FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Kettle Sight Glass and Fitt ("Jim Hunter")
  Re: dropping (Tel +44 784 443167)
  Dryhopping/Belgian Malts (Waldon, Tracy )
  Re: diacetyl rest (Q) (summary) (Mel E. Martinez)
  Brewpubs/Micros in Tampa/St. Pete (Cherisse Gardner)
  frementation problems with Weissen (David Foulk)
  VISITING CT (Dan Christofferson)
  Oregon Homebrew Competition (Jennifer Crum)
  Re: Brewpubs & Microbreweries in San Diego ("C. John Mare")
  Re: Chlorine (Mel E. Martinez)
  Celis Changes (Rob Reed)
  Zymurgy Stout Recipie (Curiouser and curiouser...)
  German Brewery trip tips? (davidson)
  Fiberglass, Orlando (CLAY)
  FermTemp and refrig temp control (Kaltenbach)
  kettle sight glass source (Yeastbud)
  Cornie Poppet Removal (BrewBeerd)
  Magnetic stainless, numbers in Guidelines, grammar lessons ("Lee C. Bussy")
  RE: Differences between bottles and minikegs (W. Paul Bell)
  Re: Diacetyl Rest (RWaterfall)
  Re: Boiling Clorox (Edward Bockman)
  RE: HBD 1670: Mash Experiments (Kirk R Fleming)
  ESB with a lemony taste (fleck)
  RE: Boiling Clorox (karns1)
  Thanks (MATTD)
  Poppets/Hefe-Weizen (Jeff Stampes)
  break material & hydrometer readings (Matthew Howell)
  TSP and Copper ("Palmer.John")
  pico-Brewing Systems' "Pump Unit" (Philip DiFalco)
  Mississippi (Karen Barela/AHA President)
  SA: Ales v. lagers (uswlsrap)
  pH Meters (ecklund)
  trub-sitting/brown stains/coyote (RONALD DWELLE)
  cookers (djfitzg)
  Re:Brown Scum (Nic Herriges)
  Superb burners ("Todd Orjala")



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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: 2 Mar 1995 08:04:28 -0800
From: "Jim Hunter" <Jim.Hunter.LDIV at quickmail.llnl.gov>
Subject: Kettle Sight Glass and Fitt

  REGARDING           Kettle Sight Glass and Fittings...

I have yet another way to set up a sight glass in a brewing vessel. If you
haven't already welded or had welded a SS coupling at the bottom of your
vessel or better yet your coupling is removable, drill & tap the top of the
side of the coupling for 1/8" pipe threads. Buy a compression fitting that is
1/8" male pipe thread on one end to 1/4" compression on the other. My source
is on the west coast for SS; Duhig (San Diego, CA 619-549-7805). Buy  how ever
many feet of 1/4" Pyrex tubing you need; Nasco Farm & Ranch (Modesto, CA
209-529-6957, I think they have it.) And lastly, get some 3/4" OD x 1/16" wall
acrylic Plexiglas tubing for a gage shield; My source: Plastics 2000.

Screw the compression fitting into the hole in the coupling, remove the
ferrule from the compression side of the fitting, find an Oring to fit the
1/4" glass tubing, put the Oring on the glass tube, insert the glass tube into
the compression fitting, leave the ferule drive washer in the compression nut
to drive the Oring into the taper seat to make the seal when you carefully
tighten the nut.

Slide the Plexiglas tubing over the Pyrex glass tubing for a gage shield. I
had to file grooves on the inside of the Plexiglas to mate with the
compression nut corners. Find a way to secure the Plexiglas tube to the top of
the vessel rim. Add water, 1 gal at a time to calibrate the Pyrex tube with a
mark.

In my case because of the height of the compression fitting and the curvature
of the bottom of the vessel you won't start to see a level until ~2 gallons.
You might get around this by putting the pipe threads under the coupling and
using two fittings to form a U shape which would lower the margin of the
glass/SS nut lower with respect to the tank bottom.

Jim Hunter


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Date: Thu, 2 Mar 1995 12:41:58 +0000
From: Brian Gowland <B.Gowland at rhbnc.ac.uk> (Tel +44 784 443167)
Subject: Re: dropping

In HBD 1669, korz at iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583) wrote:
> 
> So where does that leave us?  Well, as I see it, it means that it is important
> when "dropping" to include a significant portion of the yeast on the top, no?
> Excluding *all* the kraeusen (ok, so it's a German word) will increase your
> chances of increasing the percentage of poor flocculators.  Let's recall that
> it's the dirty head (that dark brown gunk) that we're trying to get rid of,
> NOT the creamy white yeast cake.

        I would say that a fair amount of the "good" part of the yeast head
does get included during dropping (or at least the way I do it). I use a long
plastic tube that reaches to the bottom of my fermenter which has a blocked
end and a couple of holes about 3/4 inch from the bottom - this connects to
my syphon. As the level of the fermenting wort goes down and the head reaches
the holes, I would say that a deal of the good yeast head from the underside of
the dirty head will get transferred. All thats left at the end really is the
dirty brown head that is usually fairly solid and pretty impossible to syphon
out.

Cheers,
        Brian


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Date: Thu Mar  2 13:22:57 1995
From: <TWALDON at fcc.gov> (Waldon, Tracy )
Subject: Dryhopping/Belgian Malts

Al K. was responding to David's question (sorry I missed it) 
about dryhopping.

