FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Microbreweries (The tip of stalagtites incising my knees)
  Re:  Growing hops ("Glen A. Wagnecz, X6616")
  Wife, pissed off variety (RONALD DWELLE)
  Large Scale Wort Chilling ("Jeff Dudley, S29711 at 22681.utrcgw.utc.com")
  SS Pots/Florida brewing (npyle)
  dryhopping advice here (The new moon sky rises in the cool October night deep in the White Mountains  20-Oct-1994 1034 -0400)
  Cascades and the mega-brewers (Steve Zabarnick)
  Hop Shrubbery (Mark Worwetz)
  Classic Beer Styles Series (Ton van Opstal)
  Re: dry hopping with leaf hops ... ("Stephen E. Hansen")
  Re: kegs (Gordon Baldwin)
  Re: Sub-Standard Hops? (L M Sabo)
  Northern CA - BJCP Study Group Forming (Roy Harvey)
  Slotted ring (Rich Larsen)
  Cascades (Jeff Guillet)
  BREWING REGS (Jeff Guillet)
  Bad Hops / Cheap Hops / O-rings for soda kegs (Barry Nisly)
  hop form factors :-) ("Anton Verhulst")
  STERILIZING 5L KEGS (George Danz (919) 405-3632)
  Big Guys Use... (Jeff Frane)
  foundation water (Jim Emery)
  Temperature controller (Christopher Warren)
  sanitising the dreaded minikegs--no bleach!; need address; IBUs (uswlsrap)
  Pear Cider Recipe Help ("Scott Majdecki")
  BelgianMalts CORRECTION (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  Chocolate Beer, Sherry flavour, Rubber hosing and Phosphoric Acid (Aidan "Krazy Krausen Kropping Kiwi" Heerdegen)



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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 12:44:26 -0500 (EST)
From: The tip of stalagtites incising my knees <STU_GJCARRIE at VAX1.ACS.JMU.EDU>
Subject: Microbreweries

Could any of you who work at/own/have worked at a microbrewery and are willing
to share your experiences, please get in touch with me?  I am specifically
interested in startup costs, equipment, volumes produced etc.  Anything that
would help me get a better picture of how this business works would be most
appreciated.  How hard is it to make a carreer brewing beer? ;)
TIA (sorry...I will stop using abbrev.)

Gregg

*********************** We gotta get on the road *****************************
*    Gregg Carrier        (aka Uncle Zany, the guy in the floppy green hat)  *
*    332 Old S. High St.              stu_gjcarrie at vax1.acs.jmu.edu          *
*    Harrisonburg, VA  22801          (703) 434-8214                         *
*************************** Destiny Unbound **********************************

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Date:     Thu, 20 Oct 94 8:21:08 EDT
From: "Glen A. Wagnecz, X6616" <wagnecz at PICA.ARMY.MIL>
Subject:  Re:  Growing hops

You don't have to have poles of extensive altitude (insert favorite 
image of huge gantry crane here) to grow hops.  I use a piece of 
pressure treated wood lattice of dimensions 3 1/2' x 8' erected 
vertically.  I pound two 8' pieces of PT 2x4 into the ground about 2'
apart and tie the lattice to it.  When the bines come up out of the
ground, insert them into the lattice.  As they grow, weave them in and
out ofthe lattice in a side to side fashion, filling the area ofthe lattice.
Make sure the lattice faces south.  You'll have to do this weaving about
every other or third day.

	The lattice becomes a sea of green shortly.  Due to its low height,
the plant is easily serviced: watering, insectide (diazonone or malthion 50)
application, and harvest only require a step ladder.

	I harvested 3/4 pounds of cascades from this setup on this years run.
The use of the vertical method only used up a space of 2' x 4' and 
easily fit in the side of the house flower bed with all the other plants.
Several neighbors walking by on different occasions remarked on how niece
the vine was, what is it?  Hops? Really?  I thought they made beer with 
it... (Smirk).

