FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Sulfite update (Pierre Jelenc)
  RED DOG (Greg Niznik)
  using yeast from bottles (MATTD)
  Carboy Cleaning (Roger Stelk)
  Lo carb w/malt priming (bio_hannan)
  molasses (Gary Bell)
  Conditioning with New Yeast (Wolfe)
  Carboys and Autoclaves Don't Mix ("Timothy P. Laatsch)
  low carbonation (RONALD MOUCKA)
  High-temp lager yeasts? ("Timothy P. Laatsch)
  Oxygenation Problems (MYETTE)
  Trouble in Paradise ("Warren G. Schaibbe")
  Chuck and coriander (uswlsrap)
  Iodine test / Too hot mash (Domenick Venezia)
  Counter pressure bottling (Bob Jones)
  IN SEARCH OF...... ("KEVIN A. KUTSKILL")
  Wyeast Bavarian Weizen (Harry Covert)
  HSA (djfitzg)
  Best Location for  a brewery = ?????? ("Robert W. Mech")
  Adding water (Domenick Venezia)
  Three testimonials: PET bottles, coriander, yeast (Matthew Sendbuehler)
  When to stop sparging (Harry Covert)
  Saving yeast ("Mark A. Melton")
  iodine taste (DONBREW)
  Yeasties Beasties? (BrewerLee)
   (Blake Kincaid)
   (Blake Kincaid)
  New Bench Capper... (Bob Bessette)
  perpetual fermentation ("Charles S. Jackson")
  Yeast Lab's European Lager (dry) (guyruth)
  Northern Moravia hops ? (David Elm)
  15 gallon brew system (CliffR3500)
  Oregano beer!!! ??? ("Jeffrey W. Van Deusen")
  TSP wall cleaner (Jeff Benjamin)
  Encore acronyms ("NAME SEAN O'KEEFE, IFAS FOOD SCIENCE")
  yeast storage and other stuff (ANDY WALSH)



******************************************************************
* NEW POLICY NOTE: Due to the incredible volume of bouncing mail,
* I am going to have to start removing addresses from the list
* that cause ongoing problems. In particular, if your mailbox
* is full or your account over quota, and this results in bounced
* mail, your address will be removed from the list after a few days.
* 
* If you use a 'vacation' program, please be sure that it only
* sends a automated reply to homebrew-request *once*. If I get
* more than one, then I'll delete your address from the list.
******************************************************************
 
Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
  (Articles are published in the order they are received.)
Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc.,
  to homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com, BUT PLEASE NOTE that if
  you subscribed via the BITNET listserver (BEER-L at UA1VM.UA.EDU),
  then you MUST unsubscribe the same way! 
If your account is being deleted, please be courteous and unsubscribe first.
FAQs, archives and other files are available via anonymous ftp from 
  sierra.stanford.edu. (Those without ftp access may retrieve files via 
  mail from listserv at sierra.stanford.edu.  Send HELP as the body of a 
  message to that address to receive listserver instructions.) 
Please don't send me requests for back issues - you will be silently ignored.
For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen at novell.physics.umr.edu


----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Fri, 11 Nov 94 10:31:11 EST
From: Pierre Jelenc <pcj1 at columbia.edu>
Subject: Sulfite update

I am pleased to report that sulfites in dried apricots do not seem to be 
a problem.

Into 3 gallons of 1.080 wort, I pitched the yeast (Stoudt's stout from a
single colony) from a 2-liter starter.  Primary fermentation was over in
24 hrs. 

After an overnight rest, the beer was racked into a carboy containing 1.1
lbs of apricots that had been prepared as follows: they were split by hand
to expose the inside, then blanched in a lot of vigorously boiling water
for 30 seconds and drained immediately. This was intended to sanitize the
surface as well as to remove any large amounts of sulfites that might be
lurking there. 

Less than 30 min later, vigorous fermentation was observed, and the 
apricots began dancing at the bottom. By the next morning, they were all 
floating at the top, under a thick layer of froth and producing a steady 
stream of CO2. There was no noticeable sulfur smell.

In conclusion, then, sulfited dried fruit seem not to be a problem with 
respect to yeast activity. Further details on the recipe will be 
forthcoming if the results warrant it.

Pierre

Return to table of contents


Date:         Fri, 11 Nov 94  11:41:19 EST
From: Greg Niznik <GENIZN01 at ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU>
Subject:      RED DOG

Graduate Student
Phone: 852-5756

I saw a commercial on tv last night for RED DOG. I tried the Canadian
version of this beer last summer and loved it (BTW, they ran the same
commercial for it here in Kentucky as they did in Toronto last year).
Has anyone tried it here in the US who has also tried the original
Canadian version? Is it the same thing or a watered down version?

Thanks in advance

Greg


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 11 Nov 1994 10:23:17 -0700 (MST)
From: MATTD at UWYO.EDU
Subject: using yeast from bottles

     I am interested in using yeast from the bottom of beer bottles that I
can buy.  I was wondering what beers people have tried this with and what were
the results?  Private e-mail would be great.  I will post a summary in the 
near future.  Thanks.
					Matt Dickey
					Mattd at uwyo.edu

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 11 Nov 1994 11:18:16 -0600 (CST)
From: Roger Stelk <rogers at unllib.unl.edu>
Subject: Carboy Cleaning

