FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Recipes (Christmas Ale and Rick's Wicked Ale) ("Rick Gontarek, Ph.D.")
  Banana Flavor Problem (Ester?) (DOUGLAS N. JOHNSON)
  Help!  Technology exceeds understanding! (CLAY)
  private consumption (Dick Dunn)
  Sub-Standard Hops? (TJWILLIA)
  1338 (npyle)
  Moving full kegs (Spencer.W.Thomas)
  TinyDave at aol.com (Domenick Venezia)
  Going All-Grain ("Craig Amundsen")
  Legality of Brewing on College Campuses (eric addkison pendergrass)
  Hop Types ("David Sapsis")
  GABF Denver Map ("John R. Mellby")
  Temperature Controller (Dan Klein)
  Acro-s / Kegs/ Cider (COYOTE)
  Oh yeah... (COYOTE)
  Flame de-fusers (ELQ1)
  Whole vs pellet hops (Bob Jones)
  DME vs. Liquid extract (Mark)
  Good stuff / chlorine & stainless (Jeff Frane)
  Using existing bottled beer as culture starter (* PF03 UNDEFINED)
  Gravity help (Douglas R. Jones)
  A little CA beer law ("DEV::SJK")
  Chilled Out ("Morton, Mike")
  Yeast info? (BToddL69)



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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 7:38:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Rick Gontarek, Ph.D." <GONTAREK at FCRFV1.NCIFCRF.GOV>
Subject: Recipes (Christmas Ale and Rick's Wicked Ale)

Hello everyone.  A few months back I asked anyone with suggestions for a 
Pete's wicked Ale clone to comtact me.  I received a few recipes, but as
usual, I adapt them according to my own intuition.  I respectfully
submit, then, my attempt to clone Pete's.  I call it...

Rick's Wicked Ale

8.5 lbs American 2-row pale malt
1 lb Crystal malt (40L)
1/2 lb Cara-pils malt
1/3 lb Chocolate malt
1/2 ounce Cascade hops (boil)
1/2 ounce Brewer's Gold hops (boil)
1/2 ounce Cascade hops (finish)
300 ml yeast starter- Wyeast 1056

Mash grains in 3.5 gallons of water at 75 degrees Celsius (brings temp
to 67 degrees C).  Hold at 67 degrees C for one hour until conversion is
complete.  Sparge with 5 gallons of water at 77 degrees C.  Boil sweet
wort for one hour with boiling hops.  Turn off heat, add finishing hops
and steep for 15 minutes.  Cool, strain into fermenter, bring volume up to
5.5 gallons.  Pitch yeast.

***Notes***
Someone suggested I use Chinook hops, but my bottle of Pete's said that
it was made with Brewer's gold hops.  The o.g. was 1.050, f.g. was 1.015.
After two months in the bottle, a side by side comparison was made, and
I proudly proclaim that my beer comes close.  The chocolate flavor was
very fresh.  Others suggested dry-hopping, but I preferred the chocolatey
aroma to the beer in this case.


There has also been some requests for spiced ales.  Here is my version
of last year's Christmas brew:

1993 Christmas Ale

3.3 lb can of Munton and Fison Amber unhopped malt syrup
3 lbs dry amber malt extract
2 lbs light honey
1 lb crystal malt
1/2 lb chocolate malt
5 cinnamon sticks
2 tsp allspice
1 tsp nutmeg
1 tsp whole cloves
4 ounces grated ginger (fresh!!)
grated rinds from 6 oranges (*rinds*, not pith...stay away from the white part)
2 ounces Tettnang hops (boil)
1/2 ounce Saaz hops (finish)

Add malt extracts to 3 gallons of water.  Steep grains on heat until
just before wort comes to a boil.  Remove grains.  Add boiling hops, boil
for one hour.  Add spices, ginger, and orange peel, and boil for 15 minutes.
Turn off heat, add finishing hops, steep for fifteen minutes.  Cool,
strain into fermenter, bring volume up to 5.5 gallons.  Pitch Wyeast 1056.

