FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Re: Raspberry Beer (Ectoplasm)
  Maple Beer/Wheat Malt Extract/Civil Discussion (Philip Gravel)
  What is it? (Dodger Posey)
  mashout question summary (Andrew Patti)
  Fuller Cask Ale/SA 3 Bock/Sankey Fermenters (26023-Mark Nevar(LCU221)30)
  small bottles / Rolling Rock offtaste / carboy vs. bottle maturing (Jim Blue)
  Beer bottles/the final chapter (Steve Robinson)
  RE: Tripple Bock NOT!/maple syrup (Rick Starke)
   (/R=ENSRV1/R=AM/U=millst/FFN=MILLST/)
  Re: Liquid vs dry yeast (Allan Rubinoff)
  Water Heater Conv / AHA Membership (Rob Reed)
  Mashout, Carboy handles, Old Peculier, Zymurgy errors (Nancy.Renner)
  Exposing your ferment! (Jeff Frane)
  Yeastlab and pectin "setting" (TIM)
  Extract recipes ("Krauss, Robert W.")
  Grain Mill Project (Chris Barnhart)
  Specialty Malts (Willits)
  Glatt Mills/Chelsea, Mich. (michael j dix)
  Aging Beer (Robert Bendesky)
  Re: Yeast Labs Irish Ale Yeast and an Infection (Karl Elvis MacRae)
  Brew Kettles and metal plating ("A. Sturdivant \"Sturdy\" McKee")
  Lauter Tun Design (R E HAWKINS)
  ANNOUNCE: SoB Conference Web Page (Rick Garvin (703-761-6630))
  New Yeast Strains (Steve Scampini)
  Zymurgy delivery (Btalk)
  Air filters (Btalk)
  Is it possible to OVERpitch??? (David Draper)
  Small particles floating near neck of my bottles (Michael Minter)
  Re: yeast head contact with air is good? (Erik Speckman)
  Bass Ale recipe question (Julie A Espy)
  Spirit of Belgium ("Phillip R. Seitz")
  Cheap air filters (Kelvin Kapteyn)



******************************************************************
* NEW POLICY NOTE: Due to the incredible volume of bouncing mail,
* I am going to have to start removing addresses from the list
* that cause ongoing problems. In particular, if your mailbox
* is full or your account over quota, and this results in bounced
* mail, your address will be removed from the list after a few days.
* 
* If you use a 'vacation' program, please be sure that it only
* sends a automated reply to homebrew-request *once*. If I get
* more than one, then I'll delete your address from the list.
******************************************************************
 
Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
  (Articles are published in the order they are received.)
Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc.,
  to homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com, BUT PLEASE NOTE that if
  you subscribed via the BITNET listserver (BEER-L at UA1VM.UA.EDU),
  then you MUST unsubscribe the same way! 
If your account is being deleted, please be courteous and unsubscribe first.
FAQs, archives and other files are available via anonymous ftp from 
  sierra.stanford.edu. (Those without ftp access may retrieve files via 
  mail from listserv at sierra.stanford.edu.  Send HELP as the body of a 
  message to that address to receive listserver instructions.) 
Please don't send me requests for back issues - you will be silently ignored.
For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen at novell.physics.umr.edu


----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Thu, 6 Oct 1994 11:44:32 +0930 (CST)
From: zoz at cs.adelaide.edu.au (Ectoplasm)
Subject: Re: Raspberry Beer

Argh!  One of my few informative posts to HBD and I skip important information!
With regards to my recipe for raspberry beer:

1 can, Edme Weizen extract (and the accompanying dry yeast)
1 kg dextrose
500 mL raspberry juice (I found it in a Greek food warehouse)
15g Saaz hops (dry hop)
1/2 cup cracked crystal malt

The hops were pellets, and were added to 500 mL of just-boiled water to
sterilise and expand them, and were then dumped into the fermenter.  The
raspberry juice was added to the hot wort immediately prior to adding cold
water to bring up the volume and cool to pitching temperature.  The
fermentation was a one-stage primary, because despite the name of the extract
the accompanying yeast is an ale yeast, and it was all over within 2 weeks.
Sorry about that dudes,

Zoz
- --
                            zoz at cs.adelaide.edu.au
                      http://www.cs.adelaide.edu.au/~zoz/

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 5 Oct 94 21:53 CDT
From: pgravel at mcs.com (Philip Gravel)
Subject: Maple Beer/Wheat Malt Extract/Civil Discussion

===> Jim Emery asks about using maple syrup in homebrew...

>Hi all.  I was wondering if someone can tell me more about the affects of 
>adding maple syrup to ones wort.  It's mentioned briefly in Papazians two 
>books but he doesn't seem to write much about how it affects the taste, 
>body etc.  I'm planning on brewing a cranberry wheat beer from the latest 
>Zymurgy.  I know that Sam Adams misnamed Cranberry Lambic uses some maple 
>surup and was thinking about adding this to the recipe.  Any info would be 
>appreciated.  Cheers.  Jim

A member of our homebrew club brought in an ale that he had brewed with
maple syrup.  It was absolutely delightful!  Even more so considering
that it three (3) years old.  He said he used a grade of Vermont maple
syrup that is very dark.  It is the grade that is typically used in making
maple flavored candies.  It is not the grade that you would purchase for
using as syrup on pancakes.  I don't have his recipe, but I'd certainly
recommend trying a maple brew.

===> Bob Paolino inquires about wheat malt extract...