			Glen

"Smecht gut!  Ein mal pils her ober!"

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Date: Thu, 20 Oct 94 10:12:34 EST
From: dweller at GVSU.EDU (RONALD DWELLE)
Subject: Wife, pissed off variety

     Okay, every time I boil, I get this black-brown stain-like stuff all 
     around the burners. Standard kitchen gas stove. I use these 5-gallon 
     stainless pots. The first dozen times, I thought the brew was giving 
     off some kind of fumes that were settling on the stove surface near 
     the burner and getting baked on, but yesterday I was boiling 5 gallons 
     of plain water (to drive off the chloriney shit) and I got the same 
     black-brown gunk. And I mean, it is a chore CHORE to get these stains 
     off, and the scouring is screwing up the finish on the stove. (And 
     somebody is getting pretty pissed about it happening over and over and 
     over.)
     
     Anybody else have this problem? Solution? I have this impression that 
     the stainless itself is giving off some kind of stuff (pretty 
     scientific, huh?). You all better help me or I'm going to be thrown 
     out of the kitchen permanently and then god knows what will happen to 
     western civilization.
     Ron Dwelle(dweller at gvsu.edu)

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Date: 20 Oct 1994 10:18:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Jeff Dudley, S29711 at 22681.utrcgw.utc.com" <S29711%22681 at utrcgw.utc.com>
Subject: Large Scale Wort Chilling


On a recent tour of a local microbrewery, I was unable to ask one of my
questions.  How does one bring 200+ gallons of boiling wort down to pitching
temp.  If I extrapolate my current counterflow method from 5 to 250 gallons,
the water needs are quite high.

I'm curious about the various methods employed by micros to cool the wort to
pitching temp, and if anyone has undertaken a serious trade study comparing all
the methods.  Actually, I'm sure someone has, the real question is does anyone
have details about the study.

TIA,
jcd

private E-mail is fine.
"s29711 at 22681.utrcgw.utc.com"

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Date: Thu, 20 Oct 94 8:41:35 MDT
From: npyle at hp7013.ecae.StorTek.COM
Subject: SS Pots/Florida brewing

Chris Geden had some questions:

>In this morning's HBD somebody said something that sounded like "bleach
>is bad for stainless".  Is that true?

Yes, it is true, but bleach can be used if care is taken.  According to John
Palmer, resident HBD (and Space Station Alpha) metallurgist, the problem with
using bleach is with concentration.  In low concentrations, it doesn't seem
to be a problem, but you have to consider the drying effect.  As bleach water
dries it forms droplets which become more and more concentrated as the water
evaporates (yes, I'm sure some of the chlorine is leaving as well - I'm just
explaining what I've heard).  Anyway these concentrated droplets can eat
pits in SS.  Each time the pot is cleaned/sanitized with bleach more bleach
will collect in the pits, and they eventually become pinholes.  The solution
is to use low concentrations and rinse with water.  Another solution is to
use other sanitizers, like iodophor, with SS.  My question is this:  why do
you want to use bleach on a pot?  Most people only use it for sanitizing,
which implies you are using it to ferment in.  Well, maybe you are, come to
think of it...

>great for crab boils, gumbo, cooking corn for multitudes etc.  Is it OK for
>a brewpot to double as a cooking pot for food or will there be inevitable
>residual food/spice flavors left behind that could affect beer flavor?

Yes, it is fine.  Just clean it well.  That's the nice thing about stainless,
it cleans up very well.

>My tap water rarely gets below 70 degrees.
>Would an immersion chiller do anything at all if the "chilled" water temp.
>is this high?
 ...
>Any thoughts before I invest in copper tubing?

You can combine the two methods, i.e. use a chiller with an ice bath.  I
would suggest you buy 30' of copper tubing and set it up to run the wort
through the inside (by siphon, or whatever).  Put the coil in a bucket of ice
and water.  In the summer use more ice and in the "not summer" use less ice.
You should stir the ice water while chilling for best heat transfer.

