FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Apology for CO2 empty (Dion Hollenbeck)
  Why Go Back to Dry Yeasts ? (DUBOVIK)
  Oops, sorry! (BrewerLee)
  Beating a Dead Horse (Steve Elwood)
  half barrel sources (Btalk)
  Edme DMS malt extract question (John Keane)
  Holy Aeration! (Bob_McIlvaine)
  Easymasher (TM) questions (CliffR3500)
  Did I goof? (PARENT)
  Beer Stone: a problem with cask-conditioning? (12-Oct-1994 0858 -0400)
  Est. IBUs R Good / Some Followups (npyle)
  Racking To Secondary (Stephen Nesbitt)
  shipping beer/mashing crystal (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  Re: RIMS and EasyMasher (Dion Hollenbeck)
  rhizome storage (Mark)
  RE:open fermenters (Jim Busch)
  Gran's Cider and the Law, mostly grain brewing. (Erik Speckman)
  homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com (Stacey A. Wood)
  Racking / More Racking / Wyeast 1338 (Barry Nisly)
  Creating a Celis Pale Bock Clone (Douglas R. Jones)
  Re: Browsing the HBD (Jarrod Loewen)
  Asleep at the switch... (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  re: hops for (p)lambics (brewing chemist Mitch)
  joining the list ("HEATH GULDEN, MD; BEEPER 3480 AT MGH")
   (Harralson, Kirk)
  Abbreviations (ELQ1)
  Brewing supply stores (Gilad Barak)



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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Tue, 11 Oct 94 20:11:31 PDT
From: hollen at megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck)
Subject: Apology for CO2 empty

>>>>> "Tracy" == Tracy Aquilla <aquilla at salus.med.uvm.edu> writes:

Tracy> In Article <HOLLEN.94Oct10090402 at peg.megatek.com>,
Tracy> hollen at megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck) wrote:

Dion> Pick up a newly filled CO2 tank and shake it.  What is it that
Dion> you hear and feel sloshing back and forth.  If it does not
Dion> souund and feel liquid, then I have a real sensory handicap.
Dion> Science and supposition aside, how about a little empirical
Dion> observation here?

Tracy> I just happened to get a new cylinder of CO2 yesterday. Upon
Tracy> receiving this, I proceeded to shake it, listening for the
Tracy> "sloshing" you describe. I didn't hear or feel anything moving.
Tracy> Any comments?

Well, I told Tracy I would check again, and when I shook my cylinder,
lo and behold, no sloshing.  I was puzzled until I picked up my
propane tank and shook it, it sloshed.  I apologize to all for
confusing my propane tank with my CO2 tank (and thank you all for the
opportunity of avoiding a batch of "Hades" beer).

dion

Dion Hollenbeck (619)675-4000x2814     Email: hollen at megatek.com
Staff Software Engineer     Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California

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Date: Wed, 12 Oct 1994 00:11:51 -0700
From: Steve Peters <stevep at pcx.ncd.com>

Subject: Allentown/Philadelphia Homebrewer Needed!
Message of the day:  Yow!

To anyone living in the Allentown, Pennsylvania area:  a year ago I
brewed a fine batch of mead which has been fermenting quietly in my
parent's basement.  Now I have a non-brewing friend from Philadelphia
flying out to Portland for a visit and he wants to bring the mead
along for our mutual enjoyment.

So, we need somebody with bottles and bottling equipment.  Dan (my
friend) and my parents are totally homebrewing illiterate, tho
homebrewing friendly.  We need your equipment and your cooperation to
get the job done.  What's in it for you?  A share of the spoils, of
course.  When does it have to be done?  By this weekend.  Tough call,
I know.  Is it worth it?  Well, here's the ingredients:

7 pounds light clover honey direct from the beekeeper
4 lbs lehigh valley peaches at the peak of ripeness
lots of grated ginger
a touch of yeast nutrient
champagne yeast

Is it going to be any good?  I'm 3,000 miles away and haven't seen it
for year so it is hard for me to say.  Going into the fermenter it was
the best tasting honey-fruit drink I've ever had so my expectations
are high.  If you are up to the challenge, email me at:

stevep at pcx.ncd.com

happy brewing digesters...







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Date: 12 Oct 1994 08:17:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: DUBOVIK at hsdwl.utc.com
Subject: Why Go Back to Dry Yeasts ?

What am I missing?. I hear all this about the trouble with liquid yeast,
having to make a starter for it etc...
I use the 1 pouch YEAST Lab brand of liquid yeast. I pop the inner bag
about 1-2 days before pitching, it gets pregnant, I sanitize the bag 
surface, and pitch. No mess, no starter, no problem, great beer.
Am I missing something, or is you're subject matter beyond the scope of
this (my) text.

