FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  time for the Scarsdale Diet (Rob Emenecker)
  Lead/Gout ("Justin A. Haber")
  Hop Rhizomes (WillisCPC)
  RIMS programming, wooden casks, AB Bock ("Edmund C. Hack")
  Clear bottles for mead? (KozukaShi)
  Wheat yeast, dry hops, etc. (Mark Worwetz)
  Extract Recipe (WillisCPC)
  Dry hopping (mlloyd)
  RE The Secrets of Sierra Nevada Pale Ale (ChipShabazian)
  PBS indeed! (CGEDEN)
  Culturing Dregs (Mark Roberson)
  Source of seed barley/hop plants (Nigel Townsend)
  Weird Irish Moss Story (Teddy Winstead)
  Suscribe HomebrewList (Thomas M. Cagley)
  Re: Water Conditioning ("Lee C. Bussy")
  Re: American vs. French oak (Jack Thompson)
  Re: American vs. French Oak for Casks ("Lee C. Bussy")
  Old YeastLab yeast?, Weizen yeast, Buckwheat (Jeff Renner)
  Schneider Weisse und Schierlinger Roggen (Chuck E. Mryglot)
  Mashing and Specialty Grains (mark evans)
  Roller Mills ("Dave Ebert")
  Gelatin (MR PETER E MISIASZEK)
  Gelatin (Pierre Jelenc)
  Subject: Buying Beer in Atlanta (SBarker309)
  Bottle Caps in the Boil ("Jim Fitzgerald")
  1968 yeast (Farnsworth)
  Dave Line (Farnsworth)
  Oat, Oak, Rings, and Things (Russell Mast)
  ElectroFlocculator/HBD Use (Kirk Fleming / Metro Technologies)
  re:  Oatmeal Stout and head retention (I stepped inside and didn't see too many faces  13-Apr-1995 1318 -0400)
  reslts95.txt (guyruth)
  Pasta Maker-to-Grain Mill & Honey Ale (SBarker309)
  Pilsner Enzymes? (kevin)
  Recipe for All Grain Smithwicks Ale (ernie sargent)
  Gelatine/blow-off tube/Oatmeal/Thanks (usfmchql)
  Kent Goldings hops (david lawrence shea)
  Lagering/Fermentables/Dandelion wine (Polly Eliza Gongwer)
  Old Peculier (Randy Erickson)



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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Wed, 12 Apr 95 14:57:02 PDT
From: Rob Emenecker <robe at cadmus.com>
Subject: time for the Scarsdale Diet

Jeff Hewit writes in HBD 1704...
>> I started home brewing, but I've become "more" regular since
>> then.  The bottom line is, I've gained about 25 pounds in the
>> past year.  I know it's not just the beer, but I know the beer
>> has helped.  Homebrew, with more body than regular domestic
>> beer, has to have more calories. 
Beer for the most part does not have any fat content; the primary factor
in weight gain. However, as the body metabolizes/processes alcohol most of
the B vitamins in the body are spent. These vitamins are critical for other
processes, among which is conversion of stored fat/carbo's for fuel. My 
personal experience was that shortly after homebrewing my weight slowly
increased an additional 20 lbs (over only a 1-1/2 year period). I have
since dropped this weight, but at a price. Yes... no more cheesesteaks,
pizzas, subs, etc. when I am imbibbing in brew. Also, go to most microbrew
festivals and what type of food is available? You got it... German sausages
and the like (A number 1 source of FAT!!!). If you are going to imbibe 
excessively stock up on a good B-complex vitamin and fight the urge for
junk food. If this doesn't fly, well then, accept the weight gain and go
on with life! ;)

+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
:  "There are only two things in life that                         oooooo    :
:   we can ever be certain of...                                 _oooooooo   :
:                      ...taxes and beer!"                      /_|  oooooo  :
:   Cheers,                                                    // |    ooo   :
:   Rob Emenecker                                              \\_|   oo |   :
:   remenecker at cadmus.com (Rob Emenecker)                       \_|     o|   :
:   Cadmus Journal Services, Inc.                                 |______|   :
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+




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Date: Wed, 12 Apr 1995 15:12:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Justin A. Haber" <JAH at cvlab.harvard.edu>
Subject: Lead/Gout

In HBD #1695, Nathan Dalleska writes:

>In  the 18th century, Klotz tells us, gout was endemic to Britain, apparently
>due to the practice of storing port, sherry, madeira, etc. in lead crystal 
>containers.

Actually, a mutch greater contributer of lead was the lead pipes used to move 
the wines from the fermenters to the aging casks, and perhaps the fermenters 
themselves (the stuff was used everywhere).  Given the volume of port consumed 
during the period, often a bottle apiece after dinner(!), the stuff didn't hang 
around in the lead crystal for long.  I assume the problem was greater for 
wines than beers due to the higher acidity of the must vs. wort.

Justin Haber
jah at cvlab.harvard.edu

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Date: Wed, 12 Apr 1995 15:31:10 -0400
From: WillisCPC at aol.com
Subject: Hop Rhizomes

wself at viking.emcmt.edu asked about sources of hop rhizomes for planting. I
just ordered 3 varieties from Northern Brewer. Email nbrewer at winternet.com.
Standard disclaimers apply, I have no interest in them other than they seem
to be a good supplier.