<but I only use whole hops or plugs.  I used pellets once 
<and talked to a brewer last Sunday about all the problems
<he had racking a beer dryhopped with pellets (although his 
<beer did smell great!) and I feel that it is much easier to 
<dryhop with whole/plug hops since they float for the 
<most part. 

The clippings(?) left by dryhoppping with pellets are a 
big problem.  What I have discovered to work best is 
to tie one of those small muslin grain bags around the 
end of my racking cane.  I boil up the bag and a rubber 
band (to sanitize) and then attached it to the end.  I keep 
the bag loosely attached so that all the extra folds in the 
bag give a more tortuous route for the clippings to get 
through.  I've found that this works great for me.  

Al's comment that "his [friend's] beer did smell great" 
upon dryhopping with pellets leads me to ask if you have 
found other hop forms, particularly plugs, offer a poorer 
quality?  I will admit to having tried dryhopping with plugs 
and not caring for the _flavor_ (don't recall aroma problems).  
It seemed to add a slight resiny character.  It was not a 
flaw with the beer to start with, honest!  I don't believe it 
to have been the hop variety either.  I did talk to one other 
person who felt that they noticed this same effect.  Has 
anyone else noticed this effect?


Kevin Emery passes along his experiences with biscuit malt

<My advice...  Don't use biscuit, or if you do.... Do so sparingly!

Using it sparingly is good advice for any specialty malt.  I 
have had good success with biscuit malt.  Including a 
recipe with 1 lb. biscuit in a 7 lb. grain bill (i.e. about 15%), 
I wouldn't want to go much higher though.  

m.marshburn (/D202 at cgsmtp.comdt.uscg.mil) was asking 
about D-C Pils malt, which used to be my malt of choice.  
I always used a protein rest with it.  I prefer 20 min  at  120F 
and 20 min  at 130F and get no haze problems.  Others may 
have schedules with equally good results.  I believe it was 
the first issue of Brewing Techniques in which there was 
an article on these malts.  As I recall, it suggested a protein 
for both the pale ale and pils, based upon the nitrogen content.

Speaking of Belgian Malts, I purchased some Special B 
over the weekend.  It was malted by HDM (or maybe HGM).  
It's been awhile since I've bought any, but my last purchase 
was DeWolf-Cosyns Special B.  I seem to remember it having 
a kernel of caramelized sugar in it.  The stuff from HDM does 
not, it appears to just be a roasted malt.  Anyone have any 
info on the differences between these two products?


******************************************
Tracy Waldon               twaldon at fcc.gov    
Just another paranoid anarchist on the ISH
******************************************






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Date: Thu, 2 Mar 1995 13:31:45 -0500
From: mem at rowland.pha.jhu.edu (Mel E. Martinez)
Subject: Re: diacetyl rest (Q) (summary)

Previously, I requested info on fermenting a Pilsner, especially I wanted
someone to explain to me the diacetyl rest.  I recieved a flurry of very
nice and helpful replies and also a few queries so I thought I'd summarize.

Basically, most recommend doing the entire ferment from primary to lager at
low temp, preferably below 50 F.  I should be able to accommodate that.
During the ferment, diacetyl will be produced to some extent.  Eventually,
the yeast will process the diacetyl out, but to hurry this up, one can
temporarily increase the temp to the low 50's for a couple of days.  A
couple people recommended that the best time for this is after the primary
ferment is done and preferably when the S. G. has fallen by about 2/3 of
it's original value.  After the rest, you return to the colder temps to
finish the lagering.

As a couple of people pointed out, the diacetyl rest is not an absolute
necessity, but does hurry the process.

Thanks again to those who replied.

Cheers,

Mel Martinez
The Johns Hopkins University
Dept. of Physics
mem at pha.jhu.edu



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Date: Thu, 2 Mar 1995 13:35:06 -0500 (EST)
From: Cherisse Gardner <cgardner at nova.umuc.edu>
Subject: Brewpubs/Micros in Tampa/St. Pete

Greetings!

I am planning to be in the Tampa/St. Pete area mid March and wondered if 
any of you know of any brewpubs and micros in the to visit?  Private 
e-mail welcome:	CGARDNER at NOVA.UMUC.EDU

Thanks!

______________________________________________________________________________
"Then again, inner peace may not 		Cherisse Gardner
be everything it's cracked up to		Instructional Designer
be, either!"  - Christopher Burke 		Univ. of MD Univ. College
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------



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Date: Thu, 2 Mar 1995 12:48:05 -0700
From: dfoulk at gsvms2.cc.gasou.edu (David Foulk)
Subject: frementation problems with Weissen

I am a beginner still using brewkits (only two batches) and have had a 
problem with fermentation.  I brewed an Edme Weisen and substituted a 3.5 
lb. can of Alexanders light extract for brewers sugar.  After cooling and 
transferring to a carboy I pitched the yeast and attached by blowoff tube.  
The yeast began to work almost immediately and blew off gasses hard for 24 
hours.  After it slowed I removed the blowoff and attached the airlock late 
that evening.  The next morning the bubbles were already at one per minute.  
What caused this sudden reduction in activity?  I checked the temperature 
and it was at 75, I dropped the temp to around 70 but no activity resumed.  
What can I do now?  Can it be saved, should I just let it sit and see if it 
resumes, can I jump start it?  HELP!  E-mail would save band width.  TIA
***************************************************************************
David Foulk
Dept. Health Science Ed.
Georgia Southern University
Phone 912-681-5266
FAX   912-681-0721


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Date: Thu, 02 Mar 95 14:18 CDT
From: Dan Christofferson <NUCTROLL at macc.wisc.edu>
Subject: VISITING CT

	I will be visiting the Groton/New London CT and Providence RI areas
later this month.  Can anyone help me identify some microbrew/brewpubs in the
area.  Private email is fine.
 
