FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  CO2 Point (A.J. deLange)
  Pumpkin Ale Help (Geoff_Scott)
  Lauter Tun Design (Terry Terfinko)
  yeast head contact with air is good? (Chris Lyons)
  Re: Raspberry Beer (Ectoplasm)
  Different dry yeasts give different results also ... (Chris Lyons)
  "Half" batches (Tim Buck)
  Re: Stout Bout:  The Truth (Jason Goldman)
  Re: AHA Homebrew Comps. (Spencer.W.Thomas)
  Tripple "Bock", NOT! (Jim Busch)
  Open fermenters (Bob Jones)
  High F.G., cider, and Scotland (/R=HERLVX/R=AM/U=KLIGERMAN/FFN=KLIGERMAN/)
  Caramel in beer (Steven Lichtenberg)
  First Year / Caramel / Long Postings (npyle)
  Shiner Beer song ("Theodore B. Samsel, Comp Spec, Richmond, VA ")
  RE: Wort O2 (Dion Hollenbeck)
  Update on Lead Removal ("Palmer.John")
  Club only competitions ("Lee A. Menegoni")
  INBOX Message (See Below) (Mailer.MC1) (COYOTE)
  Juicer/ Contest Entries- Mail/ Zymurgy articles/ Addr. at end! (COYOTE)
  Old Peculiar (Chuck E. Mryglot)
  Lagering (Derek Bowen)
  rate of DMS production... (Robert F. Dougherty)
  maple syrup (Jim Emery)
  Wheat malt extract? (uswlsrap)
  Brewing Kettles (CJMURTAUGH)
  OOdles of bottles (Marc Hugentobler)
  Vitamin C as antioxidant (George Danz x632)
  Memphis (djfitzg)
  Stout Bout:  The Last, I Hope (Martin Lodahl)
  Stout Bout Apologies (David Allison 225-5764)
  Mashout (Andrew Patti)



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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Mon, 3 Oct 94 20:25:04 est
From: A.J._deLange at csgi.com (A.J. deLange)
Subject: CO2 Point

COYOTE wrote
>RE: CO2 life-  just a reminder for ya'll:  The regulator reading on a >full
>CO2 tank will read whatever it reads untill all the LIQUID CO2 is >used up,
>THEN the pressure starts to drop.  

>POINT:  CO2 is stored in the pressurized tank as a liquid.  
>It emerges as a gas.

The "point" is valid as long as the temperature of the contents of
the cylinder is below the critical temperature (87.9 F). Above that
temperature the contents are gas and the pressure gauge reading is
proportional to the quantity remaining (P = nRT/V). Keep this in mind
for hot summer days. I do _not_ recommend heating up your gas bottles
to see how much is left. Better to weigh them.


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Date: Mon, 03 Oct 1994 17:57:13 EST
From: Geoff_Scott at mail.magic.ca
Subject: Pumpkin Ale Help

Hi - I'm looking for some pumpkin ale help.
It will be a full mash with cooked pumpkin and pumpkin pie spices.
1.  Any recommendations on the maximum pumpkin to grist ratio?
    (I will be using two row)
2.  There seem to be a few options for adding spices:
    - in the boil
    - at the end of the boil
    - In the primary / secondary
    - make a tea and add this to the keg
3.  How much spice?
4.  Cinnamon? Allspice? Nutmeg?
Any input would be appreciated.
regards,
Geoff_Scott at magic.ca
   or
gscott at io.org



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Date: Tue, 4 Oct 94 7:23:03 EDT
From: terfintt at ttown.apci.com (Terry Terfinko)
Subject: Lauter Tun Design

I am building a new SS lauter tun and have been considering ways to heat 
the unit with an externally mounted electric unit.  I first thought about
mounting an element from an electric range on the bottom of the tun, but
the curved bottom of a sankey keg does not make this feasible.  What would
work better is a heat cable wrapped around the keg.  This would supply a 
more uniform heat.  I am trying to find a source for a 110 or 220v resistance
heat cable.  I was told that the heat cables for preventing freezing pipes
would not get hot enough.  I would be interested in hearing from anyone
who has tried this idea or knows if a heat cable flexible enough to wrap
around a keg is available.

Terry Terfinko - terfintt at ttown.apci.com

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Date: Tue, 4 Oct 94 08:42:08 EDT
From: Chris Lyons <Chris.Lyons at analog.com>
Subject: yeast head contact with air is good?

In yesterday's HBD Brian Gowland states:

> ...  It can actually be detrimental to deprive the yeast
> head of contact with air.  ...

Could anyone please explain why their is a benefit to having
the yeast head exposed to air?  Curious brewers want to know.