Fellow HBDers,

I have recently picked up a free 5 g. carboy which I would like to start 
using as my secondary fermentor. The problem is that it has some haze  
left over from some type of liquid (it looks like floor wax) that was 
previously in it. I have soaked it in water for days and the haze is not 
disolving. The carboy is from a Chemistry lab so I imagine that the 
possibility exists that the crud could be quite nasty. Should I still 
use it, and does anyone have a simple method for removing this unwanted 
gunk? Private e-mail please. Many thanks,

Roger  
Email: rogers at unllib.unl.edu                                                    



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 11 Nov 1994 12:28:22 -0500
From: bio_hannan%emuvax.dnet.emich.edu at emunix.emich.edu
Subject: Lo carb w/malt priming

I recently (last month) bottled a batch of Bass-like ale (from Cat's
Meow) and decided to prime with dry light malt instead of my usual corn
sugar.  I increased priming sugar from 3/4 cup (the amount of corn sugar I
use for 5 gal.) to 1 1/4 cup (a la Papazian) of dry malt.  The first 2
bottles I tried after 2-3 weeks in the bottle were rather flat- slight
carbonation, but nothing like I get with corn sugar.  Multiple choice
question:  When using malt for priming, a) it takes longer to develop
carbonation in the bottle, b) I should have used more malt thatn Papazian
recommends, c) all my caps leaked, d) dry malt always gives milder carbonation,
e) don't worry about it- just get used to flat beer

Gary Hannan, Ypsilanti, MI

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 11 Nov 1994 09:47:06 -0800
From: gbell at ix.netcom.com (Gary Bell)
Subject: molasses

Klaus Vogel at Unigoo (vogel at net2.eos.uoguelph.ca) wrote about using 
blackstrap molasses. 

Dave Line's recipe calls for Black Treacle, and English molasses 
[molassum? ;-)] that is much "softer" than blackstrap which, I think, is 
what they use to surface highways in Florida. I think that you should be 
able to get Treacle in Canada, it's made by Lyle's (Tate & Lyle) who 
also make Corn Syrup. 

I've also found "Barbados Molasses" in a local health food store which 
seems a lot like Treacle.

Cheers,


- -- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gary Bell				   "Quis dolor cui dolium?"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Return to table of contents


Date: 11 Nov 94 11:25 CST
From: Wolfe at act-12-po.act.org
Subject: Conditioning with New Yeast

I'm getting ready to bottle a sparkling mead that has been sitting in a
carboy for about three months.  I'm planning to use a liquid champagne
yeast to condition it.

Question:  Do I need to make a starter prior to adding the yeast to the
mead?  If so, how much?

My main concern is that, if I only add the contents of the swollen smack
packet, (even with a thorough mixing prior to bottling) there will not be a
high enough concentration of yeast cells to condition the mead.

Ed Wolfe
wolfe at act-12-po.act.org

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 11 Nov 1994 12:48:11 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Timothy P. Laatsch <LAATSCH at kbs.msu.edu>" <LAATSCH at kbs.msu.edu>
Subject: Carboys and Autoclaves Don't Mix

Hello everyone,

Just a friendly warning:  Apparently carboys do not hold up well to repeated 
autoclave exposure.  Because I have ready access to an autoclave at work, I 
routinely autoclave my glass fermenters rather than hassling with chemical 
sanitizers.  I've had no problems at all....until last night.  I removed the 
carboy from the autoclave (with asbestos gloves, of course) by the neck and 
was beginning to place it into the original box that it came in, when lo and 
behold the neck snaps off cleanly in my gloved hand sending the carboy 
crashing to its ultimate demise.  Very fortunately, the box contained all the 
glass shards and I was uninjured.  I would estimate that the carboy had been 
autoclaved about 5-7 times.  Anybody else ever heard of this kind of thing??  
Was this a fluke or should I have anticipated this?  Regardless, I'm forced 
to deal with sanitizers now.  I've used ChemPro SDP and had good results, but 
it's so damned expensive.  Bleach is hard to rinse.  etc etc.  Any 
recommendations?

On a side note:  anybody need an 80 qt brewing kettle?  The families of the 
victims of Jeffery Dahmer are selling his possessions and among them...you 
guessed it....an 80 qt kettle.   Anybody for Dismemberment Dunkel?  Lobotomy 
Lager?  I know...I'm a sick, sick boy.  ;)

I'll stop wasting bandwidth now.  BREW ON!

Bones
======================
laatsch at kbs.msu.edu

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 11 Nov 1994 17:38:43 GMT
From: rmoucka at OMN.COM (RONALD MOUCKA)
Subject: low carbonation


Brewers,

I'm having a problem with this year's Christmas Brew that I
hope your collective wisdom can solve.  This year's brew is
a dark lager, flavored with cinnimon, fresh ginger, nutmeg,
orange peels, and honey.  It was fermented at 50 F for the
first week, and then gradually lowered to 40 F over the next
5 weeks.  Yield was a little larger than normal at ~6
gallons and FG was 1.014.  I used American Lager yeast.  I
primed with 3/4 c corn sugar and have been conditioning at
room temperature for 2 1/2 weeks.  I got great attenuation
and the brew was very bright and clear at bottling.
Carbonation is there, but just not enough for the style.

Years ago I had this problem, and I was able to solve it by
opening each bottle and dropping in a few grains of dry
yeast.  Should I try adding a little yeast?  Sugar?  Or just
RDWHAHB?

Private e-mail is fine.

TIA
       .:.
      :.:.
    /|~~~~|
   (_| D  |
     |  B |   Ron Moucka, Brewmaster
     `----'   DayBar Brewing, Ltd.
  "It's not so much an indication of our legal structure
   as it is a reflection of our abilities."

rmoucka at omn.com

           This message created on OMN BBS (303) 667-1149 data

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 11 Nov 1994 13:50:35 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Timothy P. Laatsch <LAATSCH at kbs.msu.edu>" <LAATSCH at kbs.msu.edu>
Subject: High-temp lager yeasts?

