FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Wort aeration (Ray Robert)
  Grape Nuts Beer? (Ben Ide)
  Hot Water heater, not so hot (703)693-5014" <zz11p9c at Pentagon-EMH6.army.mil>
  hops (Kerry Drake)
  Fittings and stuff (Chris Barnhart)
  Air pump filters (Bob Jones)
  Adhesive  thermometers (Btalk)
  Carboy Filling (DBURKE)
  Carboy Filling (DBURKE)
  Carboy Filling (DBURKE)
  re: yeast question (Eric Hale)
  1st all-grain ("Charles S. Jackson")
  subscription request (Greg Ames)



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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Thu, 22 Dec 94 07:55:00 PST
From: Ray Robert <rayr at bah.com>
Subject: Wort aeration


Merry Christmas to one and all!

With all the recent talk about wort aeration, I wanted to throw in a 
potential option.  While in a local Sports Authority I ran across a live 
well in the fishing department.  For those of you that do not know what a 
live well is, it is a bucket with an aerator to put fish in to keep them 
alive (I guess so you can kill them later!?),  This may be a potential 
option for those of you that may want to aerate your wort (and don't mind 
parting with about 40-50 bucks).  The basic set up is a 5 or 7 gallon bucket 
(white plastic not sure if it is food grade) with a lid.   The lid snaps 
tight over the bucket.  The lid has another hinged lid on top (centered) and 
a hole for the aerator.  The aerator fits through the hole and down into the 
water (wort?).  I'm not sure you could ferment in this, but the size I was 
looking at was remarkably similar to the one I had seen at the local 
homebrew store.  Possible with the addition of another lid and airlock, this 
may work.  It looks like you could also sanitize all this.  Could be a great 
last minute gift for the brewer in your family.  (P.S.  I am not affiliated 
with the Sports Authority, maker of the live well, blah, blah.  Hell, I 
don't even own one.)

Robert Ray (rayr at bah.com)
my opinions are mine own.

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Date: Fri, 23 Dec 1994 07:54:15 -0500 (EST)
From: Ben Ide <bide at acad.bryant.edu>
Subject: Grape Nuts Beer?


I was reading the side of my cereal box yesterday morning (I'm usually 
that way at 6AM) and noticed something interesting.  The ingredience list 
for Post Grape Nuts cereal is wheat, malted barley, salt and yeast.  
Sound familiar?  It did to me -- and I'd always wondered why the stuff 
smell like wart!  (I love the smell of wart in the morning!)

So before I round out this experiment out with some finishing hops, I 
thought I'd ask if any of you had tried this before, and with what 
consequences.

				-- Ben

PS.  I've heard of Oatmeal Stout, but this is ridiculous!

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Date: Fri, 23 Dec 1994 07:51:44 -0500 (EST)
From: "Peter Cooke (703)693-5014" <zz11p9c at Pentagon-EMH6.army.mil>
Subject: Hot Water heater, not so hot

A friend of mine uses a hot water heater to heat his sparge water.  The 
problem is getting the temp. of the water to 170+.  The hot water heater 
is set up to run off propane.  The max temp. will not go above 140.  We 
suspect the problem is the thermostat (which is set to the highest 
possible setting).  Has anyone replaced a hot water heater thermostat and 
if so what did you replace it with?  The temperature does seem to reach an
acceptable sparge temp. in the winter but never in the summer.  Any 
solutions would be much appreciated.

Pete Cooke
Bowie, MD

 

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Date: 23 Dec 94 10:14:47 EST
From: Kerry Drake <75347.2350 at compuserve.com>
Subject: hops

GRMarkel at aol.com asks:

>Another question - awhile ago the question was asked about bittering hops
>(high alpha) and finish hops (low alpha). If "finish" hops are used for
>bittering (based on IBU's) can any benefit be gained in flavor? I've often
>wondered that myself, hence watch for answers to that thread but never saw
>any. Any opinions?

