FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
                Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Strainers (The Unstoppable Drew)
  "Sparging" (Ed Hitchcock)
  Octoberfest (Derek Duval)
  Fruit and Holiday beers (Ed Hitchcock)
  Hard Water (RKIRCHMEYER)
  Washing Bottles in the Dishwasher (Willits)
  pH meters revisited (Diane S. Put)
  Diacetyl rests ("Lee A. Menegoni")
  Court Ordered Liquidation - Computer Memory - CPU's & Disk Drives (LIONEL GOLDBERG)
  ring around the collar / oak chips / bottle washing (uswlsrap)
  virus, ph testr (Jay Weissler)
  Wort Guard from William's Brewing (John Glaser)
  extended mash questions (Richard B. Webb) 
  Sparging / Isomerization (npyle)
  Dishwasher Cleaning ("Soller, Peter J., Civ")
  "Good Times Lambic?" (Kelly Jones)
  Re: your mail (Rich Larsen)
  RE: excessive tannins/winter yeast suggestion warning/O2 free ("McGaughey, Nial")
  Need help for an experiment (David Draper)
  HSA - 6 of 1, Half Dozen of Other ("Palmer.John")
  aquarium heaters (ANDY WALSH)
  Definition of sparge (DOUGWEISER)
  First all-grain, help! + hints to others (Robert Parker)
  5L kegs / Sanitation by heat (Rich Lenihan)
  Wyeast strains/Technical posts/YeastEatingAlcohol/skunkySS/Tannins (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Tue, 13 Dec 94 09:58:22 EST
From: The Unstoppable Drew <andrew.marold at analog.com>
Subject: Strainers

==> Michael Minter asks about strainers:

>Question. What types of strainers are prefered for straining chilled
>wort into a primary? During my last batch I tried using a large funnel
>that came with a strainer insert and the damn thing clogged after
>the first pint or so of liquid had passed through. This doesn't seem
>very practical.

>Any thoughts?

> -Michael

I have a strainer thingie that has an elastic hemmed in it, and it
goes over the top of your fermenting bucket like a hair net.  Works
great for dumping the wort into the fermenter.  Much more surface area
than the disk in a funnel.  I've just bought a 7 gal carboy, and when
I brew my next batch tonight, I was going to put the strainer over the
top of my funnel, plus use the disk inside for a 2 level strain.
This will also allow me to remove & de-sludge to net strainer without
risking stuff falling in.  I'll post again with results of this
experiment tomorrow.

- --
Andrew E. Marold - andrew.marold at analog.com
Software engineer, racer, climber, homebrewer, nice guy in general.
I don't speak for Analog and they don't fix my cars, pick my
routes or drink my beer.  PGP 2.6 key available on request.

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Date: Tue, 13 Dec 1994 11:17:28 -0400 (AST)
From: Ed Hitchcock <ehitchcock at sparc.uccb.ns.ca>
Subject: "Sparging"


Lee Kirkpatrick wonders about the term "Sparging"
        Sparging means rinsing.  One can sparge the grains during the
lautering process, or one can sparge the hops to rinse them clean of
wort.  So you were both wrong.  Pouring wort through a strainer is not
sparging, though pouring hot water through the hops in the strainer is.
The term sparging is often synonomized with lautering, but in reality
sparging is only part of the lautering process.
        ed

   ----------------
Ed Hitchcock, now on the right side of the student/staff division
ehitchcock at sparc.uccb.ns.ca



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Date: Tue, 13 Dec 1994 10:21:20 -0500 (EST)
From: dduval at pobox.upenn.edu (Derek Duval)
Subject: Octoberfest

Hello this is my first posting!

A friend and I are trying to find a recipe for something like Sam Adams
(tm) Octoberfest.  Any ideas?

Derek Duval
dduval at pobox.upenn.edu

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Date: Tue, 13 Dec 1994 11:23:52 -0400 (AST)
From: Ed Hitchcock <ehitchcock at sparc.uccb.ns.ca>
Subject: Fruit and Holiday beers

        All this talk of fruit and holiday beers has me wondering in
anyone has included fruit in the mash?  One problem with adding fruit is
the pectin it contributes, especially if added at the end of the boil
(which may be done to prevent the infection that could occur if th efruit
is added to the fermenter...).  If fruit is mixed in with the mash and a
long protein rest is performed, is the pectin degraded?  (In case you have
concerns about how boiling will affect the fruit flavour, I am thinking
about cranberries which are often boiled prior to consumption.)  So, has
anyone done a fruit mash?
        ed

   ----------------
Ed Hitchcock, now on the right side of the student/staff division
ehitchcock at sparc.uccb.ns.ca


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Date: Tue, 13 Dec 1994 09:05:10 -0500
From: RKIRCHMEYER at MVCC.EDU
Subject: Hard Water


I'm going to make my first batch over the holdays. Our
(well) water is very "hard" - it has a lot of calcium.
Is there anything special I have to do to the water
before I use it to make beer ?