**

FYI:  "leaf hops" is a misnomer.  We don't use hop leaves in beer, we use
the flowers, or cones.  The terms "whole hops" or "hop cones" or "loose hops"
are usually used to describe hops in this form.

Cheers,
Norm

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Date: Thu, 20 Oct 94 10:38:41 EDT
From: The new moon sky rises in the cool October night deep in the White Mountains 20-Oct-1994 1034 -0400 <ferguson at zendia.enet.dec.com>
Subject: dryhopping advice here

>Date: Wed, 19 Oct 94 13:51:44 EDT
>From: Chris Lyons <Chris.Lyons at analog.com>
>Subject: dry hopping with leaf hops ...
>
>I would like to try dry hopping a current batch with leaf hops.
>I have always used pellets for dry hoping in the past (after a
>week the hops are all resting on the bottom and there's no problem
>racking).  Can anyone with experience using leaf hops for dry
>hoping please comment.  Will the leaves tend to float and clog
>the racking tube?

the best way to do this is to put the hops in a muslin bag.  muslin
bags can be had at most brew stores.  this will keep them out of the beer,
but, the beer is free to circulate in and out of the bag.  i use them all
the time for dry hopping in the keg.  fresh leaf hops always have the 
best results, from my experience.  use 1-2oz.

on another subject:

those who dry-hop in the keg: is it ok to leave the hops in the keg for
up to 1-2 months?  or, should they be removed after a few weeks?

jc


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Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 10:50:54 -0500
From: steve at snake.appl.wpafb.af.mil (Steve Zabarnick)
Subject: Cascades and the mega-brewers

Jim Busch writes in HBD #1557 referring to the major breweries in the US:

>And I know of no "big guy" who uses Cascades.

A friend of mine works for a major US hop broker and importer. This company
sells hops to the major brewers as well as many of the micros. He has told
me that Anheuser-Busch puchases large quantities of Cascades and uses them
along with a variety of other hops in beers such as Budweiser.

Steve Zabarnick
steve at snake.appl.wpafb.af.mil



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Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 09:51:42 -0600 (MDT)
From: Mark_Worwetz at Novell.COM (Mark Worwetz)
Subject: Hop Shrubbery

Howdy from ZION!

Recently, Pierre Jelenc reported on finding some hop shrubs growing along
a river bank in France and asked about this phenomenon.  I used to wonder
the same thing when I decided to grow some hops at my condo this year.  I have
a six foot high fence around my patio, and no structure is allowed to be
higher than the fence.  I was forced to run my hops up a six foot pole up
against the fence, which has a trellis on it.  When the hops reached the
top of the pole, I trained them onto the trellis.  At that point, the vine
(bine?) started branching out every which way it could!  I ended up with
about five branches of cascades coming off the main stem, and there were
hops for about 18 inches along each stem.  I don't know what a tall pole
produces, but I was pretty hoppy with my few ounces of first year hops.
BTW, the plant was started in June, and Utah had an EXTREMELY dry summer.
(Read NO rain for almost three months!) The cones were only about 3/4 to
1 inch in diameter.
COYOTE, you are a northern Utah hophead, how big are your cones?  (I'm not
usually the type of guy interested in the size of someone elses cones, but WTH!)

Livin' in Utah and happy to have the Conference Weekend Deluge behind me,
Mark_Worwetz at Novell.COM

PS.
 _,_/|
 \o.O;     Steve, 
=(___)=    HOPPY BREWING
   U

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Date: Thu, 20 Oct 94 16:54:27 +0100
From: etmtvop at etmos17.ericsson.se (Ton van Opstal)
Subject: Classic Beer Styles Series

Hi,

Can anyone give me the titles, authors and year of publication of the
books in the Classic Beer Styles Series. I would also like to know the
name (and location) of the publisher of these books. I would like to know,
because I'm putting a list of beer literature!