Gary 

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Date: Wed, 12 Oct 1994 08:54:24 -0400
From: BrewerLee at aol.com
Subject: Oops, sorry!

Just noticed that the constipated mail slinger at the university just crapped
out what was a weeks worth of replys.  Now guess what?  They are out of date.
 My apologies for the untimely posts in HBD1550.

John Keane posted about his wort chiller in the same issue.

One comment I would like to make about sanitation with the immersion type
chillers:  It;s a no brainer.  You just put the chiller in the wort for the
last 10 minutes of the boil and it's sterilized.  I know alot of you already
know this but there have been several comments/concerns.

I personaly use a counterflow, but what works for me might not work for you.

Gregg Carrier posted his concerns about his low-gravity results:

 > turned out with a low specific gravity.  It was about .015 low.  We wrote
it
 > off as improperly crushed grains (did them by hand) and brought the
gravity

Gregg, I had the same problems as did most if not all of the granola heads
(all-grainers) here.  

The Zap-pap system, while ok for partial mashes, has it's limitations as a
lauter tun.  The increased deadspace unter the first bucket, lack of
insulation and size all contribute to low yield mashes.

The best thing to do if you enjoy the all grain thing is to either invest in
an insulated tun (cooler) or insulate yours but then you have to find some
way to get the space below the mash reduced.  

Keeping the temp up (around 168), s-l-o-w sparging, and a more efficient
system raised my extract up from .022 points/lb to .032 points/lb in one try!

Before that, I just recognized my weakness and added extra grain. :)

Guess that about does it for this post, I'm using AOL for a while untill the
U's problems are cleared up.

Cheers!

 -Lee Bussy
 BrewerLee at aol.com
 lee.bussy at twsubbs.twsu.edu





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Date: Wed, 12 Oct 1994 09:10:07 -0400
From: selwood at ss_031.pppl.GOV (Steve Elwood)
Subject: Beating a Dead Horse

Here's an idea...let's discuss what the regulations are regarding the 
shipping of alcoholic beverages (specifically beer!) across state lines.  
Hello...is there anyone left out there who is actually still interested in 
what Jim-Bob Seersucker thinks about the internal policies and management 
decisions at UPS?!  I mean the HBD has become a forum for any "puke" to 
either bash people who actually have valid brewing questions (although maybe 
not in the eyes of the wolves lurking the Internet), or spew there opinions 
(quite annoying) over, and over, and over adnauseam.  (By-the-by this is my 
first post) Personally, I wish more people would fight the urge to interject 
their every thought into the "Once Enjoyable" HBD.  Furthermore, what would 
make me absolutely ecstatic (as if anyone gives a sh*t) is if every message 
didn't end with the banner "Hoppy Brewing." 

Thank you and have a HAPPY day.....


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Date: Wed, 12 Oct 1994 09:10:51 -0400
From: Btalk at aol.com
Subject: half barrel sources

Would someone please post the names, addresses etc. for the stainless half
kegs to convert into brewpots? It seems that the stainless kegs are becoming
scarce in my area.
Thanks,
Bob Talkiewicz, Binghamton, NY<btalk at aol.com>

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Date: Wed, 12 Oct 94 09:41:47 EDT
From: keane at cs.rutgers.edu (John Keane)
Subject: Edme DMS malt extract question

I'm planning to try a Papazian partial-mash recipe (Uckleduckfay
Oatmeal Stout) that calls for Edme DMS extract.  When I went to
purchase a can in the local homebrew store, I noticed that the top and
bottom of all four cans on the shelf were bulging slightly outward, as
though the contents were under pressure.  The cans were all before
their marked expiration date.

Now internal pressure in a canned product makes me a bit nervous.
Does anyone know if this is normal for Edme DMS?  Is it just a
packaging fluke, or is there a legitimate reason that the contents are
under pressure?  Am I just being excessively cautious, or does it
sound like these cans might have been spoiled?

_John_
keane at cs.rutgers.edu

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Date: Wed, 12 Oct 94 09:43:10 EDT
From: Bob_McIlvaine at keyfile.com
Subject: Holy Aeration!

I just thought I'd echo the post about using a tube
with holes near the end to aerate wort.

I simply drilled 4 small holes in the plastic tube about
4 inches from the end. As the wort flows from my
boiler to the fermenter it creates a suction at each
hole pulling lots of air into the stream and creating
lots of foam.

Used this method fer years, no contamination, no
HSA (the wort is already cool), just lots of aeration
and quick fermentation starts.