Regards,
Chris

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Date: Tue, 4 Oct 1994 22:17:48 +0930 (CST)
From: zoz at cs.adelaide.edu.au (Ectoplasm)
Subject: Re: Raspberry Beer

Mike Asks:
|> I made a raspberry beer last year.  It was basically a belgian ale with 8
|> pounds of raspberries added at the secondary.  The beer came out somewhat
|> sour/bitter from the raspberries with no residual sugar left to balance it
|> out.  Have others had more success with raspberries?

I just cracked my raspberry wheat beer that I bottled about 3 weeks ago and
it is nothing less than fantastic.  One of my less beer-loving friends says
it is the best beer I have ever brewed, and while I don't necessarily agree
to that extent, it is very good.  It has a wonderful raspberry aroma, and
just enough raspberry aftertaste to put you in raspberry heaven after you've
consumed about 1/3 of the bottle, but not enough to make it taste like
cordial.  The recipe was also one of the simplest I've done - I just used:

1 can, Edme Weizen extract (and the accompanying dry yeast)
1 kg dextrose
500 mL raspberry juice (I found it in a Greek food warehouse)
15g Saaz hops (dry hop)
1/2 cup cracked crystal malt

This was, of course, a 22 L batch.  The Edme yeast fermented out very cleanly,
with no interfering flavours, the addition of the extra Saaz hops was a
bloody good idea in my opinion :) (not *my* idea though - pilfered from the
Cat's Meow) and the crystal malt probably helped the flavour profile with
its complex sugars, although it didn't affect the colour whatsoever.

Skaal,

Zoz
- --
                            zoz at cs.adelaide.edu.au
                      http://www.cs.adelaide.edu.au/~zoz/

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Date: Tue, 4 Oct 94 08:53:57 EDT
From: Chris Lyons <Chris.Lyons at analog.com>
Subject: Different dry yeasts give different results also ...

Scott Josef states writes about liquid yeasts:

> 1) Liquid yeast.  There is always a lot of talk whether liquid yeast is 
> worth a little extra trouble.  The answer is YES!!  Although good beer 
> can be made with dried yeast, I feel that the range of flavors provided 
> by the liquid strains gives great flexibility.  Flavors produced by the 
> yeast are very important in the final product, second only to hops and 
> malt.  Additionally, it is easier to make a beer "true to style" by 
> selecting the proper yeast.  Try making a pale ale with dried yeast and 
> then compare the same product made with Wyeast London. IMHO, the choice 
> is clear.

I'd just like to point out that all dried yeasts are not the same.  In
fact, much like with liquid yeasts, different dry yeasts contibute their
own signature to the finished product.  Try brewing two batches with
the only difference being EDME vs Windsor.  The difference is dramatic!

Regards,
Chris

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Date: Tue, 4 Oct 1994 09:54:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: tim at access.rrinc.com.blacksburg.va.us (Tim Buck)
Subject: "Half" batches

I've just started homebrewing, though I've been lurking here for several weeks.
I just bottled a 5-gallon wonderful smelling nut brown ale (my Very First
Batch), and I'm ready to start another batch.

However, I don't drink that much -- I'm much more interested in variety.  So
I'd like to start brewing what I think of as "half" batches (~ 3 gallons).
Does anyone have any experiences they can share with me regarding 3-gallon
batches (such as how much to cut the ingredients, whether the 6 1/2-gallon
fermenting bucket is still usable, etc.)?

Thanks!

Timothy Buck                          | Q: "How many Apple Newtons does it take
tim at access.rrinc.com.blacksburg.va.us |     to change a light bulb?"
timbuck at borg.lib.vt.edu               | A: "Faux.  Three lemons axe soup."

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Date: Tue, 4 Oct 94 7:55:54 MDT
From: Jason Goldman <jason at bluestar.cnd.hp.com>
Subject: Re: Stout Bout:  The Truth


I wanted to add some comments to Martin's reply to David Allison about
the Gold Country Brewers and their "Stout Bout".  First of all, I have
run an AHA sanctioned competition, so I am familiar with Martin's
experience regarding volunteer help.  Answering questions from brewers
while trying to check in entries is very difficult given the number of
volunteers available.

I think in this case, it seems fairly clear that David's entry was not
received, so I wouldn't assume fraud on the part of the Gold Country
Brewers.  Face it, there's not really much motivation to do this
(especially if you're not cashing their check) and I would guess that
Martin is like the rest of us and takes running a competition very
seriously. 

I would add, though, that even if I were sending *all* of the paperwork to
the AHA immediately, I would keep a copy of most of the material,
especially the list of entries and the placing finishers.  I'd want
this, not only to be able to answer questions like Davids', but also
because...well, things get lost in the mail.

Jason Goldman
jason at bluestar.cnd.hp.com

Beer is.....good.

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Date: Tue, 4 Oct 94 10:09:21 EDT
From: Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu
Subject: Re: AHA Homebrew Comps.

I note in the most recent issue of Zymurgy, the following:

Correspondance ... should be directed ... On CompuServe contact AHA
President Karen Barela at 75250,1350, AHA/BJCP Administrator James
Spence at 70740,1107, and zymurgy Managing Editor Dena Nishek at
73252,3571. 