Example:
Title:     Classic Beer Styles Series #6 - Belgian Ale
Author     Pierre Rajotte
Year:      19..
Publisher: ....

e-mail would do the job!

Thanks,

Ton (member of the Dutch Beer Consumers Organisation "PINT")

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Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 09:12:54 -0700
From: "Stephen E. Hansen" <hansen at salvia.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: dry hopping with leaf hops ... 

In HBD 1557 Chris Lyons <Chris.Lyons at analog.com> writes:
> I would like to try dry hopping a current batch with leaf hops.
> I have always used pellets for dry hoping in the past (after a
> week the hops are all resting on the bottom and there's no problem
> racking).  Can anyone with experience using leaf hops for dry
> hoping please comment.  Will the leaves tend to float and clog
> the racking tube?

Get a small mesh bag from your local homebrew shop (or a cheesecloth
bag) and put the hop in the bag.  Works like a charm.

Some folks wory about the bag o hops just floating on top of the
wort and not doing much for flavor.  I used to worry about this
and dropped a large handfull of marbles in the bag with the hops to
get them to sink.  I gave this up after a while and it doesn't seem
to matter, the bag will eventually sink.

I make mostly IPA's and ESB style ales and so like a lot of hop
aroma and flavor.  I use an ounce of whole leaf Cascades, EKGs,
or occasionally Northern Brewer in the keg, depending on the style.
You might want to start with a bit less.

Stephen Hansen

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
 Stephen E. Hansen - hansen at Netserver.Stanford.EDU | The church is near,
 Computer Security Officer, Room 320, Sweet Hall   | but the road is icy.
 Stanford University, Stanford, CA 94305-3090      | The bar is far away,
 Phone: +1-415-723-1058   Fax: +1-415-723-1294     | but I will walk carefully.
 WWW: http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~hansen       |     -- Russian Proverb
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

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Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 08:30:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: gbaldw at zaphod.usin.com (Gordon Baldwin)
Subject: Re: kegs

Al writes:
> Coyote writes:
> >The fittings can be changed from one keg type to another.
> >You're looking at about $4-5 for the snap on portion, and about the same
> >for the fitting on the keg.  You may find these priced significantly higher
> >at your local homebrew supply store.  Go figure!
> 
> I don't understand the "snap on portion" but not all kegs can be changed
> from ball to pin or vice versa.  In fact, only the Cornelius Company uses
> the same thread on both their pin and ball lock kegs, which means that you
> can get replacements.  Most pin-lock kegs are Firestone, which will not
> accept a ball-lock connector replacement.
> 
Not so fast Al. My "A" kegs are all Firestone and they are all ball
lock. I picked them up from my local Pepsi distributor for $10 each.
They were getting rid of them so they could go all Cornelius to save on
spares cost and such. Maybe not all Firestone are created equal. 

- -- 
Gordon Baldwin
gbaldw at usin.com
Olympia Washington

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Date: Thu, 20 Oct 94 10:17:21 -0600
From: lmsabo at mbnoa1.mnet.uswest.com (L M Sabo)
Subject: Re: Sub-Standard Hops?


Tom Williams (tjwillia at occ,bitnet) asks:

>I ran across an interesting item in the November issue of All About Beer.
>Seems that the hops us lowly homebrewers purchase are nothing more than
>rejects from the big guy's.  Could this be true?

I read a similar article in "Midwest Beer Notes". Jim Koch of BBC (TM) states
that he will make 1200 pounds of the rare Hallertau Mittelfrueh hops available
to homebrewers. The price is $12 per 400 grams. One package per customer. He
is doing this because several years ago he rejected a shipment of the hops
due to poor qualitity only to find out that the shipment was sold to
homebrewers. Quote: "I think homebrewers deserve more respect and better
hops."

