FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  request (M_BOGGS)
  Good BEER places in Portland OR... (Andrew Patrick)
  malt wholesalers (Lenny Garfinkel)
  coleman cooler (abaucom)
  Judge exam ("Ginger Wotring, Pharm/Phys")
  Fermenter Questions (Steve Peters (919) 405-3678)
  minikeg cartridges (George Danz 919-405-3632)
  BBC Triple Bock (Todd Hardin)
  fermenter build your own (MicahM1269)
  Re:  DME vs Syrup (Allan Rubinoff)
  Results of Priming w/ sugar vs DME (Joseph_Fleming_at_GSA-2P__2)
  Beer down-under (RONALD DWELLE)
  California Brewin' (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  Boston Beer Ships again (Tom Clifton)
  glycogyn (Jim Busch)
  CARBONATOR (TM) (Charles Wettergreen)
  Re:Wit, the offering (Kelly Jones)
  Lagering Questions (c-amb)
  long fermentation (noon)
  Re. Flat Beer (molloy)
  Brewferm kits/Spring Street Brewing (CGEDEN)
  ideal pitching time (George Danz 919-405-3632)
  Septic and Bleach/Where's the Beer in Utah? (freigang)
  Re: Botulism discussion (Bill Vaughan)
  Re: Nut brown ale (pet peeve) (Bill Vaughan)
  The Fermentap review (Bob Christopher)
  Thermal properties of wort and beer ???? (Joe Tristano)
  Re: Teel Pumps (TomF775202)



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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Mon, 13 Mar 1995 21:42:36 -0500 (EST)
From: M_BOGGS at delphi.com
Subject: request


Please include me on your mailing lis.... my address is  m_boggs at delphi.com


cheers


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Date: Tue, 14 Mar 1995 02:39:15 -0600 (CST)
From: Andrew Patrick <andnator at mcs.com>
Subject: Good BEER places in Portland OR...

Hmmm... folks are talking about where to find good beer in Portland... 
why is it that *I* get flamed when I bring up such matters, but 
"Badgericious Bob" gets away with impunity??

After all, this is the HomeBREW Digest, right, Jeff Frane?!  What's all 
this talk about _beer_appreciation_ doing here, then?!  ;^D

If you are in Portland, go to Produce Row Cafe'.  It's _the_best_! On the 
East side of the river (just barely).

Andrew Patrick, Brewmaster, Harlem Brewing Co, Inc.
Certified Beer Judge; Founder, HomeBrew U BBS Network:
Chicago 708-705-7263 , Houston 713-923-6418, Milwaukee 414-238-9074

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Date: Tue, 14 Mar 1995 13:32:43 +0200 (IST)
From: Lenny Garfinkel <lenny at zeus.datasrv.co.il>
Subject: malt wholesalers

Could anyone e-mail to me the names and addresses of major wholesalers of 
malted barley in the US and Europe.  TIA

Lenny Garfinkel

_________________________________________________________________
Dr. Leonard Garfinkel       | Internet:  lenny at zeus.datasrv.co.il
Bio-Technology General      | Office Phone: 972-8-381256     
Kiryat Weizmann             | Home Phone:   972-8-451505
Rehovot, Israel             | FAX:          972-8-409041
- -----------------------------------------------------------------


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Date: Tue, 14 Mar 95 7:35:34 EST
From: abaucom at fester.swales.com
Subject: coleman cooler


The Superior Restaraunt Supply Co.  has a Coleman 10 gallon Water Cooler for
$35.  Does anyone know if this is sufficient for a mashing vessel?

It looks like an insulated cooler with lid and faucet in the picture...I just
thought they cost more than 35. 

TIA,
 -Andrew

- ------
Andrew W. Baucom, abaucom at fester.swales.com

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Date: Tue, 14 Mar 1995 07:07:21 -0600 (CST)
From: "Ginger Wotring, Pharm/Phys" <WOTRING at SLUVCA.SLU.EDU>
Subject: Judge exam


The BJCP exam is being given in O'Fallon, IL (just outside St. Louis)
on 1 April. We have about 10 people signed up, and we have room for
more. We have been assured by both James Spence and Pat Baker that these
exams will be graded just as they always been; the current fray will
have no impact. If you are interested in joining us, please contact me. 