            Dick Kirchmeyer

            Internet = rkirchmeyer at mvcc.edu

            Bitnet = rkirchmeyer at snymvcc




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Date: Tue, 13 Dec 1994 07:57:03 -0800 (PST)
From: Willits <willits at camelot.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Washing Bottles in the Dishwasher

>Date: Sat, 10 Dec 1994 22:03:51 -0800 (PST)
>From: "Rebecca S. Myers" <rmyers at netcom.com>
>Subject: Chief Petty Bottlewasher
>
>
>Phil Miller comments on marking caps instead of labeling: "This way
>I do not have to keep taking off those messy labels, and can wash
>some bottles in the dishwasher."
>
>Does the dishwasher *really* work in washing out the bottles? I know
>some of you will say, sure, it heat sterilizes them, too. But, having to
>deal with a couple of lazy parents who return bottles unwashed, I'd like
>to know if this method works, or if I still must employ my four-step
>method of, soap soak, scrub, rinse, bleach soak.

Becky,

        I have been using the dishwasher to sanitize bottles for years.
However, the dishwashers I have had (in apartments) during this time
would not really do a good job of cleaning bottles with caked on yeast
sediment.  You may want to try a few in yours to see if your dishwasher
works better.  Once you get them clean, the dishwasher will do a fine job
of sanitization for bottling.

Mike Willits
willits at camelot.stanford.edu

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Date: Tue, 13 Dec 94 07:57:49 PST
From: diput at eis.calstate.edu (Diane S. Put)
Subject: pH meters revisited

(From *Don* Put, the other person hiding behind his wife's moniker.  Hello,
Jeff)

>Jay Lonner wrote:

>Abrupt change of thought:  I just ordered a digital pH meter that may appeal 
to
>other gadget-heads.  It's called the pHTestr 3, and it's manufactured by
>Oakton (a trademark of Cole Parmer Instruments).

<pH meter specifications snipped>

I hope you have better luck with this Oaktron model than I had.  After having
two Oaktron pHTestr 2 meters, I've come to the conclusion that if it doesn't
have a replacable electrode, it's terminal from day one.  The first one I
bought, didn't work from the get-go, so I just went back to the store and
traded it in; no big deal.  The second one worked for about 5 batches (brewed
over a 6 month period--hey, I was finishing a degree and didn't have a whole
lot of spare time) before becoming wildly inaccurate due to electrode failure.
Yes, I followed the instructions as to how to store the electrode to no avail.
I've drawn some personal conclusions about meters:

1.)  Temperature compensation is uneccessary for home brewing because it only
     takes a few seconds to drop a sample to the same temperature as the
     calibration solution using an ice bath.  Hell, where I live, I just
     use a tap-water bath.

2.)  Meters with non-replacable electrodes are useless for the long haul.
     One caveat here:  They may last a fairly long time if you disregard
     Oaktron's instructions and fill the electrode cap with some electrode
     storage solution available from Cole-Parmer.  I haven't tried this; it's
     just a guess.

3.)  Buy a meter that accepts a BNC type connector so that you can replace
     the electrode when it gets tired.  Another benefit to this is that the
     quality of a separate electrode seems to be of much higher quality than
     the built-in ones.

4.)  Keep the electrode in electrode storage solution between uses.


Here's my current system, recommended by Steve Dempsey (steved at longs.lance.
colostate.edu) that I'm very happy with.  I purchased it from
Cole-Parmer (800) 323-4340.  It consists of:

AY-59000-40 pH Tester, BNC (BNC is the connector for the electrode) $49.50
G-05992-20 General purpose BNC electrode with 3' lead               $46.00
           (I bought a coiled lead; a straight lead is cheaper)
G-05990-90 Probe Saver Bottle                                       $ 5.00
G-05664-00 pH storage solution (highly recommended)                 $ 9.75
G-05977-12 pH calibration capsules, pH 4.0                          $ 6.50
G-05977-14 pH calibration capsules, pH 7.0                          $ 6.50

Now, I've seen the same meter and electrode at the Beverage People.  The
meter was $10.00 higher there, but the electrode was $10.00 cheaper.  Go
figure!  I know this seems like a lot for a meter, but, trust me, anything
cheaper won't last.  This meter will last a lifetime; however, you might
have to replace the electrode down the road a few years (if you keep it
in the storage solution, it may last a LONG time).  Also, this is not a
temp-compensated meter (see above).

Also, once you dial in your water for various styles, the meter really
becomes less important (unless, of course, your water varies over the year).

Bottom line:  Buy the best meter you can find in the price range you are
              wanting to stay within.  (Meters range from ~$30.00 - hundreds)
              All in all, I've spent about $140.00 on my meter, electrode,
              and peripherals.  It's a meter that will serve my needs for
              a long time.  I realize it's a lot of money for some folks,
              but you have to pay your dues to measure the pH of the ooze.


