled 1/16" holes in the bottom.  I fed the output end into a rubber 
stopper which I inserted into the inlet of the spigot.  I then cut along 
the inside diameter of the perforated bottom and removed enough material to 
get around the stopper.  I use this not so much as a false bottom but more 
as a protection device for the manifold since I use this vessel as a mash 
and lauter tun.  To do an Iodine test I just draw off some liquid from the 
spigot, after stirring up the mash.           

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Date: Mon, 12 Sep 94 16:29:47 PDT
From: Dwight Wolfe <dwolfe at wev.twc.com>
Subject: St. Louis BrewPubs

Does anyone have names of any brewpubs in St. Louis.  
If you will e-mail me, I will compile a list and after a visit to 
each, publish the results.
- -------------------------------------
Name: Dwight Wolfe
E-mail: dwolfe at wev.twc.com (Dwight Wolfe)
- -------------------------------------



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Date: Mon, 12 Sep 1994 18:29:44 -0500 (EST)
From: CLAY at prism.clemson.edu
Subject: Levity, anecdotes, thank-yous


1) Thanks to all who responded to my earlier question about mead.  I bottled
it yesterday.  Tasted like a rather flinty Chablis with floral rather than 
earthy overtones.  Several folks have said that this is normal and that
aging will refine the flavor.  

2) Thanks to all who posted regarding thermostats, etc.  I installed a 
"Cool Jack" in the fridge and it works fine.  I ran the power cords in
through the drain hole and so did not have to drill through the walls.
based on one batch, this is gonna be great!  Cost was <$30.00 including
the parts for the cords.

3) The quality of the HBD does not suffer from leavening with humor, 
anecdotes, witticisms, and tales of exploding bottles, broken carboys, 
or questions from newbies like me.  

4) "...don't let the cyberdoor catch you in the [sanctimonious] cyberbutt."

5) It's cholera you get from dirty ice cubes, John.  You get typhus from 
louse feces (epidemic typhus, caused by Rickettsia prowazeki) or from
the bites of rat fleas (R. typhi).  You just burned up your free opinion
outside of your area of expertise.  Perhaps you should have looked up a 
local entomologist before posting.  Perhaps you see my point...

Regards to all,
C.C. Lay
just a possum on the information superhighway...

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Date: Mon, 12 Sep 1994 17:27:01 -0700
From: pascal at netcom.com (Richard A Childers)
Subject: An interesting source for pumps


I was messing around with my windshield wipers this weekend, and I just
happened to notice that the little 12 VDC pump used to pump spray onto
the windshield looks like a pretty good way to pump liquid around.

I don't know if it would be suitable for pumping food-grade materials
about ( I have to buy a few from a scrap yard and take one apart before
I can say more ), but maybe looking at it might give me an idea for how
to retrofit it to pump food-grade liquids safely. For instance, it
seems to pump in spurts, rather than steadily, so it might well be what
is called a "peristaltic" pump, and therefore retrofittable to food-grade
purposes.

Even if not suitable for pumping alcoholic beverages directly, it might
still be suitable for pumping cooled water through cooling coils after
brewing up a batch of ale ... or making a pretty cool solar-powered
ditch pump, a la Doc Atomic ...		(-:


- -- richard

                 Law : The science of assigning responsibility.
              Politics : The art of _distributing_ responsibility.

   richard childers        san francisco, california        pascal at netcom.com



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Date: Mon, 12 Sep 1994 21:11:57 -0400
From: Art Steinmetz <asteinm at pipeline.com>
Subject: worthless posts from lazy brewers

BREWS at delphi.com sez rookies should stop 
 
  >wasting our time here with boorish questions over and      >over again 
 
Bruce is being overly harsh.  The HBD is a great source for more technical
information but it is also virtual club for a good many brewers.  I
wouldn't want to discourage people from asking questions.  Most folks
observe the local customs and provide a synopsis of the private replies
they've received.  The situation isn't perfect; in most cases people don't
need to give chapter and verse of their brewing day - a shorter post would
do.  Also rec.crafts.brewing (which I don't read) might be a better place
for newbie questions but I recognize that internet access for many might be
limited to e-mail. 
 