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Date: Tue, 11 Oct 94 17:37:23 EDT
From: CliffR3500 at aol.com
Subject: Easymasher (TM) questions

Hello All,

I was wondering if anyone out there has tried an EasyMasher by  Jack
Schmidling Productions. James Spence in the Summer 1994 issue of Zymurgy
seemed to give it a pretty favorable review. I was wondering what the opinion
of other brewers was. Are the comments made in the review accurate? 

> These first runnings were incredibly clear. In fact not a single particle
of grain >was visible. I was truly amazed at this efficiency.

>The straining system is so efficient it is unnecessary to be overly
concerned about >a properly set grain bed, channeling of the grain or a set
mash.

Does the EasyMasher work well enough to minimize if not eliminate the need to
recirculate the wort? What size mash-tuns do you use with it? What are the
impressions of users out there in homebrew land? Please e-mail privately, I
don't want to start a bunch of hoopla over acertain product, I am just
curious and thinking about buying one. 

Cliff
CliffR3500 at aol.com




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Date: Wed, 12 Oct 1994 09:55:18 -0400 (EDT)
From: PARENT at ERMA.CC.DENISON.EDU
Subject: Did I goof?


Greetings to all on the HBD.  I'm a new brewer who has been reading the HBD
for about 2 months.  I have a question about my latest batch (my second).
Please forgive in advance if I seem a bit naive, but I'm just trying to learn 
all I can about this great hobby.  My wife and I brewed a Holiday Ale last
weekend (Wheat based, with cinnamon, orange peels, pumpkin - looks and smells
great).  We pitched with dry Edme yeast and got a lot of krausen development
within 24 hours.  I guess we filled the carboy a little too full initially, and
did not leave enough room for foam and other blowoff, because the day after we
pitched, the rubber stopper was blown clear acroos the room by the built up
pressure.  Luckily, I was home when it happened and was able to minimize (I 
think) the damage.  I poured about one to two cups of liquid off the top to 
allow more room for foam.  My problem is this:  Almost immediately after I did
that, very little additional foam was produced.  I'm concerned that when I 
dumped the beer off the top of the carboy, I dumped most of the still active
yeast along with it.  Can this happen?  I had thought that the yeast would be
mixed throughout the brew in the carboy, but it looks like that may not be the
case.  Any ideas?  Should I re-pitch more yeast?  Leave it alone, relax, not
worry, etc.?  

Any information/guidance/advice would be helpful.  Private email is fine.

TIA,

Tom Parent
Parent at cc.denison.edu

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Date: Wed, 12 Oct 94 09:02:04 EDT
From: 12-Oct-1994 0858 -0400 <ferguson at zendia.enet.dec.com>
Subject: Beer Stone: a problem with cask-conditioning?

One thing i do is brew, then ferment until i'm within 2-5 pts of FG, and
rack to cornelius kegs.  sort of cask-conditioning, if you will.  

Is beer stone a problem here?  i certainly would not want to trash my
corny kegs!

jc

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Date: Wed, 12 Oct 94 8:17:36 MDT
From: npyle at hp7013.ecae.StorTek.COM
Subject: Est. IBUs R Good / Some Followups

David Sapsis writes:

>many!) sources of variability.  I have found that good note-keeping goes a
>long way to explain flavor profiles.  Although I personally believe that
>there are so many sources of variability in determining actual hop
>utilization rates that comparisons of *estimated* IBU's to be meaningless,
>the relative (percieved) effect as you change hop schedules within your own
>brewery are a great source of information on hop effects.

I agree that good note-taking is key, but I disagree heartily that "there are
so many sources of variability in determining actual hop utilization rates
that comparisons of *estimated* IBUs to be meaningless".  Information is
valuable; if you know how to use it, it is not meaningless.  Do you think you
could replicate a beer better knowing:

A) Used: Cascades and Willamettes, OR
B) Used: Cascades to bitter and flavor at 30 IBU (est.) and Willamettes at
         knock out.

I think I would choose B, because there is more information.  I'd take the 30
IBU as a reference point, taste the beer, and go from there.  There is value
in the estimation, especially if you know that Rager's formulae were used,
for example.  Knowing that, and knowing how well Rager's formulae do in my
brewery, I can do pretty well.  I'm not claiming the 30 IBU is correct, nor
that I can hit 30 IBU (actual) but it would get me in the ballpark.  Maybe
only 2 iterations are required rather than 3 or 4.  MHO.

**

Mike Morton writes:

>Is there a more efficient use of the copper tubing without going to the
>trouble to make a counterflow system?  I worry (oops, didn't mean to use
>the 'W' word <g>) about infection with an immersion chiller.

That's funny, most people worry about cleaning a chiller that has the wort go
through the INside.  At least with an immersion chiller you can see the
outside.  It goes into the hot wort, sanitizing it pretty quickly.  That
said, I use a CF chiller so the wort doesn't "see" the grungy air of my
garage.  I sanitize and cap my fermenter in the kitchen (much cleaner, yes!)
and when the wort fills it, the positive pressure pushes that air out.  The
CF chiller also allows me to use a hop back when I so desire.  I use
iodophor, boiling water, and an occasional vinegar rinse to clean out my
chiller.

