FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Beer Storage (Ray Robert)
  Enzymes fix stuck batches & Home malting (kevin)
  Terminal gravity ("Ginger Wotring, Pharm/Phys")
  Boil time (Domenick Venezia)
  ads on HBD (Btalk)
  Re: Wort boiling question ("Stephen E. Hansen")
  AI Robot Reprogramming (Harold LaRoux)
  Brew Your Own magazine? (Jeff Stampes)
  Equipment swap (jim_robinson)
  New magazine ("John C. Schmitz")
  Cornie advertisement... (usfmchql)
  Christoffel Blond recipe (David Foulk)
  skunking/hop storage (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  Oak Cask Cond. summary recap (Troy Downing)
  Shop in Aurora, CO / 10 Gallon Cornelius Keg (ChipShabazian)
  Lemon Thyme? (Nikolaus Matheis)
  HBD Management... (DocsBrew)
  Gout, and treating the symptom. (DocsBrew)
  quick connects, optimal size for lauter tun screen holes (JEFF MYERS)
  Grain Mill Help (Robert Brown)
  Yeast Supplier (Don Put)
  Stainless Steel Airstones/"Bacteria Proof" Air filters (Jeff Hewit)
  filter your air ("Ginger Wotring, Pharm/Phys")
  Homebrew Info (Vic Smith)
  skunking of beer ("MICHAEL L. TEED")
  Murcury Poisoning (dsanderson)
  RE: Wascally Wabbits (Tim_Fields_at_Relay__Tech__Vienna)
  Evaporative cooling (Ken Jucks, ph # 617-496-7580)
  "Dropping" (spencer)
  Mash Schedules (Rob Reed)
  Yeast - Changing SG (Dion Hollenbeck)
  Re: Calculate feeling my skunky mouth? (Russell Mast)
  Iodine Test/Microwave Sanitation (Ben Rettig)
  Mouthfeel, chagrin (Russell Mast)



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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Thu, 04 May 95 10:19:00 PDT
From: Ray Robert <rayr at bah.com>
Subject: Beer Storage


Question for all you keggers out there:

How long can I keep beer in a corny keg at room temp (75-78F) before it 
develops off flavors.  The reason I ask is there is a company party in 
September for which I volunteered to provide samples as a beer tasting.  I 
was planning on kegging four cornies for the event, but I wanted to start 
soon so they could carbonate, mellow, etc, and maybe a little personal 
sampling also.  These would all be Ales because I cannot properly lager at 
this time.

Thanks
Robert Ray
rayr at bah.com

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Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 08:40:02 -0600 (MDT)
From: kevin at wheels.aar.com
Subject: Enzymes fix stuck batches & Home malting


About a week ago I posted about two "stuck" ferments I had, and how
I added a homemade enzyme extract from malted barley.  After taking
a risk of adding possibly unsterile extract (extracted at 60C/140F),
both batches again fermented rapidly.  One person suggested that both
batches would become infected, but I wanted to post a follow up on how
it did work.  

Batch #1:  (extract based)
OG 1.090, stuck at 1.043.
Enzyme extract added, and went down to 1.018.
It is still SLOWLY fermenting in the secondary.

Batch #2:  (all grain mashed)
OG 1.046, stuck at 1.012 (should have gotten down to 1.002).
Enzyme extract added, and went down to 1.000.
It cleared, and I bottled it.  Tastes Fine!  Passes my wife's stringent
taste test also :-)

Sidenote: Batch 2 was an experimental batch brewed entirely from home 
malted barley that was made from barley I bought from the feed store.  
The malting was simple and easy, and the malt produced is fine.  
In fact, the grain sizes were LARGER than malted barley from the brew
store.  How's that!  $0.40 per gallon :-)

I also ordered two enzymes: Clarase, and Diazyme ((tm) of Solvay Enzymes),
and they arrived yesterday.  They are made for brewing, and I plan on using
them as a regular addition to the ferment now, after seeing how they 
consistently help convert much of the unfermentables to fermentable sugars
for the yeast!    The Diazyme is made to produce very low carbohydrate/low SG
/"dry" beers - which is exactly what I need as a diabetic!

I also had two 2L jugs of some 1.012 raspberry ale, that was very sweet. I
am diabetic, and cannot drink such sweet ale, so I just left them sit and
gather dust.  After getting the enzymes,  I opened up the two jugs, and added
a squirt of enzyme to each jug, in the hope of lowering the SG to where there
is much less carbohydrates in it.  They both are fermenting again this morning,
without the need to re-pitch more yeast.  Hey - I can't drink them either, so
they're a waste, so I have nothing to lose, and two jugs of ale to gain if it
proves out :-)

Kevin

- -- 
Kevin Hass WB0DPN       ! 
                        !  PGP public key by request via email
kevin at wheels.aar.com    !

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Date: Thu, 04 May 1995 09:49:24 -0600 (CST)
From: "Ginger Wotring, Pharm/Phys" <WOTRING at SLUVCA.SLU.EDU>
Subject: Terminal gravity

Larry Bristol asked if final gravity relates to mouthfeel.