So to the rookies: don't be intimidated by the august personnages herein. 
To Bruce: RWDWHAHB.

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Date: Mon, 12 Sep 94 18:11:00 -0640
From: bill.rust at travel.com (Bill Rust)
Subject: Autumn/Weather/Cleveland


Greetings Brewers,

Ah, the fall is nearly upon us, and the serious volume brewing can commence.
Is it just me, or does everyone have at least two batches put down for
Octoberfest?  I have a couple of friends who are starting brewing.  They want
try to get theirs done by then too.  Looks like I'll have plenty of sampling
to do.

What happened while I was gone to Cleveland??  I leave for one stinking week
and all heck breaks loose!  BTW, Bruce P. Stevens, the HBD is a forum, which
according to the Oxford American Dictionary is "...a place or meeting where
PUBLIC discussion is held."  If you're not hip to people practicing their
First amendment rights, consider this... "IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE WEATHER,
MOVE!"

On to bigger and better things.  On the advice of several kind people with
regards to pubs in the Cleveland area, I thought it would be cool to include a
trip to the Great Lakes Brewing Co. in my itinerary.  Now that I have returned
(Lance, a brewer of fine fruit beers, and Kelly, a brewer of fine fruit meads,
are now happily wed.  They are a cute, albeit fruity, couple), I can revise my
earlier assessment; it was very cool!  Good beer (I recommend the Dortmunder
and Wit) and good food.  I even saw the bullet holes that Elliot Ness left in
their bar!

On the subject of partial mashing.  I just kegged my first batch of Dortmunder
made with a converted Igloo 5 gallon mash/lauter tun (fitted with a 9 inch
Phil's Phalse bottom).  I couldn't resist an early sample.  Phantastic!  I
would love to go on, but I have some brown ale to brew (I'm not afraid of the
dark).

P.S.  Can brewing beer really help you score with the Babes??

+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Busy, curious, thirsty fly,                |      BILL RUST       |
| Drink with me, and drink as I.             |   Systems Analyst    |
|                                            |                      |
| WILLIAM OLDYS  1696-1761                   |     Shiloh, IL       |
| On a Fly Drinking Out of a Cup of Ale, St. | bill.rust at travel.com |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
- ---
 ~ SPEED 1.40 #1651 ~ Jazz is not dead, it just smells funny. - FRANK ZAPPA


 --------------------------------------------------------------
 This message originated at....
   -> Internet Address: Bill Rust at travel.com
 --------------------------------------------------------------
 TRAVEL ONLINE / ST. LOUIS ONLINE ....
   81,000+ files, 2,500+ conferences, 110 online game doors,
   9 node (256 channel) live chat, Weathercom (tm) national
   weather forecasts/data, direct satellite linked network.
   St. Louis: (314) 561-4956 / St. Charles/GTE: (314) 625-4045
 --------------------------------------------------------------

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Date: Mon, 12 Sep 94 22:35:17 EDT
From: Kelvin Kapteyn <kelvink at mtu.edu>
Subject: Re: efficient loitering

OK, since Spencer caught it, I couldn't resist:  :-)

>Spencer writes:
>Ulick writes
>> rice hulls are just creating channels and preventing efficient loitering.

>Usually when I want to loiter efficiently, I use cappuccino. For one
>thing, it tastes better than rice hulls :-)

My thought was that rice hulls might make a good laxative (lots of bran,
you know!)  Should make for very INefficient loitering I would think, even
if they create channels!  :-)


Now, back to our regularily scheduled broadcast!  I hope the humor is
worth the bandwidth.  I think we could use some to cool the flames lately.

One additional comment about the suggestion to consult with locals and
HB shop owners.  We have seen a number of HBD people getting some
pretty silly advice from HB shops.  My recommendation is to check the books,
and try to figure out if your local shop or homebrew club has people with
ACCURATE knowledge.  Also, read the FAQ (described in the header of every
HBD.)  An awful lot of the questions posted to the HBD are already answered
there.

Proost!  (no, it's not German!)