Hope this helps,

don (diput at eis.calstate.edu)







- ----------------------------------------------------------------------


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Date: Tue, 13 Dec 94 11:07:33 EST
From: "Lee A. Menegoni" <lmenegoni at nectech.com>
Subject: Diacetyl rests

Diacetyl rests are typically done after primary fermentation prior to the
lagering phase.  The diacetyl rest is done at the point when most of the
sugars have been fermented at that time the yeast will reduce the diacetyl
it created in the early stages of fermentation.  Since the rate of
reduction is temperature dependent 24-48 hours 5-10 F degrees above
fermentation temp will result in a dramatic reduction in diacetyl level.
One advantage to this is that it can reduce lagering time.

A good article on diacetyl creation and reduction appeared in Brewing
Techniques a year or so ago, it was by George Fix.  An interesting point
that he documented was how subsequent generations of certain yeast strains
are subject to creating more diacetyl than they can later reduce.  I have
indirectly heard from a noted author and brew pub operator that this
diminished diacetyl reduction effect may be due to under airaition
of wort.

Lee Menegoni


Lee Menegoni

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Date: Tue, 13 Dec 1994 07:23:51 -0800
From: actuary at ix.netcom.com (LIONEL GOLDBERG)
Subject: Court Ordered Liquidation - Computer Memory - CPU's & Disk Drives

Choice Trading Company, Court Appointed Liquidators, have
been assigned to liquidate the following Multi-Million Dollar
inventory of computer Memory Chips, CPU's and Hard Disk Drives.
All items are new and come with applicable manufactures warranty.
Prices quoted include all state and local taxes plus shipping and
handling.

Order                                                 Cost
Number   Mfg.       Description                      (EACH)

Memory

1524    Toshiba    30 Pin Simms 1x3     70ns  1 meg  $ 25.00
1525    Toshiba    30 Pin Simms 1x9     70ns  1 meg    25.00
1526    Toshiba    30 Pin Simms 4x9     70ns  4 meg   100.00

1527    Toshiba    30 Pin Simms 1x3     60ns  1 meg    26.00
1528    Toshiba    30 Pin Simms 1x9     60ns  1 meg    26.00
1529    Toshiba    30 Pin Simms 4x9     60ns  4 meg   106.00

1624    Toshiba    72 Pin Simms 512x36  70ns  2  meg   50.00
1625    Toshiba    72 Pin Simms 1x36    70ns  4  meg  100.00
1626    Toshiba    72 Pin Simms 2x36    70ns  8  meg  200.00
1627    Toshiba    72 Pin Simms 4x36    70ns  16 meg  400.00
1628    Toshiba    72 Pin Simms 8x36    70ns  32 meg  800.00

1624    Toshiba    72 Pin Simms 512x36  60ns  2  meg   52.00
1625    Toshiba    72 Pin Simms 1x36    60ns  4  meg  104.00
1626    Toshiba    72 Pin Simms 2x36    60ns  8  meg  208.00
1627    Toshiba    72 Pin Simms 4x36    60ns  16 meg  416.00
1628    Toshiba    72 Pin Simms 8x36    60ns  32 meg  832.00

Memory for the Macintosh

1122    Toshiba    1 meg x 8 Simm Module 70ns  1 meg   31.00
1123    Toshiba    2 meg x 8 Simm Module 70ns  2 meg   62.00
1124    Toshiba    4 meg x 8 Simm Module 70ns  4 meg  109.00

CPU's

1276    Intel      80486 DX/33                        115.00
1277    Intel      80486 DX/50                        188.00
1278    Intel      80486 DX-2/66                      156.00
1279    Intel      80486 DX-4/75                      358.00
1280    Intel      80486 DX-4/100                     498.00
1281    Intel      Pentium 80501-60                   366.00
1282    Intel      Pentium 80501-66                   453.00
1283    Intel      Pentium 80502-90                   558.00

Hard Disk Drives

Seagate Barracuda Drives
1351    Seagate    ST11950N 8ms  3.5" 1.69 GB SCSI    658.00
1352    Seagate    ST12550N 8ms  3.5" 2.1  GB SCSI    899.00
1353    Seagate    ST15150N 8ms  3.5" 4.2  GB SCSI  1,526.00
1354    Seagate    ST31200N 11ms 3.5" 1.05 GB SCSI    538.00
1355    Seagate    ST11900N  9ms 3.5" 1.7  GB SCSI    628.00
1366    Seagate    ST2400A   9ms 3.5" 2.1  GB SCSI    856.00
1367    Seagate    ST15230N  9ms 3.5" 4.29 GB SCSI  1,454.00
1368    Seagate    ST41080N 11ms 5.5" 9.08 GB SCSI  2,848.00