- --
Ginger Wotring, St. Louis Brews
internet: wotring at sluvca.slu.edu


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Date: Tue, 14 Mar 95 08:24:36 EST
From: peters at rastaban.rtp.semi.harris.com (Steve Peters (919) 405-3678)
Subject: Fermenter Questions


>In #1667, while exploring fermenter design, Will Self mentions problems
>getting sediment out of an inverted carboy while using the Brewcap:

Here's a tip:  Incorporate a lazy susan bearing into your inverted carboy
stand.  My stand holds 4 carboys, is built of 2X4s and the carboy gets 
inverted into the stand so that the neck of the carboy rests on the bearing.
This makes it really easy to rotate the carboy back and forth so that the
sediments break off the neck and fall into the cap.  I think I've seen
the inventor (don't recall his name) post, saying that the carboy should
get a daily twist.  I have found that I can be quite lazy about this and
still bet the carboy clean long before keg time.  I usually twist 'em
up early in the primary ferment in order to remove break, then wait for
secondary before removing the bulk of spent yeast.   I also let each batch
sit on the rack for 4 weeks (the length of time before I need the fermenter
again) before draining them into the kegs.  Most folks don't seem to like
the brewcap, since you seem to have to fiddle with them often in order
to get the sediment out.  I still prefer this method since it means I don't
have to rack.

Steve Peters (peters at rtp.semi.harris.com)

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Date: Tue, 14 Mar 1995 08:47:56 -0500
From: danz at rtp.semi.harris.com (George Danz 919-405-3632)
Subject: minikeg cartridges

Curt,

I posted a long time ago to the Brewdigest why there is a problem with the
8g vs 16 g. cartridges.  The 16g. cartridges have a very well controlled 
"depth" measurement of the seal from the mouth to the seal surface which allows
the mouth to seal with the rubber stop inside the tap BEFORE the needle
punctures the seal.  On those cheap (usually grey colored) 8g. units, the seal
depth in relatio to the cartridge mouth is poorly controlled and usually too
shallow, allowing the needle to puncture the seal in the cartridge BEFORE
the cartridge mouth makes a seal with the rubber gasket inside the tap.

QED

- ------
            "Life's too short to drink cheap beer"

George E. Danz
danz at rtp.semi.harris.com
(919)405-3632
(919)405-3651 FAX


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Date: Tue, 14 Mar 1995 09:01:28 -0500
From: thardin at dxi.nih.gov (Todd Hardin)
Subject: BBC Triple Bock

If anyone in the Maryland/DC area is still interested in Sam Adams Triple
Bock, I was at a rather out-of-the-way party store last weekend  on the
Chesapeake Bay.  They were selling Triple Bock for a little less than
$5/bottle.  It seemed that they had at least half a case.  If you're
interested, private e-mail me, and I'll send directions to the place.




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Date: Tue, 14 Mar 1995 09:12:41 -0500
From: MicahM1269 at aol.com
Subject: fermenter build your own

I noticed a post about the construction of SS cone bottom fermenters for
homebrew use.
I have built several of these from SS kegs in the past. It is very simple to
do. By using the keg in
the inverted position you get a dome ( rather than cone ) bottomed fermenter.
Remove the sanke
probe from the keg and replace with a 2 in clamp end ferrell ( so you clamp
on a butterfly valve
and stand pipe for racking) weld a 4-5 in clamp end ferrell to the ( now) top
end of the keg for an
easy , arm thru sized cleaning port. Add three legs ( 3 pts make a plain )
and you have a
fermenter.
BTW Jim Hunter and myself were/are putting together a detailed article on how
to do this and
other fun, but haven't gotten to yet.
If there is interest I can get more detailed.
micah millspaw

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Date: Tue, 14 Mar 95 09:19:50 EST
From: Allan Rubinoff <rubinoff at BBN.COM>
Subject: Re:  DME vs Syrup

In HBD #1679, Al Korzonas writes:

>With time (several months), syrup tends to get darker and take on
>oxidized flavours.  I have not noticed any degredation with DME, so
>perhaps it is more stable?