It certainly does, and if you think about it, everything makes sense.

   A low final gravity means that most of the stuff in the wort (sugars,
proteins, peptides) has been converted to alcohol, which has a density
close to water. Little body or mouthfeel. If you need to prove the point
to yourself, try a sample of a very high-proof liquor.  
   At the other end of the spectrum, a beer that finishes at 1.025 will 
have enough proteins and long-chain sugars remaining to affect the density
(gravity reading) and mouthfeel of the finished beer. We perceive these
larger molecules as fuller body. 

- --
Ginger Wotring, Pharmacology/Physiology
internet: wotring at sluvca.slu.edu


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Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 08:12:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: Domenick Venezia <venezia at zgi.com>
Subject: Boil time

A2J at CU.NIH.GOV (Andy Lake) asks:

>  1. A friend of my wifes brews his own beer and boils his
>     wort for only 15 minutes. Why boil for 60 - 90 minutes, if
>     15 will do. What are the benefits of a longer boil?

Many.  

Hop utilization: a 15 minute boil is NOT going to isomerize and extract
much alpha and beta acids.  You would need to use about 4 times as much
hops for a given bitterness.  Also, you are not going to be able to create
a very interesting hop schedule in only 15 minutes.  There could be no
early or mid hop additions, but only late additions.  This means you would
have a very hard time balancing hop bitterness, flavor, and aroma. 

Protein agglutination:  A 15 minute boil will not produce much of a hot
break, and consequently your beer could suffer greatly from haze problems.

DMS (Dimethyl sulfide): A 15 minute boil is not long enough to drive
off various sulfur containing organic compounds from your wort.  These
compounds lead to a "cooked corn" character in the beer.  See HBD #1709 
for Andy Walsh's description of these compounds (DMS, DMSO, SMM).  Also 
check the archives for other such threads.

Volume reduction: A 15 minute boil is not going to reduce your volume 
very much, so your sparge volumes will have to be quite small and this
will reduce your extraction efficiency.  I typically collect over 8 gallons
of wort for a 5 gallon batch.  This means about a 2 hour boil at volume
losses of about 1 gal/hour.

Household aroma: It requires much longer than 15 minutes to really 
get the whole house smelling like a brewery.  A 2 hour boil ensures that
the wonderful, incredible smell of boiling wort thoroughly permeates the 
walls and furniture.  Only a long boil will guarantee that your home
retains this aroma for a couple of days.

Speaking of advertisements ... what really bug me are those PC and Mac
mail programs that add advertising taglines.  Please complain to the 
developers!  Unite in fighting this growing scrouge!  Boycott the suckers!
Kill your television--it's watching YOU!  UFOs are monitoring my phone 
calls!  Ackk!

Oops ... off my medication ... overdo on that first morning Bloody Mary.

Domenick Venezia
ZymoGenetics, Inc.
Seattle, WA
venezia at zgi.com




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Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 11:42:20 -0400
From: Btalk at aol.com
Subject: ads on HBD

In a recent gripe about advertisements for commercial operations and
non-homebrewing related stuff being included in email addresses, one of the
more common ones was left off the list...
What about educational institutions?  ;)
Regards,
Bob Talkiewicz, Binghamton, NY <btalk at aol.com>

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Date: Thu, 04 May 1995 08:52:52 -0700
From: "Stephen E. Hansen" <hansen at hops.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: Wort boiling question 

In HBD 1722, Andy Lake (a2j at cu.nih.gov) writes:
> Question of the day:
> 
>   1. A friend of my wifes brews his own beer and boils his
>      wort for only 15 minutes. Why boil for 60 - 90 minutes, if
>      15 will do. What are the benefits of a longer boil?
> 
> Thanks for your help and patience with my neophyte questions !

If you are an extract brewer and using pre-hopped extract, then 15
minutes are probably all that is necessary.  Most brewers, even those
not using grain, quickly graduate to adding their own hops to the wort.
In this case, you need a longer, vigorous boil in order to fully
isomerize the hop oils.  If they are not isomerized then they are not
soluble in water and won't add the bitterness you're after.  Full grain
and extract+grain adjunct brewers will also need the longer boil times
to coagulate some of the proteins and other unwanted thingules (that's
a technical term) in what's generally called the "hot break".

Stephen Hansen
homebrewer, archivist

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
 Stephen E. Hansen - hansen at Netserver.Stanford.EDU | The church is near,
 Computer Security Officer, Room 319, Sweet Hall   | but the road is icy.
 Stanford University, Stanford, CA 94305-3090      | The bar is far away,
 Phone: +1-415-723-1058   Fax: +1-415-725-1548     | but I will walk carefully.
 WWW & PGP: http://www.stanford.edu/~hansen        |     -- Russian Proverb
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=


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Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 11:02:54 -0500
From: breworks at appsmiths.com (Harold LaRoux)
Subject: AI Robot Reprogramming

After careful <malt> consideration of all of the suggestions regarding the
function of the AI Robot for determining each <yeast> subscriber's DWR, the
following refinements have been <hops> implemented in order to arive at the
new Digest Worthiness Index (DWI):

1. In order to take into account any contributions via <mash pH> private
e-mail, the Robot will now utilize a feed from the <barley> NSA whereby all
subscribers private e-mail will be <gypsum> monitored for HBD, beer, or
brewing related content. Any attempt to <kegging> fool the Robot with
unrelated keywords will almost certainly result in a lower <unmalted wheat> DWI.