My understanding is that the the flavor is gone after the usual 45 - 60 min of
boiling the bittering hops. That being the case, it makes sense to use the high
AA hops for bittering (you need less) and use the good tasting (flavor) hops,
which you may need more of and can cost more, for the flavor cycle, typically
the final 10 minutes or so. Use a good IBU calculator program and it's hard to
go wrong.

Now my question.  Has anyone ever thought of blending whole hops and a little
water in a blender or food processor? Would this yield more consistent results
or get better utilization? Private E-Mail OK.  TIA

 -Kerry, OKC  23-Dec-94 at 09:13:52


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Date:     Fri, 23 Dec 94 10:40:14 EST
From: Chris Barnhart <clbarnha at letterkenn-emh1.army.mil>
Subject:  Fittings and stuff

Hi All,

I'm building my stainless steel mash tun and need sources for SS
fittings, screens, and especially those nifty 3" dial thermometers.
Where can I get a catalog?  Address' or a 1-800 number would be
greatly appreciated.

Thanks and Happy Holidays.

Barny

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Date: Fri, 23 Dec 1994 07:30:38 +0800
From: bjones at bdt.com (Bob Jones)
Subject: Air pump filters

>Timothy P. Laatsch asks about Air Pump Filter?
>
>Hey HBDers,
>
>Season's Greetings! I recently acquired an aquarium pump for wort 
>aeration and had a few questions regarding its use.  
>
>1.  What type of filtering device is preferable?  I am considering a 
>sterilized, in-line filter of either cotton, glass wool, or a commercially 
>available 0.22 um material.  I want to keep out nasties without excessive 
>wear on the pump---it's a major cheapo!
>
>

Plan old cotton works just as good as anything! The key is to keep the path
length thru the cotton long. There is an experiment in a microbiology book I
have that talks about an experiment done before anyone knew about bacteria.
They didn't have microscopes, and didn't know why things would spoil. To
isolate the mechanics of contamination, they setup a flask of fermentable
liquid on a burner and boiled it. When it was cooled they let air enter via
a long tube connected to an air source. The liquid spoiled. They repeated
the experiment with the tube filled with cotton between the liquid and the
air source. Bingo no fermentation/spoilage. They then knew the
spoilage/fermentation critters were air born. Cotton is routinely used for
stopping airborn bacteria. Find the real cotton, not the polyester stuff.

The inline filters also work and are smaller and convenient, but harder to
obtain.

Go to a auto parts store and look for an old inline glass gas filter
housing. They have removable ends and hose barbs on each end. Just unscrew
the housing and cram as much cotton as you can in it. It should work great.

Bob Jones
bjones at bdt.com



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Date: Fri, 23 Dec 1994 11:33:58 -0500
From: Btalk at aol.com
Subject: Adhesive  thermometers

Karel asks about these liquid crystal thermometers used on carboys.

I have Fermometers on a couple of my carboys and feel they are a handy thing
to have to monitor ferment temp.
One particularly interesting finding was how much the temp shot up in the
middle of a violent ale fermentation.

Happy Holidays,
Bob Talkiewicz, Binghamton, NY <btalk at aol.com>

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Date: Fri, 23 Dec 1994 10:41:34 -0600
From: DBURKE at smtpgate.tnrcc.texas.gov
Subject:  Carboy Filling

In HBD #1612,  "Lee A. Kirkpatrick",
<WPSSLAK%WMMVS.BITNET at VTBIT.CC.VT.EDU>
Asked:
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
My understanding is that one advantage of the carboy is that you can fill
it to the bottom of the neck (in the secondary, not the primary), thus 
minimizing the air space and the surface area to reduce contact of the
beer with oxygen.
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, I think the consensus will be that if you have fermentation still active,
that the yeast will be producing carbon dioxide, which will push the lighter
oxygen out of the airlock.  The headspace will be filled with CO2, and 
oxidation should be minimal.  Therefore how high up the liquid level is in
the carboy neck is probably unimportant.  BTW, I have two carboys, and
do primary in one and secondary in the other.  I just rack to get the beer
off the trub and hops and inactive yeast.  It seems to clear faster doing 
this.