Hello again,

Just a quick question:

Can anyone suggest a Wyeast lager strain that works well in the ale 
temperature range at about 60-65 F?

Thanks!

Bones
===================
laatsch at kbs.msu.edu


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 11 Nov 1994 14:05:17 -0500 (EST)
From: MYETTE at delphi.com
Subject: Oxygenation Problems

I have read that the tinny flavor associated with homebrewing is cause partly
because of the beer getting oxygenated during bottling. 

Is this true???

And I have read that using "Ascorbic Acid" can help reduce this effect.

Is that true too?  And if so how does one use Ascorbic Acid and in what
amounts and when? 

Ann

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 11 Nov 1994 14:17:56 -500 (EST)
From: "Warren G. Schaibbe" <wschaibb at eagle.lhup.edu>
Subject: Trouble in Paradise

I would like to take this opportunity to thank this forum and its
contributors for some information that was passed along to me, and to ask
for some brewing advice.

First, Thanks again to everyone who replyed to my request for mail order
information regarding suppliers.  I have contacted all those places and
have summerize their services.  I also recieved an electronic catalog. 
E-mail me and I will send them along to you.

Secondly, I am having two major problems with my brewing endevors.  I
moved from Fl to Pa, and thought that my mashing problems were over, as
our water in Fl was very hard and alkaline, whereas my water here is very
soft and neutral.  WELL, it just seems that I have traded problems:  Now
my yeast gets stuck, and even worse, my beer has developed a nauseating
sour aroma.

I ferment in a closet, where it is not practical to plug in a heater.  The
average temp is around 65, and I have been using a starter.  The yeast in
question has been Wyeast London and British.  The aroma occured while in
the secondary fermenter.  I this case, after two weeks, I racked a 1.055
og wort and at racking it was 1.042.  It seemed active (the yeast), but
not overly so.  At the time that I re-pitched, (again from a starter), I
noticed the smell.  This fermentation is behaving as the first one did.  I
would welcome ANY comments about this situation.

I havent changed my brewing practices, and this is the first time that it
has happened.  I used dry yeast once since I moved, and it seemed to
ferment normally.

One last question, there is a substance called 'B-Bright'  Someone told me
that it is a good sanitiser, but the label says nothing about sanitizing,
just cleaning.  Any comments about this stuff?

Thanks in advance,

  Warren G. Schnibbe					
  wschaibb at eagle.lhup.edu				 

  "If men and women alternated giving birth, there would be no more than
  three children in any one family."

  Mark Twain

    



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 11 Nov 94 15:12:53 EST
From: uswlsrap at ibmmail.com
Subject: Chuck and coriander                                              

- -------------------- Mail Item Text Follows ------------------

To: I1010141--IBMMAIL

From: Bob Paolino, Research Analyst
Subject: Chuck and coriander

Hmmmm.... You get the idea that Chuck Cox was quizzing us.

Uh, Alex, What is Coriander?  (dingdingdingdingding)

Bob Paolino / Disoriented in Badgerspace

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 11 Nov 1994 13:59:39 -0800 (PST)
From: Domenick Venezia <venezia at zgi.com>
Subject: Iodine test / Too hot mash

We all know about the iodine starch test.  Now starch consists of long
chains of 1-4 linked glucose (amyloses).  Some of these chains are
branched by 1-6 links (amylopectin). 

So you hit a solution of such starches with iodine and it turns black.
Why?  What are we actually detecting here?

The amylases chop up these long 1-4 linked glucose chains (alpha) and
produce free glucose from the ends (beta).  In addition another enzyme
(the name escapes me) breaks the 1-6 branching chains off creating
straight chains for the amylases to chomp on. 

After "complete conversion" we do the iodine test again and it is negative.
Why?  If we do a long low temp mash I can understand it as all of the
glucose polymers have been chopped into mono, di, and trimers, but with
a short high temp mash we still have a lot of dextrins which are higher
order glucose polymers.  

I guess there are a couple questions here:  

1) at what length does glucose polymer stop being a dextrin and become
   starch?  

2) what exactly is reacting with the iodine? 

This was brought to mind by Jon Petty's post asking what to do with his
5 gallons of unfermentable dextrins from a too hot mash.  I would suggest
adding amylase to the wort - I think wine makers use it - but I don't
know any details about its use such as temp and amount.  Also, Jon, what
was your original and final SG?  And how hot was too hot?

Domenick Venezia
ZymoGenetics, Inc.
Seattle, WA
venezia at zgi.com




Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 11 Nov 1994 18:20:52 +0800
From: bjones at bdt.com (Bob Jones)
Subject: Counter pressure bottling

>What is the general net wisdom about the proper pressure for counter
>pressure bottling?  I bottled a recent batch at the same pressure as the
>kegs and they turned out a little on the flat side.  Is there a formula for
>a certain amount of pressure over the keg pressure, to bottle at?
>
>Harry Covert
>

The secret to succesfull CP filling is to get the beer as cold as possible,
the bottle to be filled as cold as possible and then pressure the keg to
about 3-5 psi greater than the original keg pressure. Now don't just blast
the beer into the bottle. You have to run it in slowly to insure the beer is
indeed under counterpressure. The pressure in the bottle rises as the liquid
level rises, so you must continually bleed off pressure to keep the beer
flow into the bottle. Just do the bleeding slowly. It helps to have a good
CP filler too.