>Does anyone out there know of a 100% wheat malt extract other than 3 kg cans
>of Ireks? (I assume it's 100% because the ingredients list is: Wheat, Water.)
>The homebrew shop owner said it's the only one he knows about, and only that
>size.

Ireks is the only 100% wheat malt extract I'm aware of and have only seen
it in 3.3 lb cans.

>It's not that I'm looking to do a 100% wheat brew. I have the Briess weizen
>extract (60-40, I believe) in my kitchen, but it's too dark for what I want
>to make, and I want the 100% wheat to blend with a light (barley) extract.

The lightest colored malt extracts are reported to be Alexander's.  I made
two weizens, one with Northwestern (Briess) wheat malt extract and one with
6.6 lb Ireks 100%  wheat malt extract plus 1.4 lb Alexanders light kicker.
The colors of both beers were very similar -- dark gold to amber.

Both weizens were pretty good beers.  However, in our homebrew club
competition, they only got average scores.  They were marked down, in
part, because their colors were too dark for the style and both lacked
wheat character (including the one with all the Ireks 100% wheat malt
extract!).  Moral of the story (for me at least) is that you can brew
a decent weizen with extract, but it will not be true to style.  For a
real, true to style weizen, you will need to do at least a partial mash
if not a full mash.

>I bought the stuff because that's what he had, but it's more than I need
>in one brew, considering that I'll be adding other fermentables.
>
>1) Are there other 100% wheat extracts?  Do they come in smaller sizes?
>
>2) May I correctly assume that the Ireks will be fairly light in colour, or
>   have I not really solved my problem?

No, not according to my experience.

>3) The other ones he had were Briess (liquid and dry--I've used both) and
>   M&F (haven't used).  Is the M&F (40-60) any good, and is it very light?

I have heard that Alexander's has the lightest color liquid malt extracts.

===> My editorial comment....

It's nice to see the civility expressed here in the Homebrew Digest.  When
David Allison made a post about a problem he had with an AHA Club Only
competition, Martin Lodahl posted a response addressing the issues raised
by David.  Offline, David and Martin corresponded and realized that they
had misinterpreted each others comments in the digest.  Both then posted
to the HBD to clarify what had happened, explaining their positions, and
interpretations.

Thank you.  It's refreshing to see two people handle a disagreement/mis-
communication on the net in such a gentlemanly manner.  We can all learn
from your example.

- -- 
Phil
_____________________________________________________________
Philip Gravel                                 pgravel at mcs.com

Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 6 Oct 1994 01:11:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dodger Posey <dodger at quack.kfu.com>
Subject: What is it?

I have a couple of q's for those interested in answering...
I made my Xmas beer and it has turned out quite different than what I 
thought I was going to get.

Abominable Ale (Herb Ginger Beer) 
5 gallons

10.7#  British Unhp'd Light LME
3#     Light Clover Honey
1/2#   Wheat DME (60/40)
3/4#   Crystal Malt-20L
1 1/2 oz Galena Hop Pellets, 12.8%AA, boil
1 oz.  Mt Hood Hop Pellets, 5.5%AA, finish
Grated peel of 4 oranges
4 oz.  Ginger, peeled, grated
1 1/2 tsp  cinnamon
1/2 tsp nutmeg
4 gr.  fresh mint leaves, chopped
1 1/2 tsp Irish Moss, rehydrated
1 pkg  Wyeast #1007 German Ale Yeast, in starter

Crystal malt in bag, to boil, turn off, add LME, WME, honey, Galena hops, half
of ginger & orange, all spices. boil 50 min.  add remainging ginger, orange
peel, hops and IM. Boil 10 min. Cool, sparge, aerate, pitch.

OG 1.107  at  80 deg= 1.110?
Primary for 20 days
Gravity at secondary 1.023  at  60 deg.

Questions......
80% attenuation?
Alchohol 8.7% (OG-FG=alchohol %)? or 11.2% (OG-FG x .129 per Williams 
catalog)??
Is this a Barleywine?
Is #1007 a real butt-kicker or what?
If its too strong to drink, can I cut it with water to weaken it?
Can I expect additional fermentation?
Will it rise out of my carboy and shape-shift into a smelly monster and 
eat me?

TIA to those kind souls who answer my silly questions.



- --------------Dodger Posey-----dodger at quack.kfu.com-------------


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 6 Oct 94 08:32:46 EDT
From: Andrew Patti <patti at ee.rochester.edu>
Subject: mashout question summary


Thanks to everyone who answered my question about
the mashout. I'm posting a summary of those answers
here. The original question was:

>In all the excitement over
>tasting the sweetness of the mash after the starch rest,
>my partner and I forgot to do the mash-out step.
> 
>This was my first tinkering with all grain brewing,
>and I'm curious what the effect of NOT conducting
>the mashout could have on the brew.

There seems to be a consensus that there are two reasons
to conduct a mashout:
   1) make the mash sugars more soluble, so sparging is easier,
      and extract efficiency is greater.
   2) stop enzyme activity

Everyone said that as long as the sparge went well, the
enzyme activity will be stopped during the boil, so no "damage"
was done. It was pointed out, however, that not stopping the enzymes
at the right time could lead to over-converting, which results 
in a "thin" beer (lacking in body). Also, not controlling the time
when the enzymes stop will make the recipe less repeatable, and
"true to style".