Dan Christofferson
NUCTROLL at macc.wisc.edu

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Date: Thu, 2 Mar 1995 12:44:26 -0800 (PST)
From: Jennifer Crum <crumj at ava.bcc.orst.edu>
Subject: Oregon Homebrew Competition

First call! Start brewin'!

                           THE 13th ANNUAL

               OREGON HOMEBREW COMPETITION AND FESTIVAL

                  On Saturday, May 13, 1995 at 11 am.
   Benton County Fairgrounds - 110 SW 53rd Street, Corvallis, Oregon.

             Sponsored by Heart of the Valley Homebrewers.
                    Sanctioned by AHA and HWBTA

          With Special Guests Fred Eckhardt and Daryll Richman

We will be recognizing all 24 AHA categories and combining them into
groups if needed. The competition is open to anyone. Cost is $5.00 per 
entry if recieved by May 12th and $8.00 on the day of the competition. 
Entries may be shipped via UPS to The Homebrew Shop, 130 Hill St N.E., 
Albany, OR 97321. Standard AHA entry forms will be accepted.

For full information or entry forms send email with your name, email
address, and snail mail address to Jennifer Crum at crumj at bcc.orst.edu

If interested in judging, contact Ted Manahan at internet address
tedm at hp-pcd.cv.hp.com



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Date: Thu, 02 Mar 1995 14:56:35 -0700 (MST)
From: "C. John Mare" <MARE at vetsci.agpharm.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Brewpubs & Microbreweries in San Diego

Dave Shaver asked about tours of brewpubs & microbreweries in the San
Diego area. I too will be in San Diego soon and would apreciate the
same information. I will be judging in the "America's Finest City"
competition on Saturday, March 11, and will be attending a convention
in the Mission Bay area on March 12-14. Private e-mail would be
appreciated.
Thanks,
John Mare

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Date: Thu, 2 Mar 1995 19:10:58 -0500
From: mem at rowland.pha.jhu.edu (Mel E. Martinez)
Subject: Re: Chlorine

 Eamonn McKernan <eamonn at rainbow.physics.utoronto.ca> asks about chlorine
>
>There was a recent posting about not letting chlorine solutions dry on
>equipment, because something crystalizes when it dries. Does this ring a bell
>for anyone? Please e-mail me if you remember the digest number please. I
>just read this month's CABA newsletter where it was suggested that brewers
>sanitize their beer bottles whenever they feel like it by soaking in bleach
>water for a day or more. Then letting them dry without rinsing, and covering
>the tops with aluminum foil. Something like Papazian's suggestion in the
>Companion. This seems to be a bad idea if nasty tasting chlorine compounds
>crystalize out. I was hoping to write them a response, but need the reference
>please.
>

I wouldn't be too worried about whatever compounds crystalize out upon
drying actually tainting your beer so long as you rinse the bottles good,
preferably with a jet bottle washer prior to filling.  Papazian does say to
rinse.  I think these salts are likely to be pretty soluble and should
rinse almost instantaneously.

Whether this provides adequate sanitation might be more arguable. I imagine
that the dry surface, coated with chlorine salts, is pretty inhospitable to
most buggers, but I'm no expert there.  I have used this technique though
and I haven't noticed any problem with infection or taste.  I do rinse the
bottles thoroughly before use and my tap water is ~145 F so for all I know
the latter step is doing the real sanitizing.  However, you cannot beat the
'let it soak in mild bleach solution' for doing all your cleaning work.
You just drop 'em in and few days later, pull them out.  Labels, sediment,
glue, everything completely disintegrates or falls off.  I keep a 5 gal
bucket next to my bottle stash that I do this with.  Couldn't be much
simpler.

Now, on the other hand, it is generally a bad idea to let bleach solution
dry like this on any metal surfaces as the bleach will attack it and
eventually pit and wear it down.  This is no big deal for a quick dip &
then a good rinse, but no sense leaving bleach on metal surfaces for a
prolonged time.  I think most plastics could care less about bleach, but
I'm not positive.

I'm sure one of our resident chemists will jump in now with tons of
corrections and clarifications.  :-)

Cheers,

Mel Martinez
The Johns Hopkins University
Dept. of Physics
mem at pha.jhu.edu



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Date: Thu, 2 Mar 1995 11:15:53 -0500 (EST)
From: Rob Reed <rhreed at icdc.delcoelect.com>
Subject: Celis Changes

Robert Heynen reported:

> After months of denying rumors about Miller buying out Celis,  Pierre Celis
> announced today in Austin the merger between Miller Brewing and Celis
> Beers.  Miller will have  majority ownership of Celis Beers while Pierre
> will remain in control of the brewing process.  They have plans for
> expanding production and distribution of Celis beers, although the brewery
> will remain at its present site.
>

This is not April 1st, so...
Do we have any additional information on this?  I can't understand what Celis'
motivation to sell to MB.  Is Pierre's plan to obtain wider distribution only
or should we expect a Genuine Draft Grand Cru in the next few months.  With
Miller's only apparent motivation being obtaining a chunk of the u-brewery
market, this is indeed a dark day.

