HOMEBREW Digest #1570 Fri 04 November 1994

Digest #1569 Digest #1571

		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor

  Request for Recipe (LBRISTOL)
  Flavoring Beer (WILHELM)
  Dead yeast as a nutrient for live yeast (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  dried apricots in beer (ANDY WALSH)
  NJ homebrew supply controversy (Erik Speckman)
  Re: Malting Process (Tel +44 784 443167)
  Wort Cooler (Robert Mech)
  re:Sparge water pH adjustments (Art Steinmetz)
  Liberty Ale Success Story (Stephen Tinsley)
  assorted (HEWITT)
  Malting (Greg Holton)
  Phenol??? (John R. Boatman)
  Hopefully not a worthless post ("Rick Gontarek, Ph.D.")
  Re: More Wit bier tips (Jim Busch)
  Beerstone removal? ("Charles Webster")
  RE: HOW LOW? (uswlsrap)
  RE: HOW LOW? (uswlsrap)
  Re: Belgium Here I Come! (Kimberly Carney)
  Copyright and Distribution (Philip Proefrock)
  Brewpot Stuff (WADE GARY L)
  Mash Yield Calculations (John T Faulks)
  Thanks! Local Info for Utah (Mark Worwetz)
  Re: Grain Storage (Jeff Frane)
  Who says communism is dead ("Ulick Stafford")
  Enough is Enough! ("Todd M. McGuinness")
  Re: Useless Posts (Todd Wallinger)
  Keg Walls, Decoction, Grain Storage (COYOTE)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 02 Nov 94 15:38:05 CST From: LBRISTOL at SYSUBMC.BMC.COM Subject: Request for Recipe I'm looking for a recipe to make a red ale, or some other beer similar to "Killian's Red", either the original version or the Coors version. Either extract based or all-grain recipe. Please submit either here, or e-mail to "bplummer at sysubmc.bmc.com". TIA! - -------------------------------------------------------- | Larry Bristol | DON'T PANIC! | | SYSUBMC.BMC.COM | A true Hitchhiker always knows | | (713)918-7802 | where his towel is. | - -------------------------------------------------------- Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 1994 18:47:09 -0500 (EST) From: WILHELM at MURRAY.FORDHAM.EDU Subject: Flavoring Beer I am relatively new to the art of home brewing, and want to brew a flavored batch of fruit. I know of all methods od doing this during boiling, but had an idea I wanted to follow up on. Is it possible to get a sufficient amount of flavor by priming a batch with az pure fruit extract or concentrate? If so how much should I add? I was particularly thinking of adding 3-4 cups of pure cherry extract to my stout. I thoght the flavor obtained from this method might be more perky as it is added right before bottling. Any comments or suggestions are greatly appreciated! Bottoms up, Andy Return to table of contents
Date: 2 Nov 94 19:41:00 GMT From: korz at ihpubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583) Subject: Dead yeast as a nutrient for live yeast I have a question, which I would like to hash-out off-line. Could some microbiologist homebrewer out there please contact me for a discussion of "dead yeast as a nutrient for live yeast." I promise to post the results of our discussions to the digest. Thanks. Al. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 94 17:34:09 +1000 From: ANDY WALSH <awalsh at ozemail.com.au> Subject: dried apricots in beer Pierre Jelenc asks: >Is there a problem with the sulfite content of dried apricots? I plan on >making something like a strong ale with apricots in the secondary, but I >am afraid that the amounts of sulfites may be too high for even a >domesticated yeast to tolerate. Is this in fact the case? Is there a way >to get rid of sulfites gently (i.e. not by boiling)? I too have wondered about dried apricots in brewing. I have not tried this method, but have a feeling it may work. Any constructive comments are welcomed. I assume Pierre already has dried apricots containing sodium metabisulphite (SM). First step. Primary ferment your beer (sans apricots) as usual. Rack to secondary as usual. Remove a healthy portion of primary yeast cake (wash as per yeast faq if you want) and store in fridge. Second Step. Steep apricots in warm water (150F??) to remove some SM from them. The trouble is you want to retain flavour whilst removing SM. As SM is readily soluble, a short soak (15-20 mins?) should help leach out the SM whilst keeping flavour. You could always soak and keep tasting the apricots until they start tasting like ... um... not like dried, soggy, apricots! I know some advocate treating fruit with SM rather than steeping in hot water, for beer making. Small quantities in beer are not a problem as the SO2 generated is blown off (aside: SO2 is a very pungent gas, generated from SM in acidic environments, like fermented beer.) SM is used in winemaking to stop fermentation. So presumably, large quantities will kill the yeast off and stop fermentation which is not desirable. So if you add the cooled fruit (pour off the liquid of course) to the secondary after fermentation has slowed, either the yeast will tolerate it or not. If it does, (shown by renewed activity in the airlock), then there are no problems. Just wait for a couple of weeks more (to ensure all SO2 is gone), then keg or bottle as usual. If not, then you get sneaky. Third Step (if you have to get sneaky). If there is no unusual airlock activity one week after adding apricots, remove saved yeast from fridge (make up starter if you think it is necessary - I don't), and add to beer. By this stage the SO2 *should* have blown off, making the beer a friendly place for yeasties again. If there are any fermentables left, fermentation should pick up once more. Proceed as usual. All of the above is pure conjecture, I might add. Whaddyareckon maties? Andy Walsh. (awalsh at ozemail.com.au) "For fox sake buy me a Firkin pint" Bruce's Brewery. Fox and Firkin. Lewisham. UK. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 1994 22:41:18 -0800 From: especkma at reed.edu (Erik Speckman) Subject: NJ homebrew supply controversy It seems like that HBD has been full of controversy lately and I guess there is just going to have to be a bit more. I am going to say that I am not particularly fond of long posts about geographically constrained subjects. I don't expect every post to the HBD to be of interest to a majority of the readers. That said, I think it is pretty obvious that info on local homebrew shops is going to be of rather limited interest. Maybe only a few people are interested in the qualities of peat smoked malts but there is a good chance interested parties are spread across the country, if not the globe. On the other hand, the people who are interested in the NJ homebrew retail scene are likely to be limited to the NJ area. Same goes for TX, CA or the PNW. Post a short pointer to e-mail, gopher, ftp or something. If there really are alot of people who are interested in the local/regional homebrew scene then maybe it makes sense to set up a regional mailing list. If you want to do this I think it is OK to post a short notice asking for help, then take the discussion to private e-mail until you are ready to make the annoncement that the list is on-line. People living outside your geographical region can sign up if they are interested, but please, leave the rest of us blissfully ignorant of who has the best selection of bottle caps in the tri-cities area. As for the ubiquitous brew-pub requests, I have mixed feelings, but I think they have more of a place. I don't travel much myself (unfortunatly), but I can see that brew-pub info might be of broad interest because people are interested in a good place to eat and drink when they travel. I think they are considerably less interested in places to buy 50 lbs of grain, a pack of liquid yeast and a few gross of bottles (yes, I am sure some of you are). That said, I would like to once again encourage people on the edge to make the plunge into all-grain or large partial mashes. After brewing a 1.060 IPA from grains and 4 lb of extract I moved up to an all grain porter. The IPA turned out great and the porter went pretty well. I think my formulation may have been a bit funny but the mash worked great. I hit my target OG within 2 points. I have a smallish pot so I am doing concentrated boils and I only collect 4.5-5 gal of runnings but it is a hell of alot cheaper than brewing from extract and I only spent another $10 to make a lauter tun out of a 5 gal bucket, a spigot, a few feet of copper tubing and some reflective plastic bubble-wrap for insulation. ______________________________________________________________________ Erik A. Speckman Seattle, Washington Good Brain Doesn't Suck especkma at reed.edu especkma at halcyon.com Copyright, 1994 Erik Speckman. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 1994 12:56:38 +0000 From: Brian Gowland <B.Gowland at rhbnc.ac.uk> (Tel +44 784 443167) Subject: Re: Malting Process In HBD 1569, WSPEIGHTS at ntia.doc.gov wrote: > > Will someone explain the malting process to me, please. AND..Is it > possible or practical to do it myself? Thanks. > To be simplistic, the process of malting is allowing the grains of barley to germinate. A grain is actually a seed and, in nature, when this seed falls to the ground, if the conditions are right, the seed will germinate and begin its journey to becoming a plant in its own right. During the germination process, the grain goes through internal changes and produces the starch (complex sugars) that we, as brewers, use to produce our fermentable solutions. Malting grain is simply the process of providing the right conditions (temp. and moisture) to allow it to germinate and then halting the process by drying the grain. As a secondary process, the grain, as well as being dried, can also be kilned at higher temperatures in order to produce the various speciality malts (crystal, chocolate, black etc.). It is possible to malt your own grain but whether it is worth the effort is for each individual to decide. The only source of information about malting at home that I have seen is "The Historical Companion to House Brewing" by Clive La Pensee (I think) but there are, no doubt, many others. Cheers, Brian Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 1994 06:43:43 CST From: rwmech at eagle.ais.net (Robert Mech) Subject: Wort Cooler I am curious if an "Immersion" type wort cooler would be better than one where the brew runs through the copper. The reason that im asking this is because im going to be making it myself. I personaly thought that making it an immersion type would be better since im washing the OUTSIDE of the tubeing instead of the inside. I thought it would be more sanitary since its hard to get a bottle brush inside 1/4 inch copper tubing :-). Ok, so here is my plan, basicly running cold water though the immersion setup, while it rests in the beer. I figured this would give the same effect. If anyone has pro's / con's of doing this, id like to hear them. Robert =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= |+#####+ Relax, | Robert W. Mech - rwmech at eagle.ais.net | || |-+ Don't | Freelance Programming, Support and Administration | || | | worry, |---------------------------------------------------------+ || |-+ have a | Share your brew too! WWW Server | Above Text Copyright| ||_____| homebrew!