And to all the fermenter geometry debaters and the gaseous physics 
types, I realize that this is a simplified assumption.  RDWHAHB.

Dan
dburke at smtpgate.tnrcc.texas.gov


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Date: Fri, 23 Dec 1994 10:42:44 -0600
From: DBURKE at smtpgate.tnrcc.texas.gov
Subject:  Carboy Filling

In HBD #1612,  "Lee A. Kirkpatrick",
<WPSSLAK%WMMVS.BITNET at VTBIT.CC.VT.EDU>
Asked:
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
My understanding is that one advantage of the carboy is that you can fill
it to the bottom of the neck (in the secondary, not the primary), thus 
minimizing the air space and the surface area to reduce contact of the
beer with oxygen.
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, I think the consensus will be that if you have fermentation still active,
that the yeast will be producing carbon dioxide, which will push the lighter
oxygen out of the airlock.  The headspace will be filled with CO2, and 
oxidation should be minimal.  Therefore how high up the liquid level is in
the carboy neck is probably unimportant.  BTW, I have two carboys, and
do primary in one and secondary in the other.  I just rack to get the beer
off the trub and hops and inactive yeast.  It seems to clear faster doing 
this.

And to all the fermenter geometry debaters and the gaseous physics 
types, I realize that this is a simplified assumption.  RDWHAHB.

Dan
dburke at smtpgate.tnrcc.texas.gov


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Date: Fri, 23 Dec 1994 10:43:38 -0600
From: DBURKE at smtpgate.tnrcc.texas.gov
Subject:  Carboy Filling

In HBD #1612,  "Lee A. Kirkpatrick",
<WPSSLAK%WMMVS.BITNET at VTBIT.CC.VT.EDU>
Asked:
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
My understanding is that one advantage of the carboy is that you can fill
it to the bottom of the neck (in the secondary, not the primary), thus 
minimizing the air space and the surface area to reduce contact of the
beer with oxygen.
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, I think the consensus will be that if you have fermentation still active,
that the yeast will be producing carbon dioxide, which will push the lighter
oxygen out of the airlock.  The headspace will be filled with CO2, and 
oxidation should be minimal.  Therefore how high up the liquid level is in
the carboy neck is probably unimportant.  BTW, I have two carboys, and
do primary in one and secondary in the other.  I just rack to get the beer
off the trub and hops and inactive yeast.  It seems to clear faster doing 
this.

And to all the fermenter geometry debaters and the gaseous physics 
types, I realize that this is a simplified assumption.  RDWHAHB.

Dan
dburke at smtpgate.tnrcc.texas.gov


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Date: Fri, 23 Dec 94 10:44 EST
From: Eric Hale <S=Eric_Hale%S=Hale%G=Eric%I=ER%BECHTEL at mcimail.com>
Subject: re: yeast question

Ron Dwelle (dweller at gvsu.edu) write:

>     I heard that Bell's beers (a micro in Kalamazoo) as well as Sierra 
>     Nevada are yeast carbonated in the bottle. Can we recover good yeast 
>     from a bottle? Dependably? What's the best technique?

Sure you can.  I'm no expert on this stuff.  But just to see if I could, I
gave it a shot.  I left about an inch of beer in 2 bottles of Bell's Amber
Ale (my favorite nonhomebrew beer - ANYONE GOT A RECIPE?).  I boiled a couple
of cups of water with about a cup of dry malt extract (extra light laag - not
that it maters).  I cooled it the mixture to about 70 deg F (actually, I put
it in an ice bath and it flew by 70 and went to the 50s...  I let it set at
room temp for a while to warm up).  I swirled the beer to get the dregs off
the bottom and poured the mixture and dregs into an 22 oz. bottle.  Fit the
bottle with an air lock and let it set for a two days.  I couldn't brew for
a few more days so I added more more DME and water (boiled and cooled -
about 1/2 cup of each) to keep it going.  I brewed 2 days later (four days
total from the bottle to the brew). 