2. The Robot will also monitor which types of posts you spend the <disolved
O2> most time reading. For instance, if you skim over an article talking
about wort aeration, but spend <munich malt> any time at all reading a poor
attempt at humor at the expense of the Robot, your DWI will suffer as a result.

3. A separate <pale ale> calculation will be randomly performed on any
suspicious looking communications to compute <grain mill> the Brewing Angst
Component (BAC) which is a measure of how much worrying you are doing about
your beer. Any post <TNCJHB> caught with a BAC above the allowable threshold
(currently a BAC of .10% in most areas) will cause <pitching rate> a loss of
subscription privileges for a period not to exceed one (1) year.

It is the intent that these changes <lactic infection> will result in a
kinder, gentler, unsubscribe engine so that only the truly unworthy will get
booted in the future.

Any future comments or criticisms should be directed to:
Robot at its.just.a.joke.com.

Thanks for your patience - The AI Robot team.


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Date: Thu, 4 May 95 10:25:09 MDT
From: jeff at neocad.com (Jeff Stampes)
Subject: Brew Your Own magazine?


Just received a bulk mailing from Brew Your Own...a new homebrew
rag.  Anyone know anything aboutt his publication?

obc...My #3068 is still bubbling away a week later, after a massive
fermentation explosion...what IS it with this yeast?

- -- Jeff Stampes -- NeoCAD, Inc. -- Boulder, CO -- jeff at neocad.com    --
- -- Ultimate Frisbee...It's not just for dogs anymore.                -- 
- -- Any fool can make bread out of grain...God intended it for beer!  --

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Date: Thu, 04 May 95 09:22:59 PST
From: jim_robinson at ccmailsmtp.ast.com
Subject: Equipment swap

OK, I know this is probably a wacky idea, but it won't be the 
first time.  Like many home brewers, I've evolved from the basic 
"kit" through the first stove top mash into the 10 gallon mega 
brew.  Along the way I have collected a bunch of equipment that I 
have since grown out of.  I'm sure that there are others out 
there that have equipment that is collecting dust. 

At the risk of offending the Homebrew supply store owners on the 
net, is there a way of having a used equipment list?  It could 
also serve as a forum for people looking for a specific item.  I 
surely don't want to see the HBD clogged with ads, but how about 
once a month or year or something like that?  Maybe a separate 
list in the archives?  I know that there is probably a zillion 
reasons why this won't work, which I will hear about very soon. 

Jim Robinson


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Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 13:49:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: "John C. Schmitz" <schmitjc at musc.edu>
Subject: New magazine

I just received an advertisement for a new beer magazine. It's called 
"Brew Your Own"( Carl Landau - publisher).  Has anyone heard of this yet?

John Schmitz

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Date: Thu, 04 May 1995 13:51:35 EDT
From: usfmchql at ibmmail.com
Subject: Cornie advertisement...                                          

                                                                               
>> In HBD #1722, Mr. Henry B. Banks advertises his cornies for sale...         
                                                                               
A few months back, I encountered the 'advertisement' on Prodigy as discussed   
in Mr. Banks note (of course, his name was Doyle Banks back then. Hmmm...). A  
casual inquiry yielded up two 3 gal ball-lock kegs with which I am             
ecstatically pleased, and whose method of acquisition was promptly reported    
through _private_ e-mail to several of my internet friends; particularly on    
AOL. Anyway, even with the fluctuating name, I can vouch for Mr. X Banks'      
integrity if anyone is thinking of buying a few.                               
                                                                               
That said...                                                                   
                                                                               
 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-  
  Thermal barrier. Temperature increase imminent. Proceed at your own risk.    
 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-  
                                                                               
That note was more blatant than the advertisements that have been being        
screamed about in the current 'commercials' thread. Shame on you! Haven't you  
been listening (reading)?!? Whether a private individual or corporate, that is 
NOT the purpose for the HBD. I have absolutely no qualms with your posting on  
*P* as you pay to maintain your membership there. Any rules they may have      
regarding advertisements is buffered by the price you pay for their service.   
The HBD is a FREE service for discussion of homebrewing topics; not for you to 
peddle your wares.                                                             
                                                                               
 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-  
            End thermal barrier. Temperature returned to normal.               
 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-  
                                                                               
How convenient that it should *pop* up now ;-)                                 
                                                                               
*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*  
                                                                               
Again, desperation post. Please reply to pbabcock at oeonline.com if you feel it  
necessary. Incoming seems to be working fine. The outbound is the problem...   
                                                                               
*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*  
                                                                               
'Drink all you want - I'll brew more!'                                         
                                                                               
Best regards,                                                                  
Patrick G. Babcock              Michigan Truck Plant PVT Office                
usfmchql at ibmmail.com            38303 Michigan Avenue                          
(313)46-70842 (V) -70843 (F)    Wayne, MI 48184                                
                                                                               