| http://freak.ais.net/home.html | 1994 Robert W. Mech | =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 1994 08:19:50 -0500 From: Art Steinmetz <asteinm at pipeline.com> Subject: re:Sparge water pH adjustments begin 755 file.new M3&5E($)O;&QA<F0 at /&)O;&QA<F1`<W!K+FAP+F-O;3X at 87-K960 at 86)O=70 at M<')O<&5R('-P87)G92!W871E<B!P2"!A9&IU<W1M96YT<RX-" at T*3&]O:R!I M;B!B86-K(&ES<W5E<R!O9B!T:&4 at :&)D(&9O<B!T:&ES(&UE<W-A9V4Z#0H- M"CX at 1&%T93H at 36]N+"`Q."!!<'( at ,3DY-"`P.3HP,#HQ."`K,3`P,"`H15-4 M*0T*/B!&<F]M.B!$879I9"!$<F%P97( at /&1D<F%P97)`;&%U<F5L+F]C<RYM M<2YE9'4N874^#0H^(%-U8FIE8W0Z($1A=F4 at 3&EN92=S(%=A=&5R(%1R96%T M;65N='\-" at T*06QT97)N871E(%-U8FIE8W0Z(%=A=&5R(%1R96%T;65N="!F M;W( at 1'5M;6EE<RX at ($D at 9&]N)W0 at =V%N="!T;R!M97-S('=I=& at at 86QL('1H M870 at 8VAE;2`Q,#$ at <W1U9F8N("!-97-S>2!O;&0 at :6]N<R!A;F0 at 8G5F9F5R M<R!A;F0 at =VAO(&MN;W=S('=H870 at 96QS92X at 5&AI<R!M97-S86=E(&=I=F4 at M=&AE('-I;7!L97-T(')E8VEP92!F;W( at =V%T97( at =')E86UE;G1S($DG=F4 at M>65T('-E96XN#0H-"BTM#0I!<G0 at 4W1E:6YM971Z($Y90R].2 at T*26YT97)N M970Z(&%S=&5I;FU`<&EP96QI;F4N8V]M#0I#;VUP=7-E<G9E.B`W-C`T-"PS %,C`T#0IS ` end Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 94 08:04:34 CST From: a207613 at sun278.dseg.ti.com (Stephen Tinsley) Subject: Liberty Ale Success Story Good news from the home front, my Liberty Ale came out great! Three weeks ago I began an attempt at Anchor Liberty Ale (one of my all-time faves), which was also my first foray into the partial-mash world. It was extremely hard work, having never mashed before, and I was getting a little worried (apologies to Charlie) that it wouldn't come out. I got the base recipe off of the Cat's Meow, then consulted with some local homebrew club regulars to come up with some grain additions. The recipe that I used is as follows: (5 gallons) 8 lbs Munton and Fisons light malt extract 1/2 lb 40L Crystal Malt 1/2 lb Munich Malt 1/2 lb Cara Pils Malt 1.5 oz Fuggles Hops (bittering) 3.5 oz Cascade Hops (flavor, aroma, dry-hop etc) Wyeast 1056 American Ale yeast culture Mash the Crystal, Munich and Cara Pils malts in a couple of quarts of 150 degree (all degrees in Farenheit, sorry non-US) water for about 30 minutes. Raise the temperature to 158 degrees, and hold it for 15 minutes. Raise the temperature to 168 degrees briefly, then sparge with another quart or two of 170 degree water. Add a gallon of water to mash, then boil it with the malt extract for 60 minutes. At the beginning of the boil add 1.5 oz Fuggles Hops. At 30 minutes add 1 oz Cascades. At 10 minutes add 1/2 oz Cascades. At the end of the boil, turn off the burner and add 1/2 oz of Cascades. Let this steep for 5-10 minutes. Cool and strain (if you aren't using hop bags) into fermenter. Pitch yeast and top off with cold water. Rack it in 1 week, and add 1.5 oz Cascades to the secondary fermenter. Wait one more week and bottle with 3/4 cups corn sugar. Wait one more week and serve very cold. Notes: Medium color, about like Anchor Liberty, but not as "orange". More of a light red color, reminiscent of Bass Ale. Serious hop nose! The cascade smell jumps right out of the glass. Good initial bitterness, Cascade is very assertive on the pallate, and finishes with light orange notes and a hint of spice. Pleasant aftertaste, and no off flavors. Excellent mouth-feel, plenty of body. No alcohol hotness at all, though the feeling in my head tells me it's all there! If I make this one again, and I think I probably will, I might use less Cascades for dry hopping. I used nothing but hop pellets, but I think next time I'll try using plugs, at least in the secondary. I thought I was going to have a problem with particles in the beer from the hop pellets in the secondary, but they eventually sank to the bottom, and I just siphoned above them. The beer is perfectly clear. I would suggest this recipe for anyone trying to emulate Anchor Liberty Ale. Cheers! Steve Tinsley a207613 at moe.dseg.ti.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 1994 09:22 EDT From: HEWITT at arcges.arceng.com Subject: assorted 1). So whats next --- ([{(Saddam Adams)TM, The Mother}TM of Boston]TM Beers)TM ???? 2). Label soaking: On a friends advice I tried tri-sodium phosphate (TSP) to soak bottles in an attempt to remove labels. Only the cleanser I purchased was TSP-F phosphate-free. After a two day soak I removed the labels, rinsed, and dried. Left behind was a layer of white film inside and outside the bottle. Rinsing and rubbing would remove the layer, but trace amounts left on the inside worried me. Even a cycle in the dishwasher with Cascade wouldn't remove it. All 48 bottles are now at the bottom of a recycling bin. Future users beware; I think I'll stick to pure water. 