**Notes**
There has been some debate in the past over the amount of spices to use.
This is purely a metter of personal preference.  I wanted a brew with
a pronounced flavor of spices, but not strong enough so as to hit you
between the eyes.  I was very pleased with the results here.  The combination
of spices here gave the brew a terrific aroma and flavor.  I have one bottle
left that I will open this Christmas Eve!!  o.g. 1.054, f.g. 1.015.

Hope somebody enjoys these.  I did!!

Cheers!
Rick Gontarek
Owner/Brewmaster of the Major Groove Picobrewery
Baltimore, MD
gontarek at ncifcrf.gov

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Date: Tue, 18 Oct 94 08:33:38 -0400
From: doug%niaaa.dnet at dxi.nih.gov (DOUGLAS N. JOHNSON)
Subject: Banana Flavor Problem (Ester?)

Hello fellow brewers!

  I have a brewing problem I would like some help with.  About nine
months ago I brewed a batch of pilsner from a kit, and the final product
had a very strong banana flavor.  I figured that this was due to the
dried yeast I used that came with the kit, the kit itself, and/or the
warm (73F) fermentation temp.  I had forced myself to forget this
nasty episode and contiued brewing until...

  My latest batch of beer was to be a moderatly hopped amber ale.  I used
briess malt extracts (gold and amber), a variety of hops, and the american
ale version of WYeast that I had increased in 1 Qt. of starter.  I pitched
the active starter, and waited for over 36 hours for any real fermentation
to start (I usually get VERY active fermentations within 8 hours with
this procedure).  Now here is the rub, after five days of activity,
I racked into my secondary, and of course, took a sample.  This beer
could just as easily been a banana shake as an ale.  This time I hope
it is not the temp. because I pitched at 68F and the room was always
between 62F and 68F.  I know it was not the cheap kit, because it
was not a kit, and I hope it wasn't the yeast, because WYeast ain't
cheap and usually gives me execellent results.  Also, I shook the carboy
in the usual fashion, so I don't think it was an airation problem.

  So, is the banana flavor an ester?  Why did I get it?  Blame the yeast
or some other wee nasty?  Help!

Doug
doug at niaaa.niaaa.nih.gov

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Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 08:37:17 -0500 (EST)
From: CLAY at prism.clemson.edu
Subject: Help!  Technology exceeds understanding!


I've been aging pale ales in the fridge, 'cause that's where I fermented 'em.
I'm now out of room.  Anecdotal evidence from organoleptic bioassay of room-
temperature-aged pale ale vs reefer-aged pale ale solicited via private e-mail.
TIA.

$.02 worth re "law enforcement types:"  upholding one's oath to enforce (not,
except in the very limited sense of ignoring insignificant violations) the 
law is honorable behavior, not jack-booted fascism.  pardon me while I slip 
into my asbestos skivvies.
regardds,
C

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Date: 17 Oct 94 23:30:52 MDT (Mon)
From: rcd at raven.eklektix.com (Dick Dunn)
Subject: private consumption

Kirk Harralson wrote:
> When I spoke to the BATF about this, they said the law on home brewing 
> specifically stated that it is legal for private consumption only, and
> should never be shipped out of the person's residence in the first
> place...

Pity.  I don't doubt Kirk's research on this; it's just a pity the BATF has
folks who can't answer questions like that.  (FWIW, the last time I called
the local BATF office, they were both knowledgable and helpful in clearing
up some questions.  You think homebrew is confusing, try figuring out
mead!)

The law is actually reasonably clear, and not all that complicated.  The
whole part about "Beer for Personal or Family Use" occupies less than a
page in the federal regulations.

>...He had never heard of a homebrew competition, and was not sure
> of their stance on it.  Does anyone know how far the specific language
> "private consumption only" goes?

The beer is for "personal or family consumption" [subject to whatever laws
about who's old enough to drink it].  There is explicit provision for
competition.  Oh, what the hell...here's the whole thing about removing it
from where it's made.  This is 27 CFR 25.206.  Replace "Sec" with the
"section" symbol.  [Maybe 27 CFR 25.205-207 should go in a FAQ?]

"Sec 25.206 Removal of beer.

"Beer made under Sec 25.205 [the section stating who can brew and how much
they may make] may be removed from the premises where made for personal or
family use including use at organized affairs, exhbitions or competitions
such as homemaker's contests, tastings or judging.  Beer removed under this
section may not be sold or offered for sale."

