FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  prematurely attenuating cider (Lenny Garfinkel)
  holiday barleywine (MicahM1269)
  help me with some translation (fleck)
  Refrigerators... how cold are they? ("Lee Bussy")
  5 liter Mini Kegs (DBURKE)
  Sake (Matt_K)
  Isinglass (Richard Buckberg)
  Kitchen Brewing (Bob Chiz)
  Holiday brainstorm (Matt_K)
  Water pH adjustments (Lee Bollard)
  KVAAS recipe (Antonio Kovar)
  Irish Moss (Lee Bollard)
  Stoudt's recipe sought (Rich Andel)
  Pittsburgh area brew happenings ("Rick Gontarek, Ph.D.")
  Carboy deposits/Oxidized Resins (Philip Gravel)
  St. Louis Information & a question or 2 (ATMRM)



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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Mon, 2 Jan 1995 12:16:38 +0200 (IST)
From: Lenny Garfinkel <lenny at zeus.datasrv.co.il>
Subject: prematurely attenuating cider


I had high hopes for a cider which I began last week, but now I'm 
beginning to worry.  The cider contains 10 liters of apple juice (no 
preservatives) from concentrate plus 1 kg brown sugar.  OG 1.082.   My 
starter contained about 0.5 liter of 2X strength apple juice to which I 
added 1/4 pkg Red Star Cote des Blancs wine yeast.  The starter grew 
fine, and by 24 hours after adding to the large batch, there was 
tremendous activity in the blowout hose.  So far, just like previous 
batches.  But previous batches were not as ambitious alcohol-wise.  I 
bought the wine yeast because I wanted a high alcohol content and 
champagne yeast happened to be sold out at the time.  I reasoned that any 
wine yeast should be able to get to 11% alcohol with no problem, right?  
Well, after 6 days SG was 1.045 and the bubbling has slowed down 
considerably.  This means 5% alcohol, 6% to go.  I expected the 
fermentation to be vigorous until at least 80-90% of the sugar was gone, 
not 50%.  Is this destined to be a very, very sweet 5-6% alcohol cider?  
Is there any reason why champagne yeast should be better than cote des 
blancs wine yeast?

Thanks,

Lenny Garfinkel


_________________________________________________________________
Dr. Leonard Garfinkel       | Internet:  lenny at zeus.datasrv.co.il
Bio-Technology General      | Office Phone: 972-8-381256     
Kiryat Weizmann             | Home Phone:   972-8-451505
Rehovot, Israel             | FAX:          972-8-409041
- -----------------------------------------------------------------


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Date: Mon, 2 Jan 1995 07:47:23 -0500
From: MicahM1269 at aol.com
Subject: holiday barleywine

I had the oppurtunity to finaly tap into my 94 holiday beer. This home brew
was
so incredible that I thought that I should share the recipe. 5 gallons of
this went
 to the SAAZ homebrew club X-mas party and was consumed rapidly.  Also it
is a exercise in high gravity / first runnings brewing. BTW the beer is a
vanilla
barleywine.
As follows for a 15 gallon ( net ) batch :
50# pale malt
25# wheat malt
5# carastan
2# light brown sugar ( last 15 min. of boil )
centennial hops 8.0 oz  at  8.1% alpha - 75 min
centennial hops 1.0 oz       "        "     - dry in primary after 3 days
yeast wort was racked onto the lees of a pale ale batch ( mcbc yeast )
OG 25 P or 1.100

grist was spilt into two equal mashes ( so what follows for mashing
 was done twice)
9 gallons  at  175 F for mash in - mash temp averaged 152 F- 45 min mash
3.5 gallons  at  180 F for mash out - 15 min
collect first runnings

runnoff  from first mash was boiling during the second mash. When combined
combined and brought to a boil hops were added.
Note: one gallon of mash runnoff was collected and reserved ( frozen ) to be
used
for krausen later.

Fermented 10 days at 70 F, racked to secondary with krausen and 1 pint
vanilla
extract, 2 tbs nutmeg, 2 tbs ginger. Secondary temp 60 -45 for one month,
racked
to soda kegs.

micah millspaw - brewer at large

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Date: Fri, 30 Dec 1994 20:31:49 -0500
From: fleck at newton.franklincoll.edu
Subject: help me with some translation

Perhaps the collective wisdom of the Digest can help me figure out what I 
have. I just received an old piece of etched glass with a picture of a fellow
standing in front of a few kegs of beer sampling a glass of brew.

On this object (which appears from its size-3 1/2 feet by 5 feet-to have been
a window) are the following words: Brouwerij De Hertog. Written on the kegs
are Dubbel Gersten, Extra Gersten and Gersten. The etcher was/is Philbert
Gaillac.

I am wondering if this is something from Belguim or Holland. . .Any ideas?