To translate a compuserve address into an internet address, replace
the comma by a period, and add  at compuserve.com to the end.  Thus,
James Spence's address becomes
	70740.1107 at compuserve.com

=Spencer in Ann Arbor, MI

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Date: Tue, 4 Oct 1994 10:19:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: Tripple "Bock", NOT!

I have been wondering about this so called Tripple Bock that
Jim Koch has been pushing of late.  Turns out its not a bock
at all, but merely a strong Barley Wine.  The beer is produced
with a top fermenting ALE yeast, then hit with a Champagne 
yeast to help finish the fermentation.  On top of this, it
has a sugar adjunct added, which of course is very non -
Reinheitsgebot.  Guess he wont be marketing this baby in 
Germany!   

Just goes to show, in the US you can call it whatever you want.

Good marketing,

Jim Busch

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Date: Tue, 04 Oct 1994 07:38:00 +0900
From: bjones at novax.llnl.gov (Bob Jones)
Subject: Open fermenters

Brian Gowland says about fermenting in open fermenters :

>It can actually be detrimental to deprive the yeast head of contact with air.

Please Brian, tell us about this. How can this be detrimental? I always
thought there was a CO2 blanket over the beer while it was fermenting,
during either open or closed fermentation. Enlighten us.

Bob Jones
bjones at novax.llnl.gov



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Date: Tue, 04 Oct 1994 10:35:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: /R=HERLVX/R=AM/U=KLIGERMAN/FFN=KLIGERMAN/ at mr.rtpnc.epa.gov
Subject: High F.G., cider, and Scotland

Well I just got back from a great visit to 
Scotland, and I must say I really enjoyed 
the cask-conditioned ales.  I had a great 
tour of the Caledonian Brewery in 
Edinburgh.  I will post a description in a 
day or two, but first I need help quickly, 
and I knew without the passage of a mental 
health care bill, the HBD was the next best 
place.

1.  I plan to make a dry hard cider this 
weekend with raw cider from the mountains 
of Virginia.  I will pitch with a dry 
London Ale yeast from Canada.  Should I 
either boil or heat the cider  to 190 F 
(before pitching) to kill any bacteria or 
wild yeast or will that risk setting the 
pectin?

2.  I recently made an "authentic porter" 
using 5 lbs. of D-C Pale malt and 2.5 lbs. 
of home made brown malt by gently roasting 
some more pale malt.  "To this was added 
2.5 lbs. of D-C biscuit malt, 0.5 lbs. 
caramunich, and 0.5 lbs. black malt.  The 
O.G. was 1.050.  This was then pitched with 
 a wyeast 1028 starter, shaken, etc. and 
fermented for 4 days at approximately 68 F 
then racked  (gravity: 1.030).  The gravity 
is still 1.030 almost 1 month later so I 
decided to keg this one.  Has this truly 
fermented out and the the brown malt has 
added dextrins and nonfermentables or do I 
have a stuck fermentation?  It doesn't 
taste sweet -- just like a nice smooth 
porter.  Any help would be appreciated.

Andy "Mac"Kligerman



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Date: Tue, 4 Oct 1994 08:09:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: Steven Lichtenberg <steve at Pentagon-EMH6.army.mil>
Subject: Caramel in beer

In response to todays HBD, Kirk Harralson related his experiences with 
caramel.  Cooked sugar is nothing to play with.  Sugart caramelizes at 
temperatures over 300^ and like Kirk stated will stick to your skin and 
seal all of the heat undera blanket of hot sugar.  You will get very bad 
burns if not careful.  The correct technique for adding hot sugar ( 
caramelized or not0 is to temper the sugar solution with a small amount 
of cool liquid prior to adding to the entire batch.  Simply put this 
involves adding a small amount of cool liquid TO the hot sugar.  NOT the 
other way around.  This technique has several effects.  It sets the color 
of the sugar (which can also be done with the addition of a few drops of 
lemon juice) as caramel will continue to darken even when you take it off 
the heat.  It also moderates the temperature of the hot sugar and 
contains the "explosion" in a small space that is still manageable.  This 
technique is almost universal in cooking.  You always add a small amount 
of cold liquid to the hot liquid prior to adding the entire contents to 
you pot/mixer etc.  If done correctly, this will provide a safe method 
for adding HOT (over boiling temp for water) liquids to a recipe.

   
       **** ---- "There's always time for a Homebrew!" ----  ****
      C|~~| -------------- Steven Lichtenberg ------------- C|~~|
       `--'  -------- steve at pentagon-emh6.army.mil -------   `--'
              -------------------------------------------

                 ENJOY LIFE--THIS IS NOT A REHEARSAL





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Date: Tue, 4 Oct 94 9:02:58 MDT
From: npyle at hp7013.ecae.StorTek.COM
Subject: First Year / Caramel / Long Postings

I really enjoyed Scott Bukofsky's "First year reflections".  You've obviously
learned quite a bit in that year, Scott.  Well, at least I think so, since I
agree pretty much with everything you said.  I *still* havent' gotten away
from "trying everything but the kitchen sink", but I'll learn one day.