Thanks again for all the replies,

Andy

Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 6 Oct 94 08:14:46 EDT
From: man at lcwdw1.att.com (26023-Mark Nevar(LCU221)30)
Subject: Fuller Cask Ale/SA 3 Bock/Sankey Fermenters


On November 1, The Old Bay in New Brunswick, NJ starts Cask Conditioned
week with real Fullers cask conditioned ale served at cellar temp and pulled
from hand pump. I've heard a left coast bar will also get a delivery. The
Old Bay will have three others (Olivers, Oxford, and one more) on hand pump
the same week, but I'll be there for the Fullers.

I had a Triple Bock last weekend. The label said it was contract brewed
in California. Interesting.

For 3 years, I have been using 1/2 barrel Sankey kegs as fermenters with
great success. I put in on my King Kooker and boil to sanitize. To clean,
I used a soak of Super Washing Soda, which seemed to work. Earlier, I used
caustic and acid wash, but gave up with a small child helper in and around
the brewery. One particularly virgorous blow off left a stain on the 
underside of the top that I could feel with my fingers. That stain would
not go away. Last week, I decided to cut the top off and survey the damage.
I found what looked like rust stains above where the wort level would have
been. It was really dried krausen. With some elbow grease, I managed to
get it sparkling clean and I am doing an open ferment with a belgian strong
ale. The area in direct contact with the wort were clean, but they did have
a film of what I guess was beer stone.

Mark Nevar
man at lcwdw1.att.com


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 6 Oct 94 09:05:51 -0400
From: blue at cam.nist.gov (Jim Blue)
Subject: small bottles / Rolling Rock offtaste / carboy vs. bottle maturing

I needed a source of small bottles for bottling my Imperial stout, but
could easily find only returnable Rolling Rock in 7 oz. bottles around
here (DC). Being a thrifty person, I've been drinking them to get the
empties instead of just dumping the beer.

Rolling Rock is not your usual bland megaswill -- it has an actively
unpleasant aftertaste. It's not easy to describe (vegetal? grassy?). Does
anyone know what causes that taste? I'd hate to have it in one of my own
beers. (It's not skunkiness. RR is in green bottles, but the cases are
well sealed against light, even the hand holds.)

Apparently no one knows anything about carboy vs. bottle maturation for
high-density beers, since no one answered my previous request except one
person who also wanted to know.


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 6 Oct 94 09:29:36 EDT
From: Steve Robinson <Steve.Robinson at analog.com>
Subject: Beer bottles/the final chapter


Many thanks to the people who responded to my "where can I get brown bottles
with no raised lettering" question.  The overwhelming consensus seems to be
to buy empty Bud longnecks from the local biker bar.  One person mentioned that
Anchor Steam (tm) bottles are regarded favorably by judges in spite of their
errant lettering.

Several people questioned whether the innocuous lettering around the bottom
is what this rule is all about.  The real problem seems to be trademarks and
things like Bass bottles that have lettering on the shoulder.  Can any of the
BJCP types out there comment on whether this rule is enforced to the letter
or the spirit?  I would hate to send some of my fine homebrew off to a
competition simply to have it disqualified for a bottle rule infraction.

 -Steve R.
steve.robinson at analog.com (for the COYOTE)

Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 6 Oct 94 9:50:50 EDT
From: fastarke at rickstr.mawes.ingr.com (Rick Starke)
Subject: RE: Tripple Bock NOT!/maple syrup 

  Hi Brew folks,

  According to Jim Busch, the new SA "Tripple Bock" is not a bock. He is
  right, however nor is it "Tripple". I have just finished (OK last night,
  I don't drink *purchased* alcohol at 9:30 am) a bottle of the stuff, and
  have mounted the most attractive bottle (JK's marketing smarts again rears
  it's ugly head)on my desk at work. It is Triple, not Tripple, a small point,
  but an important one as it reflects upon style. (Marketing vs. actual style
  of beer). With regard to the actual taste, clean, smooth, but not necessarily
  my cup of tea.

  As far as maple syrup is concerned, In all the hype for the SATB, the fact 
  that it is made with maple syrup was one of the facts I  was not aware of 
  when I purchased the bottle. I had heard the hype re: aging in JD casks,
  and 1lb of malt/bottle (sure), but nothing of the maple syrup (which I 
  believe Jim Busch made reference to by "sugar adjuncts") IMHO, this
  taste shines through very nicely and adds to the taste of this "Barley Wine"

- -- 
        Rick Starke                  
  New England Customer Service          
  Branch Support Analyst
  mailpath: fastarke at rickstr.mawes.ingr.com     
  Phone: (508)836-1285

Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 6 Oct 1994 06:52:43 MST
From: /R=ENSRV1/R=AM/U=millst/FFN=MILLST/ at ENSRV1MR.BCASD.AZ.HONEYWELL.COM
Subject: 

On Date: Wed, 05 Oct 1994 08:38:49 -0500 (EST)

Mark wrote:

>Subject: yeasty taste

>I have been having a problem recently with my beer having a very strong
>yeasty taste to it as if the yeast is coming off the bottom no matter
>how carefull I am in trying to decant it(the beer) off. My regular
>procedure in making my beer is to primary ferment in plastic for a
>week and then transfer to my carboy for another week and then bottle.
>I know the quality of the bere is good if it just wouldn't have that
>yeast coming out into my glass. So I pose my question of what do you
>do when you get a yeast infection?!