Gregg Willis
Willis CPC at aol.com

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Date: Wed, 12 Apr 1995 12:40:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Edmund C. Hack" <echack at crl.com>
Subject: RIMS programming, wooden casks, AB Bock

In HBD 1701, Chuck Wettergreen mentioned the BASIC stamp as a possible 
RIMS controller. A few points of correction/amplification: The BASIC stamp
is not a Radio Shack product. It is made by Parallax, Inc. in two 
versions for $29-59 depending on options. The software development kit is 
$99, but you can download the manuals (Adobe Acrobat format), the 
development software and sample code from their ftp site and web page 
(http://parallaxinc.com or ftp to parallaxinc.com). The only thing in the $99
SDK that you would need to make is a cable that would cost about $10 in 
parts. From what I can see, it would be a good place to start for a RIMS 
controller. Digi-Key also distributes the BASIC Stamps. Check magazines 
such as Circuit Cellar Ink and Midnight Engineering for ads from 
Parallax. (I have no financial interest in them, BTW).

Also in HBD 1701, Kirk Fleming posted interesting info on wooden casks 
that may soon be available in the US for beer use. I have one question: 
it was noted by the seller of the casks that they add an oak flavor to 
the beer, implying that the casks are not lined. I seem to remember from 
either the Brewing Techniques series on IPA or the AHA's Pale Ale book 
that the casks used in the UK are coated with a special type of pitch. 
Anyone know if that is true? Also, the statement that American Oak 
leaches more tannins into the contents is why most wineries in the US use 
imported (French?) oak for fermenting.

Finally, our friends at Bud are now producing a bock called "Ziegenbock" 
here at the Houston brewery. Initial distribution is in Texas only (to 
compete with Shiner, no doubt) and I picked up a six pack for $4.979 or 
so. It is OK - big head that really disappears fast, some malt/hops in 
the nose, I'd put it a half-step below Shiner, several below SA Double 
Bock and far below any German import I've had. The label approaches 
claiming to be Reinheitsgebot (sp?) compliant, but never states so. I 
noted in a post to CIS that if they wanted to, the majors could really 
produce some great specialty lagers without much competition, since most 
micros concentrate on ales (for valid economic reasons).

Edmund Hack  \  "The great prince issues commands,
echack at crl.com \  Founds states, vests families with fiefs.
Houston, TX      \ Inferior people should not be employed."-regnaD kciN


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Date: Wed, 12 Apr 1995 12:42:42 -0700
From: KozukaShi at eworld.com
Subject: Clear bottles for mead?

I understand that putting beer into clear bottles is asking for problems such
as light-struck off flavors or skunking.  Recently, a friend gave me a couple
of cases of those clear glass Corona bar bottles and I'm not wanting to let
them go if I don't need to.  I'm wondering about using them to bottle some
still mead.  Are there potential problems if the clear bottles are used for
mead instead of beer?

John Grivetti sends
Zohar: She is a Be'er, a well and an explanation. . .
KozukaShi at eworld.com

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Date: Wed, 12 Apr 1995 13:41:49 -0600 (MDT)
From: Mark_Worwetz at Novell.COM (Mark Worwetz)
Subject: Wheat yeast, dry hops, etc.

Howdy from Zion!

Long time, no speak, but here we go...
To Andy Ross:  I have been happiest with the characteristics of the Wheat
yeast from William's catalog.  To me, it produces the nicest clove, banana
like flavors that I enjoy in a Wheat.  It finishes very clean and light.

On dry-hop flavor:  It seems obvious to me that you cannot add JUST hop
aroma via dry-hopping.  Doesn't much of our flavor/taste perception come
via our sense of smell?  If you smell it while you drink it, THEN YOU TASTE
IT!  Is it just me?

Question: I have gotten my doppelbock recipe just about where I like it, but
I have had trouble getting a yeast to eat my 1.082 OG wort down to an
acceptable level.  The best performance I obtained was 1.022 FG.  This is
too sweet tasting! I won't say what yeasts I've used, but I have used a
one liter starter and fermented until all activity stopped 2 months later.
I would appreciate good doppelbock yeast advice, and any help concerning
larger starters, yeast nutrients, temperature changes, etc.  Would higher
hop rates help?  I use the generic Papazian doppelbock IBU recommendations.
Lagering takes too long to make uninformed experimentation acceptable.

TIA to the beertherhood!
Mark

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Date: Wed, 12 Apr 1995 15:54:43 -0400
From: WillisCPC at aol.com
Subject: Extract Recipe

Someone recently asked for straight extract recipes, here is one I brewed a
few months ago that everyone seems to like.

1 can (3.3 lbs) John Bull Hopped Amber Malt
1 can (3.3 lbs) John Bull Amber Malt, unhopped
40 ml Burton Ale liquid yeast
40 min boil
1.045 sp. gr.

Racked to secondary fermentor after 7 days, 1.02 sp. gr.
Bottled after 2 weeks in secondary and no activity using 1 1/4 cup dry amber
malt for priming, 1.02 sp. gr.

I do not remember if the yeast was Yeast Labs or Wyeast, I got it from
Williams Brewing I think. Also, I do not necessarily believe my SG's.
After bottling I did get what seems to be the common "ring around the neck"
since I used DME for priming.
This beer was fine as is but if I do it again I will try to get some more
body in it, maybe add some crystal malt or some wheat DME.