Bob Jones
bjones at bdt.com



Return to table of contents


Date: 11 Nov 94 21:37:49 EST
From: "KEVIN A. KUTSKILL" <75233.500 at compuserve.com>
Subject: IN SEARCH OF......

I RECENTLY BREWED THE BEST TASTING MASH-EXTRACT RECIPE I'VE EVER HAD-- AND NOW I
CAN'T FIND ONE OF THE INGREDIENTS!  IT WAS ONE OF THOSE
SPUR-OF-THE-MOMENT-JUST-GRAB-ANYTHING-OFF-THE-SHELF RECIPES, BUT IT TASTES
GREAT.  HERE IT IS:

1/2 # 80L CRYSTAL MALT
1 CAN JOHN BARLEYCORNS CANADA LAGER MALT EXTRACT (3.3#)
1 CAN PREMIER AMERICAN RICE BREW KIT (3.3#)
1 CAN SUN COUNTRY PALE MALT KICKER (1.4#)

BITTERING HOPS:  1/3 OZ. FRESH GERMAN HALLERTAU HERSBRUCKER HOPS (3.6%)
FLAVORING HOPS:  1/3 OZ. FRESH GERMAN HALLERTAU HERSBRUCKER HOPS (3.6%)
FINISHING HOPS:  1/3 OZ. FRESH GERMAN HALLERTAU HERSBRUCKER HOPS (3.6%)

YEAST:  1 PKG PILSNER LAGER LIQUID YEAST (WYEAST)

BREWERS SPECIFICS:  RAISED 1 1/2 GALLONS OF WATER AND CRYSTAL MALT TO BOIL,
STRAINED OFF GRAINS AND ADDED MALT EXTRACTS, KICKER,  AND BITTERING HOPS.
BOILED FOR 60 MINUTES, ADDING FLAVORING HOPS TO LAST 10 MINUTES OF BOIL, AND
FINISHING HOPS TO LAST MINUTE OF BOIL.  SPARGED INTO COLD WATER TO MAKE 5
GALLONS.  FIRST STAGE AT BASEMENT TEMP., TRANSFERRED TO SECONDARY AND LAGERED ON
6/27/94  at  42 DEGREES F.  FOR ONE MONTH.  KEGGED AND FORCE CARBONATED.

ORIGINAL GRAVITY: 1.056

TERMINAL GRAVITY: 1.016

IT TASTES LIKE A HOPPIER, FULLER BODIED KILLIAN'S RED--I COULDN'T SERVE IT FAST
ENOUGH AT A PARTY I HAD!  NOW I CANT FIND THE JOHN BARLEYCORNS CANADA LAGER MALT
EXTRACT.  IF YOU KNOW A BREW STORE THAT CARRIES IT--PLEASE E-MAIL ME.

TIA,

KEVIN KUTSKILL
75233.500 at COMPUSERVE.C0M


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 11 Nov 94 09:57 EST
From: Harry Covert <0007059940 at mcimail.com>
Subject: Wyeast Bavarian Weizen

I have just completed primary fermentation on a Cranberry Wheat beer using
Wyeast Bavarian Weizen yeast, which I believe is actually two yeasts.  I
would like to plate it out and reuse it, but I'm not sure if this would be
possible since there are two yeast strains.  Since this is a fruit beer I
don't think that saving the dregs is an option, since I will probably use it
next in a regular Weizen.  Could I plate this out, and since I use baby food
jars, use the platesat both strains will be there.

Harry Covert


Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 12 Nov 94 01:25:31 EST
From: djfitzg at VNET.IBM.COM
Subject: HSA

 Greetings all,
 Could someone please enlighten me on some of the consequences of
HSA(hot-side aeration). I know that there are times that I am guilty of
splashing hot wort from my sparge to the boiling pot, and I'm just curious as
to how HSA will affect the finished beer quality.

as usual thanks for the advice,
djfitzg at vnet.ibm.com
Dan Fitzgerald

Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 12 Nov 1994 06:02:48 -0600 (CST)
From: "Robert W. Mech" <rwmech at eagle.ais.net>
Subject: Best Location for  a brewery = ??????

> I'm in the awesome position, if things go as planned, of needing to
> choose a location for a small brewery. Production will be about
> 2000 barrels/year. My question to all you knowledgable beer-drinkers,
> brewers, and supporters out there in net-land. Where would YOU do it?
> 
> Everybody will have different ideas of the right place. Personally,
> I enjoy mountains, and the laid back attitudes of the west. But Portland
> (where I spent four years of college) is swamped with excellent micros
> already, as is much of the west coast. We want to avoid big cities, as
> they'll have higher costs and more regulations/taxes/red-tape. So 
> we're thinking along the lines of a mid-sized city with perhaps only
> small micro competition. 
> 

Personaly, id choose the chicagoland area.  Why?  Because ive found only 
about 4 Brewpubs in the area.  The Major Being Goose Island Brewery.  So 
aside from that there is VERY little.  I live here, and well, id love to 
see a few more pop up.  If I had to choose a SPECIFIC location in 
chiagoland, id Shoot for something north of schaumburg.  Schaumbug is 
sprouting businesses like crazy, and is fastly becomming another 
chicago.  However, just north of it you have alot of open land, farmland, 
most of which is going rather cheaply.  Its also not very far from 
schaumburg, and still local to chicago.  I think that alot of money would 
be had to opening a Brewery/Brewpub in that area.  People out here look 
for things to do, and in the winter months, a brewery with good brew and 
maybe even a resturant would DEFINATLY pull in the people.  There are 
several radio stations out here that advertise beer CONSISTANTLY.  If you 
have the budget, and the willpower, I really think chicago could pull in 
ALOT of cash for a new brewery.  Not to mention Id here something other 
than Jim Koch on the radio bragging about Sam Adams Family Beer :-)

Well now that Ive bragged about my city long enough...