3). I recently subscribed to the cider digest, and found that when added to the mailing list, you receive an informative package of where to go to read about the basics, a summary of the basic process, a sample recipe, etc. All of which I think would be appropriate for people joining the HBD. I realize not all new subscribers are beginning brewers, but something like this may prevent future Malt Pres. flame wars. Any comments? Pat Hewitt (hewitt at arceng.com) Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 1994 09:40:08 -0500 (EST) From: greg at kgn.ibm.com (Greg Holton) Subject: Malting > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 31 Oct 1994 09:19:54 -0500 > From: WSPEIGHTS at ntia.doc.gov > Subject: Malting Process > > Will someone explain the malting process to me, please. AND..Is it > possible or practical to do it myself? Thanks. There's a good article on this subject in the Zymurgy All Grain special issue from a few years ago. Many homebrew shops stock reprints of the special issues, or you can order them from the AHA. Greg Holton Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 1994 9:59:58 EST From: John R. Boatman <c23jrb at kopt0002.delcoelect.com> Subject: Phenol??? My latest batch has a slight plastic kind of aftertaste. Is this phenol? What can cause phenol? Will it get better/worse with time? Is it harmful? TIA Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 1994 9:55:50 -0500 (EST) From: "Rick Gontarek, Ph.D." <GONTAREK at FCRFV1.NCIFCRF.GOV> Subject: Hopefully not a worthless post Amidst the flame wars, the valiant homebrewer steps onto the information superhighway. There, with trepidation, he makes a stop at the once- friendly planet Homebrew Digest to ask a question... Seriously, folks, leave your egos at the door and let's get back to brewing better beer. With that said, I have several questions regarding all-grain brewing. I have made about six all-grain batches with a minimal expenditure of equipment, but I now am thinking about a slight upgrade. I have on my Christmas wish list a Gott cooler that I would like to use as a mash/lauter tun. I have read lots about this setup, but I have a few questions (a few things have escaped my understanding). First of all, I've read about either a PVC or a copper manifold. Do these devices lay by themselves in the bottom of the cooler, or do you still need a screen above them? Doesn't some manufacturer make a dome-shaped plastic screen that is placed in the bottom of the cooler but above the spigot? I have lots of brewing catalogues, but I can't seem to find this piece of equipment. If anybody could steer me in the right direction, I'd surely appreciate it. I have a Zapap setup that I'm currently using. Dave Miller says to gently recirculate the cloudy first-runnings to clear them up. How long does this *really* take? I usually lose patience after about 10 or so minutes (several quarts), and just sparge without any further recirculation. After cooling the boiled wort, I usually just stay away from the goop at the bottom. I have come to ralize that I am nowhere *near* the brewing King that Dave Miller is (ie, I can't get an o.g. of 1.075 from 5 lbs of grain...sarcasm), but I want to know how other mere mortal brewers do this. TIA for the help. Now that I've asked my (worthless) questions, you may continue the flame wars... Cheers, Rick Gontarek gontarek at fcrfv1.ncifcrf.gov Owner/brewmaster of the Major Groove Picobrewery Baltimore, MD Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 1994 09:59:17 -0500 (EST) From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com> Subject: Re: More Wit bier tips > Bobdabrewer asks about Wit in HBD 1567: > > > Because I am using 4 lbs. of Belgian pale malt to 5 lbs. of flaked adjunct > > (4 wheat & 1 oats) I'm concerned, not worried, about 1.Conversion & 2.Set > > mash. I agree w/ Lee that a decoction schedule is needed here but,once was > > enough for me ....this is suppose to be fun. > > I am puzzled by this assertion that a decoction is appropriate in a Wit. A > Wit is very light in body, big maltiness being inappropriate (now, a Grand > Cru is a different thing entirely...) Maybe we're talking about a > Competition Wit? I think a decoction would get you a better lauter, but I > think the effect on the body would be detrimental. I agree in the body comment, but the lauter can be successful with the proper multistep upward mash program. > > Protein rest at ~125F for 30 min. Apply heat only to slowly bring up to > sacc rest at ~153F for 60-90 min. Mashout at 172F for 10 min. OG 1.048. The point I would like to reiterate on making Wits is to employ multiple protein rests, begin around 118-122F, and rest for 15 min. Up to 126F and rest 15 min, then up to 129-132F and rest for 15 min. By using the staged rests the lauter will work fine. A single rest may not be adequate to handle the raw wheat. You should also use a very thin mash, double the dough in water per pound of grains. Good brewing Jim Busch Return to table of contents