This gives me a chance to followup on something I discussed long ago, the
length of my CF chiller.  I recently shortened it to about 20' (from 30') and
as I suspected, it still works great.  This is with cold Colorado water,
granted, but it allows me to drain 5 gallons of wort in about 15 minutes.
Before, it took about 30 minutes with the valve wide open because of the all
the back pressure of 30' of 3/8" Cu tubing.  Now, I have more control.  I can
adjust the flow of wort as well as water to get the results I like.

Another followup from long ago:  I claimed that dumping your hot "waste"
water on the lawn wouldn't hurt a thing, saying that I've seen people dump
boiling water on weeds with little effect.  A couple of people took me to
task over this claim, so I went and proved it to myself.  I took a gallon or
so of near boiling water and dumped it on some weeds.  A week later:  yup, I
wuz wrong:  they were dead.  The original discussion had to do with using the
cooling water, which isn't usually too outrageously hot, but I'd say practice
on your weeds before using this water on your prized begonias.

Norm npyle at hp7013.ecae.stortek.com

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Date: Wed, 12 Oct 1994 08:38:58 -0600
From: snesbitt at terra.oscs.montana.edu (Stephen Nesbitt)
Subject: Racking To Secondary

>There are two (alleged) reasons for racking to a secondary:
>1. remove the beer from any cold break that made it into the primary, and
>2. remove the yeast from dead yeast.

Perhaps a 3rd reason is to improve clarity(which may be a result of #1). I
find that I have less chill haze problems with my beers which have been
racked to a secondary. It might reflect the fact too that by racking to
secondary I essentially bottle at least a week later than I would otherwise.

Then again, it could be my lucky charm which works for noone else! :-)


Ciao,

 -steve
oapsn at gemini.oscs.montana.edu
"Once is happenstance,
 twice coincidence, 
 three times enemy action" - Ian Fleming(paraphrased)


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Date: 12 Oct 94 14:33:00 GMT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: shipping beer/mashing crystal

Phil writes:
>   I had hoped that someone like the AHA would smooth this process out with
>UPS so that all homebrewers could ship their homebrew without hassle. Alas,
>AHA is in the business of printing magazines not assisting homwbrewers.

If this is important to you, then by all means volunteer to help the AHA
smooth out the beer shipping process.   The AHA is in the business of
running the National Competition, sanctioning homebrew competitions and
organizing the National Conference.  Zymurgy is in the business of printing
magazines.  Both are divisions of the Association of Brewers which includes
a couple of other branches like Brewer's Publications and the Institute of
Brewing Studies.  There are a handful of paid employees in the AoB and all
the rest of the work is done by volunteers.  So...

 ...volunteer!  I believe Norm wants to help too...

************
Patrick writes regarding Crystal malts:
>Are all the starches really pre-converted?  Or just most?  Or only
>some?  Seems like Miller says to mash it because it contains some
>residual starches that need to be converted.  Then again, I've never

I'll bet that back when Miller was writing his book, there were only
pretty crappy crystal malts available to the homebrewer and maybe that
is why he felt there was enough unconverted starch in crystal to bother
mashing it.  I believe that in quality crystal malts (look for a recognized
maltster, not Acme Seed Company) the unconverted starch is minimal.  So much
so that you can ignore it.  If there is some unconverted starch, then it's
all the more important to not raise the temperature too high so you don't
burst those starch granules.  Keep the temp of the steeping below 170F.

Al.

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Date: Wed, 12 Oct 94 08:42:46 PDT
From: hollen at megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck)
Subject: Re: RIMS and EasyMasher

>>>>> "Greg" == STU GJCARRIE <So> writes:

Greg> Could someone explain what RIMS and EasyMasher are?  I see those
Greg> terms on here quite a bit and am curious...

RIMS stands for Recirculating Infusion Mash System.  An infusion is a
steeping in hot water to extract water soluble compounds (dictionary
definition).

A RIMS system consists of a mash tun with a false bottom (or you could
use an EasyMasher), a pump, an electric water heater element in a
heater chamber, a temperature controller for the heater element and a
return wort manifold.

The grains and water are put in the mash tun.  The pump sucks liquid
out of the grain bed through the false bottom, pumps it past the
heater which adds heat, and the return manifold returns the liquied
back to the top of the grainbed, under the level of the liquid to
prevent hot side aeration.

The recirculation of the wort uses the grain bed as a natural filter
and produces crystal clear wort about 20 minutes into the mashing
process.