>Mark Garwatoski

My advice...
I found that leaving it in the glass carboy for two weeks instead of only 1
week does wonders for beer clarity and taste.  You just need to kick back, have
a homebrew and wait another week. 

 If in fact you do have a yeast infection, something is terribly wrong - I
thought 
only WOMEN can get those. Just kidding!!  Sorry, I am not sure how to solve the
yeast problem.

Tom



Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 6 Oct 94 10:18:51 EDT
From: Allan Rubinoff <rubinoff at BBN.COM>
Subject: Re: Liquid vs dry yeast

In HBD #1545, john.mccauley at his.com (John McCauley) writes:

>After my first batch I bought into the party line about the superiority
>of liquid yeast (Wyeast) over dry and indeed I made some fine beers
>with it (especially the 1968 special). Yet here I am a year or so later
>and I find myself bored with making a starter on Wednesday so I can
>brew on Saturday. I really miss the simplicity (and low cost) of dry
>yeast and for my next batch am going back to Edme to see if I notice a
>difference. In the meantime could some of you experienced dry yeast
>users pipe up on your fave brands? The airwaves here on HBD are full of
>the praises of liquid, does dry really suck?


I've been very happy with the results I get from dry yeasts, which I use
for the same reasons you cite.  The main advantage of liquid yeasts is
variety -- you're not likely to see a dry witbier yeast any time soon,
or even a decent lager yeast.  For me, this is not a problem, because I
brew only British-style ales.  If you like brewing more exotic styles,
you may become frustrated by the limitations of dry yeast. 

The bad reputation of dry yeasts used to be well deserved.  Until a few
years ago, most dry yeasts included a substantial amount of wild yeast,
bread yeast, and bacteria.  In recent years, though, the technology for
drying yeast has improved dramatically, and there are definitely some
good dry yeasts available now.

One of the best dry yeasts these days is, oddly enough, Red Star, which
used to be the worst of the worst.  With the help of George Fix, they
selected a new strain and improved their drying process to keep out
contaminants.  The new Red Star is a very clean, reliable yeast, and
it's still dirt cheap -- about 50 cents a packet.

As for EDME, I've used it for many batches, with mostly good results. 
However, I recently brewed a batch with EDME that suddenly started a
second fermentation about 10 days after pitching (and several days after
all activity had apparently stopped).  I've heard of other cases of this
with EDME, which leads me to suspect that there may be some nasties in
the packet (wild yeast, perhaps), that take over when the main strain
finishes.

 -Allan Rubinoff  <rubinoff at bbn.com>

Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 6 Oct 1994 10:04:53 -0500 (CDT)
From: Rob Reed <rhreed at icdc.delcoelect.com>
Subject: Water Heater Conv / AHA Membership

Chad inquires:   

> It so happens that I have an unused gas hot water 
> heater, and I was wondering if anyone would know how to go about 
> converting it.  Many thanks...
> 

Bill Owens has a small book on building a homebrewery and one of
the pieces of equipment he focuses on is conversion of a water
heater to an outdoor burner.  I got my copy several years ago.  I
don't know if it is still in print.

*****

With regard to the post - I believe it was Norm - doesn't the AHA
also keep track of your BJCP experience points 'free' as long as 
you are an AHA member.  I seem to remember a note on the competition
organizer appraisal/experience record sheet that said if you aren't
an AHA member, that you neeed to include $2 to cover the
administrative cost of keeping your file updated.  Is this true?

 -Rob Reed

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 5 Oct 94 22:42:50 EDT
From: Nancy.Renner at um.cc.umich.edu
Subject: Mashout, Carboy handles, Old Peculier, Zymurgy errors

(From *Jeff* Renner) 
Andy Patti was bad, and didn't conduct a proper mashout.  Shame!  We may 
have to revoke his brewer's certificate ;-)  Andy, don't worry.  The three 
main reasons to do a mashout are 1) to fix the ratio of different sugars at 
the end of the mash by destroying the starch converting enzymes and halting 
their action, 2) to reduce the viscosity of the sweet wort to improve lauter 
runoff, and 3) to increase the solubility of the sugars for greater 
efficiency.  Since most of your sugars in an extract and grain recipe were 
fixed by the manufacturer, #1 shouldn't be a problem, if you didn't have a 
problem with #2, you didn't have a problem, and it's too late to worry about 
#3.  Lots of fine all grain mashers can't be bothered with a mashout, and 
with the few grains in your partial mash recipe, it probably made no 
difference at all.  I'm glad you found it so much fun! 
 
Coyote (boy, did you get me with "INB*X Message!") still hasn't heard where 
to put the orange carboy handles on 7 gal. acid carboys.  I put 'em *below* 
the threads between the two ridges.  It seems much stronger there as well as 
a more secure place.  You do need to replace the bolt with a longer one (3 
in.).  I've cautiously lifted them by the handle and haven't had trouble yet 
 - maybe four years using the 7 gal. ones and handles.  Knock on wood.  The 
recent horror stories give me the willies. I often ferment my larger batches 
in a Sankey.  Handles and unbreakable, doncha know.  
 