Date: 2 Nov 1994 14:39:16 -0800 From: "Charles Webster" <Charles_Webster at macmail.lbl.gov> Subject: Beerstone removal? Subject: Time:2:36 PM OFFICE MEMO Beerstone removal? Date:11/2/94 I've recently noticed a large buildup of beerstone on the inside of my 1/2 bbl keg kettle and on my immersion wort chiller. 1. Is the buildup harmful in any way (like harboring harmful beasties)? 2. Is there an easy way to remove the buildup (preferably without using extremely caustic substances)? Thanks in advance We'll drink no beer before it's time. (And I think it's time now!) <Chas> CLWebster at lbl.gov Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 94 10:36:37 EST From: uswlsrap at ibmmail.com Subject: RE: HOW LOW? - -------------------- Mail Item Text Follows ------------------ To: I1010141--IBMMAIL From: Bob Paolino Research Analyst Subject: RE: HOW LOW? The question was how low can you go in fermentables and still have an okay beer From my experience with very low gravity beers, pretty low. The key may be the _non_ fermentables you use. Partly as an experiment and partly for a holiday party at work, I decided to brew "Swill Light." There _are_ people at work who appreciate homebrew and eagerly snap up some of the extra bottles. But there are others who are swillers. Ingredients: One 3.3 pound bag of NW extract (cost:$5), a pound of DeWC carapils (cost:$.95), an ounce of hop pellets (EKG, I think, for bittering and Saaz for finish; cost:$.85), and a pack of Edme ale yeast (cost:$.70). (costs of water, electricity, labour, et cetera not included in estimate) O.G. was 1.024, far less than AHA guidelines for American lager, and too much colour, hop, and flavour for a Diet/Light. T.G. was, if I remember correctly, 1.008) I tried to rush things a bit and bottled too soon, and it had noticeable amounts of diacetyl (very noticeable in such a light brew) and it didn't go over too big at the party--most people wanted the real stuff. (My labels probably didn't help, either. I called it Swill Light and called it the-beer-for-people-who-don't-really-like-beer-but-like-to-be-seen-with-one-in- their-hands. Despite the diacetyl, it was drinkable, but not something you'd drink if something else was around. But it was young then. Time--and the yeast in the bottle--did its work on the diacetyl. It was light bodied and low alcohol, but it did have some body and some hop character (good balance--the ou nce, divided between bittering and finishing, was not excessive). It was at le Bob Paolino Disoriented in Badgerspace Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 94 10:42:03 EST From: uswlsrap at ibmmail.com Subject: RE: HOW LOW? - -------------------- Mail Item Text Follows ------------------ To: I1010141--IBMMAIL From: Bob Paolino Research Analyst Subject: RE: HOW LOW? as good as your standard Canadian ale, but a lot cheaper. With the diacetyl problem taken care of, I entered it in the Wisconsin State Fair in the catch-all category as a low-alcohol beer and took a third place ribbon. The judges didn't think it was anything exciting in the context of the universe of homebrews, but thought it reasonably well-done for the kind of beer I was brewing. No cheap adjuncts. More flavour with half the alcohol! Now we know what the "Ice beer" ads mean when they say "more of what you want" (alcohol) and "less of what you don't" (body, flavour). Looks like I turned that one upside down. Bob Paolino Disoriented in Badgerspace Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 1994 10:47:51 EST From: Kimberly Carney <kim at MIT.EDU> Subject: Re: Belgium Here I Come! =>So, I would be very interested in hearing =>from anyone who has had interesting brewery experiences or =>found the perfect atmosphere in some quaint rural tavern. Any =>information will be greatly appreciated. Pickup Michael Jackson's book on the beers of Belgium. It describes each of the various styles of beer, and if I remember correctly includes pointers to pubs. Because of some obscure copyright law I could not get the book in the US, and had to order it from the UK. You may be able to get it in Canada. Jackson, Michael, 1942- The great beers of Belgium : a complete guide and celebration of a unique culture / 2nd ed. Antwerp, Belgium : M.M.C.-CODA, 1992. 271 p. : col. ill. ; 25 cm. Since my travel lifelist includes visiting the beer capitals of the world (Belgium, UK, Czechoslovakia), I've starting gathering information. I have a few articles on pubs featuring lambics, krieks, and other misc bits of information. If you're interested let me know and I'll fax you copies. Good Luck and Have Fun! Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 94 10:40:57 EST From: Philip Proefrock <PSPROEFR at MIAMIU.