I looked through all of my books and was unable to find a reference for
the Mittelfrueh variety of Hallertau. Is anyone else familiar with
Mittelfrueh? While I'm at it -- is the BBC (TM) even considered a
microbrewery? As I recall, don't they contract the actual brewing of the
beer they market out to other breweries?

_Michael
(I wanted to be sarcastic and end with "Happy Brewing" but I won't. Damn
I can't resist.... Happy Brewing!)

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Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 09:17:58 -0700
From: royh at netcom.com (Roy Harvey)
Subject: Northern CA - BJCP Study Group Forming

The next Northern California Beer Judge Certification Exam is going to 
held January 7th in Santa Rosa.  In order to better prepare for the exam, 
we're looking for people who would be interested in forming a South Bay or 
Penninsula area study group.

Want to get involved?

Please send email to:
  royh at netcom.com
  sturdy at itsa.ucsf.EDU



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Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 12:33:19 -0500 (CDT)
From: Rich Larsen <rlarsen at free.org>
Subject: Slotted ring

In HBD1557 Al sez:

> I am thinking about implementing Jeff's slotted-ring idea, but am still
> debating the pros and cons with myself.  If I was to do this, I would
> probably go to whole hops without a bag for most batches.

I built one of these.  I made a ring the diameter of the interior of my
brewpot with a verticle tube, bent over to accept a siphon hose.   I brewed
a batch with pellet hops.  I chilled and whirlpooled.  When it came time to
rack the wort to primary, I got about 5 oz, then it clogged solid.  A
little motion on the unit started the flow again, but it promptly clogged
again.  I then muttered fokit, and yanked the siphon hose off and plunged
in into the wort.

This may work with whole hops, but my version didn't seem to be able to
handle the pellets.  YMMV.

=> Rich  (rlarsen at squeaky.free.org)
_______________________________________________________________________
Rich Larsen (708) 388-3514 * Also on HomeBrew University (708) 705-7263
    "I never drink... wine"  Bela Lugosi as Dracula
_______________________________________________________________________

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Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 17:48:00 GMT
From: jeff.guillet at lcabin.com (Jeff Guillet)
Subject: Cascades


Tom writes:

>> I ran across an interesting item in the November issue of All About
>> Beer. Seems that the hops us lowly homebrewers purchase are nothing more
>> than rejects from the big guy's.  Could this be true?  Considering the

And Jim Busch writes back:

J>I think this is nonsense.  Certainly the hops from Freshops, Hoptech, I 
J>assume Glenns, are of very high quality.  Whats on our local stores shelf 
J>is another matter. And I know of no "big guy" who uses Cascades. 

Depends how big a "big guy" is.  Anchor uses only Cascades in their Liberty 
Ale.

 -=Jeff=-   <jeff.guillet at lcabin.com>
- ---
* CMPQwk #1.4* UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY

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Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 17:10:00 GMT
From: jeff.guillet at lcabin.com (Jeff Guillet)
Subject: BREWING REGS


Mark Stevens writes:

S>Carrying around copies of federal regs isn't gonna help you Jeff.
S>The problem is that each state can enact more restrictive laws
S>if they wish, and MANY of them do. The mere presence of homebrew
S>clubs, supply shops, or brewpubs in a state is not a reliable
S>indicator of the status of a state's laws. 

Yes, that's true.  But my point really is this: Even if you *do* carry the 
federal AND local regulations with you, I don't think it will make a bit of 
difference to an official who *thinks* (perhaps with a moral attitude) that 
what you are doing is wrong.

I got a message today from Ed Ditto who has a friend whose guns were 
confiscated by a local policeman on his way from a shooting range.  He was 
careful to get the officer's name, badge number, serial numbers from the 
guns, and a written receipt.  Later that day the guy's lawyer called to say 
his client will be down to pick up the guns in the morning.  He got his guns
the next day.

This guy was violating no law, but the cop stole his stuff anyway.  He got 
it back, but only because he had a lawyer and serial numbers on everything.