Happy Brewing!
Gregg Willis
(I know this is my second post today, but I forgot to add this to the first.)

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Date: Wed, 12 Apr 95 13:31:08 EST
From: mlloyd at cuix.pscu.com
Subject: Dry hopping


David Shea wrote about some problems in dryhopping SNPA and a clone of
Redhook ESB.

In my clone of Redhook, which I call Trolleyman ESB, I typically use 1
oz. Tettnang pellets for a five minute finish and 0.75 oz. Tettnang
pellets as a dry hop in the secondary for 21 days.  My most recent
purchases of Tettnang hops have come in at 5.6% alpha acid.

I suspect the overly strong hop note comes from using 1.0 oz of Tettnang
pellets as a dry hop.  I would suggest cranking down the dry hop weight
to 0.75 oz of Tettnang pellets.  I used to use 1.0 oz Tettnang whole
hops as a dry hop, but discovered that I got a more *rounded* hop aroma
by using the pellets.  If you wished to use whole hops in the dry hop,
then I would try 1.0 oz.

Best of luck in future batches.

Michael G. Lloyd
mlloyd at cuix.pscu.com

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Date: Wed, 12 Apr 95 14:16:00 PDT
From: ChipShabazian <ChipS at 800sw.com>
Subject: RE The Secrets of Sierra Nevada Pale Ale


Jon Binkley Asks:

>I noticed that you covered only three of the Big Four ingredients in
>your excellent synopsis. Is there anything special about Chico's
>water supply, or does SN do any special water treatment?

I was a student at CSU Chico and working for the company that sold SN all of 
their computer equipment when they moved from their original location to the 
building they now occupy (Around 1989), and as I recall, the new brewery was 
delayed by a few months because they were having problems duplicating the 
water used in the original building.  So there is definitely something 
special about the water.  If anyone wants to analyze it, next time I go to 
Chico (about twice a year, nothing planned right now), I will go the site of 
the original brewery and get a sample, providing whoever is now in the 
building will let me in!

Chip Shabazian
chips at 800sw.com

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Date:         Wed, 12 Apr 95 17:57:29 EDT
From: CGEDEN at NERVM.NERDC.UFL.EDU
Subject:      PBS indeed!

Does this PBS of homebrewing archive its postings somewhere where we
proles can read them?  Or do you need the secret decoder ring to translate
them?

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Date: Wed, 12 Apr 1995 16:56:14 -0600
From: roberson at hydroxide.chem.utah.edu (Mark Roberson)
Subject: Culturing Dregs


Fellow brewers,

    Having lately fallen in love with Belgian Ales, and having read bad things
about Wyeast's offerings in that category, I have "cultured" the fluff from
two bottles of Chimay Grand Reserve and one of Corsendonk <sp?>.  In all three
cases I flamed out the mouth of the original bottle and poured the leavings
into a twelve ounce bottle with eight ounces of aerated starter. In all three
cases as well I wound up with a thick layer of stuff that looks like the
sediment which I poured in, but I never saw any gas make it through the 
bubbler.  Quite unlike my 1056 starters...  Would someone with more experience
in this magic tell me if this is normal?

							Hoppy brewing, Steve,
							MJR

   ****************  FREE FLAME ZONE  ****************
   ****************   ENTER AT RISK   ****************

>Date:          Sat, 8 Apr 1995 20:46:29 +0000
>From: "Lee C. Bussy" <leeb at southwind.net>
>Subject:       Floral aroma and re-using Cascades
>
> [ deleted beer judging stuff ]
>
>This all brings me to my last point for today:  There has been a 
>trend of late to dissect and anylize everything a person says and 
>either prove or disprove to the nth degree or correct spelling and 
>grammar.  Who the hell cares?  I'm not affected by whether or not a 
           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^   ****************

    Wait just one minute: when Mr Bussy posts reams of local competition
results for the benefit of those too lazy to email for a copy, I am supposed
to grin and bear it.  When I and my techie friends discuss issues which 
WE FIND INTERESTING we are lectured on netiquette.  What an ass.


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Date: Thu, 13 Apr 1995 09:08:30 +1000
From: nigelt at delm.tas.gov.au (Nigel Townsend)
Subject:  Source of seed barley/hop plants

k-jones at ee.utah.edu (Kelly Jones) sought a source of barley seed.  I do a
lot of gardening and use barley straw (bought as bales) as a mulch.  I find
that I have considerable volunteers arising from the seed remaining on the
straw.  I tend to leave it to grow and use it as a source for the next
layer of mulch.

If you try this,try shaking the grain out before placing on the ground.
You should also try add some fertiliser (eg blood and bone, manure etc) and
compost under the straw, as this will increase grain cropping and
accelerate the breakdown of the straw. The soil is greatly improved after a
couple of years of repeating this process. The mulch will reduce weed
competition, but keep it moist whilst you are trying to germinate the
seeds.