**

Kirk Harralson, I too, experienced something similar with making caramel at
home.  I splattered a bit of the molten sugar on my hand, a small spot about
the size of a pea.  I immediately, like within half a second, sucked it off
my hand into my mouth.  It didn't burn my mouth, in fact it wasn't even very
hot, but it blistered my hand right away.

I poured the hot caramel into a container to use in tomorrow's brew session.
It is hardened, but I don't think I'll have any trouble melting it in the
kettle.  This is probably the advised method for using caramel (I'm talking
about cooling it first, NOT burning your hand first).

**

Bob Paolino writes:

>That having been said, I think it is appropriate to exercise a little
>self-restraint in responding or posting _long_ items of limited appeal if you
>know of a better way to target it. Posting competition winners 1stch of 20+
>categories in a homebrew competition probably will get some people pissed
>off.

I agree Bob, and you didn't even mention those long contest announcements
where the entire contest is described from the dates/fees/location (which is
important), down to the oddball categories and ALL the rules.  I'd really
appreciate a concise summary and a "email me for more details" type of post.
And you're right, I haven't had my coffee yet this morning...

Cheers,
Norm npyle at hp7013.ecae.stortek.com

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Date: Tue, 4 Oct 1994 14:35:59 GMT
From: "Theodore B. Samsel, Comp Spec, Richmond, VA "<tbsamsel at qvarsx.er.usgs.gov>
Subject: Shiner Beer song

  The leader of a band I was in in Austin wrote this. (John Clay &
the Lost Austin Band)...

  To the tune of the Praha Polka....

Empty bottles of beer on the floor
there won't be any more
cos they closed up the store
We'll get together another time here
With more of that Shiner beer.

Just take a sip and you will know
that you're going to have to drink it slow
That's why everyone I know
Spends so much time
Drinking Shiner Beer.

(repeat first part)

This is from the '60s when Shiner was a cheapo regional beer.
Now it's $7.00 a sixer in VA.
It used to to taste better, too. Very yeasty....

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Date: Tue, 4 Oct 94 08:15:14 PDT
From: hollen at megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck)
Subject: RE: Wort O2

>>>>> "Jim" == Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com> writes:

Jim> Chuck writes:
Jim> <here's the best place to get an oxygen bottle to use for wort areation? 
Jim> <Can I use standard welding oxygen or do I need to have medical grade O2? 
Jim> <If welding oxygen, do I need to put an in-line filter in?

Jim> I called several welding shops and bought the cheapest new bottle of
Jim> welding O2.  I use a .2 micron inline filter, the medical disk type.
Jim> It works very well.  You may be able to get away without a filter, 
Jim> bit it is a simple and cheap way to be sure.  I have used silica airstones
Jim> with good results, as well as SS scintered stones.

Jim> Good brewing,

Jim> Jim Busch

Could you please say where you get these filters?  I have been using
welding O2 with no  filtering and am scared I am not practicing "safe
aeration".  This would be a much easier solution than making some sort
of liquid based sanitizer in the O2 line.

thanks,
dion

Dion Hollenbeck (619)675-4000x2814     Email: hollen at megatek.com
Staff Software Engineer     Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California

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Date: 4 Oct 1994 07:46:50 U
From: "Palmer.John" <palmer at ssdgwy.mdc.com>
Subject: Update on Lead Removal

Hi Group, Meant to send this sooner but I have been busy. 
On Sunday, I ran more lead removal experiments. (Had to go buy more Home Test
Kits). With the 2/1 volume ratio of vinegar to H2O2, complete lead removal took
between 10 and 15 minutes. The soft buttery gold color can be used as a good
indicator that the process is complete. Preliminary results last week had
indicated less time, but with the revised 2/1 ratio, the brass can be left in
the solution longer without blackening or pitting. So, 10-15 minutes.
Thanks,
John Palmer 
MDA-SSD M&P palmer at ssdgwy.mdc.com  

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Date: Tue, 4 Oct 94 11:57:25 EDT
From: "Lee A. Menegoni" <lmenegoni at nectech.com>
Subject: Club only competitions

Our club has regularly participated in all club only events for three years 
or so.  We have always got our results from the AHA in a timely manner, 
except the time the box the entry was in got crushed on a loading dock.  
Since our membership spans the states of New Hampshire and Massachusetts we 
have on rare occasions had problems getting the entry forms to the club 
representative, James Spence has always been helpful in this regard by 
mailing a set to the party in need.

IMHO the club only competitions mirror HB competitions in general some are 
run better than others.  Entrants in any HB competition should realize 
these are run on volunteer labor.

