FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Kegging and bottling (Ray Robert)
  Homemade Enzymes/Banged up Enamel/Gout/Microwave use (Rich Larsen)
  Brass and Stainless ("Palmer.John")
  Questions on: yeast, areation, tubing, idophor (Jason Meredith)
  Re: coyote?? ("Marc Hugentobler")
  More on microwaving (I Gelman)
  Filters (barber eric stephen)
  Growing Hops? / JustHops Phone#? (EricHale)
  MiniKeg bombs ("Glen R. Geisen")
  Microwave Sanitation... (ELQ1)
  fruit beers & artificial sweets (Brian L. Thorn)
  full mash time (Mark Bellefeuille)
  Bunches of stuff (JOHNMAJ)
  UNYHA Contest Winners (Kaltenbach)
  "denatured" gelatin & sprouting malt (Tom Clifton)
  AOB Mirror site in Australia (Aidan "Krazy Krausen Kropping Kiwi" Heerdegen)
  Microwaves - No Good! (Michael D. Galloway)
  RE: Gott Cooler Mash Tuns (Art McGregor)
  re: Recirculation and Baroque Worries... (usfmchql)
  carboy covers (LeRoy S. Strohl)
  Free Advertising on the HBD (Steven W. Schultz )
  chipped pot / suds grain table (Jay Weissler)
  Re: The Robot (harry)
  Is My Beer Ruined? (Norman Pyle)
  Oatmeal usage (MYETTE)
  Warning! E-mail virus? (harry)
  El cheapo carboy covers (Richard B. Webb)
  First Decoction/Budmillcoors stench? (Jeff Stampes)



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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Thu, 27 Apr 95 13:16:00 PDT
From: Ray Robert <rayr at bah.com>
Subject: Kegging and bottling


I have a question(s) to pose to the brew masses:

I am getting ready to keg for the first time and had a question about 
kegging and bottling.  I would like to keep a few bottles around for 
friends, parties etc. but I want to keg the majority of the beer.  My 
question is this:

Is it better to prime the entire batch for the keg, carbonate and then fill 
the bottles using a counterpressure bottle filler or to prime the keg and 
bottles separately.  I figure I would put the sugar in the corny keg and 
then siphon in the beer and carbonate.  I would prime each bottle 
individually.

Another question I have is how much to prime (if any) if I were to force 
carbonate?  Also which is better force carbonation or natural (i.e. 
priming)?  I am in no great hurry so I was going to go with the natural 
process.  Inquiring minds want to know.

I hope I haven't used up my question allotment with this one post!

TIA
Robert Ray
rayr at bah.com

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Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 12:36:32 -0500
From: rlarsen at squeaky.free.org (Rich Larsen)
Subject: Homemade Enzymes/Banged up Enamel/Gout/Microwave use

>From: kevin at wheels.aar.com Writes :

>
>I ground 10 oz of malted barley, and tried to keep the temperature below
>the breakdown temp of beta-amylase (which begins to breakdown at 149F,
>and even more at higher temps).  I extracted it by heating it for 15 minutes
>at 140F (60C).  I obtained 20 oz (600ml) of "extract".  
>
>I had two stuck fermentations.  
>
>#1) 6 gallons stuck at 1.042  (stuck for over two weeks)
>#2) 1 gallon stuck at 1.012   (and should go down to 1.002).
>
>I added 5 oz (150ml) to #2, and 15 oz (450ml) to #1.  Both began fermenting 
>within 2 hours!  24 hours later, #1 was at 1.032, and #2 was at 1.004, and 
>both hadn't reached peak fermentation yet!  It has been several days now, and
>the fermentation has pretty much slowed to a snail's pace.  The SG's are
>now: #1 = 1.020, and #2 = 1.002.
>
>I considered batch #1 as a loss, and so the addition of unpasteurized
>enzyme extract was a risk - but I only had to gain by it!  BTW, #1's
>OG was 1.090 - I wanted STRONG beer :)

Please note, this post is not intended as a flame.

After using these procedures... you can consider both batches a wash.  Not 
only have you extracted the enzymes, but you also extracted HUGH amounts of 
lactobacillus bacteria and other unwanted organisms that live on the malted 
barley, just waiting for it to get wet.  These puppies are just waiting to 
spoil the beer.  Thats why commercial brewers grind and store grain away 
from the rest of the brewery.  I'll be VERY surprised if these beers don't 
become infected.

*******
>From: "Troy Howard"  <troy at oculus.jsei.ucla.edu> writes :
>
>While washing my 33 qt. enamel-on-steel boiling kettle after my last batch, 
>it slipped from my hands and bounced off the tub.  Now there is a (~1/2 inch 
>diameter) area where the enamel spallated from the steel.  
>
>Does anyone know of an effective method for repairing this damage?
>
>Any comments on what that small area of raw steel will do to my wort/beer
>the next time I brew?

I've been using EOS pots since day one.  I'm on my third pot now, the first 
was a 28 qt the second and third 33 qts.  I still use all three in spite of 
a couple of dings.  The old 33 qt is missing a handle and is considerable 
chipped on the inside where the handle was.  My main pot also has a chip on 
the inside bottom edge.  There is some metal exposed in all of these pots, 
but I have not experienced any problem with the metalic off flavor excessive 
iron is supposed to cause.