I've harvested the dregs off of the bottom of my primary and secondary
fermenter for subsequent batches.  I got one sitting in the fridge, chillin'
for the next batch.  I have been very happy with the results.  Plus the
price is a bonus. 

I think this is similar to the liquid yeast process.  I don't know because
I'm still pretty much a novice and I'm not about to go buy some liquid yeast
for $5.95 when I buy Bell's and Sierra Nevada anyways, i.e., I get my yeast
for free.  

Now go read the YEAST.FAQ, lest yee be flamed.  That's how I figured this
out, plus talking to my favorite homebrew supplier/mentor.  BTW, everyone
needs someone to help them get going in brewing.  I could not have found a
better mentor than the guy who helps me, Steve Bailey.  I'm not going to
advertise for him here.  But if anyone is looking for a helpful homebrew
supplier/mentor, email me and I'll send you his info.  He's got great prices
and better hours.  He works out of his house.  If he's there, he answers the
phone.  If it's an emergency you can page him (I know, he always tells me
"RDWHAHB").  Sorry for the commercial plug - I'll probably be the one to get
flamed.   

Have a very Merry Christmas everyone,
Eric Hale
6465348 at mcimail.com


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Date:     Fri, 23 Dec 94 15:09:22 CST
From: "Charles S. Jackson" <sjackson at ftmcclln-amedd.army.mil>
Subject:  1st all-grain 

fellow brewers, (if I can still call myself a brewer)

     Well, the Outlaw Picobrewery did its first all grain batch this past 
weekend.  What a fiasco.  As events rolled along it became clear that several 
steps were negleted.  The sweet wort that went into the fermentor tasted good 
but when it was racked toa secondary  - WOW - now I know what astringency is.  
I used CP's Jack Unions pale ale recipe 5 lbs klages, 1 lb crystal in a single 
infusion.  First mistake was to over estimate the temperature drop and added 
strike water that was much too hot - the mash settled out at 178F.  Figuring I 
had mashed out at dough in I pitched the whole  mess and set about to crack 6 
more lbs of grain.  Things went better the next time as the directions
(imagine that) were used.  Mashed for an hour since I had forgotten to obtain 
the iodine I took for granted that conversion was complete.  Began to sparge 
and peridically measured the the S.G. adjusting for temperature per TNCJOHB
(exact math not available but exactly as CP describes).  I recirculated about 2
gallons but never got a clear run off so mumbled a few choice words and began 
collecting wort.  Near the end of the sparge I realized that I had *forgotten* 
to add the gypsum to the sparge water.  6.5 gallons of cloudy wort later I 
began the boil.  Added the hops along the way  per the recipe and then went to 
chillin.  When the chill was 'bout done I realized that I had *forgotten* the
irish moss.  I almost restarted the boil but said a few choice words and
didn't.  So...my questions (sheepish red-faced):  can the temperature
corrections for SG be done at any tempeerature or is there a limit?  The
astringency is most likely due to over sparging - yes?  I ceased sparging when
the SG reached (adjusted) 1.006 and this resulted in ~6.5 gallons or cloudy
wort. Do I need to cool the wort before measuring the SG or am I guilty of some
other severe brewing sin?  Should I dump the batch or can I expect the
astringency to ebb?  Hew, this all grain stuff is *real* fun.

  Oh, yea, setup is a gott tower of power with a phalse bottom and a
whirly gig sparge arm both via Listerman.  Grains were cracked with a phil
mill.

Steve
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brewing beer is far more exciting when it is both a hobby AND a felony.
                                             The Alabama Outlaw

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Date: Sat, 24 Dec 1994 01:46:59 -0500 (EST)
From: Greg Ames <tga at lorax.assabet.com>
Subject: subscription request

Please add me to the homebrew digest.

Thanks,
Greg Ames
tga at lorax.assabet.com

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1613, 12/24/94