That's it for 25.206.  Doesn't seem that complicated, now, does it?  Does
seem to allow for competition and contests, doesn't it?  Folks who are
supposed to know the regs *should* be able to sort it out and give you the
straight skinny, methinks...unfortunately, the few relevant paragraphs are
buried in several hundred pages of babble.  (Then too, as others have
noted, you've still got to figure out state and local laws.)

ObGripe, to the dude who thinks the shipping thread is spew:  If you ever
make a beer good enough to share or compete, the laws and regs will matter.
- ---
Dick Dunn    rcd at eklektix.com   -or-   raven!rcd    Boulder, Colorado USA
   ...Simpler is better.

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Date: Tue,  18 Oct 94 09:46:46 EDT
From: <TJWILLIA at vm.occ.cc.mi.us>
Subject: Sub-Standard Hops?

I ran across an interesting item in the November issue of All About Beer.
Seems that the hops us lowly homebrewers purchase are nothing more than
rejects from the big guy's.  Could this be true?  Considering the poor use
of those superior hops, perhaps the situation should be reversed.  If we are
being forced to purchase castoff hops, I would encourage those growing their
own to do more of same and share or trade their efforts with other HB'ers.
At the rate this hobby is growing, we should demand the very best quality
in our endeavors.  Hop-heads unite!

Tom Williams
(tjwillia at occ,bitnet)


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Date: Tue, 18 Oct 94 8:07:16 MDT
From: npyle at hp7013.ecae.StorTek.COM
Subject: 1338

Regarding the Wyeast 1338, I have a batch of strong ale bubbling away with
this yeast.  I pitched a good half-gallon starter just past high krauesen and
aerated pretty well with my venturi thingimabob, aka copper tube with holes
drilled for air.  After 10 days, there was still a little foam but things had
slowed considerably.  I thought that I'd keg it and let it finish in the keg.
I measured the SG:  1.030!  It started at around 1.060, but had a long mash
while I went to work one afternoon.  I expect it to finish at least at 1.015.
The racking kick-started it and it's now bubbling away at a pretty good rate
(I put a hose on the gas line of the keg and down into a bottle of water).
It's so active at this point I guess I'll have to rack it again to get off of
the yeast.  Conclusion:  yes, it *does* keep going, and going...

Cheers,
Norm

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Date: Tue, 18 Oct 94 10:43:21 EDT
From: Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu
Subject: Moving full kegs

David Smucker wrote about Temp Control in Kegs Part 2: 
 > Before a discussion of building the COOLOMATIC a few comments on handling 
 > full 15.5 kegs.  They are easy to roll around or slide on the smooth 
 > concrete floor of my shop but don't try lifting them and setting them 
 > into something, at least not by yourself.

I recently saw a Miller (US megabrew) delivery man moving (full) kegs
from the truck into a store. The kegs were stacked on their sides in
the truck, with pallets between layers.  He had a round rubber pad, a
bit larger than the diameter of a keg and several (3-4) inches thick
(about 10cm for the rest of you :-).  He would place this on the
sidewalk next to the truck, and would then pull the keg from its
resting place (at about his head level) so that it fell, bottom first,
onto the pad.  He "caught" it on the bounce and wrestled it onto his
two-wheeled dolly.  This was going fine until he took out the last keg
on a pallet.  As the keg came down, so did the pallet.  He jumped
pretty quickly, so maybe he was expecting it.

In general, it seemed like a workable system.  Explains why those kegs
are sometimes pretty beat up, though.

=Spencer in Ann Arbor, MI

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Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 07:54:56 +48000
From: Domenick Venezia <venezia at zgi.com>
Subject: TinyDave at aol.com

- ------------------------------
In HBD #1555 TinyDave at aol.com requests our public restroom graffitti.

Let's teach this little mass mailing twerp a lesson.  Note that he
specifically asks that you mail to an address other than his aol.com
address.  I am unsure of the AOL traffic tarriffs but they could not
be pleased if TinyDave received say, 10 copies of HBD #1555 from each
of us.  Also complaints to the AOL management if one knows how to get
a hold of them might help. 