An EasyMasher (TM) is bulkhead fitting and valve with a screen
attached.  It is used like a false bottom to allow a liquid to be
drawn off the bottom of a grain bed while leaving all the grain
behind.

dion

Dion Hollenbeck (619)675-4000x2814     Email: hollen at megatek.com
Staff Software Engineer     Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California

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Date: Wed, 12 Oct 94 09:13:43 -0600
From: Mark <markc at ssd.fsi.com>
Subject: rhizome storage

Now, that I've ended my first season as a 'Hops Rancher', what do I
do with these rhizomes during the winter?  I grew them in pots of soil,
so can I just put the pots in the basement?

Should they be kept: dry, wet, in the dark, in plastic, in paper sacks.....?

Thanks in advance......mark


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Date: Wed, 12 Oct 1994 09:18:28 -0700
From: Richard B. Webb <rbw1271 at appenine.ca.boeing.com>

Subject: step mash with steam

In HBD 1550 (now there's a milestone for those of us with 10 fingers),
"Marshall.Jay" <marshall#d#jay at ssdgwy.mdc.com> asks about the BT article
that describes steam injection for mash heating. Having read that article
and thought about how I would do it, I'm prepared to take the heat by
answering his query.

Essentially, one must vent steam under pressure into the mash. The rest is
detail. I have a pressure cooker that has a stem on top. This is usually
where the small weight for increasing the pressure goes. For steam
injection, a hose of some sort must be clamped onto this stem. This would
channel steam through the tube to wherever you want it to exit.
Problems follow. What kind of tubing to use? Most types of tubing would
allow condensation inside of it, leading to 1) loss of heat, and 2)
burned fingers. Metal comes to mind, but seems as if that would be too
inflexible, while plastic might leach out chemical smells and taste.
There would need to be some sort of handle, so that fingers and
heat do not come into contact. The figure in the article implies that
copper tubing is used, and is not moved around during the heating
process, which kind of settles the two points I raised above. But who
could avoid wanting to use the steam output as a stirring spoon?
People with very callused hands...

I found replacement parts for my pressure cooker at a local
hardware store. A new seal for the lid and a new weight for the stem.
Considering that I bought the cooker at a local thrift store, the
replacement parts cost more than the cooker body. I find the cooker
to be very handy for pressure heating wort samples for later yeast
cultivation. However, petri dishes will melt. This is the voice
of experience talking. I had the dish in a baggie, with a rubber
band around it to keep the lid on the base, and the durn thing
just collapsed onto itself. It looked like a monkey's fist. That
can go into my list of equipment distroyed since last posting...

"The dead are comming back from the grave,
and they're voting Republican!"
    Bart Simpson

Not me. I'm
Rich Webb   rbw1271 at appenine.ca.boeing.com

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Date: Wed, 12 Oct 1994 13:18:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: RE:open fermenters

Cliff writes:

<On the subject of open fermenters, all this talk has convinced me to give it
<a shot on the batch I am brewing tomorrow. I am going to try to cover the
<carboy with some para-film to keep the nasties out but let air move around.

Open fermentation is the only way I currently brew.  I like to be able
to skim trub, yeast, and whatever is scrubbed out of the fermenter, and
it does help to make yeast harvesting easier.  If anyone is interested
in a simple article I wrote for Zymurgy on open ferementation, email me.
If the response warrents, Ill post it.  
 *****
<I am looking for some big fermenters and I was wondering other what other
<homebrewers opinion on what the best way to go would be. I am looking in the
<range of 15 gallons. A homebrew store nearby sells 15 gallon glass carboys
<and used SS kegs. Big fermenter users, what are you thoughts on the subject,
<which would you prefer? Thanks in advance!
  
 I would rather have the SS one.  I wouldnt want to work with such
 a large glass container, and with SS fermenters one can scrub it
 clean and sanitize using hot water or iodophor. 

 **********
 On another topic.  What types of "plastics" are food grade?  We need
 to construct a large hop bag for dry hopping and are interested in the
 types of poly_xxx , etc that qualify as food grade.

 Good brewing,
 Jim Busch


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Date: Wed, 12 Oct 1994 10:59:17 -0700
From: especkma at reed.edu (Erik Speckman)
Subject: Gran's Cider and the Law, mostly grain brewing.

Dick Dunn and Bob Paolino talked a bit about the legal wranglings over
Grant's cider.  I thought I would throw in a little information.

The owner of the homebrew shop I frequent had heard credible rumors that
the Feds had offered Grant a few settlements over the back taxes on the
Cider.
According to the rumors, the size of the settlement was "reasonable" and he
was curious as to why Bert Grant was holding out.

Well, he was in one of Seattle's alehouses recently and saw that Bert Grant
was there so he decided to get the story from the horses mouth.