Both Miller and Papazian have commented on this phenomenon, and I've
observed it myself.  I've come to the conclusion that DME is usually a
better choice than extract syrup.  Syrup is fine if it's fresh, but how
can you know this before you open the can?  Some syrups have a "Use By"
date stamped on them, but I don't find that very reliable.

Is it true, though, that DME doesn't degrade over time?  This is an
important issue if you buy large quantities of DME.  I know that DME
will harden unless kept very dry, but does this affect the resulting
beer?  Also, does anybody know *why* syrup degrades and DME doesn't?  

Thanks,

Allan Rubinoff  <rubinoff at bbn.com>



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Date: Tue, 14 Mar 95 09:20:43 EST
From: Joseph_Fleming_at_GSA-2P__2 at ccgate1.gsa.gov
Subject: Results of Priming w/ sugar vs DME

     The results are in for the sugar vs DME priming debate.
  
     Using sugar is regarded as easier (no preparation), cheaper, and 
  faster ferment time.
     DME requires a preparation (note Al's HDB 1676 post recommending a 
  wort-like prep - boil, chill, filter - failure to do this may result in 
  protein in suspension, around the bottle neck, ect.), is not all 
  fermentable, takes longer to ferment (brand-dependent based on malt 
  composition), may even contain sugar (again, brand-dependent; not an 
  issue unless you were trying to avoid sugar).
  
     There is some split about the priming method's contribution to flavor. 
   
  One camp cites the ratios involved and that the small amount of priming 
  sugar cannot be detected.  Others say that different brands of DME will 
  contribute different unfermentables that _can_ be detected.  There is a 
  further subdivision here as to whether this is good or bad, the effects 
  being described as both off-flavors and increased body and maltiness.
     OK, so maybe the results _aren't_ in.  Based on this input I would use 
  sugar (inexpensive and simple perks every homebrewer's ears up) on 
  lighter beers where malt contribution might interfere with the taste you 
  worked so hard to craft - unless you are brewing a beer you would like to 
  hold up as all-malt.  Darker, heavier beers might not be influenced by 
  the priming method.  It didn't seem anyone was adamant about sugar 
  providing a negative effect such as when pounds of it are used in the 
  wort.
     Thanks for everyone's contribution.
  
                         Joe  -  JOSEPH.FLEMING at GSA.GOV


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Date: Tue, 14 Mar 95 10:06:25 EST
From: dweller at GVSU.EDU (RONALD DWELLE)
Subject: Beer down-under

For those who follow the less-than-mainstream sports, did you catch
the footage of the latest from the America's Cup races?  It seems the main
contender from this part of the world, oneAustralia, ran into a bit o'
nasty weather 7 miles off San Diego.  The yacht spilt open in the middle
and sank in less than 90 seconds (sorry, no floating sailor-based fishbait
resulted). 

The following day, a full page add appeared in the New Zealand
newspapers (they are the arch rivals of Australia; kinda like New York
and New Jersey, the British and the French, California and the rest of
the world, etc.).  The add said:

                        "Bad luck Australia.
                Try sinking one of these instead"

Then a picture of a bottle of Steinlager, the main exported beer from NZ.
The tag line at the end said:

"Steinlager.  The only thing that goes down faster than an Australian yacht."


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Date: 14 Mar 95 09:16:00 -0600
From: korz at iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: California Brewin'

A post that appeared yesterday from a Califonian brewer who said that he
was taking some heat for using water for cooling wort (he said he was
saving the cooling water for the next batch in response, or something like
that).  In any event, this got me thinking... those poor Californians...
either it's not enough rain or too much.  The news shows out here on the
third coast are probably showing the worst of the worst scenes.  I have
heard, however, that the Pres has declared all of California a disaster area.

How extensive is the flooding?  Is it pretty bad in most places or just
really bad in a few?  Are a lot of our fellow brewers impacted?

I suppose a short report from the left coast might be of general interest,
but if you have volumes to report, I imagine that private email would be
better.

Al.

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Date: Tue, 14 Mar 95 10:14 EST
From: Tom Clifton <0002419419 at mcimail.com>
Subject: Boston Beer Ships again

Back on December 8 (1994) I dutifully sent a check for $12 to the Boston
Beer Company and after three months of waiting several interesting things
have happened.