Following recent discussions on malting grain, I will try a small sample
this year to see how it works.
                               ----------------

Any one in Tasmania know of a good local supplier of hop plants?  I am
looking for aroma hops.  Thanks

Nigel, Tasmania, Australia



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Date: Wed, 12 Apr 1995 19:40:50 -0500 (CDT)
From: winstead%brauerei at cs.tulane.edu (Teddy Winstead)
Subject: Weird Irish Moss Story

I thought that this story was appropriate to share with the digest --

I had planned to make some oatmeal stout on Tuesday, so Monday night
(this is Wednesday today) I re-hydrated 2 tsp in about 1 cup of water.
By this evening it was fermenting!  Yes, beleive it or not the Irish
Moss/water mixture was bubbling like a yeast starter of similar size,
and it had a funky looking pellicle on top.

So, I guess the moral of this story is -- be careful where you store
your Irish moss...  Or, I guess this could actually help lambic
brewers...  Just put the irish moss in you *cooled* wort!

I have no idea what was fermenting in there...

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Date: Thu, 13 Apr 1995 05:49:24 -0400
From: fp175 at cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Thomas M. Cagley)
Subject: Suscribe HomebrewList

Suscribe Homebrew Mailing List

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Date:          Thu, 13 Apr 1995 05:46:54 +0000
From: "Lee C. Bussy" <leeb at southwind.net>
Subject:       Re: Water Conditioning

Rob McDonald asks about water conditiong:

Specifically, on a highly alkaline water supply, Dave Miller 
Recommends USP Hydrochloric Acid as a means to lower the pH.

His questions were:

>Has anyone tried this?

Yup.

>If so what recommendations can you make.

Use 88% lactic available at the Homebrew shop.  Cheaper, more readily 
available and it is definitely food grade.  I usually have to use 
less than 1/4 tsp per 10 gallons of water with this water supply.  
YMMV.  A friend used plain old Vinegar but I just can't bring myself 
to do it.  I don't see why it wouldn't work though.

> Can anybody suggest why this wouldn't be a good idea?

Just safety considerations.  I don't know at what concentrations USP 
Hydrochloric comes but the Lactic is safe right out of the bottle 
(okay, usual precautions apply but hey, it's pretty safe).




- --
 -Lee Bussy          | The 4 Basic Foodgroups....      |
 leeb at southwind.net | Salt, Fat, Beer & Women!        |
 Wichita, Kansas    | http://www.southwind.net/~leeb  |

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Date: Thu, 13 Apr 1995 03:56:10 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jack Thompson <jct at reed.edu>
Subject: Re: American vs. French oak

Matt Wyss comented in HBD 1705 that he had been told that American oak 
could be used to make barrels as good as French barrels if the oak was 
split instead of being sawn.

This is untrue. All that splitting will accomplish is to separate out the 
firewood (i.e., twisty wood) from wood which splits true.

Subsequent operations with planes and scrappers will open up at least as 
many pores as sawing.

If the goal is to remove tannin and acetic acid, boil the split-out 
blanks in water before working them down into staves.  This will remove a 
substantial fraction of water soluble material; the blanks which remain 
in plane after this treatment will be very dimensionally stable.  Any 
which twist on drying join the others in the firewood pile.

Any differences in taste are a function of minerals in the dirt which the 
oak grows upon.

Jack C. Thompson
Thompson Conservation Lab
Portland, OR

jct at Reed.edu

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Date:          Thu, 13 Apr 1995 06:03:08 +0000
From: "Lee C. Bussy" <leeb at southwind.net>
Subject:       Re: American vs. French Oak for Casks

Matt Wyss gave us some info ge got on American Oak wine casks:

Apparently the tour guide said that these were split not sawn and 
henc leached less?  Makes sense I guess.

There was a blurb on PBS last weekend on "This Old House" where Norm 
and Steve went to a Cooper's (Cooperage?) in Napa Valley.  This was a 
French family (can't remember the name) who had been doing it for 
generations.

Norm asked about the French vs American Oak aspect.  He was told that 
they used to import the wood but a combination of cost effectiveness 
and a desire to be different forced American Coopers to the American 
White Oak.  It was the Coopers opinion that American Winemakers want 
an American Wine to have an "American" character since they are 
established well enough on the market to be able to influence the 
style rather than copy it.

And splitting vs. sawing..... these were sawn and the Cooper said 
nothing about that but all barrels are charred on the inside, 
"toasting" I belive they call it.  He indicated that how this is done 
greatly affects the finished product.  Maybe that seals the pores 
somewhat.  I can tell you that White Oak is not near as porous as 
many woods I can think of... I don't se how it would be a problem but 
I'm not a Cooper.


- --
 -Lee Bussy          | The 4 Basic Foodgroups....      |
 leeb at southwind.net | Salt, Fat, Beer & Women!        |
 Wichita, Kansas    | http://www.southwind.net/~leeb  |

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Date: Thu, 13 Apr 95 07:40:33 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Old YeastLab yeast?, Weizen yeast, Buckwheat

Doug Flagg comments on Timothy L. Burger's problems with lack of
activity with a YeastLab yeast starter, and commented on the six month
expiration date.  I agree that it sounds like less than fresh yeast and
have several thoughts on this.  First, let me issue a non-standard
disclaimer about YeastLab.  While I have no interest in it, Dan
McConnell is a good friend, and I do benefit from getting free yeast
from him for his QC.  However, this gives me a good perspective w.r.t.
old yeast, (and furthermore I can't be bought for a mere $3.50).  I just
asked Dan how old some of the yeast was that I've gotten, and he told me
as much as a year, the oldest he kept for QC samples.  These had, of
course, been kept refrigerated the whole time.  They started slow, but
were viable.