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Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 12:00:18 -0600
From: dfoulk at gsvms2.cc.gasou.edu (David Foulk)
Subject: Christoffel Blond recipe

Recently a friend of mine had a bottle of Christoffel Blond form "Roerland"? 
Holland.  He simply won't be quiet about what a perfect beer this is and is 
bugging me to find a recipe for a try at homebrewing it.  I have searched 
the Cat's Meow for this brew but have come up empty.  Does anyone know 
anything about this beer and or have a recipe for it.  If it is really as 
good as he says I would like to have a go at it.  Any recipes or information 
would be appreciated.  E-mail would be fine and if anything of interest or 
different recipes are sent I will make them available on request.  


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Date: 4 May 95 14:55:00 -0500
From: korz at iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: skunking/hop storage

Bill writes:
>I followed the discussions on skunking in HBD in the last several months, but
>seemed to miss whether skunking is a cumulative or a binary effect.  For
>example if 10 minutes of sunlight will skunk beer is this 10 minutes
>cumulative sunlight? or any exposure exceeding 10 minutes?

About five or six years ago, I read in HBD that storing beer in the dark
at 50F will reverse the effects of light on the hop components in beer
and reduce the skunkiness.  I tested this theory on a sixpack of Newcastle
Brown Ale and sure enough, it worked.  Therefore, my *guess* is that the
process by which beer gets skunky (the production of mercaptans from hop
components) appears to be reversable.  If this is true, then I believe
that if the beer was exposed to sunlight/fluorescent light for 1 minute
and then stored in the dark at 50F for a week and then exposed again for
1 minute... the levels of mercaptans would not reach our sensory thresholds.
Whether storage at 35F or 65F reverses the reaction, I don't know, bug if
indeed it doesn't, then I would say yes, the effects would be cumulative.

***
Tom writes:
>I am thinking about lining the bottom of my whole hop storage jars with 
>oxygen absorbing bottle caps.  This should significantly improve their 
>shelf life.

I see a number of problems here:

1. the plastic in those oxygen absorbing caps is activated by moisture, so
you would have to ensure that the humidity in the storage jar would have
to be high enough (sorry, don't know what that is -- if I do ever find the
phone number of that developer, I'll try to remember to ask) to start the
absorbtion (and this level of humidity might be more detremental to the
hops than the oxygen),

2. there's only so much oxygen that the caps can absorb, so you would have
to keep replacing them, and

3. it would be much simpler to just purge the container with CO2 or nitrogen
before closing (I've done this with oxygen-barrier bags and have opened up
two-year-old hop packages in which the hops smelled as fresh as the day I
bought them); you can use kegging CO2 or dry ice... heck, you can even fill
a baloon with the CO2 evolving from a bottle of beer!

Al.

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Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 16:06:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: downing at robocop.NYU.EDU (Troy Downing)
Subject: Oak Cask Cond. summary recap

For anyone interested, I put the responses that I received regarding
oak cask conditioning into HTML format. They can be perused at:

	http://found.cs.nyu.edu/downing/oak_casks.html

 -Troy

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
       Troy Downing, Research Scientist        (Voice) (212) 998-3208   
       New York University                     (FAX)   (212) 995-4122     
       Media Research Lab                                               
       715-719 Broadway, Rm 1214                      downing at nyu.edu
       New York, NY 10003-1866        http://found.cs.nyu.edu/downing 

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Date: Thu, 04 May 95 13:08:00 PDT
From: ChipShabazian <ChipS at 800sw.com>
Subject: Shop in Aurora, CO / 10 Gallon Cornelius Keg


While at my local supply shop today, I ran into someone with a 10 Gallon 
Cornelius keg!  He said he picked it up at a homebrew shop in Aurora, CO. 
 Does anyone know the name and phone number of this shop, or another place 
where I might find a 10 gallon keg?

Private E-Mail is fine, if anyone else is interested, let me know and I will 
forward you whatever I find out, or post if there is a lot of demand.

TIA,

Chip Shabazian
chips at 800sw.com

now let's see if I can sneak this past the AI 'bot ;~)

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Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 13:36:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: Nikolaus Matheis <psu04289 at odin.cc.pdx.edu>
Subject: Lemon Thyme?

I've been following the thread about lemon grass for Witbier, which I 
want to try.  Last night I saw an herb called Lemon Thyme at my grocery 
store.  This herb had a wonderful citrusy(lemony), floral, perfumy 
aroma.  After smelling this, I thought to myself, "Hmm, I wonder if this 
could also be used in a Witbier?"  The citrusy aroma seemed appropriate.  
The floral scent seemed a good complement to coriander.  And the perfumy 
scent was just plain nice.  Accordingly, I purchased this plant with 
grand visions of Lemon Thyme Witbier.  I have yet to try it and was 
wondering if anyone oput there, being fine Epicurists, Had any experience 
with this herb, not necessarily just in beer but maybe in cooking.  One 
of the suggestions on the plant was to snip and crush the leaves to make 
tea, so it does not seem too much to extend its uses to beer.  Any 
feedback will be appreciated, public or private.