1)  My mailbox has suddenly been flooded with beer related junk mail

2)  The check cleared on March 6, 1995

3)  The postman delivered a mylar/foil packet yesterday that has a label
    as below:

************************************************************************

    CHOICEST HALLERTAU MITTELFRUEH HOPS                   crop 1993
    approx 400 grams                                      pellets type 90

   
             analyses:  RESINS
                        ALPHA ACID%, (HPLC):  4.7
                        BETA ACID%,  (HPLC)   3.9
    --------------
    |insert Sam's|      TOTAL OIL & OIL COMPOSITION
    |picture here|
    |            |      TOTAL OIL            0.80 ml/100 grams
    |            |      
    |------------|      MYRCENE              190  
                        FARNESENE              0
                        HUMULENE             280
                        CARYOPHYLENE         100

    (hydrocarbons reported in milligrams per 100 grams, as is)

    JON. BARTH & SOHN, HOPPENHANDEL, NURNBERG
    HOPS SELECTED FOR SAMUEL ADAMS BOSTON LAGER
    BOSTON BEER COMPANY

****************************************************************************

I'm tempted to try it again - this time I'm going to change my middle initial
and see how much more junk mail I receive.  Yes - you can buy hops for less
but if nothing else it has been entertaining.  If anybody else wants to try
this (under an assumed name, of course)  send $12.00 to:

Noble Hops
Boston Beer Company
30 Germania Street
Boston, MA.  02130

If you want to see if the program is still runningm call at (617)522-3400.  And
do expect the check to take 90 days to clear the bank, and by all means plan on
brewing beer with some other hops or plan on being mighty thirsty for the next
three months.

Tom Clifton
St. Louis, MO.



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Date: Tue, 14 Mar 1995 11:04:43 -0500 (EST)
From: Jim Busch <busch at eosdev2.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: glycogyn

Don and Al write:

<Don writes:
>True.  Thanks, also, for the references on yeast metabolism.  
>The reason I use the method outlined above is that by waiting 
>for the yeast to fall (AFTER high krausen), I have hopefully 
>built up large glycogen reserves in the yeast population.  I 
>then decant the spent wort, pitch a pint of fresh wort, aerate, and 
>pitch at high krausen.  This has the benefit of maximizing 
>yeast glycogen reserves, and pithing during the exponential 
>growth phase, which reduces lag times AND produces a healthy 
>and vigourous ferment.  This is the same technique I used in the 
>bio-tech lab for yeast and E. Coli cultures in my previous life as a 
>gene cloner.  It works.

<It works and it makes fine beer, but I still contend that it may not
<be the ideal pitching timing.  When you waited for the yeast to fall,
<you did in fact get them to a pretty high glycogen level.  However,
<by adding fresh wort, you are restarting their cycle and the first
<thing that yeast do when they discover fresh food is to reproduce.
<I believe that for the first two (check this) hours of respiration,
<the yeast do not eat the new sugar that is in their environment, but
<rather use their glycogen reserves up.  They then begin eating the
<sugar in their environment.  When this environmental sugar begins to
<be depleated, they start to replenish their glycogen stores.  By adding
<the new wort and waiting for high kraeusen, you are pitching the yeast
<at their lowest glycogen levels despite the fact that they were at
<high levels *before* you added the second feeding to the starter.

Don's technique is less than optimal because he aeriates the starter
after it has become stationary and has been fed wort.  The missing
part of this discussion is the influence of oxygen on the process.  
When oxygen is available in fresh wort, the yeasts will actively 
respire this, using the glycogyn stores to drive sterol and unsaturated
fatty acid synthesis.  This will indeed occur in the first two hours or
so after pitching, and the glycogyn stores will be reduced from aound
40% of the cells dry weight to about 5%.  Sterols and fatty acids are
critical for healthy cell membranes, and thus the effective transport
of wort carbohydrates into the cell.  Pitching yeast of low glycogyn
levels can result in poor flocculation, slow attenuation, and elevated
levels of diacetyl and DMS.  

And from: Practical Yeast Management, Dr. Paul Monk

"Yeast pitched into aerated wort consumes the oxygen and disseminates
glycogen in the cell.  This is accompanied by the formation of key lipids,
namely sterols and unsaturated fatty acids.  Very little wort sugar is used
during the lag phase, yeast reserve materials being the principal source
of energy for cellular organization and metabolism."