Personally, I don't put serial numbers on my homebrew or my equipment.  Even
if I did, that would violate most homebrew competition rules regarding brown
12 oz. unmarked bottles.  And who can afford to retain an attorney to get 
their homebrew back?

 -=Jeff=-   <jeff.guillet at lcabin.com>
- ---
* CMPQwk #1.4* UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY

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Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 12:07:50 -0700
From: barry at odf.UCSD.EDU (Barry Nisly)
Subject: Bad Hops / Cheap Hops / O-rings for soda kegs

Jim Busch wrote:

>I think this is nonsense.  Certainly the hops from Freshops, Hoptech, I 
>assume Glenns, are of very high quality.  Whats on our local stores shelf 
>is another matter.

I usually get my hops (whole) through mail order.  For my last batch I bought 
2 oz of N. Brewer (Steinbarts) from my local HB store.  They were the
crustiest, driest hops with the least aroma I've ever used.  They were
supposedly N2 flushed and packed in foil.  Needless to say, I'll be getting 
my hops by mail order from now on.

***

Doth mine eyes deceive me?  Looking through BT vol 2 no 3, I saw an ad
for US Wholesale Homebrew Supply Co.  $3.85 for a *LB* of Cascade?
That's less than what I usually pay for 6 *OZ*.  Is it true?  Has anyone
ordered from these people?  Do the hops arrive wrapped in burlap or something?

***

The Coyote asked about o-rings.  If you can't find any at a decent price,
I can check out some distributors we use.  I've got a Parker O-ring Handbook
so email me the size (ID and thickness) or the Parker Number (even better!)
and I'll see what I can dig up.  WARNING:  I work at a research institution.
I don't sell o-rings.  I know about them because we use a LOT of them here.

Barry Nisly
Scripps Institution of Oceanography
bnisly at ucsd.edu

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Date: Tue, 18 Oct 94 15:39:25 -0400
From: "Anton Verhulst" <verhulst at zk3.dec.com>
Subject: hop form factors :-)


In HBD 1554, Glenn Tinseth wants to know why people use different forms
of hops (whole, plugs, pellets).  Although I prefer to use whole hops,
I tend to use pellets for reasons of storage.  I typically have around
3 or 4 pounds of hops in my freezer competing for space with the run of the
mill food items.  Whole hops alone would fill the freezer, the pellets much
less.  Glenn would *never* use pellets for aroma - well I do, with 
statisfactory results.  I think that the secret is in the storage - if the
hops are well maintained ( I have a heavy duty vacuum sealer and oxygen
barrier bags) the aroma will be good.  I don't dry hop, but if I did that
might be another story, I don't know.

I get my hops from HopTech, BTW.  No connection.


- --Tony Verhulst

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Date: Thu, 20 Oct 94 16:41:21 EDT
From: danz at edasich.rtp.semi.harris.com (George Danz (919) 405-3632)
Subject: STERILIZING 5L KEGS

I'VE BEEN JUST DRYING AS BEST I CAN AFTER SPRAYING WIHT WATER ADN THEN
BEFORE USING, PUTTING EM IN THE OVEN AT 250 F OR SO FOR 1/2 HR.

HOW BOUT THEM APPLES?

GEORGE DANZ
DANZ at RTP.SEMI.HARRIS.COM

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Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 08:36:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Frane <gummitch at teleport.com>
Subject: Big Guys Use...

Jim Busch writes (about all those crappy hops we're supposedly using):
> 
> I think this is nonsense.  Certainly the hops from Freshops, Hoptech, I 
> assume Glenns, are of very high quality.  Whats on our local stores shelf 
> is another matter. And I know of no "big guy" who uses Cascades. 
> 
I don't know if they qualify as a "big guy" in your book, Jim, but
Blitz-Weinhard is a big fan of Cascades -- it's the signature hop in
Henry's (and they late hop!).