Chuck E. Mryglot wonders about cloning Teakston's Old Peculiar (sic) and 
wonders what kind of ale it is.  Chuck, Old Peculier (note the peculiar 
spelling) is an old ale.  It reached near cult status in England during the 
70's real ale revival.  It's named after an old Church of England office.  
It could just as easily be named "Old Bishop."  Perhaps the peculiarity had 
to do with choir boys?  No, actually a Peculier was the authority over a 
district within a diocese that was not under the jurisdiction of the bishop. 
 Kind of an island, called a Peculiar.  Most folks seem to think the special 
flavor is caused by treacle, although Jackson attributes it to the mixed 
strain yeast and three sugars used.  I thought that treacle was different 
from molasses, but the new special issue Zymurgy says they're the same.  
They suggest a recipe of 12 lbs. English malt (or 9 lb. extract), 8 oz 40^ 
crystal, 8 oz. roasted barley, 2 lbs brown sugar, 2 oz. fuggles  at  4% for 60 
minutes, 8 or 9 T lactose, 3 oz. blackstrap molasses and 1028 ale yeast for 
an OG of 1.060.  I have my doubts about this recipe.  Figuring on a modest 
30 points*gal/lb for 12.5 lbs of malt and 45 pgp for 2 lbs. of sugar 
(ignoring the lactose and molasses) would give 1.093!  That would be 
peculiar.  Their figures give only 16.8 pgp! 
 
Has anyone else noticed this kind of error in the new Zymurgy?  I've just 
skimmed it, but the article on brewing with oats has one recipe (Door County 
White) with no oats, six lbs. of grain for OG 1.060; oatmeal stout with 9 
lbs. of pale grains and an OG of 1.036 ( 20 pgp); and "Oat Sheaf Special" 
with 33 lbs. of grain for 12 gal for OG 1.050 (18 pgp).  I think the recipes 
must have been switched, but there's still way too much grain.  Somebody's 
asleep at the switch in Boulder!  When I've finished the issue, I'll write 
them. 
 
Jeff in Ann Arbor, Michigan, c/o nerenner at umich.edu (for you, Coyote)

Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 6 Oct 1994 08:49:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Frane <gummitch at teleport.com>
Subject: Exposing your ferment!

Brian Gowland writes, in defense of his original posting:
> > 
>      The source I have for this statement is "Home Brewing - The CAMRA
> Guide" by Graham Wheeler. In various parts of the book, Graham states
> that, once a good yeast head has formed, the fermenting vessel should
> be uncovered - quoting "It is not necessary or desirable to fit the
> lid to the fermentation bin during fermentation. It is important that
> the fermentation be allowed to breathe".

[snip]
>      I often brew on a Sunday and pitch my yeast Sunday evening - by
> Monday morning, the yeast head is normally becoming established but not
> usually ready to be uncovered (exposed patches of wort remaining). By
> the evening after work, I can remove the lid and I have noticed that
> the yeast head will grow almost visibly once it is uncovered to the
> air.

What seems most likely to *me* is that it's a question of pressure.  If
the fermentation vessel is completely sealed, not only will you run the
risk of blowing things up, but that pressure *does* have a negative
effect on fermentation.  On the suggestion of my dad, a food scientist,
I keep the liquid level in my blow-off jar as low as possible.  He
wasn't certain, but seemed to think that a lot of water (say 2-3 quarts
in a gallon jar) might have an inhibitory effect.

What Wheeler was probably referring to when he said the fermentation
should "breathe" was that it have an opportunity to exhale.

========================


Greg Niznik writes:

> 
> Also, does anyone know of a good way to presanitize your bottles before
> you need them - like a week or so before bottling. In our tissue culture
> lab, they routinely wash bottles with soap and water, rinse well, cover
> with tin foil and bake at 200 degrees for an hour or so. Is this OK for
> beer bottles? Can I do this in my oven at home?
> 

I get to recommend ovens again!  Yes, the lab is right, and yes, you can
do it with beer bottles.  I bake them at 350F for 90 min, because I'm a
stick-in-the-mud and this was the procedure I learned.  I put tin foil
on the tops, too (gosh, I'm wonderful!) and pop the bottles back in
their cases.  Saves lots of time on bottling night.


- --Jeff



Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 06 Oct 1994 12:03:58 -0400 (EDT)
From: TIM <LAATSCH at kbs.msu.edu>
Subject: Yeastlab and pectin "setting"

Hey all,

I recently made an extract-based blackberry pale ale according to a modified 
Papazian fruit-beer recipe.  i.e. I steeped the berries at the end of the 
boil at about 165 F for 20 minutes.  I did two-stage fermentation and bottled 
after about 3 weeks.  The bottled beer has been aging for about 3 weeks.  The 
problem is that the brew is not clarifying well at all and there seems to be 
a cloudy suspension in it.  I used Yeastlab dried Whitbread Ale yeast and 
have read that that particular variety takes an exceptionally long time to 
settle due to very fine particulates.  Does the cloudy condition sound like 
bothersome yeast or pectin "set" or worse---contamination?  The taste is 
fairly interesting, but has a very slight sulfide odor---barely perceptible--
and could use some maturing time.  Using Yeastlab was an experiment on my 
part that at present I do not plan to repeat!  Please bear with a brewer 
that is realtively new to the art.  Reply by e-mail to:

laatsch at kbs.msu.edu

Thanks,
Tim Laatsch (aka Bones)

Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 06 Oct 94 12:33:00 PDT
From: "Krauss, Robert W." <KraussRo at pse00.sch.ge.com>
Subject: Extract recipes


I have been brewing on and off for several years now and have enjoyed the 
experience of brewing AND TASTING.  At this point, I limit myself to extract 
brewing with the addition of specialty grains due to time constraints.  I 
have been depending on Charlie Papazian's classic TCJOHB for recipes.  I 
also get zymurgy but I find that 90% of the recipes are for all-grain beers. 