Our club, The Brew Free or Die Homebrew Club of New Hampshire, is hosting 
the club only Bock competition in the spring of 1995.  We will recieve no 
compensation from the AHA.  One member will be accepting 50-70 UPS packages 
at their home, probably in a 10 day span.  These entries will be 
transported to another member's home who is donatining their beer 
refridgerator space for all the entries and their home as a judging site 
too.  Other members will serve as stewards and judges some of whom will 
drive 50 or miles to volunteer.   Homebrewing is a hobby.  

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Date: Tue, 04 Oct 1994 09:51:58 -0600 (MDT)
From: COYOTE <SLK6P at cc.usu.edu>
Subject: INBOX Message (See Below) (Mailer.MC1)


Hah- tricked you!  Thought it was gonna be a reject message didn't you!
Don't you all hate seeing those!   Well I do!!!!!!!!!

Ok...ok...ok.   Gripe grumble moan.

Seems to me a consistent header like that could/should be filtered out
by the wonders of the automated extravaganza of the administratia of this
fine digest.  Coordinator- coordinator-  could you- would you-  please sir!

Seems like ANYTHING that sez INBOX is bound to be GARBAGE.
I haven't seen ONE yet that held any worth.  Is it possible?   Tanx.


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Date: Tue, 04 Oct 1994 10:27:22 -0600 (MDT)
From: COYOTE <SLK6P at cc.usu.edu>
Subject: Juicer/ Contest Entries- Mail/ Zymurgy articles/ Addr. at end!

Juicer Rundown:  Had a couple favorable messages on use of these
steam juicers- enough so that I think I'll go for it.  

BUT: I'm not gonna bother you all with WHO posted to me, since I've
already thanked them in private!

Yes more gadgets from ACME for the Coyote's brewing efforts.
Seen one for ~$20-30.  Catalog number Bu11Shee1t.  ACME products     :)
(actually at a local cheapo store- same supplier of the Coyote Cooker!

I like the idea that the "juice comes out sterile due to the steam"
and it's "clear- no pulp"  and can be collected in "sterile hot
champagne bottle" and "stored as is until it's needed for beer or wine"
(indirect quotes...just off the top of my furry head)

***
Contest Entries never arrive.  

Hmm-  could we blame to post office?   Nah.

I support Martin's right to publicly defend himself against this attack.
It seems like the CORRECT step of contacting the AHA- didn't happen.

Plus- hey, if the check didn't get cashed- seems like SOMETHING is wrong!
I know for a fact that if a box leaks during transport- it gets dumped.
SO- if something cracked in the box en-route, that was the end of it.
One of the wonders of our great postal services is how packages can get lost
or discarded, and if there is no insurance, well they just dissapear.
No notification WHATEVER.  You just get that carefree, snide, ignorant look
from the person behind the counter saying, "I don't know anything about it
and I'm not really going to try to find out for you either, you're just SOL".

I had a computer disk and a bag of...woodruff that was supposed to come my way.
It never did.  My guesses:  1. it was lost,  2. someone opened it, found the
baggie of brown leaves, and thought it was "something else" and either
sent it to the authorities, or sampled some.  I hope that had a FIERSE headache
and a NASTY cough!  Strange thing was a bill from the city was never delivered
around the same time.  SO go figure.

There have been stories/cases of shipments/boxes mysteriously dissapearing
from airline baggage areas, and delivery trucks.  Espcially things labelled
like- Case of Beer, Valuable Delicate Fragile Commodity, Do Not Drop.

My advise- Package EXCESSIVELY.  Bubble wrap bottles, pack FIRMLY with 
packing popcorn. Use oversized boxes.  Do not let bottles touch in the box.
Securely bag up bottles- water tight!  Hell- insure the thing, claim an
excessively high value on it!  They leave that up to you.  If they lose it
you WILL collect.  Perhaps enough to cover a WHOLE new batch of brew,
or even a stainless steel pot if you really exagerate!    

Also:  Use reverse psychology.  Print in bold letters on the outside:

    Please Kick.   Throw this box against brick walls.  Drop from truck.
    Anyside but this one up.  Hit with baseball bat. Stack VERY high!
    Please open and check contents, then reclose VERY poorly.  I love you!

***
Articles to Zymurgy?  

Al seems to have claimed credit for the bubble theory.  I seem to remember
a long discussion about this concept some time back, and a generalized 
consensus was that the nasties will persist inside the bubble and move right
on through that little gadget.  But...maybe it was Al who came up with that
theory.  It's his now it seems.  I'm not going to check the archives to prove
it one way or another.  

My question here is:  Since this is clearly a flawed gadget concept what is
it doing getting published in a "big" magazine like zymurgy?  

What does it take to publish an article in zymurgy and what do you get for it.
Money, fame, floozy women (or men), free beer and brewing supplies?