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Date: Thu, 2 Mar 1995 16:18:51 -0800
From: ruderman at esca.com (Curiouser and curiouser...)
Subject: Zymurgy Stout Recipie

Hello,

I am brewing an imperial stout recipe that I found in the last issue of
Zymurgy.  At bottling time, the recipe calls for adding lactose and molasses
(the exact amounts for this 3 gallon batch escape me at the moment).  My
question is how should I add them to the beer?
 Do I boil the two ingredients together with a little water?
 Should I still add priming (corn) sugar (I kinda doubt it as the molasses is a
 fermentable sugar unlike the lactose)?

Thanks,
Robert

reply: ruderman at esca.com



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Date: Thu, 2 Mar 1995 20:16:11 -0500 (EST)
From: davidson at uvm-gen.EMBA.UVM.EDU
Subject: German Brewery trip tips?

>From 17 March to 25 March, I'm headed to Germany, and I'd really
appreciate any advice on the best places to go.  Specifically,
we're headed to two regions.  The first (Hinterzarten/Titisee) is
in southwest Germany, near Freiburg and the Black Forest.  The
second is Chemnitz and Zwickau, south of Dresden... 

Second, I've read in one of Jackson's books that Paulaner breaks open
their bocks on 19 March.  Anyone know more about this and wanna tell
me what they can about it or any other bocks not to be missed?

Third, what books are available that discuss the breweries, taverns, etc.
of Germany.  To be honest, I'm really not sure I am up to trying all
1200 breweries in just a week, but I can't find anything beyond a book
on Munich/Munchen breweries.

Sorry about the bandwidth wasted.  Post privately, of course.
- --
Darryl Davidson, davidson at emba.uvm.edu,  University of Vermont.

"Fill with mingled cream and amber, I will dram that glass again,
Such hilarious visions clamber, Through the chamber of my brain--
Quaintest thoughts--queerest fancies, Come to life and fade away;
Who cares how time advances? I am drinking ale today."
        ---Poe  1848


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Date: Thu, 02 Mar 1995 21:57:04 -0500 (EST)
From: CLAY at prism.clemson.edu
Subject: Fiberglass, Orlando


1) I have buiolt storage compartments and livewells for my boat out of 
fiberglass.  Even in our warm temps, and despite the amount of water that
runs through it when operating, my livewell always reeks of resin when I 
open the lid after it's been sitting for a day or two.  Trust me, you 
don't want to make beer in fiberglass anything.  By way of perhaps more
accessible example, go check out newly poured "cultured marble" sink tops
at your local kitchen-and-bath shop.  Many of them are made of the same 
resins.  That distinctive odor is, you guessed it, fiberglass.  Don't ask
what part of it smells - I'm an entomologist; if I'd been smart enough to
be a chemist I'd have retired by now.

2) I'm going to Orlando in April.  Staying at the Marriott near the airport,
helping EPA with a training session.  Brewpub suggestions?  How about one
halfway between Mousetown and Charleston - I'm driving (hate being part of 
4,000 pounds of meat in a steel tube, so I don't fly if I can help it).

Thanks and Regards,
private e-mail, of course,
Cam Lay
CLAY at CLUST1.CLEMSON.EDU

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Date: Thu, 2 Mar 1995 22:37:39 -0500
From: Kaltenbach at aol.com
Subject: FermTemp and refrig temp control


> 
> Date: Tue, 31 Jan 1995 09:57:05 -0600
> From: pmiller at mmm.com (Phil Miller)
> Subject: FermTemp
> 
> I've got a brew fridge which I keep in my garage for fermenting and
> keeping kegs cold.  Since I live in Minnesota (Land of the Lost
> Ice Ages), I actually need to HEAT the fridge for some 5-6 months
> out of the year.  I heat the fridge using a 20 watt light bulb wrapped
> in aluminum foil.
> 
> I used to use a Hunter temperature controller.  When the weather turned
> cold, I simply ran the light bulb all the time and let the Hunter
> control the fridge to bring the temperature down to the proper setting.
> I didn't like this set-up because it's energy wasteful.  (I would
> shudder every time I'd hear the compressor kick on to cool the fridge
> to 45 F even though the ambient temperature in the garage was -10 F...)
> 

    I'm afraid I missed this when it was posted a month ago.  I've 
brewed lagers with the same setup as Phil's with the Hunter temperature 
controller for the garage fridge and a 15-watt light bulb for heat.  It 
worked well, with the fridge turning on for about 5 minutes every 2-3 
hours.  Eventually, however, I came to the same conclusion as Phil:  I 
shouldn't have to run the refrigerator at all when the garage is cold.  
The simplest and cheapest answer to this problem was to build an 
inverter for the Hunter.  This consists of 2 lightweight extension 
cords, a relay, and a small project box.  The relay and project box came 
from Radio Shack, and the extension cords can be obtained inexpensively 
at many places.  My total cost was $12.  By wiring the relay in the 
normally closed configuration, I turned the Hunter from a refrigerator 
controller to a heater (light bulb) controller.  The bulb then cycles on 
and off to maintain the temperature.