 -Kelvin

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Date: Tue, 13 Sep 94 09:02:28 -0400
From: Al Folsom <folsom at fp.com>
Subject: Big Batches, internet access, & goodbyes 

Hello fellow brewers:

Friday will be my last day at this job, and my internet access turns
into a pumpkin.  Maybe I can sneak in a few questions before then.

First, does anyone have any experience with either delphi or interramp,
or any other company providing personnal internet access?  I can't
face the morning without either Homebrew or HBD ;-(

Next, this past Sunday I brewed up the Slumgullian Amber Ale from a 
couple of issues of Zymurgy ago.  No problem, and the  sweet wort
tasted pretty good.  The only concern was the recipe was for 6 1/2
gallons, and although I do have a 6 1/2 gal carboy, I do my primary
fermenting in plastic, and have no way to handle the blowoff when 
using it as a primary.  Casting around for something to ferment in, 
I happened upon one of those squat plastic fermenters usually used 
for wine, which seemed to hold about 7 1/2 gals.  This morning when
I went down to the basement to commune with my yeast, I discovered the
top had blown completely off, and was sitting on the floor next to
the fermenter, which had a lovely kreusen on the fermenting wort ;-)
Well, I panicked.  I quickly cleaned the lid, and scooped off a little
bit of the top of the kreusen, and put the lid back on.  My plan is 
to rack to a secondary before the kreusen falls back down, hoping 
that it will protect the beer a bit.  Any chance I can salvage this
brew?

What DO people use to ferment these batches listed as 6 1/2 gallons?
Yeah, I know I can go build some monstrosity out of steel kegs or
whatnot, but I'd like to find something as simple as plastic, with
enough room for all the activity.

Thanks in advance, helpful homebrewers.  If you can't respond by Friday,
thanks anyway, and I shall return as soon I purchase a decent modem 
and fork money over to someone or another for internet access.

+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Al Folsom                 | Object Oriented Programming?  We've   |
| Fischer & Porter Co.      | been doing that for years...          |
| folsom at fp.com             |                                       |
| also uunet!bigmax!folsom  | When the customer objects to the way  |
| KY3T at WA3TSW (Ham)         | it works, we go program some more!    |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+


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Date: Tue, 13 Sep 94 9:14:15 EDT
From: terfintt at ttown.apci.com (Terry Terfinko)
Subject: Benefits of Blow off Hose

     I have been using a 7.5 gallon glass carboy for fermenting and since 
there is adequate headroom, I do not use a blow off hose.  I simply place 
an air lock on.  Some recent articles on HBD have made me reconsider.  
In particular,  the value of blowing off unwanted residue.  I have recently 
switched to a counter flow chiller and was a bit concerned about the cold 
break remaining in the fermenter, although this has not created any 
problems, a recent article hinted that the blow off may remove some of 
this.
     Does the blow off hose really remove enough unwanted residue to be 
of value?  Certainly CO2 removal can be done via the airlock if the 
fermenter is large enough.

Terry Terfinko - terfintt at ttown.apci.com


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Date: Tue, 13 Sep 1994 09:15:02 +22305931 (EDT)
From: gam at beluga.must.com (Guy Mason)
Subject: Carboy Carriers

Greetings Fellow Brewers,

Lotsa bandwidth has been dedicated to crashing carboys of late and I would
like to hear from people who use carboy carriers.  The carrier fits around
the neck of the carboy and has a handle attached.  Everything is coated
the rubber, so it's non-slip.  I've read every book, magazine, and HBD
that I could find and none of my brew buddies could think of a reason
not to use it.  I guess my concern is about stress on the carboy neck
when carrying it.
                                _ _ 
                                O O
/---------------------------uuu--U--uuu---------------------------\
|   			     Guy Mason                            |
|   		    MUST Software International                   |
|                      E-mail : gam at must.com                      |
| The beer I had for breakfast was good, so I had another for     |
| dessert.                                                        |
\-----------------------------------------------------------------/

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Date: Tue, 13 Sep 94 09:48:00 edt
From: Matt_K at ceo.sts-systems.ca
Subject: Kegging gases summary

Message:
I would like to thank those who replied to my inquiry about CO2 vs. 
other "Beer mix" gases several days ago.  
 