				 Belgian Nik
                                    "Spice is the variety of beer." 
		


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Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 17:17:01 -0400
From: DocsBrew at aol.com
Subject: HBD Management...

I've developed a technique for managing my hbd files, but I have a feeling
there must be a better way!  How do YOU do it?  
I download the files using aol "flash sessions," and then I cut and paste 'em
into "Write," and then I go thru and delete the amazingly abundant extra
spaces, returns, and garbage (as well as any articles that particularly don't
interest me, i.e., "Good Times"), and then, if I want to, I print it out (15+
pages).  Is there a better way?  Am I missing something?  Do YOU print it out
each day?  

Also, my two pesos on the advertising issue:  I really don't mind hearing
about the clever things others come up with - even if they have a profit in
mind.  We are, after all, capitalists.  OF COURSE blatant ads are not
welcome!  As for the idea that MCI & HP & Others are ads - geez!  Judge Ito
has an IBM and that's an ad, too, but gimmee a break re: PJO'Rourke - whassama
tta - does the truth hurt?????

Private e-mail flames to BClinton at WhiteHouse.com...



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Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 17:17:23 -0400
From: DocsBrew at aol.com
Subject: Gout, and treating the symptom.

Regarding the problem with gout....the key seems to be to learn how to make
the kidneys clear uric acid better.  Its much like a river that has a dam
built in front of it.  The river represents the uric acid, and the dam
represents the deficiency of the essential components for repair.  If the
essential components are available, the river continues to flow.  If the dam
gets set, the river no longer flows and a lake is formed.  BLOW THE DAM, and
watch the uric acid reach its proper functional level.
Remember that if you just treat a symptom, it's much like having a six-pack
of Keystone Light in your fridge - would it be better to cover it with a
paper bag, or to get rid of it all together?!?!  Eliminate the problem!!  
Doc.

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Date: Thu, 04 May 1995 15:34:48 -0600
From: JEFF MYERS <JMYERS at oss.oceaneering.com>
Subject:  quick connects, optimal size for lauter tun screen holes

A few HBD's back Teddy Winstead asked about quick connects (QDs)
for his RIMS setup.  A company called Colder Products Corp (CPC)
makes a bunch of them, many of which are good to boiling temps.  We
use a lot of them in our life support systems at work.  I (and a couple of
pub and micro's I've visited) also use smaller ones for QDs on CO2
systems.  One source is Genoa Corp 1-800-444-2367, also local plastic
tubing / plumbing companies may have them.  Sorry for the commercial
content, but I've never seen CPC mentioned here and they make some
useful products.

I'm finally building my 3 vessel all grain system, and have a question I've
haven't seen answered in a few years of lurking.  I want to use a false
bottom in the mash/lauter tun so I can do direct heat application for temp
steps.  Does anybody know what the best hole size / spacing / %open
space is for the perforated metal ?  Or is a screen type better (what
size screen) ?  Or, as a way out alternative, anyone know the design
specifics for "v-grove" type like commercial systems use ?  (I'm buying a
TIG welding setup with some friends.)  E-mail is fine and I will
summarize to the digest.

TIA  --  Jeff Myers,    Houston TX
jmyers at oss.oceaneering.com  --or--  myers at ctsd2.jsc.nasa.gov



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Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 18:55:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: Robert Brown <rbrown00 at uoguelph.ca>
Subject: Grain Mill Help

Hi all,

Could use your help regarding grain mills.  The local homebrew shops 
don't do the all grain thing.  Actually one shop has a Corona and Pale 
malt that is as old as the hills.  The malt is atleast 2 years old and 
just went up in price 50% as if malt was a long term investment.  As an 
up and coming all grain brewer I needed an alternate grain source.

Well I found two ways of acquiring fresh whole grain for about 1/3 the 
price without having to stray to far from home.  Now that I can get the 
grain I need to crush it, so:

What grain mills are there available.  What do they cost, which is the 
best quality, and what is the best source for me to acquire one.

Alternatively can I make one myself.  I was thinking of rollers of either 
metal (SS) or concrete poured around a roller mechanism.  For simplicity 
I was planning a crank handle/motor hookup directly to the spindle of one 
roller.  The second roller would be driven by the grain throughput.  What 
diameter and length are still under consideration.  I believe the rollers
 would have to be grooved/rough to pull the grain through with small 
diameter rollers.  I would also make the non-driven roller adjustable 
along a track/groove adjusted with a simple screw mechanism. 

Information on commercial sources/opinions on pre-made mills would be 
appreciated.  Due to the lack of wallet bulk any one with 
ideas/plans/opinions on making one is urged to put in there $0.02 or 
supply the million dollar solution.  

Brewing beer or making brewing equipement I'm not sure what my 
hobby/obsession is really about.