Western Digital
1366    Western    AC2340 12ms  3.5"  340  MB IDE     122.00
1367    Western    AC2420 12ms  3.5"  420  MB IDE     136.00
1368    Western    AC2540 12ms  3.5"  540  MB IDE     160.00
1369    Western    AC2700 12ms  3.5"  731  MB IDE     230.00

Conner
1372    Connor     CFS420A  14ms  3.5"  420  MB  IDE  138.00
1373    Connor     CFA540A  10ms  3.5"  540  MB  IDE  168.00
1374    Connor     CFA1080A 10ms  3.5"  1080 MB  IDE  408.00

ORDERING INFORMATION

To order please use a company order form/letterhead or if for
personal use, use a plain white sheet of paper with your return
address. List the items desired by order number, the quantity
and total cost.  Send your order with check or money order
payable to Choice Trading Company to:

Choice Trading Company
Order Processing  Lot #1776
86228 Terminal Annex
Los Angeles, Ca. 90086-0228

Orders are processed on a first come basis.  Adjustments and
refunds will be made immediately for items that have sold out.
Please allow 2 to 3 Weeks for shipping.  Due to court ordered
restrictions we are unable to accept COD, phone or credit card
orders.

This public offering is valid through December 30, 1994. Any
unsold inventories will be auctioned.  For auction information
please send a self addressed stamped enveloped to:

Choice Trading Company
Lot #1776
202 So. Broadway
Los Angeles, Ca. 90012
(213) 856 6172

If you are unable to use this information, please pass it on to
someone who may.

Lionel M. Goldberg
Actuary



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Date: Tue, 13 Dec 1994 11:31:51 EST
From: uswlsrap at ibmmail.com
Subject: ring around the collar / oak chips / bottle washing

- -------------------- Mail Item Text Follows ------------------

To: I1010141--IBMMAIL

From: Bob Paolino               Research Analyst
Subject: ring around the collar / oak chips / bottle washing

Chris Cooper asks about his ring around the collar:

It's not necessarily an infection.  Some spices, ingredients with oils, and
other additives have a tendency to float to the top and stick to the bottle at
that level.  I don't _know_ what you have, but I wonder if it might be from 
the
oak chips.

Speaking of oak chips....

Why do people use them?  From what I've read, the reason for which people use
them (in classic pale ales) has been pretty much discredited, that, yes, those
beers were aged in oak barrels, but it probably would have been considered a
defect if the beer had actually taken on very much of the flavour of the wood.
Certainly anything I've tasted/judged that had used oak chips was way overdone
for whatever character the brewer had hoped to achieve.It really isn't
pleasant, although it's possible that it could be nice if used _very_
sparingly.  Can anyone tell me/HBD about it?

Rebecca Myers asks about washing bottles in the dishwasher:

I run my empties with the dishes, but I make sure that I give them a good 
rinse
before loading them.  I certainly don't leave anything on the bottom, even if
the dishwasher _might_ be able to take care of it.  When I unload the dishes, 
I
store the bottles away where they can await being refreshed with the sacred
beverage.  Then on bottling day, the clean bottles go into the dishwasher all
by themselves for a sanitation run.  NO detergent this time, a bit of bleach
(it's probably redundant, but a nice security blanket), and the heat dry
setting.The dishwasher isn't going to relieve you from brushing out scummy
bottles (cleaning), but it is going to make bottling day (sanitising) a lot
more convenient--and effective--than soaking and rinsing bottles manually.

Now go have a beer,

Bob Paolino / Disoriented in Badgerspace /uswlsrap at ibmmail.com

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Date: Tue, 13 Dec 94 11:50:03 -0600
From: jay_weissler at il.us.swissbank.com (Jay Weissler)
Subject: virus, ph testr

You think that you can't spread a virus by email? Look at how many
machines ground to a halt with this hoax (not to mention the
bandwidth here).

Jay Lonner mentions a phTestr3 at about $90. This seems pretty
pricey. I've seen heat adjusting multi calibrated testers (including
something called a phTestr2) for about $65-70. Look at Great
Fermentations, LaMotte (testing equip/chemical company) 800-344-3100,
also any aquarium catalog company for possible good deals.
Admittedly, it's been a few months since I did this exercise, so my
prices may be stale and I don't know what the psTestr3 adds over the
2. It could be worth it.

jayw

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Date: Tue, 13 Dec 94 10:52:33 -0700
From: John Glaser <glaser at widlar.ece.arizona.edu>
Subject: Wort Guard from William's Brewing

Just a hint. The Wort Guard from William's brewing (lets you safely
blast CO2 wherever you desire) is no more that a "blowgun" or
"airgun" for compressed air use. I found mine at the local swap meet
for $3, with fittings. A new one can be had for $6 at Home Depot.
With the cost of fittings and hose, you should be able to have one
for <$10, not $20-$30.