Private e-mail is fine, or you can post to the digest. TIA
Susie Fleck
Fleck at newton.franklincoll.edu

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Date:          Mon, 2 Jan 1995 09:34:59 +0000
From: "Lee Bussy" <leeb at southwind.net>
Subject:       Refrigerators... how cold are they?

I've been reading the HBD for the last few issues and the issue of 
refrigerators has come up.  Once again something I feel I must add my 
$0.02  to :).

Domestic refrigerators are made to operate in the 35-45 degree range 
with typical temps in the high 30's.  

The problem with using a reforigeratoe for beer is twofold:  One, the 
temperature is too low for most fermentations.  Two, the differential 
on the thermostat is around 14 degrees.  This is to prevent the 
compressor from short cycling as the door is opened and closed.

The Hunter Airstat (which someone has posted is available again 
somewhere) combatted both of these by reducing the differential to 4 
degrees (or is it 6?) and allowing a higher range of settings.  It 
will not go down below 40 deg however.  There is a text file in the 
archives I think that details modifications to the airstat to allow 
temps of a steady 35 degrees.

Hope this clears things up for some.


 -Lee Bussy          | The 4 Basic Foodgroups....      |
 leeb at southwind.net | Salt, Fat, Beer & Women!        |
 Wichita, Kansas    | http://www.southwind.net/~leeb  |

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Date: Mon, 02 Jan 1995 09:54:16 -0600
From: DBURKE at smtpgate.tnrcc.texas.gov
Subject:  5 liter Mini Kegs

I just purchased a mini-kegging setup this weekend, and put it to use right
away kegging a Guinness-style stout that was sitting in the carboy
awaiting bottle washing.

My question is, that in my usual do-it-first-read-instructions-later-style, 
I may have over-primed.  I used about 5/8 c corn sugar for priming, 
which I lamely reasoned, was a reduction in my usual 3/4 to 1c.  I bottled
half of the five gallon batch as usual.  After finishing up and sitting back to
read the keg directions, I was dismayed to find that the mfr. recommends
about 1/3 c.

Have I got little 5-liter grenades ticking away?  Should I tuck them
somewhere out of the way in anticipation of the burst, or will they be all
right? I have heard horror stories about these cans swelling or bursting if
overprimed.  Can I maybe release the pressure if the start to distend?
One consolation is that fermentation was good and over when I primed.
The beer was dead flat, and had been in secondary about two weeks, so
there was no residual carbonation from fermentation.

Maybe one other solution would be to let it carbonate about a week and
then refrigerate the kegs to slow down further yeast activity and
carbonation?  'Course, stouts don't generally last too long around me
anyway, so it might not be a problem :)  Also, if I use 1/3 c as
recommended, will my  bottles that I fill from the same batch carbonate
adequately, or am, I going to have to prime the kegged protion, and then
prime more for the bottled portion?

Thanks for any thoughts, and please post here; there has been a dearth
of info about mini-kegs (yes I do know about the FAQ) and I would like to
disseminate as much info about them here as possible.

Dan
dburke at smtpgate.tnrcc.texas.gov


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Date: Mon, 2 Jan 95 11:48:26 est
From: Matt_K at ceo.sts-systems.ca
Subject: Sake

Message:
Alert!! Alert!! This question is not beer related but it's for my 
father in law so I have to post this for my own good.

He is trying his hand at making sake for the first time and cannot 
find any koji (sp?), a rice enzyme.  Does anyone have a lead on where 
to find this stuff?
 
Many thank's

Matt
Montreal


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Date: Mon, 2 Jan 1995 10:00:03 -0800
From: Richard Buckberg <buck at well.sf.ca.us>
Subject: Isinglass


A recent pale ale batch, still in secondary, doesn't seem to have cleared as
well as usual, or as desired.  It seems too cloudy for its 1.042 OG, though
there is some 90-L and 10-L in the mix.

My question is, has anyone used isinglass to clear a brew?  Does it work
well, and does it take out flavor?

I used Irish moss and sparkolloid in the boil, FWIW.

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Date: Mon, 2 Jan 95 13:28:08 MST
From: chiz at atmel.com (Bob Chiz)
Subject: Kitchen Brewing


In HBD #1617, dburns at msi.com writes:

> Advantages:
>  - wife not underfoot
>  - wife not complaining, as much
>  - easier cleanup (i.e. none ;)
>  - easier to deal with immersion chiller/hose etc...
>  - closer to supplies, kept in adjacent basement
>
>I can't imagine going back to the kitchen now. In fact, I
>think the kitchen is only for novice brewers first couple
>batches. I'm barely more than a novice myself. From the
>description, I can't even imagine all-grain brewing
>happening in a kitchen. Oops, I'm forgetting about
>single people here I suppose...