The problem occurs after the yeast leaves the lab.  Yeast is perishable.
Check with your shop and encourage them to pay for 2nd day air shipment.
Otherwise they arrive somewhat compromised.  And  make sure they keep
them refrigerated until sold.  Fresh yeast is best, but older yeast is a
fact of the retail distribution process.  If properly handled, it should
still be fine, if a little slow getting started.  When Timothy's finally
got started, he could have grown it a few more times to get a healthy
starter.  This might have been a good idea even with fresh yeast.  I
like to start my yeast early enough to get several increases.


Another YeastLab topic while I have you on the phone.  Andy Ross wonders
about Bavarian weizen yeasts other than Wyeast for getting a full
clovey, spicey flavor.  Wyeast makes two Weizen yeasts.  One (3056) is a
blend of a neutral yeast and a weizen one.  I'd stay away from that one
in favor of either their pure strain (3068) or YeastLab W51.  Dan has
previously posted here the IDs of all of YeastLabs yeasts, and their W51
Bavarian Wheat is Weihenstephan W66.  I have been very pleased with it
and took a first in last year's Michigan State Fair with a nice, spicey
weizen fermented with it.  Temperature plays a big part in this, with
more banana being produced in the upper 60's and higher.  Mid 60's will
temper the banana but still give nice spice.  I didn't see the post
about sulfur from Wyeast's, but I wouldn't worry.  Many strains,
especially lager yeast, produce this, but it has always blown off for me
by the end of the ferment.
***

Neil Flatter asks

>The last time I was in the area health store I bought a couple of
pounds  of >buck wheat grain.  My original thought was to combine it
with the  pound of >steel cut oats I also bought to make a Belgian wit
beer.  It has  since   >occurred tome that buckwheat pancakes are MUCH
darker than whole  wheat >pancakes.  Does that mean buckwheat would make
a darker beer too?   I'd also >like to know if I need to malt either of
these grains.  I  suspect that they >both will need to be malted before
mashing them.  Any  opinions out there?

First, Neil, you should know that buckwheat is NOT any kind of wheat.
It is not even a cereal (Gramineae family); it is in the rhubarb family
(Polygonaceae).  However, it would probably provide a decent starch
source and could be used as an adjunct.  I suppose it could be sprouted
(malted), but I have no idea what the enzymatic results of that would
be.  You say that you suspect that both will need to be malted.  You
weren't going to try to malt steel cut oats, were you?  They simply
aren't viable after being chopped.  (I assume the post about sprouted
spent grains was a late April Fool's message).

Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu


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Date: Thu, 13 Apr 95 08:02:49 EDT
From: cem at cadre.com (Chuck E. Mryglot)
Subject: Schneider Weisse und Schierlinger Roggen


I was just flipping through a current issue of Malt Advocate 
magazine and noticed a full page ad from B. United International
announcong that they are now importing Schneider Weisse and
Schierlinger Roggen.    Has anyone seen these in the stores?

It says that Schneider weisse is unpasturized. Does this mean
that the yeast is viable?  M. Jackson writes that they bottle
with the same yeast they ferment with.

Also, I'm interested in trying the rye beer. Has anyone brewed
a rye?  I've read that it is similar to brewing Weisse, but
what type of yeast is appropriate.

full of questions
chuckm

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Date: Thu, 13 Apr 1995 07:18:47 -0600
From: evanms at lcac1.loras.edu (mark evans)
Subject: Mashing and Specialty Grains

Been a lot of talk ('scuse me, a thread) on whether to mash specialty
grains.  Here's what I do.

Basically I don't.  Due to the size of my mash tun, only diastatic or
fermentable (convertible?) malts/adjuncts get in the mash (2-row, 6-row,
munich, vienna, aromatic, biscuit, wheat, wheat/oat flakes, etc.)   For the
crystals, blacks, chocolates, roasteds, "special B" (mmmm), and other
specialty malts  I simply steep during the mash in a separate pan of water
"to cover"( a couple quarts) at between 165-85F.  I strain out the sweet
colored liquor, save the nearly spent grains, and then toss them on top of
my sparge when the running is nearly done.  I'm happy with the way things
turn out.  The color and clarity of my beers is always great!

brewfully, Mark Evans



   =========================================================

                                      "I do a lot of different things.
                        I just can't remember what they are right now."

                                    



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Date:          Thu, 13 Apr 1995 06:09:15 MST-0700
From: "Dave Ebert" <DNE at Data.HSC.Colorado.edu>
Subject:       Roller Mills

Without causing another uproar on the bandwidth, could someone please 
email me with information about Jack's roller mills?  Please do not 
put the reply on the HBD!!!

Thanks

Dave
dne at data.hsc.colorado.edu

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Date: Thu, 13 Apr 1995 10:05:08 EDT
From: WNXP21A at prodigy.com (MR PETER E MISIASZEK)
Subject: Gelatin

        The thread on gelatin has been very helpful.  Does anyone have
experience using gelatin with inverted fermenters such as BrewCap or
Fermentap?  How long does it take the gelatin to "work?"  Could it be used
in the bottling bucket?

Pete Misiaszek brewing BayBeer (inverted) in Newport RI.