"The yeast pitched should be cells in the stationary phase, which have the
maximum content of reserve polysaccharide glycogen."

Much of this reference material was posted my Mike Sharp awhile back.  Thanks
Mike!


Jim Busch

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Date: Tue, 14 Mar 95 11:07 CST
From: chuckmw at mcs.com (Charles Wettergreen)
Subject: CARBONATOR (TM)          

To: homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com

HBD'ers
Bob Christopher extolled the virtues of the Carbonater (TM), but there is 
another use to which it can be put. I have been told that it perfectly fits
where the gas cartridge screws onto the dispenser for 5L mini-kegs. This means 
that you can carbonate and dispense beer from your mini-kegs without spending
a fortune on little gas cartridges.

Chuck

/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*
   Chuck Wettergreen    One beer at a sitting is OK. Two beers, maybe.
   Chuckmw at mcs.com      But anything beyond that number goes over the
   Geneva, Illinois     line of recreational drinking.  Ann Landers
/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/**/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/**/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*

 * RM 1.3 00946 * 
 

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Date: Tue, 14 Mar 1995 10:29:07 -0700
From: k-jones at ee.utah.edu (Kelly Jones)
Subject: Re:Wit, the offering

Jim Busch had some interesting comments about the lawyers/marketeers
selling "Wit!" beer and stock.  I'll toss in one more item, reported in the
last Celebrator.  It appears that the BATF has allowed this company to
trademark the term "Wit", meaning from now on, only these folks will be
able to use this term on their beers.  Unfortunately, "Wit" is a generic
style descriptor, like "Lager", "Stout", or "Porter".  Yep, shades of Jim
Koch, all right.

It's a sad day when a brewery cannot depend on the quality of their own
product to ensure sales, but instead must rely upon legal maneuvering and
hoky marketing techniques to suppress/restrain other brewers.

Support brewers who brew good beer, not businessmen/lawyers who will do
anything for a buck.

Kelly





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Date: Mon, 13 Mar 95 14:13:56 +0700
From: c-amb at math.utah.edu
Subject: Lagering Questions

I am currently lagering 10 gallons of Helles Bock and started to think
(always a bad sign :)  WRT the flavor conditioning which occurs during
lagering, what effect does a sealed vessel have on the time required?
A customer recently brought up that when he lagers in corny kegs he purges
the headspace once a day or so.  He belives that by doing so the flavor
conditioning time is drastically reduced.  This makes sense to me.  Has 
anyone done any testing on this?
 
Secondly, how important are the cold temps for conditioning?  I know that
they are important for clarification; however, are they necessary for the
flavor profile as well?  It would seem that by aging the beer properly you 
might be able to achieve the necessary smooth flavor without the cold
conditioning.  Perhaps the time needed would even be reduced.  I know that
this would not eliminate the chill haze; however, lets ignore that for the 
moment.   

If I am way off base on these ideas keep in mind that I am a certified Ale 
Geek and have brewed very few lagers.  I have, however, followed the 
recommended methods for them.  I am now looking for ways to reduce the 
fridge space needed for lagering in order to increase my lager output.

On the subject of Beer Engines, some people are confused about what constitutes
a Beer Engine.  The pseudo beer engine in Zymurgy is simply a sprinkler 
faucet.  It is missing the pump necessary to be a true Beer Engine.
I am looking to buy or build the entire pump & tap assembly. 

Thanks,
Mark Alston


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Date: Tue, 14 Mar 1995 14:17:52 EST
From: noon at hawk.uicc.com
Subject: long fermentation

Hi, I'm new to homebrewing (only 3 batches) and need some advice.  I recently
brewed the following extract recipe:

3.3# John Bull unhopped amber malt extract
2# M&F amber dried malt extract
0.5# crushed crystal malt
1 oz. chinook hops (boil)
1 oz. fuggles hops (boil)
1 oz. fuggles
M&F ale yeast

After boiling, I cooled the wort & pitched the yeast.  In about 24 hrs. I had
alot of airlock activity (room temp ~70 F).  The activity lasted about 24 hrs.
and then stopped.  I waited a week, racked to a glass carboy & moved it to the
basement, room temp ~65 F.  After about 2 days, I checked the carboy & noticed
the airlock was bubbling again, 2-3/min.  This lasted about 4 weeks.  I waited
a week after the bubbling stopped & bottled.  My question is: is this secondary
activity normal?  Could I have bottled sooner or would I have gotten overcarb.
bottles? 