Let's inundate this vermin!  Mail Megabytes of junk to TinyDave at aol.com

Domenick Venezia
ZymoGenetics, Inc.
Seattle, WA
venezia at zgi.com



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Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 09:56:14 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Craig Amundsen" <amundsen at molbio.cbs.umn.edu>
Subject: Going All-Grain

Hi -

  Over the weekend I performed my first ever all-grain mash. What fun! I 
thought I would share a few of my observations for those extract people out
there contemplating the switch. As a starving grad student my goal was to
get the equipment together for the least amount of money. I already had an
immersion chiller and a big pot for full volume boils. I got put together 
the chiller for about $20. My pot is a cheap enamel on steel canning pot.

  The big thing I needed to come up with was a lauter tun. I like the idea
of the Gott cooler mash/lauter tun set up, but I didn't want to plunk down
the money for one. I built one instead. I got a bucket with a drum tap and 
built a manifold out of CPVC (hot water capable PVC pipe) and insultated the 
whole thing with a cut up cheap ($5) blue sleeping bag pad. The whole thing 
set me back about $25. It works great. I dumped 2 gallons of 170 deg water on 
8 lbs of grain (ground at the shop, so no cost for a mill) and it held at 
152 deg for an hour. 

  Due to (I think) sparging too fast, I didn't have the best efficiency, but 
after boiling I ended up with 4 gallons of 1.046 OG wort, pitched a massive 
starter of 1056 yeast and it was bubbling away within 3 hours.

The moral of the story is: you don't have to spend tons o' money to make an
all-grain setup. If you've been incrementally improving your brewery, it's
actually pretty cheap to make the last step.

 - Craig

PS - I tried Grant's IPA the other day and I thought it tasted like plastic.
     Did I get a bad bottle, or is this the normal flavor?
+-----------------------------+------------------------------------------------+
| Craig Amundsen              | DILBERT - Sometimes I wonder if it's ethical   |
| amundsen at molbio.cbs.umn.edu |           to do these genetic experiments. But |
| (612) 624-2704              |           I rationalize it because it will     |
| 250 Biological Sciences     |           improve the quality of life.         |
| 1445 Gortner Avenue         | DOGBERT - What are you making?                 |
| Saint Paul, MN 55108        | DILBERT - Skunkopotamus.                       |
+-----------------------------+------------------------------------------------+

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Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 11:48:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: eric addkison pendergrass <pendeea3 at wfu.edu>
Subject: Legality of Brewing on College Campuses

Since there have been numerous postings regarding the legality of this or 
that aspect of homebrewing, I thought I'd pose a question I have had for 
awhile now:  Are there any regulations or laws concerning beer brewing 
on college campuses (particularly in, but not limited to NC), aside from 
the individual ones each school may have?


 -Eric-_____________________________________________________________
pendeea3 at wfu.edu                | WWW: http://www.wfu.edu/~pendeea3
pendgrss at whale.st.usm.edu       |
erpendergras at pollux.davidson.edu| 
 


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Date: Tue, 18 Oct 94 09:22:28 CST  
From: "David Sapsis" <dbsapsis at nature.Berkeley.EDU>
Subject: Hop Types


Pursuant to Glenn's querry in HBD 1554 about hop types, I can only state
that I am in complete agreement with his findings.  There is one additional
caveat about reputable sources, however, and this relates to my earlier
posts -- that is I got 5 pounds of fine whole hops out of my back yard.
For my brewery, I have found whole hops work best.  Both in the boil ( I use
a half barrel keg with a copper screen false bottom), and for post-ferment
additions.  I have found the aromatic qualities to be superior, and the
whole hops in the kettle do a marvelous job of filtering break material.

As for using homegrown hops for bittering, I have done so assuming the same
average alpha content as commercial examples of the same cultivars in a
couple of recent batches.  This has worked OK, and given me ballpark level
appropriate hop bitterness.  I am still waiting for Mark Garetz to get a new
bulb for his UV spec to actually do some quantitative analyses on them.  I
had posted of my intention to send some samples to Gail Nickerson at OSU,
but after further thinking about it, I felt I could not afford the costs
associated with getting enough samples to reflect natural variability.  And
again, I think that if you have limited quantities of homegrowns, use them
for aroma.
cheers,
dave
                                  "I like wind-chill better than humidity"
                                                  --John Madden

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Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 11:30:43 -0500
From: "John R. Mellby" <jmellby at Iluvatar.dseg.ti.com>
Subject: GABF Denver Map


With Stephen Hansen's permission, I uploaded a map of the
downtown Denver area.  I put on it where the GABF will be
held (Currigan Hall), as well as the downtown brewpubs,
and micros.  Mind you, I haven't been to the ones which
opened in the last year, so I may be off by a little bit.