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Date: Thu, 13 Apr 95 10:47:48 EDT
From: Pierre Jelenc <pcj1 at columbia.edu>
Subject: Gelatin

HBD 1705 was full of comments about gelatin, most of them emphasizing 
that it should not be boiled "because it gets denatured".

Reality check, please! Folks, that is utter poppycock! Gelatin _is_
denatured protein: "Denaturation of collagen is the conversion of the
rigidly coiled helix to a random coil called gelatin." (Merck Index 11th
ed.)

Gelatin is made by _boiling_ bones and scraps (NOT hooves, that's
keratin!) for hours, typically in a giant pressure cooker. There is not a
trace of native secondary structure in gelatin. 

ObBeer: I used to fine with gelatin. I always boiled it a couple of 
minutes. It always worked spectacularly well. I stopped doing it because 
I've come to like hazy beer. It's more nutritious that way.

Pierre

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Date: Thu, 13 Apr 1995 10:52:59 -0400
From: SBarker309 at aol.com
Subject: Subject: Buying Beer in Atlanta

As requested,  here's a partial list of the better beer locations in Atlanta.
John Lock's file also contains lists of restaurants, pubs and homebrew stores
worth checking out while in Atlanta.

On WWW at <URL:http://www.mindspring.com/~jlock/atlbeer0.html> *
Via anonymous ftp to ftp.stanford.edu in /pub/clubs/homebrew/beer/rfdb

Copyright (c) 1994-95 by John A. Lock. All rights reserved. This document may
be freely distributed in its entirety provided this 

* Green's Beverages
2612 Buford Hwy.
1/4 mile north of Lenox Rd.
Atlanta, GA
404-321-6232
- ------and--------
737 Ponce de Leon Ave. at intersection with Ponce de Leon Pl.
Atlanta, GA
404-872-1109 Mon-Thu 8-11, Fri-Sat 8-11:30
Offering the best beer selection in Atlanta, IMO.

* Tower Package Stores
5877 Buford Hwy.
Doraville, GA
404-458-3272
- ------and--------
2161 Piedmont Rd.
1/4 mile south of Lindbergh Dr.
Atlanta, GA
404-881-0902
Mon-Sat 8-11:45

Scott Barker

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Date:          Thu, 13 Apr 1995 07:58:24 +0000
From: "Jim Fitzgerald" <jimfitz at netcom.com>
Subject:       Bottle Caps in the Boil

I have read a couple of posts in the past about using bottle caps in
the boil to help even it out some, this sounds like a very clever way 
to get a little better heat distribution within your brew pot. I've 
been using a King Kooker regulated burner for a couple of years now 
and it works really great, execpt the heat of the burner seems to be 
somewhat concentrated in the center if the brew pot requiring a 
little bit more heat to get a really good boil (with the lid about 
halfway on, but I guess that's another story...). It seems like there 
are a couple of things that I can do here to make this boil a little 
bit better. First, better heat distribution within the wort. And 
second, reduce the gas to the burner a little to save energy...I hate 
it when my gas bottles run out.

So, my questions about bottle caps in the boil are as follows:

Are there any problems in using bottle caps in the boil that anyone 
can think of? 

Here are some concerns that come to mind...

Are there any special coatings that are used on bottle caps that can
come off in the boil and leach out into the boiling wort?

What about the plastic (or whatever material it is) liner inside the 
bottle cap, could this melt/deteriorate into the wort?

Is the metal that the bottle caps are made of a problem in general 
due to the high pH of the wort?

How about the paint that is used on some bottle caps (Relax, Have a 
Home Brew...etc)?

If bottle caps are not a good idea, is anybody using anything else 
that accomplishes this heat distribution problem in a different way? 
It would be nice to hear from any of you that have input on this 
subject.

Cheers!
Jim




- -------------------------
Jim Fitzgerald
Los Gatos, CA
jimfitz at netcom.com

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Date: Thu, 13 Apr 1995 09:19:33 -0700
From: Farnsworth at eworld.com
Subject: 1968 yeast


  Glen said wyeyeast 1968 took a wort down in 5 days.It just took a 1049 to
 1008 in 24 hrs for me!I did use 1 litre of yeast slurry in 15 gals :this was
 the third repitch of the yield from 2   prior  10 gal batches.Start was from
 a 1/2 gal starter made from Y yeast smack pack.Killer yeast, tastes great
 too, very similar to real english ale .I suspect it is Youngs or Fullers .
               
                           Paul Farnsworth San Antonio

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Date: Thu, 13 Apr 1995 09:25:36 -0700
From: Farnsworth at eworld.com
Subject: Dave Line

 
Will Self asks  about Dave Lines' demise. I was in U.K. at  time : it  was
cancer;rumour was it was all the saccharine in his homebrews. Look at his
recipes!
               Paul Farnsworth San Antonio


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Date: Thu, 13 Apr 1995 12:03:22 -0500
From: Russell Mast <rmast at fnbc.com>
Subject: Oat, Oak, Rings, and Things


> From: Matt_K at ceo.sts-systems.ca
> Subject: Oatmeal Stout without head

>  My assupmtion is that 
> something in the oats (oils?) is killing the head.

I think so.  Not sure what you can do for it.  Maybe steel cut oats or
a different kinds of flaked or rolled oats would do better.  When I went 
to a health food store looking for oats, there were several things which 
looked very similar.  One such thing was called "oat flakes" which were a
little more expensive than any of the things labelled "rolled oats".  
I'm no oaxpert, as I'm fond of saying, but the beer I made with a lb of 
these oats turned out to have really nice head.  Maybe that's just from the
lactobacillis.  Oops.  