    This does not, however, address the main part of Phil's post.  In 
the winter, heating-only is fine, but when springtime comes, you need to 
be able to have both heating and cooling available.  In order to control 
both heating and cooling cycles, you really need two controllers, set at 
slightly different temperatures.  The FermTemp and similar controllers 
simply have a relay in them as described above, so one of two devices 
(heat/cool) is on at any given time.  This means that they will tend to 
fight each other.  Now, I purchased a second Hunter ($25) so that I 
could have the refrigerator go on at 51 deg and the light bulb go off at 
49 degrees.  This should eliminate most of the cycling.  Total cost for 
two controller setup and inverter was $62.  If Phil still owns both a 
FermTemp and a Hunter, he could use the FermTemp as the heating 
controller, and create a similar setup, without spending any more money. 

Tom Kaltenbach
kaltenbach at aol.com


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Date: Fri, 3 Mar 1995 01:44:23 -0500
From: Yeastbud at aol.com
Subject: kettle sight glass source

In HBD #1668 Jeff Berton mentioned  the McMaster- Carr Co. as a source for
kettle sight glasses. Jeff could you please post the address and phone number
for this company? 

Thanks,
Matt Wyss


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Date: Fri, 3 Mar 1995 06:52:59 -0500
From: BrewBeerd at aol.com
Subject: Cornie Poppet Removal

 -=> In HBD 1670, Andrew W. Baucom asks how to remove the poppet from
cornelius fittings.

The poppets in all 9 of my kegs are three-legged, interference-fit. Temove
the fiiting from the keg and stand it, bottom down, on a thick piece of
cardboard (the cardboard is to protect your work surface and the poppet
legs). Use  a thin, round tool (I use an allyn wrench) to push down on the
center of the poppet (from the top) until it pops out. 

To put it back in, use a nut-driver into which the poppet shaft will fit
(ID), but which is small enough to fit within the the interference legs (OD).
Drop the poppet back into the barrel of the fitting, and press it in place
with the nut driver.  

HIH

Patrick (Pat) G. Babcock
usfmchql at ibmmail.com

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Date:          Fri, 3 Mar 1995 05:58:19 +0000
From: "Lee C. Bussy" <leeb at southwind.net>
Subject:       Magnetic stainless, numbers in Guidelines, grammar lessons

Howdy all!  


Kinney was quoting Will Self when I noticed this tidbit:

>will not slide down them to the bottom.  (I even tried pushing a stainless
>steel scrubber into the brew and then moving it around with a strong
>magnet to remove yeast from the shoulders.)  Also I personally feel that

Um.  stainless.  Magnet.  Nope, wasn't stainless.  And since it 
wasn't stainless it's probably a bad idea to add iron to your brew.  

Just as Kinney couldn't let the post go uncommented on the design of 
his creation, I couldn't let it go on that either.

Reminded me of the time I was working for a testing firm in SLC.  I 
was testing a bin of about 2000 parts from one of the aerospace firms 
and they looked like steel, they really did.  Four hours later when I 
brough the magnaflux test report back up to the office I was told of 
my mistake...... by a secretary no less!  No wonder they didn't show 
any flaws!

**************

Domenick and Patrick were speaking of the style guidelines from the 
AHA and ther lack of IBU's and Color.

These are typically on a different page in zymurgy and probably 
didn't get transcribed to the on line version.  They are listed in 
the mag though.

***************

Pierre Jelenc corrected our pronunciation of Iodophors.

How the hell did you know I was mis-pronouncing it??!! :)


- --
 -Lee Bussy          | The 4 Basic Foodgroups....      |
 leeb at southwind.net | Salt, Fat, Beer & Women!        |
 Wichita, Kansas    | http://www.southwind.net/~leeb  |

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Date: Fri, 03 Mar 95 07:26:01 -0500
From: wpbell at emngw1.emn.com (W. Paul Bell)
Subject: RE: Differences between bottles and minikegs

In HBD  #1670, dhthomas at lis.pitt.edu mentioned differences in taste
between portions of a batch placed in bottles versus a minikeg.
I've just tapped a new Party Pig for the first time and have
noticed a similar problem.  The beer is an extract-based Sam
Adams clone and tastes great out of the bottle but has a distinct
metallic taste and after-taste out of the Pig.  I've figured it must
be something I did wrong in setting up the Pig that I'll hopefully
correct next time.  Is this common to Party Pigs/minikegs or
have I managed to get an infection in the Pig?

Any similar experiences from other Pig owners?

Paul Bell
(wpbell at emn.com or WPBell at aol.com)

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Date: Fri, 3 Mar 1995 07:46:47 -0500
From: RWaterfall at aol.com
Subject: Re: Diacetyl Rest

In HBD 1669, Mel Martinez asks:
> this 'rest' is performed by moving the primary, after the
>initial fermentation is over, to a warmer environment for a few days 
>to increase diacetyl (buttery) character.  I have seen this vaguely 
>referenced in several pilsner discussions but have been unable to 
>nail down the exact procedure. (What temp == warmer?  How long?)

>So, have you pilsner experts out there got any tips/info/corrections?

I'm no expert, but a couple of months ago I looked into this for my first
doppelbock.  As I understand it, the primary should be cooled down 10-15F
from its ferm. temp. before racking to secondary.  Then the *secondary* is bro
ught back up to the diacetyl rest temperature for a couple of days.  This
apparently helps the yeast chew up diacetyl quicker and also purges out any
air that might have snuck in during the racking.  Then you ramp down to your
lager temp at about 2F per day.  Sorry about the vagueness but my notes are
at home.  The lager temp schedule I used was derived from an article in the
Zymurgy issue on Traditional Brewing Methods in England, Germany, and USA.
(Special Issue 1993???  I should just keep my notes here at work.)  My
doppelbock is still lagering so I don't have any idea if what I did worked.