The bottom line from the replies was to stick to CO2 unless you are 
pushing pre-carbonated beer through long lines.  Also, regular grade 
CO2 is fine.  No need to use scientific grade.  
 
Re. filling cylinders:  Buy cheap ones (make sure they don't need a 
hydro) because most places just exchange them instead of refilling.  
Good places to try are any place that fills CO2 fire extinguishers, 
welding supply houses, etc.
 
Hope this helps someone else.
 
Matt Koch
Matt_k at ceo.sts.systems.ca



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Date: Tue, 13 Sep 94 09:54:09 EDT
From: Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu
Subject: carboy breaks

My "solution" to the breaking carboy problem is this: each carboy
lives in a plastic "milk crate".  Thus, I've got handles to lift it
by, it's padded by the crate when I set it down, the crate is much
less likely to slip out of my hands when it's wet, and so on.  I do
still remove the carboy from the crate when I'm washing it in the
laundry tub, but it's never full of liquid at that point, reducing the
likelihood of dropping it.

=Spencer in Ann Arbor, MI

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Date: Mon, 12 Sep 94 16:33:36 EDT
From: pacasey at lexmark.com (Patrick Casey)
Subject: Final Word on Sierra Nevada Yeast!

Well, not really -- just wanted to get your attention.  About Wyeast
1056 (not) being the real Sierra Nevada yeast:

I made it to the brewery last Wednesday, and took the tour.  I didn't
ask the guide directly "Is your yeast the same as Wyeast 1056?" mainly
because I doubted she'd know (she kept talking about CO2 "excaping"
and "sweet wart").  She mentioned that they re-use yeast for about 3
months (I think), and then get fresh slants from "the yeast bank out
east".  When I asked who, specifically, this yeast bank was, she said
she didn't know -- just that they always called it "the yeast bank".

So any ideas who "the yeast bank out east" is?  Siebel? 

Maybe it boils down to Wyeast culturing the yeast several years ago,
and there being differences from that.  Although if both "the yeast
bank" and Wyeast took care of the yeast, they should be the same.  Or
it could be that sitting in the bottle for ~a month changes the yeasts
character enough...

I'm not sure if I'm convinced that homebrewers (myself included)
without access to a lab and precision equipment could say one way or
the other whether it's the exact same yeast...  People say "X is a
completely different yeast from Y" but I wonder if the difference they
notice could be due to fermentation temp., water variation, yeast
health, particular malts used, varying aeration, etc. (you get the
picture -- there are just too many variables).

Any ideas?

 - Patrick

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Date: Tue, 13 Sep 94 10:12:56 edt
From: Matt_K at ceo.sts-systems.ca
Subject: Brew kettles

Message:
I just did my first all grain brew and the need for a decent brew 
kettle has become crystal clear.  Waiting for a 20l kettle to boil on 
an electric stove is like watching the grass grow.  
I have a 50l keg sitting in my basement waiting to have it's top 
chopped off so I can use it to boil my wort in.  The only problem is 
that in the great white north (Montreal) it's not too much fun 
boiling stuff outside when it's -20 degrees and snowing and, from 
what I can tell, using billion BTU propane burners in the basement is 
not recommended (besides this is one of those kegs with the plastic 
covered top and bottom).  So, the sensible solution is to heat this 
baby electrically using water heater elements.  Is this a viable 
solution?  There is some stuff about electrifying a keg in the all 
grain FAQ but there was no info re the actual installation of the 
elements etc.  
Am I on the right track here?  Should I worry about scorching the 
wort?  Would it be better to use one monster element or two smaller 
ones?  TIA for any help.
Matt Koch
Matt_k at ceo.sts.systems.ca



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Date: Tue, 13 Sep 1994 10:28:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: Re: Geometry

Anton writes:

> It sure got me to thinking about replacing my glass carboys with Polycarbonate
> or HDPE (High Density Poly Ethylene).  I know the difficulties of sanitizing
> plastics but that much glass is too dangerous.  Does anyone have a good
> source?