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Date: Tue, 13 Dec 1994 10:16:20 -0800
From: Richard B. Webb <rbw1271 at appenine.ca.boeing.com>
Subject: extended mash questions

I have a question for the brewing chemistry gods here on the HBD. I understand
the process and the reasons for step mashing. But I would like to know the
effects of skipping a particular stage, as well as the effects of having a
particular stage continue too long. For instance, an acid rest at approx. 100F
is intended to create the optimum pH in the mash. If this rest is skipped,
perhaps the pH will be too high. If I extend this rest for too long, will the
resultant mash pH be too low? A protein rest at 122F is intended to break down
chains of soluable proteins. If I eliminate this step, I imagine that I'll get
chill haze, or evidence of protein. If this step is continued too long, do I
break down all of the proteins? I imagine this would affect mouth feel and 
head
retention. At saccharification temperatures, what would happen if the rest
went on too long? Surely the starch will be completely converted. Would more
fermentable sugars be made from the longer dextrins?

In a post from 18 August, George Fix has a tantilizing tidbit of information.
He writes:

>Note - I now feel (with Narziss) that the time spent in the
>    range 45-55C should be keep below 15 mins. if highly
>    modified malt is used.

A simple translation for the Centegrade impaired shows this recommendation
to avoid long rests at 110-130F if using highly modified malt. Reading
Randy Mosher's book (and others) leads one to believe that this rest is
necessary. Perhaps it's the 'if highly modified malt is used' that is the
out. Less well modified malt requires this rest.

But back to my original question. What if I leave the mash at these temps
too long? Any takers? What other mashes are used and why?

Waiting for enlightenment,
Rich Webb, Kent, WA USA

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Date: Tue, 13 Dec 94 11:39:06 MST
From: npyle at hp7013.ecae.StorTek.COM
Subject: Sparging / Isomerization

Andy Kligerman writes:

>Whats happened to Jack Schmedling lately?

Oh, he stops by once in a while to trash his competitors' products and grab
some more free press and then he's off to cranking out more mills, etc.

**

Lee Kirkpatrick writes:

>Incidentally, one brewer gently scolded me for using
>the term "sparging" to refer to the process of pouring the
>contents of my cookpot through a strainer (to remove hops, etc.)

I think this started with Charlie P.  I take sparging to mean rinsing wort
from grain.  It is a stretch, IMHO, to use it to mean rinsing wort from hops,
but a minor stretch.  I don't think you'll find concensus, but I would bet
the majority would be a little confused by "sparging" to remove hops.

**

Phil Gravel writes:

>Given that alpha acid isomerization is a chemical reaction, temperature will
>affect the rate at which it occurs.  Mechanical agitation, at least in the
>form of boiling, will have little effect on the rate of isomerization.  A
>full rolling boil, however, will ensure that the all parts of the wort are
>at the boiling point (the highest possible temperature).  At less than a
>full boil, parts of the wort might be at a temperature slightly lower than
>the boiling point and thus alpha acid isomerization would be less slower.

I think you're mixing the idea of chemicals freely floating in a liquid with
them being bound up in the flower of the hop plant.  The mechanical action of
the boil certainly helps to a great degree to burst lupulin glands and to
"shake" the alpha acids free from the plant itself.  Beyond that I would
say that the mechanical action adds little, but kinetic energy is still added
energy, which should in theory help along a chemical reaction.

>I do agree that alpha acid isomerization will occur while the hot wort sits
>waiting to be cooled.  It may not be as fast as when the wort is boiling,
>but it will occur nevertheless.

On this we agree.

Cheers,
Norm

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Date: Tue, 13 Dec 94 11:53:00 PST
From: "Soller, Peter J., Civ" <sollerpj at fafb.af.mil>
Subject: Dishwasher Cleaning


Becky Myers wrote about washing bottles in the dishwasher.  My experience in
this area is that the dishwasher does not clean all of the crud out of a
bottle that hasn't been rinsed.  It works well for clearing small amounts of
dried sediment, but not the really gross green stuff.  For that, get out the
brush.  I do use the dishwasher, but before loading the bottles up, I look
through the bottom to see what kind of dirt there is.  If no, or little
dirt, in they go, on Super Wash, Hi Temp, Heat Dry.


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Date: Tue, 13 Dec 1994 12:22:45 -0700
From: Kelly Jones <k-jones at ee.utah.edu>
Subject: "Good Times Lambic?"

Folks:

I'm writing this as a warning to others who may have had the
misfortune of recieving the so-called "Good Times" letter.  A week or
so ago, in preparation for brewing a batch of ale, I was using a
brewer's spreadsheet on my computer to design the recipe.  While I was
doing so, the computer beeped, indicating a mail message had come in.
I switched over to my mail program and read it (ain't multi-tasking
great?). Well, you guessed it, the message was named "Good Times", and
had an AOL return address.  Without thinking, I downloaded and read
the message, which looked like gobbledeygook to me.  I switched back
to the spreadsheet and finished the recipe, which I brewed that day.