	Beers to you, TIA           Rob

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Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 17:42:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: Don Put <dput at cello.gina.calstate.edu>
Subject: Yeast Supplier


Hello all,

Just a quick note to give a "two thumbs up" for a company I've recently
started doing business with.  It's called "Aeonbrau" and they sell
yeast cultures.  They have over 40 strains available, along with numerous
other "specialty" strains of yeast and bacteria  The service was prompt and 
the product was very viable.  You can contact them before May 15 at:

921 Bill Smith Road
Cookeville, TN  38501
(615) 372-8511

The owner, Brian A. Nummer (PdD in microbiology), is in the process of 
moving and opening a brewpub in Athens, GA; however, he still intends to 
sell yeast part-time.  The brochure states that he will be suspending yeast 
sales for the month of May to faciliate the move and the setup of a new lab.  
If you've into pure strains, and making the necessary starters, I suggest 
you at least get his catalog and see what's available.  The new address will 
be:

256 Cherokee Ridge
Athens, GA  30606
(no phone number yet)

Disclaimer:  I have nothing to do with Aeonbrau other than being a satisfied
             customer.  

don  (dput at cello.gina.calstate.edu)


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Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 22:55:08 -0400
From: jhewit at freenet.vcu.edu (Jeff Hewit)
Subject: Stainless Steel Airstones/"Bacteria Proof" Air filters



The BrewTek Wort Aeration Kit (available from Brewers Resource,
1-800-827-3983) includes a stainless steel airstone, and a
"bacteria proof" in-line air filter.  The full kit, including
pump, sells for about $27.  Cost without the pump is $20.  The
airstone and tubing have a larger diameter than standard
aquarium hose, but the kit comes with a short section that fits
a standard aquarium pump and connects to the filter, which then
connects to the main tube with airstone.  The filter is a
"syringe" filter - I have no idea what the intended use is.  I
understand that replacements (which are available from BR) can
be found more cheaply at drug stores, but I have no first hand
experience of this.  I have used this set up for my last three
batches, aerating my wort for about 30 min before pitching the
yeast, and for another 5-10 min after pitching.  The
fermentations started quicker, and were more vigorous than for
my previous batches.  The final product also tastes a bit
drier, which would indicate more complete fermentation of the
sugars in the wort.  I am pleased with this product, and
recommend it.  Naturally, I have no connection with BrewTek or
with Brewers Resource - I am just a happy customer.

- --
Jeff Hewit
******************************************************************************
Eat a live toad first thing in the morning and nothing worse
will happen to you the rest of the day.

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Date: Thu, 04 May 1995 23:15:13 -0600 (CST)
From: "Ginger Wotring, Pharm/Phys" <WOTRING at SLUVCA.SLU.EDU>
Subject: filter your air

                    
Chris Geden asks if aeration air could be a potential infection problem.

Do you have any friends in the biology department who work with 
cultured cells? Ask them for a 0.2 micron filter. These are commonly
used on incubators used for housing cell cultures. 0.45 microns
is considered the cutoff for life - sterile filtration is done at 0.2
microns to remove everything, yeast, bacteria, even viruses (as far as
we can tell). These filters usually come with little caps for the ends.
I uncap mine to hook up to the tubing that leads to my air pump. After 
aerating the beer, I cap it again. Since all I force through the tubing is
sterile air, I think that the "clean" side of the filter stays clean. 
If you are pitching a healthy starter, it probably doesn't matter, but 
if you can find one of these filters, it really doesn't add any time time or
energy to the process, and  it's one less thing to worry about ;) 


- --
Ginger Wotring, Pharmacology/Physiology
internet: wotring at sluvca.slu.edu


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Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 22:52:31 -0700
From: smivic at indirect.com (Vic Smith)
Subject: Homebrew Info

I found this through Gopher.  Is there a listing of contents of your quest?


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Date: Fri, 5 May 95 07:13:30 CDT
From: "MICHAEL L. TEED" <MS08653 at MSBG.med.ge.com>
Subject: skunking of beer

 .int homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com

 To add my .02 to the skunking thread, one of my batches of homebrew was in
 a carboy, about 3 days old, fermenting merrily on my workbench.I had
 removed my grocery bag cover and had the fluorescent lights on above it.
 I returned about 15 minutes later to smell the familiar aroma eminating from
 the airlock. Fortunately the beer was not noticeably skunked, but it did
 surprise me to see that skunking could really happen so quickly. I might
 guess that the CO2 scrubbed out the aroma quickly, at least quickly enough
 that I discovered what was happening rapidly. One possible variable in the
 equation is that in my fluorescent fixtures I use one plant grow light
 and one standard fluorescent ( highlights colors very well ) so the spectrum
 would be different than a normal fixture. YMMV.


 Mike Teed, ms08653 at msbg.med.ge.com


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Date: Fri, 05 May 95 09:28:48 EST
From: dsanderson at msgate.cv.com
Subject: Murcury Poisoning

Lee writes:

>A while back I broke a floating thermometer while measuring the temp of
>some water I was heating (cold outside + hot water = busted thermometer).
>The mercury flowed into the water in the kettle.  I immediately poured
>out the water, and the mercury exited the kettle in a nice clump.

>I continue to use this kettle (Volrath stainless 38qt) for all my
>brewing.  Do I risk mercury poisening?