You can buy HDPE food grade trash cans in various HW stores and other
outlets.  If you use a "quaternary" based sanitizer, it is easier to
be sure of sanitizing hard to get to places.  Our local German brew pub
uses Vigiquat.  THe drawback of this stuff is it requires a lot of 
rinsing to remove the intense sanitizer aroma. 

RE: geometry of kettles and fermenters.  

One can fabricate a box SS vessal for a tun or kettle.  IT wont 
be as good as a restaurant grade SS pot, but it could work fine.  Using
this as fermenter could pose problems.  The welds would need to be 
highly polished so that they can be properly cleaned and sanitized. 
This is a very important consideration.  When having something like
this made, it is better to use a rounded bottom, so the weld is on the
side of the kettle, leaving a smooth rounded interface between the
bottom and sides.  

Good brewing,

Jim Busch

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Date:         Tue, 13 Sep 94 07:24:14 PDT
From: Tim Murray <MURRAYT at WSUVM1.CSC.WSU.EDU>
Subject:      Braukunst Home Brewing????

Almost three weeks ago I faxed an order for miscellaneous keg parts to
Braukunst Home Brewing (Carlton, MN).  After a couple of weeks I called to
check on my order only to find their 800 number had been disconnected.  So
I called the other number, the one with the imitation of Jack Nicholson
answering, and left a message (that was Saturday).  So far no reply.  I have
tried again to call the 800 number with the same result.

Can anybody confirm whether this place is still in business or not?

Tim Murray

"I can't sleep at night worrying
everything might be all right"    - Joe Walsh

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Date: Tue, 13 Sep 94 10:11:00 CST
From: Schwab_Bryan at lanmail.ncsc.navy.mil
Subject: Carbouy Stories

In response to Jerry Cunningham's request in HBD #1525, I submit this 
for all of your entertainment needs.
This past July 15th will never be forgotten, while in the process of 
bottling and Pigging it, the worst of worst happened to me.  Well it 
possibly would not have happened, had my thoughts and concentration been 
on what I was doing, instaed of of on my ex-wife and picking up the 
kiddies from their visitation with her.  Anyway, I positioned the glass 
carbouy on the kitchen counter, carefully proped up the side and sat 
down cross legged on the floor beneath the counter, with siphon tube in 
hand.  No problem here.  Filled one, two bottles, and all is going 
great! **** ex wife, she has done it again, filled the kiddies with 
thoughts of why they would be better off with her, etc. etc. etc., gotta 
get those thoughts out of my mind!!, when all of a sudden, crash, bam, 
boom, Pain, Pain, ah ****!  my eyes open to red.  Red blood everywhere.  
where is it comming from.  My leggs are covered in it.  My arms and 
hands are covered in, it is even dripping from the ceiling!!  Blood 
everywhere, glass everywhere, glass between my leggs.  How am I going to 
get up, surely my leggs are cut up?  Ah **** Bryan now you went and did 
it.  No problem about future brother and sisters for the kiddies now!!  
Ok, Ok lets not panic here, lets try and get to the phone and call for 
some help, right, wrong!  Each time we put pressure on the old hands to 
either grab something or push off from, pain like none ever experienced 
before.  Well I finally struggle and get to the phone, call my seventy-
five yr. old father who luckily lives just the road from me, and let him 
know that I need help, real fast like! Then I call my son at his mothers 
to let him know that I wont be picking him up for some time ( Quote- get 
off the phone Dad, ang get your silly butt to the hospital, don't worry 
about mom, she'll have to just get over it. unquote)  So, I do not know 
how much time has elasped here,but I am getting real cold and tired of 
slipping on broken glass and blood.  Hell, wrestling with the phone was 
enough to put me in the funny farm for life.  You see throughout this 
point I found out it wasn't my leggs or my manhood I was to worry about, 
it was both hands.  Specifically, my thumbs!  Well Dad finally arrives 
to see his son lying on the floor in histerical laughter over the fact 
that he cannot light a cigarette! ( Otta give the damn things up) blood 
everywhere, gotta replace a carpet now!  Anyway, to speed this up, once 
at the hospital, we have to explain to everyone, that I was not, nor am 
I currently drunk when this occurred.  The doctor had to go into my 
right arm, eight inches to retrieve the tendon, and the left thumb was 
just cut deeply to the tune of nine stiches, the right took eighteen 
externally, seven internally.  All is as well as can be two months 
later, and for those who are wondering, the Ex brought the kiddies over 
anyway, even though I had no use either hand, her visitation was over 
and that was that.  Kiddie food for one week is great, being baby sat by 
your own kiddies, is something that I do not wish on anyone, Paybacks 
can be a Bitch!!   A whole batch of Raseberry Framboise was wasted, and  
the house smelled for three weeks even after proffesional cleanup, glass 
was found even in the living room as well as the dining room even last 
week.