My next move is to Sanke kegs.

*******

Someone wrote a a while back that you can't catch gout from over indulgence 
and that it is genetic.  I suppose that may be true, but as a gout sufferer 
(I've had one attack and several warnings) I know you can agrivate it by 
over doing red meats and alcohol.  These and other foods increase the amount 
of uric acid in the blood stream, thus increasing the chance of the crystals 
forming.

BTW If you've never had a gout attack... you don't know pain.

*******

>From: Robert Parker <parker at mote.ME.Berkeley.EDU> Asks :
>
>Irwin Gelman talks about microwaving his gelatin growth medium and 
>mentions that
>
>'Microwaving is ideal for sterilization as it kills microorganisms and
>even spores rapidly, without the side-effect of long-term heating'
>
>I'd love to hear some discussion of this idea.  Last batch I found myself
>in immediate need of a funnel, but my plastic one hadn't been sterilized
>and even had discolorations from previous use on it.  I threw it in the
>microwave for a few minutes and then used it.  Was I doing any good by
>microwaving?  If so, why not use this method to sterilize siphon tubing,
>yeast culture tubes, airlocks, ....?  How long of a microwave is
>necessary?  Any concern about running the microwave without any liquid in
>the oven?  This strikes me as an extremely convenient procedure if it
>works. 

I've posted about this before.  I've had nothing but good luck with the 
microwave.  I sanitize all my bottles with this method.  1/2 inch water in 
each, 16 bottles at a time on high for 8 minutes.

I also use the microwave to create culture media, yeast starter worts and 
sterile water for rinsing out the sediment of bottles to culture the yeast.  
So far, I've had no problems with anything growing besides the yeast I'm 
trying to culture.

Do watch out for super heating water though.  You can heat water up past the 
boint of boiling and it will remain in liquid state until you move it.  Then 
the water will "fold" on itself, create a nucleation point and just about 
explode out of the container.  The same thing will happen if you add 
anything to the water... like sugar, DME, gelatin, agar... etc

For a quick sanitization, rinse with hydrogen peroxide and leave a contact 
time of at least 5 minutes.  Provided you don't have any large chunky bits 
adhereing to the surface.  Also ware rubber gloves.  Repeated contact with 
H2O2 really rips up your skin.

=> Rich <rlarsen at squeaky.free.org>
________________________________________________________________________
Rich Larsen, Midlothian, IL.  Also on HomeBrew University (708) 705-7263
  Spice is the varity of life.
________________________________________________________________________


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Date: 27 Apr 1995 10:29:14 U
From: "Palmer.John" <palmer at ssdgwy.mdc.com>
Subject: Brass and Stainless

Doh! I knew there was a post I'd meant to respond to...

For the best summery I have written to date, see the Nov/Dec '94 issue of
Brewing Techniques for my article Brazing and Welding of Stainless Steel. There
is also an unedited copy (w/o figures) of it on my web page for those of who
dont have access to the magazine. See sig for Homepage info.

Some highpoints that Greg wondered about:
1. Brass and Stainless are not exactly galvanically compatible, but usage life
should be more than satisfactory because the actual wetting time (therefore
corrosion rate due to dissimilar metals in an electrolyte) is short.
2. Brass and Stainless can be successfully Brazed together using Silver Brazing
Rod. You need to be aware of the high temperature problems with Stainless and
not heat the steel too long while brazing. Try to keep it under 5 minutes.
3. You cant weld Brass to Stainless, only Braze and Solder. Solder works okay,
but getting uniform wetting can be a problem if you dont have the right flux.
Same goes for brazing really.
4. Consider using Bulkhead threaded fittings with rubber or teflon gaskets as
an alternative to permanently attaching the nipples to the keg. This is a good
design solution.
5. The only danger from using brass and brazing brass is the Lead and/or
Cadmium that can be present in different alloys. American Welding Society
specification 5.8, alloy BAg-5 is the recommended brazing alloy for sanitary
brazing of stainless steel. Its Pb and Cd free.

If any one has any questions relative to their design, drop me a note and I
will provide some more guidelines.
John J. Palmer - Metallurgist for MDA-SSD M&P 
johnj at primenet.com  Huntington Beach, California
Palmer House Brewery and Smithy - www.primenet.com/~johnj/


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Date: Thu, 27 Apr 95 12:49:19 -0700
From: Jason Meredith <jason.meredith at mccaw.com>
Subject: Questions on: yeast, areation, tubing, idophor

I have several questions that I would like to get input from fellow readers  
of the HBD.

Yeast Culturing:
I have read everything I can get my hands on (TNCJOHB, Zymurgy Yeast Issue,  
HBD, rec.crafts.brewing, yeast.faq from ftp.stanford.edu, The Brewer's  
Companion) and what I really want to know is what level of equipment and  
sterilization methods do you use.  Is it okay to use beer bottles, bottle  
caps, etc... or should I go for the lab equipment?  How about boiling  
bottles to sterilize?  Many methods reccommend pressure cookers.  How about  
stepping-up cultures?  Should I risk contamination to pitch a larger amount  
of yeast?  I would of course like to step the culture to pitch as much as  
possible but I don't want to risk contamination.