The file is "denver.jpg" and I expect SH will put it
in the pub/homebrew/images directory on sierra.stanford.edu,
which is the homebrewing archives.

John R. Mellby               Texas Instruments
jmellby at m2.dseg.ti.com       (214)517-5370<h>  (214)575-6125 <w>



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Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 12:31:02 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dan Klein <dklein at freenet.columbus.oh.us>
Subject: Temperature Controller

Hi all,

I can't seem to find an air conditioner temp controller to  maintain
lager temps in my frig. A brand name and part number would help.  Also, an
idea as to what type of store handles these and price would be nice.

TIA - Cheers Dan

   I Grow My Own Vegetables, Load My Own Ammunition, Brew My Own Beer,
         Kill My Own Meat, Work On My Own Car, & Fix My Own Home. 
       Your Opinions Are Sought, But I'll Make Up My Own Damn Mind.
+++++++++++++++++++++dklein at freenet.columbus.oh.us++++++++++++++++++++++



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Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 11:20:58 -0600 (MDT)
From: COYOTE <SLK6P at cc.usu.edu>
Subject: Acro-s / Kegs/ Cider

   Ed  had some Quier interpretations of abreviations (p-tah- cymbal crash)

>      Y.M.M.V.        Your methods may vary    
>      E.S.B.          Extra Stout/Strong Bitter???
                      
    And WTH (what the heck) was that last one?

I see YMMV as: "Your Mileage May Vary", and ESB as "Extra Special Bitter".
Tickle my toes if I'm wrong.  It'll make me giggle....
 ***
 jeff at neocad.com was asking about keg fittings:

The two major types for 5 gallon soda kegs are PIN and BALL locks.
FWIW:  PINS are used by COKE, and BALLS are used by PEPSI.  (no damned TM, 
not talking 'bout the product anyway!)

You might consider chatting with a friendly local supplier. You may find
them willing to sell MT (empty) kegs/canisters to you.  Possibly even
fittings.   I get CO2 tanks EXCHANGED by a local Pepsi distr. for about $9.50
and they are stuck with the burden of checking the tanks for safety. 
Fine by me!  Plus I know that they come full, I check my scale.
    
That story about $22 for just equalizing pressures!  Talk about bogus!
Expose that MF (mo-fo) -ya know- give one of those info-tainment shows a call!

As for other suppliers:  Foxx Equipt is pretty darn good.  Don't have
the number handy, but ask, and I'll post it, or e-mail.

The fittings can be changed from one keg type to another.
You're looking at about $4-5 for the snap on portion, and about the same
for the fitting on the keg.  You may find these priced significantly higher
at your local homebrew supply store.  Go figure!

There is also the whole class of REAL BEER kegs.  Sankey et al.
You can get fittings for these too, but they are bigger, heavier, and take
up more space.  Personally I like having a bit of variety around.
When I brew 15 gallons batches, I split it up into dif. carboys, and usually
do something different to each.  Sugars, spices, and everything nices.

QUESTION: Have other soda PIN lock keggers had problems with the snap
fitting downright giving out over time?
I have a couple- both liquid and gas- which have lost their zeal over time.
I've replaced the rubber rings on the keg portion of the fitting, but get
leaks anyway.  Not a good thing!  That's why I moved to attaching parts
when used, and leaving them disconected when not used,  probably adds to the
wear and tear problem!

ALSO:  Any good sources of the BIG o-rings for the keg lid?
I know Williams has what they claim to be a super one- fatter than normal,
but at $5 a pop, I think it's a little steep!  I believe Foxx has-em,
I'll have to check.

***
Cider worries:

BTW: Cider is a legitimate topic for discussion IMHO dammit!  :)
The forum is for beer, mead and other fermentables/brewin' related...etc.
So why bash it!  I'd like to see something better than the typical...HOW?
request.  It can be awfully simple, or marvelously complex. YMMV.