The SG when I pitched was 1.040, it had dropped to 1.015 when I racked and
1.006 when I bottled.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Jim


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Date: Tue, 14 Mar 1995 14:34:10 -0500
From: molloy at tcpcs3.dnet.etn.com
Subject: Re. Flat Beer

 This subject seems to be around every corner I turn, and has, or will 
hapen to all of us sooner or later. My brewing consistancy is very
poor, I allways try something new. My last batch I primed with honey
and it carbed in 6 days, before that flat in 2 weeks, so let me get to
the point.
 This is what I do now, (Ales Only) Carb. at above 70 deg. F., open one
beer every 5 days to check carb, only when the beer is "slightly" over
carbed will I refridgerate because the beer will loose some carb. when
chilled.
 Once when I chilled a batch and lost carb. I removed the beer from the fridg.
(Net. advice, thanks) warmed it up, and shook the bottles slightly. The carb.
was fine in 10 days. If your beer has good carb. but looses some overnight
in the fridge, do a quick chill in the freezer 20min, the carb will remain
in the beer. Dont't make beer-sickles.

 The reason I chill all my beer is that I had a nasty, one time. The beer
was ok to drink for 5 days and then turned baaad (glass grenades) chilling
might have suspended spoilage. I know some to store beer at 60 F for a year
or more, but I am reluctant to try this.


On the NET I Taketh more then I Recieveth, so I hope this helps someone.

 P. Molloy 
the Zoo.

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Date:         Tue, 14 Mar 95 15:50:10 EST
From: CGEDEN at NERVM.NERDC.UFL.EDU
Subject:      Brewferm kits/Spring Street Brewing

Bob Bloodworth asks about Brewferm kits...
     In my limited experience (caution: I am an extract brewer <insert photo
of brewer cringing with shame>) the Brewferm kits make a very nice product.
A friend made the Kriek following label directions and it was excellent.  I
have a Framboise that has been in the bottle for only a week so its still
rather green.  Still it has a very nice clean palate and assertive fruit
flavor.  It does not have the sourness of a Lambic though.  I like these
products and would love to hear what others have experienced, especially
with the Triple and Auld Brun.

By the time this gets posted we may all be tired of the Spring Street thread,
but FWIW their phone no. is 212-226-9110.  Before you get too excited about
investing, you should call to see if they are registered to sell shares in
your state.  We can't buy them here in Florida, and my father can't buy them
by proxy in Massachusetts.  It turns out that they are only registered to sell
shares in about 13 states.  We Floridians won't be tasting any of their product
soon either, thanks to our state's *stupid* requirement that any beer sold in
the state has to have special caps with the word Florida on them.  This is just
enough of an extra pain in the neck to keep out many small breweries' products.
At least we can brew our own.

Chris Geden
Brewer, Entomologist
Gainesville, FL

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Date: Tue, 14 Mar 1995 17:19:35 -0500
From: danz at rtp.semi.harris.com (George Danz 919-405-3632)
Subject: ideal pitching time

>From the question and the answer, I'm not sure I understand what
the conclusion is.  Al says the yeast glycogen levels are at lowest
at high kreusen, and Don, you say; "I have hopefully 
built up large glycogen reserves in the yeast population." It seems
you both don't agree.  What is the latest wisdom?



>Don writes:
>>4)  Pitch at high krausen.  While building up starters, I 
>>usually wait until the yeast fall and fermentation stops.  Then 
>>I decant off the spent wort and add fresh wort, aerating 
>>vigorously.  After the 1/2 gallon starter falls (about a day or 
>>two before brew day), I decant again and add a pint or two of 
>>fresh wort and aerate like hell.  On brew day, this starter is 
>>at high krausen, in exponential growth phase, an ideal 
>>condition for pitching yeast.