Grant said something to the effect of "I am an old man and by the time the
case makes it through court I will be dead, I don't care what happens
then!"


On to other subjects.  I would like to encourage people who are thinking of
making the step to patial mashes or all grain.  For my last few batches I
have done small partial mashes.  It didn't really save me much money on
extract but it helped me get a feel for conducting a mash while giving me
some room for error.

For this last batch I decided to go all out.  I was brewing an IPA and I
decided to go for it and planned to get more than half of my fermentables
from grain.  I spent less than $10 dollars and built a lauter tun out of a
5 gal. plasitc pail, a slotted copper pipe manifold and a spigot.  I
scrounged the bucket from a teryaki joint, the most expensive part was the
spigot (overpriced).

I mashed 7 lbs of grain in my brew kettle and kept it warm in the oven
during the conversion stage.  I only sparged until I collected about 4.5
gal. but I still got about 30 pts. per pound of grain.  My pot wasn't big
enough to boil all five gal without a boilover so I kept the overflow
simmering in a smaller pot and added it to the main kettle as wort boiled
away.  It took about an hour to get it all into the main kettle.

All in all, it worked great.  I saved at least $7 by using grain in place
of most of the extract.  I figure that I can brew a lighter beer
(1.045-1.050) using only grain with this method and save $10 on my next
batch.  I will use a few more pounds of malt and undersparge as before.  I
may not use the grain as efficiently as I could but it is still cheaper
than using extract.  It made my brewing day about 3 hours longer but it
only took about 1.5 hours extra attention, and it was fun.


______________________________________________________________________
Erik A. Speckman       Seattle, Washington      Good Brain Doesn't Suck
especkma at reed.edu                                  especkma at halcyon.com



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Date: Wed, 12 Oct 94 14:21:04 EDT
From: swood at nhq.scs.ag.gov (Stacey A. Wood)
Subject: homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com



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Date: Wed, 12 Oct 1994 11:47:31 +0800
From: barry at odf.UCSD.EDU (Barry Nisly)
Subject: Racking / More Racking / Wyeast 1338


>From: korz at iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
>Subject: filtration/when to rack
>
> [some good stuff on cold break and yeast deleted - Thanks though :-]
>
>Oops.  I forgot to answer the second question.  When you racked, the lower
>pressure on the beer at the top of the rackikng tube caused some of the
>CO2 that had been dissolved in your beer to come out of solution.  Once
>you finished racking, the yeast needed to saturate the beer with CO2 again
>before you saw activity in your airlock.  I'll bet there was some increased
>airlock activity just after racking (CO2 coming out of solution) followed by
>a slowdown while the CO2 got resaturated and then restart of "normal" activity.
>
>Al.

I would say that the velocity of the beer through the tube caused a local
drop in pressure which caused the CO2 to come out of solution.  FWIW, I
did the primary in a plastic bucket with spigot.

***

>From: Jim Grady <grady at hpangrt.an.hp.com>
>Subject: Racking to Secondary
>
>In HBD #1549, Al Korzonas states:
>
>> There are two (alleged) reasons for racking to a secondary:
>>1. remove the beer from any cold break that made it into the primary, and
>>2. remove the yeast from dead yeast.
>
>Another reason is that racking helps to clear the beer.  If I rack to
 <snip>
>While Al is correct that a good ale can be made without a secondary
>fermentor, I personally find it is worthwhile to use one for all my ales
>and lagers.

I rack to a glass carboy because I never know when I'll have the time to 
bottle.  If it sits a while, no worries.

One more thing:  am I being impatient or does Wyeast 1338 just keep going, 
and going, and going (picture the Energizer bunny traipsing around my 
carboy)...

Barry Nisly
bnisly at ucsd.edu

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Date: Wed, 12 Oct 94 13:54:11 CDT
From: djones at iex.com (Douglas R. Jones)
Subject: Creating a Celis Pale Bock Clone

OK folks, I need some help. Thanks to a couple of brewer's of Belgian
brewski's I have what should be a pretty reasonable recipe for a clone of
Celis's pale Bock. However I need some help with which Wyeast would be
appropriate. The Belgian White I think is too Lemony (Pale Bock ain't no
White or Grand Cru!) and the other Belgian seems to have a spotty
reputation. Any ideas would be appreciated!