Just my $.02

Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 12 Nov 1994 08:35:47 -0800 (PST)
From: Domenick Venezia <venezia at zgi.com>
Subject: Adding water

- ------------------------------

> mmurphy at efn.org (Michael Murphy) wrote in #1577

> I got about a 1062. So, I have a concentrated wort that is just starting
> to ferment. Would it be smart to try to lower the gravity now, or later
> when I bottle. 

At first blush my answer was "it doesn't matter", but after a bit of 
thought I think that sometimes it does matter.  If you are adjusting your
OG slightly, like adjusting 1.058 to 1.050, it probably doesn't matter.
But if your starting OG is really high, like 1.080 or 1.100, then it probably
does matter.  My intuition says that fermenting 1.100 down to 1.030 then
diluting to 1.015 will yield much different results than diluting the OG
from 1.100 to 1.060 and letting if ferment down to 1.015 itself.  As I have
only made small adjustments in OG this is only a hunch.  Comments?  Real
experience?

Domenick Venezia
ZymoGenetics, Inc.
Seattle, WA
venezia at zgi.com



Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 12 Nov 1994 12:21:47 +0001 (EST)
From: Matthew Sendbuehler <sendbu at mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca>
Subject: Three testimonials: PET bottles, coriander, yeast


In response to recent discussions, I'd like to add a few
data points:

PET bottles: I've been using them for years, and they're
great.  They rarely have to be retired; I've seen some
develop a web of tiny cracks, and wouldn't trust these,
but otherwise they work fine.  As Aaron Dionne notes,
you can easily gauge carbonation levels without having
to open one.  Clear ones seem fine too, just make sure
you store them in the dark. Best yet, re-useable caps are
available, or at least they are here.  The caps that don't
separate into two pieces on opening can be re-used
indefinitely AFAIK; they reside in a chlorine-based
sanitizing solution between uses.  

I've never had an explosion such as Aaron did, but it
must have been some *very* highly carbonated beer, or a
damaged bottle.  My experience has always been that these
bottles can withstand great pressures for long periods.

This brings me to the biggest problem with PETs, IMHO:
when the beer is highly carbonated, the cap can be
*very* difficult to remove. You may have to chill a beer
that you don't want to chill.

I've never experienced plastic flavors, even after repeated
use or long storage. Be sure to rinse thoroughly immediately
after use.

Coriander: used it for flavor in an extract-based wheat beer,
and the stuff experiences *no* chill haze, while lees tend
to stay firmly clustered at the bottom of the bottle, even after
agitation or short-distance travel. (I don't know if this
last part is thanks to the coriander or the yeast...) 

Yeast: The following goes to the general discussion on yeast 
culturing: it's easy, and I found this a fun and rewarding 
experiment for a yeast-newbie such as myself. It's also a plug 
for a specific brew and its yeast (standard disclaimers apply).

Maudite is a Quebec micro-brewed Belgian-style strong
ale, which has a distinctive yeasty-spicy flavor.  Pitched
bottle dregs (from a 750 ml bottle) to an ordinary starter 
wort.  After about 36 hours, there was a good inch of 
krauesen.  When it died down a couple of days later, I corked 
the bottle (champagne-style, but without wire).  It sat in the 
fridge for about a week, before being pitched to an extract-based 
stout. (We had some good laughs as the stuff warmed to room
temperature and the cork which sat loosely in the neck of the 
bottle kept flying out every couple of minutes -- luckily not 
into the boiling wort on the stove. There was no shaking 
involved, thanks.)

This was a batch split between this yeast and generic 
dry ale yeast, and the Maudite (trans: Damn!) yeast IMHO 
elevated the brew from ordinary to delicious.  Get your hands 
on a bottle if you can, and don't be afraid to try growing 
the lees into a starter; if you don't notice any off odours, 
go for it.  Should be good for OGs up to 1.080 or more,
considering that Maudite is 9% alcohol.

Cheers,

Matt Sendbuehler 
Hamilton, Ont.
sendbu at mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca


Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 12 Nov 94 13:34 EST
From: Harry Covert <0007059940 at mcimail.com>
Subject: When to stop sparging

I was wondering what the general consensus is on how to tell when to stop
the sparge.  I have seen reference to both measuring the PH and specific
gravity, but I'm unsure of the exact procedure.

Harry Covert


Return to table of contents


Date: 12 Nov 94 15:36:58 EST
From: "Mark A. Melton" <75452.277 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Saving yeast

Robt.:
I just read HBD 1574 with your request for simple methods of saving yeast. I
have kept 4 cultures going for most of 1994 with 6 one-litre bottles, a
two-chamber bubbler with drilled rubber stopper, a bottle of iodophore solution
and misc. cling plastic wrap and rubber bands. I use them in rotation so that no
one goes more than 3 months without being used and replenished.

First you do need space in your fridge, or a spare fridge (I have one in my
darkroom for film and photo paper, but any old fridge will do). The reason is
that if you merely boil your wort it will not be completely sterile and keeping
it in cold storage will reduce the chance that some wild spore will start
growing. 