What if I want to publish something in the magazine- just write up what could
easily be an HBD article, and send it to them instead (or as well as).
Do I have to be any more correct that I do for the HBD? (which certainly isn't
the case- had you all believing the peat wood thing didn't I-  I thought I
was right, therefore I was right - for my own little world!  But I still
think propane isn't the right heat source for a good smoke!  Anyone ever
try smoking hops?)


***
I haven't gotten any response on the carboy handle question.  So-
here it is again:

    How/Where do you attach it for a 7 Gal acid bottle? On the threaded
    portion, or lower down?

The only suggestion was to use a milk crate for carrying.  I know that one.
(thanks anyway Domenick) but it doesn't help for rinsing and general 
fondling of the carboy.  Plus some of fermometers are place too low for
that to work (ooops)

***
Finally- my old plea-  that people put their 

                    internet address at the end

of their posts.  I don't need to know where you work and don't care how
cute you can draw a mug of beer  :)  but I can't work backwards in a digest
(can you?) and for direct responses it's nice to have the e-mail add at the 
end.  I usually don't know if it's worth a response till I've read the message
by then the header is gone!    Just my personal preference.

    \-/-\   John (The Coyote) Wyllie   SLK6P at cc.usu.edu  \-/-\


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Date: Tue, 4 Oct 94 12:46:35 EDT
From: cem at cadre.com (Chuck E. Mryglot)
Subject: Old Peculiar

Anyone have any luck cloning Teakston's Old Peculiar.  

I had it on occasion last year when I was on assignment in England
(real good out of the keg) and just had a few bottles last night.  

Good stuff.     What classification does this Ale fall into?

chuckm

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Date: Tue, 4 Oct 1994 13:32:08 -0400
From: derek at bex.com (Derek Bowen)
Subject: Lagering

I am starting my first lagering job and I am not sure about a few things.

1)  What is the lowest temperature which I should lager at and does the
    temperature make any difference in the quality of the brew?  Obviously
    time does, but I am in no particular rush.

2)  Should I be lagering from day one or wait a few days before moving the
    beer to the colder area?

3)  Should I be racking the beer at some time or do all of the fermentation
    in the primary fermenter?  And if so, doesn't the racking leave behind
    the yeast (after all, it is bottom fermenting!)

Basically, should I treat it like an ale or just leave it alone?!

TIA

Derek Bowen
dbowen at bex.com


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Date: Tue, 4 Oct 1994 11:18:32 -0700
From: wolfgang at cats.ucsc.edu (Robert F. Dougherty)
Subject: rate of DMS production...

Hi!  Please note that I'm posting this for Karl- try to send any
replies to his address.....

thanks,
bob dougherty

Here it is:

**********************************************************************
 
In his book on continental pilsners, Dave Miller states that DMS production
takes place in hot wort (after the boil), but no longer takes place once the
wort is cooled.  Does anybody have any idea what at what rate the DMS is
produced.  For instance, if the cool down rate from boiling to 50 F is 1.5
hours versus 30 minutes could the amount of DMS go from below the taste
threshold to above the taste threshold by using the slower cool down rate?  Or
is the increase in DMS negligible?  Thank you.
 
 
Karl
- --
Karl Scheppers -- Karl_Scheppers at notes.seagate.com
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
Seagate Technology   -   920 Disc Drive   -   Scotts Valley, CA 95066 USA
Main Phone 408-438-6550   -   
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------


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Date: Tue, 4 Oct 1994 11:40:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jim Emery <jimery at u.washington.edu>
Subject: maple syrup

Hi all.  I was wondering if someone can tell me more about the affects of 
adding maple syrup to ones wort.  It's mentioned briefly in Papazians two 
books but he doesn't seem to write much about how it affects the taste, 
body etc.  I'm planning on brewing a cranberry wheat beer from the latest 
Zymurgy.  I know that Sam Adams misnamed Cranberry Lambic uses some maple 
surup and was thinking about adding this to the recipe.  Any info would be 
appreciated.  Cheers.  Jim

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Date: Tue, 04 Oct 94 15:47:18 EDT
From: uswlsrap at ibmmail.COM
Subject: Wheat malt extract?                                              

- -------------------- Mail Item Text Follows ------------------

To: I1010141--IBMMAIL

From: Bob Paolino
      Research Analyst
Subject: Wheat malt extract?

Does anyone out there know of a 100% wheat malt extract other than 3 kg cans of
Ireks? (I assume it's 100% because the ingredients list is: Wheat, Water.) The
homebrew shop owner said it's the only one he knows about, and only that size.

It's not that I'm looking to do a 100% wheat brew. I have the Briess weizen
extract (60-40, I believe) in my kitchen, but it's too dark for what I want to
make, and I want the 100% wheat to blend with a light (barley) extract.

I bought the stuff because that's what he had, but it's more than I need
in one brew, considering that I'll be adding other fermentables.

1) Are there other 100% wheat extracts?  Do they come in smaller sizes?