TIA,
Doug
- -------------------------------------------------------
'I am a traveler of        |    Douglas R. Jones
     both Time and Space'  |    IEX Corporation
       Led Zeppelin        |    (214)301-1307
                           |    djones at iex.com
- -------------------------------------------------------


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Date: Wed, 12 Oct 1994 15:02:54 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jarrod Loewen <jloewen at cc.UManitoba.CA>
Subject: Re: Browsing the HBD

 ...and Aidan "Krazy Krausen Kropping Kiwi" Heerdegen spoke unto them:
> 
> David Draper wrote:
> 
> >Quick comment re: Herr Coyote's comment on addresses at the end: 
> >the way I get around the usual email system characteristic of 
> >being able to go only forward through the message (in this case, 
> >the HBD), is use the "reply" option and when it asks "copy 
> >message?", answer yes.  Then the whole issue is read in and you 
> >can use whatever editor you have to move up & down.  When done, 
> >just exit and DON'T send the message!!  
> 
> *or* ..  you could use a superior mail program like elm, save it 
> to your HDB folder, then edit that folder with the Maltmill (tm) 
> of editors ...  vi ...  and then still be able to browse through 
> your edited HBD's like a mail folder ...  
> 
Better yet is to use a script to convert the HBD to a mail folder format.
Then you can pipe the digest through it via the | option.  Email me for a
perl script that does this, if ya'd like.


- -- - -- Jarrod J. Loewen -- Systems Operator -- University of Manitoba -- - --

ObCoyote:) jloewen at cc.umanitoba.ca

Green   "Why does my life have to be so small, yet death is forever.   One Of
 Day           And does forever have a life to call it's own?"         My Lies

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Date: 12 Oct 94 19:37:00 GMT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: Asleep at the switch...

Jeff writes:
>They suggest a recipe of 12 lbs. English malt (or 9 lb. extract), 8 oz 40^ 
>crystal, 8 oz. roasted barley, 2 lbs brown sugar, 2 oz. fuggles  at  4% for 60 
>minutes, 8 or 9 T lactose, 3 oz. blackstrap molasses and 1028 ale yeast for 
>an OG of 1.060.  I have my doubts about this recipe.  Figuring on a modest 
>30 points*gal/lb for 12.5 lbs of malt and 45 pgp for 2 lbs. of sugar 
>(ignoring the lactose and molasses) would give 1.093!  That would be 
>peculiar.  Their figures give only 16.8 pgp! 
> 
>Has anyone else noticed this kind of error in the new Zymurgy?  I've just 
>skimmed it, but the article on brewing with oats has one recipe (Door County 
>White) with no oats, six lbs. of grain for OG 1.060; oatmeal stout with 9 
>lbs. of pale grains and an OG of 1.036 ( 20 pgp); and "Oat Sheaf Special" 
>with 33 lbs. of grain for 12 gal for OG 1.050 (18 pgp).  I think the recipes 
>must have been switched, but there's still way too much grain.  Somebody's 
>asleep at the switch in Boulder!  When I've finished the issue, I'll write 
>them. 

No, nobody sleepy in Boulder on this one -- sleepy in Palos Hills... me!

I must take reponsibility on this one.  It was up to me to check that all
the batch sizes/extraction values were correct and I dropped the ball.
This morning, I randomly checked the %efficiency of a handful of the 76
recipes and most were in the normal 80-90% range, however, one was way low
and one way high.  I suspect the batch sizes were incorrect or possibly,
in the case of the Oats article, that the low extraction was due to the
home-malted grain that Michael uses.  If indeed this is the case, I should
have checked this with the author and it should have been noted in the
article.

You can be sure that I will do my best to not miss checking extraction and
bittering validity on any Zymurgy recipe in the future.

Al.
Zymurgy Technical Editorial Staff

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Date: Wed, 12 Oct 1994 16:47:21 -0500 (CDT)
From: gellym at aviion.persoft.com (brewing chemist Mitch)
Subject: re: hops for (p)lambics

In HBD 1550, Robert (Rmarsh747 at aol.com) asks:

> I am thinking about making a lambic beer. Does anyone know of a source for
> old hops? Or should I plan to make this two years down the road and buy a bag
> now to age?

I have gotten into the habit now of buying the old hops from our local shop, 
and putting them in paper bags to age. You don't want to wait two years to 
brew a beer that will be another two years before you drink it, so.....
what some plambic brewers (myself included) have done is to bake their hops.

Yes, bake. As in spreading them out on cookie sheets and baking at a low temp
(225-275F) for an hour or so. Big caveat here: clear spouses, pets, roommates,
children, etc. out of the house before you do this. Even with old stale hops,
the ensuing aroma is nothing less than overpowering. Use serious ventilation. 
I'm not kidding. I baked half a pound of year-old Tettnang, which I thought
was pretty lifeless at the time, only to discover that there was a LOT of
aromatics left. I can only guess how rowdy fresh hops would be. I personally
love the smell of hops (hey, who here doesn't?), but it was almost too much
for me. Be sure to turn them from time to time so you do not burn any.