I have 5 gal (well, 6- one straight) of fresh pressed SuWEeeeet cider
for fermenting.  Let it sit a couple days, and had some white fuzzies on 
top.  Oooops.  Guess I should'a got some campden going in there!  Now I did.

Pulled off a gallon for other experiments, and will add honey/brown sugar
and yeast to the rest.  

The visit to a local presser was a joy in the marvel of creativity!
You think we brewers come up with some imaginative constructions!
His press was almost entirely homemade.  He even has float valves from
Grainger for filling plastic jugs!  Pumps, pulleys, conveyor belts, hydraulic
press...BIG barrles for receiving/dispensing...

A real point to be made here:  As a distributor of cider to the public-
he is required to meet FDA regulations.  These include a closable room
with washable walls and ceiling,  proper washing of the apples themselves...
the list goes on.  He's poured a cement floor, with a drain in it, and
had a whole list of hassles he had to meet.  SO...assuming you get your
cider from a reputable presser you should be doing ok.

Crypto, or Escherichia coli (not colli, that's more like a dog) shouldn't
have much chance after proper treatment.  Plus - if you sterilize by
campden, or pastuerization, then ferment- you will have an environment
pretty inhospitable to bad critters by the time you're done.
plus- I've heard crypto is handled ok by most folks, it's just immune impaired
peoples who have suffered....so if you are impaired-  beware! (if not- HAHB)

As with mead- I'm inclined to treat cider more as a wine than a beer.
Time, patience, acid testing...etc...etc.   BUT...I plan to toss some 
cider into a beer prior to fermenting.  What does one call that anyway?

    \-/-\ Cackles from the Coyote    SLK6P at cc.usu.edu   \-/-\

PS: Did I use enough acronyms today?  
PPS, or PSS:  If I pull the HBD into a file, I can edit, and scroll anywhichway


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Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 11:27:44 -0600 (MDT)
From: COYOTE <SLK6P at cc.usu.edu>
Subject: Oh yeah...

I almost forgot....

HOPPY F*CKIN BREWIN TO STEVE!

Personally - I like hoppy brewing!  That's why I grow em!
So dig yourself a little deeper into the compost pile if you don't like it!


Also:  Warm regards to Mr. Late for Work Beer master.
Tell the BIG guy NOT to use your saying anymore!
FWIW...We (at least who have been around) know You're our guy!


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Date: Tue, 18 Oct 94 10:23:24 PDT
From: ELQ1%Maint%HBPP at bangate.pge.com
Subject: Flame de-fusers

    This question is being posed for the owner of my local Brewmart,
   "What is needed to de-fuse the flame on a 130,000 btu low pressure
    natural gas burner?"  Wayne,  at  Brewmart, Eureka, Ca. 707-445-4677.
    
    It seems his kegs are cracking and he's worried about warping of steel,
    loss of heat, and cost. Private E- mail to me will be printed and
    given to Wayne.
  
    Thanks in Advance
 
    Ed Quier            ELQ1 at PGE.COM         707-444-0718

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Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 12:49:01 +0900
From: bjones at novax.llnl.gov (Bob Jones)
Subject: Whole vs pellet hops

I use whole hops. OK I'm going to go out on a limb here (enter sound of
cracking limb here) and say I can tell the difference in the taste of pellet
hops vs whole hops. I would describe the taste of pellet hops to be sort of
green or raw in flavor. I don't like the taste as well as whole hops.
Pellets also don't work well in my brewery. I have a system similar to Jim
Busch with a SS screen false bottom, however the hops REALLY are the filter
bed. There is a local pub brewery out here in Calif. that uses extracts and
pellets. I love the place, but I won't buy their beers. The biggest factor
in my dislike of their beer is the pellets. I do understand how pellet hops
are much easier for the breweries to filter out, but what has that got to do
with making the best beer? Boy am I out on a limb now.

Hoppy, happy and hoping to be brewing,

Bob Jones
bjones at novax.llnl.gov



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Date: Tue, 18 Oct 94 15:20:00 -0600
From: Mark <markc at ssd.fsi.com>
Subject: DME vs. Liquid extract

I have a simple question:
	What is the difference between using DME or liquid extract?