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU> Subject: Copyright and Distribution I don't want to fan the flames on this copyright debate any more than they already are, but I personally don't see a whole lot of difference between the recovery of cost for someone who is taking the time and effort to make paper copies of the HBD for people who don't have 'Net access (but who are interested in the topic) and the profit-making of someone who sells commercial access to the 'Net (eg. AOL, GEnie, etc.) through which many people now get their access to the HBD. In fact, I find the paper version less exploitative and purer of motive, as far as "protecting our rights" goes. I run a (non-beer-related) 'Net newsletter, and we are thinking about making paper copies which we would mail to people who are interested in the topic areas, but who don't have 'Net access. I think it's just increasing the distribution for the material, and the money that may change hands is only to offset the costs of photocopies and postage. When the commercial access providers start paying us authors a royalty for the distribution of our writing, then I think it's fair to raise the copyright question. Until then, I think we want to encourage the free flow of ideas, rather than getting all worked up over actually collecting on our $.02. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 1994 15:47:28 +0000 (GMT) From: WADE GARY L <WADE_GARY_L at Lilly.com> Subject: Brewpot Stuff Brewpot Stuff Thanks to the many who responded to my enquiry about aluminum brewpots. It looks like several brewers are using aluminum with no ill effects. I received no negative comments on this issue. Thanks again! Gary Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 94 10:51:55 -0500 From: faulks at bng.ge.com (John T Faulks) Subject: Mash Yield Calculations I have been trying to track mash yields to see if things like the sparge temperature, maltmill settings, runoff rates etc can be optimised for my process. Looking back over recent batches, it seems like all I have is noisy data - from 24 to 31 pts per pound and no strong correlations. Looking at the way I set up the calculation, knowing the grain and OG values is straightforward. But I got to thinking about the wort volume. I had been using the volume in the primary fermenter. But last batch, I checked how much cold break slurry I threw out, nearly 3 quarts. So if I include this discard in the yield calculation I am 5.75/5 or 15% better off. That gets me into Miller territory (well almost), my 28 pts yield goes to 32 for this batch. While I haven't been measuring this discard volume, it does vary quite a bit batch to batch - big brews with lots of hops produce more cold break. Since bigger yields make me feel better, I will be using the fermenter plus discard volume in future calculations. There are probably lots of you who do this already, but Obvious Improvements take the longest to discover. Overall, I don't feel that bad though. Through HBD I have made a number of changes with good results. Upgrading to the maltmill improved things by 2-4 pts, using hotter sparge water (190-195) and insulating keeps the grain bed at about 170 (previously I was using about 175 and the bed cooled to less than 150) and improved things another 2 pts. Finally, controlling the runoff rate makes a big difference. Slowing the runoff gave me much more runoff (!) and improved the yield 3 pts. The only problem with that last batch is the sparge water neets to be hotter, or I need to cover my zap-pap setup to stop the heat loss from the top. Well there is always another batch to do. John Faulks faulks at bng.ge.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 1994 09:05:44 -0700 (MST) From: Mark_Worwetz at Novell.COM (Mark Worwetz) Subject: Thanks! Local Info for Utah Howdy from ZION! I wanted to thank the people who answered my questions about cider making and Kolsch yeast. I will never worry about smelly cider or mead again. This is why I love the HBD! :^) One key fact I received and verified about cider making is to NOT use Champagne yeast! This stuff ferments everything, and leaves a very dry (.996 FG), sharp finish. Use ale yeast instead. Hopefully age will mellow it. For the brewers along the Wasatch Front in Utah: I have been able to score new 5+ gallon glass carboys at Allied periodically for a mere 10 bucks. Now for an editorial: I have been reading and contributing to this forum for about 18 months and have never entered the flame wars. But I have noticed that for every little post like my local interest note above, there are about 20 replies from people complaining about a waste of bandwidth! Is there irony there? Also, subjects come up again and again every few months (about time for a MM discussion again, eh?). It's just the way it is. Deal with it. Let's not flame new subscribers when they ask about non-standard acronyms (like SMM) or techniques. It takes less bandwidth to answer a question than to flame. Now, I'll jump into my new asbestos, tie-dyed suit, have a homebrew, and relax in front of the fire ;^). Thank you, you're beautiful! Mark_Worwetz at Novell.COM PS. Hoppy Brewing! Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 1994 08:13:51 -0800 (PST) From: Jeff Frane <gummitch at teleport.com> Subject: Re: Grain Storage Jeff Stampes writes: > > How about storing large quantities of grain? Is temperature a > consideration? I have only a quite cool cellar (well-ventilated to the > mountain air to keep the temps VERY low) to store it in. I was going to > purchase a couple of large Rubbermaid tubs to keep 50lb. bags in to keep > the rats out of it and keep it down there . . . any problems I may > not be considering? > You have a good handle on storage. Key element is moisture control. If you keep the grain well sealed (I keep mine in their bags *and* in a sealed plastic tub) in a relatively dry environment, you will not have t o worry about (a) deterioration of the malt or (b) vermin. According to a professional presentation at Great Western Malting I attended several years ago, keeping the moisture down below 5% (which is where it should be when you buy it) will mean that insect pests and rodents will not be attracted to it. You might put some traps in, if you think there are mousies around, and make sure there are no gaps in the lids of your tubs for mousies to climb through (they can get through *very* small spaces). I buy all my malt in bulk and keep it much the way you describe. SO far <knock wood> no insects, no mousies, and no mold. - --Jeff Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 1994 08:16:50 -0800 From: Richard B. Webb <rbw1271 at appenine.ca.boeing.com> Subject: Uses for the HBD Look! A dead horse! Let's flog it some more! The scribe for our club newsletter was taken to task for incorporating some information found in the HBD into the club newsletter. This letter is a not for profit source of information to brewers, many who do not have access to the HBD. OK all of you budding author wanna-bees. How do you feel about this subject? Does my club need to pay royalties for use of the information presented in this public discussion? I don't see what the problem is. A majority (pick your percentage, 50%, 75%, 99%?) of what appears in this forum is of little use to the average brewer. It seems that it is most useful for the passive-aggressive nerd-brewer who wants to stomp on as many toes as possible. Every once in a while, a truly golden nugget of information comes along. I save these nuggets in a file, adding to it when a new nugget comes along. There are several writters out there who are doing their damndest to keep the quality level high. (I thought that I was one of them, until I started writing this post, only to realize that in doing so, I was perpetuating the problem...) Any attempt to translate to hard copy and sell this forum would be met with the requirement that all of the flotsam and jetsam be removed first. But what if we take the remainder, good, solid information from competent brewers/writers, and made it available to other brewers? There must be 400 clubs in the US alone, and their 400 newsletters are in constant need of 'filler' of some kind. Do we allow this sort of copying and dissemination? I hope so. This forum is for sharing ideas and experiences. If you get more kicks out of flaming this and dissing that, maybe we could start another fourm for you. Until then, I suggest we keep the BEER digest onto the subject of BEER. And mead, cider, wine, sake, kettles, chillers, yeasts, grain, etc. I'm here if you want to flame me. I'll try not to take it personally. I'll even look at them before dumping to null.void. But at least those flames will not have to appear on the digest, and I know that I'll be doing thousands of people all around the planet the favor of keeping them from having to read about people disagreeing with me... And now back to our BEER discussion, Rich Webb Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 1994 11:33:36 -0500 (EST) From: "Ulick Stafford" <ulick at ulix.rad.nd.edu> Subject: Who says communism is dead After considering the objections to the publication of hbd, it seems that the core objection comes to breaking the commandment, thou shalt not make a profit. People seem to have a rather odd naive notion that there is the chance to make megabucks off publishing hbd. Oh that making money were so easy! I want someone to explain how some extortionist capitalist speculator dog is going to makes millions from the wit and advice contained in hbd. Please respond by email since I don't want everyone getting the same idea. I will gladly share a percentage of those exorbitant profits I will make. And Bob Bussy, if you were familiar with nettiquette you would have kept our email discussion private. Or were you insulting the intelligence of hbd readers by thinking that you had disguised me well enough? Brewing answer. Grains should be boiled in decoctions to gelatanize starch, while preserving as many of the enzymes as possible in the mostly liquid rest mash. __________________________________________________________________________ `Heineken!?! ... F#$% that s at &* ... | Dr. Ulick Stafford, Dept of Chem. Eng. Pabst Blue Ribbon!' | Notre Dame IN 46556 http://ulix.rad.nd.edu/Ulick.html | Ulick.Stafford at nd.