2) May I correctly assume that the Ireks will be fairly light in colour, or
   have I not really solved my problem?

3) The other ones he had were Briess (liquid and dry--I've used both) and
   M&F (haven't used).  Is the M&F (40-60) any good, and is it very light?

Private email okay, but this might be worth posting for others.  TIA.

Bob Paolino
Disoriented in Badgerspace

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Date: Tue, 04 Oct 1994 15:49:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: CJMURTAUGH at HCACAD.HOLYCROSS.EDU
Subject: Brewing Kettles

I'm looking to buy a brewing kettle, and was wondering if anyone has any
suggestions on where I might find one at a good price, and/or what manufacturer
I should look for.  Specifically, I'm looking for stainless steel, preferably
8-10 gallons, with a spigot.  Any suggestions would be appreciated!!

Thanks,
Colin Murtaugh
Worcester, MA


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Date: Tue, 4 Oct 1994 13:03:45 MST7MDT
From: Marc Hugentobler <MARHUG at TELECOM.USU.EDU>
Subject: OOdles of bottles

Hey compadres,

Long time no speak. Thought I'd chime in on the bottle issue. As far 
as unmarked brown bottles go I have a hard time doin' better than 
budswillmillers etc. Steve Robinson writes in lament, "gimme 
something I can drink!"( Not a direct quote). Why drink swill? I just 
mosie on over to the local pub and buy the empties. For about a $1 I 
get a case of 12 oz. bottles in a nifty box(Good for stacking in the 
basement!) Check around at establishments in your area, its likely 
you can score some empties if you play your cards right.

For that matter, any person I've ever known that both drinks beer and 
knows I brew, eventually shows up at my door with bags of various 
bottles. "Can you use these?" they say as I graciously smile and say 
"Ahhh, sure." I take em and sort them into two piles- those I want 
and those I don't. Recycle the ones I don't and bolster my bottle 
collection with the ones I do. In fact my bottle needs rarely exceed 
my stock. Unless I get a little overzealous brewing beers of every 
different kind.

Anyhow, just a couple of ideas for the oft-maligned bottler(read not 
enough dough to keg).

Adios
Marc

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Date: Tue, 4 Oct 94 17:01:44 EDT
From: danz at edasich.rtp.semi.harris.com (George Danz x632)
Subject: Vitamin C as antioxidant

I heard from a local brewshop that one can use Vitamin C
(not the pills, but Ascorbic Acid crystals) as an 
antioxidant when mixing priming sugar in the carboy, etc.
prior to bottling.

Does anyone have any experience with this and what flavor 
changes, etc. may occur?  Also what is the recommended 
quantity to use for a 5 gal. quantity?

The reason all this comes up is that in order to get a good
mix of priming sugar, since I batch prime (too lazy to prime
each bottle or container), I heard that one should put priming
sugar in empty carboy first, so that when the new beer was 
racked into it, a good mix was established and even carbonation 
in each bottle would result.  Well, I've had good mixing action,
but it seems that the extra racking step could introduce more
air than might be desirable.  Any comments?

Thanks,
George Danz

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Date: Tue, 4 Oct 94 17:53:29 EDT
From: djfitzg at VNET.IBM.COM
Subject: Memphis

 I will be traveling to memphis for the weekend. Does anyone know of a few
good brewpubs in the area? Please send replies via private email to
djfitzg at vnet.ibm.com

Thanks,
Dan Fitzgerald

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Date: Tue, 4 Oct 1994 15:56:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: malodah at pbgueuze.scrm2700.PacBell.COM (Martin Lodahl)
Subject: Stout Bout:  The Last, I Hope

My apologies to David Allison for unloading on him in HBD 1532, and
to the readership of HBD for subjecting them to the blast.  David
and I have been in touch via email, and I'm now convinced that
what he intended to say was very different from my interpretation
of his message.

I did get several email messages on the subject (only one of which
was completely foolish), and a consistent question was why I didn't
retain records of the contest results, rather than send everything 
back to the AHA.  The reason is directly related to the nature of
the AHA-sponsored "Club-Only" competitions.  They are fundamentally
different from the customary AHA-sanctioned competitions.  All checks
are made out to the AHA, and the AHA announces the results.  They are
the sponsors of the contest, and the club doing the judging is acting
as a contractor to them.  The AHA reimburses such expenses as cups,
copying, postage, bread and water, and provides a list of BJCP judges 
in the area.  The club that does the work pays for pretty much anything 
else that may be needed, such as food for the judges, if you don't do the
whole thing in a single session.  If your club is thinking about doing
one of these, be advised that it will be a hit on your treasury, as
well as an, er, interesting experience.  All entry forms, etc., are 
sent to the AHA as soon after the judging as is possible, and all
questions concerning these contests should be directed to the AHA.
The only real argument for keeping a copy of everything would be
in case the mailing to the AHA were to disappear, but with Express
Mail that's a pretty rare event, and if necessary the records could
be reconstructed from the registrar's spreadsheet.  It would be the 
AHA's job, then, to try to get duplicate checks for the entry fees.