Re-Using Yeast:
I've heard that you can (if you are making similiar beers) areate cooled  
wort onto the dregs in the secondary, assuming you bottle and brew in the  
same session.  Is this advisable?  I've been told not to use the primary as  
your fresh wort will be sitting on a lot of trub as well as yeast.  Of  
course I understand if your first batch was bad due to yeast your next batch  
will suffer also.

Areating Wort:
What is the most effective way to areate wort that you have experienced,  
other than the fish tank air stone.  I have heard about the method of a  
piece of racking tube with holes in it.  Will this restrict the flow from my  
wort chiller?  I am using a 1/4" counter-flow (yea, I know, I should have  
use 3/8") chiller and I definitely don't want to slow down the flow.  Any  
other ideas?

High Temps and Vinyl Tubing:
Will high temp liquids extract off flavors from food grade vinyl tubing?   
Can I feel safe transferring boiling wort through vinyl tubing?

Idophor:
I've just switched from chlorine bleach to Idophor and I'm so very happy.   
I do have a question though.  Do I need to rinse after using an Idophor  
solution?  As my paranoid self, I have been rinsing with boiling water.  Is  
this necessary?  How about cleaning bottles?  I think I will continue with  
the overnight bleach solution soak for bottles to make sure all the residue  
is loosened for the rinse.

Thanks in advance,
Jason Meredith

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Date:          Thu, 27 Apr 1995 14:14:18 GMT+700
From: "Marc Hugentobler" <MARHUG at TELECOM.USU.EDU>
Subject:       Re: coyote??

Hey now,
That ol' rascally coyote dun went off'n got married, got a jog an a 
house all in a relatively short time.(And not nescessarily in that 
order) Last I heard he was workin' and pursuin' one of them there 
masters degrees. sooo... to make a long story short...I believe he's 
busy. Mind you, I haven't heard from him for about as long as the 
rest of ya, but that's the skinny. I've been meanin' to run down the 
road to try and find his new house, as well as rattle his cage....But 
I've been busy myself. I'll give him a holler and let him know your 
all thinkin' about him.
happy krausen,. 
Marc
:-):-):-):-):-):-):-)
Marhug at telecom.usu.edu

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Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 16:19:27 -0500 (EST)
From: I Gelman <igelman at smtplink.mssm.edu>
Subject: More on microwaving


Text item: Text_1

        To continue the discussion on the use of microwaving for 
     "semi-sterilizaiton":
     
        I have successfully used microwaving to sterilize all sorts of 
     plastics and glass fittings.  As a rule of thumb, those plastics which 
     are boil-proof (e.g.- polypropylene) can be safely microwaved, in 
     contrast to softer plastics, which might melt.  Certain membranes, 
     such as nitrocellulose --which are used in pre- and post-filters in 
     industrial beer and wine-making processes-- have low flash points, and 
     thus might likely catch fire in microwaves.  
     
        I typically wrap a plastic funnel or glass fitting in microwavable 
     Saran, and zapped it for 5 minutes.  If the Saran is not available (or 
     if you're doing things in such a hurry), it's okay to microwave the 
     funnel for 5 minutes, but just don't handle the "business end" 
     directly with your hands.  
     
        Cheers and happy zpping!!
     
     
     
     
     ******************************************
     Irwin H. Gelman, igelman at mstplink.mssm.edu
     ******************************************


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Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 16:29:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: barber eric stephen <barber_e at einstein.eng.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: Filters

 I have always had a problem removing the hot break, hop left 
overs, and whatever else might be suspended in my wort.  I
tried the whirlpool method coupled with a simple filtration 
device, steel scrub pad, with unsatisfactory results.  
I have also tried to run the wort through a regular collander
but this method seems to invite bacteria via air, hands, 
and who knows what else.  I am aware that filters can be 
bought, but like many homebrewers I am very proud of 
my ability to build high quality equipment at a fraction
of the cost of buying usually inferior products at the 
store.  Does anybody relate?  If so I would love to 
hear some ideas on an effective pre-ferm. filter. 

Eric
 

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Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 17:22:59 -0400
From: EricHale at aol.com
Subject: Growing Hops? / JustHops Phone#?

I'm sure this has discussed at great lengths.  But can anyone direct me to a
FAQ (or other appropriate information) for growing your own hops.  

Also, who's got Just Hops phone number.  I know it was in a recent HBD, but I
didn't save the number.  I figured I could just call 411. They didn't have a
listing in Mt. Zion IL.

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Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 11:58:49 -0400
From: "Glen R. Geisen" <glen at picard.al.wpafb.af.mil>
Subject: MiniKeg bombs

I have been *listening* to HBD for about two weeks now and as a beginning
brewer (three extract + grain batches, so far) - the threads have been
interesting.  Much of it is still over my head, but I'm learning - and having
fun.

About MiniKegs:  I was almost ready to buy when I started following the bomb
thread.  I am obviously attracted to the minikegs for their convienence of
bottling.  Are there any good experiences out there?  Is the pressure of the
mini-CO2 cartridge sufficient to add any carbination, in which case the priming
sugars could be be lessened or eliminated?  Or is there only sufficient CO2
pressure to pump?