Bob Waterfall
Troy, NY, USA (Believe me, I'm not rubbing it in.;-))

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Date: Fri, 3 Mar 1995 09:17:38 +0500 (EST)
From: Edward Bockman <ebock at telerama.lm.com>
Subject: Re: Boiling Clorox


It is important to note that Boiling does not "destroy" the clorox, it 
just drives the Chlorine into the air (be sure you open a window, and 
protect any stainless in your kitchen :>)  Essentially you are distilling 
the Chlorox out of the water.  

In a washing machine, you have an essentially closed system, which keeps 
most of the Chlorine in the machine.  NOTE how aggressive the clorox is to 
your clothes.

Over time, due to the vapor pressure of chlorine, a cold chlorox solution 
will lose its disinfecting power (don't leave the cap off of your bottle).

I'm not sure why you are boiling the clorox, but I wouldn't reccomend it.


Edward Bockman
Applications Engineer
Calgon Carbon Corporation
 

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Date: Fri, 3 Mar 1995 07:34:31 -0700
From: flemingk at usa.net (Kirk R Fleming)
Subject: RE: HBD 1670: Mash Experiments

Rob writes:

>From: Rob Reed <rhreed at icdc.delcoelect.com>
>Subject: Mash Yield/Fermentability Experiments

>Conclusions:
> o In this experiment, a 30 min. rest at 105F was more effective in 
>   increasing yield than a 15 min. 165-170F mashout rest.
> o In this experiment, when a 30 min. rest at 105F was employed, only 
>   a minor increase in yield was obtained with a 15 min. 165-170F
>   mashout rest.  

Why would a mash-out have any effect on yield at all?
Kirk R Fleming
 -flemingkr at afmcfafb.fafb.af.mil
 -BEER: It's not just for breakfast anymore.


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Date: Fri, 3 Mar 1995 09:21:55 -0500
From: fleck at newton.franklincoll.edu
Subject: ESB with a lemony taste

Help! What did I do? I have an ESB that tastes, well, lemony. Here's what
I did:
4# Alexander's pale malt syrup
3# Laaglander light DME
10 oz. 60 lovibond crush crystal
6 oz malto-dextrine
1 3/4 Willamette hops (boil)
1 oz Tettnang (finish)
1 oz Tettnang (dry hop)
1 Tsp. Irish Moss
2 tsp. Gypsum
Wyeast #1098 (British)
3/4 c. corn sugar (priming)

I did the usual steeping of crystals in 160 degree water for 30
minutes and boiled the rest of the stuff for 60 minutes. I pitched the
yeast at 72 degrees and let primary (plastic, closed fermenter) go. The
temp. for primary fermentation hovered between 68 and 70 degrees.
I transferred to secondary (glass) and dry hopped.

I am fairly sure of my sanitation procedures, although I worry about 
fermenting in plastic. It has been bottled for a few weeks and it seems
thin and tastes lemony. Could the temp. of the primary fermentation
have contributed to the lemony flavor? Could I have caused problems in
sloshing the primary into the secondary?
 
Any comments would be helpful. I don't really want another five gallons
of lemon-flavored ESB.

Susie Fleck
fleck at newton.franklincoll.edu

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Date: Fri, 3 Mar 1995 09:38:04 -0500
From: karns1 at hrpi6.DNET.hcc.com
Subject: RE: Boiling Clorox

Kinney Baughman asked a few questions regarding Clorox.  Here
are my two cents.  Clorox is a solution containing a compound
that, when it decomposes to salt, releases Chlorine gas.  I'm
under the impression that it is the chlorine gas which does 
the sterilizing.  So in regards to the boiling of Clorox, the 
boiling causes the compound to decompose quicker than it would
for example in your pool.  The result is the unactive salt and
an environment that has been vigorously bombarded by chlorine
gas.  This makes anything that might have been subjected to the
boiled clorox steril but would also leave the clorox `spent.`
I would think that boiling Clorox would be dangers as chlorine
gas is deadly.  In regards to using Clorox in the hot cycle of 
the washing machine, the temperature there is below boiling.
Your water heater might be set anywhere from 140 to 170 deg.
The rate of chlorine gas liberation would seemingly be less in
your washer than in the boil.  Of course I could be off the
mark on this so if some else knows better about this please
chime in.

Jason Karns
"I'm a perfectionist, some of the time."

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Date: Fri, 03 Mar 1995 08:51:26 -0700 (MST)
From: MATTD at UWYO.EDU
Subject: Thanks

Thanks to everyone who responded about my Bock recipe request and the Anchor
tour I wanted to go on.  I got some really great sounding recipes and also
a spot on an Anchor tour on April 7.
Matt
Mattd at uwyo.edu

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Date: Fri, 3 Mar 95 08:48:29 MST
From: jeff at neocad.com (Jeff Stampes)
Subject: Poppets/Hefe-Weizen


Andrew Baucom asks about removing poppets from pin-cornys...