Keep your thoughts on what you are doing, not EX's or what-not.....

Bryan
{SCHWAB at LANMAIL.NCSC.NAVY.MIL}:DDN:NAVY

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Date: Tue, 13 Sep 1994 11:13:44 -0400 (EDT)
From: Hal Laurent <laurent at clark.net>
Subject: Light bulb as heat source


Even if light *is* bad when drying hops, that doesn't preclude using a 
lightbulb as the heat source.  Just mount a sufficiently large tin can 
over the light bulb to block the light.
+===================================+
| Hal Laurent                       |
| Baltimore Maryland USA            |
| Home: laurent at clark.net           |
| Work: laurent at tamrc.enet.dec.com  |
+===================================+



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Date:     Tue, 13 Sep 94 11:33:13 EDT
From: "Glen A. Wagnecz, X6616" <wagnecz at PICA.ARMY.MIL>
Subject:  Re:  wheat beer follies

Brian-

	I've brewed three batches with the 3068 and I can tell you that
this yeast initially ferments quite vigororously.  A decent diamter 
(1/2") blowoff tube is _required_ for the first 48 hours of fermentation.
Don't worry if crud is blown over into and through the tube - this is 
actually beneficial.  This crudy, oily material contributes to a beer's
astringency, so loss of it will make your beer smoother.

	Extract bill sounds OK, but your quantity of hops seems a
bit heavy.  I currently use 1/8 oz. of cascade in the boil and 
1/4 of tettnang (both in hop bags) steeped after the boil for 15 minutes.

	The wyeast 3068 is definitely the yeast to use for that true
weizzen flavor.  Beware of bottling too soon, though.  You may want
to keep your batch in the secondary such that you get a total fermentation
time of 2 1/2 to 3 weeks.

			Mit Heffe!

				Glen

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Date: Tue, 13 Sep 94 10:10:37 MDT
From: npyle at hp7013.ecae.StorTek.COM
Subject: Brewery Tour, etc.

I took a tour (finally) of my local micro last weekend.  Named after a famous
nearby creek, Left Hand Brewery is a pretty basic ale brewery in a small old
building in an industrial part of town (Longmont, Colorado).  It was
originally a 2-man operation, but I think they've hired a couple of guys to
help with the grunge work.  I have to admit, I'm not a very good brewery
tourist since I always forget to ask good questions.

Before the start of the brewing day, a timer is used to heat water in the
brewing kettle, so it is hot at 8am when they come to brew.  The grain is
milled the day before brewing.  Their mill is a 2-roller mill with a grain
auger at the bottom which pulls the grist up to a hopper above the mash tun.
They do single step infusion mashes in an insulated tun, mixing hot and cold
water and the grain to hit strike temperatures.  He says it holds temperature
to about 1F during the mash.  I forgot to ask about lautering (i.e.  manifold,
false-bottom, etc.)  The wort is pumped to the kettle (a steam jacket type)
which has a whirlpool to separate hops, etc.  From the side of the kettle,
the wort is pumped to through a CF heat exchanger into the fermenters.  The
cooling water is put into the kettle, where it is used for the next day's
brew (it is about 150F the next day, so relatively little heat is needed to
get it to the proper temperature for the next day's mash).