I was present for the whole thread of how much DME = 1 unit of 
liquid extract so no problem there.  I'm just wondering why some
recipes make a point of using some liquid dark and some DME dark
for example.  

Basically, using the correct conversion can I substitute DME and
liquid for each other in a recipe?  If this has already been beaten
to death, just a quick yes or no private email is fine......mark

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Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 09:33:17 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Frane <gummitch at teleport.com>
Subject: Good stuff / chlorine & stainless

Kinney Baughman writes:


> In the meantime, BrewCo has been in business for over 10 years, making it 
> one of the oldest homebrewing companies in the country.  My company was 
> the first to import the Bruheat into the US, one of the first, if not 
> *the* first, to offer a wort chiller to the homebrewing community, and we 


I might add, in a completely-unsolicited endorsement, that I own one of
those wort chillers and still use it every time I brew.  I've also been
the proud owner of two Bruheats (still have to send Kinney the last one
for some fix-its).  Kinney's company put me into all-grain brewing.


Chris Strickland writes:

> 
> What's this I hear?  I use chlorine and warm water to sanitize my 5 liter
> mini-kegs.  Am I running a chance of causing corrosion with my mini-kegs?


Yes, if they're made of stainless steel.  



- --Jeff



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Date:         Tue, 18 Oct 94 14:01:34 PDT
From: * PF03 UNDEFINED <09981266 at WSUVM1.CSC.WSU.EDU>
Subject:      Using existing bottled beer as culture starter

First, an initial apology: I'm too dumb to successfully access the FAQ
section for this forum, so if this question has been addressed there
or in an earlier discussion of HBD, I'm genuinely sorry.

I was reading a recipe for Belgian ales which involved starting the
culture in a freshly opened bottle of Chimay *after* pouring out the
ale (leaving a presumably yeast-inhabited residue behind).

The first thing that occurred to me was "Well, hell. Why not just use the
beer itself?"

I know this sounds hopelessly barbaric, but in other words, why not just
empty a bottle of commercial beer into your wort and let the yeast from
the beer you have there just do its thing?

This is my first posting, and I only have one  (moderately successful)
extract batch under my belt, so I'm definitely a rookie both to HBD and
homebrewing in general.

Forgive my insolence, O mighty ones.  They grow us pretty dumb out here
in Pullman (Washington State University).

skip
09981266 at wsuvm1.csc.wsu.edu      (no i didn't choose that ridiculous address)

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Date: Tue, 18 Oct 94 17:28:42 CDT
From: djones at iex.com (Douglas R. Jones)
Subject: Gravity help

I am getting ready to brew a Belgian that I hope is a Celis Pale Bock clone
(or somewhere in the ball park). Anyway I use SUDSW to keep track of
everything and the malts I am using are not in the Malt section. So, I need
OG, Color (srm) and Mash (Y or N) for the following malts:

Caravienne
Biscuit
Belgian Aromatic
Belgian Pilsner

TIA,
Doug
- -------------------------------------------------------
'I am a traveler of        |    Douglas R. Jones
     both Time and Space'  |    IEX Corporation
       Led Zeppelin        |    (214)301-1307
                           |    djones at iex.com
- -------------------------------------------------------


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Date: 18 Oct 94 18:02:00 CST
From: "DEV::SJK" <SJK%DEV.decnet at mdcgwy.mdc.com>
Subject: A little CA beer law


I've always paid attention to the discussions about various legal aspects
of our hobby.  The recent discussion about the dubious legality of even
removing h-brew from your house really got me interested so I went and
fetched Division 9, Alcoholic Beverages from the California Codes, Business
and Professions Code.  Just a quick perusal yielded the following.  Sorry
for the length and the regional nature...

   CALIFORNIA CODES
   BUSINESS AND PROFESSIONS CODE

   23356.2.  No license or permit shall be required for the manufacture of
   beer for personal or family use, and not for sale, by a person over the
   age of 21 years.  The aggregate amount of beer with respect to any
   household shall not exceed (a) 200 gallons per calendar year if there
   are two or more adults in such household, or (b) 100 gallons per
   calendar year if there is only one adult in such household.