Of course, the beer doesn't taste like Sierra Nevada... (don't they
qualify as a "big guy" now? or anyway, a big kid?)

- --Jeff



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Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 14:04:56 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jim Emery <jimery at u.washington.edu>
Subject: foundation water

Hi all.  I've got a newbie question.  It seems that most sources agree 
that 2 qts of water per pound of grain is the proper amount for 
sparging.  My question is, does this total amount include foundation 
water placed in the lauter tun to bring the level above the bottom of the 
grain bed.  Thanks for any help.  Cheers.  Jim

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Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 17:12:36 +0100
From: Christopher Warren <cwarren at alpha.netusa.net>
Subject: Temperature controller

	I am looking for a thermostat controller but have some questions.
1) Will the unit be easy to install?
2) Is the temperature setting printed on the dial, or do I have to 
   play around with the settings?
3) How do I decide which unit would be best for my usage?
4) Where can I find one (hopefully 800) numbers?
5) How much will it cost?

					Thanks
					Chris Warren


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Date: Thu, 20 Oct 94 17:13:16 EDT
From: uswlsrap at ibmmail.com
Subject: sanitising the dreaded minikegs--no bleach!; need address; IBUs  

- -------------------- Mail Item Text Follows ------------------

To: I1010141--IBMMAIL

From: Bob Paolino
      Research Analyst
Subject: sanitising the dreaded minikegs--no bleach!; need address; IBUs

The instructions I received with mine said not to use bleach. It didn't have
anything to do with bleach and stainless steel, but rather that it would
degrade the _lining_ in the cans. Destroy the coating, and you're beer's gonna
taste like metal. And isn't getting away from a can of Buttwiperswhat
homebrewing's all about? Use B-Brite<tm> and lots of hot water to rinse.

Another item: CUSHING HAMLEN, where are you? (I didn't save your userid.) You
requested information on judging for our November Classic.  The USPS didn't
think that the address you gave for the supercomputer centre in Minneapolis was
complete enough and returned the mail. Send a more specific address or a home
address and I'll send the forms again.  Anyone else interested in judging in
Madison November 19 at a brand new brewpub can drop a note to get information.
If you previously requested information and can now confirm that you can/cannot
judge that day, let me know.  Thanks!

Someone posted a sample table of AAU values for desired IBUs based on a variety
of parameters (volume, utilisation, gravity). S/he gave the formula used to
derive that table, but I was unable to reproduce the results. It might be a
matter of units of measure, but I tried different possibilities and it didn't
look like the table numbers came from the formula given. I'm not looking to get
into the big debate over utilisation at various gravities and who's right under
what circumstances; I'm just curious about the derivation of the table.

Bob Paolino
Disoriented in Badgerspace

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Date: 20 Oct 1994 16:24:51 -0800
From: "Scott Majdecki" <Scott_Majdecki at pdxml1.mentorg.com>
Subject: Pear Cider Recipe Help

                      Pear Cider Recipe Help
A while ago I read a recipe for making hard cider and flavoring it with
frozen juice concentrate. My wife is EXTREMELY fond of Wyder's Pear Cider
and I was going to take a crack at something emulating that. Please make
any suggestions to my guess at a recipe below:

5 gal fresh pressed cider
camden tablets to pasturize
1-lb honey
1pk dry champagne yeast
1tsp yeast nutrient
2 cans frozen pear juice concentrate

1 1/2 lb corn sugar

Add crushed camden tablets to cider. Let sit 24 hr. Add honey and pitch
yeast w/ nutrient. Let sit forever and a day (until fermented and settled
adequately). Rack clear cider to secondary. Add juice concentrate. Let sit
another month or so. Boil sugar in 1 pt cider. Prime and bottle.

Big questions:
 1) When to add juice concentrate? As above or differently?
 2) How to prime? Last batch primed simularly was flat though recipie used
5lb honey and produced 26proof hard cider!!

Thanks ahead for your help.