I am new to the HBD and am wondering if there is a source for recipes that I 
can access via my computer??  Can anyone help??   Any personal favorites to 
share?? E-mail response would be great, I don't want to waste valuable HBD 
space on this one.  My address: KraussRo at pse00.sch.ge.com

Thanks, I look forward to brewing some more excellent beers!!!!

Rob

Return to table of contents


Date:     Thu, 6 Oct 94 13:17:17 EDT
From: Chris Barnhart <clbarnha at letterkenn-emh1.army.mil>
Subject:  Grain Mill Project

I'm trying my hand at building a roller grain mill. I've worked
out most of the construction details but still have a few
questions.  Anyone have any experience with this?

1.  I'm going to have the rollers machined at a local shop. I can
get them straight or diamond knurled, any preference?  Also what
is the optimum diameter for the rollers?  I thought I would use 
1 1/2 inch x 8 inches long.

2.  I would like to motorize the mill.  What size motor, torque
rating, rpm, etc. would work best.  I seem to remember a post
saying you need at least a 1/4 HP motor, but don't think it
mentioned required torque or rpm. 

3.  How to set the roller spacing for the best grind.  Thought
I'd use a feeler guage to get the spacing.  Anyone seen a chart
that gives settings for different grains?  What about a rule of
thumb like "set the gap 1/2 the diameter of the grain". 

Any help is greatly appreciated.  Private e-mail fine.  I'll
post a summary if anyone is interested.  Apologies in advance if
this is covered in back issues.   

Chris "Barny" Barnhart  
clbarnha at letterkenn-emh1.army.mil


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 6 Oct 1994 10:42:32 -0700 (PDT)
From: Willits <willits at camelot.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Specialty Malts

I have recently started brewing all-grain batches and have begun to try to
figure out what different grains can do for the finished product.  My main
questions are about carapils, caramunich, caravienna, and crystal malts.  

	1.  Are caramunich and caravienna the same as munich and 		
		vienna malts? 

	2.  I have read in different places that munich and vienna 		
		malts are crystal malts and also that they need to be mashed.  
		It was my understanding that crystal malts do not need to be 
		mashed.  Is this correct?

	3.  Does dextrin malt need to be mashed?

	4.  I have read that crystal malts can break down at mash 		
		temperatures.  Is it a good idea to put them in just before 
		the mashout?

If people feel that a general discussion about malts is not very interesting,
e-mail is fine.  However, a discussion about how to use different grains and
understand their contribution to the wort may be helpful to other beginning
all-grainers.

Mike Willits
willits at camelot.stanford.edu 


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 6 Oct 94 12:04:28 PDT"
From: michael j dix <mdix at dcssc.sj.hp.com>
Subject: Glatt Mills/Chelsea, Mich.

I bought a Glatt Malt Mill last November - the yellow enamelled model - and
it crushes malt just fine.  It would not have occurred to me to grind raw
wheat in it, but then again the product literature says nothing about how to
use it.  Basically, because there was no product literature.  If there is
such a thing as a Glatt data sheet, please let me know.

By the way, this was before I was aware of the JS MaltMill, or even HBD.

I wonder if the gears are supposed to break if the load is too great
(mechanical fuse principle).  A little plastic gismo in my Penn level-wind
fishing reel breaks periodically.  I deduce this is to prevent more
expensive damage to the rest of the mechanism.

Historical note:  Chelsea, Michigan was the home of one of the
ur-microbreweries, the Real Ale Co.  They made three flavors of bottle
conditioned ale.  To me they tasted like my extract brews of that time (1982
if I remember right), except without noticeable faults.  Their costs, and
the necessity of going through distributors and retailers to provide a
fragile, unusual-tasting brew, put them out of business.

In Ann Arbor I would go the the Red Hawk bar and grill.  As I recall they
have microbrewed beer from Frankenmuth and Detroit, as well as some
interesting imports.

Mike Dix (mdix at dcssc.sj.hp.com)

Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 6 Oct 1994 15:10:13 EST
From: robert_bendesky at Merck.Com (Robert Bendesky)
Subject: Aging Beer


 I've noticed that some beers that I've made are best consumed when fresh
 (after conditioning is complete) while others (especially stouts and heavy
 porters) are best when allowed to "age".  What exactly is happening to the
 aged beer that makes it taste better, and why doesn't this apply to all beers?

						Robert_Bendesky at merck.com



Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 6 Oct 94 12:33:56 PDT
From: Karl Elvis MacRae <batman at cisco.com>
Subject: Re: Yeast Labs Irish Ale Yeast and an Infection


	Steve Veillette <VEILLETTE at WCSUB.CTSTATEU.EDU> writes:



 >My question:  Is the Irish Ale yeast normally this enthusiastic about
 >fermentation, or was this enthusiasm a result of the infection.  In other
 >words, was the spewing a result or the cause of the infection?
 
       I have not used the Yeast Labs version, but my last batch of
       my 'Last Judgment Extra Stout' was made with the Wyeasy 
       equivalent, and *boy* did it make a mess. I had to clear 
       the lock at least three times, and had to mop up a lake
       of black stuff the first time. Yeah, it's a happy yeast!
 