The first two I tried to recondition I failed at this part.  I tried, and tried,
but couldn't get those buggers off.  Then last time, i used my brain instead
of my brawn (both are in arguably short supply :)  I just filled the keg with
some hot water (to begin the rinsing process), ran hot water over the poppets
for a while, then called int he brawn and the channel-locks pliers, and off they
came.

Thanks to EVERYONE who took the time to send me advice on brewing my
dream hefe-weizen!  The response was overwhelming.  Ok, so I was under the
false assumption that it was a Lager yeast...And Decoction is the way to
go...and I should stick with 2-row/wheat and avoid the 6-row...and I
should pick up Warner's book.....Mayhaps I was jumping into this with
exactly NO idea what I was doing?  I'll be continuing research and brewing
in a few weeks.  Thanks again to all!

- -- Jeff Stampes -- NeoCAD, Inc. -- Boulder, CO -- jeff at neocad.com    --
- -- Ultimate Frisbee...It's not just for dogs anymore.                -- 
- -- Any fool can make bread out of grain...God intended it for beer!  --

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Date: Fri,  3 Mar 95 11:11:41 -0500
From: Matthew Howell <howell at ll.mit.edu>
Subject: break material & hydrometer readings

          I seem to remember reading in this forum a discussion of
          whether suspended break material would affect a hydrometer
          reading.  Would someone be kind enough to direct me to the
          appropriate back issue, or maybe recap any conclusions that
          were reached?  Thanks.

               Matt Howell
               howell at ll.mit.edu


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Date: 3 Mar 1995 09:14:35 U
From: "Palmer.John" <palmer at ssdgwy.mdc.com>
Subject: TSP and Copper

Pat asked:
>Will TSP (Na3PO4) react with copper?

Well, a quick check of the Metals Handbook said that Copper vs Sodium Phosphate
is rated as Excellent. In other words, copper is not corroded at all. 
I am assuming that TriSodium Phosphate and Sodium Phosphate are the same thing.
(because Sodium is +1 and Phosphate is -3)

John J. Palmer - Metallurgist for MDA-SSD M&P
johnj at primenet.com  Huntington Beach, California
Palmer House Brewery and Smithy - www.primenet.com/~johnj/
(lots of brewing stuff)

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Date: Fri, 3 Mar 95 12:20:10 -0500
From: Philip DiFalco <sxupjd at aikman.fnma.COM>
Subject: pico-Brewing Systems' "Pump Unit"


I'm planning on buying a pico-Brewing Systems' "Pump, Hose & Sparge Head System"
I'd be interested in hearing from anyone with experience with that system.
Is it worth it, has it lasted, does it work well, etc.

Thanks.

- ---
Philip DiFalco, sxupjd at fnma.com
FannieMae, 3900 Wisconsin Ave., NW, Washington, DC 20016
1-202-752-2812; 1-800-SKY-FNMA (PIN#471-1735)

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Date: 03 Mar 95 12:52:51 EST
From: Karen Barela/AHA President <75250.1350 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Mississippi 

Unfortunately, the Bill that was introduced in Mississippi to make homebrewing
statutorily recognized did not go through.

The AHA worked closely with several AHA members in the state and several state
Representatives who were supporting the bill.  We will all try again to get the
bill introduced into next years legislative session.

 - Karen



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Date: Fri, 03 Mar 1995 13:10:31 EST
From: uswlsrap at ibmmail.com
Subject: SA: Ales v. lagers                                               


I got my quarterly SA ad in the mail yesterday, and the front page article
seeks to set people straight on the difference between ales and lagers.

"Even in today's enlightened age, there are quite a few taste-impaired beer
drinkers for whom the _lager_ and _ale_ styles are synonymous--one generic
foamy gulp.

"Most of the rest of us know the general characteristics of each style....

"The differences begin at brew time.  ...is defined by the yeast used in the
brew and the temperature of fermentation....

You get the idea.

BUT THE PHOTO FOR THIS SAME ARTICLE shows four tasty-looking pints.  The
cutline explains that "The Samuel Adams family of beer includes both lagers
and ales in abundant variety.  The year-round brews include, from left:
Cream Stout, a malty, chocolatey lager....
                                 |||||

I'm glad they know their styles so well :-)  It does explain, though, why their
"stout" is so uninteresting.  I suppose to be true to style, they'd have to use
the word "bitter" and that wouldn't make good ad copy.  But why "chocolatey"
instead of "roasty" or "coffeelike" if they wanted to describe a stout (albeit
not _their_ stout)?

If I'm going to drink a SA beer, give me a "Boston Ale" or maybe a doppelbock.
Forget about the others.

Now go have a beer,

Bob Paolino / Disoriented in Badgerspace / uswlsrap at ibmmail.com
"If I could see...if I could See all the symbols, unlock what
they mean, Maybe I could, maybe I could, maybe I Could meet the
artists, and get to know them personally."-Those crazy WPG boys

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Date: Fri, 3 Mar 1995 14:07:20 -0500
From: ecklund at tcpcs3.dnet.etn.com
Subject: pH Meters

I'm in the market for a pH meter and was considering purchasing one that 
is manufactured by Cole-Parmer (Model #WD0062400).  This unit has an LCD
display and can be calibrated to read within +/- .2 pH accuracy.  It's hand
held and at face value would seem to be quite convenient to use.
I was wondering if anyone else out in HBDland has one of these units
or may have used one.  If this is the case, I was hoping that they might
give me their thoughts on using this model in the brew process.  $40.00+ 
dollars is more than I want to spend on something that would prove to be
inadequate later.
Private E-Mail is fine.
TIA,
Bill Ecklund 