Another key to this situation is that it's sadly common for beer
to disappear in shipment.  If you're shipping via USPS and they
guess what it is, it's gone.  UPS appears to have no consistent
policy;  some locations will either return or seize any shipment
that they suspect contains alcohol.  FedEx has never failed me, but
they're _very_ expensive.

So I hope this puts the question to rest, and allows us to go on
in peace.

	- Martin

= Martin Lodahl     Systems Analyst, Capacity Planning      Pacific*Bell =
= malodah at pacbell.com      Sacramento, CA USA	            916.972.4821 =
=    If it's good for ancient Druids runnin' nekkid through the wuids,   =
=  Drinkin' strange fermented fluids, it's good enough for me!  (Unk.)   =



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Date: Tue, 04 Oct 1994 11:27:00 -0800 (PST)
From: David Allison 225-5764 <ALLISON.DAVID at A1GW.GENE.COM>
Subject: Stout Bout Apologies


Sorry I don't have any of those cool mail tools to cut and paste comments.

First -
My apologies to Martin and the Gold Country Brewers Assoc. for my curt 
comments regarding my Stout Bout entry (or lack of).  In trying to make my 
post short, I connected their fine club and the way AHA sponsored club 
competitions are handled.  I certainly did not mean to slander Martin or
the GCBA -- and for that misunderstanding -- I am truly sorry.  

To make a short post long, and to explain myself (perhaps I should keep my 
mind shut) -- I didn't mean to imply that the GCBA "deep-sixed" my 
paperwork/check and just drank my beer (did I say that?).  When I called 
the GCBA to find out if my beer was received/judged -- Martin told me that 
all paperwork was sent off to the AHA, because that how the AHA sponsored 
homebrew comps are handled.  Martin was polite and helpful on the phone 
as I have found him to be on the HBD.

My frustrations arise from the method in which AHA sponsored competitions 
are handled, which the GCBA followed (as required).  The only way I
could find out if my beer was received was to wait for my scoresheets to
arrive from the AHA or my check to be cashed.  From my understanding,
the AHA is notoriously slow in this process (sorry if that is slander).
I waited a few months before posting my poorly written HBD post.

I didn't have Martin's or the AHA's e-mail addresses (I do now) and should 
have written them personally regarding the final results. One purpose in
writing to the HBD was to get a dialog with other HBDers with regards
to problems in getting competition results from the AHA in a timely 
manner.  I understand that I am not the only one.  Perhaps it would be 
better if the AHA let the homebrew club deal with tabulating the results 
and sending them to the entrants.  This is what is done with AHA sanctioned
competitions.  Then the sponsoring homebrew club could send 
the final results to the AHA along with other pertainant info to the AHA.
I am sure there is a problem with this that I don't foresee, but at least 
homebrewers wouldn't have to wait months to find out if their beer had
indeed been received and judged.

I have subsequently found out that indeed the scoresheets have been sent
out and checks have been cashed.  I guess I have to dig-out my cancelled
checks to see if mine was ever cashed and that will tell me if my entry got
lost in the mail or the scoresheets were -- I suspect that my entry was
lost (drag).  I was very careful in sending it.

BTW, I have been involved (volunteered) in large competitions and do
realize the effort that is put into them.  I have also entered competitions
and have always received my scoresheets in a reasonable timeframe. Again,
I had no idea if the the AHA was just being slow -- which leads me to ...

Second... 
I have contacted the AHA _twice_ about the delay in receiving Zymurgy a 
month later than the local brew shops.  They informed me that the 
individual subscriptions go out in third class mail and the arrival of my 
magazine is up to the US Mail (Oh No!!).  Don - I am sorry to upset you 
also (I must have been having a bad mind day), but I am wondering why I 
should pay essentially the same money for Zymurgy to be sent to me a month 
later than I could get via the homebrew shop.

Are there others out there with these same issues/concerns/problems?

 - David

P.S.  I just received an email regarding the first post in the HBD.
This was never meant to be a me versus them issue -- let's keep it 
constructive.



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Date: Tue, 4 Oct 94 20:58:44 EDT
From: Andrew Patti <patti at ee.rochester.edu>
Subject: Mashout


Over this past weekend I brewed a Northern Brown Ale
from a recipe in Miller's handbook (I don't recall the
name exactly right now), and used his suggested method
for doing a partial mash. It turned out to be a lot of
fun, and pretty low-tech. In all the excitement over
tasting the sweetness of the mash after the starch rest,
my partner and I forgot to do the mash-out step.

This was my first tinkering with all grain brewing,
and I'm curious what the effect of NOT conducting
the mashout could have on the brew. Any comments would
be appreciated.

Andy

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1544, 10/05/94