Now, this beer has behaved quite differently in the fermenter. Small,
purplish-white flecks floated to the surface. I'm always quite careful
about sanitation, but I'm beginning to think this beer might be
infected. There's definitely something in here besides the ale yeast
which I pitched.

Having caught up on a few days worth of HBD, I realize now that that
"Good Times" message was probably a virus, and I never should have
read it.  So, what I'm wondering is, could the good times virus have
gotten into my brew, since I was working on the brewer's spreadsheet
at the same time I was reading mail?  Now, I'm no computer expert, nor
a virologist, but I do watch a lot of Sci-Fi, so I think I have a
pretty good grasp of what's technically feasible and what isn't. It
seems as though this "cross-platform" infection is probably what
happened.

BTW, the brew is not half bad, in fact, I'd say it tastes "DY - NOOOOO
 - MITE!!"  It has kind of a "funky" taste I've only experienced once
before, a few years back when I brewed my "Michelangelo's Ale", in
commemoration of the late artist's birthday.  Since this brew probably
contains some non-Sacharomyces type critters, I'm thinking about
calling it a "Good Times Lambic".  What do you think?

Kelly

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Date: Tue, 13 Dec 1994 14:30:02 -0600 (CST)
From: Rich Larsen <rlarsen at free.org>
Subject: Re: your mail

On Tue, 13 Dec 1994, Richard B. Webb wrote:

> Subject: Wyeast Strains
>
> Rich:
> I couldn't help noticing that you repeated the strains here:
>
> Advanced
> 3944 Belgian Abbey (Chimay)
> 3944 Belgian White (Hoogarden)
>
> Were you unsure or just a mistake? I'm curious to know. Sorry that I can't
> confirm or deny any of your parings. I have taken your list as gospel, and
> incorporated it into my notes...


oops!  Slip o'da finger... The Belgian Abbey should be 1214 not 3944.
Thanks Rich for pointing that out.

=> Rich  (rlarsen at squeaky.free.org)
________________________________________________________________________
Rich Larsen, Midlothian, IL * Also on HomeBrew University (708) 705-7263
    "I never drink... wine"  Bela Lugosi as Dracula
________________________________________________________________________


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Date: Tue, 13 Dec 94 12:34:00 PST
From: "McGaughey, Nial" <nmcgaugh at hq.walldata.com>
Subject: RE: excessive tannins/winter yeast suggestion warning/O2 free



>From: "NAME SEAN O'KEEFE, IFAS FOOD SCIENCE" <SFO at gnv.ifas.ufl.edu>
>Subject: Tannins from hi pH sparge

>has a bitterness I perceive to be tannins.  I havn't bothered adjusting
>pH in the past (I will from now on) so I guess that my pH was too high
<snip>
>age beer with this problem ?  Thanks in advance.

excessive tannin extraction can occur when mash/sparge temps are too high,
or when you sparge too much, either during wort recirculation, or trying to
extract the last little bit f the sugars out of the grain.

keep you mash temps below 165, and watch your sparge temps. stop sparging
after the runoff gravity falls below 1.005 or the wort runs fairly clear (if
you are lazy like me..)

tannins are very common in wine making, and can give a pleasant woody flavor
to wine once they are aged properly. I would say that it would take you1-2
years to realize the efforts of excessive tannin extraction.the only proper
vehicle for this would be barley wine, or imperial stout, or some types of
belgian ales.

make sure you have an excessive tannin problem before you call it such.
tannin can be described as a harsh, husky or grainy flavor in beer. it
sometimes tastes just like a drink made of burnt grain husks.

>Subject: Re: winter yeasts

> i've found a fifteen watt bulb will keep my carboy between 67
>and 70 degrees.

make sure you keep the carboy blocked over so that no light can hit the
beer, there would be enough UV and other light wavelengths coming from a
lightbulb that long term exposure would be harmful to the beer.

>Subject: Wort Guard & Oxygen Free Bottling

> providing a blanket
>of CO2 over your wort and preventing oxidaion. If you spray about 8
>seconds of CO2 into a receiving carboy the transfer is oxygen free.

>I expanded this principle to bottling. Now after cleaning the bottles and
>just before filling them from my keg filled with beer and corn sugar (for
>carbonation) I spray a shot of CO2 into each bottle, I then fill from the
>keg into the bottle. No mess. No waste. No (or not much) oxygen.

uhhh, wouldnt quiet racking of relatively oxygen depleted beer already be
sufficient to displace any oxygen? its not like the gas  would magically
'diffuse' into the beer. this is assuming not splashing or being silly :)
just be sure and displace the headspace with c02 and you should be ok..


 -Nial McGaughey
Wall Data Product Development.