The MiniKeg sounds like a good intermediate step for those of us that don't
have the room or $$ to go to a soda keg.  Are there any other, say novice,
options - or should we (I) stick with bottles?

- -- 
===
Glen R. Geisen 		Email: glen at picard.al.wpafb.af.mil
Sytronics, Inc.		Tele : +1 513-429-1466 x117

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Date: Thu, 27 Apr 95 15:10:55 PDT
From: ELQ1%Maint%HBPP at bangate.pge.com
Subject: Microwave Sanitation...

   Robert Parker brought up the subject of microwave sanitation, a subject 
  that is discussed every now and then, and on killing microganisms, I don't
  think so.. here's my experince.  We have all heard of the expolding frogs,
  mice, etc. Well the recent heavy rains on the Ca. north coast brought small
  ants into my kitchen, I had wrapped a burrito in paper towel and zapped in
  the microwave for two minutes, I opened the paper towel and here was two    
  ants doing what ants do, scurrying about in search of food, ants may not    
  contain enough moisture to be heated, and microrganisms are quite a bit
  smaller, my consensus, microwaves work good on burritos, but not ants.

  Ed Quier             ELQ1 at PGE.COM                     707-444-0718 wk.

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Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 16:48:47 -0600
From: bthorn at nmsu.edu (Brian L. Thorn)
Subject: fruit beers & artificial sweets

Mark Ruhe asks about putting raspberries in his wheat beer:

This question comes up periodically on the Digest and there are many 
opinions out there on the subject.  I strive to strike a balance between 
quality homebrew and outright laziness.  Given that philosophical bent, I 
have achieved excellent results with many batches of raspberry beer by 
adding  3-12 oz. bags of frozen berries straight into the secondary 
fermenter about 5-7 days before bottling. Of course, there is some risk of 
infection but I believe it is low due to the level of alcohol built up 
during primary fermentation and the cleaning/processing of the berries 
during packaging.  I was originally worried that the small amount of sugar 
added to the raspberries during processing (maybe you can find some without 
it) would produce undesirable attributes but this has not been the case.  At 
most, it may produce a slightly sweeter flavor due to the fact that sucrose 
is not easily broken down by yeast (this is not such a bad thing in a fruit 
beer).

Regarding the thread on the use of artificial sweeteners:
     From my perspective, one of the great things about homebrew is the lack 
of artificial or otherwise highly processed chemical shit in the product. 
It's sort of hypocritical since I occasionally drink Diet Coke, but I don't 
want any of that stuff in MY beer.
     To each his (or her) own.
**********************************
*Brian L. Thorn, Ph.D.           *
*New Mexico State University     *               "...but it's a dry heat."
*(505)646-2731, bthorn at nmsu.edu  *
**********************************


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Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 16:26:40 -0700
From: Mark Bellefeuille <mcb at mcdpxs.phx.mcd.mot.com>
Subject: full mash time

My personal best is four hours: but, not all on one day.
I measured everything the night before.
My wife lit my 170K burner under the pre-measured water 30mins before I got
off work.
I dumped the grains in and started timing at 6pm. 
1hr mash
1hr sparge
1hr boil
1hr to cool it, pitch, and clean up.
This was a weeknight; and, no I try not to do this kind of brew very often.
But in that case, I had just been told that the party had been scheduled
and that I had been 'volunteered' as the beer supplier.
It was a fine ale based on Miller's Ordinary Bitter.
I recommend Miller's book 'Brewing the Worlds Great Beers' (close i think)
to all beginners and aspiring all-grainers. He does a good job explaining
what to do, as well as what you want to happen...

later,
mark

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark C. Bellefeuille                mcb at phx.mcd.mot.com

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Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 22:17:42 -0400
From: JOHNMAJ at aol.com
Subject: Bunches of stuff

First just another data point on the green, brown glass thread. I had a
friend who used to repair the case gluing machinery at Rolling Rock. He was
talking to the brewmaster one day, and the brewmaster remarked that he
considers there beer skunked if it is exposed to 5 minutes of bright
sunlight, and had data from blind tastings to back this up.

Next someone says I should use a step up transformer to step up my 120v to
240v for use with my RIMS system. This will not  work for a variety of
reasons. First at 240v that 5500w heater element will try to draw almost 23
amps. Since you are steping up to twice the voltage, that means you would
have to draw almost 50 amps out of your 120v line. Also the heating chamber
that the heater is in only holds about a quart of wort. If you put 5500w of
heat in there you would very quickly scorch, and or boil your beer. To prove
this out, the first time we used our system, we accidently turned off our
pump without turning off our heat. In less than 5 seconds we had steam flying
out of the hoses, and a distinct burnt smell. Upon removing the heating
element, it was covered with black burnt caramels.
Also one thing to remember with a RIMS system is that you are heating the
liquid part of the mash. It is this part that contains all the enzymes in the
mash, that's why the first decoctions, in a decoction mash are the thick
third of the mash. If you take this thin part above 170, then you risk
deactivating your enzymes.