Well, I brew in my kitchen, not my wife's.  I was actually 
blessed to find a house that had TWO kitchens.  One is my
brewery, one is her kitchen.  All the advantages you claim,
plus all the advantages of a kitchen, ie sinks, drains,
cabinets, stove for decoctions, etc.  This has definitely 
created more harmony in my marriage.  

Now for my problem.  My stove recently decided not to work
any more.  Had something to do with the bubble gum acting
like solder and electrical tape.  So my question is; for all
the reasons previously stated, I do not want to use propane
in my kitchen.  I would like to find a large electric cooker
that would be more efficient than a stove.  I have checked 
two restaurant supply stores with no luck. 220V is fine.
Anyone have any ideas ?

Bob Chizmadia
Colorado Springs, CO
chiz at atmel.com

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Date: Mon, 2 Jan 95 17:11:46 est
From: Matt_K at ceo.sts-systems.ca
Subject: Holiday brainstorm

Message:
My brewbuddy and I were sitting around over the holidays, having a few 
brews when the conversation turned to scuba diving.  We were 
discussing good dive sites (i.e. something to see in the water and 
someplace to go for a beer and food after) when Darryl went to the 
fridge to top up his mug.  He seemed to stop in deep thought as his 
eye caught sight of the corny keg sitting in the fridge.  "Hmmmmm" was 
all I heared as he disappeared into his garage and returned with a 
measuring tape.  Several short measurements later I heared: "Thought 
so!" and an idea was born.  BREWBA DIVING!!!
 
As it turns out, the corny keg and Darryl's scuba tank have exactly 
the same diameter.  Therefore, if you want to take your favourite 
beverage with you, beneath the waves, just replace one of the scuyba 
tanks with the corny keg, connect the gas-in fitting to the scuba tank 
and the liquid-out to a selector valve on the regulator.  When thirsty 
while diving, select brew and enjoy.
 
Seriously though DONT TRY THIS.
 
Merrily yours
Matt
Montreal


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Date: Mon, 2 Jan 95 14:47:52 PST
From: Lee Bollard <bollard at spk.hp.com>
Subject: Water pH adjustments

My water is pH 7.3 so I am following Miller's advice on treating the
sparge water with Lactic acid.  I'm using Lactic instead of gypsum
because my total alkalinity is high (168). Is this valid logic?  
I mixed 88% lactic at 1tsp/1.5 cups, then added this to my sparge 
water at 4tsp/gallon. The pH reading didn't change much at all!  
Why?  Miller says this concentration of lactic changes his water 
from pH 9.5 to pH 5.7!  I need to understand whether I should treat my
water, at what rate, and with what substance to make the best pale
ales.  I really don't care about matching styles, and I know I should be
checking the pH of the runnings (around 5.7). 

Some locals have said NOT to treat the water, but some of those folks
also told me NOT to make STARTERS for my liquid yeast... so I'm
asking here.  How should I treat my water for PALE ALES?

I don't understand everything in Miller's water chapter, so please tell
me if I'm off-base in my assumptions :-)

My water:
- ---------
Carbonate: ?
Bicarbonate: ?
Total Alkalinity: 168
Total Hardness: 173
Calcium: 45
Magnesium: 14
Sulfate: 14
Chloride: 12.5
Sodium: 9.6
pH: 7.28 

Thanks so much, and happy new year!

- ---
Regards,

Lee Bollard
bollard at spk.hp.com


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Date: Mon, 2 Jan 95 18:04:08 -0500
From: Antonio Kovar <kovara1 at hp800.lasalle.edu>
Subject: KVAAS recipe

Many years ago, my grandmother, who is Ukrainian, tried to brew a batch of 
KVAAS. The recipe never worked out and my father and her gave up. Since I 
am now brewing beer, I would like to reproduce this beverage. As my dad 
recalls, you had to use rye bread! in the recipe?! If any one has ever made 
a good batch,please contact me with the recipe. Thanks in advance.      
                        TONY KOVAR


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Date: Mon, 2 Jan 95 15:27:44 PST
From: Lee Bollard <bollard at spk.hp.com>
Subject: Irish Moss

I began using Irish Moss and have a question.  After boiling and cooling,
my wort contains no large coagulated proteins, just some fine sediment
at the kettle bottom.
The next day I see lots of pieces of stuff flying around in the carboy.
The pieces look like rice krispy treats floating in there.  They were
not present until I started using Irish Moss.  No problem I guess.

It seems that others have reported the proteins were present in the KETTLE 
and not in the primary.(?)  Or am I confusing hot break with cold break
with trub (?)  I don't see any large pieces of ANYTHING in the kettle, 
just in the primary, but I do use hops bags in the kettle.

I'm not worried, just curious.  I'm using Irish Moss at 0.5 TBL per 5
gallons, rehydrated, and for most of the 60 min boil.