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Date: Wed, 14 Dec 1994 08:53:41 +1100 (EST)
From: David Draper <David.Draper at mq.edu.au>
Subject: Need help for an experiment

Dear Friends, I'm looking for a kind soul to help me out with a small
experiment I wish to do here in Sydney.  I had hoped to obtain some malt
extract syrups while visiting the US (just got back a couple days ago) but
my itinerary, budget, and suitcase space did not allow this.  I need small
samples of 4 commonly-available and commonly-used extract syrups.  I
expect that 250 to 500 ml of each would be plenty for my purposes.  I
would of course be happy to finance the whole operation--I'll pay for the
4 cans/bags of extract, the containers to put the samples in, and the
shipping, and you get to keep the rest of the extract for your own use.
If anyone can help me out on this, please send me email and we can set
something up.

PS Cheers to ol' John Palmer on his highly entertaining tale of the Lager
That Froze.  John, you could probably land a job with Dr. Suess in no time
with that kind of talent!

Cheers, Dave in Sydney
- --
"Life's a bitch, but at least there's homebrew" ---Norm Pyle
******************************************************************************
David S. Draper, School of Earth Sciences, Macquarie University, NSW 2109
Sydney, Australia. email: david.draper at mq.edu.au fax: +61-2-850-8428
             ....I'm not from here, I just live here....



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Date: 13 Dec 1994 14:04:00 U
From: "Palmer.John" <palmer at ssdgwy.mdc.com>
Subject: HSA - 6 of 1, Half Dozen of Other

Lee Kirkpatrick writes about response to Hot Side Aeration questions:

>4) The suggestion that wins the simplicity-and-convenience award
>was to more thoroughly cool the cooked wort in the pot by simply
>adding some of the cold top-off water directly to the cooked wort
>in the pot before dumping, rather than adding all the top-off water
>directly into the fermenter.  In combination with a brief ice-bath
>chilling procedure, this should produce a diluted wort in the pot
>that is cool enough for dumping without danger of hot-side aeration.
>(And the result in the fermenter should be the same as per my
>usual procedure, i.e., pretty close to pitching temperature.)

I have to disagree.  Whether you add Cold Water to Hot Wort or Hot Wort to 
Cold
Water, You are STILL exposing Hot Wort to oxygenated water. Oxidation WILL
occur.
Yes, if you aren't splashing the effect is less; the point is you are still
doing it. And Yes, if you need to compensate for really cold water, chilling 
to
90F and then adding the water will result in minimal oxidation.

If you want to brew using the Best practice, then cool below 80 first before
adding water or pouring. If your water is too cold, then boil some first and
add that to the fermenter to bring the temp up. I routinely pitch my ale 
yeasts
at fermentation temperatures these days. 65F. As long as you have a healthy
starter you shouldnt experience any longer of a lag time.

FWIW,
John J. Palmer - Metallurgist for MDA-SSD M&P
palmer at ssdgwy.mdc.com  Huntington Beach, California
          *Brewing is Fun*
PS. IMO, Sparging is for Lautering, not general straining.


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Date: Wed, 14 Dec 94 11:48:33 +1100
From: ANDY WALSH <awalsh at ozemail.com.au>
Subject: aquarium heaters

Bob Cizmadia sez
>dweller at GVSU.EDU (RONALD DWELLE) asks about cheap ways to control
>fermentation temp.  One suggestion that I have heard and plan to use on
>my next batch is to put the carboy in a larger bucket (I'm using my old
>seven gallon plastic fermenter) filled with water and use an aquarium
>heater to maintain the temperature of this water.
(whoops - Jim sez something similar just after)

If using a plastic bucket to ferment in, life is simpler. Aquarium heaters are
about 1 foot long and 1" wide, encased with glass, with a rubber seal at the
top. Luckily fish like to live at the same temperature that beer does (or a 
bit
warmer, but the range includes beer temps), and aquariums are sort of the
same size as fermenters, so these heaters are perfect for us! Temperature
control is by a dial on the top. If you cut a hole to fit the rubber bit in 
the
lid of
your fermenter, the heater will naturally dip down into the beer. Seal the 
thing
with silastic, from the top (outside). Direct temperature control is then
pretty
simple. If you have 2 lids or 2 fermenters (summer and winter: one with 
heater,
one without), life is easy! I use this technique and recommend it. The glass
heater is easy to sanitise but it is a bit fragile, so be careful!
If using a carboy, you could do something as Bob suggests. I would not
like to have the whole heater inside the carboy with the beer, as the top
is not waterproof (for the temperature dial), the rubber not foodgrade,
and beer is pretty unpredictable stuff, and could easily flow over the top
of the whole thing, causing all sorts of problems! You could, I suppose,
modify your carboy's rubber stopper, but I doubt it is large enough. Also
you must ensure the part of the heater with the coil is surrounded by beer
for it to work.

Andy from Sydney.
** Sorry if this seems late - the time difference causes a bit of lag **
**** I do not put those empty lines after this line - it is my crummy mailer
****











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Date: Tue, 13 Dec 1994 20:14:38 -0500
From: DOUGWEISER at aol.com
Subject: Definition of sparge

In response to the question asked by Lee Kirkpatrick, Webster's dictionary
defines "sparge" as "to splash or sprinkle".