Next on the round Gott cooler thread. I say that if you have a stuck sparge,
the chances are that the thickness of you grain bed probably have little to
do with it. I remember reading somewhere that A-Bs grain beds are 6 to 8 feet
deep, and have personally seen a homemade lauter tun that had a 2 to 3 foot
grain bed. In my opinion the leading cause of stuck sparges would be improper
grinding of the grain. Not long ago we were making a stout, and decided to
get rid of some 1 LB bags of grain that were laying around. We put in 3
pounds of this grain into a 65 pound mash. As soon as we recirculated the
mash stuck like crazy. My advice is get your grain ground elsewhere, or put
your crushed grain into a grain bag, and shake out the powder.

On to all this talk of Private E-mail responses being just as big a part of
the HBD as posters. I my opinion I will post the following. Take it as a
flame if you want, although its not intended that way.
I have been receiving the HBD for 1 month now. This totals up to 1.5 Megs.
Since I have 300 megs free on my new 515 meg $215 drive, I calculate that I
can put 343 more months of the HBD on it without resorting to floppy disks.
My point being that I think that many other people would be interested in
hearing what you have to say, so why not post it. Disk space is cheap, and
getting cheaper, your extra bandwidth will not break the bank. 
By the way all these private E-mails, are teaching me squat, since I get
none. Also if you are doing something wrong, how would you know since the
only person receiving you E-mail obviously doesn't know, since he asked the
question? 

P.S. On the LB-FT, FT-LB thread. NO NOT THAT AGAIN, ANYTHIG BUT THAT, PLEASE
NO, AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 22:49:35 -0400
From: Kaltenbach at aol.com
Subject: UNYHA Contest Winners


             Upstate New York Homebrewers Association
        17th Annual Competition and 6th Empire State Open
                   Contest held April 22, 1995
                    Total No. of Entries:  208

- -------------------------------------------------------------------
                        COMPETITION WINNERS
- -------------------------------------------------------------------

British Ale                        Dark Lager                      
   1. Bob Marsh                       1. Todd & Wendy Colin        
   2. Jim Taylor                      2. Manny Holl                
   3. Dave Manley                     3. Dave Manley               
                                                                   
North American Ale                 Belgian                         
   1. Al Schichler                    1. Bruce Franconi            
   2. Frank Caico                     2. Chuck & Wendy Bryant      
   3. Frank Caico                     3. Kirk Frieh                
                                                                   
Brown Ale                          Mead                            
   1. Manny Holl                      1. John Grana                
   2. Lyn Howard                      2. David Wunder              
   3. Bruce Franconi                  3. Kirk Frieh                
                                                                   
Porter & Stout                     Looks Like "Saranac Pale Ale"   
   1. Bill Shakespeare                1. Charles Knickerbocker     
   2. Karen Miller                    2. Tom Thompson & Al Rickett 
   3. Russell Vacchetto               3. John Nelson               
                                                                   
Light Lager                        Specialty                       
   1. David Wunder & Frank Caico      1. Tom Thompson & Al Rickett 
   2. Manny Holl                      2. Andrew Jones              
   3. Robert Graser                   3. Jim Taylor                
                                                                   
Amber Lager                        Best of Show                    
   1. David Chapus                    1. David Wunder & Frank Caico
   2. David Chapus                    2. David Chapus              
   3. Craig Pinhey                    3. Tom Thompson & Al Rickett 


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Date: Thu, 27 Apr 95 22:49 EST
From: Tom Clifton <0002419419 at mcimail.com>
Subject: "denatured" gelatin & sprouting malt

- -- [ From: Tom Clifton * EMC.Ver #2.2 ] --

o  GELATIN

  I'm no food scientist, but every time I make Jello I always add it
  to boiing water, dump in ice cubes and the stuff always seems to set
  for me.  I would have to believe that I too have been taken by the
  urban myth of not boiling my Knox gelatin that works so well as a
  fining agent.

o SPROUTING MALT

  What's the possibility that the grains of "malt" that sprouted in
  the 100 grain example were abe to survive the malting and kilning
  process as they were part of the ungerminated grains that the
  maltster had.  I believe that germination numbers in the high 90%
  range are quoted for "quality" malt.
  
  If grain from the Pharoh's tomb can be sprouted after many centuries
  I bet that an unsprouted barley corn heated to 190 degrees has some
  kind of a chance of survival.

  Also - in the 100 grain test - did that grain by any chance make
  hazy beer?  If there is much unconverted starch in your wort you
  may well have problems down the line.

  WHAT A THEAD!!

Tom Clifton
St. Louis, MO


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Date: Fri, 28 Apr 95 14:04:06 EST
From: Aidan "Krazy Krausen Kropping Kiwi" Heerdegen <aidan at rschp2.anu.edu.au>
Subject: AOB Mirror site in Australia
Full-Name: Aidan "Krazy Krausen Kropping Kiwi" Heerdegen

Hello all (well the Aussie brewers more specifically)

I have agreed to set up a mirror site for the Association Of 
Brewers WWW pages.  

The URL is http://rschp2.anu.edu.au:8080/aidan/aob/aha.html

I know alot of their pages contain merchandise, and some of you 
might not like them, well I care not ..  I am just posting to 
inform Aussie brewers that they now have a quick connection 
available.  They do have some interesting material (style 
guidelines etc).  

Did I miss anything while I was booted off the digest???