When done, just spread them out on newspapers and let cool. That should get
you going for your first batch. In the meantime, when you get the chance, 
buy some old hops from your local supplier and just put them in paper grocery
bags to dry out. In the summertime, you can put the grocery bags in the back
seat of your car for a wicked air-freshener. 

Cheers,

Mitch

- -- 
|                       - Mitch Gelly -                        | Zack Norman |
|software QA specialist, unix systems administrator, zymurgist,|     is      |
| AHA/HWBTA beer judge, & president of the Madison Homebrewers |  Sammy in   |
|      - gellym at aviion.persoft.com - gelly at persoft.com -       | Chief Zabu  |

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Date: 12 Oct 1994 18:34:35 -0500 (EST)
From: "HEATH GULDEN, MD; BEEPER 3480 AT MGH" <GULDEN at HELIX.MGH.HARVARD.EDU>
Subject: joining the list

SUB homebrew R. Heath Gulden, MD

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Date: Wed, 12 Oct 94 18:49:41 EST
From: kwh at roadnet.ups.com (Harralson, Kirk)
Subject: 

>From the responses I have received on my post on shipping alcohol, I need to 
clear up a few things.  First, most people thought I was taking a 
holier-than-thou attitude about breaking the law.  I did not intend to do this, 
and if I came off this way, I apologize.  I honestly don't care who does what, 
as long as it does not affect me.  Secondly, I stated that we (United Parcel 
Service) were federally regulated by the DOT, which is true.  However, after 
talking with some of our contacts at the DOT, they evidently let this issue be 
dealt with on the state level.  Again, I apologize for this misinformation.  I 
talked with the BATF and the Controller's office of Alcohol and Tobacco.  I 
asked them specifically about the various "beer or wine of the month club" 
shippers, some of whom use UPS.  They told me that they were very aware of these
companies, and if they shipped to a state that required an Alcohol 
Transportation Permit (which UPS does not have), they were shipping illegally.  
They are currently looking into this for two reasons -- first they don't get tax
revenues on it; second, they aren't sure the person receiving the shipment is of
age.  The states that allow INTERstate shipments of alcohol are California, 
Colorado, Idaho, Illinois, Missouri, New Mexico, Oregon and Wisconsin.  For the 
person who posted they shipped inside the state of California, that also would 
be an illegal shipment.

Researching this topic within UPS has been a real education.  We clearly do not 
speak with one voice on this issue, which frustrates me just as much, if not 
more, than it does anyone else.  The one consistent answer that I got was that 
we should not accept any alcoholic beverages.  I realize that this is not 
followed consistently in different locations.  If a driver knowingly accepts a 
shipment containing alcohol, he does not realize our limitations.  I still 
disagree with mislabeling a package to get around this issue, as was suggested 
earlier in the HBD.  (This was the issue I was originally trying to address.)

>Actually, according to the BATF (as I stated in a previous post that probably
>never made it out), it is only illegal to ship alcoholic beverages via the
>USPS.   .....(other text deleted)

When I spoke to the BATF about this, they said the law on home brewing 
specifically stated that it is legal for private consumption only, and should 
never be shipped out of the person's residence in the first place.  He had never
heard of a homebrew competition, and was not sure of their stance on it.  Does 
anyone know how far the specific language "private consumption only" goes?

Kirk Harralson
kwh at roadnet.ups.com


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Date: Wed, 12 Oct 94 13:51:46 PDT
From: ELQ1%Maint%HBPP at bangate.pge.com
Subject: Abbreviations

    
    Since someone asked a while back, here are just a few abbreviations used  
   in the HBD    
 
      T.I.A.          Thanks in advance
      Y.M.M.V.        Your methods may vary
      R.I.M.S.        Ricirculating infusion mash system
      W.T.F.          What the [insert word here]?
      I.M.H.O.        In my humble opinion
      H.S.A.          Hot side aeration
      F.A.Q.          Frequently asked questions
      B.T.W.          By the way
      I.B.U.          International bittering units
      F.W.I.W.        For whats its worth
      R.D.W.H.A.H.B   Relax, don't worry have a home brew!
      E.S.B.          Extra Stout/Strong Bitter???
                      There, now maybe that will keep some of us from being
      H.U.A.!

       Ed Quier         ELQ1 at PGE.COM       707-444-0718

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Date: Thu, 13 Oct 1994 07:06:49 --300
From: gilad at orbotech.co.il (Gilad Barak)
Subject: Brewing supply stores

Redaers in the bay area, can you please send me the names of good brewing
supply stores in the Santa-Clara, Palo Alto, Stanford area.
A friend will be there and I will take the opportunity to have him bring
some supply.
Please send private e-mail.
Thanks,
Gilad Barak
gilad at orbotech.co.il

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1551, 10/13/94