> From: Yeastbud at aol.com
> Subject: American vs. French Oak for kegs
> 
> He also stated
> the an oak tree is an oak tree no matter where it grows.

I'm not sure about anything else you quote him on, but I'm almost 
positive this is not true.  Several of my relatives are antique collectors
and they say there is definately a difference between the oak used in a 
lot of antique furniture, and some of this stuff is like 1850's, so I doubt
that the difference is due to different handling.  (Could be...)

> I forgot who: 

> I just noticed that there is a ring around the neck
>  of my yeast starter bottle. 

I always get that.  I assume it's clingies from the krausen.

 -Russell

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Date: Thu, 13 Apr 1995 11:08:06 -0600 (MDT)
From: Kirk Fleming / Metro Technologies <flemingk at usa.net>
Subject: ElectroFlocculator/HBD Use


- --There was an article possibly in The New Brewer, BT, or Zymurgy that 
mentioned a device used in making low-alcohol beers--an electrically 
charged metallic matrix which traps yeast, holding it immobile yet 
functional.  I'm talking commercial set-ups now.

If you know where this article is or know abt the device (even if only 
what it's called), *please* help me via email.  To a degree we read the 
same beer lit, someone must know what I'm talking about.  The device had 
sort of a bio-related sounding name, or maybe something that conjures up 
the "catalyst" idea.

- --Thanks for the help with my Gelatin Problem; another tribute to HBD 
readership that my newbie question was handled with no condescension.  
Michael M's yeast starter practice summary (#1705) is also something I 
cast a vote for.  This is an efficient way to get out info when replies 
are private, so those of us who still need some hand-holding and 
validation can progress.
 
- ------------------------------------------------------
 Kirk R Fleming / Colorado Springs / flemingk at usa.net
- ------------------------------------------------------ 

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Date: Thu, 13 Apr 95 13:19:03 EDT
From: I stepped inside and didn't see too many faces 13-Apr-1995 1318 -0400 <ferguson at zendia.ENET.dec.com>
Subject: re:  Oatmeal Stout and head retention

>Date: Mon, 10 Apr 95 16:11:45 edt
>From: Matt_K at ceo.sts-systems.ca
>Subject: Oatmeal Stout without head
>
>I recently brewed an Oatmeal Stout and the stuff is absolutely 
>wonderful with the exception that head retention is zip.

try adding 1# of wheat malt to the mash.
jc

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Date: Thu, 13 Apr 95 12:35:32 EST
From: guyruth at abq-ros.com
Subject: reslts95.txt


Let's try this again.  I was trying to send the results of the Dukes of
Ale Spring Thing as an attached file and it didn't work so here is Try
#2.
============================ Automated Message ============================
There was a file attached to this message on the Bulletin Board System.
This file attachment has been routed in subsequent messages.
============================= End of Message ==============================


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Date: Thu, 13 Apr 1995 14:49:05 -0400
From: SBarker309 at aol.com
Subject: Pasta Maker-to-Grain Mill & Honey Ale

I can't remember who was searching for information on converting a pasta
maker to a grain mill, but it seemed like a cheap way to find out if I would
enjoy mashing before spending too much money.

The bottom line is most say it will work, but you need to score the rollers
so they will grab the grain and pull it through. Unfortunately, when you do
this, you ain't got a pasta maker anymore.

If you want detailed descriptions on how to do this just go to the stanford
archives and retrieve HBD 783. Also more information in HBD 787 and 881.

Now a question:

I have been looking for a honey ale recipe and can't find anything. Is there
a reason (like will the ale yeast poop out or will fermentation take too
long) for this or am I just looking in the wrong places? Any suggestions?
recipes?

TIA

Scott Barker

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Date: Thu, 13 Apr 1995 13:05:39 -0600 (MDT)
From: kevin at wheels.aar.com
Subject: Pilsner Enzymes?

This is more of a curiosity question....

I used a mexican beer kit, that included a packet of something called
"pilsner enzymes".  You were to put it in the wort when you pitched the
yeast. I've looked around to find any information on this, but haven't 
found anything by that name.

Does anyone know the actual name for this enzyme (a-amylase?  I doubt it),
and what it's function is?

Thanks!
Kevin

- -- 
Kevin Hass WB0DPN       ! 
                        !  PGP public key by request via email
kevin at wheels.aar.com    !

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Date: Thu, 13 Apr 1995 12:56:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: ernie sargent <ERNIES at ios.bc.ca>
Subject: Recipe for All Grain Smithwicks Ale

I'm an extract brewer about to make the jump to all grain and 
would like to make an Irish Ale al la Smithwicks.  I've searched 
Cats Meow, but didn't see anything that piqued my interest.  
Anyone out there have a recipe they could e-mail me?

TIA
ernies at ios.bc.ca

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Date: Thu, 13 Apr 1995 15:51:09 EDT
From: usfmchql at ibmmail.com
Subject: Gelatine/blow-off tube/Oatmeal/Thanks                            


In HBD 1703:

>Richard Hampo asks about when to use gelatine...

In my experience, gelatine is generally used in the secondary prior to
bottling. I've never had to pitch additional yeast due to its use.