 
       -Karl
- -- 
  -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
  Karl Elvis MacRae  Software Engineer  Cisco Systems, Menlo Park, CA, USA
  batman at cisco.com     415-688-8231   DoD#1999    1993 Vulcan Eighty-Eight 
  -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
   "If you can't communicate clearly in writing, perhaps the internet is
    not the best place for you, eh?"      -Barb

Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 6 Oct 1994 12:39:51 -0700 (PDT)
From: "A. Sturdivant \"Sturdy\" McKee" <sturdy at itsa.ucsf.EDU>
Subject: Brew Kettles and metal plating

Mark and Bob (forgive the omission of last names, I'm doing this from 
memory) discuss burning on the bottom of your brew kettle (about HBD 
#1540).  I have a stainless brew kettle with no other metal plating on the 
bottom.  I have to be vigilant in keeping the brew moving to prevent a 
goodly portion of my wort from caramelizing or just burning right to the 
bottom.  I have come up with a cheesy semi-solution which requires slightly 
less vigilance on my part.  I wrap the bottom of my kettle in two layers of 
aluminum foil.  It's not pretty, it's not ideal, it's probably not even a 
good idea, but I don't have to stir for >1 hour, just every 5-10 minutes.

Now the question for all you chemistry/physics folks.  Can I, at home, 
plate the bottom of my brew kettle with copper or aluminum?  I remember 
doing essentially that in an undergrad chemistry course, but the object was 
to make a battery.  Can I use a battery connected up to my brew kettle, 
sitting on a few thumb tacks in a shallow bath of, say, CuSO4 (I'm 
attempting to write copper sulfate)?  How long would it take?  Am I 
talking about using way too much of the copper/aluminum salt to make it 
feasible?  Should I own up and go buy a *more* expensive brew kettle with 
my next student loan check, risking prosecution and auditing for a 
non-educational use of government subsidized funding?  TIA.

Cheers,
Sturdy

Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 06 Oct 1994 15:01:54 CDT
From: R E HAWKINS <rhawkins at iastate.edu>
Subject: Lauter Tun Design


>[wondering about wrapping resistance-wire about SS keg for lauter-tun]

Are you going to be heating in the unit, or just maintaining
temperature?  This makes a staggering difference in the amount of heat
required.

We considered hot water heater elements.  These draw about 3400-4000
watts.  But after looking at the response time of a bruheat in a plastic
bucket with 5 gallons, and a 3750 watt element, we discarded the idea as
not enough heat.  But again, we wished to bring it to a boil this way.

For maintaining heat, though, it could be enough (given a thermostat or
regulator).

However, if you have the capacity to heat the water/grain before hand,
outside of the pot (gas stove or cooker), life is easier with a cooler
anyway, either a 48 or 72 quart chest (12 & 18 gallons) or 10 gallon
Gott cylinder.  Put it in at the desired temp, and it won't loose more
than a degree or two over an hour or two.

Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 6 Oct 1994 17:13:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: rgarvin at btg.btg.com (Rick Garvin (703-761-6630))
Subject: ANNOUNCE: SoB Conference Web Page

The Spirit of Belgium now has a web page. This can be found at:

http://www.btg.com/~rgarvin/sob/sobconf.html

The page includes conference agend and registration information.
Competition information will be up shortly. Email version are available
for the web challenged from rgarvin at btg.com.

Cheers, Rick

Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 6 Oct 94 17:18:52 EDT
From: Steve Scampini <scampini at hpangrt.an.hp.com>
Subject: New Yeast Strains

I am curious.  Are there people in the world who spend their time
looking for new yeast strains for making beer?  Can this be reasonably
done on an amateur basis?  Are their competitions for the best new
strain of `94?  I can't remember any discussion of this on the digest
before.  Thought it would be an interesting topic to see kicked around.

Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 06 Oct 94 17:34:19 EDT
From: Btalk at aol.com
Subject: Zymurgy delivery

My friend who lives about 5 miles away , out in the country, got his most
recent Zymurgy 2 weeks ago. I haven't received my copy yet, nor has it shown
up at the nearby homebrew shop.
Note that my zip and the shop's zip have identical first 2 digits,while my
friend's is different.
Go figure.
Bob Talkiewicz,Binghamton, NY<btalk at aol.com> 


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 06 Oct 94 17:34:26 EDT
From: Btalk at aol.com
Subject: Air filters

I found the 2.5 inch disc type air filters at a local respiratory supply
place.  About $3.50 I think.

Bob Talkiewicz, Binghamton,NY<Btalk at aol.com>


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 7 Oct 1994 08:33:47 +1000 (EST)
From: David Draper <David.Draper at mq.edu.au>
Subject: Is it possible to OVERpitch???

Dear Friends, last night at the club tasting, one of our most experienced
and knowledgeable members related his opinion that it is possible for
homebrewers to introduce off flavors (in particular, diacetyl and/or DMS?)
into their *ales* (not lagers, now) by pitching *too much* yeast.  My
knee-jerk reaction was "you can't pitch too much", having seen many many
posts here to the effect that one of the biggest hurdles for homebrewers
to overcome is pitching *enough* yeast.  My cohort cited as an example of
overpitching using the entire yeast slurry from a secondary to repitch
into a second batch (of the same size as the first).  I'd like to solicit
opinions on this.  Can ales be overpitched on a typical homebrewing scale? 
If so, what would you expect the problems to be?  As always, I'm up for
private email + summary, but this might be of general enough interest for
public commentary. 