Make two or three litres (what ever you can handle easily) of weak wort (under
1.040) and boil, with about 1/2 oz of hop pellets for at least 15 minutes.
Immediately pour this into the litre bottles so they are 3/4ths full, and screw
on the caps tightly. Turn the bottles upside down to help sanitize the cap and
upper part of the bottle. When cool store in fridge. The hops should be strong
to further reduce the chance of a wild fermentation.

Start a pop-packet of liquid yeast; this can be done earlier, of course. 
When puffed up and tight, sterilize a corner with iodophore, cut it and
carefully pour into one of the bottles of sterile wort. Sterilize the bubbler
with iodophore, put some weak iodophore solution in the bubbler and jam this
into the neck of the bottle. Keep in a warm place until bubbling is fierce --24
hours or more.

Use this starter to start your beer, but leave about half a cup in the bottle.
Open another bottle of sterile wort and fill the first bottle up to the same
level as before, then replace the bubbler with new, dilute iodophore. Pour any
remaining sterile wort into your beer; it might not be sterile after this!

The new starter will take a day or less to return to the fierce bubbling stage.
Now, place the bottle into the fridge and cool it down. When activity ceases
cover with a double thickness of plastic wrap with a rubber band around the
neck. This will keep at least 3 months without further feeding if kept in the
fridge continuously. 

When you make your next batch, bring the bottle out, put the sterilized bubbler
in it and allow it to resume fermenting; This will take 6-8 hours, about long
enough to make an all-grain batch of beer. 

Continue with this procedure, but to be safe make another, spare starter and
keep it in the fridge also in case the first one gets contaminated. 
I have only used this on ale yeasts; I cannot vouch for lager yeasts which may
have other idiosyncracies. 
Mark A. Melton.
   


Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 12 Nov 1994 17:20:49 -0500
From: DONBREW at aol.com
Subject: iodine taste

  I made an imperial stout for my Xmas brew, O.G. 1.085, a little bit of
everything in it plus orange zest ,coriander and ginger.  After about 45 days
in the bottle I tried one,  tasted great until I forced the S.O. to taste it,
"Iodine!" she exclaimed.  Now, all I can taste is iodine, way more than can
be accounted for by iodophor or anything else with iodine in it.  Does
anybody have any idea what caused this taste, will time heal it?
   Too bad she mentioned it, I thought it tasted really great until the word
was implanted.
 
TIA,
Don
Falls Church, Va.
Donbrew at aol.com


Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 12 Nov 1994 17:38:38 -0500
From: BrewerLee at aol.com
Subject: Yeasties Beasties?

Hello all.  

Just sitting around today and I had nothing to bitch about and nothing to
brew.  I spent the afternoon helping out at the HB shop and noticed these
pamphlets that came from one of the distributors (I don't know which).  It
was pretty interesting so I thought I'd share with all of you (I know, what a
guy! :)).

SOLUTION OF THE SECRET OF ALCOHOLIC FERMENTATION
by Freidrich Woehner and Justus von Liebig
Published in the Annals of Chemistry, Volume 29, 1839

Beer yeast, when dispersed in water, breaks down into an infinite number of
small spheres.  If these spheres are transferred to an aqueous solution of
sugar they develop into small animals.  They are endowed with a sort of
suction trunk with which they gulp up the sugar from the solution.  Digestion
is immediately and clearly recognized because of the discharge of excrements.
 These animals evacuate ethyl alcohol from their bowels and carbon dioxide
from their urinary organs.  Thus one can observe how a specifically lighter
fluid is exuded from the anus and rises vertically whereas a stream of carbon
dioxide is ejected at very short intervals from their enormously large
genitals.


 -Lee C. Bussy
 Wichita, Kansas
 BrewerLee at aol.com

November 12, 1994
4:37 pm


Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 12 Nov 1994 15:38:24 -0800 (PST)
From: Blake Kincaid <blakek at nethost.multnomah.lib.or.us>
Subject: 

	Dearest of brew-fiends, as a homebrewer of many years I am most 
interested in any info, or info on info, you might be kind enough to 
shoot my way.  
	Keep it frosty,
	    		Blake, brewer of SLOTH INDUSTRIAL STOUT















  c d





Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 12 Nov 1994 15:53:03 -0800 (PST)
From: Blake Kincaid <blakek at nethost.multnomah.lib.or.us>
Subject: 

cancel article Nov12,16:39,8438




Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 12 Nov 1994 18:56:23 EST
From: Bob Bessette <bessette at uicc.com>
Subject: New Bench Capper...

Fellow Brewers and Bottlers,

 I just bought a bench capper from my local home brew store and used it for 
the first time today. I thought it was so much easier than the butterfly 
version I had but I had one problem. When I capped the bottle I had to pull 
the bottle out of the crimping cup by twisting it out. I am hoping that over 
time the bottles won't stick to the crimping cap. Has anyone else out there 
had had this problem? In the directions it says to oil the inside of the 
crimping cup before using. I am concerned that this oil could get into the 
beer. Any ideas out there? TIA...