Al responds:
>Common wisdom and most (all?) homebrewing texts notwithstanding,
>the ideal timing for pitching yeast is NOT at high kraeusen.  High
>kraeusen is the time at which the yeast glycogen levels are at their
>lowest.  While pitching at high kraeusen may result in the shortest
>lag time, isn't what we actually want is the healthiest ferment?

True.  Thanks, also, for the references on yeast metabolism.  
The reason I use the method outlined above is that by waiting 
for the yeast to fall (AFTER high krausen), I have hopefully 
built up large glycogen reserves in the yeast population.  I 
then decant the spent wort, pitch a pint of fresh wort, aerate, and 
pitch at high krausen.  This has the benefit of maximizing 
yeast glycogen reserves, and pithing during the exponential 
growth phase, which reduces lag times AND produces a healthy 
and vigourous ferment.  This is the same technique I used in the 
bio-tech lab for yeast and E. Coli cultures in my previous life as a 
gene cloner.  It works.

Don Rudolph
drudolph at ix.netcom.com
Seattle, WA
- ------
            "Life's too short to drink cheap beer"

George E. Danz
danz at rtp.semi.harris.com
(919)405-3632
(919)405-3651 FAX


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Date: Tue, 14 Mar 1995 18:21:23 -0500
From: freigang at tcpcs2.dnet.etn.com
Subject: Septic and Bleach/Where's the Beer in Utah?

The recent posts on yeast in septic systems have led me to ask a related
question.  What kind of damage is being done to the bacterial colonies busily
disposing of my household wastes, when I dump sanitizing (bleach and water) 
solutions down the drain?  Am I killing enough of them off that there
will be septic problems in the future?  Should I be adding something to the
system to compensate? or should I just relax and have a homebrew?

On a totally unrelated subject, I am taking a trip to Park City, Utah the 
end of the month and want to know if it is possible to find any good local 
brew and/or pubs in the area.

TIA, for your information!

ARF
Good Brew in the Zoo


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Date: Tue, 14 Mar 1995 15:35:45 -0800
From: bill at oilsystems.com (Bill Vaughan)
Subject: Re: Botulism discussion

Tom Fitzpatrick writes:
>What do you do with your canned wort? Do you open it up and drink it??
>No, you pitch yeast into it and ferment it into "beer", at which time
>there will no longer be ANY human pathogens alive. An infected starter wort
>will make a bad beer but nobody is going to DIE.

The issue here isn't pathogens, but toxins.  Clearly the oxygen will kill
any c. botulinus in the starter -- but will the oxygen, the yeast, the
alcohol or the pH denature any remaining botulism toxin?  If so, we are all
safe (as long as we don't open up our canned wort and drink it).

BTW, what is the actual genesis of the assertion "no human pathogens can
survive in beer?"  I first read it in one of Charlie P's books; I wouldn't
consider that a reliable source.

Pathologists & toxicologists' comments welcome.

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Bill Vaughan                                       Software Engineer |
| bill at oilsystems.com                                Oil Systems, Inc. |
| (510) 297-5834                                     San Leandro, CA   |
|----------------------------------------------------------------------|
| "Things should be as simple as possible, but no simpler"  --Einstein |
| "Simple is as simple does"  --F. Gump                                |
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------



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Date: Tue, 14 Mar 1995 15:58:39 -0800
From: bill at oilsystems.com (Bill Vaughan)
Subject: Re: Nut brown ale (pet peeve)

<flame on -- everybody with any sanity left should skip this post>

        In English, the phrase "nut-brown" or "nut brown" has always
designated a color. Just a color.  It comes from the use of black walnut
bark as a brown dye in medieval times.  The phrase is all over the
literature and it _never_ refers to actual nuts.
        So why, O why, does our brewing community seem to think a
"nut-brown ale" should contain nuts?  What is the precedent?  Did British
brewers ever put nuts in their ale?  Won't nut oils ruin the head?
        I have nothing against brewing with odd adjuncts and spices; I do
it myself.  But a nut beer is a nut beer, it is NOT a nut-brown ale.  This
flame isn't about beer, it's about language.