Quick comment re: Herr Coyote's comment on addresses at the end: the way I
get around the usual email system characteristic of being able to go only
forward through the message (in this case, the HBD), is use the "reply"
option and when it asks "copy message?", answer yes.  Then the whole issue
is read in and you can use whatever editor you have to move up & down. 
When done, just exit and DON'T send the message!!

Cheers, Dave in Sydney
- --
"Life's a bitch, but at least there's homebrew" ---Norm Pyle
******************************************************************************
David S. Draper, School of Earth Sciences, Macquarie University, NSW 2109
Sydney, Australia. email: david.draper at mq.edu.au fax: +61-2-850-8428
             ....I'm not from here, I just live here....

Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 6 Oct 94 17:32:43 CDT
From: minter at lsil.com (Michael Minter)
Subject: Small particles floating near neck of my bottles

Help! My first batch has been in bottles almost three weeks now
and I just noticed some very small particles floating in the neck
of the bottles. Could this be a sign of infection? I have
tasted a few bottles, once after a week and once after two weeks.
The batch is a EDME Weizen kit made with 2lb corn sugar and had FG of 1.006.
It tastes a bit over carbonated (like Seltzer) and light but smells 
like a normal wheat.

Anyone have suggestions on what the particles could be?

Michael "First Batch" Minter

Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 6 Oct 1994 16:29:20 -0700
From: especkma at halcyon.com (Erik Speckman)
Subject: Re: yeast head contact with air is good?

[Brian Gowland cites his source for an earlier comment that yeast should be
left open to air once the fermentation is firmly established.]

>     Whilst I have no experience of detrimental effects of leaving the
>fermentation covered, I can say that I have not had any bad ferments
>when uncovered - the yeast seems to like it and thrives wonderfully.


Around here I would worry about insects (mostly fruit flys) catching a
whiff of my estery wort and then suffocating in the CO2 blanket and dying
in my precious beer.  At the very least I would keep the lid loosly on the
fermenter in my "brewery".

______________________________________________________________________
Erik A. Speckman       Seattle, Washington      Good Brain Doesn't Suck
especkma at reed.edu                                  especkma at halcyon.com



Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 6 Oct 1994 17:24:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: Julie A Espy <jespy at tuba.aix.calpoly.edu>
Subject: Bass Ale recipe question


A while ago (a long while, I think) someone posted a recipe for Bass Ale 
that went like this:

1 can English Ale
1 can Unhopped English extract
1 oz. Fuggles hops
1/2 oz. Willamette hops

Bring a gallon of cold water to a boil.  Remove from heat and add the can 
of english ale and the can of unhopped light extract.  Bring back to a 
boil.  Add 1 oz. of Fuggles hops and simmer for 20 minutes.  At the last 
minute of the simmer add 1/2 Willamette hops.

This recipe was supposed to be for a 5-gallon batch. Does anyone know if 
this recipe will work?  I'm still a new brewer, but it doesn't seem like 
it's all there.  Is there anything missing?  It seems too easy.  I'm 
lookingg for a relatively "light" recipe, so if anyone would like to 
suggest one, replies would be appreciated. Private e-mail is fine.

Julie (jespy at tuba.aix.calpoly.edu)


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 06 Oct 94 20:42:21 -0400
From: "Phillip R. Seitz" <p00644 at psilink.com>
Subject: Spirit of Belgium

This is a reminder to interested parties to send in your registrations
if you're planning to attend the Nov. 11-12 conference.  The earlier we
get a body count, the better we can plan to keep you fed and dru...uh,
happy.  :-)

If you need a registration package, send me a message via e-mail.  If 
you like Belgian beer and haven't heard about this event, do likewise.

Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 6 Oct 94 21:30:03 EDT
From: Kelvin Kapteyn <kelvink at mtu.edu>
Subject: Cheap air filters

   I finally found the cataloge I was looking for to follup on the air 
filtration/aquarium pump aerator discussion.  Sorry it took so long.  
Awhile back, I ordered a small, in-line air filter from Heartland Hydroponics
in Vernon Hills, IL.  It is a simple device that you simply put in-line 
with the air hose coming out of your aquarium pump.  The price listed in
their catalog is $2.23 .  They sent mine by regular US mail, along with
a catalog.  The total then came out to something like $3.00.  Pretty 
reasonable, I thought.  The filter is something like 0.2 micron, and is
definately designed for air only.  You can reach Heartland at:

Heartland Hydroponics
115 Townline Road
Vernon Hills, IL  60061

(708) 816-4769
(708) 816-4770 (FAX)

As always, I'm not afiliated, just a satisfied customer, in the event you
are caught, the secretary will disavow any knowledge of your actions, and
this tape will self-destruct in five seconds ...    <ssssss-poof!>


Any comments should be sent by direct e-mail, since I unfortunately have
had to unsubscribe due to a heavy work load, and the fact that I'd rather
read the HBD than work, if it's in my mbox :-( .  This digest has been a great
source of info for this brewer.  Thanks all of you who have answered my
questions and posted soooo much useful info.  

Gezondheid all,   

 -Kelvin

- -- 

Kelvin L. Kapteyn         (kelvink at mtu.edu)
Ph.D Student specializing in Fiber Optic Strain Sensors  (nearly finished!)
Mechanical Engineering - Engineering Mechanics Dept.
Michigan Technological University
Houghton, MI  49931
USA

My opinions are my own.  If something is incorrect, or if you disagree with
it, that's ok.  Just point it out to me.  That's half of the reason I post
things in the first place.

Return to table of contents

End of HOMEBREW Digest #1546, 10/07/94