Cheers

Aidan

e-mail: aidan at rschp2.anu.edu.au,


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Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 07:37:56 -0400
From: mgx at ornl.gov (Michael D. Galloway)
Subject: Microwaves - No Good!

I asked my wife (PhD, Cell Biology) to investigate the use of microwaves as a
sterilization/sanitation method. Both she and her Microbiologist colleague agree
that microwave ovens are inappropriate for sanitation. The microwaves have
little or no effect on mold/fungi spores and may have little effect on many
strains of bacteria.

michael galloway - oak ridge tennessee

>Date: 26 Apr 95 17:34:00 -0500
>From: korz at iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
>Subject: Microwave for sterilization/PureSeal bottlecaps
>
>Irwin writes:
>>Microwaving is ideal for
>>sterilization as it kills microorganisms and even spores rapidly,
>>without the side-effect of long-term heating...
>
>Are you absolutely sure?  I've read various things about microwaves
>and sanitation/sterilization, but none of them definitive.  Could
>someone else support or deny Irwin's claim?



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Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 08:37:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: Art McGregor <mcgregap at acq.osd.mil>
Subject: RE: Gott Cooler Mash Tuns

    I've used a 7 gal gott cooler for about 6 batches so far, which is same
diameter as the 10 gal gott.  My mashtun consists of the larger Phils Phalse
Bottom, connected by a 3" piece of 3/8 ID vinyl tubing to a 7-8" piece of 3/8
OD copper pipe (left over from making my immersion chiller), which fits into a
stopper (the size that fit into top of 12 oz bottles).  To get the stopper to
fit properly, you need to leave the rubber gasket in the gott after the spigot
is removed.                                                     | |     Gott
                                           Bottle Stopper       | | <---Cooler
Phil's Phalse Bottom                                      \  ___| |     Wall
    \                              Copper Tubing           \|   \__
     \   _____-------------_________________________________|______\_______
      \ |  ___ Vinyl Tubing_________________________________ ______ _______
      __| |__ -------------                                 |    __/
 ____/       \_______                                       |___/ |
/                    \_________                                 | |
     Phils Phalse Bottom       \__________________              | |
                                                  \             | |

    The gott spigot can be removed with pliers or adjustable wrench, but make
sure you hold the outside of the spigot to keep it from turning when you
loosen the plastic nut on the inside of the gott.
    I believe that any size Phil's Phase bottom will work, just place on
bottom of cooler and attach above pieces.  The dome shaped Phase Bottom will
keep grains out and provide enough space for hot liquor to collect, but not so
much that you have lots left behind at the end of the sparging.  Hope this
helps :^)

Hoppy Brewing
Art McGregor (mcgregap at ac.osd.mil) Northern Virginia, USA



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Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 08:51:55 EDT
From: usfmchql at ibmmail.com
Subject: re: Recirculation and Baroque Worries...                         


>>In HBD 1717, Will self ponders recirculation and dust-bunnies...

Until the pot is at room temperature, I would imagine that it creates an
up-draft above it preventing any dust to fall. Granted, this barrier would
become smaller and smaller as the wort's temperature decreases, but so will
the thermal contraction.

The only way to be totally secure is to resort to a counter-flow chiller of
some sort. But then, there are other sources of contamination...

On recirculating the wort: this would provide a more homogenous wort (assuming
the recirculation begins prior to draining the boiler); however, there are no
means to prevent gravity stratification in the fermenter. I have found this
to be of little concern with moderate gravity, full boils; and therefore think
it would be of little use. Particularly if a CF chiller is used. (My opinion.)

During the boil, recirculation (without aeration) may prevent caramelization
and reduce the need for stirring. Interesting thought!

Drink all you want - I'll brew more!
Best regards,
Patrick G. Babcock              Michigan Truck Plant PVT Office
usfmchql at ibmmail.com            38303 Michigan Avenue
(313)46-70842 (V) -70843 (F)    Wayne, MI 48184


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Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 8:57:33 EDT
From: LeRoy S. Strohl <lstrohl at s850.mwc.edu>
Subject: carboy covers

Two years ago my wife very thoughtfully made me a set of fitted carboy
covers (6.5 gal primary and 5 gal secondary) out of some navy blue terry
cloth towels. Referred to as "carboy cozies" because they are a bit like
tea pot cozies. She used a series of snaps for the closures. The opening
is also great for looking in to see the temperature reading on the
Fermtemp adhesive backed thermometer. In the summer I can set the whole
rig in a shallow pan of water to assist in evaporative cooling if the
temperatures in the cellar seem too warm.

- --

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Date:     Fri, 28 Apr 95 9:17:24 EDT
From: Steven W. Schultz <swschult at cbda9.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Free Advertising on the HBD

	Recently, I have noticed some obvious self-promotion on the HBD by
"Bill the Beer Man" whose moniker describes his business, includes his
phone number, and provides an e-mail address for getting one of his
catalogs.  I have been waiting patiently for some of the digest's
heavyweights to pitilessly flame this huckster to ashes.  I just KNEW
that some of our more effusive "poster-children" (e.g., CPT K) wouldn't
leave this thankless task for a lurker... but I was wrong. 
	I THOUGHT that the HBD was not intended to be used as a medium for
free advertising.  If it is, I'll immediately revert to "lurker" status. 