After cooling, the wort goes into glycol-jacketed fermenters and then to
conditioning tanks.  It is filtered, then bottled and kegged from a pressure
vessel used to carbonate it (I assume artificially carb'ed).

He said that he would tell me everything about their recipes except the
yeast, as he considers the yeast a very distinguishing factor in his brews.
His big seller is called Sawtooth Ale, which is a very nice (award winning)
copper-amber bitter.  He also has a golden ale which is heavy with diacetyl
and pretty sweet; different from the refreshing goldens I've had elsewhere.
This is by design though, as he didn't want to "follow the crowd".  He also
offers a Ginger Ale which is unique and very well done.  A porter is being
brewed this week and I can't wait to taste it.

**

Regarding the recent flame-war, isn't it ironic that the flamebait dished out
by the MALT Prez was the bulk of his HBD contributions?  Isn't it also ironic
that it has been turned around into a lesson in netiquette?  BTW, I agree that
simple netiquette asks you to do your own basic research instead of asking
others to do it, I just think it is funny that this lesson must be taught via
major-league flameage.  Riddance is good.

Cheers,
Norm npyle at hp7013.ecae.stortek.com

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Date: Tue, 13 Sep 1994 12:36:11 -0400 (EDT)
From: LKAMPF at DESIRE.WRIGHT.EDU
Subject: 

Brewers and like troublemakers,

The recent cider questions posted to this glorious institution made me
go "hmmm" and dig through the stacks of books and printouts in my
office and, having just put my own batch in the primary, I thought
I'd spread the cheer.
My favorite wine book is kinda old (1970) but rather good, the 
title is _The Art of Making Wine_ by Stanley F. Anderson and Raymond
Hull. Hawthorne Books, sorry no ISBN. it says...

1 gallon fresh apple juice
sugar to 1.060
1/2 tsp pectic enzyme powder
1/2 level tsp acid blend
1/4 tsp grape tannin
1/4 tsp yeast energizer
1 campden tablet
wine yeast

If'n youse have fresh fruit, it takes 14-16 lbs for a gallon of juice.

my $.02, try to use a blend of sweet and tart apples for the best flavor,
however if it is difficult to communicate this to the little old deaf guy
running the press at Ye Olde Apple Holler, don't sweat it and use what
is handy. Make a yeast starter a couple of days in advance as per the
yeast faq. If you don't dig the fancy chemicals, just use juice, suger
to sg 1.060 or so ( I went to 1.073), yeast and maybe the juice of 1 lemon
to add acidity ( this is reletively important in wine making and the 
lemon juice wont effect the flavor). A few days in the primary, a week or
so in the secondary, prime and bottle as beer and zowie, cider. best if
aged six months or so, but it'll be good b the holiday season. 
  also, try spicing it, I added cinnamon and cardomon to mine...

  Thanks to all the hbd'ers who have answered literally ALL my questions
at one time or another( and to think I never even needed to post them!
helluva effecient use of bandwidth, eh?) This is an excellent forum 
with a wonderful sense of humor(mostly) and I'm all for the new
exploding carboy catagory at the next brew judging. Keep 'em coming,
the flames are just gettin good...

Larry Kampf
lkampf at desire.wright.edu
just another brew geek

vax/vms cutting edge technology for the 60's


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Date: Tue, 13 Sep 94 12:42 EDT
From: sunlife at uunorth.north.net (Glenn Anderson)
Subject: Drying hops in the sun? 

It seems kind of strange to me that sun-drying hops would contribute to 
light-struck (skunky) aromas in the finished beer. I'm under the impression 
that the componants within hops that become skunky are produced during 
boiling (isomerization).  These substances are not available to become 
light-struck in unboiled hops.

My hops sat comfortably, 10-12 hours a day in blazing sunshine, I can't see 
how 2 or 3 more days would make a difference.

Or, does something really funky occur when the hops are picked?

 (Please note, I'm talking about drying here, not storage)

 ...Glenn
Glenn Anderson
Manager, Telecommunications Facilities, BCS
Sun Life Of Canada
GANDE at SLIMS.ATTMAIL.COM


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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1526, 09/14/94