   Any beer manufactured pursuant to this section may be removed from the
   premises where manufactured for use in competition at organized affairs,
   exhibitions or competitions, including homemakers' contests, tastings,
   or judgings.

Whew!
   
   23661.1.  Notwithstanding any other provision of law, an adult passenger
   on board a chartered airplane on a flight which commences and terminates
   in the continental United States and which does not land outside the
   continental United States, may bring not to exceed one quart of
   alcoholic beverages into this State for household or personal use.  Such
   alcoholic beverages shall be exempt from state licensing restrictions. 
   No person shall bring in more than one quart of alcoholic beverages
   during any calendar year pursuant to the authority granted in this
   section.

Only a quart?  Of beer?

   23661.2.  (a) Notwithstanding any other provision of law, any unlicensed
   adult person may apply to the Department of Alcoholic Beverage Control
   and be issued a permit to receive a shipment of wine, including vermouth
   and champagne, from another state of the United States.  The shipment
   shall be made in accordance with rules adopted by the department, but
   the total shipments permitted in any calendar month to a person shall
   not be in excess of 2.4 gallons.  A common carrier to whom the permit is
   presented is authorized to make delivery of the shipment to the person
   named in the permit.  Delivery of a shipment pursuant to the permit
   shall not be deemed to constitute a sale in this state.

   (b) Notwithstanding any other provision of law, an individual or
   licensee in a state which affords California licensees or individuals an
   equal reciprocal shipping privilege, may ship, for personal use and not
   for resale, not more than two cases of wine (no more than nine liters
   each case) per month to any adult resident in this state.  Delivery of a
   shipment pursuant to this subdivision shall not be deemed to constitute
   a sale in this state.

   The shipping container of any wine sent into or out of this state under
   this section shall be clearly labeled to indicate that the package
   cannot be delivered to a minor or to an intoxicated person.

Note the use of the word "unlicensed" in paragraph 23661.2 as well as the
absence of the word "beer".  Hmm...  I am really unqualified to read
anything into this.  I did, however, download the entire Division 9 and
plan to delve into it some more.  I'd offer to send it out to anyone
interested, but it's over 500K bytes.  Is this worth uploading to Stanford? 
You can FTP it yourself at leginfo.public.ca.gov /pub/code/bpc.  TOC can be
had from /pub/code/bpc_table_of_contents.  Be prepared to download each
paragraph separately and to deal with a naming convention and directory
structure worthy of California's state government.


Scott Kaczorowski
sjk at rc3a.mdc.com



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Date: Tue, 18 Oct 94 18:24:00 PDT
From: "Morton, Mike" <STGPMPM at geological.unocal.com>
Subject: Chilled Out


Well I was overwhelmed by the number of friendly, personal
responses to my post regarding a short length of copper
tubing I wanted to convert into a wort chiller.  The reason
I am making this follow-up post is that out of 14 responses
I received, there were only two which favored (or even used)
counterflow type chillers.  The other folks indicated for the
most part that they just didn't want to go to the extra
trouble of making a counterflow type.
Is there a strong bias here?  Well I took all that
advice, went out and spent a few bucks for 25 feet of nice,
shiny copper tubing and made that immersion chiller. Gawd it
worked great!  My life is now complete. Cooled about 4 gals
of wort down to 80 degrees in about 23 mins. No sanitation
problems, muss or fuss. This batch was also my first attempt
at a partial mash so with all that going for it my weekend
was great!  Just wanted to share my enthusiasm and thank all
of those who responded to my questions.  <g>

Mike Morton
stgpmpm at geological.unocal.com
376 Valencia Ave. E1-125
Brea, CA 92621

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Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 00:09:38 -0400
From: BToddL69 at aol.com
Subject: Yeast info?

 I have what seems to be two succesful starters from the dregs of bottles of
Celis White and Blanche de Bruges, a Belgian white beer.  I'm planning on
using them, seperately, for two batches of Belgian strong ale.  Does anyone
have any info on these yeasts, and am I correct in assuming they would be
appropriate choices for a strong ale?  TIA.
 
 He who dies with the most brew toys wins!
 
 Todd Little
 BToddL69 at aol.com    


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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1556, 10/19/94