Bob Bessette (future all-grainer...)
bessette at uicc.com
Systems Analyst
Unitrode Integrated Circuits
Merrimack, NH 03087


Return to table of contents


Date:     Sat, 12 Nov 94 21:03:06 CST
From: "Charles S. Jackson" <sjackson at ftmcclln-amedd.army.mil>
Subject:  perpetual fermentation

my fellow brewers,

     I have a "leftover lager" in the secondary for over three weeks and it is
still putting a bubble through the airlock about every 10-15 minutes.  The
recipe was a modification of CP's Lunar lager in the TNCJOHB.  I was given a
3.3lb can of hopped amber LME, added 2 lbs of amber DME and some leftover hops
for good measure.  I was showing some friends "the ropes" and amid the
questions and confusion I failed to get an OG.  The current gravity is 1.012,
BUT after looking at the slowly bubbling airlock for the past 10 days, I
decided to peek at the brew.  It had been a rather anemic amber color
and extremely clear, but when I peeled away the wet towel I found the top
1" to have TNTC (medical - too numerous to count) little white specks.  They
were NOT there 7-10 days ago.  The beer tastes ok, sorta like budmilloors on a
short course of steroids.  My only fear in brewing, (after a broken carboy full
of beer and 5 gallons of boiling wort flowing over my feet) is bottle bombs.  I
*had* decided to just bottle it and see but these new, and uninvited, guests
have me a bit...concerned.  It has been my experience (vast 9 extract batches)
that after racking to the secondary that all fermentation (at least airlock
activity) ceased.  This one has been a renegade.

   So, what might the collective wit suggest?  As I doubt that there will be
general interest so e-mail is probably the best.  I will forward anything to
all interested.

Steve
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brewing beer is far more exciting when it is both a hobby AND a felony!
                                            The Alabama Outlaw

Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 12 Nov 94 21:17:46 EST
From: guyruth at abq-ros.com
Subject: Yeast Lab's European Lager (dry)


On a whim, I thought I'd try this on my latest batch of Vienna.  Instead
of rehydrating it I made a small culture (300 ml water with 2 tbs of
DME) and dropped in the dry yeast packet.  What I got a couple hours
later was a fairly good krausen, but some rather surprising volatiles.
To my brewing partner and I it smelled kind of floral and tasted
candy-like, neither of which I wanted in my Vienna.  What gives here?
Has anyone ever tried this yeast before with the same results?  Needless
to say, I did not use the yeast.  I think I'll stick to what's tried and
true, namely liquid yeast.  Private e-mail is okay.

Guy (guyruth at abq-ros.com)

Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 12 Nov 1994 23:24:24 -0500 (EST)
From: David Elm <delm at hookup.net>
Subject: Northern Moravia hops ?

	There is a recipe for a Belgian ale in Pierre Rajotte's 'Belgian
Ales' that specifies Northern Moravia aroma hops.  Can anyone provide me
with information for this variety.  I would like to either find a source
or a suitable subsitute.		Thank you


- -- 
    David Elm    delm at hookup.net    (416)-293-1568    fax: (416)-291-9540
     47 Chartland Blvd S,   Scarborough,   Ontario,   M1S 2R5,   Canada


Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 13 Nov 1994 11:06:25 -0500
From: CliffR3500 at aol.com
Subject: 15 gallon brew system

Hello All,

In my last few postings I have been hinting that I am expanding my brewery
from a 5 gallon RIMS system to a 15 gallon system. What I need is some
advice. This is the equipment that I have on hand besides everything that you
would use for the RIMS system (e.g. pump, water heater element, controls for
both), 2 used 1/2 barrel kegs, a 30 gallon SS pot for boiling, and a king
cooker. I have been considering some sort of tower system, of which there are
many plans availible. One keg would hold the sparge water, the other the
mash, and the big pot the boil.

I am trying to decide whether to expand the RIMS system to 15 gallons. The
problem with that is that the hot water heater element that I use won't pump
out enough heat to raise the mash from saccrification rest to mash out. To
solve this I would get another king cooker to heat the bottom of the keg. To
expand the RIMS would also mean that I would have to buy some sort of new
false bottom for the keg, which would cost me at least 50 bucks from what I
have seen. The advantages to expanding the system is that I would not have to
worry about scorching and stirring 25+ pounds of grain to raise the mash temp
to mash out. Right now my extraction rating is 30-32 depending on the grains
that I use. 

On the other hand I am thinking about making some sort of EasyMasher type
device to put in the bottom of the keg and heating the whole thing with
another king cooker. From previous postings, I have learned that you only
need recirculate about 2 cups to 1 quart of wort before it runs clear, which
would seem to eliminate the need for a nice pump to smoothly recirculate the
mash. It would also save me about 30 dollars from buying a false bottom, and
seems easy enough to take apart to clean the whole thing. The problem would
be that I would have to stir the whole mash when I was heating to avoid
scorching and to heat the mash evenly.

What to do? Right now I am making some really good beer and I don't want to
compromise that, the above decison seems to be some sort of a trade off. What
do brewers with experience in these types of brewing systems think? What are
the pros and cons? What have I not thought of?

I was also wondering if anyone out there knew what parts I would need to
transform my sparge water keg into a hot water heater that I could set on 170
degrees and leave it on its own to heat to the right temp. and stay there. 

Thanks for the help! 

Cliff
CliffR3500 at aol.com

Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 13 Nov 1994 15:58:59 -0500 (EST)
From: "Jeffrey W. Van Deusen" <VANDEUSEN001 at WCSUB.CTSTATEU.EDU>
Subject: Oregano beer!!! ???



   Hey Folks,

  Call me crazy, but I'm interested in brewing a lightly hopped ale with
a slight, but definite oregano flavor. I guess this is similar to recent
posts on "pizza beer", or the other recipe which mentioned basil...

  My tentative recipe:

     2 cans M&F light, unhopped extract
     1/2 lb. Crystal Malt (steeped for 20 min. before boil)
     1 oz. Cascade (5.6% alpha; added at start of 60 min boil)
     1 oz. oregano (1/2 at start of boil, 1/2 at 50 min)
     1/2 oz. Saaz (at 50 min into the boil)

   Does this sound reasonable? Any suggestions or alterations? Has anyone
ever used oregano successfully in a brew before? Thanks in advance for any
help! Private email or post here is fine.