- ---
Regards,

Lee Bollard
bollard at spk.hp.com


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Date: Mon, 2 Jan 1995 17:58:13 -0700 (MST)
From: randel at nyx.cs.du.edu (Rich Andel)
Subject: Stoudt's recipe sought

If anyone has a recipe for something similar to Stoudt's Ale or Amber,
or Geary's Pale Ale please send it to me.  I live about 4.5 hours 
from Stoudt's but unfortunately they don't distribute anywhere near me
(about 200 miles).

I have tried their Ale, Amber, Fest, Golden, Pilsner and Maibock and
can't believe how much I enjoyed each of them (especially the Ale and Amber).
I have tried culturing yeast from a 750ml bottle of Ale with no luck.
A description from their brochure follows:

Stoudt's Ale
An English-Style Ale made with a top fermenting ale yeast.  Amberish red 
in color, fairly high and hoppy characteristic with 40 B.U.  A cross between
a British bitter and an I.P.A.  Dry hopped with Kent Golding.

						Thanks in advance,
					 	Rich Andel
   						randel at nyx.cs.du.edu
							

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Date: Mon, 2 Jan 1995 20:58:45 -0500 (EST)
From: "Rick Gontarek, Ph.D." <GONTAREK at FCRFV1.NCIFCRF.GOV>
Subject: Pittsburgh area brew happenings

Happy New Year, everyone!  My wife and I will be visiting Pittsburgh, PA
this weekend, and I would appreciate private email from anyone who 
has suggestions for good breweries/brewpubs/bars/etc to visit while we're
there.  I've heard of the Pennsylvania Brewing Company...any other
suggestions would be appreciated.

TIA!!

Rick Gontarek
Owner/Brewmaster of the Major Groove Picobrewery
Baltimore, MD
gontarek at fcrfv1.ncifcrf.gov

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Date: Mon, 2 Jan 1995 22:13:41 -0600 (CST)
From: pgravel at mcs.com (Philip Gravel)
Subject: Carboy deposits/Oxidized Resins

===> Dan Roman asks about deposits he found in his carboy:

> Out of sheer laziness I left a bleach and water solution in one of my
> carboys for an extended period of time (greater than a month).  When
> recently going back to get the carboy ready for brewing I noticed what
> looked like pitting in the bottom and sides of the carboy.  Further
> investigation revealed that it was not pitting but rather very small
> deposits which look like sugar or salt crystals clinging to the glass
> surface.  Problem is they are clinging rather strongly and I'm having
> trouble getting them off.
> 
> I've tried bleach, B-brite, and hot water and none of these will disolve
> it off.  The only thing I've found that works so far is using a wood
> dowel with one of those Scotch Brite pads attached to it and applying
> lots of elbow grease.
> 
> Anybody have any idea was this crud is?  Is there an easy way to get rid
> of it?  Since the wood dowel mechanical method will not get everything
> will this stuff hurt my beer if I brew with it in the carboy?

It might be mineral deposits.  If so, some product like Lime Away or white
vinegar (something acidic) should help remove them especially if they are
carbonates.

===> Norm Pyle comments on the oxidization of hop resins:

> Another question:  Mark Garetz contends that the hop resins that get pushed
> to the top of the krauesen during fermentation become oxidized and insoluble,
> so that even if they fall back in the wort they are lost in terms of
> their bitterness contribution.  I don't quite understand this, as it seems
> that by the time high krauesen occurs, the environment in the top of the
> fermenter should be quite oxygen-free.  Any comments?

I would agree with your assessment about the likelihood of hop resins
in the krauesen becoming oxidized.  I would also expect that most of
the air (and consequently the oxygen it contains) would have been
expelled by the carbon dioxide given off by the fermentation process.

- -- 
Phil
_____________________________________________________________
Philip Gravel                                 pgravel at mcs.com

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Date: Mon, 02 Jan 1995 20:44:27 -0800
From: ATMRM at acad2.alaska.edu
Subject: St. Louis Information & a question or 2

Hi all,

Dan Walker asked about brewpubs in St. Louis. I was there 7 weeks ago and
visited 2 breweries (not AB!). The Tap room is located near Union Station
a few blocks north of Market Street (near 21st Street?). Nice place, they
offered about 6-8 brew selections, the two I sampled were good. Over in
Fairview Heights, Illinois, J.D. Nicks is located at 1711 West Hwy 50. I
sampled 3 of 5 brews and they were all very good, I think someone said
they were just getting a new brew master in mid-November. They have a full
menu and are generally open from 8am to 9 or 10 pm.

Even though I hate to embarrass myself like this, does any one have a
good (?) recipe for a Busch Beer clone? (I hate the stuff, but my father-
in-law lives near St Louis and loves the stuff). Thanks in advance.

Matt Mueller
Anchorage, AK



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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1621, 01/03/95