>molloy at tcpcs2.dnet.etn.com asks about carboy size and blowoff tubes...

The bigger the 'boy, the less material will be blown off due to the greater
volume available for the kraeusen expansion. Most of the material you wish to
blow off rides on top of this kraeusen, so a larger carboy may be able to reap
some of the benefits of blow-off with reduced loss of volume (assuming the
kraeusen reaches the blow-off outlet).

I would recommend you use a tube large enough in diameter that a stopper is
not required. This will reduce the likelihood of your tube becoming plugged
and the whole thing popping off (or the 'boy exploding). I find a 1" dia tube
works well with a carboy.

>Pat Humphrey talks about using Oatmeal as a growth medium...

PAT! Could you elaborate on this? Oatmeal is a LOT cheaper than agar. A
private response is fine if you don't think this is of general interest.

> In HBD 1704, Dave Draper shares the results of his brewing water question...

Thanks, Dave! As always, the information you've shared will be a great help to
all of us! (And thanks to all those that contributed to your efforts!) This
one's going on my brewery wall!

Brew on!
Patrick (Pat) G. Babcock | "Let a good beer be the exclamation point at the
usfmchql at ibmmail.com     |  end of your day as every sentence requires proper
(313)46-70842 (V)        |  punctuation." - PGB
(313)46-70843 (F)        |


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Date: Thu, 13 Apr 1995 15:26:00 -0500 (EST)
From: david lawrence shea <dshea at indiana.edu>
Subject: Kent Goldings hops

I have tried to brew and english type pale twice with very little 
success.  Both recipes used Kent Goldings for finishing, the first only 
1/4 oz. (1.040 recipe) and the second used 3/4 oz. with an additional 3/4 
ounce dry hopped in the secondary.  Both beers were a bit on the bland 
side, and I was hoping to get that great taste of a Fuller's ESB.  Does 
it take a larger quantity of Goldings hops to equal the taste of more 
American style hops such as Cascades, Willamette etc.?  I would love to 
have some comments from people who have used Goldings with great success 
and some tips on how it was done.  TIA.

David L. Shea
Indiana University
dshea at ucs.indiana.edu


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Date: Fri, 14 Apr 1995 10:26:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: Polly Eliza Gongwer <polly at brahms.udel.edu>
Subject: Lagering/Fermentables/Dandelion wine

Greetings HBD readers.

	First I would like to thank you all for the wisdom and opinions 
expressed here.  I have learned much about the fine art of homebrew.  
Even tried the Cranbeery Ale recipe posted a few months ago (and have the 
cranberry skins on the basement ceiling to prove it!).  So now I am 
making the plunge from lurker to participant with a few questions.

Lagering...

	When brewing a lager, when is the appropriate time to bring the 
beer to lagering temperature?  I have a "Honey-Ginger-Lager" percolating 
away now, 1 week + after brewing.  It took 36+ hours at 65ish degrees F 
before any activity was evident.  I moved it out to the storage shed, 
which I think is about 50 degrees, 4 days after brewing.  It still has a 
consistent production of CO2.  I am planning to rack it to another carboy 
as soon as I bottle one of the batches occupying the other 3 carboys.  
(It's fun to have 20 gallons of beer in process!)

Non-barley malt fermentables...

	Another batch of beer, a Weizen, and the Honey-Ginger-Lager, both 
seemed to take a very long time to start fermenting.  For the Weizen I 
used a dry ale yeast (14g) hydrated in cooled boiled water with a bit of 
corn sugar.  The yeast was active at pitching time.  The fermentation 
took about 24 hours to get started.  The Lager used a Wyeast #???? 
Bavarian Lager where the bag was bulged to maximum capacity.  Hindsight 
being 20-20, I guess I should have made a starter for the liquid yeast, 
but I am NOT a patient person (I only used the Wyeast because my Homebrew 
store was out of dry Lager yeast).  So, I guess my question is, when 
using "sugars" which take longer to ferment (such as honey and wheat), is 
there any way to get the fermentation started sooner to avoid potential 
infection?  I'm figuring that if the "official" yeast takes a long time 
to start with the fermentation, the wild ones also take longer and the 
longer start time isn't really a problem.  My significant other seems 
paranoid about it though, so I thought I would ask. 

Dandelion Wine....

	Finally, with spring in the air, those little yellow weeds are 
popping up.  I was wondering if anyone has a recipe for Dandelion wine.  
It would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance for the input, and thanks for the informative dialog.

Polly at brahms.udel.edu



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Date: 14 Apr 95 10:58:20 EDT
From: Randy Erickson <74763.2312 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Old Peculier

<Insert shameless suckup here>

I'm planning to make a dark pale ale along the lines of Old Peculier using Dave
Line's extract recipe.  The recipe calls for 4 lbs of Dark extract and 2 lbs of
dark brown sugar plus specialty grains, sacharin, and treacle to prime.  Does
this malt/sugar mix sound appropriate, or am I going to end up with
Porter-Cider?  Any other combinations of malts and kettle sugars?

Any thoughts on which Wyeast?  My guess would be London Ale.

Finally, how many little packets of the "pink stuff" equals one sacharin tablet?
I haven't seen those things in years.  What about the "blue stuff"?  Dextrine
powder?

Thanks -- Randy


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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1707, 04/17/95