Lee,

Yes, I'm afraid your Volrath 38qt stainless kettle is ruined. The mercury 
would have formed a molecular bond to the stainless steel surface which 
would leach back into your beer in lethal doses over time.

In fact, it is no longer safe for you to store it in your home and it 
would be an ecological disaster for you to dispose of it in an ordinary 
dump or land fill.

I strongly suggest you immediately send it(post paid) to a trained professional,
like myself for proper disposal.



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Date: Fri, 05 May 95 09:55:49 EST
From: Tim_Fields_at_Relay__Tech__Vienna at relay.com
Subject: RE: Wascally Wabbits

In HBD 1723, Jason Sloan asked if wascally wabbits eat hops.

They ate the tops off my chili plants last year, so I assume they will eat 
the tops off your hop plants.  I'd protect the plants.


Tim Fields
 Timf at relay.com
 SQL/DS Division of Relay Technology, Inc.
 Vienna, VA, USA



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Date: Fri, 5 May 1995 10:10:23 -0400
From: jucks at cfaft4.harvard.edu (Ken Jucks, ph # 617-496-7580)
Subject: Evaporative cooling

A couple of digests ago, someone mentioned that she/he sets the fermenter 
in a tray of H2O, covers the carboy with an old t-shirt such that the bottom 
of the shirt is in the H2O, and lets H2O absorb up the shirt to cool the
fermenter through evaporative cooling.

Well, I am currently fermenting an Alt which was transferred to the secondary.
I needed to cool it down about 10 more degrees than my ambient fermenting 
location allows.  So, I decided to try this evaporative cooling technique.

To make a short story short, IT WORKED!!!
My fermenter temperature dropped about 11 degrees in 12 hours, and the yeast 
still seems to be working just fine. (How does that Alt yeast manage to work 
at such cool temps?)

Whoever suggested this technique, THANKS!

Ken Jucks
jucks at cfa.harvard.edu



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Date: Fri, 5 May 95 10:31:54 EDT
From: spencer at med.umich.edu
Subject: "Dropping"

Time for me to chime in with my own "dropping" experience.  I made 10
gallons of Mild, split in two, pitched the same yeast in both, started
in a 7 gallon bucket.  After a couple days fermentation (when the
krauesen was quite cruddy looking on top), I "dropped" (racked, i.e.)
them into carboys.  One I was careful not to aerate, the other I let
fall from the end of the siphon hose to the bottom of the carboy, thus
introducing some air.

The unaerated batch is nice, but the aerated batch has a much more
"rounded" flavor, with a perceptible hint of diacetyl.  Since this is
what I was hoping for, I'm quite happy.

Also, the carboys ended up with essentially no "ring-around-the-collar" 
from the very clean krauesen that was produced by the rest of the
fermentation.

=Spencer Thomas in Ann Arbor, MI        (spencer at umich.edu)

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Date: Fri, 5 May 1995 09:31:21 -0400 (CDT)
From: Rob Reed <rhreed at icdc.delcoelect.com>
Subject: Mash Schedules



From: mdost3 at vms.cis.pitt.edu (Mike Dowd) writes:

> In the section on mashing, Mosher provides a graphic detailing steps
> involved in infusion mashing. <snip> I can see that he is trying to use the 
> different temperatures to
> produce fermentables and unfermentables, but I'm wondering how well it
> would actually work.  So, I was curious whether anyone has used this sort
> of mash schedule for heavy/dark ales (which are the types of ales I like to
> make), and if there is any benefit to using this procedure.  In addition,
> all three procedures take at least 2 1/2 hours, and I wondered if there is
> any benefit to mashing for that long.

I have Randy's book and it has some interesting information on brewing as well
as a plethora or charts, tags, and other graphical creations, but I have to
recommend the 40/60/70C (105/140/158F) mash schedule that George Fix described
in a post several months ago.  The mash can be completed in 1.5-2 hours.  I 
like the mash program for the following reasons:

o Instead of adjusting the temperature of the mash to control fermentability,
  the 140F and 158F mash times are manipulated.  After a standard 30 min.
  rest at 105F, the mash is boosted to 140F for 30 minutes (nominally), after
  which, the mash is again boosted to 158F for a 30 min. rest.
  
o This mash program has increased my yields over a one-step infusion.

o Once, you have performed several mashes with this technique, achieving
  the temperature boosts becomes more accurate.  I perform my 105F rest
  at a water/grist ratio of 0.75qts/lb. and boost to 140F with 0.5-0.7 qts.
  boiling (212F here) water.  I then perform a 35-40% decoction to 
  reach the 158F rest.
  
I know that many if not most grain brewers out there are looking for ways
to reduce their brewing time (not that time spent brewing isn't "quality"
time).  I wanted to pass along a tip.  If you fire your boiler while you
are sparging into it, you can save alot of time: I use a re-jetted Cajun
Cooker (0.040" orifice) and spend 30-45 min sparging.  I adjust input heat
so that I'm at a rolling boil at sparge completion.  I usually gather 2
gallons of sweet wort prior to firing the kettle.

I can complete my brew session in 4.5 hours (wort in carboy) unless there
are complications.  It helps to have F-16 power under the kettle 8{).    