Steve Schultz
Aberdeen, Maryland

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child - miserable, as all
spoiled children are, unsatisfied, demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic
and useless.  Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."

        P.J. O'Rourke 
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------



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Date: Fri, 28 Apr 95 08:47:52 -0500
From: jay_weissler at il.us.swissbank.com (Jay Weissler)
Subject: chipped pot / suds grain table

Some manufacturers may use antimony, cadmium or lead to bond the  
enamel to the steel in an enamel pot. These may be exposed if the pot  
gets cracked or chipped. Check with the manufacturer about the pot's  
safety. 


I just downloaded (actually my buddy Ray did) a copy of suds. This  
software is very nicely done, but is missing in two areas from my  
perspective. The first may be easily remedied. Does anyone have a  
more complete grain maintenance table? I think that's its name... you  
know the table with the color, etc? I haven't decided if I care about  
the other problem (that my mash temp schedule isn't supported).

TIA
jayw

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Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 09:58:29 -0400
From: hbush at pppl.gov (harry)
Subject: Re: The Robot

        I understand the Robot is fueled by coriander. Can anyone verify
this? (Oh my God, I've probably lost beaucoup points for this post!).




Harry

 ..............................................

"If it bleeds, we can kill it!"- Arnold S.
 ..............................................



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Date: Fri, 28 Apr 95 8:32:30 MDT
From: Norman Pyle <npyle at hp7013.ecae.StorTek.COM>
Subject: Is My Beer Ruined?


          *** The Official HBD "Is My Beer Ruined?" FAQ ***


Q: The lid blew off my fermenter and coated the ceiling with wort.  Is my
   beer ruined?

A: The beer is not ruined, but the ceiling is, as is as your relationship
   with your wife, landlord, or parents (whoever owns the ceiling).


Q: My beer has been fermenting for a month and still bubbles every few
   seconds.  Is my beer ruined?

A: The Amazing Kreskin unsubscribed from the HBD so you'll have to taste it
   to find out.  Better yet, send it to me, postpaid, and I'll tell you.


Q: My beer has ropes in it, smells like vomit, and looks like it has evolved
   into an intelligent being.  Is my beer ruined?

A: Yes.


Q: I pitched my yeast while the wort was 211 degrees F.  Did I hurt my yeast?
   Is my beer ruined?

A: Your yeast was not hurt, but has subsequently run away from home due to
   your total lack of understanding of their problems.  Pitch some more
   yeast, and this time LISTEN to what they have to say.  Your beer may not
   be ruined.


Q: I forgot to add the _________  (PICK ONE)

   a)hops
   b)extract
   c)yeast
   d)water

   Is my beer ruined?

A: a)You have committed the 8th deadly sin, but it can be fixed.
   b)You didn't make beer, you made tea.
   c)Maybe.  Refer to 211 degree yeast above.
   d)No, but it will make good pancake syrup.

Hope this helps!  ;o)
Norm

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Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 10:36:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: MYETTE at delphi.com
Subject: Oatmeal usage

I have a recipe I want to try that calls for "Oatmeal", it of course doesn't
tell me what type or kind of Oatmeal.

So I'm asking if someone out there can tell me what type of oatmeal to use?
and what brand is good for brews

Myette at delphi.com

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Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 10:45:28 -0400
From: hbush at pppl.gov (harry)
Subject:  Warning! E-mail virus?

        I just received this message from our network folks. I'm not sure
of its validity, but am passing it along in an effort to ensure the
continued health of the HBD:


>     "There is a new computer virus that is being sent across the
>>>>Internet.
>>>>     If you receive an email message with the subject line "Good Times,"
>>>>     DO NOT read the message. DELETE it immediately.  Please read the
>>>>     messages
>>>>     below.
>>>>
>>>>     Some miscreant is sending email under the title "good times"
>>>>     nation-wide.  If you get anything like this, DON'T DOWNLOAD THE
>>>>FILE!
>>>>     It has a virus that rewrites your hard drive, obliterating
>>>>anything on
>>>>     it.  Please be careful and forward this mail to anyone you care
>>>>about.
>>>>
>>>>     Thought you might like to know...
>>>>
>>>>     The FCC released a warning last Wednesday concerning
>>>>     a matter of major importance to any regular user of the Internet.
>>>>     Apparently, a new computer virus has been engineered by a user of
>>>>     America Online that is unparalled in its destructive capability.
>>>>     Other, more well-known viruses such as Stoned, Airwolf, and
>>>>     Michaelangelo pale in comparison to the prospects of this newest
>>>>     creation by a warped mentality.
>>>>
>>>>     What makes this virus so terrifying, said the FCC, is the fact
>>>>that no
>>>>     program needs to be exchanged for a new computer to be infected.
>>>>It
>>>>     can be spread through the existing e-mail systems of the InterNet.
>>>>     Once a computer is infected, one of several things can happen.  If
>>>>the
>>>>     computer contains a hard drive, that will most likely be destroyed.
>>>>     If the program is not stopped, the computer's processor will be
>>>>placed
>>>>     in an nth-complexity infinite binary loop, which can severely
>>>>damage
>>>>     the processor if left running that way too long.  Unfortunately,
>>>>most
>>>>     novice computer users will not realize what is happening until it
>>>>is
>>>>     far too late.
>>>>
>>>>     Luckily, there is one sure means of detecting what is now known as
>>>>the
>>>>     "Good Times" virus.  It always travels to new computers the same
>>>>way
>>>>     in a test e-mail message with the subject line reading simply "Good
>>>>     Times."
>>>>
>>>>     Avoiding infection is easy once the file has been received - not
>>>>     reading it. The act of loading the file into the mail server's
>>>>ASCII
>>>>     buffer causes the "Good Times" mainline program to
>>>>     initialize and execute.  The program is highly intelligent - it
>>>>will
>>>>     send copies of itself to everyone whose e-mail address is
>>>>contained in
>>>>     a received-mail file or a sent-mail file, if it can find one.  It
>>>>will
>>>>     then trash the computer it is running on.
>>>>
>>>>     The bottom line here is - if you receive a file with the subject
>>>>line
>>>>     "Good Times," delete it immediately!  Do not read it!  Rest assured
>>>>     that whoever's name was on the "From:" line was surely struck by
>>>>the
>>>>     virus.
>>>>
>>>>     Warn your friends and local system users of this newest threat to
>>>>the
>>>>     InterNet!  It could save them a lot of time and money."
>>>>
>>>>     Please pass this on...especially to anyone you know that uses
>>>>"America
>>>>     Online" regularly.