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Date: Fri, 03 Mar 95 14:11:43 EST
From: dweller at GVSU.EDU (RONALD DWELLE)
Subject: trub-sitting/brown stains/coyote

     Four items:
     
     1. Regarding Kinney's post on trub-sitting--my local fellow brewers 
     frequently identify a "house-taste" in my homebrew. The most sensitive 
     nose/mouth fellow among them identifies it as a "waxy" taste. The 
     taste is pretty much hidden in the heavier stuff (porters/stouts) and 
     most noticeable (but not really objectionable) in the lightest ales 
     I've made. I can tell that this peculiar taste is there and I actually 
     like the taste, so I don't worry about it much. But in trying to 
     trouble-shoot it, I've mostly wondered if the "house-taste" doesn't 
     come from the fact that I always always brew in the primary fermenter 
     only. I haven't racked to a secondary in the last 40 batches. So the 
     "sitting on the trub" is the ONLY common element I've been able to 
     find to account for this taste.  Am I way off, here?
     
     2. Last fall, I asked about avoiding brown stains/scorches on my gas 
     stove top and got lots of suggestions and tried most. One was to use 
     the old boy-scout open campfire trick of soaping up the kettle, only 
     soaping up the stove top. It worked okay with "Dawn"--good enough that 
     it was my "standard" practice for a few brewdays. But then, I was out 
     of Dawn, so I used some "Soft-Scrub With Bleach." Amazingly good! 500% 
     better than Dawn. Don't know why. And it's not from "scrubbing" with 
     the grit in Soft-Scrub--I just wipe it on before starting the mash (I 
     use a Schmidling-esque kettle method) and wipe it off after the boil. 
     TRY IT!
     
     3. Someone asked about brown stains on the ceiling. I'm afraid it's 
     from boiling wort. I always get the brown stains and they run down the 
     plastered ceiling of the stairway to my basement, which opens off the 
     kitchen right next to the stove. Depending on the humidity of the day 
     and the length of my boil, I can predict how bad the brown stains will 
     be. Fortunately, we have a wood-burner in the basement so I can say to 
     my dear one, "Gee, the wood-burner seems to be smoking a lot," and so 
     far she hasn't thrown me out of the kitchen.
     
     4. Where's the Coyote?
     
     Cheers,

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Date: Fri, 3 Mar 95 14:17:20 EST
From: djfitzg at VNET.IBM.COM
Subject: cookers

 I am searching upstate New York looking for an outdoor cooker for brewing. I
have seen posts in the past which have extolled the virtues of different
brands, such as king kooker, camp chef, and metal fusion. If anyone out there
has address/phone numbers of suppliers willing to do mail order on a new cooker
I would appreciate it. I am finding most large dept stores dont stock these
items during winter up here.

thanks again for the help.
Dan Fitzgerald djfitzg at vnet.ibm.com

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Date: Fri, 3 Mar 1995 11:19:02 -0800
From: nic at analogy.com (Nic Herriges)
Subject: Re:Brown Scum

Miles in the Maritimes writes:
>     Eamonn make a remark about the brown scum on the wall. Well I hate to
>     admit it but my wife is right, it is from the beer. Now I don't know
>     what it is! I don't think it is sugar,

My guess is that it is wort (sugar, hops and all).  As the wort boils,
small amounts are cast adrift in the air of your kitchen.  I don't know if
you've seen ultra-slow motion films of bubbles bursting but they break into
_very_ small droplets and these droplets can be propelled off at high
velocities.  They are so small that they can drift pretty far on just
normal air currents. Most of them get sucked up your oven hood but some
escape.  When they hit your kitchen wall, they stick.  Over time they build
up to a noticeable amount.  A similar phenomenom occurs when you cook with
oil or grease.  Of course, this is all just speculation (I haven't done any
ultra-slow motion tracking of boiling wort and drifting droplets) but it
seems to make intuitive sense.

Nic Herriges
nic at analogy.com
Portland, OR



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Date: Fri, 3 Mar 95 15:37:10 -0500
From: "Todd Orjala" <t-orja at maroon.tc.umn.edu>
Subject: Superb burners

Michael G. Lloyd inquired about Superb gas burners in HBD 1663.
I have been using one for about 18 months and am very satisfied.
I hooked it up to the natural gas line in my basement and installed
a cheap range hood from the floor (ceiling) joists to vent the 
steam out the laundry vent. I make sure that I have adequate cross 
ventilation.

It is true (if I recall the specs that came with the stove) that
it generates "only" 35,000 BTUs, but I find it to be more than
adequate for doing 8-10 gallon boils. 

I have not used a "Cajun cooker" or similar stoves but understand
that they work something like a torch or a jet engine. The Superb
has dozens of small holes and is really a large diameter version
of a typical gas range. The flame is easy to control and evenly
distributed. In fact, I use it to stir fry, something  which really 
is not possible in the true sense of the term on a conventional 
household range. Since I use natural gas rather than propane, I 
readily monitor its efficiency since I also use gas for
the furnace (not insignificant usage in these parts), hot water,
and dryer.

They are distributed by at least two homebrew suppliers here in the
Minneapolis/St. Paul area and I am told that they have been selling
well to satisfied customers.

Regards,
Todd Orjala


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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1672, 03/06/95