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Date: Tue, 13 Dec 1994 17:59:45 -0800 (PST)
From: Robert Parker <parker at mote.Berkeley.EDU>
Subject: First all-grain, help! + hints to others

I'll briefly describe my first all-grain mash/sparge so that, as well
as helping other all-grain wannabees, the experts can hopefully explain
what was, to me anyway, a surprise.

I used 6.5 lb Vienna, 2.25 lb 2-row, and .75 lb chocolate which the shop
crushed with an industrial strength coffee grinder where they had adjusted
the widths of opposing plates for grain crushing (supposedly no blades
involved).  I put 12.5 quarts of 166 F water in my plastic bucket
mash/lauter tun with false bottom.  I had dissolved 2/3 tsp gypsum in this
mash water.  The temperature stabilized at about 152 F after adding the
grain.  I wrapped the mash tun in a down sleeping bag and blanket and 1
1/4 hours later the temp. had dropped 1 degree or less.

My surprise came when I began the ominous sparge.  The regular
discussions about lengthy, slow, and stuck sparges had me worried.  My
question is: WHY WAS MY SPARGE SO FAST AND EASY? I kept the lauter
tun mostly insulated and lifted it onto my counter.  When I opened the
valve, the initial runnings jetted out.  I recirculated about 7-8
quarts and then began to collect.  Throughout the process, the flow
never slowed--I was collecting it faster than I could add it (manually
with a 1 quart measuring cup)!  What happened to the 1-2 hour slow
trickling I've heard about?!  I used 170 F sparge water that had 2/3
tsp gypsum dissolved in it.

I stopped when I had collected approximately 5.5 gal of wort.  The
runnings were still at 1.020 at 75 F.  After boiling (in 2 kettles) I
had about 4 gal of 1.053 wort.  Does this mean I'm getting 22 pts/lb?
How could I be more effective at flushing out all the sugars that are
evidently still in the 1.020 runnings?  Maybe by slowing the sparge by
not opening the drain valve fully?

Other first-time all-grainer's experiences helped me so I'll pass along
a few of my hints.

1.  Cost is not an issue: I got my 5-gal mash/lauter tun from the local
Chinese restaurant.  I took a second one and cut out the bottom,
drilled hundreds of small holes in it, and used it as the false
bottom.  For $1.69 I bought a hose barb (they'll show you at the
hardware store if you don't know) and 2 washers.  Attach siphon tubing
and a $1.25 flow restrictor from the brew store and your mash/lauter
tun is done.  With the sleeping bag, I can't believe an expensive Gott
cooler is any better.

2.  Don't worry if you don't have a big kettle: You can either use less
grain and make smaller batches or boil in 2 kettles (which is what I
did since I got more wort than I expected).

3.  Don't need a wort chiller if you don't have one: Set the kettle in
a container of cold water, turn the hose on low, set the hose in the
water, and let the slow, constant flow (and occasional stirring) cool
the wort very effectively.

Thanks everyone for all the great info discussed on hdb!

Rob

_ _______________________________________________________________
Robert G. Parker                        parker at mote.berkeley.edu
5144 Etcheverry Hall                    (510) 642-6371
University of California, Berkeley      (510) 642-6163 (fax)
Berkeley, CA  94720


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Date: Tue, 13 Dec 1994 21:28:36 -0500
From: rich at lenihan.iii.net (Rich Lenihan)
Subject: 5L kegs / Sanitation by heat

5L Kegs:

Has anyone tried hooking up on of those 5 liter kegging systems to
a regular CO2 setup (tank, regulator, etc) instead of using the
disposable cartridges?  The 5L mini-kegs sounds like a great idea,
but the disposable cartridges seem a little wasteful (and expensive).

Sanitation by heat:

I've given some thought to using my oven to heat-sanitize a counter-flow
wort chiller.  Assuming the chiller is rinsed clean, what temperatures
and what exposure times are required to sanitize the inside of the coil?
I'd like to do this but I'd don't want to melt the vinyl tubing.

Thanks in advance...

-Rich
rich at lenihan.iii.net  

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Date: 13 Dec 94 19:29:00 GMT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: Wyeast strains/Technical posts/YeastEatingAlcohol/skunkySS/Tannins

In response to Rich's request for corrections:
Wyeast 1028 is not Youngs yeast.  It is reportedly originally from a bottle
of Bass Whiteshield, from back when it used to be sold bottle conditioned.

Also, I too had heard that 1098 is the Whitbread strain, but recent 
experiments
I've done have cast doubt (at least in my mind) on whether this is true (based
upon the ester and higher alcohol levels in Whitbread and beer made with
Wyeast British Ale yeast).
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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1605, 12/14/94