<flame off -- we now return you to your regular programming>

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Bill Vaughan                                       Software Engineer |
| bill at oilsystems.com                                Oil Systems, Inc. |
| (510) 297-5834                                     San Leandro, CA   |
|----------------------------------------------------------------------|
| "Things should be as simple as possible, but no simpler"  --Einstein |
| "Simple is as simple does"  --F. Gump                                |
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------



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Date: Tue, 14 Mar 1995 16:36:02 -0800 (PST)
From: Bob Christopher <oldfogy at svpal.org>
Subject: The Fermentap review

Yo! Every one...

There have been a lot of questions lately about the "FERMENTAP."  It piqued
my interest and I decided to get one.

In my Opinion... the "Fermentap" not only works like it's suppose to, but
it even makes your "Mini-Brewery" look good!

The first thing I noticed, right out of the box, was an extremely strong
metal stand that you place a 5 or 6 1/2 gallon carboy on... Up-Side Down!

The rest of this ingenious device comes packed in a plastic bag.  Add your
own racking cane, assemble it... and your in business.

The author of the brochure failed to mention (in my opinion) one very
important feature...  The assembled device has a rinse port that lets you
sterilize the nozzle mechanism prior to racking or bottling. This eliminates
any additional chance of contamination.  No other fermentation system, to my
knowledge... has this feature. (...anybody know of one?)

With 2 "Fermentaps", you can siphon the wort from your primary to a
secondary carboy, for an oxygen-free, natural CO2 environmental transfer.

                 WOW...!  I love this technical type talk!

Using the "FERMENTAP" I brewed one of the highest trub forming recipes that
I have.  My world in-famous "Dan Quayle Potatoe beer."  Because of the
ingredients and the method I use in brewing... the trub is always way over
2 inches thick.

The day after I brewed, I held my breath, lowered the "diverter" ...and
opened the spigot port.

         (God...! More technical talk.  I'm getting light headed!)

The trub slowly slid ut of the carboy until it got thin enough to let me
know that it was time to stop!  What I had left, was a wort that was almost
sediment free!

>From my past messages and reviews, most of you know, I like to go from
primary to bottle.

The "Fermentap" made it so easy, I was in brewing heaven.  Taking a
hydrometer reading is even easier. Open the spigot and fill the sample jar.

As I mentioned before... With 2 "Fermentaps" you can transfer from primary
carboy to your secondary carboy in an oxygen-free atmosphere and lose very
little of your precious brew.

The eye-candy of this set-up, is the way it looks sitting majestically on
top of its "custom made metal welded stand." (Say that ten times fast) The
entire metal stand is coated with a white, hard plastic like finish.

I have to confess that I got anxious. I opened a bottle a 'bit sooner than
usual and realized that my world in-famous "Dan Quayle Potatoe beer",  was
a little clearer than it should have been this early.  DAMN! it taste good!

Do I like my "Fermentap?"  You better believe it.  It just makes my method
of "Primary to bottle" brewing a little easier for this old "jungle Juice"
brewer.

The brochure gives the price at $26.95 for 1 plus $4.00 shipping. If you
order 2 at $53.90, they will pay for the postage.

The Fermentap phone number is: 1-800 942-2750.

The usual disclaimer... I have no financial involvement with the company.
I'm just a satisfied user of the "FERMENTAP."

Bob (oldfogy at svpal.org)

Time goes by fast when your brewing and smashed... Since 1951!
 

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Date: Tue, 14 Mar 1995 23:19:14 -0500 (EST)
From: Joe Tristano <jrtst5+ at pitt.edu>
Subject: Thermal properties of wort and beer ????



Does anyone out there have the following thermal properties for

wort and beer.  If possible Send me the properties for both ale and lager.

1) density

2) viscosity

3) thermal conductivity




If you are wondering what I need these for, Ill tell you.


	I am in a thermal systems design course and I want to design a 
wort boiler cooler system.  ( I dont know if my group will design for 
home or micr brewing)
	Any tips will be greatly appreciated.


			Thanks

		Joe Tristano  
	
			jrtst5 at pitt.edu

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Date: Tue, 14 Mar 1995 23:52:34 -0500
From: TomF775202 at aol.com
Subject: Re: Teel Pumps

We use Teel submersable pumps at our brewery (Kalamazoo Brewing) daily for
sanitizing beer lines. They are great pumps.

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1680, 03/15/95