Harry

 ..............................................

"If it bleeds, we can kill it!"- Arnold S.
 ..............................................



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Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 08:56:04 -0700
From: Richard B. Webb <rbw1271 at appenine.ca.boeing.com>
Subject: El cheapo carboy covers


The thread of what to use when covering carboys has risen again. We get
a lot of suggestions about black garbage bags, paper bags and what not.

I've been very happy using old T-shirts that are now too small for me
(Never trust a brewer with only one chin...) to cover up my precious
worts. This curious sight led my neice to ask why I was dressing up
my big bottles. Were they just big dolls without heads?

The different color shirts also help me to tell my batches apart. There's
nothing worse than losing track of which pils has which yeast in it...

Returning to lurking mode,
Rich Webb

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Date: Fri, 28 Apr 95 09:28:23 MDT
From: jeff at neocad.com (Jeff Stampes)
Subject: First Decoction/Budmillcoors stench?

** Caution: this post contains a brief, yet thorough description of my first
  Decoction mash.  I post this for the information of those who have not
  tried it, as well soliciting input from those who have done many of
  them.  If you could give a rat's ass about this, scroll away, and direct
  any flames to icare at dev.null
 
 I was off on the quest for a true weizen yesterday, so after having collected
 much input from the proverbial collective wisdom (thanks to all, especially
 Jim Busch) I headed off into the wonderful world of decoction.
 
 Grain bill was 8 lbs German Wheat malt and 5 lbs Pils 2-row.  A little high, 
 but I was preparing for a low extraction...just in case.  I mash in a 42 qt. 
 Coleman cooler, which I preheated with 5 gallons boiling water for 30 minutes.
 For starters, I doughed in with 7.25 qts 55F and 5.76 qts 190F water (190
 is my boiling point) to hit a starting temp of 105F.  After holding this for
 15-20 minutes, I added 4 qts boiling water to hit a 122F protein rest.  After
 30 minutes, I used a saucepan to ladle out 10 qts. of a relatively thick grist
 (calculations of dry and liquid volume showed this to be approx. 1/3 of the 
 mash).  I heated this to 152F and held for 20 minues before bringing it to a
 boil.  After boiling 20 minutes, I returned it to the mash, hoping to strike
 152-155F.  I came in low, so I simply pulled another 5 qt decoction, brought 
 that to a boil and returned it to the mash.  This time, it did stablize at 
 154F.  This wouldn't qualify as a 'true' double decoction, since I didn't 
 boil it for any length of time the second time, correct?
 
 Anyway, I held the 152-155F for another 45 minutes, and sparged with 5 gallons
 of 190F water. (I figure that if I start that high, it probably is down to 
 150F by the time the sparge is done....).  After a 90 minute boil with 1.5 oz 
 of 3.2 alpha Hallertau, I chilled and pitched my yeast.
  
 All in all, the day was a little longer than my usual step-infusion mashes, but
 turned out to be a lot easier than I had anticipated...maybe a triple decoction
 belgian is in my future?
 
 72 Hours after pitching, it went haywire on my.  I woke up in the middle of the
night to find that the 5 gallon batch was blowing out of the 6.5 gallon carboy
having already blown out the airlock.  I guess I have to add my testimony to
those who have noted #3068's violent fermentation nature!

One problem:  It's now settling down and I'm about to rack to secondary.  I
noted that initially it was developing a heavenly banana/clove aroma.  Now
however, it smells like cheap budmillcoors!  Any ideas what may have caused
this?  I will taste it when I transfer it, but I have never had this
happen before.  (Not that I;m 'worried'...but maybe a little concerned?)

 
 -- Jeff Stampes -- NeoCAD, Inc. -- Boulder, CO -- jeff at neocad.com    --
 -- Ultimate Frisbee...It's not just for dogs anymore.                --
 -- Any fool can make bread out of grain...God intended it for beer!  --

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1718, 04/29/95