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 1994 10:44:32 -0600 (CST) From: "Todd M. McGuinness" <tmmpci at Mcs.Net> Subject: Enough is Enough! Sorry to waste Bandwidth -- Is anyone tired of the wasted bandwidth on our supposedly Constructive Forum. If you want to flame someone do it on personal mail time. Period. End of story. And now for something completely differant! tmm Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 94 10:03:04 MST From: wall at simtek.com (Todd Wallinger) Subject: Re: Useless Posts Sure, we can always skip over posts we are not interested in, but keep in mind that the HBD is not an infinite resource: it is limited to about 1000 lines per day. Every post that gets published means another post won't. This is not to say that every post has to appeal to every HBD reader or even a majority of the readers. That is impossible. But I do think that every post should appeal to some reasonable percentage of us (perhaps 5-10%). For example, mashing information won't appeal to extract brewers, but will still be of interest to the large number of brewers (probably > 50%) that do an occasional mash. Likewise, fruit beer recipes won't appeal to the purists among us, but there is still a decent-sized minority (at least 20%) that brews them regularly. On the other hand, there is no reason to expect that posts about particular homebrew shops will appeal to more than 1% of all HBD readers. This, I feel, is a waste of bandwidth. Tolerance is a virtue, but so is discretion. Brew on, Todd Wallinger Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 1994 10:26:29 -0600 (MDT) From: COYOTE <SLK6P at cc.usu.edu> Subject: Keg Walls, Decoction, Grain Storage >Keg in fridge, serve thru the wall. Holes for tank, holes for taps. * Ya sure. Been there, done that. kinda I started with just holes and tubes, then when I moved up from a picnic tap to a chrome pull handle- bar style... I added a shank for the beer side. Still not thru a wall yet...but maybe a floor! I have the CO2 on ones side with two holes cuz I split the line and added separate shutoffs. Then two lines on the other side for beer. I also put one of those wall-style openers there two. Plus the obligatory rauchy beer ad poster for abusive entertainment. (well, needless to say, that was in the bachelor days. The Mrs. doesnt exaclty care for the T&A brew ads. Animals are ok, and mnts... :) I chose not to got through the door cuz I didn't want the taps and tubes swinging all over the place. I now have the taps sitting above the laundry/brew! sink I installed in the garage/brewery. Makes for a handy drip tray, plus simpler line flushing. But it sounds like you're going all out. Great I say! You could consider a shank or two for you tap lines in the wall. Oliver D. Ennis has all kinds of BAR type bits and pieces. They've even got a kit for what you're talking about. I think Fox has most of them too. You can go as fancy (expensive!) or cheap as you want. I even found an old "schhlitz" tall pull tap. Sanded the crap off, and am awaiting an artistic flare to emblazen it with more correct glorification. Check salvation, used surplus antique goodies. Never know what you might find. Here's the address: Oliver D. Ennis Inc 4151-53 Sepulveda Blvd. Culver City, CA. 90230 (213) 391-2228 397-8190 (800) 1800 84ENNIS 843-6647 Lots of bar supplies for tapping beer. They've got some top notch equipment and all the individual repair parts and connectors. You might want to ask for a price list with the catalog. No relation. blah de blah. *** >From: gtrageser at maugham.atc.edmonton.ab.ca (Gunther H. Trageser) Subject: Decoction Mash .... He describes various decoction regimens and what puzzles me is that he seems to include grain with the decoctions.... one is told to take 'a stiff decoction, bring it up to conversion temperature, give it a conversion rest and then boil for up to 45 minutes' ... This implies that grain is included in the decoction. Any experts out there who can help me out? * Sounds like the trick. You do want to boil the grain portion. You run it thru a mini conversion, then boil to break up starch conglomerates and make more starch available. The enzymes are soluble and remain in the liquid. If you just remove liquid for a decoction you kill some of the enzymes, and don't make MORE starch available. Just don't burn it. Part of what makes a decoction work is the early COOL acid rest. Don't mashin hot, or it won't be acidic enough. By lowering the pH you protect the grain from losing to much tannin into the brew. During a sparge, you don't want to get things too hot cuz you lose some of the buffering of the mash, and can be more likely to draw out tannin, but a brief boil under the right conditions does no harm. Noonan's book (lagering) is pretty good on this. *** > From: jeff at neocad.com (Jeff Stampes) Subject: Grain storage > How about storing large quantities of grain? Is temperature a consideration? I have only a quite cool cellar (well-ventilated to the mountain air to keep the temps VERY low) to store it in. I was going to purchase a couple of large Rubbermaid tubs to keep 50lb. bags in to keep the rats out of it and keep it down there . . . any problems I may not be considering? * Cool and dry. I prefer metal containers. Some rats have tough teeth! Watch out for weevils too. If you put your grain in a bag in a can you can keep more air/moisture away from the valued seed! I've commonly stored into the hundreds of pounds of grain at a time. And no problem. I've got one can which is suffering weevils, but now that winters here- I can put it out for a freeze and kill the bastards! It's another one of those things I get at thrift sales. Old rectangular wheat cans, or big lard cans, I also use Iams dog food cans from givaways. The cool thing really isn't as critical as the dry thing. Freezing probably isn't the best thing for enzymes. I'll post again. Like- real soon... L8r John- The Coyote Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1570, 11/04/94