                                      Jeffrey Van Deusen
                              vandeusen001 at wcsub.ctstateu.edu

p.s. A friend and I kegged up a 15 gallon batch of the Mocha Java Stout
recently...tastes AWESOME, even after only 3 weeks! Chocohaulics and java
lovers unite! A highly recommended recipe...


Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 13 Nov 94 14:17:50 MST
From: Jeff Benjamin <benji at hpfcbug.fc.hp.com>
Subject: TSP wall cleaner

Tony Verhulst mentioned that TSP is used as a wall cleaner, and as such
is available at paint and hardware stores.  In Miller's "Brewing the
World's Great Beers", he writes, "Trisodium phosphate (TSP), available
at paint stores, is good for heavy-duty cleaning."

I picked up a small container this weekend at Builder's Square.  It's
DAP brand TSP Wall Cleaner.  I could not find a breakdown of the
ingredients, but the label says, "Warning:  contains sodium sulfate,
sodium sesquicarbonate and trisodium phosphate."

Do any of our chemist comrades have comments about the first two
compounds?  It seems like this stuff would be a great, cheap source of
cleaner if the non-TSP ingredients are safe.  

[Note for TSP tyros:  TSP is *not* a *sanitizer*, only a cleaner for
getting the grunge off your carboys and kegs; you would want to rinse
thoroughly after using TSP and then use a chlorine or iodine-based
sanitizer before brewing.]

- --
Jeff Benjamin                               benji at fc.hp.com
Hewlett Packard Co.                         Fort Collins, Colorado	
"Midnight shakes the memory as a madman shakes a dead geranium."
					    - T.S. Eliot

Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 13 Nov 1994 18:59:06 -0500 (EST)
From: "NAME SEAN O'KEEFE, IFAS FOOD SCIENCE" <SFO at gnv.ifas.ufl.edu>
Subject: Encore acronyms

A few acronyms were were omitted from previous discussions that are
somewhat important to many brewers:  SSS and DSS.  The origin of DSS is
of course SSS, which is Stupid Spouse Syndrom.  You know the symptoms.
Dropped carboys, spillovers, triple bock on the new sofa.  The other
acronym, DSS, would therefore be Distressed Spouse Syndrom.  This is usually
the result of SSS but can originate if your spouse comes along with you as
you purchase 100# of malt, several # of hops, yeast, etc etc for a 6 month
supply trip.  "A hundred and twenty dollars for that, are you nuts?".
Clearly a case of DSS.  Now, a homebrewer discussing a spillover can also
mention possible outcomes of DSS.  Cheers and DSS-free brewing.

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 14 Nov 94 11:29:39 +1000
From: ANDY WALSH <awalsh at ozemail.com.au>
Subject: yeast storage and other stuff

First: a question.
The Coopers kits have very unusual instructions. I shall quote a little:

"Common faults
2. Lack of head - Some of the froth has been lost prior to bottling e.g. either 
through the air-lock of the fermenter, through skimming (do not skim head) or 
through froth lost during bottling."

This is the only place I have ever heard of this concept (ie. that the krausen 
during fermentation contributes to the head in your glass!). Has anyone heard 
of this elsewhere? Does this statement have any validity or is it a load of 
c&*%?
**
Lee Bussy wonders whether he should prime his barley wine. I wonder about this 
too as I also have a barley wine to be bottled soon. My experience with strong 
Belgians (1080 and higher) says "No don't prime", but surely it would depend on 
how long it has been in the secondary. eg. if it has been sitting in the 
secondary for 6 months then prime, 1 month don't prime. Maybe it is better to 
leave for 6 months and then prime in order to get a more consistent product. 
Then again, if you add fresh yeast when bottling maybe you should not prime as 
the fresh yeast will be more able to ferment residual sugars. If you use a 
different yeast (more attenuating) you can get glass bombs BTW; this has 
happened to me before. Any suggestions? 
**
Rich Larsen posted recently about glass and yeast bombs arising from bottling 
and capping yeast from the primary and storing them in the fridge. I also do 
this, but have no problems with bombs, as I use yeast from the secondary at 
bottling time. If I am bottling the beer with added sugar then it is surely 
safe to bottle yeast with no extra sugar. Using the secondary also means you 
are not bottling excessive trub. The yeast FAQ mentions this technique. It 
saves the hassle of yeast washing.
**
I have also taken recently to making slightly more wort than will fit in my 
fermenter when I brew. The excess goes into bottles, is capped, then stored in 
the fridge. I use this wort for yeast starters at a later date. So these days 
my fridge contains a mix of bottles of beer, wort and yeast, all in identical 
bottles.
I ran into trouble the other day when I grabbed what I thought was a bottle of 
pilsener for our club's weekly tasting. I was in a bit of a rush, so I just 
grabbed a bottle from the "pilsener shelf". Imagine my dismay when the pouring 
person poured out barley-wine wort. Quite a few tasted it before I noticed too. 
("It's a bit dark for a pilsener" - "Gee it's flat!" - "It's sweet" - "It's not 
fermented!"). Oh the shame! I'll never live it down. Later in the evening we 
tasted an obviously infected beer. 
One wit said,
"Oh it's not too bad, I've tasted wort!"
Needless to say I carefully label my bottles now.

Andy W.








Return to table of contents

End of HOMEBREW Digest #1578, 11/14/94