Scott Majdecki
scott_majdecki at mentorg.com




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Date: 20 Oct 94 18:29:00 GMT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: BelgianMalts CORRECTION

Yesterday, I wrote:
>>Biscuit	about 25 degrees Lovibond, does not to be mashed

Thanks to rushing my post to get to a meeting, I goofed and typed
the "does not" in stead of "does need."  The correct statement is:

Biscuit     about 25 degrees Lovibond, does need to be mashed

To make this post a little more worthwhile, I'll add a bit more information.
Since both the DeWolf-Cosyns Biscuit and Aromatic are about 25 degrees
Lovibond, then what's the difference?  Well, the difference is in the way
that they are made.  The Biscuit is kilned dry first and then roasted a
little bit (which denatures its enzymes, by the way).  The Aromatic is
simply kilned wet at a higher temperature, like a dark Munich malt (which
denatures SOME of its enzymes but leaves enough for the Aromatic to convert
itself).  As I said yesterday, I have not brewed with the Biscuit yet, but
an 8-gallon batch made with 4 pounds of Aromatic and 6 pounds of extract
had a rich dark-malt flavor... just what you would expect from a dark
Munich-style malt.

Based upon simply crunching the two malts, the Biscuit, reminds me of
golden crust on pastry -- sort of... biscuity!  In recipes that call for
toasted malt or "Victory" malt (from Breiss), you can safely use Biscuit
malt as an exact subsitute.  (Note that Victory is made from 6-row and
Biscuit from 2-row, so you can expect a little more extract, a little
less protein and a little less husk using Biscuit.)

Al.

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Date: Fri, 21 Oct 94 13:13:53 EST
From: Aidan "Krazy Krausen Kropping Kiwi" Heerdegen <aidan at rschp2.anu.edu.au>
Subject: Chocolate Beer, Sherry flavour, Rubber hosing and Phosphoric Acid
Full-Name: Aidan "Krazy Krausen Kropping Kiwi" Heerdegen

Guy wrote:

|   This was in the Charlotte Observer in this morning's business section:
|   
|   Britain braces for a new brew:  Chocolate beer
|   
|   By Dirk Beveridge (what a name!! gdm)
	    ^^^^^^^^^
As you noticed ... 

<snip> 

 ... and ..

|   "It's not something I would go out and buy," said Nicola Porter
						             ^^^^^^
Is this a piss-take?

I got a *really* intense sweet sherry flavour in my yeast starter 
(it is some yeast from the bottom of one of the fermenters at the 
local English Brew Pub), seems there wouldn't have been time for 
it to oxidise (only started it a few days before tasting the 
supernatent that I decanted off), what does the collected wisdom 
think might be the cause?  I used a couple of tablespoons of 
Coopers LME, a couple of EKG pellets, boiled, cooled, aerated, 
pitched and fermented on top of the fridge (it didn't get too 
warm), BTW I didn't measure the SG of the supernatent ..  dumb I 
know.  

Hopefully I will be doing my first all-grain this weekend! YAY!

Has anyone ever had problems using that lab grade rubber hosing 
for brewing?  I am planning to use some from my sparge water 
"tank" to the lauter tun, and then from there to my boiler ...  
will I get "Rubber Beer" (tm - in case it tastes nice ...) ?  I 
want to use it primarily because it is easily pinched off with 
one of those cool "rubber hose pinching off devices" (tm) ..  :) 
 ..  so I can easily control the sparge water flow.  

Can I use AR Grade Phosphoric acid for acidifying sparge water?  
(I am in a Chem Research School ...  :)   ) Or does it have lotsa
nasties in it from the purification process?

Thanks muchly from Down Under

Aidan [the oft-quoted  :)  ]

- --
Aidan Heerdegen
e-mail: aidan at rschp2.anu.edu.au (hey ..  I have always had my 
				address at the end of my e-mails) 


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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1558, 10/21/94