Cheers,

Rob Reed

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Date: Fri, 5 May 95 07:30:23 PDT
From: hollen at megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck)
Subject: Yeast - Changing SG


I just collected some yeast from a bottle of Strong Belgian Ale and
cultured it up.  It is now happily burbling in my latest batch, a
Strong Belgian Ale, of course.  This yeast is extremely vigorous, has
that nice spicey, fruity profile wanted in this style, and since it
came from a 10.5% alcohol beer, should be very alcohol tolerant.  I
grew it up in a 1.070 wort to make sure it did not go into osmotic
shock when pitched into my 1.094 wort, and from the results of a 3"
krausen in my blowoff bucket after 12 hours, it had no shock.

This yeast seems to have a desirable flavor/aroma profile for a wheat
beer, but the wheat would be of a very much lower specific gravity.
Given that I would never expose the "mother culture" to low gravity to
ensure the strain retains its high gravity tolerance, how would you
expect it to perform in a gravity of from 1.035 to 1.045?  I would
expect to grow up my starter in a 1.040 wort to ease it on down to
lower gravity.

dion


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Date: Fri, 5 May 1995 10:03:12 -0500
From: Russell Mast <rmast at fnbc.com>
Subject: Re: Calculate feeling my skunky mouth?


> From spencer at goodman.itn.med.umich.edu 

> Russell Mast wrote about Calculate feeling my skunky mouth?: 
>  : I believe it's also in the Miller book that FG has nothing to do with 
>  : mouthfeel per se, and that it is strictly a function of protein content.  
> 
> Try this experiment: Take a glass of water (8 oz).  Take another glass
> of water and dissolve an ounce of sugar (about 2 tablespoons) it (SG
> 1.045, roughly).  Is there a difference in the mouthfeel?

Without actually doing it, I think there would be.  However, none of my 
finished beers have an SG of 1.045.  I say take this sugar-water, and ferment
it down to about 1.010 or 1.005 and then compare it to regular water.  (Or
water with yeast in it or something.)  NOW how is the mouthfeel?

Or just put enough sugar in for an SG of 1.010 and try it.  I don't deny 
that sugar contributes something to mouthfeel, I'm pretty sure it does, 
but, according to Miller (and my admittedly limited experience), protein
contributes more than sugar, at least in terms of the "heavyness" or
"fullness" of the mouthfeel.  I think that the perceived texture of beer is
not something completely captured on a single scale.  

 -R

ps.  Did I send you my FAX number for the small and tiny?

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Date: Fri, 5 May 95 10:21:22 EST
From: blrett at most.magec.com (Ben Rettig)
Subject:  Iodine Test/Microwave Sanitation

Iodine Test: I have been an all grain brewwer for some time now (about 10
batches). All grain is a time consuming process. I have always mashed my
grain for 75 minutes at the 154 degrees F level. Yeilds have always been
adaquate. I have seeen a few mashers comment "that conversion was complete
in 30 min. by the Iodine Test". Can someone help me out with the Iodine
test. Can anyone provide a full procedure for me to conduct my own Iodine
test. Are there any other tests for conversion?

Microwaves: I thought that microwave ovens heat things up based on the
principle of "resonant frequency of H20". Basically the oven generates
microwaves with a frequncy close to resonance tof the h20 molecule. This
resonance makes the water "vibrate faster" which increases its energy level
or heats it up. Food with alot of water in it or water itself heat up very
quickly. Items without water in them would not heat up very quickly or not
at all. The only way they may get hot is because the materials structure
would be similiar to waters.

Can any of the Physics Experts set this straigt?

Ben Rettig (blrett at pophost.magec.com)

Brew on McDuffs!!




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Date: Fri, 5 May 1995 10:56:12 -0500
From: Russell Mast <rmast at fnbc.com>
Subject: Mouthfeel, chagrin


>  --Contains  line(s) greater than 80 chars in length --

Oh for crying out loud just truncate it and send me a warning.
SHEESH.

> > From: spencer at med.umich.edu
> > 
> > >Russell Mast wrote about Re: Calculate feeling my skunky mouth?: 
> > > :  NOW how is the mouthfeel?
> > >
> > > But, as the joke goes, now we're only arguing about the price...
> > 
> > Blech.  Still, like I said, I think sugar contributes SOMETHING to the
> > mouthfeel, but I think that FG is less important than protein content.  Of
> > course, in most beers, there's a high correlation between the two, but 
> > residual sugar's contribution to mouthfeel is probably less than most people
> > think.  I may be wrong, but it's consistent with my experience and with 
> > Miller, who's no deity but seems more accurate than most brew manuals.  
> > 
> > -R
> > 
> > ps.  You know that I'm forwarding this dialogue to HBD, right?  It seems
> > pertinent enough.  I can cancel them if you'd like.  I do want to hear from
> > the experts on this one, though. (I haven't gotten a chance to read today's 
> > in full yet, so maybe they've already weighed in.)
> > 
> > pps.  Is it true that the term "Gedanken Experiment" really means "Thank you
> > experiment"?

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1724, 05/06/95